SCSI raid using old (but fast) hot overconsumptive drives, 9 of them on 3 controllers, one scsi bus per drive. It was the machine I could plug any of my (40+) scsi drives into and just go. And it was fast.
I simply put everything I have into DVD instead. Turns out I didn't need all those drives *at once*.
"i> For example, I used to run the vent fan on my greenhouse based on solar power. When the sun went down or when it was cloudy (i.e., when you didn't want the fan running), it'd stop"
Put 4 mirrors around it to concentrate the sunlight. I have a solar AA battery charger that only works on days, but by using one big mirror I can jack the output 3x (as measured) and it works on cloudy days now. This also boosts the output of my big solar panels, which just got dedployed. Currentlyu I'm on a hunt for a lot of mirrors. Like, 50 of them.
"their's my catch. I started doing the same, and learned that charging a battery (even if it were free), then using that energy, costs more than just using the grid power. Thats because the battery's either costs enough that depreciation is more than the energy they serve, then they need replaced every 6 months. Or Lead acid battery's which lose 40% of your energy into heat, and I either have to cool them (keep inside) or they fail, and create acid fumes, and all kinds of nasty side effect."
I hear you and thanks for the heads up.
Couple of things - I have a cistern that's cool year round.
SLA (Sealed lead acid) batteries don't vent H2. Granted their not as powerful and don't last along but they're safe to burfy inside furniture.
The bigger anbd more expensive the battery the longer they'll last. I judt got 10 years our of an Optima despite abusing it sevrely beyond any reasonable expectation the manufacturor might have had running a big diesel. Typically 5 years any any battery will cak in this application.
No, "ground source geothermal" is what you want. People use it up here and heat their homes for $75/mo in winter (when it's usually $1500/mo to heat anything up here in Jan and Feb). It's not mainstream yet but it's around in small numbers. The straw bale poeple use it almost exclusively up here.
I looked at the dewalt too. The replacement battery packs are $200. Rigid battery packs are $100. The rigid stuff has a lifetime warrenty (apparently even on the battery). The contractor I talked to said get the Rigid not the DeWaltso I did and got mine for $129. I don't really care if that's cheap or not, this is probably the finest tool I've ever purchased. It reeks Mercedes-like overengineered quality and is quite literally scary powerful.
The blacdk and decker stuff is utter consumer crap by comparison, BUT the VPX system has these interesting battery modules yhou can slip in and out of several devices - flashlight, saw, drill. "Router, fishtank lights and laptop" not yet, but...
"If the duty cycle is 50% then that rectangle is a square."
Yeah. Try running a microwave from a cheap generator. The clock runs 10X too fast and it never heats up.
I'm a computer programmwer not a power engineer. I make things red or blue on the screen or bold or italic and don't know power factor from Max Factor but I'm guessing non-sinusoidal output here.
"get a collection of lead acid batteries, connect them to the solar/wind generator"
The problem with this is, in a battery array, should one battery go south you can never replace that specific battery with one that has the identical (as a function of age) sharge and discharge characteristics. So your choices are: 1) you have one less battry now, 2) use one BIG battery if you want a centralized system (a rebuilt 24V 800 A/hr 1500LB battery can be had for $1400 up here) or 3) use a number of small autonomous systems - one to drive your computers, one for your lights, one for your fishtanks what have you. This is what I'm doing and it's a nice way to ease into it. You can buy it in bits and pieces.
Apparantly there wee several power failures here last night in the big storm. I had no idea, I was on the computer and watching movies all night. The sun never experiences power failures.
Also, if you're prepared to just "start from scratch" and reduce your expectations you might find, like I did, that the system will pay for itself in 6 months not the 6 years as is usual. No I don't have an electric dryer any more. Somehow life goes on.
"Because I really want to pay $80 for the LED equivalent of a 40 watt bulb. "
It's actially $8 inn LED's to replace a 40W builb. And you get 100,000 hours out of it.
If you can flip on a wall switch and the lights come on this is probably "who cares" material. But if you're already off grid, it's a big deal.
Somewhere between a year ago and now LED lighting your house (and err, fishtanks, like 35 of them) with LED's became feasable.
3 rooms down, 13 to go...
LED houselinghting is very different from conventional. They go on and off automatically, you can leave them on and who cares the sun powers them, you can remote control them, you can put them anywhere. Look on ebay for led lightingh gadgets then wire a bunch into a solar panel and a battery and that's lighting for one room.
White LED's have come a long way and some are actually Whitwe and not blusish. Plus there'w warm white LED's now too tha come very close to beeing so close to non-LED light you can tell they're LEDs. TGhe holy grail: LED lighting with the color error of an incandescent bulb:-)
"if you have say three LEDs and they consume 3 volts each, you'll need 9 volts to power them to get full light output "
And if yoiu do 4 you can run then off a car battery. Pretty much forever.
Plus, don't give up on dead car batteries. I have a 10 year old Optima (gel cel spiral wound deep cycle) that I killed this February starting my diesel. Although it was $180 new, 10 years is unprecedented for a battery, especially in a diesel,. But ow it's dead. It puts out a steady 9V nop matter how much you charge it. So it's useless for cars or anything 12V.
But it'll run 1000 hi pwer LED's for about a week, and I can charge it from the sun in under half a day. And it would have got thrown out.
Ask around golf coursds around this time of year. TGypically they may renew their golf cart bartteries and if you ask they may give you the old ones as they just dump them - thwy pay to recycle them actually.
There's a fella near here that got 6 free, a small generator and hge lives off grid for $50/mo in electricy fro a generator he runs once a week.
"I should have probably elaborated a bit more. My point was, which I was admittedly unclear about, that since this is a hobbyist discussion, it would be a good idea to start small. Clock radios, electric toothbrush, etc... Once you've got that under control, use what you've learned from the experience to move on to the next level."
That's what I did. Butg once I got the laptop and the satellite working off solar the rest became suddenly far less important. Har.
Imagine if everybody in America ran just once device off solar power this year. And one the next year. The reduced power consumption and boost to the solar industry could only yield good things.
If you want to run just your laptiop say, you need about 20-40 Ahrs of battery which is under $200 new and about 60W of panels which is under $400, a $50 invertrer and a $29 charge controller. Now your laptop works forever, period. The batteries should last a very long time as they're not even breathing hard.
There are $99 6V deep cycle Exide industrial batteries at crappy tire. They're a good deal. The next step up really is the 800 Ahr 1500LB one that's 24V but that's overkill for most laptops.
The $99 15W panels at crappy tire are an extremely attractive price per watt. Forget tghe bigger sizes, get lots of these. Plus the bigger ones come with a terminal block and no wires. The terminal block is now outdated in soilar panels. The 15W ones come with 5 cabales, murettes, screwes... all this crap makes a difference when you're hooking up a number of them. Plus the 5 cables let you play all sorts of games.
Hot tip: use mirrors to concentrate light - even on cloudy days. I've observed up to a 3X iuncreas in power by adding mirrors.
Yes, you can overclock solar cells. No go get one and start playing dammit.
Alternative energy refigeration is indeed a pain on solar because of the high wattage and even higher surge of the compressor.
Of course in Canada this is easily solved. Turn your heat off until June, then you get a nice a and food safe maximum of 40F inside the house.
If/when it warms up I plan on doing this: I have a huge kitchen as this house was once a small hotel. I'm gonna line a part of the kitchen with straw bales and styrofoam then see how many thermoelectric cooler mechanisms it takes to keep it at 40F. Plus I'm finally gonna use that cool looking glass frointed new pepsi cooler I found in the barn when I moved here. If that doesn't work I may just use it as an icebox just like they did when this place was built.
"given that corded tend to be more powerful, dont need charged, and and are much much cheaper"
They're cheaper but that's it. You need to try a good lithium ion drill if you think the corded ones are more powerful.
As for charging, you can do a whole deck in once charge. These things aren't ands don't behave like the $19 ones your dad keeps buyig on sale.
As my frandmother said "Quality is the only economy". The Ridig one has a lifetime warrenty but looks like it'll never need it; it reallyh is built that well. It's made in China to boot, further proof that to make what they're told (and well) and not everyuthing that coems out of china is cheap crap.
I used to think cordless drills were gutless comnpared corded ones till I got a Rigid Lithum drill. It's so powerful I'm pretty certain it'll start a Tohyota. I KNOW it will start a small gas motor. In 38 degree weather. Which takes minutes.
I have a bunch of drils and the Lithium one is by far the most powerful.
I have NiCad and NiMh drills too. Fairly uselss. They take forever to charge and don't last long, wear out quickly and you cannot buy replacement power packs (or buy them easily, yes you can buy tabbed cells and hack them...)
With solar you want to avoind anything with a cord. So cordless it is. And if you ever watched an ameter when a lithium drill charges you'd know they draw power 80 - 90 - 100 - 90 - 80 - 0 - 0 - 0 - 0 (repeat) for about 10 minutges till they're charges; but need a 400 watt inverter. Once they're dione charging they draw 0 current.
Lithium ion batteryh chargers are very very different from Nicad or NiMh which do indeed always draw some current.
Hot tip: although AA Li ion cells are too dangerous for "us" to use (if some idiot puts one in a regular AA charger, they explode. If they discharge too much, they explode) but China inc has no such qualms. If you look carefully you can find, in China, Li Ion cells in any size and shape. Even the $500 external mac laptop battery is, I think an $8 part insuide from China.
Oh, oh, so you want to spend $2000 to share wires and have it be a hybrid grid/solar system. Well, you could do that.
Not sure why though. It's a lot easier bring the solar up by itself; just keep addig panels and bateries and bit by but you'll be using tghe grid less.
Your problem is you use too much power. I had the same problem and just unplugged or rplaced everything that was overconsumptive. 700W desktop tower goes away in favouir of 45W laptop. Cordless drill that takes hours to recharge is replaced by a fast charginbh lithium ionh one. etc.
I cut my power to 1/4 doing this. THEN went solar. Your 30K cost is now 7K.
The OP doesbn't need a grid tie invertor. That's for selling excess power back to the power company.
I run a sat receiver by having it plugged into a ups with a ubiquitous 7Ah SLA battery, fully charged, with two 30W solar panels hooked up directly to the battery. It just sits there and works.
I have lots of solar panels, i just hook them up in lotrs of little autonomous systems than do one thing. Free, and forver (or until some part beaks or the sun stop shining).
I've got a bunch of these setups for various things with various batteries and inverters.
I can't for the life of my see how "small scale" and "grid tie" relate at all.
If you had an 18Kw hydro plant I could see it but...
Yeah, if I'm the owner of a company and not just some "Slash and Burn" CEO, I wouldn't want to have my core assets hostage to some third party _company_."
Um, folks? All this 3000K and 6000K talk does not mean temperature, it's the color of the light. 5000K is white, or at least the color of equitorial sunlight at noon in the equator, 2700k is tellowish soft light, 7500K is the color of noon in Norway.
It's the color of a body of iron at those temperatures in Kelvin. This has nothing to do with the temperature of the bulb, that is a 7500 degree Kelvin 4 foot fluorescent bulb may be 7500K *in color* but it's barely 80 degrees F in operation. Although degrees Kelvin measures heat like Celsius and Farenheight, it also means "color" becaise of the black body of iron thing.
I'm guessing this lamp is hot but it aint in the thousands of degreesm kelvin or otherwise althouhg I'm quite sure it's a 6000K bulk or whatever.
140 lumens per watt is good but not earth shattering - this is what (high pressure) sodium lamps do already - and are the most efficient bulbs mankind makes. So this is as good but no better than the best we have now. What is good about it is it's small, most plasma lamps aren't.
I'd be interested in knowing what happens to the amount of light per watt as the bulb is made smaller and larger.
Sadly TFV did bad^H^H^Hhorrible things to my machine and there was no FA to read but I'm sure if it's really feasable I'll hear about it soon enough. Not like with those sulfur microwave lamps from a few years back that had similar claims.
The kind of poeple you want making decisions about the Internet are Internet experts. Not random policy wonks that took Wal Marts shoe sales over the top or negotiated a grain contract.
Slashdot Mirror
" What did you have in a tower that drew 700 watts?"
This one: http://rs79.vrx.net/works/photoblog/2005/Sep/15/DSCF0007s.jpg
SCSI raid using old (but fast) hot overconsumptive drives, 9 of them on 3 controllers, one scsi bus per drive. It was the machine I could plug any of my (40+) scsi drives into and just go. And it was fast.
I simply put everything I have into DVD instead. Turns out I didn't need all those drives *at once*.
"i> For example, I used to run the vent fan on my greenhouse based on solar power. When the sun went down or when it was cloudy (i.e., when you didn't want the fan running), it'd stop"
Put 4 mirrors around it to concentrate the sunlight. I have a solar AA battery charger that only works on days, but by using one big mirror I can jack the output 3x (as measured) and it works on cloudy days now. This also boosts the output of my big solar panels, which just got dedployed. Currentlyu I'm on a hunt for a lot of mirrors. Like, 50 of them.
"their's my catch. I started doing the same, and learned that charging a battery (even if it were free), then using that energy, costs more than just using the grid power. Thats because the battery's either costs enough that depreciation is more than the energy they serve, then they need replaced every 6 months. Or Lead acid battery's which lose 40% of your energy into heat, and I either have to cool them (keep inside) or they fail, and create acid fumes, and all kinds of nasty side effect."
I hear you and thanks for the heads up.
Couple of things - I have a cistern that's cool year round.
SLA (Sealed lead acid) batteries don't vent H2. Granted their not as powerful and don't last along but they're safe to burfy inside furniture.
The bigger anbd more expensive the battery the longer they'll last. I judt got 10 years our of an Optima despite abusing it sevrely beyond any reasonable expectation the manufacturor might have had running a big diesel. Typically 5 years any any battery will cak in this application.
No, "ground source geothermal" is what you want. People use it up here and heat their homes for $75/mo in winter (when it's usually $1500/mo to heat anything up here in Jan and Feb). It's not mainstream yet but it's around in small numbers. The straw bale poeple use it almost exclusively up here.
" Grants? From who and how? Link? "
http://www.genproenergy.com/skystream_wind_turbine.html
I looked at the dewalt too. The replacement battery packs are $200. Rigid battery packs are $100. The rigid stuff has a lifetime warrenty (apparently even on the battery). The contractor I talked to said get the Rigid not the DeWaltso I did and got mine for $129. I don't really care if that's cheap or not, this is probably the finest tool I've ever purchased. It reeks Mercedes-like overengineered quality and is quite literally scary powerful.
The blacdk and decker stuff is utter consumer crap by comparison, BUT the VPX system has these interesting battery modules yhou can slip in and out of several devices - flashlight, saw, drill. "Router, fishtank lights and laptop" not yet, but...
" Sure. You anywhere in the midwest?
I could^H^H^H^H^Hwill be if that's what it takes.
" If the duty cycle is 50% then that rectangle is a square. "
Yeah. Try running a microwave from a cheap generator. The clock runs 10X too fast and it never heats up.
I'm a computer programmwer not a power engineer. I make things red or blue on the screen or bold or italic and don't know power factor from Max Factor but I'm guessing non-sinusoidal output here.
" Solar panels cost about $4-5/Watt, inverters cost $1-2/watt."
That's cheap for solar panels. But it's way high for inverters. I paid $0.11/W for mine, decent ones, retail, with big guarentees.
" get a collection of lead acid batteries, connect them to the solar/wind generator"
The problem with this is, in a battery array, should one battery go south you can never replace that specific battery with one that has the identical (as a function of age) sharge and discharge characteristics. So your choices are: 1) you have one less battry now, 2) use one BIG battery if you want a centralized system (a rebuilt 24V 800 A/hr 1500LB battery can be had for $1400 up here) or 3) use a number of small autonomous systems - one to drive your computers, one for your lights, one for your fishtanks what have you. This is what I'm doing and it's a nice way to ease into it. You can buy it in bits and pieces.
Apparantly there wee several power failures here last night in the big storm. I had no idea, I was on the computer and watching movies all night. The sun never experiences power failures.
Also, if you're prepared to just "start from scratch" and reduce your expectations you might find, like I did, that the system will pay for itself in 6 months not the 6 years as is usual. No I don't have an electric dryer any more. Somehow life goes on.
"Because I really want to pay $80 for the LED equivalent of a 40 watt bulb. "
:-)
It's actially $8 inn LED's to replace a 40W builb. And you get 100,000 hours out of it.
If you can flip on a wall switch and the lights come on this is probably "who cares" material. But if you're already off grid, it's a big deal.
Somewhere between a year ago and now LED lighting your house (and err, fishtanks, like 35 of them) with LED's became feasable.
3 rooms down, 13 to go...
LED houselinghting is very different from conventional. They go on and off automatically, you can leave them on and who cares the sun powers them, you can remote control them, you can put them anywhere. Look on ebay for led lightingh gadgets then wire a bunch into a solar panel and a battery and that's lighting for one room.
White LED's have come a long way and some are actually Whitwe and not blusish. Plus there'w warm white LED's now too tha come very close to beeing so close to non-LED light you can tell they're LEDs. TGhe holy grail: LED lighting with the color error of an incandescent bulb
" if you have say three LEDs and they consume 3 volts each, you'll need 9 volts to power them to get full light output "
And if yoiu do 4 you can run then off a car battery. Pretty much forever.
Plus, don't give up on dead car batteries. I have a 10 year old Optima (gel cel spiral wound deep cycle) that I killed this February starting my diesel. Although it was $180 new, 10 years is unprecedented for a battery, especially in a diesel,. But ow it's dead. It puts out a steady 9V nop matter how much you charge it. So it's useless for cars or anything 12V.
But it'll run 1000 hi pwer LED's for about a week, and I can charge it from the sun in under half a day. And it would have got thrown out.
Ask around golf coursds around this time of year. TGypically they may renew their golf cart bartteries and if you ask they may give you the old ones as they just dump them - thwy pay to recycle them actually.
There's a fella near here that got 6 free, a small generator and hge lives off grid for $50/mo in electricy fro a generator he runs once a week.
You think Tesla waited for a fucking tax rebate?
Get to work...
" I should have probably elaborated a bit more. My point was, which I was admittedly unclear about, that since this is a hobbyist discussion, it would be a good idea to start small. Clock radios, electric toothbrush, etc... Once you've got that under control, use what you've learned from the experience to move on to the next level."
That's what I did. Butg once I got the laptop and the satellite working off solar the rest became suddenly far less important. Har.
Imagine if everybody in America ran just once device off solar power this year. And one the next year. The reduced power consumption and boost to the solar industry could only yield good things.
If you want to run just your laptiop say, you need about 20-40 Ahrs of battery which is under $200 new and about 60W of panels which is under $400, a $50 invertrer and a $29 charge controller. Now your laptop works forever, period. The batteries should last a very long time as they're not even breathing hard.
There are $99 6V deep cycle Exide industrial batteries at crappy tire. They're a good deal. The next step up really is the 800 Ahr 1500LB one that's 24V but that's overkill for most laptops.
The $99 15W panels at crappy tire are an extremely attractive price per watt. Forget tghe bigger sizes, get lots of these. Plus the bigger ones come with a terminal block and no wires. The terminal block is now outdated in soilar panels. The 15W ones come with 5 cabales, murettes, screwes... all this crap makes a difference when you're hooking up a number of them. Plus the 5 cables let you play all sorts of games.
Hot tip: use mirrors to concentrate light - even on cloudy days. I've observed up to a 3X iuncreas in power by adding mirrors.
Yes, you can overclock solar cells. No go get one and start playing dammit.
Alternative energy refigeration is indeed a pain on solar because of the high wattage and even higher surge of the compressor.
Of course in Canada this is easily solved. Turn your heat off until June, then you get a nice a and food safe maximum of 40F inside the house.
If/when it warms up I plan on doing this: I have a huge kitchen as this house was once a small hotel. I'm gonna line a part of the kitchen with straw bales and styrofoam then see how many thermoelectric cooler mechanisms it takes to keep it at 40F. Plus I'm finally gonna use that cool looking glass frointed new pepsi cooler I found in the barn when I moved here. If that doesn't work I may just use it as an icebox just like they did when this place was built.
Bloody Americans :-)
You need to keep going. You guys can get (if you're a farmer or remote business) Federal grants and Federal financing for a 15 Kw wind turbine.
Here in Canada we can get sales tax refunded. Woopee.
" given that corded tend to be more powerful, dont need charged, and and are much much cheaper"
They're cheaper but that's it. You need to try a good lithium ion drill if you think the corded ones are more powerful.
As for charging, you can do a whole deck in once charge. These things aren't ands don't behave like the $19 ones your dad keeps buyig on sale.
As my frandmother said "Quality is the only economy". The Ridig one has a lifetime warrenty but looks like it'll never need it; it reallyh is built that well. It's made in China to boot, further proof that to make what they're told (and well) and not everyuthing that coems out of china is cheap crap.
No, I'm not talking about one-use lithoum cells, I'm talking about a company that makes rechargable lithiu m ion cells in every size.
Where do you think your cel phone and laptop battery were made? Geneva?
" because I ordered a Tesla Roadster."
I want, no, I need a ride in your car. Please?
I used to think cordless drills were gutless comnpared corded ones till I got a Rigid Lithum drill. It's so powerful I'm pretty certain it'll start a Tohyota. I KNOW it will start a small gas motor. In 38 degree weather. Which takes minutes.
I have a bunch of drils and the Lithium one is by far the most powerful.
I have NiCad and NiMh drills too. Fairly uselss. They take forever to charge and don't last long, wear out quickly and you cannot buy replacement power packs (or buy them easily, yes you can buy tabbed cells and hack them...)
With solar you want to avoind anything with a cord. So cordless it is. And if you ever watched an ameter when a lithium drill charges you'd know they draw power 80 - 90 - 100 - 90 - 80 - 0 - 0 - 0 - 0 (repeat) for about 10 minutges till they're charges; but need a 400 watt inverter. Once they're dione charging they draw 0 current.
Lithium ion batteryh chargers are very very different from Nicad or NiMh which do indeed always draw some current.
Hot tip: although AA Li ion cells are too dangerous for "us" to use (if some idiot puts one in a regular AA charger, they explode. If they discharge too much, they explode) but China inc has no such qualms. If you look carefully you can find, in China, Li Ion cells in any size and shape. Even the $500 external mac laptop battery is, I think an $8 part insuide from China.
Oh, oh, so you want to spend $2000 to share wires and have it be a hybrid grid/solar system. Well, you could do that.
Not sure why though. It's a lot easier bring the solar up by itself; just keep addig panels and bateries and bit by but
you'll be using tghe grid less.
Your problem is you use too much power. I had the same problem and just unplugged or rplaced everything that was overconsumptive. 700W desktop tower goes away in favouir of 45W laptop. Cordless drill that takes hours to recharge is replaced by a fast charginbh lithium ionh one. etc.
I cut my power to 1/4 doing this. THEN went solar. Your 30K cost is now 7K.
The OP doesbn't need a grid tie invertor. That's for selling excess power back to the power company.
I run a sat receiver by having it plugged into a ups with a ubiquitous 7Ah SLA battery, fully charged, with two 30W solar panels hooked up directly to the battery. It just sits there and works.
I have lots of solar panels, i just hook them up in lotrs of little autonomous systems than do one thing. Free, and forver (or until some part beaks or the sun stop shining).
I've got a bunch of these setups for various things with various batteries and inverters.
I can't for the life of my see how "small scale" and "grid tie" relate at all.
If you had an 18Kw hydro plant I could see it but...
Yeah, if I'm the owner of a company and not just some "Slash and Burn" CEO, I wouldn't want to have my core assets hostage to some third party _company_."
Ya mean like with DNS?
Um, folks? All this 3000K and 6000K talk does not mean temperature, it's the color of the light. 5000K is white, or at least the color of equitorial sunlight at noon in the equator, 2700k is tellowish soft light, 7500K is the color of noon in Norway.
It's the color of a body of iron at those temperatures in Kelvin. This has nothing to do with the temperature of the bulb, that is a 7500 degree Kelvin 4 foot fluorescent bulb may be 7500K *in color* but it's barely 80 degrees F in operation. Although degrees Kelvin measures heat like Celsius and Farenheight, it also means "color" becaise of the black body of iron thing.
I'm guessing this lamp is hot but it aint in the thousands of degreesm kelvin or otherwise althouhg I'm quite sure it's a 6000K bulk or whatever.
140 lumens per watt is good but not earth shattering - this is what (high pressure) sodium lamps do already - and are the most efficient bulbs mankind makes. So this is as good but no better than the best we have now. What is good about it is it's small, most plasma lamps aren't.
I'd be interested in knowing what happens to the amount of light per watt as the bulb is made smaller and larger.
Sadly TFV did bad^H^H^Hhorrible things to my machine and there was no FA to read but I'm sure if it's really feasable I'll hear about it soon enough. Not like with those sulfur microwave lamps from a few years back that had similar claims.
" No, the Internet is not that complex. "
Sure, once you understand it all.
The kind of poeple you want making decisions about the Internet are Internet experts. Not random policy wonks that took Wal Marts shoe sales over the top or negotiated a grain contract.
And I want these over the remeastered flacs I got off the net why exactly?
It's not like I haven't paid for every Beatles song many times over at this point.