But is Suez not a continuity? What measure makes it too short? Is the border between North America and South America Panama City? Darien? Somewhere else? Not forgetting that some people consider America to be a single continent.
A Continent is a landmass, not a slightly shallower section of ocean.
Except that we've redefined the term "continent" many times already. In common parlance, "continent" in French means mainland, and in the UK, that definition survives in the tendency to refer to "mainland Europe" as "the continent". The original Latin root means continuing/continuous, and as there is no surface discontinuity between Europe, Asia and Africa, the notion of "continent" as we understand it was completely arbitrary, right up until the discovery of plate tectonics. Even then, people have been reluctant to follow plate tectonics to its logical conclusion -- note how the Indian plate is referred to as a "subcontinent" even though it's a distinct plate from Asia. It's also worth noting that various languages have different numbers of continents, each making the distinction on different geographical, geological, ethnic or political bases.
They don't even have alpha males in the wild. That dynamic only appears in wolves in captivity, in the wild they simply don't behave in an alpha/beta pattern.
And besides, it's fucking wolves.
But primates do. So basically dogs are cool, and apes are dicks.
You know what the result of every single "internal investigation" is, right? "No evidence of wrongdoing".
Uber's entire schtick is a PR charade to cast aspersions on a woman for pointing out their misogynistic culture.
Fun fact: all of the boys here loudly whining about "evidence" will take the results of Uber's "internal investigation" completely at face value despite having zero proof of their own.
The immediate problem for Uber is compounded by having Arianna Huffington on the board. It would be a major loss of face to her to be associated with a coverup on this.
Illegal why? This is not a court case, she has not sued anybody.
Exactly -- this is not a court case. She gained all that material during the course of her employment, and therefore does not have ownership of the IP. She is allowed to release it to court, but in all likelihood publishing it would technically be a breach of copyright, and that's where the story would get twisted.
I'm not saying it happened, I'm just saying that if Uber aren't denying it yet, I can't see any justification for dismissing the whole thing just because she doesn't print the evidence in public.
Even if you disagree that propositioning perfect strangers who you are line manager for is poor behaviour, I'm sure you'll understand that telling someone they'll get a bad performance review for objecting to being propositioned is just ridiculous.
Yup. And the observation of primates in the wild is that you can get to be an alpha male by bullying and raping, but you won't stay at the top long. Alpha males who get their position through cooperation with females can hold their throne into a good old age, well beyond the age where they'd be able to defend their territory in a straight fight.
At the very least, it's pretty one-sided to be in an open relationship when your other half has lots of opportunities to meet other people but you're working all hours for a poorly organised mega-sized startup. Perhaps it worked fine for them before he started at Uber -- I wouldn't want an open relationship, but I won't judge him for it. But what I will judge him for is unprofessional conduct. If he has a problem with how his personal life is going, that's not something he should be bringing to work.
No, I mean that governments inevitably interfere with the market system. That's about the same minimal level of deviation from an ideal that communism's defenders invoke to say that true communism has never really been tried.
Philosophical communism is generally defined as being anti-statist, so state socialism like the USSR isn't really "communism" at all, even leaving aside the question of corruption at the state level.
We were much closer to true capitalism a couple of hundred years ago now, when "penny pies" sold in the street were stuffed with sawdust to try to get round the rising cost of food; when landowners were free to kick people tenants off their land to make way for sheep; when people were working seven days a week for wages that weren't enough to feed the family; when people with no other wage were condemned to the "poorhouse"; and when the only detriment to a factory for crushing a child worker to death was the loss of the carpet that was stained from the child's blood and gore.
The whole reason communist thought arose was as a reaction to the excesses of bourgeois capitalism (the French revolution was a bourgeois-democratic revolution, and the bourgeoisie are damn near the dictionary definition of capitalists).
Governments stepped in on food safety; trade unions stood up for workers rights (and the weekend break); etc.
Eventually, we got to the stage where children all go to school instead of work, the unemployed aren't herded into forced labour camps. All good stuff.
So yes, capitalism has been tried pretty much as far as it could.
The GP isn't crusading for justice, he's simply responding to the GGPs willful ignorance. The GGP isn't saying "Fowler lied", he's just ignoring what she wrote, and responding to a story in his own head.
There is NO, Zero, Zip, NADA Shred, of evidence provided in TFA.... we should _all_ be demanding and waiting for evidence prior to making assumptions. "Hands up don't shoot", Duke Lacrosse, and countless other hoaxes have ruined plenty of lives.
There is a difference between treating a complaint as "credible" and treating it as "factual". My problem here isn't that people are doubting the allegations, but that they're outright dismissing the credibility of them. They should be taken seriously, and they should be investigated, and yes, no-one should be pronouncing judgement without access to the full facts.
However, when you talk about false accusations that have ruined lives, you are presumably talking about people who named other people in their accusations, which Fowler didn't do. The only life on the line here is her own, and as someone whose career is on the rise, she has a lot to lose. No doubt there's been a spike in orders for her book (currently a best-seller on Amazon) and so there's the possibility she's doing this for short-term gain, but the damage to her reputation would be inestimable if this turned out to be false, and she would appear to be an intelligent enough person that she wouldn't risk throwing away an entire career this early on just to increase sales for a week or two.
Furthermore, Uber is seeing that mixing unmarried 20-something males with unmarried 20-something females causes problems
{citation needed}. Because you're clearly talking about something other than TFA, which refers to a male in a long-term relationship mixing with a female the length of whose CV (studied at 3 universities, worked at at least 5 companies) suggests she may be in her 30s.
The bullshit is when you extrapolate these assholes to somehow mean the rest of the staff.
We're not supposed to generalize against all Muslims, but somehow when one man does a shitty thing ALL MEN deserve to be reprimanded. That's a great way to create animosity. Force a man to be punished for something he didn't do.
And reading through this entire thread and many of the comments on TFA, I have found a sum total of zero (0) people suggesting that all men should be blamed for this. Except the straw one in your post.
As much as generic screennames want to post about how sexism is real in tech, most women in tech who are not a part of the cult debunk the sexism claims really quick. They are, of course, usually immediately assaulted by the cult the moment they do.
Experience differs by company. The fact that some women never experience it doesn't mean that no women do.
I think you've misunderstood what SJW means -- it means someone who disagrees with the person using the term SJW on what is reasonable behaviour towards others.
I must be incredibly old-fashioned to think that getting to know someone, talking, finding common interests etc. should precede "Hey, wanna fuck me? My girlfriend is okay with it."
Except that in an open relationship, I imagine getting to know someone you're sleeping with is probably not a good idea. Too many common interests with the bit on the side can lead to an unplanned change in relationship status.
This, of course, doesn't excuse the guy -- it just makes it all the worse.
FD: I would never be confused with a person who has movie-star good looks, but I've been hit on in the work place by coworkers, often subordinate employees.
Subordinates hitting on superordinates is not as much of a problem, because the one doing the pursuing isn't in a position of power.
After Ellen Pao, UNLV, Duke LaCrosse, and countless false police reports (resulting in legal action) about discrimination I'm waiting for evidence. Chat logs, screen shots, and email logs should be enough to prove the case. TFA reports no such evidence.
Yes, allegedly, but the allegations are credible when the blogger claims to have all that evidence -- evidence which she would have no legal right to simply publish, but she would have a right to use in presenting her case in a court of law. Uber have access to enough information to make a quick analysis of whether the complaint is credible or not. If they didn't think it was credible (and there is a huge gap between "credible" and "definitely true") they would have called it baseless in their first public statement.
So I'm not saying you should believe it uncritically, but if Uber aren't in a position to deny it at present, I don't think anyone with less information on the case should be doing so on their behalf.
I agree that the victim should escalate early and often for their own protection and documentation, but the HR person (if they were being honest) did the right thing. If we went around firing everyone for the first inappropriate thing they ever did the manpower churn itself would be a viable alternative power source.
A) the blog claims the author has testimony that the HR person was not being honest.
B) in no world is it "the right thing" to tell an employee that making a complaint of sexual harassment will result in a poorer performance review, and that that is OK. Particularly not when the claim of sexual harassment is uncontested.
Slashdot Mirror
But is Suez not a continuity? What measure makes it too short? Is the border between North America and South America Panama City? Darien? Somewhere else? Not forgetting that some people consider America to be a single continent.
A Continent is a landmass, not a slightly shallower section of ocean.
Except that we've redefined the term "continent" many times already. In common parlance, "continent" in French means mainland, and in the UK, that definition survives in the tendency to refer to "mainland Europe" as "the continent". The original Latin root means continuing/continuous, and as there is no surface discontinuity between Europe, Asia and Africa, the notion of "continent" as we understand it was completely arbitrary, right up until the discovery of plate tectonics. Even then, people have been reluctant to follow plate tectonics to its logical conclusion -- note how the Indian plate is referred to as a "subcontinent" even though it's a distinct plate from Asia. It's also worth noting that various languages have different numbers of continents, each making the distinction on different geographical, geological, ethnic or political bases.
They don't even have alpha males in the wild. That dynamic only appears in wolves in captivity, in the wild they simply don't behave in an alpha/beta pattern.
And besides, it's fucking wolves.
But primates do. So basically dogs are cool, and apes are dicks.
Also, fucking wolves is a dangerous perversion.
Hahahahahaha.
You know what the result of every single "internal investigation" is, right? "No evidence of wrongdoing".
Uber's entire schtick is a PR charade to cast aspersions on a woman for pointing out their misogynistic culture.
Fun fact: all of the boys here loudly whining about "evidence" will take the results of Uber's "internal investigation" completely at face value despite having zero proof of their own.
The immediate problem for Uber is compounded by having Arianna Huffington on the board. It would be a major loss of face to her to be associated with a coverup on this.
Illegal why? This is not a court case, she has not sued anybody.
Exactly -- this is not a court case. She gained all that material during the course of her employment, and therefore does not have ownership of the IP. She is allowed to release it to court, but in all likelihood publishing it would technically be a breach of copyright, and that's where the story would get twisted.
I'm not saying it happened, I'm just saying that if Uber aren't denying it yet, I can't see any justification for dismissing the whole thing just because she doesn't print the evidence in public.
Even if you disagree that propositioning perfect strangers who you are line manager for is poor behaviour, I'm sure you'll understand that telling someone they'll get a bad performance review for objecting to being propositioned is just ridiculous.
Mumble mumble "disruptive" mumble mutter.
Yup. And the observation of primates in the wild is that you can get to be an alpha male by bullying and raping, but you won't stay at the top long. Alpha males who get their position through cooperation with females can hold their throne into a good old age, well beyond the age where they'd be able to defend their territory in a straight fight.
At the very least, it's pretty one-sided to be in an open relationship when your other half has lots of opportunities to meet other people but you're working all hours for a poorly organised mega-sized startup. Perhaps it worked fine for them before he started at Uber -- I wouldn't want an open relationship, but I won't judge him for it. But what I will judge him for is unprofessional conduct. If he has a problem with how his personal life is going, that's not something he should be bringing to work.
Because machismo isn't a left-wing right-wing thing. People who think they're Superman think everyone's their Lois Lane.
You mock, but remember the parable of the talents.
No, I mean that governments inevitably interfere with the market system. That's about the same minimal level of deviation from an ideal that communism's defenders invoke to say that true communism has never really been tried.
Philosophical communism is generally defined as being anti-statist, so state socialism like the USSR isn't really "communism" at all, even leaving aside the question of corruption at the state level.
We were much closer to true capitalism a couple of hundred years ago now, when "penny pies" sold in the street were stuffed with sawdust to try to get round the rising cost of food; when landowners were free to kick people tenants off their land to make way for sheep; when people were working seven days a week for wages that weren't enough to feed the family; when people with no other wage were condemned to the "poorhouse"; and when the only detriment to a factory for crushing a child worker to death was the loss of the carpet that was stained from the child's blood and gore.
The whole reason communist thought arose was as a reaction to the excesses of bourgeois capitalism (the French revolution was a bourgeois-democratic revolution, and the bourgeoisie are damn near the dictionary definition of capitalists).
Governments stepped in on food safety; trade unions stood up for workers rights (and the weekend break); etc.
Eventually, we got to the stage where children all go to school instead of work, the unemployed aren't herded into forced labour camps. All good stuff.
So yes, capitalism has been tried pretty much as far as it could.
The GP isn't crusading for justice, he's simply responding to the GGPs willful ignorance. The GGP isn't saying "Fowler lied", he's just ignoring what she wrote, and responding to a story in his own head.
There is NO, Zero, Zip, NADA Shred, of evidence provided in TFA. ... we should _all_ be demanding and waiting for evidence prior to making assumptions. "Hands up don't shoot", Duke Lacrosse, and countless other hoaxes have ruined plenty of lives.
There is a difference between treating a complaint as "credible" and treating it as "factual". My problem here isn't that people are doubting the allegations, but that they're outright dismissing the credibility of them. They should be taken seriously, and they should be investigated, and yes, no-one should be pronouncing judgement without access to the full facts.
However, when you talk about false accusations that have ruined lives, you are presumably talking about people who named other people in their accusations, which Fowler didn't do. The only life on the line here is her own, and as someone whose career is on the rise, she has a lot to lose. No doubt there's been a spike in orders for her book (currently a best-seller on Amazon) and so there's the possibility she's doing this for short-term gain, but the damage to her reputation would be inestimable if this turned out to be false, and she would appear to be an intelligent enough person that she wouldn't risk throwing away an entire career this early on just to increase sales for a week or two.
When women do it, they're 'empowered,' and criticism of that 'empowerment' is 'sexism.'
{citation needed}
Furthermore, Uber is seeing that mixing unmarried 20-something males with unmarried 20-something females causes problems
{citation needed}. Because you're clearly talking about something other than TFA, which refers to a male in a long-term relationship mixing with a female the length of whose CV (studied at 3 universities, worked at at least 5 companies) suggests she may be in her 30s.
The bullshit is when you extrapolate these assholes to somehow mean the rest of the staff.
We're not supposed to generalize against all Muslims, but somehow when one man does a shitty thing ALL MEN deserve to be reprimanded. That's a great way to create animosity. Force a man to be punished for something he didn't do.
And reading through this entire thread and many of the comments on TFA, I have found a sum total of zero (0) people suggesting that all men should be blamed for this. Except the straw one in your post.
As much as generic screennames want to post about how sexism is real in tech, most women in tech who are not a part of the cult debunk the sexism claims really quick. They are, of course, usually immediately assaulted by the cult the moment they do.
Experience differs by company. The fact that some women never experience it doesn't mean that no women do.
Sorry but I'm no SJW.
I think you've misunderstood what SJW means -- it means someone who disagrees with the person using the term SJW on what is reasonable behaviour towards others.
I must be incredibly old-fashioned to think that getting to know someone, talking, finding common interests etc. should precede "Hey, wanna fuck me? My girlfriend is okay with it."
Except that in an open relationship, I imagine getting to know someone you're sleeping with is probably not a good idea. Too many common interests with the bit on the side can lead to an unplanned change in relationship status.
This, of course, doesn't excuse the guy -- it just makes it all the worse.
FD: I would never be confused with a person who has movie-star good looks, but I've been hit on in the work place by coworkers, often subordinate employees.
Subordinates hitting on superordinates is not as much of a problem, because the one doing the pursuing isn't in a position of power.
The article doesn't demonstrate anything as there is no evidence to back up any of her claims.
You realise it would be illegal for her to just publish on the internet all the material she gathered during the course of her employment, don't you?
Allegedly.
After Ellen Pao, UNLV, Duke LaCrosse, and countless false police reports (resulting in legal action) about discrimination I'm waiting for evidence. Chat logs, screen shots, and email logs should be enough to prove the case. TFA reports no such evidence.
Yes, allegedly, but the allegations are credible when the blogger claims to have all that evidence -- evidence which she would have no legal right to simply publish, but she would have a right to use in presenting her case in a court of law. Uber have access to enough information to make a quick analysis of whether the complaint is credible or not. If they didn't think it was credible (and there is a huge gap between "credible" and "definitely true") they would have called it baseless in their first public statement.
So I'm not saying you should believe it uncritically, but if Uber aren't in a position to deny it at present, I don't think anyone with less information on the case should be doing so on their behalf.
I agree that the victim should escalate early and often for their own protection and documentation, but the HR person (if they were being honest) did the right thing. If we went around firing everyone for the first inappropriate thing they ever did the manpower churn itself would be a viable alternative power source.
A) the blog claims the author has testimony that the HR person was not being honest.
B) in no world is it "the right thing" to tell an employee that making a complaint of sexual harassment will result in a poorer performance review, and that that is OK. Particularly not when the claim of sexual harassment is uncontested.