I've never known who had invidual accounts for everyone who used the computer, even on XP, so that's why I said what I did in my last post. I guess it's good that people are using different accounts, though rather useless because, as you point out, they're all admins. Appearently Microsoft is finally fixing this with Vista, so that'll be better for dumb users still stuck with Windows.
Time to be bitchslapped back to reality. Linux is not ready for the masses just because you can use it.
It's a lot closer than you imagine. My friend uses Linux (Mepis, specifically) and I don't think she even knows what the command line is. And no, I didn't spend hours configuring it for her, she installed it herself and didn't need to do any configuring because it automatically recognized her hardware and came with mp3, DVD, etc support. My mom used my Linux box and is jealous because all the silly puzzle games she buys for $20 a piece are available for free with Ubuntu. I'd give her Linux, but her computer is used for telecommuting with her job, so I really can't.
Linux is great for home use and is getting better all the time. It's problem is that people don't know that. However, and more and more users get fed up with viruses and Windows and whatever, they will take the time to find out.
I don't like Windows and don't use it on my home computer, however, I have to call you out and let you know that Windows does have that kind of security. It's perfectly easy on XP to give Peggy Sue her own account and lock her out of Dad's stuff.
Now, if you were arguing that Peggy Sue would get less viruses and spyware on Linux because most distros don't default to root and any browser on Linux is much more secure than Windows' default, IE, then I would totally agree with you. But you're arguing that Linux will protect Dad from Peggy Sue, but if they use the same account on Windows they likely will on Linux, so Linux can't really protect him from her. She could delete the home folder just as easily as she could delete My Documents.
What about users who lose those disks? Several years ago my hard drive died and the technication left me with a new one - and I had no idea where my Windows disk was, let alone the driver disks. I managed to get a copy of Windows from a friend, but finding all the drivers for everything was a bitch. I wasn't even a newb either, I at least knew what drivers are and how to install them. What's Joe User or you mom going to say when you try to explain drivers to them?
After a successful Windows install, you have a screen with crappy resolution and crappy colors, no sound, no connection to the internet and a lot of work ahead of you fixing those problems, and then you get to install all your applications. After a successful Linux install, you have a fully working computer with most if not all of the programs you need.
Windows Defender doesn't automatically install. Most of the computers at my job are XP with automatical updates turned on and the only ones that have it are the ones I manually installed it to.
Of course, that's if the user has any idea what they're looking at. Does it say just press enter and hope for the best? Many Linux installers give options in English (Install to whole hard drive, Install to free space) besides manual partitioning.
So, how exactly is XP installation easier? Name one way it's easier than Linux.
You decided which distro to go with solely because of the names?
I personally like Ubuntu more than Fedora. I took a couple classes in Fedora/Red Hat, but for home use I find Ubuntu more user-friendly. For windows switchers though I recommend either Mepis or Linspire. Ubuntu is only for newbies excited to use the command line.
I'd slap you for that, but with the default theme they ask for that. First thing I did when I got dapper was fire up firefox in search any other theme but that.
>So your mom would have an easier time installing windows?
>Well, yes, most likely.
Bullshit. Windows installs are not newb-friendly at all. She'd definately need help when it came to the partitioning part, because Windows only offers manual partitioning and featureless manual partitioning at that (no resizing of partitions, etc). Then there's the issue of drivers. Ubuntu recognizes all of my hardware on install, but XP doesn't even recognize my ethernet. Yeah, a newb is going to figure out what drivers are and where to find them and how to install them, sure.
The author had a rather unique and complex hardware problem. Any OS can have wierd hardware problems. If you don't want to mess with wierd hardware problems then you can always buy a system with that OS preinstalled. Here's some suggestions for Linux: http://www.koobox.com/ http://system76.com/
If you cannot understand why adjusting the system time needs elevated privileges, you're probably not qualified to be making any comments about security. At all.
Linux and OSX, both more secure OSs than Windows, allow users to change the time without root priviledges.
I'm sorry I don't understand your crazy Windows ways. Maybe I should look to your OS for guidelines on security, given it's great track record in that department. Ha!
[/sarcasm]
Actually, as I understand the reason that *nix lets users change the time is because they're not changing system time, they're changing their individual user time. Which, as far as protecting the system from dumbass users goes, makes a hell of a lot more sense than the Windows way.
I've not seen anything on Vista - but what if your password is *blank*? (and no, I'm not meaning the letters b l a n k....)
I'm guessing you can't make it blank. From everything I've heard, Vista is supposed to be heavy on security, and allowing blank admin passwords would pretty much make all that work useless.
Only recently am I starting to see titles that span more than one DVD.
We're already seeing two-disc DVD games, so with games getting bigger and bigger how much longer until Blu-ray (or HDDVD or whatever) becomes more practical than DVD? Back when the PS2 came out, few games even filled up one CD and some people argued against the PS2 needing DVD, yet obviously in hindsight it was a good move. The PS3 is going to last for 5 or 6 years (or 10 if you listen to their marketing hype). It's for the most part unupgradable, so if Blu-ray or whatever becames popular in 3 years, you can easily add it to your computer, but not you PS3. Sony could make it an option, but then the game developers have to target the lowest common denominator and we'd wind up with 8-disc games.
Eh? Starforce protected games won't run under XP without admin rights either - or are you trying to say that you need to grant the admin account even more rights under Vista? (Which raises two questions - what account do you use to elevate admin's privileges, and why not simply run the game as that account instead?)
As I understand, in Vista you will not be able to run with full control over everything, even if your name is administrator. When you need more priviledges (for things like installing software, mucking up your system folders, etc) Vista will ask for your password. This protects against spyware and viruses and dumb users (obviously not completely, but somewhat). Ubuntu and Mac OSX do this as well, though from what I've heard Vista doesn't implement it as well, and asks for your password at for stupid things like adusting the time.
Oh, I wasn't using Windows as a model. I hate installing Windows. I can never find driver disks when I need them so the whole thing always takes me hours. Linux installs have spoiled me.
I guess Debian installs have improved since I last tried, which is great for Debian. Mepis has the easiest install I've ever seen though. I gave a live/install disk to my non-techy friend who wanted to try Linux (who had never installed an OS before), telling her if she liked it I'd install it in a couple days, and when I came back a couple days later she already had it installed. Now Ubuntu's taken Mepis's install ideas and it looks like they've made it even easier for their new release, though I haven't tried it yet.
Ubuntu doesn't write the shadow passwords to an unsecure file. Previous Ubuntu installers (that are long since unavailable) had a bug that wrote the password for the user account created during install to an unsecure file, however, this has long since been patched, and this bug was rendered moot by simply changing your user password. It was much less of a deal than you're making it sound.
I've used Ubuntu as my main OS for about a year and haven't had any problems, but I've had wierd problems with Kubuntu. When I installed it on my secondary computer, I couldn't get ethernet or sound working, even though they had worked just fine under Ubuntu, and when I installed it on my friend's machine, sudo broke. I've heard of other wierd problems people have had with Kubuntu, like printer support being completely broken, that I've never heard of with Ubuntu. I'm not sure what the hell the Kubuntu team is doing, but either try Ubuntu, or, if you really like KDE, go with Mepis.
I never said we should pass more laws against piracy, and I never said the BSA isn't full of shit. I said that piracy is bad and people need to only get software they can afford, even if that means they're limited to free stuff. There's lots of free software available of really good quality (my software is all free, even though I could afford to pay for proprietary stuff) so I don't see why people "need" to pirate.
I was using "you" as the generic "you" - I wasn't saying you personally were pirating. As far as blame goes, if you don't think piracy is wrong then I don't know how I'd convince you otherwise.
There'splenty of open-source3d modeling software, and I bet there's plenty of open-source software for any other need a small business might have. Maybe you don't like that software as much as the software that costs money, but that doesn't mean you can just download proprietary software without paying the asking price. Software companies don't owe you their software. There's plenty of software being offered for free, why don't you use that instead of the software that isn't?
Ask a nerdy friend. Duh. Most people do not stand alone.
Not even nerds know all the different distros. My non-technical friend, who is happily using Mepis right now, was originally recommended Fedora Core, a distro that (no offense Red Hat fans) would have made her cry. Many long-time Linux users on slashdot have stated they've never even heard of Mepis, and the last time I saw someone list some good newbie distros (Mepis, PCLinuxOS, Kanotix) the general response was "Yeah, and which one of those plays flash/mp3s right out of the box" and the comments of "Yeah, I hate Linux for not supporting that stuff" pretty much drowned out the correct responses of "ALL OF THEM". If even nerds don't understand which distros are for newbies and why, then how the hell are newbies supposed to figure it out?
At out company, that wouldn't be the fault of the fiddlers. Our company doesn't test Windows Updates, we just set all the computers (even the servers!) to automatically update. It's great when people are working on applications on a server and then Windows Update decides to reboot it, but I'm too low on the totem poll to change it.
Slashdot Mirror
Oh my God! *runs off to backup high score file*
I've never known who had invidual accounts for everyone who used the computer, even on XP, so that's why I said what I did in my last post. I guess it's good that people are using different accounts, though rather useless because, as you point out, they're all admins. Appearently Microsoft is finally fixing this with Vista, so that'll be better for dumb users still stuck with Windows.
I agree. It's not like if my /home got deleted I'ld be all "well, at least my frozen bubble playing is uninterrupted!"
Time to be bitchslapped back to reality. Linux is not ready for the masses just because you can use it.
It's a lot closer than you imagine. My friend uses Linux (Mepis, specifically) and I don't think she even knows what the command line is. And no, I didn't spend hours configuring it for her, she installed it herself and didn't need to do any configuring because it automatically recognized her hardware and came with mp3, DVD, etc support. My mom used my Linux box and is jealous because all the silly puzzle games she buys for $20 a piece are available for free with Ubuntu. I'd give her Linux, but her computer is used for telecommuting with her job, so I really can't.
Linux is great for home use and is getting better all the time. It's problem is that people don't know that. However, and more and more users get fed up with viruses and Windows and whatever, they will take the time to find out.
I don't like Windows and don't use it on my home computer, however, I have to call you out and let you know that Windows does have that kind of security. It's perfectly easy on XP to give Peggy Sue her own account and lock her out of Dad's stuff.
Now, if you were arguing that Peggy Sue would get less viruses and spyware on Linux because most distros don't default to root and any browser on Linux is much more secure than Windows' default, IE, then I would totally agree with you. But you're arguing that Linux will protect Dad from Peggy Sue, but if they use the same account on Windows they likely will on Linux, so Linux can't really protect him from her. She could delete the home folder just as easily as she could delete My Documents.
It did earlier this morning, but the servers are already overloaded. Glad I already got it.
Here's the link for when it works again: http://releases.ubuntu.com/6.06/
What about users who lose those disks? Several years ago my hard drive died and the technication left me with a new one - and I had no idea where my Windows disk was, let alone the driver disks. I managed to get a copy of Windows from a friend, but finding all the drivers for everything was a bitch. I wasn't even a newb either, I at least knew what drivers are and how to install them. What's Joe User or you mom going to say when you try to explain drivers to them?
After a successful Windows install, you have a screen with crappy resolution and crappy colors, no sound, no connection to the internet and a lot of work ahead of you fixing those problems, and then you get to install all your applications. After a successful Linux install, you have a fully working computer with most if not all of the programs you need.
Windows Defender doesn't automatically install. Most of the computers at my job are XP with automatical updates turned on and the only ones that have it are the ones I manually installed it to.
Of course, that's if the user has any idea what they're looking at. Does it say just press enter and hope for the best? Many Linux installers give options in English (Install to whole hard drive, Install to free space) besides manual partitioning.
So, how exactly is XP installation easier? Name one way it's easier than Linux.
You decided which distro to go with solely because of the names?
I personally like Ubuntu more than Fedora. I took a couple classes in Fedora/Red Hat, but for home use I find Ubuntu more user-friendly. For windows switchers though I recommend either Mepis or Linspire. Ubuntu is only for newbies excited to use the command line.
I'd slap you for that, but with the default theme they ask for that. First thing I did when I got dapper was fire up firefox in search any other theme but that.
>So your mom would have an easier time installing windows? >Well, yes, most likely.
Bullshit. Windows installs are not newb-friendly at all. She'd definately need help when it came to the partitioning part, because Windows only offers manual partitioning and featureless manual partitioning at that (no resizing of partitions, etc). Then there's the issue of drivers. Ubuntu recognizes all of my hardware on install, but XP doesn't even recognize my ethernet. Yeah, a newb is going to figure out what drivers are and where to find them and how to install them, sure.
The author had a rather unique and complex hardware problem. Any OS can have wierd hardware problems. If you don't want to mess with wierd hardware problems then you can always buy a system with that OS preinstalled. Here's some suggestions for Linux:
http://www.koobox.com/
http://system76.com/
If you cannot understand why adjusting the system time needs elevated privileges, you're probably not qualified to be making any comments about security. At all.
Linux and OSX, both more secure OSs than Windows, allow users to change the time without root priviledges.
I'm sorry I don't understand your crazy Windows ways. Maybe I should look to your OS for guidelines on security, given it's great track record in that department. Ha!
[/sarcasm]
Actually, as I understand the reason that *nix lets users change the time is because they're not changing system time, they're changing their individual user time. Which, as far as protecting the system from dumbass users goes, makes a hell of a lot more sense than the Windows way.
I've not seen anything on Vista - but what if your password is *blank*? (and no, I'm not meaning the letters b l a n k....)
I'm guessing you can't make it blank. From everything I've heard, Vista is supposed to be heavy on security, and allowing blank admin passwords would pretty much make all that work useless.
Only recently am I starting to see titles that span more than one DVD.
We're already seeing two-disc DVD games, so with games getting bigger and bigger how much longer until Blu-ray (or HDDVD or whatever) becomes more practical than DVD? Back when the PS2 came out, few games even filled up one CD and some people argued against the PS2 needing DVD, yet obviously in hindsight it was a good move. The PS3 is going to last for 5 or 6 years (or 10 if you listen to their marketing hype). It's for the most part unupgradable, so if Blu-ray or whatever becames popular in 3 years, you can easily add it to your computer, but not you PS3. Sony could make it an option, but then the game developers have to target the lowest common denominator and we'd wind up with 8-disc games.
Eh? Starforce protected games won't run under XP without admin rights either - or are you trying to say that you need to grant the admin account even more rights under Vista? (Which raises two questions - what account do you use to elevate admin's privileges, and why not simply run the game as that account instead?)
As I understand, in Vista you will not be able to run with full control over everything, even if your name is administrator. When you need more priviledges (for things like installing software, mucking up your system folders, etc) Vista will ask for your password. This protects against spyware and viruses and dumb users (obviously not completely, but somewhat). Ubuntu and Mac OSX do this as well, though from what I've heard Vista doesn't implement it as well, and asks for your password at for stupid things like adusting the time.
Much easier than Windows,
Oh, I wasn't using Windows as a model. I hate installing Windows. I can never find driver disks when I need them so the whole thing always takes me hours. Linux installs have spoiled me.
I guess Debian installs have improved since I last tried, which is great for Debian. Mepis has the easiest install I've ever seen though. I gave a live/install disk to my non-techy friend who wanted to try Linux (who had never installed an OS before), telling her if she liked it I'd install it in a couple days, and when I came back a couple days later she already had it installed. Now Ubuntu's taken Mepis's install ideas and it looks like they've made it even easier for their new release, though I haven't tried it yet.
It's amazing how fast things improve for Linux.
Debian is not known for being easy to install either.
Ubuntu doesn't write the shadow passwords to an unsecure file. Previous Ubuntu installers (that are long since unavailable) had a bug that wrote the password for the user account created during install to an unsecure file, however, this has long since been patched, and this bug was rendered moot by simply changing your user password. It was much less of a deal than you're making it sound.
I've used Ubuntu as my main OS for about a year and haven't had any problems, but I've had wierd problems with Kubuntu. When I installed it on my secondary computer, I couldn't get ethernet or sound working, even though they had worked just fine under Ubuntu, and when I installed it on my friend's machine, sudo broke. I've heard of other wierd problems people have had with Kubuntu, like printer support being completely broken, that I've never heard of with Ubuntu. I'm not sure what the hell the Kubuntu team is doing, but either try Ubuntu, or, if you really like KDE, go with Mepis.
I never said we should pass more laws against piracy, and I never said the BSA isn't full of shit. I said that piracy is bad and people need to only get software they can afford, even if that means they're limited to free stuff. There's lots of free software available of really good quality (my software is all free, even though I could afford to pay for proprietary stuff) so I don't see why people "need" to pirate.
I was using "you" as the generic "you" - I wasn't saying you personally were pirating. As far as blame goes, if you don't think piracy is wrong then I don't know how I'd convince you otherwise.
There's plenty of open-source 3d modeling software, and I bet there's plenty of open-source software for any other need a small business might have. Maybe you don't like that software as much as the software that costs money, but that doesn't mean you can just download proprietary software without paying the asking price. Software companies don't owe you their software. There's plenty of software being offered for free, why don't you use that instead of the software that isn't?
Ask a nerdy friend. Duh. Most people do not stand alone.
Not even nerds know all the different distros. My non-technical friend, who is happily using Mepis right now, was originally recommended Fedora Core, a distro that (no offense Red Hat fans) would have made her cry. Many long-time Linux users on slashdot have stated they've never even heard of Mepis, and the last time I saw someone list some good newbie distros (Mepis, PCLinuxOS, Kanotix) the general response was "Yeah, and which one of those plays flash/mp3s right out of the box" and the comments of "Yeah, I hate Linux for not supporting that stuff" pretty much drowned out the correct responses of "ALL OF THEM". If even nerds don't understand which distros are for newbies and why, then how the hell are newbies supposed to figure it out?
At out company, that wouldn't be the fault of the fiddlers. Our company doesn't test Windows Updates, we just set all the computers (even the servers!) to automatically update. It's great when people are working on applications on a server and then Windows Update decides to reboot it, but I'm too low on the totem poll to change it.