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A Super-Efficient Light Bulb

Chroniton writes with news of a Silicon Valley company, Luxim, that has developed a tiny, full-spectrum light bulb, based on a plasma of argon gas, that gives off as much light as a streetlight while using less power. The Tic Tac-sized bulb operates at temperatures up to 6000K and produces 140 lumens/watt, almost ten times as efficient as standard incandescent lamps, and twice the efficiency of high-end LEDs. The new bulbs also have a lifetime of 20,000 hours. There's no mention of mercury or other heavy metals, which pose a problem for compact fluorescents.

468 comments

  1. That's all well and good... by Fishchip · · Score: 5, Funny

    but can I use it in a grow-op?

    1. Re:That's all well and good... by iknownuttin · · Score: 1

      I had similar thought but for fish tanks. This would be wonderful for a panted tank or for reef tanks.

      --
      I prefer Flambe as apposed flamebait.
    2. Re:That's all well and good... by Naughty+Bob · · Score: 0

      If you are wanting high-tech grow lamps, LEDs are where it's at.

      --
      "Be light, stinging, insolent and melancholy"
    3. Re:That's all well and good... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      From what I've seen, LEDs give you pretty scraggly looking plants. You get decent grams per watt yield, but not so great grams per square foot. They do produce less heat, but you're going to have to ventilate to control odor anyway. Plus, the LED grow lamps cost a lot more than a HID light, it would take a couple years to make that back in power savings. All in all, I don't think it's quite worth it *yet*.

      Posting AC for obvious reasons.

    4. Re:That's all well and good... by RockModeNick · · Score: 1

      They really would, currently high end lighting for reef tanks requires cooling fans, and quite frankly, all this stuff for fish tanks is WAY overpriced, I'd really welcome a cheap, energy efficient alternative that fits into a much tighter space.

    5. Re:That's all well and good... by gasmasher · · Score: 3, Informative

      It isn't that expensive. I built a hood for my 75 gallon reef and it has 350 Watts of compact fluorescent light using 2 Fulham Workhorse ballasts. The total cost of the hood was around $350 and the bulbs should be replaced once a year for about $200. That is over 4 watts/gallon and easily supports my cnidarians and clams. The bulb in the article is not suitable for a reef tank with corals, clams, or anemones since the temperature isn't in the 10K range but it should work great in a planted tank.

    6. Re:That's all well and good... by RockModeNick · · Score: 1

      If you think 350 dollars is reasonable... you've clearly been pricing stuff for a reef tank. I don't see why costs for these setups is near what they are, I've calculated that if thread-in compact florescent were available in the right K's(hard to find them much above 5000k when I've looked) arrays of eight these bulbs at 26 watts each would fit the length of a four foot tank using only 3" in width, easily allowing over 400 watts to fit into one 6" or so fixture, two of which could be situated over an 18" wide tank leaving room. That would be over 10wpg in your tank of course, but even if someone wanted to run that(lets say they have a custom VERY deep tank that needs penetration) it would only cost 160 a year to replace every bulb, assuming 5$ a bulb, which you can often do much better than. Running only slightly more watts than you have currently with one fixture featuring 16 bulbs, this design has under 80$ a year replacement cost, and no ballasts to deal with at all, just simple arrays of sockets. I calculate construction cost with bulbs to be under 160$. Now, where to get thread type CPF in 10,000k...

    7. Re:That's all well and good... by promethean_spark · · Score: 1

      In related news marijuana futures for 2010 have dropped 5%...

    8. Re:That's all well and good... by gasmasher · · Score: 1

      Part of the problem with using threaded bulbs (at least all the ones I have seen) is re-strike. That is when the light emitted from the bulb hits another part of the bulb or is reflected off the hood back into the bulb. I do feel that reflectors are ridiculously overpriced so I decided to make my own using PVC cut lengthwise and painted with fake chrome. I'm not sure how you would get much more than %50 of the light emitted from a spiral wound bulb reflected into the tank. The other major problem is just as you mentioned, I have never seen them in the correct temperature range.

      I had to put the inexpensive hood that came with the tank while I was doing some maintenance. The difference in light was amazing between the two 80 Watt 6500K 4 foot bulbs and the six 55/65 watt 10K 2 foot bulbs I have in the new hood. It's kind of funny when I think that it was plenty of light when I set the tank up a few years ago.

    9. Re:That's all well and good... by tylernt · · Score: 1

      I do feel that reflectors are ridiculously overpriced so I decided to make my own using PVC cut lengthwise and painted with fake chrome.
      Actually somebody did some tests with a light meter, and found that white painted reflectors actually outperformed shiny silver ones, unless the silver one was faceted to (nearly) eliminate restrike.

      The other major problem is just as you mentioned, I have never seen them in the correct temperature range.
      I have seen "daylight" bulbs in stores that are noticeably bluish (6500K?), but yeah, true actinic ones are rare to nonexistent. Still, you can still save money by installing a bunch of screw-ins in combination with some actinic PCs.
      --
      DRM 'manages access' in the same way that a prison 'manages freedom'
    10. Re:That's all well and good... by gasmasher · · Score: 1

      I hadn't read that about the different coated reflectors. This is a hobby so I obviously still have a lot to learn.

      I still think it would be difficult to get the light emitted from screw-in bulbs into the tank. Those bulbs have 4-5 twists so it would be difficult to reflect the light from the upper rings into the water and that is more space that needs to be accounted for in the hood. It would probably require an expensive reflector. You can always throw more bulbs in there but it already gets pretty toasty with the current bulbs so I added an A/C fan and some dynamat to cut the noise.

    11. Re:That's all well and good... by RockModeNick · · Score: 1

      If you use a mylar reflector glued onto PVC, you'll get MUCH more reflection that you will with metallic paints. Mylar and bright white paint are the best(I think they found the paints meant for painting walls to be used as projector screens to be the very best), to find exact plans for maximum reflection with home materials, simply research marijuana growing, these people have done ALL the work for you. I've done some simple tests with these bulbs in common incandescent aquarium fixtures, and I you DO lose some significant light, but not as much more as you'd think VS tubes, I believe this is mostly due to VERY poor reflector design in most commercial fixtures. When comparing aquarium design thread-in florescent(which use horizontal tubes, rather than spiral) with twice the wattage spiral type, the spiral are definately much brighter with the same reflector, though I agree not twice as bright. As the above poster mentioned, they do come in up to 6700k if you look hard, but it's still less optimal vs 10k. I've heard of doing reef with 6700k bulbs. Maybe a 9" hood made with 24 bulbs would be needed, to compensate for the spiral design and lower temperature light, but I still really want to try constructing one of these someday.

    12. Re:That's all well and good... by Grishnakh · · Score: 1

      Probably not. This new technology will probably be banned or somehow "disappeared" by the government because it'll make it harder to detect marijuana growing operations, so we'll all be forced to stick with crappier, more polluting lighting technologies in order to "protect" us from the evils of marijuana.

    13. Re:That's all well and good... by Ignis+Flatus · · Score: 1

      been a few years since i was in the hobby, but reefs.org seemed to be a good source of info at the time. technology and opinions are always on the move, but much much good info is available on the old Usenet archives, too, with people like Delbeek even posting there. of course, it all depends on what your goals are, but before i quit i had switched to a 2-bulb metal halide setup at 500W total, plus power to run all the pumps, fans, etc. something about point sources really seem to help with acroporas. plus the ripple is cool. oh, and fwiw, despite generating all that heat in my little apartment and running up decent power bills, i never got a knock from the feds. people that do must be running some fairly significant operations.

  2. Light pollution by CRCulver · · Score: 5, Insightful

    gives off as much light as a streetlight while using less power.

    Great, people lighting their properties with more bright lights is just what we need. Light pollution is already a serious probably (it's destroyed amateur astronmy, see Mizon's Light Pollution ). Instead of showing people how they can make do with less lights, we're just making it cheaper for private individuals to duplicate the Las Vegas strip.

    1. Re:Light pollution by CRCulver · · Score: 2

      Light pollution is already a serious probably ... it's destroyed amateur astronmy

      Geez, of course that should read: Light pollution is already a serious problem ... it's destroyed amateur astronomy.

    2. Re:Light pollution by merreborn · · Score: 5, Insightful

      gives off as much light as a streetlight while using less power.
      Great, people lighting their properties with more bright lights is just what we need
      I missed the part of TFA that said these bulbs were going to be available at prices low enough for home use.

      What makes you think these aren't just going to be used to... replace streetlights? Halving the power usage of streetlights nationwide would reduce atmospheric pollution measurably. If the choice is between light pollution and atmospheric polution... ...light pollution is the more desirable of the two.
    3. Re:Light pollution by pcruce · · Score: 5, Informative

      I agree. The reason it hasn't killed professional ground based astronomy is that it is quite easy to subtract the very focused wavelength of sodium vapor streetlights from an image, as sodium vapor lamps are almost completely monochromatic. If we switched to these full spectrum lamps that would be much more difficult, probably meaning we would only be able to do astronomy in very remote areas or with orbiting observatories. That said, even as strong a proponent of astronomy as I am, the increased efficiency of these lights would probably make it worthwhile...

    4. Re:Light pollution by peragrin · · Score: 5, Informative

      it also affects drivers, and pilots as well. In some regions airports have pushed for local laws to limit light pollution going up into the sky as it interferes with planes landing. Spot lights can temporary blind drivers causing accidents.

      Light pollution isn't so much about astronomy but being able to see when it is dark out, because some idiot is lighting up his yard like fen way park. At night less is more. I can use 5 watt 12 volt bulbs and light up your house better than spotlights. more of the house will be lit with less random dark spaces, and more importantly less shadows in which people can hid.

      --
      i thought once I was found, but it was only a dream.
    5. Re:Light pollution by sjames · · Score: 3, Interesting

      Switch streetlights to a 33% duty cycle with pseudo-random (or really random) timing and instantly reduce power use for street lighting by 66% AND allow people to actually see those mysterious lights in the sky the old Greek dudes were talking about. As a side benefit, studies have shown that crime actually goes DOWN when lights come on at random rather than staying on all the time.

    6. Re:Light pollution by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Hopefully the global economy collapses and finally ends the great suburban sprawl juggernaut. At this point that is what it will take to return the night sky.

    7. Re:Light pollution by peragrin · · Score: 4, Insightful

      It is also easy to use shields, and angles to limit the amount of light going up, and only light up the areas that you need to. Besides reflects let you use a lower wattage and still light up the same area.

      --
      i thought once I was found, but it was only a dream.
    8. Re:Light pollution by timmarhy · · Score: 0, Flamebait

      quick stop working on that cure to cancer, light pollution is SERIOUS, man

      --
      If you mod me down, I will become more powerful than you can imagine....
    9. Re:Light pollution by willy_me · · Score: 1

      But those low pressure sodium lights don't turn on and off instantly. It can take several minutes depending on the temperature. And when in the process of turning on, the efficiency sucks. They are really designed to be turned on and then left on.

      If a different form of lighting were used (like LED) then your suggestion would be worth consideration. But such a suggestion would currently require that all street lighting be replaced with an alternative that can quickly turn on/off.

    10. Re:Light pollution by Artuir · · Score: 1

      It's times like these that I wish we'd hurry our dumb asses up and build huge observatories on the dark side of the moon. At least that way we can still get data - though it just isn't the same imagining an Earth where you can't go outside with binoculars to do some stargazing because everyone has 2000 lumen bulbs in every socket of their residence.

    11. Re:Light pollution by Viadd · · Score: 1

      quick stop working on that cure to cancer, light pollution is SERIOUS, man

      LIght pollution causes cancer. Tests have shown it causes cancer in laboratory rats (...but everything causes cancer in laboratory rats). Epidemiological studies have shown that it causes breast cancer in women.

      It also has harmful ecological effects, primarily among plants and animals that have mating cycles tied to the phases of the Moon. But also other effects such as insects being eaten by birds that can see them at night (bad for the insects, good for the birds, bad for the bats that no longer have insects to eat because the bats got them.)
    12. Re:Light pollution by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Yea but the more of them you use the more you save.

    13. Re:Light pollution by mikael · · Score: 1

      If they could get street lights that can turn on and off quickly, then it might be possible to add a noise or motion sensor so that a strip of street lights turn on automatically when needed.

      --
      Vintage computer adverts: http://www.vintageadbrowser.com/computers-and-software-ads
    14. Re:Light pollution by Facegarden · · Score: 1, Offtopic

      OMFG, are you kidding me? Most things are less important than cancer research, but if everyone subscribed to your line of thinking, no one would be solving ANY other problems... there'd be no more cancer, but everything else would suck. Do you really think that is a good idea? Besides, people working to reduce light pollution likely don't have the skills to cure cancer (biology, chemistry), so your point doesn't even make sense. I know you were just joking, but if you're going to make fun of people, you might try to avoid sounding like an idiot in the process, or in the end you'll be the one looking bad, not them. And better yet, why not just stop making fun of people who are trying to make a good point? -Taylor

      --
      Worldwide Military budgets: $2100 billion. Worldwide Space Exploration budgets: $38 billion. Really, world? Really?
    15. Re:Light pollution by tomhudson · · Score: 3, Informative

      It's times like these that I wish we'd hurry our dumb asses up and build huge observatories on the dark side of the moon.

      The only "Dark Side of the Moon" I know of is from Pink Floyd. How do you plan to fit a huge observatory on a cd?

    16. Re:Light pollution by timmarhy · · Score: 1

      worthless without credible links, like you said EVERYTHING causes cancer...

      --
      If you mod me down, I will become more powerful than you can imagine....
    17. Re:Light pollution by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You realize the purpose of streetlights is also so pedestrians can see where the fuck they're walking, right? Lights suddenly turning off is a hazard, not a benefit.

    18. Re:Light pollution by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      What idiot modded this 'troll'?

      He's just pointing out that every part of the moon is lit at some point during the month!

    19. Re:Light pollution by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You know how annoying it is to try and grill something outside at night with a street light constantly going on and off making it impossible to see half the time because by the time your eyes readjust its turned back on again? VERY ANNOYING.

    20. Re:Light pollution by MrNaz · · Score: 1

      Light pollution causes cancer? Right, and noise pollution reduces the SNR on my ADSL connection.

      --
      I hate printers.
    21. Re:Light pollution by Pictish+Prince · · Score: 4, Interesting

      The /. moderation system clearly does not work well. In response to the "troll", however, you don't need to put the telescope somewhere dark on the moon. Having no atmosphere, the moon does not present any difficulties for daytime telescopy since there's no scatter into the objective.

      --
      Only his tendency toward a dazed stupor prevented him from screaming aloud.
    22. Re:Light pollution by sjames · · Score: 1, Interesting

      The efficiency when turning on is likely less important than the power draw. If we accept that it's not really necessary to turn night into day, (that is, that grown-ups shouldn't need a nightlight) then having them dim at the beginning of their cycle isn't much of an issue. Those constraints suggest the cycle length will need to be on the long side. Of course, The lights in TFA (being so small) probably have a much faster start-up.

    23. Re:Light pollution by sjames · · Score: 0, Troll

      So carry a flashlight! Of all of the problems I hear about in power failures, people unable to find their way home while wlaking isn't one of them.

    24. Re:Light pollution by sjames · · Score: 1, Funny

      Porch light? Tiki torch? Grill earlier? Surely there's a better answer than running a streetlight 8-12 hours a day just in case you might be grilling.

    25. Re:Light pollution by langelgjm · · Score: 1

      You realize the purpose of streetlights is also so pedestrians can see where the fuck they're walking, right? Lights suddenly turning off is a hazard, not a benefit.

      I think the parent had in mind adjusting the duty cycle of something like LEDs, which you can turn on and off many times per second. As I understand, this has the effect of making the lights look dimmer, and uses less power.

      --
      "Anyone who [rips a CD] is probably engaging in copyright infringement." - David O. Carson
    26. Re:Light pollution by icebrain · · Score: 5, Informative

      It's times like these that I wish we'd hurry our dumb asses up and build huge observatories on the far side of the moon. Fixed that for you. Of course, the real benefit isn't for light pollution (though that's easy enough to take care of when there's no air), since no "side" of the moon is in perpetual darkness. You have about a 336-hour day.

      The real benefit is for radio astronomy. The far side always faces away from earth, which is a giant radio noise source, and the bulk of the moon itself blocks all the signal. It's really the only place where you won't get such interference (a few space probes notwithstanding).
      --
      The meek may inherit the earth, but the strong shall take the stars.
    27. Re:Light pollution by Artuir · · Score: 1

      Yes, because everyone on the planet works on curing cancer. Different people excel at different things - are you going to suggest stopping progress in everything until cancer is cured? That is ridiculous and all of humanity's progress will stop on a dime. That's like saying, quick! Stop developing network technology because curing cancer is more important! The reasoning just doesn't work and it's kind of overplayed.

    28. Re:Light pollution by Original+Replica · · Score: 5, Informative

      If you had ever spent much time in the countryside, you would know how well you can see by moonlight. I've been out during a full moon on a clear night and been able to play soccer with my friends. Driving requires that we can see dozens to hundreds of yards ahead, so need brighter illumination. We can see just fine outside at night for walking speeds. During the vast majority of our evolution we didn't have artificial light, but we did just fine, we still can.

      --
      We are all just people.
    29. Re:Light pollution by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Funny

      "Light pollution isn't so much about astronomy but being able to see when it is dark out, because some idiot is lighting up his yard like fen way park. At night less is more. I can use 5 watt 12 volt bulbs and light up your house better than spotlights. more of the house will be lit with less random dark spaces, and more importantly less shadows in which people can hid."

      I just leave the Christmas lights up.

      --Charles Griswold

    30. Re:Light pollution by JWSmythe · · Score: 1

      You forget, most city dwellers go ...

          from their well lit homes, .. watching TV, or .. staring at their computer screen,

          to walking outside to their car,

          driving from point A to B while watching the road illuminated by their halogen headlights,

          and then quickly inside again. :)

          Then there's us city dwellers who go from the computer in the darkened room into the kitchen for food with only just enough lights on, and then into the dark bedroom to sleep.. :)

          I grew up in the country, so I know exactly what you mean though. I do remember the occasionally very dark night, with no moon and overcast so there were no stars, which left you stumbling without a light. Most nights were fine though, once you were outside for a little while.

      --
      Serious? Seriousness is well above my pay grade.
    31. Re:Light pollution by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      During the vast majority of our existence, we slept whenever it was dark.

      We still can't see in the dark. It's also worth pointing out that at best, you get a week of sufficient moonlight a month. This assumes you have no cloud-cover whatsoever, as well as no natural obstacles, such as hills, trees, or buildings.

      So your pollyanna "Oh the moonlight!" commentary notwithstanding, streetlights still have utility -- and pre-electrical lighting has existed for centuries as well. It's not as if the need for lighting a city has changed much or is in any danger of going away

    32. Re:Light pollution by Sperbels · · Score: 1

      It causes cancer in that it disrupts your Circadian rhythms. In much the same that people at high latitudes use lights to ease the problems of the long winter nights, having the lights on *all* night can screw up your body chemistry too. It's been shown that people who work night shifts for long periods of their lives are more likely to get cancer.

      See here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Light_pollution#Effects_on_human_health_and_psychology

    33. Re:Light pollution by Mr.+Freeman · · Score: 1

      Yes, of course. We should make light bulbs more *inefficient* and waste more power. Because obviously, the efficiency of lights and the problem of light pollution are completely related and there's no way to solve both problems.

      --
      -1 disagree is not a modifier for a reason. -1 troll, flaimbait, redundant, overrated are NOT acceptable substitutes.
    34. Re:Light pollution by Jesus_666 · · Score: 1

      Because what I really need is five LEDs per square meter just to get somewhat acceptable lighting indoors.

      Currently, I use either halogen spots (hot, not very efficient, not good at lighting a whole room) or halogen uplights (very hot, inefficient but at least good at lighting a room). Traditional incandescents suck even more power than halogens and CFLs give off a rather terrible light and contain mercury. LEDs are not an option because they're much more expensive than halogen spots while being much less bright.

      This plasma bulb might turn into a decent alternative to regular halogen bulbs. Unfortunately TFvideo didn't compare this thing to regular halogens, but perhaps it or a weaker version of it could be used as a replacement for the fly roasting machine that calls itself my uplight. An additional question would be whether this bulb is dimmable.

      --
      USE HOT GRITS WITH STATUE OF NATALIE PORTMAN (NAKED AND PETRIFIED)
    35. Re:Light pollution by Will_Malverson · · Score: 1

      Once, driving late at night in rural Washington State, I realized that the moonlight was so bright that I *could* see just fine with it. I did a brief 5-10 second turn-off of my headlights, and I could actually see *better* than I could with my headlights on. Had I not been worried about other people not seeing me, deer in the road, and legal implications of driving without headlights, I might have been tempted to keep driving that way. It was amazing.

    36. Re:Light pollution by Mr.+Freeman · · Score: 2, Insightful

      And when it's cloudy, or the moon isn't full?
      "During the vast majority of our evolution we didn't have artificial light, but we did just fine" During the vast majority of our evolution, we didn't drive cars. The culture was also completely different so we may or may not have had any reason to walk outside at night. We may have had better night vision "back then" because no one grew up with artificial lights.

      The next time you're going to make a "We didn't have XYZ, but we did fine!" argument, think about it for 10 seconds. Chances are, you'll see that it's fatally flawed.

      --
      -1 disagree is not a modifier for a reason. -1 troll, flaimbait, redundant, overrated are NOT acceptable substitutes.
    37. Re:Light pollution by Snodgrass · · Score: 1

      Oh come on. You really think the 100 watt bulb your neighbor has on his back porch is really affecting the ambient light? Try the acres of parking lots and car dealerships kept as bright all night as the sun at high noon.

      I flew to California a few weeks ago after dark, and looking down from the plane the houses were the dark spots between the shopping malls, street lights, and factories.

    38. Re:Light pollution by The+Evil+Couch · · Score: 1

      Switch streetlights to a 33% duty cycle with pseudo-random (or really random) timing
      Oh no. I'm not doing that. Last thing I need is for all the lights in front of me to randomly shut down sequentially until I'm left alone in the dark with a Skaarj.
    39. Re:Light pollution by Duncan+Blackthorne · · Score: 1
      If you really want to fumble around in the dark in your neighborhood, that's your business, but I know that burglars and other common criminals thrive in the dark, the best way IMO to keep your home and neighborhood safe from them is to make sure there's adequate street lighting.

      ..and besides that, who's to say that this technology can't be scaled down for interior lighting use? They're claiming double the efficiency of LEDs, full-spectrum, and 20K hours of lifespan. If possible, who woudldn't want that inside -- or outside -- their house?

    40. Re:Light pollution by emilper · · Score: 1

      Instead of showing people how they can make do with less lights

      Buy trained bats to guide them ?

    41. Re:Light pollution by Duncan+Blackthorne · · Score: 1

      I'll bet you a dollar that switching streetlamps on and off randomly would end up costing more in lamp replacement than they'd save dollar-wise on energy.

    42. Re:Light pollution by apoc.famine · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Actually, there is one major difficulty: Thermal expansion.

      --
      Velociraptor = Distiraptor / Timeraptor
    43. Re:Light pollution by iamhassi · · Score: 1

      "Great, people lighting their properties with more bright lights is just what we need."

      Please show me where it says this will only be use to light outside properties. I thought the point was to replace light bulbs, not streetlights. The streetlight reference and example was just to show how powerful this technology is because most people understand how bright streetlights are.

      --
      my karma will be here long after I'm gone
    44. Re:Light pollution by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      These lights are incredible efficient, but they are not cheap. The technology uses microwaves to excite sulphur in a globe filled with argon. The light comes from microwave energy pumping the sulphur up. It is not suited for home use but for industrial large areas. I suspect it will not be used for yard lighting and it is not really rated for full mil-spec temp range, i.e., outdoors. It's best for indoors and large areas like an arena, and maybe, but not surely, for streetlights.

    45. Re:Light pollution by Belial6 · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Yes, it is plenty bright with a full moon, and black as pitch during a new moon.

      We clearly did not do fine before artificial lighting. Think for a second about what color is associated with evil. In virtually every culture on the planet, it was black. Do you know why? Because when you would wander around in the black of night, your chances of dieing went up dramatically. Since lots more people died in the black of night, the night must have been inhabited by evil beings, and thus black is the color of evil and death. This is a pretty good indication that we didn't do fine.

      Of course, maybe I am taking you all wrong. It is possible that you recognize that virtually all of our environmental problems are caused by over population, and when you say 'we did just fine', you could mean that having more people die by turning the lights off would be good for the environment. With that, I could agree, even if it was an uncomfortable agreement.

    46. Re:Light pollution by kesuki · · Score: 1

      although this bulb is 'twice as efficient' as current LED bulbs, 140 lumens per watt is not far from where LEDs are going to be in the year 2012. Leds are also narrow band light pollution (usually a specific single frequency)

      not to mention, you have to buy this bulb every 20,000 hours, compared to a MTBF of 300,000 hours for LEDs. so, by 2012 Everyone is going to want LEDs, especially the super efficient ones, that produce around 130 lumens/watt.

      of course, even 70 lumens per watt isn't bad when you consider the 300,000 hour life. Especially since you can throw a well designed led bulb against a wall, without breaking it.

    47. Re:Light pollution by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Interesting

      NO SHIT.

      I live on the 30th floor of an apartment building. One full block away, someone is using a 150 or 300 watt incandescent to light up their backyard. Unshielded of course. 50% of it's light is spilled directly into the sky. It's the brightest visible thing in the entire city, RUINS the entire view of the nighttime cityscape because it's so out of place, and at night casts such brightness on my ceiling that if I don't want to be kept awake by the light, I have to pull my curtains (which pisses me off, it's nice to wake up to sunlight in the morning, and it helps one to wake up). I can't imagine how peeved and angry at him all his neighbours are, the ones who live right next to him.

      Furthermore, it's blinding. I can't see a fucking thing in his back yard. Someone could spend a half hour butchering him with an axe right in the middle of his back lawn, and I betcha NOBODY would see a fucking thing. I couldn't.

      I really should print out this post and put it in his mailbox. (Hmmm, perhaps I should hit the "anon" button :) )

    48. Re:Light pollution by gyrogeerloose · · Score: 1

      It is pitch black. You are likely to be eaten by a grue.

      --
      This ain't rocket surgery.
    49. Re:Light pollution by manisnowba · · Score: 1

      Any chance you can post actual citations for those street light/crime studies? 13% of people use made-up statistics.

    50. Re:Light pollution by lemur666 · · Score: 1

      Buy trained bats to guide them ? No, no, no.

      All the bats have already died from cancer.

      Please do try and keep up with the thread.

      --
      Corollary to Hanlon's razor: Any significantly advanced stupidity is indistinguishable from malice.
    51. Re:Light pollution by zippthorne · · Score: 1

      In 31 years, $1M won't be worth much. Certainly not enough to retire on.

      --
      Can you be Even More Awesome?!
    52. Re:Light pollution by ceoyoyo · · Score: 1

      There are a few craters where you could build a modestly sized optical observatory that would always be in darkness. Might be handy to avoid thermal problems.

    53. Re:Light pollution by Chrontius · · Score: 1

      Yes, but my ROP *is* a spotlight, and it's only eating 7.2 volts in a package the size of a Mag-Lite. I personally can't wait for these things to hit the market; a pocket searchlight like a ROP or Mag85 is only getting 30-40 lumens per watt...

    54. Re:Light pollution by sjames · · Score: 1

      I'm having trouble digging up the studies about randomized lights, but I have no problem finding reports and studies such as this showing no correlation between lighting and crime rates. Plenty of referencees in that one.

    55. Re:Light pollution by timeOday · · Score: 1

      Great, people lighting their properties with more bright lights is just what we need. Light pollution is already a serious probably
      OK, we take it back. It's not 10x brighter, it's the same brightness but uses 10x less power. Happy now?
    56. Re:Light pollution by WK2 · · Score: 1

      Sounds like it might actually work. It would confuse and disorient the people, which might lead to criminals being too scared to commit crimes. However, I think it is more likely that it is just a rumor, and that street lights have little to no effect on crime, whether you leave them on or flicker them.

      --
      Write your own Choose Your Own Adventure. http://www.freegameengines.org/gamebook-engine/
    57. Re:Light pollution by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Informative

      Two words: Pellet gun.

    58. Re:Light pollution by Alioth · · Score: 2, Informative

      Thing is they aren't more efficient than streetlights. Low pressure sodium, available for decades, is 180 lumens/watt; 40 lumens/watt better than these. If low pressure sodium streetlights are replaced by these it will *decrease* efficiency and *increase* pollution.

      Astronomers prefer low pressure sodium too since they can be easily filtered. Full spectrum lights will be the bane of astronomy.

    59. Re:Light pollution by untaken_name · · Score: 1

      Overpopulation? Of what? I mean, regions can be overpopulated, sure. However, the Earth as a whole is not overpopulated. You could fit the entire population of the Earth into Texas. Of course, that would cause Texas to be overpopulated, but not the Earth as a whole. There's still plenty of room out there. You probably live in a city and just don't realize it. You're a fool if you think that the world is overpopulated.

    60. Re:Light pollution by untaken_name · · Score: 1

      13% of people use made-up statistics.

      Cite please? Since 87% of all statistics are made up on the spot, I don't believe yours.

    61. Re:Light pollution by untaken_name · · Score: 1

      Besides, people working to reduce light pollution likely don't have the skills to cure cancer (biology, chemistry)

      Exactly correct. And the people who DO have the skills are... working on another Viagra, Propecia, or Slim-Fast.

    62. Re:Light pollution by ultranova · · Score: 2, Funny

      I can't imagine how peeved and angry at him all his neighbours are, the ones who live right next to him.

      Furthermore, it's blinding. I can't see a fucking thing in his back yard. Someone could spend a half hour butchering him with an axe right in the middle of his back lawn, and I betcha NOBODY would see a fucking thing. I couldn't.

      So what you're saying is that the problem will propably solve itself sooner or later ?

      --

      Forget magic. Any technology distinguishable from divine power is insufficiently advanced.

    63. Re:Light pollution by pla · · Score: 1

      As a side benefit, studies have shown that crime actually goes DOWN when lights come on at random rather than staying on all the time.

      Studies have also shown that crime goes down when you comepletely turn off the street-lights.

      Street-lights provide a tiny island of light while preventing our eyes from adjusting to the dark as they would with no artificial light around. A mugger/rapist/politician merely has to wait just a bit outside that island for a suitable victim to pass. From that position, he can patiently assess the defensive capabilities of his potential victims, with them unable to see him well (if at all), and move in quickly for the attack.

      In places where we really need nighttime outdoor ligthing (if they exist), we should limit it to low-power, low-mounted (below eye level), properly-hooded path illumination. That provides some safety benefit without giving the deer-in-headlights effect at we go from night-blind to blinded-by-the-light.

    64. Re:Light pollution by qaldune · · Score: 1

      That's fine for full moon nights. Any hint on no-moonlight-at-all nights? Do you know what they did back in time when they had no artificial light and it wasn't full moon night? They just go sleep. Are you really gonna go to sleep at 5PM or 6PM in the winter when there's already no sunlight at all? Most people won't. I won't. That's why we need artificial light.

    65. Re:Light pollution by sjames · · Score: 1

      Based on the studies I've seen while looking for the study I swa before, I agree with you. Most of the lights should be simply de-comissioned.

      For those cases where some light is needed, low power path illumination would not only be more efficient and less problem with light pollution, but would also be more aestetically pleasing. I'm thinking small hooded LED lights and perhaps even electroluminescent wire as a curb marker. As a side benefit, improved aestetics boost business (and so tax revenue).

    66. Re:Light pollution by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      As another anon has said, "pellet gun". Just keep shooting his light until he learns (or, if you feel this won't work, try killing it with a brick-note).

    67. Re:Light pollution by ivan256 · · Score: 4, Informative

      It's hard to be optimistic about LED efficiency improvements these days. The announcements of improvements made by manufacturers over the last few years have yet to make it to the market, and the units I've purchased in bulk typically don't match the ratings. The last project I built with high-efficiency LEDs required that I throw out about two thirds, and that I test every one individually. Of the ones that passed, several failed within the first 1000 hours of use.

      140 lumens per watt by 2012 would be nice, but I'll believe it when I see it.

    68. Re:Light pollution by sjames · · Score: 1

      Based on the additional reading I've done now, many studies show that even lighting has no significant effect on crime and uneven lighting can actually increase crime.

      It would seem as a society we have spent (and continue spending) many millions on safety measures that 'sound right' but don't actually help and in the process turned the night sky into a sickly pink glow. It would seem we have a lot to gain and little to lose by significantly revising our street lighting.

    69. Re:Light pollution by StingRay02 · · Score: 0, Redundant

      Damn. You beat me to it.

    70. Re:Light pollution by kent_eh · · Score: 1

      Also, improved reflectors are relatively easy to deploy while retrofitting new bulbs.

      --

      ---
      "I can't complain, but sometimes still do..." Joe Walsh
    71. Re:Light pollution by budgenator · · Score: 1
      the bulbs use metal halides, typically iodine is the halide used

      The list includes many additives such as
      iodides and bromides of sodium, indium,
      thallium, scandium, and lithium, as well as
      halogens of various rare-earth metals such as
      thulium and dysprosium Long-Life True-Color Projection Displays Using LIFI(tm) Light Sources (PDF)

      as for availability for home use, Pansonic LCD projection HDTVs in 720p are expected to become available next month, and 1080p available in may in sizes of 50, 56 and 61 inches and will have a 10 second turn-on time, 6 times faster than the 60 S needed by HID bulbs that have to be replaced every year or two.
      --
      Apocalypse Cancelled, Sorry, No Ticket Refunds
    72. Re:Light pollution by Belial6 · · Score: 1

      That is only if you don't think there are any environmental problems. It is also absolutely possible to have localized overpopulation. If your local area is overpopulated, it doesn't matter if the planet as a whole is. You could still want a bunch of people to die so that your local area is no longer overpopulated.

    73. Re:Light pollution by budgenator · · Score: 2, Informative

      1. long days and long nights mean thermal equilibrium lasts for a long time on the equatorial regions,
      2. polar regions are always day/night so that's a constant
      3. Hubble seems to do ok without an atmosphere
      4. even ground based telescopes like my puny 6 incher need some time to equilibrate thermaly

      --
      Apocalypse Cancelled, Sorry, No Ticket Refunds
    74. Re:Light pollution by DrWho520 · · Score: 1

      We discussed this in my Astronomy class in college. All you need is the proper light fixture to direct light where it needs to go, down to the ground where people are walking. There is no need for street lights to shine up into the sky. More efficient light does not need to mean more glaring light placed in the wrong place.

      --
      The cancel button is your friend. Do not hesitate to use it.
    75. Re:Light pollution by DrWho520 · · Score: 1

      If you drive 30-40 miles north of Las Vegas on SR15, the seeing is amazing.

      --
      The cancel button is your friend. Do not hesitate to use it.
    76. Re:Light pollution by StingRay02 · · Score: 1

      So, while I'll agree fully that the full-moon argument is fatally flawed and ridiculous, the idea that people just slept when the sun went down is also downright silly. Seriously. It's called fire. Whether we're talking small candles, oil lamps, or giant bonfires, humanity has been using fire to light up the night for millennia. This may be shocking, but not all light has to be electrically generated.

    77. Re:Light pollution by budgenator · · Score: 1

      If your walking through the dense canopy old-growth woods, at night in the kind of dark where you can see about arm's length and come out on to a fire roads that's illuminated by full-moon light it's painfully dazzling!

      --
      Apocalypse Cancelled, Sorry, No Ticket Refunds
    78. Re:Light pollution by mspohr · · Score: 2, Informative

      I had a neighbor with an annoying spotlight. I put up a few common red reflectors which gave him a couple of red evil eyes pointing back to his house. Guess what?... the light went off (and stayed off).

      --
      I don't read your sig. Why are you reading mine?
    79. Re:Light pollution by budgenator · · Score: 1

      That's because most of us in society don't think like predators anymore; a predators wants to be unseen, and for it's potential prey to be obviously visible. a bungler would want to approach a building in shadow, to a point shielded from view, but has enough illumination to work in. His nightmare would be a fixture that is heat activated, directional say 15 degrees and activates 15 degree LED's that track his movements while leaving everything else dark, especially if he's in the center of 4 or 5 of them!

      --
      Apocalypse Cancelled, Sorry, No Ticket Refunds
    80. Re:Light pollution by DJCacophony · · Score: 1

      Wow, I need to find one of these magic stocks that invariably increases in value 10+% every year above the inflation rate.

      --
      Slow Down, Cowboy! It's been 60 minutes since you last successfully posted a comment.
    81. Re:Light pollution by budgenator · · Score: 1

      I've spent hours out on my deck at night watching the bats swoop and dive to capture a feast of insects attracted to the street light across the street. In Grayling Michigan on the military reservation there are wide swaths fo forest that are clear-cut and the litter burnt to provide habitat for the endangered Kirtland Warbler, these areas also provide excellent nesting areas for the Common Nighthawk and they also love to feed on insects in streetlights near dusk and dawn.

      --
      Apocalypse Cancelled, Sorry, No Ticket Refunds
    82. Re:Light pollution by sjames · · Score: 1

      Actually, for much of our existance, we would go to sleep a bit after sunset, then wake up for a while and have some quiet time and perhaps visit with a neighbor, then have our second sleep untim morning. The time before second sleep was seen as a special time for deeper thinking.

    83. Re:Light pollution by kylehase · · Score: 1

      It's easy to filter out the full spectrum. Duct tape or black paint seems to work well.

      --
      You want fun, go home and buy a monkey!
    84. Re:Light pollution by scharkalvin · · Score: 1

      The kind of sodium lamps used in most streetlights are NOT monochromatic.
      The LOW PRESSURE sodium lamps are monochromatic, but are not used often in street lights because of that. HIGH PRESSURE sodium lamps ARE NOT monochromatic and are the type most often used. Too bad, since the LOW PRESSURE lamps deliver more light per watt (10% - 50% more depending on the wattage).

    85. Re:Light pollution by redbaritone · · Score: 1

      Ahh, grow up. Astronomy is so 10 Billion light years ago.

    86. Re:Light pollution by Grishnakh · · Score: 1

      Me too. Though I'm not sure if a pellet gun is accurate enough at a block's distance. A silenced .22LR rifle would be a great solution for a problem like this.

    87. Re:Light pollution by Grishnakh · · Score: 1

      Yes, because everyone on the planet works on curing cancer. Different people excel at different things - are you going to suggest stopping progress in everything until cancer is cured?

      A lot of things could be stopped until cancer is cured, to refocus those resources on curing cancer. For instance, we could eliminate 75% of the restaurants in America, and dedicate all the workers to working on a cure for cancer. And we could eliminate most of the landscaping work being done, and have those workers work on a cure for cancer instead.

      See, you're not thinking like a manager. A true manager knows that all workers are just like interchangeable cogs in a machine.

    88. Re:Light pollution by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Streetlight pollution is only one problem. But what would really bug me is the idea that some ass-clowns out there actually getting their hands on these and putting them to inappropriate use in an automotive application. It's already pretty bad that the clueless are installing non-UV shielded high UV emitting HID xenon lights with aftermarket kits that they don't even bother to f'ing align properly. (Which would be easy to fix if police would actually bother reviewing and enforce DOT-spec vehicle codes already on the books.) Now do I really want such idiots playing with an even more powerful kit? I hope this invention stays expensive or in limited use for a good while.

    89. Re:Light pollution by untaken_name · · Score: 1

      Yes, I pretty clearly stated that local overpopulation is possible. That doesn't mean that if a bunch of people die in a different country, that it's going to benefit you at all.
      As far as environmental problems, they're either localized or impossible to change. If localized, then they should be dealt with in that locale. If impossible to change, then we just need to adjust to them.

    90. Re:Light pollution by kesuki · · Score: 1

      well, LEDs were invented in the 1960s, so perhaps your dismal world view is the more likely one, but at least in the Christmas light arena LEDs are picking up steam, although there are some pretty awful horror stories about LED Christmas lights, at least one (flicker) can be rectified by building your own full wave bridge rectifier with $5 in parts from Radio Shack and Home Depot... just use google to get the plans and then head over to radio shack to get the parts..

      still a quick google about energy efficient leds bring up numerous websites either selling high efficiency led bulbs or articles mentioning companies promising to deliver energy efficient led lighting to the home.

      one such article claims that a 5.8 watt lamp will deliver the equivalence of a '60 watt bulb' worth of lighting
      http://www.thedailygreen.com/green-homes/eco-friendly/led-efficient-lighting-461128
      if this company isn't all hype, then they've already gotten an led to 140/lumen per watt (or else they're shaving lumens and it's really less bright than a 60 watt bulb)

      we won't have long to wait to find if the company is real "Hunter said he hopes to debut the brighter and more efficient lamps by the end of 2008. The first buyers will likely be wholesale distributors, followed by consumers off store shelves by 2009."

      although i do know there are plenty of people out there making claims and promises that are unrealistic (just check my sig) with the hopes of fooling people into investing money in fraudulent ventures, also, not all vendors of LEDs are equal there are things that can be done to manufacture higher quality leds, and processes that can be used to discard/recycle bad bulbs before the customer ever sees them, but not every company out there Cares if they sell a quality product or not. in fact most are just after profit, who cares about anything else. the same problem comes about when buying blank DVDs there are about 3 companies that only sell top grade media (world wide) and there are about 40 companies that sell class anywhere from class 1 to class 4 media, and you can't tell by the packaging what you're going to get either. the companies that themselves produce class 1 media, and buy from a company Known To sell Class 4 media, drive me nuts, class 4 is worthless except to scare birds away or as a coaster, and i unfortunately ended ended my 'winning streak' with tdk lately by getting just one of those class 4 bundles... luckily i bought from new egg, so they let me get a different brand, and there i scored with class 2 or class 1 media. but honestly now I'm considering only buying from the 2-3 companies that only sell class 1 or class 2 media and never buy from the discount companies.

  3. Commercial use by Dan+East · · Score: 3, Insightful

    Such high operating temperatures would not be acceptable for domestic use - the risk of fire would simply be too great. But commercial use, specifically for streetlights as the summary mentions, would be ideal. The amount of power consumed by streetlights world-wide must be staggering, so any improvement in efficiency, even in just this single area of light generation, would be substantial.

    --
    Better known as 318230.
    1. Re:Commercial use by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Interesting

      I'm pretty sure 6000K refers to the color temperature, I don't think a streetlight could ever reach 5727 Celsius without frying people around it.

    2. Re:Commercial use by csnydermvpsoft · · Score: 2

      Additionally, if it really generated that much heat, it couldn't possibly be as efficient as even the worst incandescents.

    3. Re:Commercial use by exploder · · Score: 4, Informative

      Temperature isn't the whole story. Regular tungsten-filament incandescent bulbs operate at about 3600K, but it's a tiny filament, and encased in glass, so it's not much of a hazard.

      A 6000K plasma may even be safer, depending on the density of the plasma.

      --
      Yo dawg, I heard you like the Ackermann function, so OH GOD OH GOD OH GOD
    4. Re:Commercial use by hardie · · Score: 1

      I don't see this as an issue for domestic use. Plain old incandescents have a filament temperature of about half that.
      Remember, the temperature is within a small bulb.

    5. Re:Commercial use by Cowclops · · Score: 5, Informative

      Heat and temperature are not the same thing. If it produces 140 lumens per watt, I believe that makes it something like 50% efficient (which is insanely high for lighting). That means a 100 watt lightbulb of this technology would turn 50 watts or so into heat, and 50 watts or so into light. A 100 watt incandescant is turning 85 watts into heat and 15 watts into light. So even if it runs at a higher temperature, its confined to a very small space.

      This isn't dangerous at all.

    6. Re:Commercial use by exploder · · Score: 2, Informative

      Temperature is not heat. Once you've got a 6000K plasma (probably not all that costly in terms of energy due to low mass), the amount of energy it takes to maintain that temperature can be quite low. I'm sure the mechanism is very well-insulated thermally.

      --
      Yo dawg, I heard you like the Ackermann function, so OH GOD OH GOD OH GOD
    7. Re:Commercial use by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I'm pretty sure 6000K refers to the color temperature, I don't think a streetlight could ever reach 5727 Celsius without frying people around it. It will still fry peoples eyes and skin without a filter. At 6000K it will be putting out a shitload of UV just like the Sun (which also has a surface temperature of about 6000K).
    8. Re:Commercial use by Geoffrey.landis · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Additionally, if it really generated that much heat, it couldn't possibly be as efficient as even the worst incandescents.

      To the contrary. The eye's range of sensitivity is tuned to the solar spectrum, emitted at a blackbody temperature just a bit below 6000 K. A bulb is most efficient if it emits light in the spectrum that the eye is sensitive to, and not in, say the infrared spectrum. So a bulb emitting blackbody spectrum becomes more efficient as the emission temperature goes up, and peaks in efficiency at around 6000.

      Incandescent bulbs are not inefficient because they are too hot-- they are inefficient because they are not hot enough. They run somewhere about 2500 or 3000, and hence most of the light is emitted in the infrared, not the visible.

      --
      http://www.geoffreylandis.com
    9. Re:Commercial use by TubeSteak · · Score: 3, Interesting
      http://news.google.com/news?q=Luxim

      http://www.ecogeek.org/content/view/1466/74/

      However, their talk of efficiency is a bit sensationalist. ZDNet makes it sound like this is the most efficient bulb out there. Actually, the Luxim bulbs are roughly the same efficiency as high pressure sodium lamps (the yellow-tinged ones that are often used for streetlights.)
      --
      [Fuck Beta]
      o0t!
    10. Re:Commercial use by Smidge204 · · Score: 1

      Not to mention that halogen bulbs get up to 3000K or more. Why is 6000K too dangerous but 3000K just fine for something you put on your desk?

      =Smidge=

    11. Re:Commercial use by flyingfsck · · Score: 1

      Actually, lighting is only about 1% of total electricity consumption. So switching bulbs to more efficient designs make sweet blue all difference in the greater scheme of things.

      --
      Excuse me, but please get off my Pennisetum Clandestinum, eh!
    12. Re:Commercial use by Twinbee · · Score: 1

      Not sure about your stats if we look at Wikipedia. Assume the new bulb is 50% efficient at generating light, then a standard incandescent bulb is actually only around 5% efficient. 95% of the energy is converted to heat.

      Additionally, the new bulb they've created is actually more like 25% efficient (I know perfect efficiency (683 lumens per watt) is only for green monochromatic light, but even so).

      --
      Why OpalCalc is the best Windows calc
    13. Re:Commercial use by asc99c · · Score: 1

      No, it does reach that heat, but in a very small area and doesn't radiate too much heat. Normal incandescents reach about 3000 C and don't fry everyone because only the filament is at that temperature - the glass bulb is hot enough to burn your fingers but nowhere near the temperature of the filament.

      Somewhat paradoxically, at a higher temperature, more radiation is of the visible light spectrum and less is waste heat. So these lights will radiate less heat because they are hotter.

    14. Re:Commercial use by poopdeville · · Score: 4, Informative

      This is color temperature. Color temperature has absolutely nothing to do with the temperature that a bulb operates.

      Oh lord.

      What do you think color temperature is? It is the temperature at which an ideal black body radiator emits a given light spectrum. It most certainly has to do with the temperature at which an incandescent bulb operates. The hotter the bulb gets, the higher the color temperature. And moreover, the smaller the light emitter becomes, the closer color temperature and operating temperature become.

      In this case, it would be physically impossible for a light of any sort to give off that much energy and only consume the amount of electricity available to even a street light.

      Temperature isn't energy. Temperature is energy density. For a given amount of energy, the smaller the emitter is, the hotter it will be.

      My space heater uses 1500watts and requires I believe 12amps to operate and it would never be able to get anywhere near 6000k even if it were to ignite.

      And? The heat emitter is huge. Scale it down to about a 10th its size and run 1500W through it. It will glow a nice bright white before melting.

      --
      After all, I am strangely colored.
    15. Re:Commercial use by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Are you kidding me?! Heat as a problem? It's a matter of perspective! Slightly modify a lamp for structural ability, and BLAMMO! You have a lamp that doubles as a hot plate! Heat water for tea or coffee while you code in hte middle of the night. It's more efficient that using a second device to do the heating!

    16. Re:Commercial use by rs79 · · Score: 3, Informative

      Um, folks? All this 3000K and 6000K talk does not mean temperature, it's the color of the light. 5000K is white, or at least the color of equitorial sunlight at noon in the equator, 2700k is tellowish soft light, 7500K is the color of noon in Norway.

      It's the color of a body of iron at those temperatures in Kelvin. This has nothing to do with the temperature of the bulb, that is a 7500 degree Kelvin 4 foot fluorescent bulb may be 7500K *in color* but it's barely 80 degrees F in operation. Although degrees Kelvin measures heat like Celsius and Farenheight, it also means "color" becaise of the black body of iron thing.

      I'm guessing this lamp is hot but it aint in the thousands of degreesm kelvin or otherwise althouhg I'm quite sure it's a 6000K bulk or whatever.

      140 lumens per watt is good but not earth shattering - this is what (high pressure) sodium lamps do already - and are the most efficient bulbs mankind makes. So this is as good but no better than the best we have now. What is good about it is it's small, most plasma lamps aren't.

      I'd be interested in knowing what happens to the amount of light per watt as the bulb is made smaller and larger.

      Sadly TFV did bad^H^H^Hhorrible things to my machine and there was no FA to read but I'm sure if it's really feasable I'll hear about it soon enough. Not like with those sulfur microwave lamps from a few years back that had similar claims.

      --
      Need Mercedes parts ?
    17. Re:Commercial use by tomhudson · · Score: 1

      Not to mention that halogen bulbs get up to 3000K or more. Why is 6000K too dangerous but 3000K just fine for something you put on your desk?

      Psst ... halogens can cause fires. Try putting a towel on one of those 300 vatt bulbs for floor lamps and watch how, within seconds, you have a "problem".

    18. Re:Commercial use by mikael · · Score: 4, Interesting

      In the video, the inventors mention that the Argon gas at the centre of the bulb (size of a christmas tree bulb) reaches the temperature of the surface of the sun (6000C). Given the small size of the bulb, there is probably a very steep temperature gradient (otherwise the glass tube would melt). But the energy is dissipated by emitting light of all wavelengths, not just in the infra-red region of the spectrum. I'd be worried about getting sunburn or cataracts from something like this.

      --
      Vintage computer adverts: http://www.vintageadbrowser.com/computers-and-software-ads
    19. Re:Commercial use by cjanota · · Score: 1

      It bothers me when people are this condescending without RTFA. In the video, the guy states 6000K actual temperature.

      --
      You can fix anything with duct tape and sticks.
    20. Re:Commercial use by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Informative
      Actually, lighting is only about 1% of total electricity consumption. So switching bulbs to more efficient designs make sweet blue all difference in the greater scheme of things.

      Lighting at 8.8%.

      Lighting at 22%.

    21. Re:Commercial use by TopherC · · Score: 1

      I thought CFLs and LEDs gained good efficiencies because the visible spectrum is small compared to usable blackbody spectra. LEDs and CFLs have line emissions that are entirely (or mostly) in the visible spectrum. A full-spectrum light source might be efficient if you integrate over all frequencies, but I'm sure a large fraction of this emission will be in the UV or IR ranges (86% I believe). For our eyes, this is less efficient. See http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Luminous_efficacy

    22. Re:Commercial use by JohnFluxx · · Score: 2, Informative

      The post that you are referring to talked about incandescent bulbs and the light bulb in the article. Both of those do operate at a temperature of several thousands of degrees, very close to the temperature color that it emits.

    23. Re:Commercial use by king_nebuchadnezzar · · Score: 1

      Actually the video says that the gas actually does get up to 6000K

    24. Re:Commercial use by nick_davison · · Score: 1

      So even if it runs at a higher temperature, its confined to a very small space.

      This isn't dangerous at all. You pierce the side of a regular lightbulb and it'll maybe shatter and you might get some hot glass on you. Worst case you manage to brand yourself with the tungsten wire.

      You pierce a CFL, you get almost enough mercury for the Mad Hatter to raise an eyebrow. Little enough that you can fairly safely clean it up on your own. Large enough that EPA standards imply you need the famous $2,000 clean up crew.

      Anyone care to suggest what [I assume is] very high pressure plasma, at 6,000K (~10,000F) will do when there's a small hole between it and a much lower pressure room?

      Look Mommy! I made a working scale model of the Deathstar!
    25. Re:Commercial use by Smidge204 · · Score: 1

      An incandescent bulb can cause a fire too. What's your point?

      As many have pointed out, temperature is not heat. A single atom that has an effective temperature of a billion degrees isn't gonna cause a fire, but a billion atoms that have an average effective temperature of a few hundred degrees easily will.
      =Smidge=

    26. Re:Commercial use by dangitman · · Score: 1

      Yes, but you are talking about Color Temperature. The story just mentions temperature, without the color bit. A very different beast. Of course, the story is probably mistaken. Which is what this sub-thread is all about.

      --
      ... and then they built the supercollider.
    27. Re:Commercial use by tomhudson · · Score: 1

      An incandescent bulb can cause a fire too. What's your point?
      My point was that the GP was trying to intimate that halogen bulbs aren't a real fire hazard. Having seen a halogen bulb start a fire within seconds, I know that's not true ... same as even regular incandescents can, under the right circumstances, cause fires.

    28. Re:Commercial use by Pictish+Prince · · Score: 1

      You may not be able to see UV but plants can use it. Any lighting source that purports to be natural must emit UV. Things don't look right under incandescent lighting because a lot of things fluoresce under UV.

      --
      Only his tendency toward a dazed stupor prevented him from screaming aloud.
    29. Re:Commercial use by ortholattice · · Score: 1
      First, I believe the "yellow-tinged" ones are low-pressure sodium lamps (although "tinged" is a kind of ambiguous word, so I'm not sure exactly what is meant). High-pressure ones put out more or less white light. Second, it is true that the Luxim bulbs put out about as many lumens/watt as HPS (which put out 100-150 l/w), but LPS are more efficient, at 200 lumens/watt.

      The problem with LPS is that a lot of people don't like the color, which is almost monochromatic, and a lot of colors look strange under the lighting (blues become black etc.). But I don't know of anything that is more efficient, and for street lighting the color seems a small price to pay for saving up to half the energy. Nonetheless a lot of communities have voted down LPS in favor of HPS for aesthetic reasons.

    30. Re:Commercial use by niker · · Score: 1

      Actually, the Luxim bulbs are roughly the same efficiency as high pressure sodium lamps (the yellow-tinged ones that are often used for streetlights.)

      Actually, Low Pressure Sodium lamps are often used for streetlights. Just a nitpick, I know you didn't write that, but I think it's just terrible to mix good facts with wrong ones - indeed, both HPS and LPS have a yellow tinge to it, LPS lamps being practically monochromatic, unlike HPS. Also, for the GP poster,let me add that 140 lum/W is not "insanely" high, just pretty good by today's standards.
      --
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    31. Re:Commercial use by Smidge204 · · Score: 1

      I never said they can't cause fires. I said they were safe. Specifically, safe enough to have one on your desk. Huge difference there.

      =Smidge=

    32. Re:Commercial use by caerwyn · · Score: 1

      Disperse extremely rapidly- and cool just as rapidly as a result. There's probably a reasonable range of danger for flammability, but anything beyond a short distance is perfectly safe. I'd say the bigger danger would be that such a fracture in the glass would probably cause it to somewhat explosively shatter, and the glass fragments could pose a danger.

      --
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    33. Re:Commercial use by NeverVotedBush · · Score: 1

      Uh, actually temperature *is* heat. More correctly, it is a measure of heat.

      What people are getting confused about is heat capacity. A plasma (in this case) can be extremely hot but not take that much energy to make it hot.

      Think about your oven. How is it that you can set it to 400 degrees yet open the door and not get horribly burned? The air in the oven is 400 degrees. Why doesn't it burn skin like touching the racks, the walls, or the pans inside would? It's because the air has a much lower heat capacity than the the metal parts of the oven because it is a gas.

      The capsule is also very small. The smaller amount of something you have to heat up, the less energy it takes to heat it to whatever temperature.

      The Luxim bulbs are essentially little inductively-coupled plasmas. There are no electrode wires to conduct heat out so all there is is a gas in a glass tube and that gas can be pretty easily heated to very high temperatures.

    34. Re:Commercial use by LilGuy · · Score: 1

      If only I had mod points...

      I got a good chuckle out of your reply, along with the parent being modded +5 insightful.

      --

      You're nothing; like me.
    35. Re:Commercial use by forand · · Score: 3, Informative

      Generally what is discussed is black body emission (yes it sounds odd). You need to get a black body to these temperatures to emit the corresponding light. Now since TFA states that the light is full spectrum then it necessarily needs to be at around 6000K to "look" like 6000K. Lights that do not emit at full spectrum do not need to be at the the temperature but instead need to mimic it to our senses.

    36. Re:Commercial use by tomhudson · · Score: 1

      It depends on the lamp. a 75 watt halogen desk lamp can easily start a fire if tipped over, or papers get pushed against it.

      That being said, how likely is anyone on slashdot to have a desk lamp actually on their desk ... I've got 5 in here, and they're all sitting on top of bookcases, to give mor even light. With the monitors, keyboard, printer, papers, etc., there's no ROOM for a lamp on my desk.

      Plus, I found that desk lamps actually sitting on the desk give the worst possible lighting.

    37. Re:Commercial use by Strange+Ranger · · Score: 1

      This is insightful if you're strictly speaking about color temperature.
      But it does sound like you mean actual temperature, which would be completely backwards and wrong.

      You can buy daylight corrected compact fluorescents that run at about 6400 Kelvin, Color Temperature.
      They're so efficient they're cool enough to hold in your hand when they're on.

      If they were anywhere near 6400 K in actual thermal temperature, your whole house would burst into flames as soon as you turned one on.
      Not to mention you'd cause a brown out for blocks.

      --

      Operator, give me the number for 911!
    38. Re:Commercial use by puppet10 · · Score: 2, Informative

      The color of the light is directly related to its temperature if you are generating the light by heating something up (rather than a fluorescent where you are using an atomic or molecular excitation).

      So in the case of an incandescent bulbs the temperature of the tungsten filament is close to the observed color temperature of the light as the filament is close to being a blackbody radiator (although the bulb itself will be cooler since it is not in direct contact with the filament producing the light).

      Since the person in the video explicitly states the full spectrum is daylight-like spectrum is due to the temperature of the plasma in the bulb being around 6000k it is likely (though the person describing in the video may be mistaken - however he is likely better briefed than you or I) that the light is generated from a heating process close to a blackbody radiator although again it is unlikely the bulb envelope itself would be at the 6000K temperature as the plasma would be contained in a small volume within the bulb.

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    39. Re:Commercial use by Mr.+Freeman · · Score: 1

      God forbid you actually read the article. It says right there that it gets to 6000K.

      Just because it's hot doesn't mean that it's going to cook anything around it. There's science involved here that I don't understand, but common sense (and a video of this guy standing right next to the damn thing) tells me that we aren't in danger of being fried by this streetlight.

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    40. Re:Commercial use by Mr.+Freeman · · Score: 1

      Why is this modded informative? The video in the article said that the bulb does, in fact, reach 6000K.

      --
      -1 disagree is not a modifier for a reason. -1 troll, flaimbait, redundant, overrated are NOT acceptable substitutes.
    41. Re:Commercial use by J.R.+Random · · Score: 2, Informative

      Um folks, when you're talking about black body radiation the "color temperature" is the temperature. And the glowing object doesn't have to be iron. Glowing argon emits the same way. The video makes it clear that that bitty argon light is 6000 K at the core. I'm sure it's much cooler at the surface of the bulb. With a core temperature of 6000 K most of the energy will be emitted as visible light, not infrared, which of course is the point.

      Fluorescent lights do not produce light via black body radiation so their "color temperature" has nothing to do with their real temperature. Likewise with LEDs.

    42. Re:Commercial use by Planesdragon · · Score: 1

      In this case, it would be physically impossible for a light of any sort to give off that much energy and only consume the amount of electricity available to even a street light.

      *sigh*

      If it takes 200 newtons to move 1 kilogram 1 meter in one second, how fast do you think 200 newtons will move gram? (psst -- a heck of a lot closer to a kilometer than a meter.)

      Your space heater spreads heat thorugh itself, and all of the air around it. A light bulb builds temperature in an area about the size of your heater's plug.

    43. Re:Commercial use by Jesus_666 · · Score: 1

      CFLs aren't incendescent lights and they work completely differently than incendescents. Try touching a halogen spot that has been running for a while. That's an incandescent light and it does get quite hot.

      --
      USE HOT GRITS WITH STATUE OF NATALIE PORTMAN (NAKED AND PETRIFIED)
    44. Re:Commercial use by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      140 lumens per watt is good but not earth shattering - this is what (high pressure) sodium lamps do already - and are the most efficient bulbs mankind makes. So this is as good but no better than the best we have now. What is good about it is it's small, most plasma lamps aren't.

      ---

      actually, high pressure sodium lamps produce monotone color, not white light. they are the orangish street lamps you see many on major highways in urban areas and industrial districts. white light at the same efficiency seems like a decent step forward to me...

    45. Re:Commercial use by Quino · · Score: 1

      The video proclaims that the gas *is* heated to 6000 Kelvin.

      "as hot as the surface of the sun" the guy from the company proclaims. "which is why the spectrum looks like the spectrum from the sun".

      The excited gas that produces all of the light seems to be of the same volume as a tic-tac -- insanely small.

      Also, to the posters above, the whole light pollution thing is completely irrelevant -- old luminaries (probably the bulk of the installed base in American cities) spilled light upwards, above the horizontal. The dark skies initiative (from what I've seen) puts limits the light that you accidentally spills upwards from street lights (among other things), how bright the lights you use that point upward can be (and limits the use of the same to special cases: airports, etc.), and provides guidelines as to how bright that parking lot really needs to be at 3 am ... which has zero to do with how efficient the bulbs doing the polluting need to be.

      Not only that, but I've seen some data showing (from a vendor, so salt taken) that shows that the closer to the spectrum of natural light is, the lower ambient light we need to see well ... so we can turn those light-polluters down if they're better tuned to the spectrum our eyes evolved to detect ...

      (It'd be sad to see a discussion on better efficiency get derailed by a complete non sequitur)

    46. Re:Commercial use by ChrisMaple · · Score: 1
      High pressure lamps are not monochromatic because the high pressure tends to spread the spectrum significantly. They are very strongly dominantly yellow.

      A low pressure sodium lamp is more nearly monochromatic.

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    47. Re:Commercial use by Strange+Ranger · · Score: 1

      You're right. But I didn't mention incandescents above.
      Oh but I see you replied to my other post as well.

      Reading both your replies they seem to agree with what I wrote. The whole point being that color temperature is very different than regular thermal temperature.
      Otherwise your TV would get really hot every time there was show about fire.

      --

      Operator, give me the number for 911!
    48. Re:Commercial use by Non-Huffable+Kitten · · Score: 1

      My point was that the GP was trying to intimate that halogen bulbs aren't a real fire hazard. No, he was indirectly replying to the guy who said that a 6000K streetlight would fry the people around it.
      --
      Medium cat is MEDIUM.
    49. Re:Commercial use by NormalVisual · · Score: 1

      The two are one and the same in this context. "Color temperature" refers to the spectrum given off by an ideal black body at the given temperature, and is kinda redundant when speaking of incandescent sources since they produce their light by black-body radiation. To get a 6000K spectrum with an incandescent source, whatever is glowing in the lamp (the tiny bit of argon gas in this case) will need to actually be at that temperature.

      --
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    50. Re:Commercial use by rm999 · · Score: 1

      The most exciting part of this to me is "full-spectrum light." One of my biggest pet peeves about human populated areas (and there are a lot) is the orange glow of street lights. They create an obnoxious orange glow everywhere - even the sky turns bright orange. Also, they cause all other color to be washed out.

    51. Re:Commercial use by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Disclaimer: I have a PhD in plasma physics, but am not an expert in lighting. Given the power density and the fact it is an argon plasma, I assume this is modestly ionized plasma that has a temperature that should be around 6000-8000 K. This would be minimal to sustain a plasma under these circumstances.

      Although this is pretty nifty technology, the problem is that it does not scale. Yes, it is efficient, but you cannot make a device that has say a tenth of the power with a tenth of the light output for home use. This thing would give off about as much light as 8 normal fluorescent lamps compressed in a tiny speck. Putting this in a room would give very inhomogeneous lighting, with some spots that are way too bright and some spots that are completely dark (i.e. shadows). It would be like having a tiny Sun in your room, instead of the homogeneous blanket of light fluorescent lamps provide. Another disadvantage is that you cannot look into it without huring your eye, so you would need a fixture with mirrors to diffuse the light somewhat.

      For street lights, they are more efficient than normal high-pressure mercury lamps, but not as efficient as low-pressure sodium lamps (the orange street lights). However, the cost might be an issue, as the driver electronics can be quite expensive (far more expensive than the bulb).

    52. Re:Commercial use by meatmanek · · Score: 1

      According to TFV, the argon inside of the bulb actually is operating at 6000K (temperature).

    53. Re:Commercial use by Chrontius · · Score: 1

      High pressure sodium lamps are monochromatic. Efficient, yes. Color-correct, no. These things will provide better resolving power per watt than sodium lamps, despite the same lumen count.

    54. Re:Commercial use by ceoyoyo · · Score: 1

      Ah, the show about fire was nothing. Now that documentary on the ocean, and that other one all about clouds (with lots of blue sky thrown in)... wow!

    55. Re:Commercial use by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      To the contrary. The eye's range of sensitivity is tuned to the solar spectrum, emitted at a blackbody temperature just a bit below 6000 K.

      It's always interesting the sheer number of things in the human body that seem tuned by evolution for us to be productive or even exist given the environment we have. I have to wonder how many more things have to be pointed out before people realize evolution isn't that capable nor is there proof that it is. It is only the default assumption that no one seems to care to question. Evolution is beginning to be a cop out. Mention any property about the human body and if no reason for that property's existence can be thought of then evolution giving it to us is the excuse for it's existence without any evidence to back it up. How much more blind faith are people going to put into it?

    56. Re:Commercial use by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      God bless HD Discovery, Smithsonian, and National Geographic.

    57. Re:Commercial use by EvanED · · Score: 1

      This is true, but at least some people feel that halogens are rather more of a fire risk than incandescent. I don't know if the data supports this, but I do know that many colleges ban halogen lights in dorm rooms for that reason.

    58. Re:Commercial use by EvanED · · Score: 1

      You pierce the side of a regular lightbulb and it'll maybe shatter and you might get some hot glass on you. Worst case you manage to brand yourself with the tungsten wire.

      Well, worst case is the broken glass slices your wrist or something like that.

      Large enough that EPA standards imply you need the famous $2,000 clean up crew.

      Even the EPA doesn't say that.

      Anyone care to suggest what [I assume is] very high pressure plasma, at 6,000K (~10,000F) will do when there's a small hole between it and a much lower pressure room?

      Probably not much. There is such a tiny amount the actual amount of heat energy contained would be small. Perhaps lower than what is in your incandescent.

    59. Re:Commercial use by Alioth · · Score: 1

      It's not an improvement in efficiency, it's a significant regression in efficiency. Low pressure sodium lamps, available for decades and used for streetlighting, is 180 watts per lumen - 40W/lumen better than this new lamp. Replacing low pressure sodium lights with this would significantly increase streetlighting energy usage.

    60. Re:Commercial use by fishnuts · · Score: 1

      You have your figures backwards, and need to be updated on what a "lumen" is.

      First, these bulbs are 140 Lumens per watt. Not "watts per lumens"

      Second, since they're broad spectrum lamps, as opposed to sodium lamps which are very narrow spectrum, the human eye is much more able to acquire a usable image from an environment illuminated by the more natural broad-spectrum light, and therefore can get away with using less power to light up the same area.

      Third, the "lumen" is a measure of perceived light intensity. A lamp that produces 1000 lumens in a narrow spectrum centered around the 570nm-590nm range (like those orange sodium lamps) APPEARS more intense than a broad spectrum lamp that produces only 300 lumens. What matters is not the intensity of the light, but how it's distributed across all the colors the human eye can see (and needs to render a clear image for us to recognize)

      In closing, what good is a high-intensity Lumen orange/yellow narrow-spectrum lamp when what we need to see is mostly in the blue-green-yellow spectrum? These broad-spectrum lamps are more efficient in energy consumption mainly because they don't need to be as "intense" for us to see more of the colors illuminated by the lamp.

    61. Re:Commercial use by budgenator · · Score: 1

      Many lights in your home run at comparable temperatures, and I've used incandescent lights that were 5500K, warm-white halogen run 3000K, cool-white run arround 4100K and daylight fluorescent bulbs run from 5000 to 6500K; your confusing temperature with heat, you want high temperature with little heat.

      --
      Apocalypse Cancelled, Sorry, No Ticket Refunds
    62. Re:Commercial use by budgenator · · Score: 1

      the HPS, high pressure sodium, will also run on the same ballasts as the common mercury vapor lights where LPS, low pressure sodium require the ballast to be changed increasing the conversion costs.

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      Apocalypse Cancelled, Sorry, No Ticket Refunds
    63. Re:Commercial use by budgenator · · Score: 1

      in a plasma light bulb high pressure means something between, "not very good vacuum" to "almost air pressure when warmed up"; the bean sized bulb would be more likely to implode than explode.

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      Apocalypse Cancelled, Sorry, No Ticket Refunds
    64. Re:Commercial use by budgenator · · Score: 1

      In the electrode-less lamp, hot-spot outerwall temperatures in the 800-900C range were achieved with some external air flow despite inner wall loadings of greater than 250 W/cm2. Long-Life True-Color Projection Displays Using LIFI(TM) Light Sources


      you'd want to let the bulb cool off before you touched it at 800-900 C you could barely see a dull red glow if your eye are sharp, but that's not a lot more than halogen bulbs, several that we use at work are air cooled such as a 50 watt hand-held curing light
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      Apocalypse Cancelled, Sorry, No Ticket Refunds
    65. Re:Commercial use by budgenator · · Score: 1

      no that's exactly what it means a plasma or incandescent bulb with a blackbody color temperature has to be at least at the color temperature average physically; now you have to remember that temperature is a statistical phenomena so a plasma with a color temperature of 6000K is going to have some atoms much hotter and more atoms much cooler but the average is going to be 6000K. Certain materials have an electronic configuration that are more likely to be at a particular temperature and emit photons at the corresponding energies than at other temperatures; by mixing differing materials you can select emissions at certain peaks, then by adjusting the pressures in the plasma get the peaks to smooth into a smooth spectra.

      --
      Apocalypse Cancelled, Sorry, No Ticket Refunds
    66. Re:Commercial use by Alioth · · Score: 1

      Monochromatic light (and therefore vision) is quite acceptable for street lighting though. We don't need to be able to perceive colours for utility lighting at night, there just needs to be sufficient illumination to see where you're going.

      Of course, astronomers prefer low pressure sodium, it's easy to filter. Broad spectrum will put the final nail in the coffin of back yard astronomy unless you live somewhere remote.

  4. Full sun spectrum?? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Funny

    Does that mean - it gives off Xray and gamma ray?
    cancerous while stay indoor?

    1. Re:Full sun spectrum?? by Geoffrey.landis · · Score: 0

      Does that mean - it gives off Xray and gamma ray?

      No.

      --
      http://www.geoffreylandis.com
    2. Re:Full sun spectrum?? by zymano · · Score: 2, Interesting

      No different than any plasma given off by an Arc welder.

      Hazardous UV. You get quite a sunburn like some welders.

      Not good for the eyes either. All wasted energy too.

    3. Re:Full sun spectrum?? by Pictish+Prince · · Score: 1

      Does that mean - it gives off Xray and gamma ray? No. Yes it does, just not very much. The blackbody radiation curve for any temperature above absolute zero is non-zero for every wavelength.

      --
      Only his tendency toward a dazed stupor prevented him from screaming aloud.
    4. Re:Full sun spectrum?? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Hazardous UV. You get quite a sunburn like some welders. Not good for the eyes either. All wasted energy too.

      This is a solved problem.

      bulbs' envelopes are made out of hard glass, or out of quartz 'doped' with additives to block most of the UV output (hard glass blocks UV without need of dopants).

  5. Price? by danaris · · Score: 4, Insightful

    So...how much does it cost compared to an incandescent? Or an LED?

    Dan Aris

    --
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  6. Not as low energy as you think by 93+Escort+Wagon · · Score: 5, Informative

    I found it interesting that the tiny bulb - at least in the video - was still using 250 watts and internally generated a temperature of 6000K (no they weren't talking color temp; they were talking actual temp). Now that's certainly lower than the 400 watt conventional streetlight they compared it to; but there's no mention in the video about scalability or low-power use. So the submitter's comment about it having advantages over compact fluorescents may have no basis in fact.

    --
    #DeleteChrome
    1. Re:Not as low energy as you think by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      but still, replacing current streetlights with those will probably save shitload of power and as a bonus, will probably pay themselves in a couple of
      months

    2. Re:Not as low energy as you think by MrSteveSD · · Score: 3, Interesting

      but there's no mention in the video about scalability or low-power use

      Well they say in the video that it is almost 10 times as efficient in terms of Lumen's per watt (140 vs 15 for a normal bulb). I assume what you mean though is that the new argon bulb might not be able to run at lower powers. So if you just wanted a 60 Watt bulb equivalent, it might not be possible. Is that what you mean?
    3. Re:Not as low energy as you think by Scrameustache · · Score: 1

      I found it interesting that the tiny bulb - at least in the video - was still using 250 watts and internally generated a temperature of 6000K (no they weren't talking color temp; they were talking actual temp). Now that's certainly lower than the 400 watt conventional streetlight they compared it to; but there's no mention in the video about scalability or low-power use. So the submitter's comment about it having advantages over compact fluorescents may have no basis in fact. Stick one right outside your window, pointing in, and you have daylight at night.
      --

      You can't take the sky from me...

    4. Re:Not as low energy as you think by MattskEE · · Score: 1

      When they turn on the light in the video the brightness ramps up over the course of a second or two. I'm not sure if this is because of a dimming control or just the starting up process, but it seems feasible that it could be operated at reduced power levels with the appropriate control circuitry, though there is no telling if that will cause an efficiency hit until they release more details.

    5. Re:Not as low energy as you think by GuldKalle · · Score: 1

      I know I'd be pretty pissed if I got to the bathroom at night, turned on the light and got a 35000 lumen spotlight in my face :)

      --
      What?
    6. Re:Not as low energy as you think by fermion · · Score: 1
      The article did state the light source under discussion is an order of magnitude more efficient than a incandescent bulb. It is unclear if they are talking about color temperature or surface temperature, i will agree that it was probably surface temperature. I don't know how this will be scaled down, as the key here is high temperature plasma. How little material can you have and still have a viable plasma?

      Fundamentally, this appears to be an arc vapor type bulb, like in projectors. While such a bulb is relatively efficient and is an excellent light sources, it has drawback for even some commercial use, and certainly home use. For example, even with insulating layer of vacuum, the surface gets very hot and makes the room hot. This is not only a safety issue, but also is an issue in cooling the room. What you no longer pay for in light, you pay for in air conditioning. This is one are where fluorescents are superior.

      I can't see this as a long term solution. The overhead to using these lamps have always made them a niche player. For instance, the insulating layers and radiation protection. Fluorescents, even with the mercury issue, are probably still the better solution. LEDs are going to suffer the same fate of Fluorescents. Not really enough money in it to develop the product. Until LEDs are mandated, which won't happen until someone figures our how to make money off it, we will be using fluorescents. Incandescent will likely be banned in 5 years.

      --
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    7. Re:Not as low energy as you think by Tony+Hoyle · · Score: 2, Funny

      Don't worry it wouldn't be a problem for long :p

    8. Re:Not as low energy as you think by fireboy1919 · · Score: 1

      I don't think you understand everything.

      What they're doing is synthesizing excited bromide in an argon matrix. It's an excimer frozen in its excited state.

      It's a chemical laser but in solid, not gaseous, form. Put simply, in deference to you, Escort Wagon, it's like lasing a stick of dynamite. As soon as they apply a field, they couple to a state that is radiatively coupled to the ground state. I figure they can extract at least 10 to the 21st photons per cubic centimeter which will give one kilojoule per cubic centimeter at 600 nanometers, or, one megajoule per liter.

      Which is, of course, hotter than the sun and much more efficient than fluorescents.

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    9. Re:Not as low energy as you think by nbritton · · Score: 2, Interesting

      Color temperature is (for the most part) a subset of actual black body temperature:

      http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Black_body
      http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wien's_displacement_law
      http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spectroscopy
      http://www.youtube.com/view_play_list?p=095393D5B42B2266&page=2

      Anyhow, these new lights are a major breakthrough... If they can get them into the hands of the general public relatively quickly.

    10. Re:Not as low energy as you think by Chris+Oz · · Score: 2, Interesting

      These lamps are actually pretty average regarding power and life. Street lamps have a much longer life span, typically achieve at least 150-160 lm/w and up to 200 lm/w at their most efficient. The main thing going for these lights is the fact that they are broad spectrum. I found the video interesting in that they didn't allow enough time for the street lamp to warm up. Sodium vapor lamps require at least a couple of minutes to reach their operating level. This was obviously deliberate. There is not way that a 140 lm/w running at 250w is going to beat a 400 w street light at 150 lm/w. The same thing goes for the LED. They claim that leds only achieve around 70 lm/w. That was true about a year ago, commercially available units (http://www.dealextreme.com/details.dx/sku.2394 107~114lm 350mW (1w)) now achieving around 100-120 lm/w for the medium power (a 3w device operating at around 1w). It looks like they will reach around 200 lm/w at high power in a couple of year. Ultimately it is likely that leds will reach around 300 lm/w. LED life span is also way higher ~22 years as opposed to 2 years. I am sure that this light will have its applications. However, unless its efficient and life span can be ramped up, sodium vapor lights will continue to dominate for the near term with leds dominating the world in the future.

    11. Re:Not as low energy as you think by Attila+the+Bun · · Score: 1

      Well they say in the video that it is almost 10 times as efficient in terms of Lumen's per watt (140 vs 15 for a normal bulb).

      I wonder how this wonder bulb is cooled? According to their efficiency claims, roughly 200W is being lost as heat in a glass envelope the size of a tic-tac. Not many materials can stand that kind of power density for long. Is there a 1kW water pump somewhere they forgot to mention?

      By the way, sodium vapour lamps get around 100 lm/W, so the potential efficiency gains for streetlighting are less than devastating. It will be much more interesting if the argon bulb can be used as domestic lighting, instead of those god-awful fluorescent things.

    12. Re:Not as low energy as you think by 93+Escort+Wagon · · Score: 1

      I assume what you mean though is that the new argon bulb might not be able to run at lower powers. So if you just wanted a 60 Watt bulb equivalent, it might not be possible. Is that what you mean? Yes, exactly. I'd like to know if this will still work if the bulb were 25 watts instead of 250 (with brightness scaled accordingly); or even at 2.5 watts. Basically, is there a minimum power below which this process doesn't work?
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    13. Re:Not as low energy as you think by NormalVisual · · Score: 1

      Yeah, but can you make popcorn with it?

      --
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    14. Re:Not as low energy as you think by NormalVisual · · Score: 1

      There is not way that a 140 lm/w running at 250w is going to beat a 400 w street light at 150 lm/w.

      Sure it can - it may not beat it in actual energy output, but the eye's sensitivity is not linear across the entire visible spectrum. Almost all of the light from a low-pressure sodium lamp is at wavelengths well below the sensitivity peak for the human eye. The new lamp may not actually *be* brighter, but it certainly could *look* brighter, and that's all that really matters for the intended purpose.

      --
      Please stand clear of the doors, por favor mantenganse alejado de las puertas
    15. Re:Not as low energy as you think by Chris+Oz · · Score: 1

      Sure, but it is not that much of an advantage. If you watch the video it looks like the sodium vapor is a quarter of the output of their new "super product". If it was actually that much better they would have let the sodium vapor warm up. I don't know about you but if it was that much better they wouldn't have to cheat.

    16. Re:Not as low energy as you think by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Does it run Linux?

      Will it blend?

      Can you imagine a Beowulf cluster of these??

  7. Where's the story? by KillerCow · · Score: 2, Interesting

    I went to the link, but it was just an obnoxious video ad. And no, I didn't sit through it.

    I know that a lot of the stories on here are ads in disguise, but this one isn't even hiding. I didn't realize that slashdot was an a linking to unabashed ads now.

    1. Re:Where's the story? by Scrameustache · · Score: 1

      I went to the link, but it was just an obnoxious video ad. And no, I didn't sit through it. The story was right after the ad. And no, 30s wasn't too long to wait for it.
      --

      You can't take the sky from me...

    2. Re:Where's the story? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      OMG an ad?!? I can't believe you were subjected to that. You should submit a YRO story right now about how your precious time was wasted by someone who doesn't believe everything has to be given away for free. It's a sure front pager.

  8. Long life projectors by epilido · · Score: 3, Funny

    The company makes many different forms of lighting including projectors http://www.luxim.com/ A home projector with 10 times the bulb life would let me watch just that much more porn in my mom's basement.......

    1. Re:Long life projectors by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Funny
      A home projector with 10 times the bulb life would let me watch just that much more porn in my mom's basement......

      Small world: your mom makes porn in my basement.

    2. Re:Long life projectors by Jesus_666 · · Score: 2, Funny

      This bulb is not yet ready for use in projectors. First they have to make it easy to inadvertantly break, hideously expensive and extremely hot while at the same time not very heat resistant. Industry standards, you know.

      --
      USE HOT GRITS WITH STATUE OF NATALIE PORTMAN (NAKED AND PETRIFIED)
    3. Re:Long life projectors by NormalVisual · · Score: 2, Funny

      Don't forget making it into such a form factor as to make it entertainingly difficult to change. Some kind of heavy bayonet-type plug that requires one to push in against an overly-strong spring while twisting on the extremely hot and delicate bulb would be my choice. Extra points to be awarded for making the glass envelope strong enough to work during use but long enough to guarantee breakage while changing it. After all, if you're going to get badly burned, you might as well get cut while you're there.

      --
      Please stand clear of the doors, por favor mantenganse alejado de las puertas
  9. In Soviet Russia by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Funny

    In Soviet Russia, 6000K burns you! Oh, wait...

  10. Ok, sombody's got to say it..... by 3seas · · Score: 4, Funny

    Thats a bright idea.

    1. Re:Ok, sombody's got to say it..... by jadin · · Score: 1

      I'm getting burned out on comments like this.

    2. Re:Ok, sombody's got to say it..... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Socket to me then.

    3. Re:Ok, sombody's got to say it..... by Tumbleweed · · Score: 1

      Anyone who doesn't think this is a bright idea is clearly a dim bulb.

    4. Re:Ok, sombody's got to say it..... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0
      Judging by your low User ID you are probably aware that you can lower the score for any 'funny' post which will hide lame puns like this.

      While it is a lame pun it's worth noting, that cliche comes from the invention of the light bulb so it was certainly on topic!

    5. Re:Ok, sombody's got to say it..... by jadin · · Score: 1

      Judging by your low User ID you are probably aware that you can lower the score for any 'funny' post which will hide lame puns like this.

      While it is a lame pun it's worth noting, that cliche comes from the invention of the light bulb so it was certainly on topic! whooosh!
  11. COLOR temperature, not thermal temp by JonTurner · · Score: 2, Informative
    When they say "6000K temperature" they mean color temperature, not thermal. 6000K color temperature is a match for natural sunlight.

    http://www.fullspectrumsolutions.com/cri_explained.htm
    Provides a table of other light sources for comparison and a bit of discussion about color theory.

    Some examples of some common and competitive light sources color temperature and CRI values are:
    # Candle: 1700k 100 CRI
    # High Pressure Sodium: 2100k 25 CRI
    # Incandescent: 2700k 100 CRI
    # Tungsten Halogen: 3200k 95 CRI
    # *Solux Bulb: 4100k 98 CRI
    # Cool White: 4200k 62 CRI
    # *Ott-Lite(TM) Pro: 5000k 82 CRI
    # Clear Metal Halide: 5500k 60 CRI
    # *Verilux® "Natural Spectrum®": 5500k 82 CRI (also called HappyEyes® and Trucolite Phosphor Technology(TM))
    # Natural Sunlight: 5000-6000k 100 CRI
    # *BlueMax(TM): 5900k 96 CRI
    # Daylight Bulb: 6400k 80 CRI
    # *Sharper Image Bright as Day(TM) Lamp: 6400k 80 CRI (also called "wide-spectrum","daylight spectrum","natural spectrum")
    # *NextTen SunWhite® Lamp: 6400k 82 CRI
    # *Bell&Howell Sunlight Lamp: 6500k 80-85 CRI
    # *FirstStreet Balanced Spectrum®: 6500k 84 CRI

    *=Marketed as a "full spectrum" or similar to sunlight source
    but to answer your point, yes a six thousand degree F bulb would be impractical for home use. :)
    1. Re:COLOR temperature, not thermal temp by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Informative

      WTFV (watch the .. video). The temperature they're talking about really is 6000K in heat.

      As other shave pointed out, this is not too much of a problem for household use as ordinary incandescents reach 3600 at the filament. You just need to encase it in a glass bulb.

    2. Re:COLOR temperature, not thermal temp by poopdeville · · Score: 5, Informative

      In light physics, temperature and color temperature are the same thing. Color temperature refers to the temperature at which an ideal black body radiator will emit such a spectrum. This unit is obviously a temperature.

      Moreover, this lamp appears to be a high bandwidth lamp -- "full spectrum" as they said. This implies that it does not depend on the absorbsion and emission characteristics of specific atoms. Lamps like these -- fluorescents, high efficiency sodium lamps, and the like -- emit light at discrete wavelengths. High bandwidth lamps depend on incandescence to produce light. Indeed, color temperature doesn't make sense for these kinds of lamps -- no black body radiator will emit discrete spectra. (There's a "corrected" color temperature unit for these lamps used in the lighting trade)

      The point is: these lamps get hot. They reach about 6000K.

      --
      After all, I am strangely colored.
    3. Re:COLOR temperature, not thermal temp by poopdeville · · Score: 1

      I mixed up my pronouns. I mean that fluorescents and similar lamps do not rely on incandescence, so the black body model is not appropriate.

      The lamp from the article appears to rely on incandescence (as we can conclude from the fact that it is a high bandwidth lamp), and so its temperature at the point of emission is close to its color temperature.

      --
      After all, I am strangely colored.
    4. Re:COLOR temperature, not thermal temp by DougBTX · · Score: 2, Informative

      In this case, they really do mean 6000K. See: http://www.physorg.com/news125238861.html It sounds like this thing gives off a black body spectrum, and operates at the same temperature as the surface of the sun. The sun gives off (almost) a black body spectrum too, so they have similar colours. This is probably how your colour chart above is defined, and why you talk about "colour temperature" in the first place: it's the colour of a black body at that temperature.

    5. Re:COLOR temperature, not thermal temp by Scrameustache · · Score: 1

      When they say "6000K temperature" they mean color temperature, not thermal. When they say (and I cite) "in the middle of the chamber, the plasma will be six thousand kelvin temperature", you don't think they are talking about the temperature of the plasma inside the chamber?
      --

      You can't take the sky from me...

    6. Re:COLOR temperature, not thermal temp by Strange+Ranger · · Score: 1

      The point is: these lamps get hot. They reach about 6000K.

      Sorry but that's wrong. Like most photographers, I calibrate my monitor's white point to 6500K.
      My monitor is cool to the touch.

      If you're still not convinced look here

      Tungsten bulbs, the kind in most household lamps, are about 3000K. That's the color temperature. I don't think any of us have 3000 degree bulbs in our house.
      Or you can think of it this way... Take colored plastic wrap like you'd use for food, wrap it around a light bulb. You can change the color temperature to be much hotter with blue plastic wrap, or much cooler with red plastic wrap. You don't change the actual temperature much. Blue flame burns hotter than red flame, but when you use plastic wrap on a light bulb instead of an ideal black body it's called color temperature, not actual temperature.

      This little light uses less energy, so it should be much cooler at the same brightness as other bulbs.

      --

      Operator, give me the number for 911!
    7. Re:COLOR temperature, not thermal temp by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      "temperature and color temperature are the same thing"

      What the fuck?!? No they are NOT. Grr... Stop modding up dumbasses that just post shit from Wikipedia but have no understanding of it. Temperature is a measure of entropy of a system in thermal equilibrium or on your level, the faster the little balls move, the higher the temperature. CCT is not the same thing. Fluorescent lamps are not that freaking hot, no way, no part of them.

      "these lamps get hot. They reach about 6000K."

      YOU ARE A FUCKING MORON. STOP SPREADING BULLSHIT LIES. IF YOU DON'T KNOW WHAT THE FUCK YOU ARE TALKING ABOUT JUST SHUT THE FUCK UP. YOU ARE HINDERING HUMAN PROGRESS WITH YOUR LIES YOU FUCKING TOOL!

    8. Re:COLOR temperature, not thermal temp by LilGuy · · Score: 1

      My monitor is on a 9300K color setting. No wonder my room is always so much hotter than the rest of the house.

      --

      You're nothing; like me.
    9. Re:COLOR temperature, not thermal temp by Geoffrey.landis · · Score: 2, Informative

      In light physics, temperature and color temperature are the same thing.

      Correction, for a blackbody, in physics, temperature and color temperature are the same thing.

      For an object which is not emitting as a blackbody, "color temperature" means, basically, the temperature that a blackbody would have to be at in order to emit the same color of light, where "color of light" has mostly a lot to do with physics of perception, and not physics of light. For an object that's not a blackbody, "color temperature" is not the same as temperature.

      --
      http://www.geoffreylandis.com
    10. Re:COLOR temperature, not thermal temp by Jesus_666 · · Score: 2, Informative

      Neither your monitor nor a light bulb with colored plastic wrap are blackbody emitters. Your monitor relies on causing small elements to emit very specific wavelengths of light; having these elements close together allows for mixing. The light bulb emits light from a quite hot filament and then you selectively remove certain wavelengths with the plastic wrap.

      It kind of makes sense to assume that an incandescent light source is hot because, to quote the all-knowing Wikipedia, incandescence is the release of electromagnetic radiation, usually visible radiation, from a body due to its temperature.

      --
      USE HOT GRITS WITH STATUE OF NATALIE PORTMAN (NAKED AND PETRIFIED)
    11. Re:COLOR temperature, not thermal temp by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The tungsten filament of your light bulb actually reaches 3000K, which is why it's a 3000K bulb. Because it's in a vacuum or low-pressure inert gas, the envelope (the part you touch) only gets to be a few hundred K.

      Your monitor and fluorescent lamps only simulate their color temprature, while incandescent light sources such as tungsten lamps and the one in the article actually make something as hot as their color temprature. In the case of this article, it's a plasma encased in a small glass bulb that gets to 6000K to emit light.

      dom

    12. Re:COLOR temperature, not thermal temp by celtic_hackr · · Score: 1

      Obviously, since it is a "plasna" light we are talking about very hot ionized gas, since that is what a plasma is. Yes this tiny light may be hot in a very small and localized area, which must be isolated from other parts of the fixture so as not to melt them. Iron melts at 1812K, so many iron alloys won't work here. In fact I know of no pure metal that would not melt above 2800K except tungsten which melts at 3695K, putting it in first place. TiC ceramic melts at 3313K, and I don't know of any element or compound that would not melt at 5100K, under normal atmospheric conditions. Although I know that the boiling point for diamond is 5100K. The boiling point mind you not the melting point, at this temperature you will evaporate the diamond into a gaseous state. So I doubt this temperature is anything more than a localized temperature in the enclosed gas chamber, if that. It is possible the surface of the tic-tac sized bulb is too hot to touch while lit. Also 5100K is about the temperature on the surface of the Sun, hence this bulb will produce artificial sunlight quite accurately. Fluorescent bulbs are also plasma bulbs, but they use CCT values rather than actual black-body thermal values. Incandescent bulbs are true black-body emitters and the surface temp of the tungsten filaments are about 2700K or better. It may be that the video is mistaken and the 5100K temperature is CCT ("color correlated temperature") and not black-body temperature. If it is the case that the bulb is 5100K CCT then it could be cool to the touch since we are not talking about black-body emissions.

    13. Re:COLOR temperature, not thermal temp by Prune · · Score: 1

      Funny you should quote a site engaging in seriously deceptive marketing.
      Rebuttal: http://solux.net/ultraluxfalsedata.htm

      --
      "Politicians and diapers must be changed often, and for the same reason."
    14. Re:COLOR temperature, not thermal temp by timeOday · · Score: 1

      Forget the temperature for a minute. These use about 0.1 the energy to produce the same amount of light, so the amount of (fire-starting) energy is vastly less than the lightbulbs you're using right now. If something is super-hot but also super-tiny, it can't do much damage. The sparks from static cling are super-hot, too.

    15. Re:COLOR temperature, not thermal temp by poopdeville · · Score: 1

      For an object which is not emitting as a blackbody, "color temperature" means, basically, the temperature that a blackbody would have to be at in order to emit the same color of light, where "color of light" has mostly a lot to do with physics of perception, and not physics of light.

      Yes, I was summarizing. Incandescents are very accurately modelled by black bodies (especially as the lamp gets small and hot), but "discrete" lamps like fluorescents are definitely not (since they don't emit a continuous spectrum). Lighting people use the "corrected" color temperature (CTT) unit to measure the "color" of those lights. As you said, that unit depends on psychological factors.

      --
      After all, I am strangely colored.
    16. Re:COLOR temperature, not thermal temp by poopdeville · · Score: 1

      Tungsten bulbs, the kind in most household lamps, are about 3000K. That's the color temperature. I don't think any of us have 3000 degree bulbs in our house.

      You would be wrong. The coil which emits light reaches 3000K. There's a vacuum between the coil and the glass. This is why you can touch a lamp without getting third degree burns.

      --
      After all, I am strangely colored.
    17. Re:COLOR temperature, not thermal temp by Strange+Ranger · · Score: 1

      I'm amazed. That's incredibly hot.

      --

      Operator, give me the number for 911!
  12. video wont play in firefox... by HelloKitty · · Score: 1


    does anyone have this problem? there's really no content there, when the video doesn't play. ;(

    1. Re:video wont play in firefox... by Nibbler999 · · Score: 1

      Make sure you have a flash plugin installed.

  13. Beware - Parent post links to a virus by mcpkaaos · · Score: 4, Informative

    The "nasty police helicopters" link is no bueno. No clicking!

    --
    It goes from God, to Jerry, to me.
    1. Re:Beware - Parent post links to a virus by PhireN · · Score: 3, Funny

      Oww, My eyes.
      Don't click that link

    2. Re:Beware - Parent post links to a virus by linal · · Score: 1

      I read /. most days and this is the third article i've read today that has had a link to a virus infected site? Is it the same user's IP whose posted them? Can't the mods do something about it. It's not a problem to me because the viruses are targeted at windows but still its taking the piss a little.

    3. Re:Beware - Parent post links to a virus by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Insightful

      I laughed at 2girls1cup, lold at beheadings, accidents, gore, vore, scat, etc. if something inside me has died, that was the weak part. I am retarded now.
      Fixed that for you.
    4. Re:Beware - Parent post links to a virus by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Anyone want to analyze that link and figure out what they did and if it is harmful?

      I expect I am safe with Firefox 2.0.0.12 on Mac OS X 10.3.9 but....

    5. Re:Beware - Parent post links to a virus by PhireN · · Score: 2, Informative

      It managed to overload Firefox 3 beta with infinite popups. First time I've seen a popup in ages.

  14. Okay, that was just too awesome! by Fantastic+Lad · · Score: 1
    Yes, it was just a little video bite, but the demo was wild!


    I realize that for some reason, lighting technology punches one of my geek buttons. I was super-pumped about white LED technology, and this just blew me away. The bulb was the size of a Jelly-Belly jelly bean, and it out-shone a street lamp fixture the size of a jumbo hot-dog while burning a whole lot less power. How gee-whiz is that?

    At 6000K, though, it's not going to be in my living room, but I'll be really happy to see this in street lamps. And it looks like the parts are going to cost pennies per unit. I love lighting technology. What a super-geek I am!


    -FL

    1. Re:Okay, that was just too awesome! by John+Hasler · · Score: 1

      > At 6000K, though, it's not going to be in my living room...

      I hate to be the one to break it to you, but I have to tell you that your incandescents are already running at 3000K. If you are so into lighting technology perhaps you might try to find time to actually study up on the subject.

      --
      Warning: this article may contain humor, sarcasm, parody, and perhaps even irony. Read at your own risk.
    2. Re:Okay, that was just too awesome! by inKubus · · Score: 4, Informative

      6000K? Who cares? The thing is, this bulb is generating about 10 times the lumens per watt of input power as a standard incandescent. That means that it is dissipating more energy in the form of light and less in the form of heat. Regardless of the internal temperature of the plasma, how "hot" the bulb gets is really a function of the actual dissipated energy. For instance, a spark of static electricity has an extremely high "temperature" but it doesn't burn you. Granted, some of that energy might be occuring in the infra-red range, but I doubt it will be any hotter than a normal bulb.

      Also, if you look at HPS (high-pressure sodium vapor) lamps, the orange ones they use for street lights, the vessel that produces the light is actually quite small. There is an internal tube (made of quartz, I think) that holds the sodium. For the first few minutes, the bulb appears blue because you are seeing an arc in the center of it. After the sodium boils and then turns into a plasma, it is in a higher energy state and starts throwing off photons.

      The only difference in this bulb is they are eliminating the electrodes and using a different plasma. They use a high frequency RF that's tuned to the resonate frequency of the gas. Sort of like a microwave does for water, but this is more focused. The gas resonates and becomes a plasma. Then it starts throwing off photons. Your efficiency is limited by how efficiently you can make your RF circuit and amplifier and how focused you can place the RF. I imagine they are quoting the theoretical efficiency but they probably haven't achieved it yet.

      --
      Cool! Amazing Toys.
    3. Re:Okay, that was just too awesome! by Scrameustache · · Score: 1

      At 6000K, though, it's not going to be in my living room Do you have regular light bulbs in your living room?
      "When electric current flows through the filament, it heats the filament to a temperature of about 3000 C (about 5000 F), causing the filament to glow and provide light."
      --

      You can't take the sky from me...

    4. Re:Okay, that was just too awesome! by shbazjinkens · · Score: 1

      There is an internal tube (made of quartz, I think) that holds the sodium.
      It's actually aluminum oxide. There may be bulbs with quartz, but I haven't seen them. Aluminum Oxide will be cloudy in appearance.
    5. Re:Okay, that was just too awesome! by dajak · · Score: 1

      Ouch. Better replace the incandescents with candle flame or kerosene lamps then. Much safer.

    6. Re:Okay, that was just too awesome! by avandesande · · Score: 1

      There was a company that was developing a similar bulb that used a lump of elemental sulfur. Not sure what happened to them.

      --
      love is just extroverted narcissism
  15. Somebody please correct my math... by Wolfrider · · Score: 3, Informative

    But isn't 20,000 hours only a little more than 2 years?


    365 * 24 == 8760

    20,000 / 8760 == 2.283


    Is that right, or am I way off?

    --
    .
    == WolfriderV6 == I'm willing to admit that *I just might* be wrong... Are you??
    1. Re:Somebody please correct my math... by epilido · · Score: 5, Informative

      Lights are not on all of the time. if less than 12 hours use which is likely than your calculations put the life at 5 years in a street light configuration.

    2. Re:Somebody please correct my math... by SeaFox · · Score: 1

      But isn't 20,000 hours only a little more than 2 years?

      Remember that CFLs have a life span of 5000 - 8000 hrs.
    3. Re:Somebody please correct my math... by Tony+Hoyle · · Score: 1

      They're actually billed as 6-12 years, but don't have anything like that in real use.

      I suspect the same for this technology too.

    4. Re:Somebody please correct my math... by SeaFox · · Score: 1

      They're actually billed as 6-12 years, but don't have anything like that in real use.

      You're looking at the wrong place on the packaging. The hours of life figure is with the lumen output, which you should check so you don't buy a bulb that claims to be "75w equivalent" only to find the manufacturer has a poor perception of what an incandescent 75w bulb puts out for light.
    5. Re:Somebody please correct my math... by ShadowBlasko · · Score: 1

      Actually, my basement CFL's are coming up on 5 years next month. Both unshielded and operating in fairly damp environment that also gets bumped around a lot.

      They are on around 18 hrs per day (We do wildlife rehab, and they are ambient low level lighting for the area, not direct, they are in a smaller room off the main room room with the door open)

      I am quite impressed at this point with them.

      --
      There are 4 boxes to use in the defense of liberty: soap, ballot, jury, ammo. Use in that order- Ed Howdershelt Via Tass
    6. Re:Somebody please correct my math... by serutan · · Score: 1

      Cheapo incandescent light bulbs are rated to burn for 750 hours, which is about 6 months at 4 hours of use per day. More expensive ones go 1000 hours. Compact fluorescents last 10,000 hours -- more than 5 years. So these argon jobs should average 10 years before replacement. If they get these into a form factor for home use they could easily compete with compact fluorescents. The real cost of a light bulb is in the electricity it uses.

      If electricity costs 10 cents per kilowatt-hour, in 20,000 hours you would use:
      Incandescents: 20 75-watt bulbs in 10 years, plus $160 for electricity
      Compact Fluorescents: 2 bulbs in 10 years, $48 for electricity
      Argon: 1 bulb, $24 for electricity

      A couple years ago I replaced all my incandescent household bulbs with CFs. They have saved me hundreds of $$/year in electricity, and I have replaced exactly two bulbs. One was defective; the manufacturer sent me a new one after a phone call to the 800 number printed on the bulb base. The other one I broke. The electricity saving made it worthwhile to throw away all the incandescents rather than wait for them to burn out. This was true even though I replaced 75-watt incandescents with 100-watt-equivalent CFs because I could only find CFs in 60 or 100-watt equiv. This might not be necessary with the argons, in which case their 10-year electricity cost would be only $12 instead of $16.

      If argons become available for home use, they could be priced more than 10 times higher than CF bulbs and still be cheaper over their lifespans, besides giving you full-spectrum light with no mercury. I will happily do another full round of replacements!

  16. Internal Temperature Doesn't matter. by John+Hasler · · Score: 4, Informative

    > Such high operating temperatures would not be acceptable for domestic use
    > - the risk of fire would simply be too great.

    Don't be silly. 6000K is the internal temperature of the gas. The filament in an incandescent lamp can reach 3000K. What matters is the external temperature, which is likely to be lower for a more efficient lamp.

    --
    Warning: this article may contain humor, sarcasm, parody, and perhaps even irony. Read at your own risk.
  17. Good News by RAMMS+EIN · · Score: 1

    Ah, some good news. We need more of that.

    --
    Please correct me if I got my facts wrong.
  18. 140 lumens/watt by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Insightful
    That's really efficient. http://www.otherpower.com/otherpower_lighting.html http://members.misty.com/don/lede.html

    The best modern available white LEDs (as of late 2007) produce about 60-90, maybe 98 lumens of light per watt of electricity delivered to the LEDs when the LEDs are supplied "typical" current or that at which their characteristics are specified. Many others that are in recent LED products achieve merely 20-45 lumens/watt. Most such white LEDs are and will be slightly more efficient when moderately underpowered and will usuallty be less efficient when overpowered.

    Taken in the context of some of the other posts, I have trouble believing their claim. If the product was that good, they would make it for general use not just video projectors. If the product was that good, it would be a real breakthrough because it beats LEDs by around 40%.
  19. Dual purpose? by fragMasterFlash · · Score: 1

    With an operating temperature of 6000k how many do I need to heat my house? Could a central array of these bulbs combined with optical fibers provide all my heating/lighting needs and still achieve power savings?

    1. Re:Dual purpose? by maroberts · · Score: 4, Informative

      Answer is (probably) you'd need more of them to heat your house than standard bulbs. This is more efficient at converting energy into light, so it actually produces less heat than a light bulb. It may get to 6000K, but only at a very small point, so the amount of heat produced is quite small. A big radiator full of hot water will be more effective in terms of heat output. A radiator has huge size but a lower output per unit volume, whereas this has a very small volume but a high temperature.

      It also says 6000K at its center; I'm not sure whether it transmits that heat to the casing or not.

      --

      Donte Alistair Anderson Roberts - hi son!
      Karma: Chameleon

    2. Re:Dual purpose? by Zaatxe · · Score: 2, Informative

      With an operating temperature of 6000k how many do I need to heat my house?

      That won't work, because the temperature it reaches has nothing to do with the amount of heat it emmits. Besides, if it's almost 10 times as efficient as ordinary bulbs, you would have 10 times as much light to get the same heat. You would get warm, but I doubt you would able to sleep with that much light.

      --
      So say we all
    3. Re:Dual purpose? by avandesande · · Score: 1

      Watts are watts. A 250 watt argon bulb will make the same amount of heat as a 250 watt incadecant. As the visible wavelengths are bounced around the room they are converted to heat energy.

      --
      love is just extroverted narcissism
  20. Low power, Light spectrum close to sunlight too by maroberts · · Score: 1

    Perfect for my indoor marijuana plantation.... :-)

    --

    Donte Alistair Anderson Roberts - hi son!
    Karma: Chameleon

    1. Re:Low power, Light spectrum close to sunlight too by Technician · · Score: 1

      Perfect for my indoor marijuana plantation.... :-)

      Um, not really. There are many colors plants don't use and some which are harmful to plants. Sunlight properly filtered is much better for plants. In Japan many years ago they did some fiber optic light pipe experiments for growing tomatoes. The filtering they used for preventing decay of the fiber optics was fantastic for the tomatoes and they got a huge crop.

      At the bottom of this page is a great overview of the wavelengths plants like and which are toxic.
      http://www.littlegreenhouse.com/guide3.shtml

      Black body radiators producing high color temperatures produce a fair amount of UV which should be filtered. They also produce a fair amount of IR and heat, which is useless to harmful.

      --
      The truth shall set you free!
  21. LEDs a better choice by Doofus · · Score: 0, Redundant

    This article repeats the 6000K figure for the Luxim device's operating temperature, which seems a bit toasty for widespread consumer adoption.

    Most incandescents and CFLs operate at half this temperature.

    LED-based lighting is safer and far more efficient than the Luxim device.

    --
    If the Government becomes a lawbreaker, it breeds contempt for law; ... it invites anarchy. - Brandeis
    1. Re:LEDs a better choice by epilido · · Score: 2, Informative

      per your link...... LED-based lighting is safer and far more efficient than the Luxim device. Hmm the efficiencies listed state 100 lumen's per watt the parent shows 140l/W seems like leds are not far more efficient. I realize that the article taht you linked doesn't have the most up to date stats on leds and that the recent led bulbs are better that the eiki link but not that much better.... And I am not sure where safer comes from

    2. Re:LEDs a better choice by Bob+MacSlack · · Score: 1

      "LED-based lighting is safer and far more efficient than the Luxim device."

      How do you figure?

      Luxim: 140 lm/W
      LED: up to 100 lm/W

      I'll agree with the safety being higher with LED, but I'm not sure the difference is important.

  22. Big Bites Only by Mondak · · Score: 1

    While these seem like they have a lot of promise for making great leaps when it comes to efficiently generating light, I don't think they scale downwards very well. Yes, a 250 watt one of these makes the same amount of light in lumens that it takes 500, 1000 watts or more for other efficient bulbs to make. The good news here is that this technology makes a case for for the lumens per watt crown. The thing is that you are still using 250 watts. If you don't need say 35,000 lumens to read by, I don't think you can make the technology work at say 25 watts. Maybe you can make a 500 watt one if you need more, but I suspect there is a floor that these things need to operate. Maybe someone can straighten me out if I am wrong.

  23. full spectrum? by Councilor+Hart · · Score: 4, Informative

    Full spectrum with an Ar plasma at 6000K ~= 0.5 eV? Yes, you can get a lot of light out of it and it looks white, but I wouldn't call it a full spectrum. There are mostly peaks in the region 900-1500 (I don't have a spectra right in front of me right now, so from memory). But I could be wrong of course.

    1. Re:full spectrum? by Councilor+Hart · · Score: 3, Informative

      argh, I am so used to these numbers I don't pay attention to the units anymore.
      That is 900-1500 nm.
      Another few tidbits:
      Ar plasma: white
      Ar + H2 plasma: red
      Ar + O2 plasma: purple-like
      Ar + N2 plasma: greenish
      Ar + too much current through the copper cathodes: priceless... (lots of copper sparks actually)

    2. Re:full spectrum? by Sycraft-fu · · Score: 3, Informative

      Full spectrum doesn't necessarily mean perfectly smooth. There are "full spectrum" CCFLs too. As far as I can tell it just means that the white is pretty neutral, and that the spectrum is close to, or 100%, covered. So while this light might not be totally smooth, if it covers 100% of the spectrum, it is full spectrum. Also, the peaks might be something that could be mitigated to some extent with a filter. There are incandescents that do this. The bulb has a bluish tint to it because there is a colour filter on the glass. The net effect is to give a more natural spectrum since incandescents are so heavy in the red-yellow area normally.

    3. Re:full spectrum? by acciaccatura · · Score: 0

      The guy in the video makes it sound like you would get the same "full spectrum" as you get from the sun. The problem is that the sun is on the other side of a huge filter called the atmosphere, and this lamp is on the same side as us. I don't think that his comparison is valid.
          I wonder too about the UV output, something which is rarely talked about. High UV can be very good or very bad, depending on the application.

  24. Crime goes DOWN... by Off+the+Rails · · Score: 1

    ...but do road accidents go UP?

    1. Re:Crime goes DOWN... by sjames · · Score: 1

      Considering the number of streets I see that are lit up like daytime and not another car in sight, probably not. It's not as if you're supposed to turn your headlights off while driving under streetlights. Further, I have seen lights go off as I approached often enough (random luck or over-sensitive sensor triggered by my headlights) and I have never seen an accident happen as a result.

    2. Re:Crime goes DOWN... by joto · · Score: 1

      Anecdotical evidence about accidents isn't really much help. How often do you regularly and directly observe traffic accidents yourself? Do you really believe you see enough of them to make your observations statistically significant? Besides, traffic accidents doesn't necessarily mean collisions between cars. Most streetlights are there for the benefit of pedestrians, who aren't always responsible or sober, and doesn't always wear reflectors, and besides, black will never go out of fashion.

      If we have to choose between streetlights in populated areas, and light pollution, the choice has already been made for you, a long time ago. Just go into the woods and put up your telescope there. Then again, pruce made a good point regarding choice of lighting when it comes to reducing light pollution.

    3. Re:Crime goes DOWN... by sjames · · Score: 1

      I have seen streetlights go out hundreds of times. Never once did it cause even a hint of trouble. I have NEVER heard a single report of an accident attributed to a streetlight going out. The same media that dearly loves to create a panic over absolutely any 'public danger you may not know about' has never reported even a near miss caused by a streetlight going out (but HAS reported on the dangers of electrocution from the ones where the access panels aren't screwed on).

      In other words, there is no evidence whatsoever that a streetlight going out has ever caused an accident anywhere. Got any counter examples?

      If we have to choose between streetlights in populated areas, and light pollution, the choice has already been made for you, a long time ago. Just go into the woods and put up your telescope there. Then again, pruce made a good point regarding choice of lighting when it comes to reducing light pollution.

      You do realise you can't actually do astronomy in the woods don't you (the leaves get in the way :-). Where I live now, many years ago the skies used to be pitch black other than the stars. Now there's a sickly pinkish orange glow that comes primarily form the city 30 miles away.

      As for the choice being made, that sounds like the same argument used at various times in favor of NOT controlling mercury, CO2, SO2 and other pollution. In a sense, it actually IS an argument not to work on CO2 since the power for all those lights has to come from somewhere.

    4. Re:Crime goes DOWN... by apoc.famine · · Score: 1

      A former astronomy professor of mine loves to intentionally confuse correlation and causation by pointing to studies which show that places with more lights have more crime. He does this to suggest that less lights would reduce crime, and benefit astronomy. The rest of us refuse with him to acknowledge that the mid-west US into the Rocky mts and Alaska were the biggest component of the "no lights and no crime" (and nobody living there) data.

      --
      Velociraptor = Distiraptor / Timeraptor
    5. Re:Crime goes DOWN... by sjames · · Score: 1

      :-)

      I certainly see the humor there, but I am actually talking about crime in well populated urban and suburban environments. Amongst other likely factors, if the nice law abiding citizens all stay huddled within the streetlights, their un adapted eyes can't see the ambush mugger in the shadows.

    6. Re:Crime goes DOWN... by Your.Master · · Score: 1

      It's not just the amount of light. Blinking lights are distracting.

    7. Re:Crime goes DOWN... by apoc.famine · · Score: 4, Informative

      As a former astronomer, that is patently obvious. However, humanity goes like moths to the lights. It is really hard to teach the average citizen that cutting the luminosity by 80% but tripling the number of lights will make an area much more safe. There is some bizarre connection between bright and safe, when "uniformly lit" would be far, far more safe, regardless of the brightness.

      I'm reminded of a time in my youth, when I was traveling by car with a group of friends. One road out of town has intense streetlights, spaced some distance apart. The darkness between them is amazing. As I blew down the road, definitely "under the speed limit" should any adult have asked, I came across a large, black dog, midway between two streetlights. I swerved across the road, onto the shoulder, and narrowly missed a mailbox and a tree. My friends behind me in another car had no idea what I was doing, until they also almost hit the dog.

      No matter how bright they make those streetlights, until there is *uniform* brightness, there will be danger. I wish I knew how to clearly point this out to people.

      --
      Velociraptor = Distiraptor / Timeraptor
    8. Re:Crime goes DOWN... by innocent_white_lamb · · Score: 1

      Got any counter examples?
       
      Kind of. I live across the street from a fancy restaurant. A couple of years ago the street lights on this block went out for about two weeks. I complained several times and so did the other businesses along this block, but it still took two weeks for them to fix the lights. What finally got them moving was when the police department got after them because the alarm on the restaurant was being "tested" regularly overnight by folks walking by in the dark.
       
      I know that I saw more police cars zipping up to that restaurant during the early morning hours (after midnight, when the restaurant was closed) during that two weeks than I have seen before or since.

      --
      If you're a zombie and you know it, bite your friend!
    9. Re:Crime goes DOWN... by sjames · · Score: 1

      When driving at night there are many flashes of light from random headlight reflections, signs, cars cresting hills, etc. away from urban areas, there's the strobe effect of street and headlights behind trees, etc. I've never found any of it to be a problem.

      Malfunctioning streetlights suddenly go out all the time. I've never heard of it being a problem.

    10. Re:Crime goes DOWN... by ultranova · · Score: 1

      When driving at night there are many flashes of light from random headlight reflections, signs, cars cresting hills, etc. away from urban areas, there's the strobe effect of street and headlights behind trees, etc. I've never found any of it to be a problem.

      Actually, that precisely is the problem. When it's dark, any random flash signifies something important. You see one and note: "There's something there." If the streetlights flicker on and off randomly, they will contribute noise to your observations, and consequently weaken your situational awareness. Not to mention the havoc they play on your night vision.

      Malfunctioning streetlights suddenly go out all the time. I've never heard of it being a problem.

      Malfunctioning streetlights are rare (at least where I live), and don't flicker on and off. They go off and stay off.

      --

      Forget magic. Any technology distinguishable from divine power is insufficiently advanced.

    11. Re:Crime goes DOWN... by sjames · · Score: 1

      The malfunctions I have seen often involve a cycle of about 5 minutes. The deliberate cycle I'm talking about is on the order of 15 to 30 minutes, not some constant thing.

      Of the sources of flashes I mentioned, only one (car cresting hill) represents situational awareness. My lights reflecting off of shop windows and a flashing motel sign are largely irrelevant to staying in my lane and avoiding obstructions. Lights 'strobing' between trees are necessarily partitioned off from my lane, so are not worth paying attention to.

    12. Re:Crime goes DOWN... by sjames · · Score: 1

      That sounds like a good case for a single small porch light rather than illuminating the entire area (40 Watts total rather than 3-7KW).

    13. Re:Crime goes DOWN... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      more lights = more $$$$

    14. Re:Crime goes DOWN... by ultranova · · Score: 1

      The malfunctions I have seen often involve a cycle of about 5 minutes.

      I haven't ever seen such a thing. Either the streetlights are dark or they are lit, but I've never seen one one flicker between these two states.

      The deliberate cycle I'm talking about is on the order of 15 to 30 minutes, not some constant thing.

      It does seem pretty pointless, thought. Either some area is heavily enough traveled that it warrants streelights or it isn't. It's completely pointless to turn them on for 15 minutes and then back off for another 15 minutes.

      My lights reflecting off of shop windows and a flashing motel sign are largely irrelevant to staying in my lane and avoiding obstructions.

      Such flashes show that there is a window or a motel there. That, in turn, indicates that the road doesn't go there. On a twisting path that gives valuable hints about where the road goes, especially if said flash is straight forward.

      Lights 'strobing' between trees are necessarily partitioned off from my lane, so are not worth paying attention to.

      Again, this depends from the shape of the road. If you're nearing a 90 degree turn, the lights which are behind the trees now might well be passing you on the opposing line there.

      --

      Forget magic. Any technology distinguishable from divine power is insufficiently advanced.

    15. Re:Crime goes DOWN... by sjames · · Score: 1

      It does seem pretty pointless, thought. Either some area is heavily enough traveled that it warrants streelights or it isn't. It's completely pointless to turn them on for 15 minutes and then back off for another 15 minutes

      Personally, I'd rather they just be shut off entirely, but people seem to have some sort of attachment to them. The cycling lights are proposed more for an anti-crime measure than for road safety. As far as driving goes, I generally find street lights more of a hinderance than a help with seeing where I'm going.

    16. Re:Crime goes DOWN... by tylernt · · Score: 1

      I came across a large, black dog, midway between two streetlights. I swerved across the road, onto the shoulder, and narrowly missed a mailbox and a tree.
      Always brake, never swerve to avoid a small animal such as a rabbit, cat, or dog. Better for the animal to die than to risk injury to a human on the sidewalk or the ones in the car.
      --
      DRM 'manages access' in the same way that a prison 'manages freedom'
    17. Re:Crime goes DOWN... by apoc.famine · · Score: 1

      Thanks mom! Did you make dinner for me too?

      I know this now. Did you somehow miss the part about "a time in my youth"? How about the part about it being a large dog? When one is 17 and bombing around at 11pm with a couple of friends on board and a couple more behind in another car, safe, responsible driving is not usually on tap.

      And besides - the worst I could do is clip a tree on that road at that time of night. I grew up in rural nowhere, and to be frank, it would have been worse to hit the dog. As it was, the best thing to do was what I did. If I had hit the tree, the owner probably wouldn't have been that pissed. $20 says the owner of the dog knew my dad, since everybody does. And it was a BIG dog. Plenty big enough to wreck the car.

      --
      Velociraptor = Distiraptor / Timeraptor
    18. Re:Crime goes DOWN... by joto · · Score: 1

      Look, I drive in a densely populated city center each night. I know that my ability to see pedestrians, pets, obstructions, etc, are severlely reduced when the streetlights are not functioning. I'm not here to get into a pissing contest about who has the seen most street-lights go out, or who has the most outrageous accident story to tell as anecdotical evidence. I'm here to point out that street lights are there for a reason, and that reason is to light things up. If people can't see because it's dark, they tend to get scared and/or bump into things, which cause accidents (regardless of whether it's a pedestrian run over by a car, or somebody bruising their knee as the fall on the pavement)

      Whether streetlights reduces crime is in my opinion of little interest, unless you can show statistics that shows it clearly has any noticeable effect. It might do, and if so, that's great, but I will not fall into the trap of American thinking (TM) where everything you do, is motivated by fear. I like streetlights in densely populated areas because they allow me to see better, not because they reduce crime.

      As for reduction of CO2 and light pollution, I'm all for it. I'm sure there are many places where street-lighting can be reduced or removed without noticeable effects, and as the fucking article tells, new technology can help even more. But the world is not black and white, and the benefits of having street-lights is also something worth caring for. This isn't a on-off issue, it's a tradeoff.

    19. Re:Crime goes DOWN... by sjames · · Score: 1

      Interestingly, you comment on American thinking doing things because of fear when I an advocating NOT doing something (street lighting) but offering a compromise out of the realization that many will not be able to let go of their fear. As a bonus incentive, I point out studies that show the fear based response to be somewhere between ineffective and counterproductive.

      If the pedestrians where you are have so much trouble staying in on the sidewalk, perhaps railings are in order. The added initial cost will easily be offset by the reduced ongoing costs.

  25. Street lights? by owlstead · · Score: 3, Interesting

    Why would we need street lights with a very strong light source using the same spectrum as the sun? What about putting one of these into a beamer instead? Or stadium lights? Every time somebody comes up with a great invention, they seem to want to use it for the weirdest things. Bright sun-light lite disturbs the wildlife anyway, bad idea...

    1. Re:Street lights? by timmarhy · · Score: 1
      "Why would we need street lights with a very strong light source using the same spectrum as the sun"

      i think you answered your own questions. oh and you know what else disturbs the wildlife? being run over by cars that can't see them because of poor lighting.

      --
      If you mod me down, I will become more powerful than you can imagine....
    2. Re:Street lights? by owlstead · · Score: 1

      In what I've experienced, changes in habitat are far more important than road kills, however ugly. Anyway, road kills get eaten.

    3. Re:Street lights? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The whole reason they're efficient is because they emit in the center spectrum we see. If they were emitting IR- as far as we're concerned they'd be 0% efficient at producing visible light. If you shift their center, you're likely to be somewhere short of their current efficiency- maybe not as much as current yellow street lights, but possibly?

    4. Re:Street lights? by blincoln · · Score: 1

      Why would we need street lights with a very strong light source using the same spectrum as the sun?

      Street lights give a dingy yellow or pink tinge to everything. I've seen a few areas that are lit by ~6500K lights at night, and they look much nicer.

      --
      "...always new atoms but always doing the same dance, remembering what the dance was yesterday." -Richard Feynman
    5. Re:Street lights? by timmarhy · · Score: 1

      from what i've seen, animals can adapt well to mild changes like lighting. they can not however adapt to a 60km\hr fender to the head.

      --
      If you mod me down, I will become more powerful than you can imagine....
    6. Re:Street lights? by owlstead · · Score: 1

      Hmm, I haven't got a degree in this, and I suppose you haven't either. Some roads here kill the lights at night, especially during bird breeding season, probably for a reason. But since it isn't likely neither of us are really experts, lets call it a draw :) It's useful technology, whatever it is going to be used for, that's for sure.

    7. Re:Street lights? by drsquare · · Score: 1

      I think you underestimate how big an effect light has on animals. And it's not like cars slam the breaks on if they see a goose crossing the road.

    8. Re:Street lights? by espiesp · · Score: 0

      Last I checked, we've already done a pretty good job of disturbing the wildlife anywhere streetlamps are concerned.

  26. Things I want to know by Nodamnnicknamesavial · · Score: 3, Insightful

    1. Scalability - will it scale for use in domestic lighting?

    2. Color temperature - will it do warm white or something similarly pleasant?

    3. Argon... isn't that toxic? (since the summary mentioned hazardous materials but didn't point that out, high school chem is so long ago..)

    4. Price if none of the above are problematic

    5. Time to market.

    If someone can answer those, I'll be genuinely interested :)

    --
    I have spoken'eth.
    1. Re:Things I want to know by asc99c · · Score: 4, Informative

      1) It scales down a bit at least. I'm pretty they were marketing it last year for projector bulbs at around 150W. Not sure whether it scales further down than that.

      2) 6000K is very close to sunlight so yeah it's a nice warm sunny light - should in theory be nicer than incandescent light anyway.

      3) No - it's a noble gas (unreactive) and naturally present in the atmosphere, making up nearly 1% of it in fact.

      4 and 5) Dunno. I was just searching for the projector bulb version and couldn't find any actually for sale, which given that it was announced half a year ago isn't great going :(

    2. Re:Things I want to know by dr2chase · · Score: 1
      I think you want to be careful with "just like sunlight". When I have seen "6000K light", it looks like it is lit by a welding arc. Sunlight is somewhat mediated by passage through our atmosphere, and it is also very intense. I think we perceive it as less blue than it is, at its normal intensity.

      While playing with color-temperature-spec'd LED arrays, what I find is that the ones that look more normal at interior brightnesses have color temperatures of 4100K or 3500K. "Daylight" looks darn blue.

      how-ev-er, while carpooling back from a kid-ski-trip with a physicist, we got to discussing LEDs and lighting in general, and he said that many of the phosphors are wavelength doublers -- there's got to be a load of UV in that light, if it's really 6KK, and it ought to be doubled down, which would even things out a bit.

    3. Re:Things I want to know by ceoyoyo · · Score: 1

      What sort of environment were you looking at these LEDs in?

      Your eyes (and brain) aren't particularly good at recognizing absolute colours, but they're fantastic at seeing relative ones. They tend to colour balance themselves to the dominant light source, and judge everything else in comparison.

      So if you were looking at 5000-6000 K LEDs in a room lit by incandescent or fluorescent then absolutely the LEDs would look like an arc welder. If you were looking at them in sunlight, they'd look much more neutral.

      You don't really realize this is going on except in certain circumstances. Try asking someone who does flash photography about standard fluorescents. They normally LOOK white, but (compared to sunlight, or a flash bulb) they're actually a really disagreeable green.

    4. Re:Things I want to know by nzin · · Score: 1

      yeah, and far more warm than led light. I bought some, it is funny, but the light make me thinking to hospitals. Not the best light for a lovely dinner with a girl :-)

    5. Re:Things I want to know by dr2chase · · Score: 1
      Indoors, but when we were trying to pick the right color LED light, it was the only light. I was comparing colors spec'd as "bright, cool, neutral, warm" -- actually "daylight", the brightest and bluest, never even made it. We were checking a known paint color, skin color, that sort of thing.

      Here's bright vs. cool, according to a camera. Hard to tell by camera, but up close our eyes had no problem at all. The photo is 3 and 3 of each.

      I'm guessing that it's not just relative, but saturation of receptors in bright sunlight. I remember sailing in Florida as a kid, without sunglasses, and alternating between my two eyes because it was too bright. And when I would switch, all the colors would change -- all the blue had dropped out of the now-tired eye, if I recall correctly. Further, our rods (low-light receptors) are skewed a bit to the blue -- they peak at cyan, not green (I learned this researching best colors for an LED bike light -- green did not make the cut, because of the green-go association). Think about how moonlight looks blueish --- that's just reflected sunlight, at a much reduced intensity.

    6. Re:Things I want to know by ceoyoyo · · Score: 1

      According to their published temperatures, the "Daylight" is maybe a bit blue for nice sunlight. It comes fairly close to the temperature of sunlight at noon. Still, if you turned out the other two lights (which are redder) and just used the daylight one, in a while you wouldn't see the blue tinge any longer.

      It works with dimmer lights too. I've got a "daylight" CF on one side of the room and an incandescent on the other side. The CF appears white, while the incandescent is distinctly yellow. If I turn off the CF (and wait a bit) the incandescent looks white. If I open the curtains both of them appear yellow, the incandescent more so. My monitor is (hardware) calibrated to 6500K. In an incandescent or fluorescent lit room white looks a bit blue. But I used to work beside a north facing window, where it looked quite yellow.

      Reflected color is another matter. If you put a paint chip under a modern light you could get pretty much anything. Under an incandescent it will have a continuous spectrum of light to reflect, even if overall it is fairly yellow light. If you put it under a fluorescent light only certain wavelengths are present. To a greater or lesser extent that is also true of LEDs. Just like with light sources, reflection sources can create the same colour in different ways, and can look really weird under any temperature light if certain wavelengths are missing.

      Moonlight can look bluish because we tend to look at it in relation to lights with low colour temperature. Incandescents, fluorescents, or street lights. If you go out in the country, in the dark, and let your eyes adjust, it looks pretty white.

    7. Re:Things I want to know by LMariachi · · Score: 1

      You are mostly correct, but fluorescent lights' green tinge is due to the sensitivity of film to the "green spike" in their output spectra. It's not so much a case of human eyes/brains adjusting our white balance to filter it out, as when viewing a 5500K source in a 3200K environment.

    8. Re:Things I want to know by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      It seems some products are using this technology already:

      http://www.hometheatermag.com/rearprojectiontvs/1007pana50lcz70/

  27. Wow imagine the argicultural uses by edwardpickman · · Score: 2, Insightful

    Full spectrum high efficiency lights would be a major boon to the pot.... I mean industrial hemp growers.

    1. Re:Wow imagine the argicultural uses by evilviper · · Score: 1

      Full spectrum high efficiency lights would be a major boon to the pot.... I mean industrial hemp growers.

      Why? When you're using an abandoned house, tapped directly into the grid, bypassing the meter, you don't care too much about electricity prices. If anything, you'd be slightly more concerned how much money you've invested, when the cops seize it.
      --
      Slashdot gets worse every day... Pipedot: News for nerds, without the corporate slant
    2. Re:Wow imagine the argicultural uses by dajak · · Score: 1

      That's how you can get caught easily. If power companies have their act together, they know in which areas they have unexplained losses, and the police can simply check the neighbourhood out with infrared cameras. That's how the Netherlands pushed its "industrial hemp" plantations into Germany and Belgium.

  28. they tell you in the video by snsh · · Score: 5, Funny

    Sounds like the company has $40 million in funding. So one bulb costs $40 million.

    1. Re:they tell you in the video by JWSmythe · · Score: 1

      Nah, that was $38 million for the salaries of 6 people, $1 million for the offices and facility, and $1 million for the lightbulb.

          But, they'll have to mark it up when they sell it to the gov't, so they'll be $2 million each. But imagine the savings! :)

          I'm still trying to figure out where to get $40 million in grants or venture capital. I'd bet I could squirt a little argon gas in a glass container and make an arc in the middle of it too, probably with only a staff of 5, and a pretty damn swank office with a pretty damned hot secretary. :)

      --
      Serious? Seriousness is well above my pay grade.
  29. Growing exotic plants indoors by Threni · · Score: 2, Interesting

    One of the problems of current LED and other low-energy bulbs is that they're no good for indoor cultivation of plants. Using lights which require less power and produce less heat are less detectable than regular indoor grow lights. I wonder if these lights are the answer?

    1. Re:Growing exotic plants indoors by David+Gerard · · Score: 1

      White LEDs aren't bad at all for plant growing, actually. Paul Riddell from the Texas Triffid Ranch (a most highly recommended blog) built an iMac-shell terrarium using a full-spectrum compact fluorescent, and only didn't opt for white LEDs because of price. He considered halogens, but they run way too hot. (Despite the light being excellent for carnivorous plants - we revived some abandoned Venus Fly Traps with 12 hours/day of a single halogen.)

      --
      http://rocknerd.co.uk
    2. Re:Growing exotic plants indoors by toddestan · · Score: 1

      Considering that they are full spectrum bulbs, they ought to work pretty well as grow lights. Plants don't care where the light comes from, so long as it's the proper wavelengths.

  30. Does it scale down? by AsmordeanX · · Score: 1

    A 250w street lamp is great but can a 30w version be created to compete with a 100w incandescent/40w compact florescent bulb?

    Just curious to know if this is something that doesn't work unless you run it really high.

    I now wait for news stories about children swallowing on of the bulbs or the video on YouTube of someone shooting a powered up bulb with a gun.

    1. Re:Does it scale down? by v1 · · Score: 1

      children swallowing on of the bulbs

      I'll wait for the one where the kid swallows it and THEN lights it up.

      hey it's day-glo baby!

      tho the 6k issue could make the video rather short.

      --
      I work for the Department of Redundancy Department.
    2. Re:Does it scale down? by AsmordeanX · · Score: 1

      6000K in a tiny space isn't really that big of a deal. Oh I'm sure it'll make a heck of a bang for its size but an arc / mig welder can exceed that temperature easily and people hang their heads inches away from welds as they do them. Though, like a welder, looking directly at the bulb could be bad.

      6000K is hot but 6000K that is in 2mm^3 area at 200Kpa isn't that much compared to say 6000K in 100Kpa at 1m^3. The second would be very nasty be near if it suddenly was vented to the room while the first would feel like a warm fart.

  31. plasma torpedoes by papermate · · Score: 1

    Now if we just replace the argon with trilithium isotopes and turn that magnetic "puck" into some form of rail-gun, we'll have plasma torpedoes!

  32. Black Body Radiation by sd.fhasldff · · Score: 2, Informative

    OK, so plasma is not very close to an ideal black body, but regardless you still get some wide spectrum emissions with a peak near that of a corresponding black body. In this case (6000 Kelvin), that's a pretty nice white.

  33. Perfect for my "rose" garden! by Carp+Flounderson · · Score: 0, Interesting

    This would be great tech for growing a room full of the ganja. Full spectrum light, low power, made in California? Come on... thats what they designed it for!

    --

    Color flashing, thunder crashing, dynamite machines.

  34. God this shit here is worse than digg by imsabbel · · Score: 4, Insightful

    A few points, inspired by those "insightful" comments i read till up to now
    a) Temperature=!heat=!"OMG IT WILL KILL US!!!". You dont really want to know the "temperature" of the electron beam in your old style TV... (yeah, i know its not in thermodynamical equilibrium, and thus temperature is not defined, thus the "")
    b) This is nothing really new. It is based on the same principle like the old sulfure-plasma lamps in the early 90s.
    c) It doesnt scale down well. It needs its power provided by microwaves, which is not efficiently possible in the lower power range.
    d) Yeah, it uses 250W. But provides as much light as a 1500W halogen thrower. Wake up, moms basement (which you are most familiar with) isnt the world, there are plenty of things you would like to have 10ks of lumens for.
    e) Reinforced from d: Yeah, a 250W bulb can be energy efficent. Because it puts out a fucking lot light, numbnut.
    f) Doesnt compare at all with leds: Leds have low surface brightness, are effiecent and dont scale UP well. This things have a very high surface brightness, are efficient and dont scape DOWN well. Apple, meet orange.
    g) A better comparison would be vs HID: there they are supperior (longer lifetime, less dangerous, not much more complex driver (HIDs need a high-voltage ballast, too).

    --
    HI O WISE PRINCE. WHT TOOK U SO DAM LONG?
    1. Re:God this shit here is worse than digg by njh · · Score: 1

      c) It doesnt scale down well. It needs its power provided by microwaves, which is not efficiently possible in the lower power range.

      We have plenty of high efficiency low power microwave sources - consider wifi. Rather than using a magnetron you simply point a suitable oscillator at the bulb. Indeed, you might improve efficiency by using some positive feedback to match the oscillator to the load. Magnetrons aren't particularly efficient, just tremendously robust.

      However, I think that it might not scale down because heat losses are a surface phenomenon, which is increasing relative to the volume, and thus small lights cool down too fast (I think this is the same reason why fusion reactors are so ginormous).

    2. Re:God this shit here is worse than digg by imsabbel · · Score: 1

      The problem is not only the source, but the energy density.
      To reduce the power, you would have to keep the density, or even increase it (because of bigger surface losses, as you said.
      But that opens a new problem: How to you get that much microwave energy into that small (i.e. smaller than wavelenght) reaction volume?

      --
      HI O WISE PRINCE. WHT TOOK U SO DAM LONG?
    3. Re:God this shit here is worse than digg by njh · · Score: 1

      That is a good point! c / 5.8Ghz = 55mm, which is quite large compared to an LED. Perhaps there are Terahertz waves that absorb in argon... Thanks for your insight.

  35. I'll believe it when... by Nom+du+Keyboard · · Score: 1

    I'll believe it when I get burned by it. 6000K. What the heck are they even making it out of?

    --
    "It's the height of ridiculousness to say for those 9 lines you get hundreds of millions."
  36. current sodium vapor lamps are 200lum/Watt by YesIAmAScript · · Score: 1

    This thing is only 2/3rds that efficient.

    I know everyone hates sodium vapor lamps, but this does show that this lamp isn't a revolution.

    And additionally, the mercury stuff about CFs is horseshit. A CF, even if broken releases less mercury into the environment that the mercury released by burning coal to run an incandescent lamp for its lifetime.

    --
    http://lkml.org/lkml/2005/8/20/95
    1. Re:current sodium vapor lamps are 200lum/Watt by ZwJGR · · Score: 1

      A little mercury released over the volume of 1 room is more of an issue to you than much more mercury spread over half a river.
      Getting a face-full of mercury is an issue, having much more mercury spread over an immensely larger area of environment is not as big an issue (for hypothetical you, with a broken bulb).
      So it is an issue, (if you're idiot enough to break one).

      Then no doubt you'll have some cretin child break a bunch of bulbs and be exposed to hazardous mercury levels.
      Cue: think of the children, bad publicity, people staying with incandescents (or getting something else entirely), and the whole panic...

      --
      There is no psychiatrist in the world like a puppy licking your face - Ben Williams
  37. What the Spec says by peccary · · Score: 4, Informative
    According to the product specifications available from Luxim, the actual operating temperature of the surface of the light bulb must be actively cooled to below 850C, and it is recommended that the temperature remain above 650C.

    There must be two dozen posts here already blathering about 6000K and nobody bothered to go read the company's official documentation? Here's their website, here are a whole bunch of specs and videos, now go read something before speculating.

    1. Re:What the Spec says by fred+fleenblat · · Score: 1

      presumably 6000K was the color temperature.

  38. Minor information by dr2chase · · Score: 4, Informative
    Latest LEDs available (now) go as high as about 90 lumens/watt (Luxeon Rebel, at 350mA, if properly heat sinked). I read, somewhere, that Nichia has demoed an LED at 130 lumens/watt.

    However, their light, much like the light of this light, looks an awful lot like the light from a welder. You have to be careful about the pursuit of the almighty lumen -- it's a human-tweaked measure, not a physical measure, and lights score best by dumping all of their light into green. We probably don't want our homes to be lit by exclusively green light.

    One thing to note is that there is wide spectrum (true 6000K, this new light), wide spectrum (white LEDs, a relatively smooth blob in the optical frequencies), and wide spectrum (a strategically chosen selection single frequencies, in fluorescent lights). This new bulb should produce very nice looking like, but it might benefit from some of the same phosphors used in white LEDs to down-convert the higher frequencies.

    Properly run LEDs are claimed to have lifetimes in the range of 70,000 to 100,000 hours of use, and are not affected by rapid cycling (in fact, the recommended method for dimming them is to switch them on and off very quickly).

    1. Re:Minor information by Twinbee · · Score: 1

      I see what you mean about the lumen being human tweaked. Can you have a quick read of my post here and tell me what you think:

      http://www.candlepowerforums.com/vb/showthread.php?p=2415085#post2415085

      --
      Why OpalCalc is the best Windows calc
  39. Can someone ask them to by pkbarbiedoll · · Score: 1

    make one of these for my motorcycle headlight? And make another for my brake/tail light, slightly less intense and red of course.

  40. Easy? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Sure.

    I guess.

    But that doesn't mean anybody with a trophy home actually wants to do it.

    Have you ever driven through an affluent part of town and seen the yards which have floodlit trees?

    Yep, that's right: they think everybody wants to admire the trees in their yard, so they install powerful floodlights at the base of them, shining up into the foliage. And up into the sky.

    Do you really think somebody who thinks that way would willingly curb the light pollution they generate?

    It's not just about the effect on astronomy...I don't want their fucking idiocy depriving me of quality sleep because the inside of my house is lit up like a goddam cruiseliner.

  41. hrmmm by khallow · · Score: 1

    and twice the efficiency of high-end LEDs Aren't the good LEDs turning most of their energy into light. That is, efficiencies around 70% or higher? In that case, nothing can have an efficiency twice an LED.
    1. Re:hrmmm by Jesus_666 · · Score: 1

      Depends on your definition of "twice as efficient". It can either mean "having an efficiency that is twice as high" (so twice 50% would be 100%) or "being half as far away from 100%" (so twice 50% would be 75%).

      The latter definition certainly isn't unheard of and makes sense: When I'm talking about energy efficiency I want to know how much energy goes to waste. So "twice as efficient" meaning "wastes half as much energy" is what I'm thinking of.

      --
      USE HOT GRITS WITH STATUE OF NATALIE PORTMAN (NAKED AND PETRIFIED)
    2. Re:hrmmm by khallow · · Score: 1

      Eh, I suppose so. Still is very misleading. After all, if for example LEDs are 70% efficient and these bulbs are 85% efficient, then you only get about 20% more lumens for the power you put in. That's not the impression you get from hearing "twice as efficient".

    3. Re:hrmmm by ceoyoyo · · Score: 1

      According to their numbers these lights are twice as efficient, as in 140 lumens per watt versus 70 lumens per watt. Which means LEDs aren't anywhere near 70% efficient.

    4. Re:hrmmm by khallow · · Score: 1

      Huh, according to Wikipedia, the theoretical maximum is 683 lumens per watt while most white LEDs do 60-90 lumens/watt (and experimental ones go up to 150 lumens per watt). Way, way short of 70%.

  42. Does compare with LEDs by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    We have a very efficient source of full spectrum light. People should be very excited. There are very definitely a market for these if they are as efficient as claimed. We can compare them to any source of white light.

    If you do want to compare them to HID, http://www.powersavingsolution.com/hid-lamps.htm they still seem pretty efficient.

    1. Re:Does compare with LEDs by imsabbel · · Score: 1

      Well, you didnt read my post. Or should have read it better.

      These arent new. The principle has existed for 20 years now.
      The main problem simply is that it doesnt scale down. If you would try to make a 5000 lumen version (the ones suitable for illuminating a normal-sized room), my guess would be that you would end up using 80W or more. It simply doesnt scale well.

      Great to illuminate office floors with light conductors, or cinema projectors.
      Bad for home-lighting.

      Thats why they compare to HID (which have the same main problems (10W hids are not much higher than 50lm/W, while 100W ones can get >100), with the benefit of a much better spectrum (HID makes leds seem like sunlight).

      --
      HI O WISE PRINCE. WHT TOOK U SO DAM LONG?
  43. Not this again by Cairnarvon · · Score: 2, Interesting

    There's no mention of mercury or other heavy metals, which pose a problem for compact fluorescents.

    I wish people would challenge memes like these, because they're mostly bullshit crafted to stir up/reinforce discontent, in this case by the right-wing noise machine against "environmentalists", because that sells newspapers.
    CFLs, like all fluorescent lights, do contain a miniscule amount of mercury (and I do mean miniscule; about 4 mg), but to call it a problem is to vastly overstate the dangers involved. If you break a bulb, you may want to open a window for a bit, but that's about it. The clean-up steps the EPA mentions on their website (mentioned in the linked /. post) are there for the hyper-paranoid, and apply just as much to the regular old-school fluorescent tubes (moreso, since they contain more mercury).

    The "problem" is serious enough that if you have a large population that uses CFLs (like places where incandescents aren't allowed anymore), you want to encourage people to dispose of them safely rather than to just throw them with the rest of the trash, but even if the mercury does end up in the environment, it will be less mercury than has been prevented from getting out by its power savings (Wikipedia has this picture, which demonstrates the principle for coal plants, but the same thing applies to other types of power plants, except "green" ones like hydroelectric and wind energy; but again, this is only relevant if the bulbs are disposed of unsafely, which is illegal in many places that mandate their use).

    1. Re:Not this again by Detritus · · Score: 1

      I thought it was the left-wing noise machine that was whining about the small amounts of mercury in CFLs. You know, the same people who can find "toxics" everywhere they look.

      --
      Mea navis aericumbens anguillis abundat
    2. Re:Not this again by Cairnarvon · · Score: 1

      You'd think so, but in my experience it's mostly right-wingers looking to score points against either CFLs or anti-mercury measures pushed by the environmentalist left a few decades ago. It's generally a win-win for them.

    3. Re:Not this again by Jesus_666 · · Score: 1

      The mercury in CFLs is not the end of the world, but being able to avoid it is desirable. We already generate enough toxic waste. The trick is finding an alternative that is about as efficient for home use scenarios and doesn't generate toxic waste...

      --
      USE HOT GRITS WITH STATUE OF NATALIE PORTMAN (NAKED AND PETRIFIED)
    4. Re:Not this again by Cairnarvon · · Score: 1

      Of course, but the fact that we don't have the perfect solution right now (and probably never will; there are very few modern products that don't generate some kind of toxic waste) doesn't mean we should stick to the worst possible option until we do. CFLs are a damn sight better than incandescents, no matter how you look at it.

    5. Re:Not this again by Jesus_666 · · Score: 1

      Well, have they solved the flicker problem yet? While CFLs are energy-efficient I'm currently sticking with halogens because I can't stand flicker.

      --
      USE HOT GRITS WITH STATUE OF NATALIE PORTMAN (NAKED AND PETRIFIED)
    6. Re:Not this again by avandesande · · Score: 1

      Yeah yeah, we get it. That being said, wouldn't you prefer a lighting technology that doesn't have mercury in it?

      --
      love is just extroverted narcissism
  44. Where does it talk about cancer? Nowhere... by langelgjm · · Score: 2, Insightful

    quick stop working on that cure to cancer, light pollution is SERIOUS, man

    I can't believe people are modding you insightful. First, where does it say that anyone is stopping work on curing cancer? I must have missed that in the article.

    Second, this thing saves power, which is typically a good thing (TM). Why, with the power we save, we might even have more resources to look for a cure for cancer!

    --
    "Anyone who [rips a CD] is probably engaging in copyright infringement." - David O. Carson
  45. RF waveguide enclosure? Frequency? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    In their rather brief technology brief.. they mention it works by generating an RF field fed though a waveguide to the plasma bulb. What frequency would this work on? Seeing their mention of a waveguide could be in the GHz realm? Anyone has more info on their tech? Hmm, chances of interference?

  46. Temperature of the plasma... by argent · · Score: 1

    The 6000 degrees is the peak temperature of the plasma in the center of the bulb, not the temperature of any solid component.

  47. Argon Plasma Laser? by nbritton · · Score: 1

    Could these bulbs be used to make high efficiency, and/or high power, lasers?

  48. I'll believe it by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    When I see it
    _drumroll_

  49. Argon--the other white plams by celerycr · · Score: 1

    This looks very similar to the sulfur plasma light used at the National Air and Space Museum, just updated and scaled down. It used a magnetron to excite sulfur in a ball that had to be continuously rotated--no electrodes, 6000K, full spectrum. see en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sulfur_lamp.

  50. I did research on these plasma lamps at Cornell by rcb1974 · · Score: 5, Informative
    When I was a student at Cornell, I worked in the Department of Plasma Physics one summer. We got some money from a startup company to do some research on these same types of plasma lamps. I looked at the spectrum of the light these lamps using a spectrometer. Of particular interest to me was the spectrum during the time when the lamp was starting up. I discovered some spectral lines and was able to determine which elements were present inside the bulb (i.e. reverse engineering). I recall there was sulfur, argon, and trace amounts of a other noble gases like krypton. In any case, here are my thoughts on these bulbs.

    The benefits:
    1. Super efficient light (2x as efficient as LEDs)
    2. Gorgeous spectrum. Matches the spectrum of the sun VERY closely. Beautiful white light is emitted and it is extremely intense. I was instructed by my professor to not look directly at the bulb when it was powered on.

    The Drawbacks:
    1. The lamps take about 10 seconds to start up.
    2. After they are powered off, you have to wait about 2 minutes before you can turn them back on again. This is because certain elements inside the bulbs (like sulfur) need to cool down, solidify, and redeposited themselves back onto the interior walls of the quartz bulb.
    3. They must be mounted atop a very large (about 25cm x 25cm x 15cm) magnetron that generates microwaves.
    4. The bulb must be surrounded by a Faraday cage (in this case, a metal screen) so that the microwaves are confined to the area around the bulb only.
    5. The magnetron is bulky, heavy, and noisy
    6. The bulb itself gets VERY hot. They can be a fire hazard.

    They definately have some good applications, like for use in stadiums, airports, etc. However, I think there needs to be more research done to make them usable in homes and automobiles.
    1. Re:I did research on these plasma lamps at Cornell by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Is there a Faraday cage that can protect me from people who write "definately"?

    2. Re:I did research on these plasma lamps at Cornell by njh · · Score: 1

      After they are powered off, you have to wait about 2 minutes before you can turn them back on again. This is because certain elements inside the bulbs (like sulfur) need to cool down, solidify, and redeposited themselves back onto the interior walls of the quartz bulb.

      Why is this? Argon itself is a gas, and presumably where all the microwave energy is going, so what does it matter whether the sulphur is bouncing around or not?

    3. Re:I did research on these plasma lamps at Cornell by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Thank you for the comment.
      The temperature is no issue at all. I have been running bulb at 65000K, and no problem at all.
      Here's how they safeguard it: they put a another glass shell around it to make sure that if it pops,
      it's contained inside.
      You can put it inside a method enclosure and with a high temperature glass in front to let light out.

      I can't wait to see this come out at a decent price. This is going to be great with DIY projector.
      I would replace my in heart beat if it's under $80.

      The small size will give great sharp image. The temperature efficiency is just great.
      I imagine with this size of the bulb, about 150 Watt lamp would be enough for the projector. However,
      take 250 Watt to have really bright image.

      With this small size, and low heat generated (because more light is generated), it would be great
      to use a condenser lens to grab all of the light and channels it out to the screen.

      I just can wait for it.

    4. Re:I did research on these plasma lamps at Cornell by Turiko · · Score: 1

      Hm yeah, the magnetrons are a pretty big drawback. Also, what happens if you turn it on before the 2 minutes have gone by?

    5. Re:I did research on these plasma lamps at Cornell by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      My guess is that the other stuff is in there to add more peaks to the spectrum. But I don't know why they need to cool down first.

  51. What happens when... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    What happens when you stare at the filament?

  52. Temperature by kf6auf · · Score: 5, Informative

    For any blackbody emitter (incandescent light bulb or this fancy new plasma), the color temperature IS the temperature. It's only for things that don't emit like blackbody radiators (fluorescent and LED) where you have a different color temperature than temperature.

  53. Halving power usage of streetlights, easy. by pbhj · · Score: 2, Insightful

    We already have the technology to halve the power usage of street lights. It's called an off switch.

    OK maybe not quite half, perhaps cut by a third. Why do we need near daylight conditions for drivers at 2 in the morning, when they have perfectly good headlights?

    1. Re:Halving power usage of streetlights, easy. by Bush+Pig · · Score: 1

      When I was a kid (around 50 years ago), the street lights went out at 1am (except on main roads). I don't know why they don't still do it.

      --
      What a long, strange trip it's been.
    2. Re:Halving power usage of streetlights, easy. by Mr.+Freeman · · Score: 4, Insightful

      The reason we light up the street is because it prevents accidents. Yes, we could save power by turning off the streetlights, but that defeats the purpose of the streetlights, and results in more accidents.

      --
      -1 disagree is not a modifier for a reason. -1 troll, flaimbait, redundant, overrated are NOT acceptable substitutes.
    3. Re:Halving power usage of streetlights, easy. by psychodelicacy · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Because our social structures have changed hugely in the last 50 years. Walking home from a friend's house at 1 a.m. is nothing unusual for me, or for lots of other people. But I wouldn't be able to do it if there weren't decent street lighting.

      --
      A closed mouth gathers no foot.
    4. Re:Halving power usage of streetlights, easy. by Duncan+Blackthorne · · Score: 1

      Obviously you've never had to make your way home on a deserted mountain road at 2:00am. Headlights are woefully inadequate, especially considering how unskilled the average driver is. Streetlights not only make conditions safer for drivers, they make conditions safer for pedestrians, and in residential neighborhoods they deter burglars and other common criminals.

    5. Re:Halving power usage of streetlights, easy. by Software · · Score: 2, Interesting

      Does anybody have any links to studies showing that streetlights reduce accidents or crime rates (and by how much)? I think the effect would be minimal, but I'm willing to listen to evidence to the contrary. A Google search shows one British town experimenting with turning off lights between midnight and 5 AM - it will be interesting to see how the accident and crime rates change.

    6. Re:Halving power usage of streetlights, easy. by kimvette · · Score: 1, Interesting

      Walking home from a friend's house at 1 a.m. is nothing unusual for me, or for lots of other people. But I wouldn't be able to do it if there weren't decent street lighting.


      Sure you could, if your eyes were allowed to adjust for decent night vision. I've ridden my mountain bike through trails in the middle of the night after my eyes have adjusted. Now, I wouldn't do that down trails I wasn't already familiar with because it'd be easy to miss seeing branches when moving in the dark at 10-12mph, but it was no problem in the trails I was riding through.
      --
      The Christian Right is Neither (Christian nor right). See: Matthew 23, Matthew 25, Ezekiel 16:48-50
    7. Re:Halving power usage of streetlights, easy. by rubah · · Score: 1

      But on stretches of interstate highway? This week I had the [pleasurable] opportunity to drive through several big cities at night (Nashville, Louisville, Indianapolis), and each of them had several miles lit up with low pressure sodium lamps, for very little reason I could tell. I sure hope no one is walking across those large roads (although in Effingham IL there was a gentleman riding his bike across I-70, albeit in daylight. Apparently the 100 ft to the overpass was too far)

      One of the things I remember most vividly from first grade was my teacher telling how when she lived in nashville, you couldn't see the stars at night, so this is definitely not a new problem.

      One of my pet peeves is football night at my old high school. Their football stadium lights point right up into my front windows (we live on a bit of a large hill over town). The billboards they put up are worse because they never go off at night.

    8. Re:Halving power usage of streetlights, easy. by Scrameustache · · Score: 1

      Walking home from a friend's house at 1 a.m. is nothing unusual for me, or for lots of other people. But I wouldn't be able to do it if there weren't decent street lighting. It doesn't have to be very bright to be decent.
      And it sure doesn't need to be shining up at the sky for you to see where you're going.
      --

      You can't take the sky from me...

    9. Re:Halving power usage of streetlights, easy. by nospam007 · · Score: 1

      The power plants produce power continuously, if it isn't used, it is dissipated as heat or other losses, there's nothing to gain there unless you have huge pumping stations to store that energy somewhere.

    10. Re:Halving power usage of streetlights, easy. by glitch23 · · Score: 2, Insightful

      The reason we light up the street is because it prevents accidents. Yes, we could save power by turning off the streetlights, but that defeats the purpose of the streetlights, and results in more accidents.

      Good argument until you consider there are no streetlights on the interstate. Are there more accidents on the interstate because there are no streetlights or just because people can go faster on the interstate? Or maybe there aren't more accidents on the interstate anyway compared to within the city in which case your argument is definitely not good enough to support not turning off streetlights at 2AM to save money.

      --
      this nation, under God, shall have a new birth of freedom. -- Lincoln, Gettysburg Address
    11. Re:Halving power usage of streetlights, easy. by WK2 · · Score: 4, Funny

      That's a risk I'm willing to take. We need more accidents, and less people.

      --
      Write your own Choose Your Own Adventure. http://www.freegameengines.org/gamebook-engine/
    12. Re:Halving power usage of streetlights, easy. by merreborn · · Score: 1

      We already have the technology to halve the power usage of street lights. It's called an off switch.
      Even if that were feasible (who'd want to walk around in any major city center after sundown with no street lights?), more efficient bulb technology is still desirable. If you can save 50% by using more efficient bulbs, and 50% by running the bulbs half as long, you're now only using 1/4 the juice you were previously.
    13. Re:Halving power usage of streetlights, easy. by ZorbaTHut · · Score: 1

      A lot of urban highways include lights on the side, and frequently also between the two directions.

      --
      Breaking Into the Industry - A development log about starting a game studio.
    14. Re:Halving power usage of streetlights, easy. by EvanED · · Score: 1

      We need more accidents, and less people.

      Fewer. "Fewer people."

    15. Re:Halving power usage of streetlights, easy. by Hank+the+Lion · · Score: 1

      The power plants produce power continuously, if it isn't used, it is dissipated as heat or other losses, there's nothing to gain there unless you have huge pumping stations to store that energy somewhere.

      Do you have any references for that claim?
      The generators of the power plants will put out the same voltage continuously, but if less current is drawn, they are significantly easier to turn, and less fuel is consumed.

      Unless you can cite good references, I would say that you deserve to be moderated (-1, Clueless)

    16. Re:Halving power usage of streetlights, easy. by Alioth · · Score: 1

      Sure you could. Use a torch (flashlight if you are in the US). I have an insanely bright one, with a 3 watt Luxeon power illuminator, which fits in my pocket quite handily. It has a clip so it also can mount on my bike, and I routinely ride on unlit roads at night with this light. It's bright enough that oncoming drivers dip their headlights, thinking I'm a motorcycle.

    17. Re:Halving power usage of streetlights, easy. by ultranova · · Score: 1

      who'd want to walk around in any major city center after sundown with no street lights?

      I would. If I have to go to a den of thieves, I'd much rather have darkness concealing me than a spotlight shining on me while they lie in wait in the shadows.

      --

      Forget magic. Any technology distinguishable from divine power is insufficiently advanced.

    18. Re:Halving power usage of streetlights, easy. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I was born because of an "accident", you insensitive clod!

    19. Re:Halving power usage of streetlights, easy. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The problem for powerplant generators is that they are not servo-locked, if the load decreases, the speed (and there for frequency of the output) increases, because the power fed into the turbine stays the same, this can cause huge grid unbalances and even half a hertz causes plants to be immediatly dropped of the grid.

    20. Re:Halving power usage of streetlights, easy. by nospam007 · · Score: 2, Interesting

      The generators of the power plants will put out the same voltage continuously, but if less current is drawn, they are significantly easier to turn, and less fuel is consumed.

      Only it doesn't work with nuclear and coal plants.

    21. Re:Halving power usage of streetlights, easy. by toddestan · · Score: 1

      It works just fine. Controlling the amount of heat generated causes the flow of the steam to change, which then affects the power generated by the turbine. Though the large plants obviously can't react quickly, and most nuclear plants are run at full capacity 24/7 anyway, letting other plants regulate their output in response to demand.

    22. Re:Halving power usage of streetlights, easy. by petermgreen · · Score: 1

      Varying the output is fairly easy with coal plants (it's just not done much because coal plants are expensive to build but cheap to run),

      --
      note: i'm known as plugwash most places but i screwd up registering that here somehow in the past and now can't register
    23. Re:Halving power usage of streetlights, easy. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Walking home from a friend's house at 1 a.m. is nothing unusual for me [] But I wouldn't be able to do it if there weren't decent street lighting.
      Why not? I've done night walks for years, before I moved to the city. I miss it. You might not know it, but our eyes can accommodate to darkness. It's never so dark that you wouldn't find your way.
    24. Re:Halving power usage of streetlights, easy. by petermgreen · · Score: 1

      Any generator that tries to turn faster than the grid frequency will find itself taking a greater share of the load bringing it's frequency and the grid frequency back in step. Of course the overall frequency of the grid needs to be kept under control and that means that overall input must be matched to overall output.

      So some generators need to be throttleable and/or there needs to be a way to dump or store power (dumping power is obviously undesirable because power costs money) but that is a far cry from saying every generator needs to be throttleable.

      --
      note: i'm known as plugwash most places but i screwd up registering that here somehow in the past and now can't register
    25. Re:Halving power usage of streetlights, easy. by budgenator · · Score: 1

      The generator is actually an alternator and they are inherently servo-locked, the alternator that is and stays out of sync with the grid has something obviously and seriously wrong with it and will try to pull the other stations on the grid into sync with it which will usually burn it up in the effort.

      --
      Apocalypse Cancelled, Sorry, No Ticket Refunds
    26. Re:Halving power usage of streetlights, easy. by pbhj · · Score: 1

      The village I lived in as a child had 2 or 3 streetlights (that I can recall). It now has lights about every 15 metres.

      Crime rates have definitely gone up. There have certainly been more accidents. The relationship with the street lighting would be hard to show.

      Very few pedestrians need to walk down a road after midnight even in large cities (like I live in now), then one could wear a hi-visibility vest or an LED lamp. Oh and use the pavement!

    27. Re:Halving power usage of streetlights, easy. by pbhj · · Score: 1

      Ever heard of global climate change, or just the idea of reduced taxes?

      Maybe you could buy a pocket torch (I actually enjoy walking at night away from streetlights, especially when the moon is out and you can see nearly as much as in daylight). Wind up torches work pretty well too.

    28. Re:Halving power usage of streetlights, easy. by psychodelicacy · · Score: 1

      What none of the comments here take into account is that I wasn't referring to visibility but to safety. Probably because you're all assuming I'm a man (no women on the internet, right?) :) Anyway, yes, I could use a pocket torch, or let my eyes adjust, or whatever, but that wouldn't change the fact that unlit streets and stretches of road are not safe for women walking on their own. They probably hold some dangers for men, too, but no sensible woman goes walking in the dark alone.

      --
      A closed mouth gathers no foot.
    29. Re:Halving power usage of streetlights, easy. by DMUTPeregrine · · Score: 1

      6 D-cell maglite. It's a club and a torch combined. And if someone is going to attack you, street-lights aren't going to stop them. They'll just attack in the shadowy point between lights, or simply not care. Going armed is far better protection than hoping the attacker will be deterred by a simple lamp.

      --
      Not a sentence!
    30. Re:Halving power usage of streetlights, easy. by tylernt · · Score: 1

      Headlights are woefully inadequate, especially considering how crappy US-spec headlights are compared to European standards
      There, fixed that for you.
      --
      DRM 'manages access' in the same way that a prison 'manages freedom'
    31. Re:Halving power usage of streetlights, easy. by psychodelicacy · · Score: 1

      The point is not that bright lighting necessarily deters criminals (there is apparently strong evidence to support either side of that argument), but that it gives them fewer places to hide. If I can see right down the street and into doorways, I can avoid being taken by surprise. I'm not talking about crime such as burglaries, car thefts, and so on. I'm talking about personal attacks and rape, which are often surprise attacks and therefore can be better guarded against if the potential victim can see their general surroundings clearly (unlike torchlight, which illuminates a strip or pool of light and makes the surrounding area even less visible by comparison.) I would rather see us finding more sustainable and efficient technologies rather than turning off late-night streetlighting. But I see that we also desperately need to consider the environmental effects. It's not an easy problem to address.

      --
      A closed mouth gathers no foot.
    32. Re:Halving power usage of streetlights, easy. by lucifuge31337 · · Score: 1

      The power plants produce power continuously, if it isn't used, it is dissipated as heat or other losses, there's nothing to gain there unless you have huge pumping stations to store that energy somewhere. While technically correct, it's such a simplistic view of the way power is generated that it can be considered moronically misleading. Look up the difference between base load power and peaking power.
      --
      Do not fold, spindle or mutilate.
    33. Re:Halving power usage of streetlights, easy. by lucifuge31337 · · Score: 1

      Good argument until you consider there are no streetlights on the interstate. Huh? What are those big sticks with the lights on them in this picture of I95 not too far away from where I live?

      I'm not saying there aren't places that have interstates without street lights. I'm familiar with several sections of I 95 that don't, mostly once you get south of Washington DC and in the sticks of Northern Virginia, and then again after you pass Richmond until you reach what passes for civilization in North Carolina. But the most heavily trafficed places do have street lights.
      --
      Do not fold, spindle or mutilate.
    34. Re:Halving power usage of streetlights, easy. by Duncan+Blackthorne · · Score: 1

      I'm really feeling unsure how to react to being corrected (?) like that. Are you trying to be helpful, or are you just being a troll? "Correction" not withstanding, my point remains just as valid: roadway lighting enhances driving safety.

    35. Re:Halving power usage of streetlights, easy. by tylernt · · Score: 1

      Just pointing out that car headlights can be much more effective that what we have in the States.

      Anyway, I don't like streetlights because the glare hurts your night vision. I think it's safer to have good lights on the car that don't shine into your eyes.

      --
      DRM 'manages access' in the same way that a prison 'manages freedom'
    36. Re:Halving power usage of streetlights, easy. by Bush+Pig · · Score: 1

      I get your point about safety, and yes, things have changed a great deal in 50 years. On the other hand, where I live (suburban Adelaide) the street lights aren't particularly effective anyway.

      --
      What a long, strange trip it's been.
    37. Re:Halving power usage of streetlights, easy. by thogard · · Score: 1

      There were no drug deals when the lights by my house were burned out but in the week following their replacement, there were several dealers hanging around and one girl who kept getting in cars with different guys. I'm guessing criminals need light too. One issue is that street lights keep peoples night vision from kicking in and its much batter for seeing motion than our color vision.

    38. Re:Halving power usage of streetlights, easy. by reed · · Score: 1

      "The reason we light up the street is because it prevents accidents."

      This is not neccesarily true. Nor are many streetlights helpful at deterring crime.

      It depends on exactly how and where and what kind of light is used.

    39. Re:Halving power usage of streetlights, easy. by Grishnakh · · Score: 1

      Don't be ridiculous. Walking in the dark alone is perfectly safe for women, if they're actually sensible. You don't sound like you're actually sensible, because it sounds like you don't carry any weapons.

      When my wife is out and about, she usually carries a large police belt with 3 weapons: an expandable police baton (a handheld metal baton that expands at the flick of the wrist, and can easily break bones), a can of pepper spray, and a .357 magnum revolver. So no matter what kind of threat presents itself, she has an appropriate defense at the ready, whether it's an unarmed thug, an armed assailant, or a stray dog (probably the most likely threat, but still one that should not be underestimated given all the pit-bull attacks and killings in recent years). Depending on how much legal trouble there's likely to be, and how much of a threat the threat is, options are available ranging from non-lethal to very lethal. As an aside, if a large dog (esp. pit bull) attacks, it's going to get the gun, not the pepper spray. There's little to no legal problems with killing unleashed large dogs, and it's better for the community and possible future victims to simply kill such dogs rather than allow them to live and attack someone else, possibly a child.

    40. Re:Halving power usage of streetlights, easy. by psychodelicacy · · Score: 1

      Carrying weapons is illegal in the UK. Having any of those things with me (let alone using them) would be an arrestable offence, and the gun would land me in jail.

      --
      A closed mouth gathers no foot.
    41. Re:Halving power usage of streetlights, easy. by iamacat · · Score: 1

      Although I sympasize with your predicament, are you sure you end up really being safer rather than just feeling safer? In the dark, the criminal may have trouble determining that you are a man or a woman, let alone weather you are armed or of an athletic build. On the other hand, even lighted streets usually have a plenty of shaded spots, trees and so on. A criminal hiding there will see you very well, while you will be blinded by street lights and lulled into a false sense of security.

    42. Re:Halving power usage of streetlights, easy. by Grishnakh · · Score: 1

      Then maybe you need to move to a country where criminals don't have more rights than victims. Any country where you're not even allowed to fight back against a violent attacker in your own home is not a country worth living in. What kind of stupid country doesn't allow you to protect yourself from criminals? We read all the time about the ridiculous crime rate in the UK here. It's pathetic.

    43. Re:Halving power usage of streetlights, easy. by ncc74656 · · Score: 1

      Carrying weapons is illegal in the UK. Having any of those things with me (let alone using them) would be an arrestable offence, and the gun would land me in jail.

      How's that gun control, knife control, etc. working out for you? In civilized countries, free men aren't barred from the means to defend themselves against Bad People.

      --
      20 January 2017: the End of an Error.
    44. Re:Halving power usage of streetlights, easy. by psychodelicacy · · Score: 1

      Yup. And we read about kids shooting up their schools with Dad's gun and bullets from Walmart. My country's not perfect. Neither's yours.

      --
      A closed mouth gathers no foot.
    45. Re:Halving power usage of streetlights, easy. by Grishnakh · · Score: 0

      Better than being attacked by gangs of thugs, as is common on the streets of London.

      In London, if you even physically resist that gang of thugs, you'll go to jail. Your society is insane.

    46. Re:Halving power usage of streetlights, easy. by psychodelicacy · · Score: 1

      Never seen a gun in my life - never want to. Yes, people kill each other with guns - having more guns doesn't seem to me to be a great answer to that problem. I take your point about defence. It's true that if I were attacked by someone I would have no means of defending myself. But how many high school shootings have we had in Britain? How often has a child injured itself or someone else playing with a relative's gun? Gun ownership has its downside too.

      --
      A closed mouth gathers no foot.
    47. Re:Halving power usage of streetlights, easy. by psychodelicacy · · Score: 1

      I know a lot of people who live in London (I live about an hour away myself), and not one of them has ever been attacked by thugs. They're not particularly well-off or rich people, either. And of course you can resist. You just can't carry a gun to do it with.

      --
      A closed mouth gathers no foot.
    48. Re:Halving power usage of streetlights, easy. by Grishnakh · · Score: 1

      Good luck resisting a gang of thugs when you're only a single person, especially if you're a single woman.

    49. Re:Halving power usage of streetlights, easy. by psychodelicacy · · Score: 1

      These gangs of thugs who roam our lawless streets preying on the weak and vulnerable? I've never seen one. No one I know has ever seen one. Most of Britain is not plagued with them. On the whole, where they exist they seem to be more worried about attacking rival gang members and their associates.

      So, no, I wouldn't stand up at all well to attack by a gang. But I doubt I'll ever have to.

      --
      A closed mouth gathers no foot.
    50. Re:Halving power usage of streetlights, easy. by Grishnakh · · Score: 1

      That's funny, I was able to find all kinds of stuff about gangs in London with a quick Google search. Either you're a liar, or completely naive.

      Mugged by gang:
      http://icsouthlondon.icnetwork.co.uk/0100news/0550wandsworth/tm_headline=mugged-by-gang-of-thugs&method=full&objectid=18485578&siteid=50100-name_page.html

      169 gangs currently active in London:
      http://www.bbc.co.uk/london/content/articles/2007/03/14/gang_insider_feature.shtml

      Islamic gangs in London have guns:
      http://www.militantislammonitor.org/article/id/755

      16-year-old boy murdered by gang:
      http://forums.canadiancontent.net/news/64167-boy-skewered-death-railings-violent.html

      Armed london gangs recruiting via YouTube:
      http://www.dailymail.co.uk/pages/live/articles/news/news.html?in_article_id=437617&in_page_id=1770

      "London violence scarred us all":
      http://www.guardian.co.uk/society/2007/jul/01/youthjustice.crime

      Thug gangs ruining Liverpool:
      http://www.blackpoolgazette.co.uk/blackpoolnews/Thug-gangs-ruining-Blackpool.3781214.jp

      Have fun when you have children and they're forced to join a gang.

  54. Mod down, totally inaccurate by SuperKendall · · Score: 1

    As others have noted, this poster is off his rocker. I too am a photographer and deal with color temperature all the time...

    --
    "There is more worth loving than we have strength to love." - Brian Jay Stanley
    1. Re:Mod down, totally inaccurate by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Oh wow, you're a photographer! That must mean you know everything about physics!

    2. Re:Mod down, totally inaccurate by modecx · · Score: 1

      Which poster are you replying to? The one you actually replied to is pretty much spot on, the gp to your post is the one off his rocker.

      Anyway, who cares about street lamps: these lamps would make for killer, very color correct hot lights. I want ten. Yesterday.

      --
      Constitutional rights may be respected, repealed, or modified; but they must never be ignored.
    3. Re:Mod down, totally inaccurate by poopdeville · · Score: 1

      You can say I'm off my rocker, but the fact remains: incandescent lamps are very accurately modeled by blackbody radiators (and the smaller and hotter they get, the better the approximation), which have the property that the "color" (or more accurately, the continuous spectrum) they emit is completely dependent on the temperature at which they operate. Moreover, incandescent lamps are modeled accurately enough that their thermal temperature (at the points where they emit light) is essentially their color temperature.

      The fact that you're a photographer means nothing. In fact, it's rather worrying that you rely on your "credentials" to dismiss real physics.

      Consider this: a regular incandescent bulb operates at about 2500K. AT THE COIL. Look it up if you don't believe me. There's a pretty good vacuum between the coil and the glass bulb. Vacua are pretty good thermal insulators. This is why the glass isn't 2500K, and more like 400K.

      If you want to get into "corrected" color temperature, a unit used for discrete spectrum lamps, that's a different story. That unit depends on psychological factors. However, the lamp in the article is a "full spectrum" lamp, which means that it is a continuous spectrum lamp. Until you discover super neato new physics, that means it is incandescent, and so accurately modeled by a black body, and so the thermal temperature at the light emitter is the color temperature.

      --
      After all, I am strangely colored.
  55. "...bulb operates at temperatures up to 6000K..." by AetherBurner · · Score: 1

    Let's see...bulb operates at temperatures up to 6000K. 6000 deg K = 10,340 deg F. I sincerely doubt the unit would last long at that high of a temperature. I can see the light being given off has the spectrum distribution of a "blackbody radiator" at 6000 deg K. The phrase should be reworded to read "...bulb operates at color temperatures up to 6000K..." Yawn.

  56. Where I live the lights arent to prevent accidents by stomv · · Score: 2, Informative

    but rather, because we have these rare pieces of real estate called sidewalks, and people who actually use them for walking.

  57. To Complete the Hack by DynaSoar · · Score: 1

    The temperature/heat problem is easily solved by simply making the device compatible with current light fixtures. Build the device into a bulb of similar size and shape to incandescents and/or compact fluourescents. You have to build them into the same screw-in fitting, so doing the whole job is simply including both parts (bulb envelope and screw-in fitting) of the existing process. The vacuum in the bulb (between the bulb envelope and the device) would help the device maintain its operating temperature, a necessary part of its operation. This too is part of the existing process. The device will never replaced LED in closed spaces, such as instrument panels, but replacing light bulbs and compact fluourescents is very doable safely with existing manufacturing processes.

    --
    "I may be synthetic, but I'm not stupid." -- Bishop 341-B
  58. RF emitter? by Collin · · Score: 2, Interesting

    A while back Cringely had a post about what sounds like a similar tech from Fusion Lighting and one of the drawbacks that he pointed out was that every one of those bulbs became a RF emitter in the 2.4Ghz range and thus would interfere with WiFi and the other numerous devices that use that unlicensed spectrum. This sounds very similiar, but so far no mention of the interference problem. Anybody know if this has the same issues? If it does, then it could be a polluter in both the visible light (as pointed out by many posts above) and RF ranges.

  59. MOd up, besides- who would make new computers, etc by spineboy · · Score: 1

    I totally agree with the parent! - Besides who would make newer, faster computers, or better spectrophotometers that help us find better compunds to cure the cancer. We need the botanists studying the life cycle of something totally irrelevant, like mold that a sub species of a gypsy moth eats. The cancer researchers can then often find something of use.

    I'm not saying it well, but basic research is essential, not immediately, but for everything else. The knowledge built then has a synergistic effect.

    Yes, every once and a while a certain subject needs a little attention, to help to really develop knowledge in a certain field. Like the HIV virus - the human immune system wasn't really understood at all. Now much of the research that went into HIV, has produced fruitful offspring, such as monoclonal antibodies which.....TAA-DAA... help fight cancer.

    --
    ..........FULL STOP.
  60. Re:Short answer.... by symbolset · · Score: 5, Interesting

    Time to add nimp.org to your hosts file. The link is an auto redirect from rds.yahoo.com to members.on.nimp.org. This is how Yahoo redirects search results to find out who clicked what. Yawho? search results are thus no longer safe to click. For best results, add rds.yahoo.com to your hosts file or equivalent blocker as well.

    members.on.nimp.org resolves to poulet0.zoy.org. The IP address is [80.65.228.130]. Best to block that as well. The DNS administrator for this server is Slashdot User "Sam H", UID 3979.

    Somebody at slashdot should have a look at our anonymous coward's IP address. It would be nice if we could quit this nonsense. I hope this isn't some troll that bought a low UID in the auction.

    And maybe some slashdotter in Paris could call Sam and ask him to fix his compromised server. It does look like someone truly nasty took it over in August of 2005. Big Debian fan this one. Likes the GNAA routine and the whole bit.

    I'm not certain about pinning this on Sam. sam.zoy.org resolves to a different IP. One of you intertubes wizards want to weigh in here?

    --
    Help stamp out iliturcy.
  61. 6000K by BytePusher · · Score: 1

    If you watch the video, you'll see that the engineer explaining the technology says that the plasma IS 6000K, which is why it closely matches the spectrum of light we see from the sun.

  62. snake oil by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    We've had light bulbs that work using snake oil for centuries

  63. Re:Where I live the lights arent to prevent accide by Jah-Wren+Ryel · · Score: 2, Informative

    because we have these rare pieces of real estate called sidewalks, and people who actually use them for walking. Which is often counter-productive because they kill situational awareness. Sure the people walking on the sidewalk can see the ground right in front of them just fine, but what they can't see is 3 feet off to the left or the right where a mugger is standing just beyond the edge of the light waiting for them.

    I'd rather they spent the money on better quality sidewalks and let our eyes do what they were made to do - adjust to the light.
    --
    When information is power, privacy is freedom.
  64. Color Temperature Posting Round-Up by Non-Huffable+Kitten · · Score: 1

    Why is this modded informative? You just need to sound confident ;)

    Enter /., where we have not three, not four, but five "my color temperature knowledge! let me show you it (nvm it's not what TFA is about)" postings:

    http://hardware.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=496584&cid=22831910

    http://hardware.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=496584&cid=22832306 (GP)

    http://hardware.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=496584&cid=22831980

    http://hardware.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=496584&cid=22832174

    http://hardware.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=496584&cid=22832278

    Btw, "it takes one to know one" does apply to smartassitude, so take this posting with a grain of salt please...
    --
    Medium cat is MEDIUM.
  65. LED's are that efficient by slagell · · Score: 1

    Look at the Cree XR-E (R2 flux bin) or the SSC P4 (V flux bin). They are pretty much there at around 120 lumens per watt, and these are in regular production. Hell, I have flashlights with these in them. And prototype LED's are getting up to 300 lumens/watt of visible light.

    I forget the reference, but there is a paper from a few years ago that essentially proved nothing can ever beat a P-N junction in efficiency. LED's are the future.

  66. Young eyes by TapeCutter · · Score: 1

    A 50yo such as myself usually can't read a street directory directly under the interior light of the car, let alone ride a mountain bike in the dark. Having said that, all stargazers know that the phase of the moon can make a huge difference to visibility.

    --
    And did you exchange a walk on part in the war for a lead role in a cage? - Pink Floyd.
    1. Re:Young eyes by ultranova · · Score: 1

      A 50yo such as myself usually can't read a street directory directly under the interior light of the car, let alone ride a mountain bike in the dark.

      Get a dynamo-powered headlight for said bike, and you don't have to.

      --

      Forget magic. Any technology distinguishable from divine power is insufficiently advanced.

  67. White LEDs at 300 lumens per watt by tinpan · · Score: 3, Interesting
  68. Re:Short answer.... by symbolset · · Score: 3, Informative

    Apparently Sam is a debian developer of some major projects.

    If you're interested, the links on the left at that page give some interesting depth of background. He has a long and interesting history.

    Be careful with this stuff. The above link goes to his server and they can be changed at any time. They appear to be harmless at the time I'm writing this though. Some of the content is NSFW.

    He's apparently a big deal in IT.

    It's possible his server's been owned, but if somebody did that, they did a remarkably convincing job of integrating the bad into the good.

    I'm torn here. Responsible geek reaches his dotage at the ripe old age of 30? Trolls have decided to reach over into illegal activity? Some combination of the above? I regret I lack the time and tools to look into it further.

    We'll just have to be more careful.

    --
    Help stamp out iliturcy.
  69. lifetime by phsdv · · Score: 1
    All you write makes sense, finally someone that knows what he/she is talking about.

    I want to point something out though. Although LED lifetime is often claimed to be 50000 hours or more (70K, even 100K), I am sure that the first LED lamps on the market will fail before the LED itself fails... Why? Because wires will corrode or the electronics needed to run the LED will fail first.

    Most consumer electronics is designed for 10 years of average operation, which is like 6000 hour of operating. Even electronics in a car does not need to work longer than that. (say 300000km with an average speed of 50km/h = 6000 hours of driving).

    So if nothing is done and standard electronic components are taken, the electronics will fail at less than 12% (6000/50000) of the lifetime of the LED.

    For CFL bulbs this is not a big issue, there their life time is close tho the lifetime of the electronics anyway.

  70. Enthusiasm by Fantastic+Lad · · Score: 1
    I hate to be the one to break it to you, but I have to tell you that your incandescents are already running at 3000K. If you are so into lighting technology perhaps you might try to find time to actually study up on the subject.


    Well now! That just goes to show you can always count on a nerd to get miss a chance to share interesting details with others in the spirit of enthusiasm and instead use knowledge as a means of strutting feathers in some kind of penis-measuring contest.

    You'll pardon me for still finding joy in this technology even though my knowledge of its details may remain be somewhat less than perfect.


    -FL

  71. low pressue soduim is efficient by thule · · Score: 1

    I don't know which lamps you are specifically speaking of, but I can tell you the low pressure sodium lamps are very, very, very power efficient. A typical street lamp of this type might be 60-100 watts, but is very bright. A lot of power has already been saved by going to this type of lamp.

    This new plasma could displace these types of lamps because police and fire departments hate what the lamps do to colors. You can't tell the difference between blood and oil.

    1. Re:low pressue soduim is efficient by lucifuge31337 · · Score: 1

      I don't know which lamps you are specifically speaking of, but I can tell you the low pressure sodium lamps are very, very, very power efficient. A typical street lamp of this type might be 60-100 watts, but is very bright. They're more than that unless you're talking about very low to the ground ones. And they're typically high pressure sodium..... While they do kick the crap out of household style incandescents (typical 100 W bulb puts out 1400 or so lumens, where a high pressure sodium at the same wattage put out closer to 10,000) they look like ass because of their color temperature. TFA states full-spectrum, which would be pretty nice.
      --
      Do not fold, spindle or mutilate.
  72. Size of the lamp by tinkerton · · Score: 1

    The temperature on the outside of an incandescent lamp depends a lot on the size of the bulb, not on the temperature of the tiny thingy in the middle of the lamp. And the size of the bulb depends on safety considerations. For example, it matters if the bulb should be allowed to get dirty. Let's take two measures: same wattage and same luminosity.

    - A 6000K 60W bulb will give much more light than a 3000K 60W bulb. Because glass is more transparent to light than to heat you could make the bulb smaller to end up with the same surface temperature. On the other hand the amount of energy the bulb dissipates is the same, so if you take ordinary use where the lamp is allowed to accumulate some dirt, then you'd prefer not to make the bulb much smaller.
    - For the same amount of light you'd only need a 6000K 3w bulb or so instead of a 3000K 60w bulb, so it can be made much much smaller.

    By design the glass (quartz) of halogen lamps has to run very hot in order to work but you can imagine adding an "outer bulb" with a certain radius to achieve the same safety demands. Halogen lamps often are behind a protective sheet of glass.

  73. Hey check out my new flashlight by Charcharodon · · Score: 1

    I want one of those bulbs in a tac-flashlight, though at 6000K it might be a little hard to hold onto.

  74. How many lights do you HAVE??? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    A single room heater is ~1kW. Pnel heaters on the few hundred watt range are "additional sources" unable to carry the load on their own. Even if the light bulb os 0% efficient, that would mean you have 10x 100W light bulbs to heat ONE ROOM. 10% efficient means you need 11 100W bulbs.

    That's a really bright room.

    Unless you're talking bollocks.

    1. Re:How many lights do you HAVE??? by maroberts · · Score: 1

      All my bulbs at home are low energy florescents, except for a few LED bulbs in the kitchen spotlights (2 LED, 2 standard) and a couple of standard bulbs on dimmer switches, so I won't be getting much heat out of those :-)

      --

      Donte Alistair Anderson Roberts - hi son!
      Karma: Chameleon

  75. Re:Driving + Night Blindness by nitehawk214 · · Score: 1

    >Driving requires that we can see dozens to hundreds of yards ahead, so need brighter illumination.

    When driving in the rain, the lights have a habit of reflecting off of everything, the road rain on your windshield, etc, compounding the problem.

    --
    I'm a good cook. I'm a fantastic eater. - Steven Brust
  76. Re:Short answer.... by KooperG · · Score: 1

    so the guy that put up the virus is one of the people that made the VideoLan Player .... damn i just downloaded that like 5 minutes ago... help :\

  77. LEDs are up to 100 lm/w by Cinnaman · · Score: 1

    Commonly available Cree R2 LEDS are 100 lumens per watt so this new light bulb is 1.4 times the efficiency. It'll be interesting to see if it appears in anything in the future or will just be an interesting technology that remains unexploited due to cheaper competing technologies.

  78. Re:Short answer.... by TheLink · · Score: 1

    That server probably hosts multiple domains. I think it's Sam's hosting provider who got pwn3d. So linking this to Sam is probably premature.

    try whois 80.65.228.130

    Slashdot's lameness filter prevents me from posting the results.

    --
  79. Re:Where I live the lights arent to prevent accide by TheLink · · Score: 1

    Would be nice if someone came up with cheap AND really good night vision goggles - wide field of view :).

    --
  80. Re:Short answer.... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    There is nothing illegal about the content on nimp.org.

    Now, if you want to talk about this, why don't we address the multiple and repeated posts from myself warning you all that Sam Hocevar, who at the time was running for Debian Project Leader, was the one hosting this website. This was like over a year ago. I was ignored and called a troll.

    I get the last laugh on this one.

  81. Re:Short answer.... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Informative

    Nope, I can assure you that Sam is 100% responsible for this. Nimp.org has been hosting that content for several years now.

    The real suckers are those of you who didn't believe me when I warned you about Sam's association with GNAA, trolling, scat porn, and the like, before you elected him to Debian Project Leader.

  82. That's not what I wrote by symbolset · · Score: 2, Interesting

    I missed your thread.

    Certain aspects of this troll may be illegal in some jurisdictions. I don't know for sure - I'm not in law enforcement. It may not actually be a virus, but only a file that contains a signature. I'm not going to fire up a VM and infect it just to find out. Using Yahoo for URL obfuscation is interesting, though.

    I also did not say that he is the actor here -- only that he's the DNS administrator for the server involved, and that novices shouldn't toy with such levels of uncertainty unless they accept the risks.

    Sam Hocevar is a valuable member of the community. My initial concern was that this was some compromised server that should be fixed and then some curiosity about what was going on. If it happened that Sam got his amusement trolling the internet, well, I guess I could get over the inconvenience of blocking his site. Note that I'm not saying that this is the case -- just that if it were, then I'm no longer interested in the issue. I would think that someone with this level of skill would cover his tracks better if he cared to. Professional trolling can be an unpleasant but instructive laboratory in the field of social dynamics. I'm not interested enough in the field to engage in it myself, but as long as they keep it legal I don't have a problem with it.

    Cmdr Taco does a good job of structuring Slashdot so these folks can be modded down quickly and disappear unless you're looking for them. In fact, we probably shouldn't be discussing the trolls at all. They thrive on the attention. That's all I've got to say about this.

    --
    Help stamp out iliturcy.
    1. Re:That's not what I wrote by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      That is what you wrote.

      As I said, Sam is 100% behind this stuff - not necessarily that particular post, but it is HIS site that HE set up several years ago. Sam is/was a member of GNAA and participated in its activities.

      I can assure you there are no viruses involved.

      blah blah morality blah blah who cares

    2. Re:That's not what I wrote by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Sam is not 100% behind this stuff. He's hosting it. As far as I know he never had any part in developing it (was originally penisbird's code, though went through many generations since then). Anyone can and does link to it. Sam's is just the most reliable mirror that is still around.

      Yes sam was involved in the GNAA. He wrote a lot of nice tools like pwntcha. He might have even ran a few, but that never really seemed to be what got him off.

      I trust his packages and his involvement with debian 100%. I also don't see anything wrong with hosting something like LastMeasure-- If it gets developers to fix their code then more power to them.

  83. The bulb Panasonic is using now? by RandLS · · Score: 1

    I just bought a Panasonic PT-56LCZ70 - one of their new "LIFI" rear projection TVs. If i'm not horribly mistaken, this is the bulb they are using now. They rate the life at 20,000 hours, they describe it as a sealed, electrode-less lamp that is powered by microwaves, and they get pretty darn bright on relatively low wattage.

  84. Re:Where I live the lights arent to prevent accide by DMUTPeregrine · · Score: 1

    Maglite. Get a big one, say a 6 D-cell one. It's bright, has wide area illumination, and doubles as a very solid club.

    --
    Not a sentence!
  85. Re:That's all well and ... good god! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    >> This would be wonderful for a panted tank or for reef tanks.

    I'll have you know, sir, that all my tanks proudly wear dresses!

    And are not ashamed of it.

  86. Lumen-Fresh Joy of Man's Desire by Silber+Streak · · Score: 1

    Hallelujah! -- A light bulb that saves the world AND keeps my breath feeling fresh all day!

  87. Sunburn by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    If it's a nice, warm, sunny light, doesn't that mean its UV will burn skin and eyes just like the sun's does?

  88. Re:Short answer.... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Just because it pops open a bunch of windows with goatse, weightlifter, and etc. doesn't make it a virus buddy.

  89. efficiency isn't that impressive by Khashishi · · Score: 1

    The low pressure sodium vapor lamps that are ubiquitous in streets of USA are already pretty efficient (80-180 lm/W according to @everything2 and up to 200lm/W according to wikipedia). The impressive thing about the new light bulb is the purportedly white spectrum. The sodium street lamps paint the city an ugly orange-yellow.

  90. Re:"...bulb operates at temperatures up to 6000K.. by Courageous · · Score: 1

    If you go read their material at the site, the bulb is electro-magnetically stimulated plasma. They say that the core of it is no-kidding 6000K.

    The way I understand it, there are no filaments and what not to burn out...

    C//

  91. I maintain a warehouse of flammable items by Amitz+Sekali · · Score: 1

    The risk of fire in incandescent lamp is pretty negligible because when short circuit or fire happens, fuse will automatically disconnect the electricity. Flourescent lamp (and I believe this new lamp) is dangerous not because of the lamp itself, but because of the enclosing circuits. The sparks caused under certain circumstances, is not detectable by fuse.

    --
    If you delay pleasure infinitely, the pleasure will be infinite. (YM)
  92. as long as the CODE is clean by alizard · · Score: 0, Offtopic

    speaking as a Debian user, who cares?

    The other obvious point is. . . anyone who shows up as "Anonymous Coward" with warnings about recognized members of a community is going to get ignored or laughed at even if he's right.

    I'll start worrying when my program splash screens are covered with scat pr0n or GNAA sigs.

  93. Animated comparison by sheilagh · · Score: 1

    Suggestion: create animated comparisons of your two cases, bright points of light & gulfs of darkness versus more even illumination. Something like this, which compares traffic behaviors (which drivers can actively influence) in the left and right animations: http://amasci.com/amateur/traffic/seatraf.html

  94. Bad Idea. by HighFrictionZone · · Score: 1

    If they could get street lights that can turn on and off quickly, then it might be possible to add a noise or motion sensor so that a strip of street lights turn on automatically when needed. Ever go from a dark room to a well-lit room, or suddenly turned on the lights in a dark room? How about stared down the lights of oncoming traffic? Generally, going from being surrounded by dark to not being surrounded by dark means your eyes have to adjust. And that means you are temporarily blinded for a period of time. Lights which turn on/off based on people being nearby are a bad idea for precisely this reason: it is dark, your eyes adjust, then WHAM. And suddenly your eyes have to adjust to the light and you're worse off than if you were already adjusted to the light OR if you were in the dark. So yeah, not the best idea.
  95. Re:Where I live the lights arent to prevent accide by Kelbear · · Score: 1

    What if someone drives by with their headlights on?

  96. They are quoting RF power, not AC! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Keep in mind the power quoted is in RF power, there is a penatly from converting from DC to RF power. In this case it's 30 percent. So that makes it only 98 lumens/watt from DC. The conversion from AC to DC is typically 95% efficient, so this now gives you 93 Lumens/watt. You must also add forced air cooling (fans), which add more wattage lost to the system. Eventually this type of lighting will be more efficient, but it probably won't happen because of this company--they simply don't have the vision, as is the case with most VC-backed companies.