Dudes I don't want an unresposive browser interface to my media-player.
I want fancy treeview widgets and right-mouse button features.
Please, please, if you plan on writing another useless "php media player"-thingy, DON'T. Learn tk and create a nice cross platform perl, python or tcl app with a real gui.
And if you are the maintainer of one of these php thingies. Please consider upgrading to a native gui so your app gets a chance to become useful.
I made that term up (sorry, lack of english, I'm from germany).
Ofcourse you're right with u!=a.
With "graphician" I meant persons who professionally work with graphics software (preferably all day long) and:
have an idea what bugs them most about the UI of the software that they're using every day
have an idea what parts of the UI are good
are able to composite images that reflect their idea of a "perfect UI"
Ofcourse no single person will come up with the ultimate solution at once. But only comparing a number of proposals from different people should give the gimp-developers a lot of insight into the preferences of their users.
I found some comments, they don't convince me, though.
Seems like these people are in the minority (tabs made it into about any browser incl. mozilla after all) and most of their points seem to be irrelevant anyways.
Actually I wasn't able to dig up any valid point vs tabs except the one you already made - duplicating the virtual desktop functionality. Which seems to be a non-issue considering the improvements you get:
All tabs easily reachable from within browser gui, no irritating desktop switching necessary
No duplication of browser toolbars
Sane popup handling (open in tabs)
Per-tab right-click options
Cross platform UI consistency
Last but not least; it's an optional feature, you're not forced to use it. - Choice is good!
And, let's not forget what happens when software tries to avoid duplication of functionality like that at all cost: The Gimp. The common battery of gimp windows and panels literally screams for a central tabs-bar (beyond what some windows managers can offer) to manage the mess. For that insane amount of windows probably a tree-view would be even more appropiate than a flat list. Or just go the photoshop way and make it MDI.
User interfaces for humans are not about avoiding redundancy or blindly sticking to some UI framework/paradigm! It's about finding the right balance between redundancy, complexity and functionality that will provide the shortest possible path for most common tasks and the least "overhead" at that. Don't be afraid to to temporarily "break the rules" (read: make an exception) when that becomes necessary. Every app is different. Innovation and good, efficient interfaces don't happen only by following academic guidelines.
Oh, and one more thing: Your claim about the mozilla team introducing inconsistency to the linux desktop is void. If there was any consistency in todays "linux desktop" it would make sense. But since there is none...
No. When you talk about GUI design then it's all about the little things!
Anyone who has done image cropping aided by the dim effect in PS will agree that when you've used it once you won't want to go without it ever again.
Why does the gimp have to reinvent the wheel (new structure, new keyboard shortcuts, new everything) when the dominating, pre-existing product in the field is already considered "close to perfect" in terms of usability?
Photoshop has its own problems but last time I checked these were much less harassing than the gimps'. So why not make a copy of photoshop (that's enough work to keep a dozen codemonkeys busy for awhile already!) and then improve on the few problems that it still has?
That would be much easier than trying to list up all the things that need to be changed in todays gimp to make it a bit more usable.
I'd love to see mockups like those that were made for the new GTK File selector.
We need skilled graphicians who are willing (or paid?) to take the time to sketch up their dream-interface. Once there are a few proposals the most promising one would be chosen and a specification be written.
Disclaimer: Hey, I can tell you what to do but I can't do it myself!
I had to laugh as I read your post because I'm doing exactly the same.
And I noticed that you can even "chop off" the submenus and stick them on the screen as windows. So that way you don't have to go back every time you want to re-use a "nested" (deep down the menu-tree) function, at least during one session.
It seems wierd having to work that way and I have not yet found a way to make the gimp remember all my chopped off menu items! So I go through the same chopchop-procedure everytime I load the gimp to do something. Just as I go through the same "open palette this", "open toolbar that", "open cursor list this", "open layers view there", etc. actions every time.
If there was one big red switch labeled FREEZE NOW that I could hit and have the gimp UI stay exactly as I laid it out (think: screenshot). MAYBE then I could find a way to arrange everything in a way so that it becomes less of a pain to use for me. Unfornationally I haven't found that button, yet. If it exists please tell me about it.
*cough* PAIN*cough*ful *cough* UI *cough* from he*cough*ll.
I use gimp often when I don't want to wait/reboot for photoshop but every single time I do I find myself swearing and cursing at that clueless UI.
It feels as if their primary goal was to spread every bit of useful functionality over at least three different popup-dialogs each of which must be manually found and opened by the luser.
And I don't know of any project that'd be working to improve the situation. I mean, someone repl^H^H^H^Hadd a GUI to it and it will be SO useful!
But no, everybody's too busy adding software alpha blending to kde (hell yea we needed that!) or building yet another browser.
Hm. I wonder how constant flaming affects my karma.
Who the hell would want a transparent terminal anyways?
Why not just run xscreensaver demos on the terminal backdrop?
Color cycling would be a nice feature, too (helps concentration). Wobbling fonts could really aid to get work done while drunk. Also I'm sick of the general static behaviour and boring shape of my xterms. We have 3d acceleration, can we please get shape-changing terminals? I want mine to be mapped onto a sphere and bouncing around the screen please. And don't forget the bump mapping of the remaining desktop. Oh I didn't even start, yet! The crippled appearance and functionality of the cursor is pathetic, too. Can't you come up with something more sophisticated than a retarded blinkin' block? Someone's definately stuck in the 80s there. The cursor should generally change shape and bounce around like the rest of a well designed terminal window. For added productivity it definately needs to be able to leave the window, too. When will you guys fix these braindead APIs that lock the cursor up in a rectangular box? Can't you even imagine the possibilities of a bump mapped 3d cursor that gives you the power to type in creative circles (and down the z-axis, too) all over the screen? And why did backspace never get its cut of the so called "multimedia" (hohoho) revolution? God damnit, it doesn't even make noise! Next time you design a terminal emulator would you PLEASE at least get the basics straight and have an animated Ms Pacman to eat the letters on del/backspace? I mean c'mon, work's hard enough as it is. We don't need to see depressive geometrics all day long.
And WHY THE HELL, yes WHY THE HELL do we still have close, min and maximize buttons on the window borders? I mean, HELLO? Can you spell M-o-o-r-h-u-h-n?
Slashdot Mirror
Unless one of them has UPS.
In Soviet Russia the Obnoxious Debian Zealot is YOU!
No. He said it's partially illegal.
Dungeon Master.
Dudes I don't want an unresposive browser interface to my media-player.
I want fancy treeview widgets and right-mouse button features.
Please, please, if you plan on writing another useless "php media player"-thingy, DON'T. Learn tk and create a nice cross platform perl, python or tcl app with a real gui.
And if you are the maintainer of one of these php thingies. Please consider upgrading to a native gui so your app gets a chance to become useful.
Thanks.
Try to spell the man's name right at least, it's Trovalds, and he likes to be called Linus rather than his last name.
*cough*
maybe this helps
Does it support a custom editor (can I use vim)?
Ofcourse you're right with u!=a.
With "graphician" I meant persons who professionally work with graphics software (preferably all day long) and:
Ofcourse no single person will come up with the ultimate solution at once. But only comparing a number of proposals from different people should give the gimp-developers a lot of insight into the preferences of their users.
Seems like these people are in the minority (tabs made it into about any browser incl. mozilla after all) and most of their points seem to be irrelevant anyways.
Actually I wasn't able to dig up any valid point vs tabs except the one you already made - duplicating the virtual desktop functionality.
Which seems to be a non-issue considering the improvements you get:
Last but not least; it's an optional feature, you're not forced to use it. - Choice is good!
And, let's not forget what happens when software tries to avoid duplication of functionality like that at all cost: The Gimp.
The common battery of gimp windows and panels literally screams for a central tabs-bar (beyond what some windows managers can offer) to manage the mess. For that insane amount of windows probably a tree-view would be even more appropiate than a flat list. Or just go the photoshop way and make it MDI.
User interfaces for humans are not about avoiding redundancy or blindly sticking to some UI framework/paradigm! It's about finding the right balance between redundancy, complexity and functionality that will provide the shortest possible path for most common tasks and the least "overhead" at that. Don't be afraid to to temporarily "break the rules" (read: make an exception) when that becomes necessary. Every app is different. Innovation and good, efficient interfaces don't happen only by following academic guidelines.
Oh, and one more thing:
Your claim about the mozilla team introducing inconsistency to the linux desktop is void.
If there was any consistency in todays "linux desktop" it would make sense. But since there is none...
Please!
Torrent?
No. When you talk about GUI design then it's all about the little things!
Anyone who has done image cropping aided by the dim effect in PS will agree that when you've used it once you won't want to go without it ever again.
Why does the gimp have to reinvent the wheel (new structure, new keyboard shortcuts, new everything) when the dominating, pre-existing product in the field is already considered "close to perfect" in terms of usability?
Photoshop has its own problems but last time I checked these were much less harassing than the gimps'.
So why not make a copy of photoshop (that's enough work to keep a dozen codemonkeys busy for awhile already!) and then improve on the few problems that it still has?
That would be much easier than trying to list up all the things that need to be changed in todays gimp to make it a bit more usable.
discl: Just another rant on the gimp front...
I don't quite get your last point about mozilla.
I mean, last time I checked mozilla firebird does support tabs. The advantages are obvious.
Which leads to the question: Does Paul Oakenfold wear a wristwatch?
Yea, dansdata rocks (shameless plug)
It will probably only be visible when the user requested action was something like "Save as".
My CPU temp sensor reads 68C on average and up to 77C when 3d-gaming. (Athlon 1800xp)
The cpu is specified to have no problem with a core temperature up to 85C.
Do you guys who cool their CPUs down to 30C and below ever hear it sneeze?
Why do I even reply to you...
Go away, you don't exist!
I very much agree to that!
I'd love to see mockups like those that were made for the new GTK File selector.
We need skilled graphicians who are willing (or paid?) to take the time to sketch up their dream-interface. Once there are a few proposals the most promising one would be chosen and a specification be written.
Disclaimer: Hey, I can tell you what to do but I can't do it myself!
Haha, thank you very much!
I had to laugh as I read your post because I'm doing exactly the same.
And I noticed that you can even "chop off" the submenus and stick them on the screen as windows.
So that way you don't have to go back every time you want to re-use a "nested" (deep down the menu-tree) function, at least during one session.
It seems wierd having to work that way and I have not yet found a way to make the gimp remember all my chopped off menu items!
So I go through the same chopchop-procedure everytime I load the gimp to do something.
Just as I go through the same "open palette this", "open toolbar that", "open cursor list this", "open layers view there", etc. actions every time.
If there was one big red switch labeled FREEZE NOW that I could hit and have the gimp UI stay exactly as I laid it out (think: screenshot). MAYBE then I could find a way to arrange everything in a way so that it becomes less of a pain to use for me.
Unfornationally I haven't found that button, yet.
If it exists please tell me about it.
Just do what Dan did and add significant positive case pressure.
I've seen the antfarm casemod... Kitty litter casemod? Send pics!
*cough* PAIN*cough*ful *cough* UI *cough* from he*cough*ll.
I use gimp often when I don't want to wait/reboot for photoshop but every single time I do I find myself swearing and cursing at that clueless UI.
It feels as if their primary goal was to spread every bit of useful functionality over at least three different popup-dialogs each of which must be manually found and opened by the luser.
And I don't know of any project that'd be working to improve the situation.
I mean, someone repl^H^H^H^Hadd a GUI to it and it will be SO useful!
But no, everybody's too busy adding software alpha blending to kde (hell yea we needed that!) or building yet another browser.
Hm. I wonder how constant flaming affects my karma.
Who the hell would want a transparent terminal anyways?
Why not just run xscreensaver demos on the terminal backdrop?
Color cycling would be a nice feature, too (helps concentration).
Wobbling fonts could really aid to get work done while drunk.
Also I'm sick of the general static behaviour and boring shape of my xterms.
We have 3d acceleration, can we please get shape-changing terminals?
I want mine to be mapped onto a sphere and bouncing around the screen please.
And don't forget the bump mapping of the remaining desktop.
Oh I didn't even start, yet!
The crippled appearance and functionality of the cursor is pathetic, too. Can't you come up with something more sophisticated than a retarded blinkin' block?
Someone's definately stuck in the 80s there.
The cursor should generally change shape and bounce around like the rest of a well designed terminal window. For added productivity it definately needs to be able to leave the window, too. When will you guys fix these braindead APIs that lock the cursor up in a rectangular box?
Can't you even imagine the possibilities of a bump mapped 3d cursor that gives you the power to type in creative circles (and down the z-axis, too) all over the screen?
And why did backspace never get its cut of the so called "multimedia" (hohoho) revolution?
God damnit, it doesn't even make noise!
Next time you design a terminal emulator would you PLEASE at least get the basics straight and have an animated Ms Pacman to eat the letters on del/backspace?
I mean c'mon, work's hard enough as it is. We don't need to see depressive geometrics all day long.
And WHY THE HELL, yes WHY THE HELL do we still have close, min and maximize buttons on the window borders?
I mean, HELLO?
Can you spell M-o-o-r-h-u-h-n?
Ah this is all too much for me, mod me down..