Who or what is YOUR ultimate authority? Your intelligence? Your ability to reason? Your education? What others tell you that you already agree with? Everyone has some source of authority.
....The Roman Catholic church already accepts that microevolution happens...
They would also likely accept that intelligent scientists are able to do things that don't happen randomly in nature. Here some intelligent scientists DESIGNED an experiment and found that bacteria can adapt to using some other nutrients than what they were used to, before the scientists manipulated the nutrient source. Boy, what a monumental discovery! These e-coli bacteria were STILl e-coli bacteria and will forever remain e-coli bacteria, even though under duress from the experiment, expressed their innate ability to thrive on some other nutrients.
....They probably did develop the ability to metabolize a number of other substances....
How would it be possible to differentiate whether these bacteria DEVELOPED an ability or simply switched on an ability already inherent but dormant until it was needed for survival? Most living things have preferred foods, but absent such favored fare, are able to survive on a surprising number of substitutes.
Of course occurred entirely at random, out in the wilds of nature someplace, without the involvement of intelligent scientists working diligently in their lab. Were there new bacteria or did the same old bacteria just exhibit an already inherent ability to use a different source of nutrition? Is it possible to discern that this "newly found" ability of these bacteria to thrive on a different nutrient was NOT already latent in the original ones they started with?
The newly skilled bacteria are still e-coli and not some other species, such as coccus or spirochete. So therefore, as usual, this is not a case of macro-evolution at all, but as always, only another example of the amazing adaptability of living things. Applying the word "evolution" to such adaptation doesn't justify the leap to claiming that birds came from reptiles or monkeys are the ancestors of people.
....things are going to be worse than they ever have been in world history,....
Indeed, Jesus does tell us exactly what you have been saying. He tells us that if He did not intervene, there would be no survivors of mankind. We live in a period of history where mankind has the capability to make himself and all life forms extinct. This has never been the case before. The wonderful truth is though, that Jesus gives hope of a better world and strength for those who trust him to remain faithful until he appears.
Christians are like beggars telling other beggars where to find bread, the bread of life, Jesus himself. Notice I said that Christians are LIKE beggars, not that they are. They are sons and daughters of the Most High, the ruler of the Universe.
As such, He has a different perspective of time, since He is not subject to time, because He created it. In spite of appearances to the contrary, the bottom line is that God is good, all good. He will achieve His goals despite the existence of evil and will at the end separate good from evil. While we are still here, living in or mortal bodies, He invites all humans to simply trust Him and rely on His power to hang in there and personally resist evil and eventually triumph over it.
The apostle Peter, writing to the Christians of his day, tells them not to be surprised by the fiery trials they are about to enter into. Emperor Nero, in power in Rome at the time, was at least as bad if not worse than Hitler. Christian history tells us that he covered Christians with tar and use them as living torches in his gardens. Compared to some who have ruled people throughout various periods in history, George W. Bush is rather benign.
Christians understand, or should, that this planet belongs to God. We humans did not make it and cannot control it despite our most fervent wishes. We have been commissioned by the owner of the property to properly take care of it for Him. That is why Christians, of all people should be environmentalists who endeavor to tread lightly on God's earth, gratefully using but not abusing the resources he has graciously put here for us.
....Millenia? We didn't really have the modern scientific method....
The Bible is not a scientific textbook, but a compilation of things that the God of creation desires for us humans to know by faith. We live most of our lives by faith not sure knowledge. You don't know for sure that the wheels will stay on your car, but you have a reasonable faith that they will not fall off.
Unlike all other constellations visible to the naked eye, the stars of Orion are gravitationally linked. God asks Job if he is able to unlink them. God also mentions the Pleiades and asks Job if he is able to link them.
The phrase "stretched out the heavens" occurs a number of times in scripture in connection with a creative activity of God. Modern science tells us that indeed, the universe was stretched out from a single, a very compact point.
Long before scientists discovered the water cycle, King Solomon wrote about it in the Ecclesiastes 1:7. Is it possible that God might have communicated this truth to one of the wisest human beings ever?
(...These came from scientists, not priests...)
Most early scientists were Christians that believed that the universe and the earth were created by a rational intelligent God, that could therefore be explored and understood by men. Just as human laws come from human minds, so too the natural laws, the laws of physics also, come from a mind, the mind of God. We can walk on the moon because of the consistent predictable laws which God instituted for the entire universe.
(..There's also the fact we can see evolution occurring...)
All such so-called evolution examples I have ever come across are confined to the adaptability already inherent in all living organisms. Perhaps you can give me an example of where this is NOT the case.
(..Having radioactive decay rates change for no reason..)
Perhaps you can give me a reason why radioactive decay rates could not change over time. We have only known about radioactivity for a relative microsecond of time. In all of nature and there are few things as constant as change.
(..Why do you follow your particular god?...)
Because my God, Jesus Christ, is alive, where as all others are very much dead. My God has revealed secrets of the workings of our universe as part of the revelation of his will to mankind. The scientific truth of the Bible is not exhaustive, but very much in agreement with modern knowledge. My God is the only one that is not part of this creation but is outside of it, transcendent beyond time and space. He was willing to become a man and thereby enter his creation. He alone effectively deals with the root cause of all of men's problems, namely that which He calls sin. He calls not believing Him and what He has told us sin, because we are effectively calling the creator and ruler of the entire universe a liar. You will not go to hell because of the evil you have done and neither will I go to heaven because of the good I have done, but, whether we choose to believe or not believe what he has revealed about Himself and about ourselves. My God is the only deity that reaches down to man, rather than expecting men to reach up to him by whatever effort a person might be capable of. It all boils down to this:
John 3:16 For God so loved the world that He gave His only-begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have everlasting life.
These exclusive factors, as revealed in the holy Bible are some of my reasons for believing. You too can accept or reject His offer of eternal life. My prayer is that you will think about this seriously. Your simple prayer can be: "Dear God I don't even know if you exist, but if you do, I want to get to know you. Please help me with this."
....The atmosphere has a small heat capacity, but a large effect on the Earth's radiation balance.....
It may be true that through cloud cover and pollutants, the atmosphere would reflect varying amounts of sunlight. If this effect were significant for the long term, then the temperature of the oceans must change to track this. So far at least, the measurements of ocean temperatures are remarkably constant. Whatever "forcing" theorized to be taking place, is not having a significant effect on the oceans and therefore the Earth as a whole. The average temperature of a body is always determined by how much energy is gained and how much is lost. From actual measurements, this balance has not changed much for our planet as a whole, at least as far as we can tell over the short time we have been measuring.
...The secular interpretations of science have been getting the predictions right for several hundreds of years.....
Really? Can you give me at a few examples or even only one, of any such predictions have come true?
The oldest book in the Bible is the book of Job. Therein we are told that the Earth is spherical and suspended upon nothing. This is completely contrary to the prevailing scientific opinions that were considered politically correct, millennia ago, when this was written. In that same book we are told about ocean currents many centuries before Maury explored the seven seas, discovering and charging these. God talks to Job and gives him a science quiz which he flunked. Some of the questions God asked still have not been answered by any scientists even today.
Carbon dating and all other radioactive dating methods make the underlying assumption that these processes are invariant over large periods of time. This may or may not be a reasonable assumption, but it is an assumption, that is a belief nevertheless. There is no way to prove that these processes have always been what we measure them to be today. Science has made many what were at the time thought to be reasonable assumptions, but in the end these turned out to be wrong.
The reality is that evolutionists tend to split human creations and natural creation. No evolutionist would ever attribute a 747 airplane to any process other than that originating in a mind, but then turn around and try to convince themselves and others that a single cell, being far more complicated than any airplane or other human device, came about by spontaneous, natural processes NOT involving careful thought and planning.
Creationists on the other hand, do not split reality, but attribute human as well as natural creations to processes that first occurred in a mind, carefully thinking and planning a product or living creature.
Anytime a person admits even tentatively, that there might be a Creator God after all, may then begin to think about his or her relationship to this perhaps existing God. Because many people do not wish to go there, they will adhere to and rationalize a worldview to that specifically excludes God from their consciousness.
....but doesn't strongly control the total amount of warming which is ultimately experienced.....
If that statement were true, the Gulf Stream would not have much of an effect on the Northern European climate. However we know that it has a profound effect. It is the cold Alaskan current coming down from the north which determines the climate on most of the West Coast of North America. The atmospheric circulation patterns are determined by the oceans on a global scale. Mountains and land masses have only a much smaller secondary effect.
Compared to water, air has very little heat holding capacity and therefore affects climate only locally, not globally. We see this in the large daily temperature swings in the desert regions of the earth that are far removed from any large bodies of water. It is the moisture held in the atmosphere, not the air as such that determines weather patterns. Warm moist air can carry much more energy than equally warm dry air. Still compared to water itself, even the most moisture laden air contains only a small amount of heat energy compared to an equivalent volume of water.
Therefore, unless the temperature of the oceans change significantly, the overall temperature of the Earth will not vary by much. We humans and all other life forms can be very grateful that this is so.
....Interpretation of data does depend slightly on your worldview.....
Not slightly, but entirely. For every single piece of data that you can interpret as evidence for impersonal processes, a creationist can interpret that same data from the point of view of the existence of a Creator God.
I challenge you to come up with a single piece of scientific evidence, that cannot be interpreted either way.
Do you really think that polar bears are any less agile at adapting to changes in their environment than their cousins in the lower 48? Bears of all kinds do rather well if they are not hunted excessively. They learn to take advantage of human created advantages, such as garbage dumps and cans rather quickly. We humans may refer that they may remain more "wild" but somehow we have a hard time getting that idea across to bears finding easy food in a garbage pile.
As for the weather, we know that, as all nature goes in cycles. Some of these cycles are relatively short, such as the 11 year solar cycle. Some are really long and because of that are hard for us short lived creatures to comprehend. Right now we are on a very slight warming trend. The average increase of the whole ocean temperature is so slight it is barely measurable.
We find pollen and other evidence at the bottom of ice cores from Greenland, that this part of the Earth was indeed green with the same sort of plant life that still grows in the eastern US. Ancient Viking accounts tell of bold voyages through the northern sea lanes of the western hemisphere. So yes, we are in a warming cycle, but your SUV has nothing to do with it. Still, it is a good idea to be kind to the Earth, since we are not the creator or owner thereof.
...that the scientific method is far more accurate...
The scientific method does give us, at least most of the time, data on what is happening in the real world. Through observation and experimentation we do get some evidence of what is going on around us in nature.
It is in the interpretation of this evidence in the believing of it, that differences arise. These differences arise mainly, because as human beings we have differences in our worldview. Everything we do and observe is filtered through the eyes of our worldview, which is of course shaped by our core beliefs.
The modern worldview is that we live in a universe shaped and controlled by impersonal forces of time and natural law. The far older worldview, extant over most of humanity's existence, it is that the universe was created by and is controlled by a transcendent, personal, intelligent God.
All evidence brought forth by the scientific method is filtered through either one or the other of these two worldviews. Those that have the naturalistic worldview believe that humanity can control the forces of nature on a global scale and must do so. Those that believe that God is in charge of the universe, including this Earth, also believe that this intelligent God has a purpose in mind, just as we humans have a purpose for the things we make.
Thus while science and the scientific method may be neutral on these issues, the interpretation of the data that the scientific method produces is anything but neutral.
The use of a gun is only applicable if you are reasonably certain that it is either your life or your attacker's life. There will always be minorities. Only if the majority, or those in power, cannot live and let live and wishes to exterminate some members of a minority, is the use of a gun the last resort.
There are other alternative energy sources out there, but it is a question of cost. As the price of oil and other fossil fuel rises, these alternative sources of energy will definitely become more viable.
I believe that there is a God in control of the Universe, including the affairs of this Earth and that He has communicated certain truths concerning the future of mankind. One of these is that God himself, in the person of Jesus Christ will forcibly wrest away power from a coming, powerful, all world governmental system. He will then impose a stern, but just rule of peace on the entire planet Earth, where guns and violence will no longer exist.
Anyone who studies and understands these ancient writings from God can see the signs of increasing control that will culminate in an all controlling worldwide governing structure. The details of all this are still a bit fuzzy, but the overall trend for evermore centralized control over the worlds resources by fewer and fewer people, is unmistakable. Most humans erroneously think that we are the only ones inhabiting God's a vast universe.
It is a pity that the vast majority of humans on Earth today are totally unaware, willfully ignorant and unbelieving, but that will not change the final outcome. The good will triumph over evil in the end.
.....Thanks for displaying what is either ignorance or dishonesty by claiming uncertainty.....
Thanks for displaying your naive faith in science, which claims to be able to predict the climate, which is of course nothing more than long-term weather. Do you really believe that someone who cannot predict what will happen tomorrow is able to predict what will happen in 10, 20, 50, or 100 years from now? Do you really believe that the computer models upon which the so-called climate scientists base their dire predictions are any better than the computer models used by present-day weather forecasters? Hey, I have this bridge I want to sell you.
When those who hate don't response to love, then they will have to be resisted by force. About 2000 years ago, a person named Jesus Christ who claimed to be God, who came to proclaim God's love was crucified by the then conservatives of the time.
Because mankind rejected the Prince of peace, as well as the God of peace, war and hate have ruled and will rule until He returns. For now then, evil must be resisted by force if necessary. That is the sad state of affairs of humanity.
George Washington and his brave band of men had to resist the tyranny of the King of England by force. Some of his time also disagreed with that violent method of liberation from tyranny.
Those who try to kill you, for who you are or what you believe, not for what evil you have done, must be resisted by force if necessary. You are well within your rights to do so. Every living creature is entitled to fight for its own life and you are no exception. Wild creatures have been given various defense mechanisms to do this, but humans have been given a brain and the ability to construct weapons.
If need be these weapons maybe or must be used for defense, not attack. You may die in the attempt to defend your own life, but hopefully you will be able to take one of the evil attackers with you into death. If only one out of 100 Jews had been able to do this to their persecutors, the outcome of the Holocaust would have been quite different.
Well then, it is the hydrosphere that determines GLOBAL warming, not the atmosphere temperatures. How well does warmer air transfer its warmth to the oceans?
...there just isn't the carbon in circulation to sustain the plant life...
So now we are returning the long buried carbon into the air, so it can once again be used to turn the whole earth into a greenhouse! Why do people build greenhouses? Maybe turning the whole planet into a greenhouse isn't even so terrible.
...Really, trees aren't the only plants that undergo photosynthesis....
No Kidding. Anybody who has ever looked at a globe, realizes that the earth is mostly water. It is the photosynthesizing microscopic life in the oceans that absorb most of the CO2 and produce most of the O2, not the trees and other land plants. These contribute to be sure, but are not the dominant source. The OVERALL total global temperature of the oceans have not changed significantly in the whole time we have been able to measure them. The DISTRIBUTION of temperature has changed here and there, but overall the average temperature of the planet is remarkably stable.
Pure and unadulterated BS. It so happens that polar bears and penguins both are able to survive quite well, thank you, in warmer areas. The fact that they can be kept alive quite readily in zoos around the world is only one evidence of this. Life is amazingly adaptable, if the changes happen over generations of time.
Where did you get that marvelous crystal ball that tells you so precisely what WILL happen over centuries of time? The weather forecasters around here have a hard time predicting whether it WILL rain tomorrow. They couch their lack of skill in prognosticating in terms of probabilities, rather than trying to tell us what WILL happen to the weather.
Most plants used for food also do better in warmer environments. Since all animals, including people, depend on plants for food, animals will do better also on a warmer planet. Therefore, warming is not only beneficial for the "fuzzy" animals, but also for humanity. We may have to make a few adjustments. Those should be doable, if the warming takes place over several generations.
Wow, only once? I got bullied for several months every day after school! Then one day I finally exploded like a human nuclear device and nearly killed the bully by wrestling him to the ground and pounding him unconscious against the cement sidewalk. After that I had peace and the respect of all those that witnessed that event and those that were told what took place. The administration did not get involved, since it was not on school property.
That is why it is important that the populace be armed, so that "they" whoever they are that might want to come and "get" someone "they" don't like are highly likely to get a bullet in their head for trying that sort of thing. If enough of those that are "hated" by "them" are willing to blow the brains out first of one of "them" then "they" will have a hard time to find enough enforcers that are willing to take a chance to have a piece of lead in their head before they deposit lead in those so "hated".
...It has nothing to do with what a person is thinking....
The conscience is also part of thinking. It is your will that decides which thoughts get acted upon. People that do evil silence their conscience and deliberately decide to put these evil thoughts into action. People who do act out their evil thoughts, tell the voice of their conscience to shut up. If that is done often enough, the voice does just that, or at least is reduced to a whisper that is easy to ignore.
Slashdot Mirror
....is the ultimate authority...
Who or what is YOUR ultimate authority? Your intelligence? Your ability to reason? Your education? What others tell you that you already agree with? Everyone has some source of authority.
....my brain is in danger of falling out....
Given that you are not willing to even look at information contrary to your made up mind, is a sign that your mind is hermetically sealed shut.
....The Roman Catholic church already accepts that microevolution happens...
They would also likely accept that intelligent scientists are able to do things that don't happen randomly in nature. Here some intelligent scientists DESIGNED an experiment and found that bacteria can adapt to using some other nutrients than what they were used to, before the scientists manipulated the nutrient source. Boy, what a monumental discovery! These e-coli bacteria were STILl e-coli bacteria and will forever remain e-coli bacteria, even though under duress from the experiment, expressed their innate ability to thrive on some other nutrients.
....They probably did develop the ability to metabolize a number of other substances....
How would it be possible to differentiate whether these bacteria DEVELOPED an ability or simply switched on an ability already inherent but dormant until it was needed for survival? Most living things have preferred foods, but absent such favored fare, are able to survive on a surprising number of substitutes.
....the new evolution which they claim....
Of course occurred entirely at random, out in the wilds of nature someplace, without the involvement of intelligent scientists working diligently in their lab. Were there new bacteria or did the same old bacteria just exhibit an already inherent ability to use a different source of nutrition? Is it possible to discern that this "newly found" ability of these bacteria to thrive on a different nutrient was NOT already latent in the original ones they started with?
The newly skilled bacteria are still e-coli and not some other species, such as coccus or spirochete. So therefore, as usual, this is not a case of macro-evolution at all, but as always, only another example of the amazing adaptability of living things. Applying the word "evolution" to such adaptation doesn't justify the leap to claiming that birds came from reptiles or monkeys are the ancestors of people.
....things are going to be worse than they ever have been in world history,....
Indeed, Jesus does tell us exactly what you have been saying. He tells us that if He did not intervene, there would be no survivors of mankind. We live in a period of history where mankind has the capability to make himself and all life forms extinct. This has never been the case before. The wonderful truth is though, that Jesus gives hope of a better world and strength for those who trust him to remain faithful until he appears.
Christians are like beggars telling other beggars where to find bread, the bread of life, Jesus himself. Notice I said that Christians are LIKE beggars, not that they are. They are sons and daughters of the Most High, the ruler of the Universe.
As such, He has a different perspective of time, since He is not subject to time, because He created it. In spite of appearances to the contrary, the bottom line is that God is good, all good. He will achieve His goals despite the existence of evil and will at the end separate good from evil. While we are still here, living in or mortal bodies, He invites all humans to simply trust Him and rely on His power to hang in there and personally resist evil and eventually triumph over it.
The apostle Peter, writing to the Christians of his day, tells them not to be surprised by the fiery trials they are about to enter into. Emperor Nero, in power in Rome at the time, was at least as bad if not worse than Hitler. Christian history tells us that he covered Christians with tar and use them as living torches in his gardens. Compared to some who have ruled people throughout various periods in history, George W. Bush is rather benign.
Christians understand, or should, that this planet belongs to God. We humans did not make it and cannot control it despite our most fervent wishes. We have been commissioned by the owner of the property to properly take care of it for Him. That is why Christians, of all people should be environmentalists who endeavor to tread lightly on God's earth, gratefully using but not abusing the resources he has graciously put here for us.
....Millenia? We didn't really have the modern scientific method....
...)
The Bible is not a scientific textbook, but a compilation of things that the God of creation desires for us humans to know by faith. We live most of our lives by faith not sure knowledge. You don't know for sure that the wheels will stay on your car, but you have a reasonable faith that they will not fall off.
Unlike all other constellations visible to the naked eye, the stars of Orion are gravitationally linked. God asks Job if he is able to unlink them. God also mentions the Pleiades and asks Job if he is able to link them.
The phrase "stretched out the heavens" occurs a number of times in scripture in connection with a creative activity of God. Modern science tells us that indeed, the universe was stretched out from a single, a very compact point.
Long before scientists discovered the water cycle, King Solomon wrote about it in the Ecclesiastes 1:7. Is it possible that God might have communicated this truth to one of the wisest human beings ever?
(...These came from scientists, not priests...)
Most early scientists were Christians that believed that the universe and the earth were created by a rational intelligent God, that could therefore be explored and understood by men. Just as human laws come from human minds, so too the natural laws, the laws of physics also, come from a mind, the mind of God. We can walk on the moon because of the consistent predictable laws which God instituted for the entire universe.
(..There's also the fact we can see evolution occurring
All such so-called evolution examples I have ever come across are confined to the adaptability already inherent in all living organisms. Perhaps you can give me an example of where this is NOT the case.
(..Having radioactive decay rates change for no reason..)
Perhaps you can give me a reason why radioactive decay rates could not change over time. We have only known about radioactivity for a relative microsecond of time. In all of nature and there are few things as constant as change.
(..Why do you follow your particular god?...)
Because my God, Jesus Christ, is alive, where as all others are very much dead. My God has revealed secrets of the workings of our universe as part of the revelation of his will to mankind. The scientific truth of the Bible is not exhaustive, but very much in agreement with modern knowledge. My God is the only one that is not part of this creation but is outside of it, transcendent beyond time and space. He was willing to become a man and thereby enter his creation. He alone effectively deals with the root cause of all of men's problems, namely that which He calls sin. He calls not believing Him and what He has told us sin, because we are effectively calling the creator and ruler of the entire universe a liar. You will not go to hell because of the evil you have done and neither will I go to heaven because of the good I have done, but, whether we choose to believe or not believe what he has revealed about Himself and about ourselves. My God is the only deity that reaches down to man, rather than expecting men to reach up to him by whatever effort a person might be capable of. It all boils down to this:
John 3:16 For God so loved the world that He gave His only-begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have everlasting life.
These exclusive factors, as revealed in the holy Bible are some of my reasons for believing. You too can accept or reject His offer of eternal life. My prayer is that you will think about this seriously. Your simple prayer can be: "Dear God I don't even know if you exist, but if you do, I want to get to know you. Please help me with this."
....The atmosphere has a small heat capacity, but a large effect on the Earth's radiation balance.....
It may be true that through cloud cover and pollutants, the atmosphere would reflect varying amounts of sunlight. If this effect were significant for the long term, then the temperature of the oceans must change to track this. So far at least, the measurements of ocean temperatures are remarkably constant. Whatever "forcing" theorized to be taking place, is not having a significant effect on the oceans and therefore the Earth as a whole. The average temperature of a body is always determined by how much energy is gained and how much is lost. From actual measurements, this balance has not changed much for our planet as a whole, at least as far as we can tell over the short time we have been measuring.
...The secular interpretations of science have been getting the predictions right for several hundreds of years.....
Really? Can you give me at a few examples or even only one, of any such predictions have come true?
The oldest book in the Bible is the book of Job. Therein we are told that the Earth is spherical and suspended upon nothing. This is completely contrary to the prevailing scientific opinions that were considered politically correct, millennia ago, when this was written. In that same book we are told about ocean currents many centuries before Maury explored the seven seas, discovering and charging these. God talks to Job and gives him a science quiz which he flunked. Some of the questions God asked still have not been answered by any scientists even today.
Carbon dating and all other radioactive dating methods make the underlying assumption that these processes are invariant over large periods of time. This may or may not be a reasonable assumption, but it is an assumption, that is a belief nevertheless. There is no way to prove that these processes have always been what we measure them to be today. Science has made many what were at the time thought to be reasonable assumptions, but in the end these turned out to be wrong.
The reality is that evolutionists tend to split human creations and natural creation. No evolutionist would ever attribute a 747 airplane to any process other than that originating in a mind, but then turn around and try to convince themselves and others that a single cell, being far more complicated than any airplane or other human device, came about by spontaneous, natural processes NOT involving careful thought and planning.
Creationists on the other hand, do not split reality, but attribute human as well as natural creations to processes that first occurred in a mind, carefully thinking and planning a product or living creature.
Anytime a person admits even tentatively, that there might be a Creator God after all, may then begin to think about his or her relationship to this perhaps existing God. Because many people do not wish to go there, they will adhere to and rationalize a worldview to that specifically excludes God from their consciousness.
....but doesn't strongly control the total amount of warming which is ultimately experienced.....
If that statement were true, the Gulf Stream would not have much of an effect on the Northern European climate. However we know that it has a profound effect. It is the cold Alaskan current coming down from the north which determines the climate on most of the West Coast of North America. The atmospheric circulation patterns are determined by the oceans on a global scale. Mountains and land masses have only a much smaller secondary effect.
Compared to water, air has very little heat holding capacity and therefore affects climate only locally, not globally. We see this in the large daily temperature swings in the desert regions of the earth that are far removed from any large bodies of water. It is the moisture held in the atmosphere, not the air as such that determines weather patterns. Warm moist air can carry much more energy than equally warm dry air. Still compared to water itself, even the most moisture laden air contains only a small amount of heat energy compared to an equivalent volume of water.
Therefore, unless the temperature of the oceans change significantly, the overall temperature of the Earth will not vary by much. We humans and all other life forms can be very grateful that this is so.
....Interpretation of data does depend slightly on your worldview.....
Not slightly, but entirely. For every single piece of data that you can interpret as evidence for impersonal processes, a creationist can interpret that same data from the point of view of the existence of a Creator God.
I challenge you to come up with a single piece of scientific evidence, that cannot be interpreted either way.
....The problem with polar bears....
Do you really think that polar bears are any less agile at adapting to changes in their environment than their cousins in the lower 48? Bears of all kinds do rather well if they are not hunted excessively. They learn to take advantage of human created advantages, such as garbage dumps and cans rather quickly. We humans may refer that they may remain more "wild" but somehow we have a hard time getting that idea across to bears finding easy food in a garbage pile.
As for the weather, we know that, as all nature goes in cycles. Some of these cycles are relatively short, such as the 11 year solar cycle. Some are really long and because of that are hard for us short lived creatures to comprehend. Right now we are on a very slight warming trend. The average increase of the whole ocean temperature is so slight it is barely measurable.
We find pollen and other evidence at the bottom of ice cores from Greenland, that this part of the Earth was indeed green with the same sort of plant life that still grows in the eastern US. Ancient Viking accounts tell of bold voyages through the northern sea lanes of the western hemisphere. So yes, we are in a warming cycle, but your SUV has nothing to do with it. Still, it is a good idea to be kind to the Earth, since we are not the creator or owner thereof.
...that the scientific method is far more accurate...
The scientific method does give us, at least most of the time, data on what is happening in the real world. Through observation and experimentation we do get some evidence of what is going on around us in nature.
It is in the interpretation of this evidence in the believing of it, that differences arise. These differences arise mainly, because as human beings we have differences in our worldview. Everything we do and observe is filtered through the eyes of our worldview, which is of course shaped by our core beliefs.
The modern worldview is that we live in a universe shaped and controlled by impersonal forces of time and natural law. The far older worldview, extant over most of humanity's existence, it is that the universe was created by and is controlled by a transcendent, personal, intelligent God.
All evidence brought forth by the scientific method is filtered through either one or the other of these two worldviews. Those that have the naturalistic worldview believe that humanity can control the forces of nature on a global scale and must do so. Those that believe that God is in charge of the universe, including this Earth, also believe that this intelligent God has a purpose in mind, just as we humans have a purpose for the things we make.
Thus while science and the scientific method may be neutral on these issues, the interpretation of the data that the scientific method produces is anything but neutral.
....It is easy to fight with a gun.....
The use of a gun is only applicable if you are reasonably certain that it is either your life or your attacker's life. There will always be minorities. Only if the majority, or those in power, cannot live and let live and wishes to exterminate some members of a minority, is the use of a gun the last resort.
There are other alternative energy sources out there, but it is a question of cost. As the price of oil and other fossil fuel rises, these alternative sources of energy will definitely become more viable.
I believe that there is a God in control of the Universe, including the affairs of this Earth and that He has communicated certain truths concerning the future of mankind. One of these is that God himself, in the person of Jesus Christ will forcibly wrest away power from a coming, powerful, all world governmental system. He will then impose a stern, but just rule of peace on the entire planet Earth, where guns and violence will no longer exist.
Anyone who studies and understands these ancient writings from God can see the signs of increasing control that will culminate in an all controlling worldwide governing structure. The details of all this are still a bit fuzzy, but the overall trend for evermore centralized control over the worlds resources by fewer and fewer people, is unmistakable. Most humans erroneously think that we are the only ones inhabiting God's a vast universe.
It is a pity that the vast majority of humans on Earth today are totally unaware, willfully ignorant and unbelieving, but that will not change the final outcome. The good will triumph over evil in the end.
.....Thanks for displaying what is either ignorance or dishonesty by claiming uncertainty.....
Thanks for displaying your naive faith in science, which claims to be able to predict the climate, which is of course nothing more than long-term weather. Do you really believe that someone who cannot predict what will happen tomorrow is able to predict what will happen in 10, 20, 50, or 100 years from now? Do you really believe that the computer models upon which the so-called climate scientists base their dire predictions are any better than the computer models used by present-day weather forecasters? Hey, I have this bridge I want to sell you.
.....How about we get rid of the hate first?....
When those who hate don't response to love, then they will have to be resisted by force. About 2000 years ago, a person named Jesus Christ who claimed to be God, who came to proclaim God's love was crucified by the then conservatives of the time.
Because mankind rejected the Prince of peace, as well as the God of peace, war and hate have ruled and will rule until He returns. For now then, evil must be resisted by force if necessary. That is the sad state of affairs of humanity.
George Washington and his brave band of men had to resist the tyranny of the King of England by force. Some of his time also disagreed with that violent method of liberation from tyranny.
Those who try to kill you, for who you are or what you believe, not for what evil you have done, must be resisted by force if necessary. You are well within your rights to do so. Every living creature is entitled to fight for its own life and you are no exception. Wild creatures have been given various defense mechanisms to do this, but humans have been given a brain and the ability to construct weapons.
If need be these weapons maybe or must be used for defense, not attack. You may die in the attempt to defend your own life, but hopefully you will be able to take one of the evil attackers with you into death. If only one out of 100 Jews had been able to do this to their persecutors, the outcome of the Holocaust would have been quite different.
Well then, it is the hydrosphere that determines GLOBAL warming, not the atmosphere temperatures. How well does warmer air transfer its warmth to the oceans?
....we have Greenland....
Indeed, has it ever occurred to anyone WHY it is still called GREENland, even though today it is largely covered with ice, being anything BUT green?
...there just isn't the carbon in circulation to sustain the plant life ...
So now we are returning the long buried carbon into the air, so it can once again be used to turn the whole earth into a greenhouse! Why do people build greenhouses? Maybe turning the whole planet into a greenhouse isn't even so terrible.
...Really, trees aren't the only plants that undergo photosynthesis....
No Kidding. Anybody who has ever looked at a globe, realizes that the earth is mostly water. It is the photosynthesizing microscopic life in the oceans that absorb most of the CO2 and produce most of the O2, not the trees and other land plants. These contribute to be sure, but are not the dominant source. The OVERALL total global temperature of the oceans have not changed significantly in the whole time we have been able to measure them. The DISTRIBUTION of temperature has changed here and there, but overall the average temperature of the planet is remarkably stable.
....many animals depend on icy habitats....
Pure and unadulterated BS. It so happens that polar bears and penguins both are able to survive quite well, thank you, in warmer areas. The fact that they can be kept alive quite readily in zoos around the world is only one evidence of this. Life is amazingly adaptable, if the changes happen over generations of time.
Where did you get that marvelous crystal ball that tells you so precisely what WILL happen over centuries of time? The weather forecasters around here have a hard time predicting whether it WILL rain tomorrow. They couch their lack of skill in prognosticating in terms of probabilities, rather than trying to tell us what WILL happen to the weather.
....concerns such as food production....
Most plants used for food also do better in warmer environments. Since all animals, including people, depend on plants for food, animals will do better also on a warmer planet. Therefore, warming is not only beneficial for the "fuzzy" animals, but also for humanity. We may have to make a few adjustments. Those should be doable, if the warming takes place over several generations.
...I got bullied once...
Wow, only once? I got bullied for several months every day after school! Then one day I finally exploded like a human nuclear device and nearly killed the bully by wrestling him to the ground and pounding him unconscious against the cement sidewalk. After that I had peace and the respect of all those that witnessed that event and those that were told what took place. The administration did not get involved, since it was not on school property.
.....or some other group they hate ....
That is why it is important that the populace be armed, so that "they" whoever they are that might want to come and "get" someone "they" don't like are highly likely to get a bullet in their head for trying that sort of thing. If enough of those that are "hated" by "them" are willing to blow the brains out first of one of "them" then "they" will have a hard time to find enough enforcers that are willing to take a chance to have a piece of lead in their head before they deposit lead in those so "hated".
...It has nothing to do with what a person is thinking....
The conscience is also part of thinking. It is your will that decides which thoughts get acted upon. People that do evil silence their conscience and deliberately decide to put these evil thoughts into action. People who do act out their evil thoughts, tell the voice of their conscience to shut up. If that is done often enough, the voice does just that, or at least is reduced to a whisper that is easy to ignore.