What software suites are being used in schools is pretty irrelevant. Once these kids get on the job market the tools in use will be different anyway.
It benefits the students in the long run if they know how to use a wider range of software. The software evolves constantly and being able to learn how to use new tools, regardless what is used at the work place, is most important.
Yeah, I'm sure after they know how to get around a Linux system, trying to learn the sugar candy of Windows XP will prove a monumental learning task for them.
The poorest schools are the most likely candidates to look for alternatives for Microsoft monopoly. The new licensing schemes MS has come up with their latest suite of software have caused several schools, communities and in general, non-business users to look for alternatives for Windows and MS Office. Many of them have looked at Linux and OpenOffice (or other OSS office suites) as a replacement.
Maybe I'm being cynical, but Microsoft providing the software for these institutions for free would be a very good move on their part to slow down the adoption of alternative operating systems and office suites. It's here, in schools that cannot afford the MS pricing anymore, that the erosion of MS monopoly will begin, and Microsoft has proposed a very effective counter measure to it. They slow down Linux and OSS adoption, and get DOJ off their backs. Both with one strike.
Then again, maybe they're just doing it for the goodness of their hearts...
Actually I doubt IBM is paying huge royalties for their J2EE implementation. Just search the J2EE related news articles that appeared about 12 months ago to find out why.
You could build an army of nano robots that look like ants. Those little critters can get anywhere. You could hide a whole bunch of them in bin Laden's beard.
The issue with Lutris was they wanted their server to be certified. Also you should notice that it was Lutris decision alone to close the EE project. They're playing a blame game and pointing at Sun. I'm not buying it.
Also, what does tomcat do to help my php/python/perl and (yes) windows software? Not much unless I integrate into it XMLRPC or SOAP which is not trivial.
JBoss 3.x series will natively support SOAP and Web Services. If that is enough for your integration needs, then we hope to have a solution available for you soon.
I remember this story that appeared when Microsoft announced they'd be shutting down their free ListBot service. From the quote you get the impression Microsoft is planning on turning Hotmail into a paid service too.
In the past few months, Microsoft been very open about its plans to "migrate" users of its free services to paid services. Most notably, the company is hoping that those who use its free Hotmail e-mail and MSN Messenger instant messaging service will start using a planned set of paid services called.NET.
But if there is no other version but the ones supported by MS, then people will program with the win32 libraries, and we are no closer to an open standard.
The majority of people programming on.NET platform will code to the win32 libraries. They've been using libraries like ASP and ADO for some time now, and they will migrate to use ASP.NET and ADO.NET and WebForms. These libraries aren't openly specified nor submitted to ECMA, and there has been no indication from Microsoft that they would be anytime soon.
Imagine all the advantages of the Java platform, without the one huge disadvantage of that platform, you don't have to write everything in Java.
Well, there is still no chance of building anything serious with.NET that is cross-platform, unless we see libraries such as ADO.NET, ASP.NET and WebForms being openly specified or standardized. Until that time, Java has one big advantage over.NET.
I haven't seen any major announcements concerning C#/CLI from IBM. So far they've been content to create the Web Services implementation (UDDI, WSDL and SOAP) in Java to enable the use of Web Services in their J2EE platform (WebSphere).
Sun's nursing some pretty bitter feelings right now after watching the developer community scramble to support.NET while for the most part having given Java the cold shoulder.
I doubt Sun is nursing any bitter feelings. Their J2EE platform has more than 20 commercial implementations available, and several Open Source ones. It seems.NET has some catching up to do.
Where's the excitement about Sun ONE?
Well, honestly the Sun ONE looks just like a marketing effort that puts an IDE on top of the already existing J2EE platform. J2EE is the existing platform that.NET is competing against, and J2EE seems to gather plenty of excitement. It has established itself well in the market place, and pretty much taken over the application server market.
J2EE's just a Microsoft Transaction Server ripoff
That is not what J2EE is. If you need a comparable Microsoft platform, it used to be called Microsoft DNA, today its.NET.
I can't get the page to work work with Netscape. Ah well. Too bad. Maybe it is a telling sign what.NET will be.
Anyway... I don't know what's on that page but.. I'm not looking for the Javadoc equivalent of the.NET classes (I'm sure they exist), I'm looking for the specification of.NET libraries.
Having Java the language in the hands of some standards committee doesn't buy me a thing. It does not help me to develop applications. I think it is better to keep a language out of committees while it is still evolving. I also think Sun did wisely to create JCP and use that for the development of both language, the virtual machine and all of the libraries.
I do not consider C# being in ECMA an advantage at all. To me it means nothing. It is just a PR stunt.
no they haven't all been submitted. It's my hope that Microsoft does this
But that is not what I will put my bets on. I'd rather go with something I know is openly specified.
You are 100% right in that it's the libraries that count and not the language. So why not consider using C#, VB.NET, PERL.NEt or whatever?
If those were the only languages available, C# would be the one I'd consider. But you don't include Java in your list, and C# doesn't offer any benefits over Java. So why bother?
I have never had to pay for Java compiler, or any other Java tools I use. I have tons of Open Source Java code available to me. Why would I bother with Microsoft's expensive tools and platform dependant libraries? Doesn't seem like I'd win anything.
Do you have requirements for cross-paltform?
Absolutely. At the moment I am working on a server software that has been deployed on Win32, Linux, Solaris, MacOS and HP-UX. In addition there's a host of management tools that are both web enabled or standalone cross-platform GUI applications. Cross-platform is a necessity.
Most organizations have long since decided on a platform and have no need for cross-paltform.
A single organization may have decided on a platform but they all didn't decide on the same platform. I have alot to thank Java for for being able to provide a single codebase to serve all those people. One of them is a big HP-UX shop, another is all Solaris, some are W2K shops. Alot of them have interest in Linux.
.NET doesn't offer anything even close to this. It simply is not an option.
Actually they are cross-platform and I have seen them on many OS's but you're right - they aren't all publically specified (yet). Which is fair but remember that Java pre V1.0 didn't have them all publically specified yet..NET isn't even released yet. Who's to say what's going to happen post Beta 2?
You said, in what started this thread:
They submitted the CLI, CLR, and CTS to ECMA as well as the libraries. The specs are now freely available from Microsoft, HP, and IBM's sites. They have also submitted the libraries. They have also published these specs in book form - I know because I have them and I don't work for Microsoft. Please stop posting things about things you know nothing about. Don't sprout rhetoric and stay to the facts.
I asked for these libraries and their specifications, yet you have nothing to show for other than excuses. Maybe you're the one who should stick to facts, no?
The language does not matter to me. The libraries do. With a good cross-platform libs I could do VB for all I care. And btw, JVM can run more languages than.NET.
You claimed these libraries are available, and submitted to ECMA. I called you for it, and you didn't have anything to show for.
Slashdot Mirror
It benefits the students in the long run if they know how to use a wider range of software. The software evolves constantly and being able to learn how to use new tools, regardless what is used at the work place, is most important.
Yeah, I'm sure after they know how to get around a Linux system, trying to learn the sugar candy of Windows XP will prove a monumental learning task for them.
Maybe I'm being cynical, but Microsoft providing the software for these institutions for free would be a very good move on their part to slow down the adoption of alternative operating systems and office suites. It's here, in schools that cannot afford the MS pricing anymore, that the erosion of MS monopoly will begin, and Microsoft has proposed a very effective counter measure to it. They slow down Linux and OSS adoption, and get DOJ off their backs. Both with one strike.
Then again, maybe they're just doing it for the goodness of their hearts...
Actually I doubt IBM is paying huge royalties for their J2EE implementation. Just search the J2EE related news articles that appeared about 12 months ago to find out why.
You could build an army of nano robots that look like ants. Those little critters can get anywhere. You could hide a whole bunch of them in bin Laden's beard.
William Gibson
Kurt Vonnegut
Stephen King
Douglas Adams
That's the Top 5 I think will be around 50 years. hmm, well there are others, five is too short of a list.
Specifications:
Windows 95/98/ME/2000
Pentium 300Mhz/32 RAM
100MB hard drive
DirectX 7 video & sound
In practice, I'd estimate 500Mhz Pentium/128MB mem, 250MB hard drive space.
Microsoft has signed consent degrees before and broken them. They were not fined for it.
Microsoft will break this consent degree, and they will not be fined for it.
In 2007, Microsoft will sign yet another consent degree. They will break it, and will not be fined.
They did not ask that MS would not bundle any JVM, just that the Microsoft's incompatible VM that they wrongly called Java cannot be bundled.
It was Microsoft's decision to bundle nothing at all.
The issue with Lutris was they wanted their server to be certified. Also you should notice that it was Lutris decision alone to close the EE project. They're playing a blame game and pointing at Sun. I'm not buying it.
JBoss 3.x series will natively support SOAP and Web Services. If that is enough for your integration needs, then we hope to have a solution available for you soon.
Not by themselves. But with JBoss there is still hope.
Why not use the free JBoss implementation? Works on solaris.
Sun has a death-grip on Java and refuses to loosen it at all.
There is no death-grip and Java Community Process (v2) seems to be working quite well.
But if there is no other version but the ones supported by MS, then people will program with the win32 libraries, and we are no closer to an open standard.
.NET platform will code to the win32 libraries. They've been using libraries like ASP and ADO for some time now, and they will migrate to use ASP.NET and ADO.NET and WebForms. These libraries aren't openly specified nor submitted to ECMA, and there has been no indication from Microsoft that they would be anytime soon.
The majority of people programming on
Imagine all the advantages of the Java platform, without the one huge disadvantage of that platform, you don't have to write everything in Java.
.NET that is cross-platform, unless we see libraries such as ADO.NET, ASP.NET and WebForms being openly specified or standardized. Until that time, Java has one big advantage over .NET.
Well, there is still no chance of building anything serious with
One article I've seen was this:
Comdex Canada: No Web Services 'Revolution' for IBM.
The article indicates IBM is going ahead with its strategy to enable interoperability between platforms by the use of XML and Java.
Sun's nursing some pretty bitter feelings right now after watching the developer community scramble to support .NET while for the most part having given Java the cold shoulder.
.NET has some catching up to do.
.NET is competing against, and J2EE seems to gather plenty of excitement. It has established itself well in the market place, and pretty much taken over the application server market.
.NET.
I doubt Sun is nursing any bitter feelings. Their J2EE platform has more than 20 commercial implementations available, and several Open Source ones. It seems
Where's the excitement about Sun ONE?
Well, honestly the Sun ONE looks just like a marketing effort that puts an IDE on top of the already existing J2EE platform. J2EE is the existing platform that
J2EE's just a Microsoft Transaction Server ripoff
That is not what J2EE is. If you need a comparable Microsoft platform, it used to be called Microsoft DNA, today its
I can't get the page to work work with Netscape. Ah well. Too bad. Maybe it is a telling sign what .NET will be.
.NET classes (I'm sure they exist), I'm looking for the specification of .NET libraries.
Anyway... I don't know what's on that page but.. I'm not looking for the Javadoc equivalent of the
Having Java the language in the hands of some standards committee doesn't buy me a thing. It does not help me to develop applications. I think it is better to keep a language out of committees while it is still evolving. I also think Sun did wisely to create JCP and use that for the development of both language, the virtual machine and all of the libraries.
I do not consider C# being in ECMA an advantage at all. To me it means nothing. It is just a PR stunt.
no they haven't all been submitted. It's my hope that Microsoft does this
But that is not what I will put my bets on. I'd rather go with something I know is openly specified.
You are 100% right in that it's the libraries that count and not the language. So why not consider using C#, VB.NET, PERL.NEt or whatever?
If those were the only languages available, C# would be the one I'd consider. But you don't include Java in your list, and C# doesn't offer any benefits over Java. So why bother?
I have never had to pay for Java compiler, or any other Java tools I use. I have tons of Open Source Java code available to me. Why would I bother with Microsoft's expensive tools and platform dependant libraries? Doesn't seem like I'd win anything.
Do you have requirements for cross-paltform?
Absolutely. At the moment I am working on a server software that has been deployed on Win32, Linux, Solaris, MacOS and HP-UX. In addition there's a host of management tools that are both web enabled or standalone cross-platform GUI applications. Cross-platform is a necessity.
Most organizations have long since decided on a platform and have no need for cross-paltform.
A single organization may have decided on a platform but they all didn't decide on the same platform. I have alot to thank Java for for being able to provide a single codebase to serve all those people. One of them is a big HP-UX shop, another is all Solaris, some are W2K shops. Alot of them have interest in Linux.
.NET doesn't offer anything even close to this. It simply is not an option.
Actually they are cross-platform and I have seen them on many OS's but you're right - they aren't all publically specified (yet). Which is fair but remember that Java pre V1.0 didn't have them all publically specified yet. .NET isn't even released yet. Who's to say what's going to happen post Beta 2?
You said, in what started this thread:
They submitted the CLI, CLR, and CTS to ECMA as well as the libraries. The specs are now freely available from Microsoft, HP, and IBM's sites. They have also submitted the libraries. They have also published these specs in book form - I know because I have them and I don't work for Microsoft. Please stop posting things about things you know nothing about. Don't sprout rhetoric and stay to the facts.
I asked for these libraries and their specifications, yet you have nothing to show for other than excuses. Maybe you're the one who should stick to facts, no?
The language does not matter to me. The libraries do. With a good cross-platform libs I could do VB for all I care. And btw, JVM can run more languages than .NET.
You claimed these libraries are available, and submitted to ECMA. I called you for it, and you didn't have anything to show for.
I don't have 3-4 years to wait so I can do with .NET what I can do with Java today.
And your thousands of classes aren't cross-platform or publicly specified.