And OS-warp doesn't ship anymore because of MS. waaah! In a free market lots of people choose to not ship a product because it won't sell due to any number of reasons. But saying MS isn't doing the choosing is disengenious. Waah! Microsoft can't segment the market the way they want to. Cry more.
OS Warp failed as a product. Let me ask you, if it wasn't MS but some four man shop that was doing this, what would your attitude be? If its the same, then you don't think developers have the right to decide how to build and sell their work. If its different, well, you just hate MS and back up your thinking with rationalization and moral relativity.
So you think MS is protecting their end users from some threat or are they only protecting their self-interests?
It has nothing to do with a threat; its a third party disrupting what is an amicable agreement between two other parties (or rather in this case the third party is a subset of one of the parties). Sorry, your attempts to derail the discussion haven't worked.
They can't ship the product they way they want to because of Jamie.
If some event were canceled because someone called in a bomb threat, you would not blame the organizers of the event would you? Surely it would be the person that made the threat that is to blame.
No, I don't think that's the problem. I left Linux because it seemed I had to fight with it to get anything done, like update a program. Using it was ok; changing or adding programs, or getting the server to set policy on my workstations... that was another matter.
Also, am I the only person that doesn't really see a great amount of outrageous pro-linux bias on Slashdot?
That depends, what do you run as your desktop? I like Linux, but went back to Windows so I could just use my computer when I wanted to.. Linux seemed to want to make me fight to get anything upgraded (or get my printer working..).
I did give it a good try though; two years as a desktop and eight or so as a server.
I can't speak for Jewish people, I don't know any anymore.
Even if its a legally binding contract it still doesn't support the OPs sweeping generalization. The fact is in the US, most marriages are not covered by any form of contract and adultery is not illegal in most places.
Where? In the parent post you replied to or in the register article on this topic that is linked in the synopsis above.
The blog linked to by the poster to which I responded.
This might happen, but it is a gamble on microsofts part. They know that if the remove express from the marketplace then alot of students studying programming will not be able to afford the full version.
Nope. You can get an academic license for very very cheap (I believe under $100).
1) Stop working from home.
For many this is simply not an option. Even if it was it doesnt benefit anyone in the long term as they will undoubtably suffer in the long term as they will not be as capable programmers as they could have been had they coded into the night for years on end.
Bull. Just because you code 'into the night for years on end' does not mean you will be a good developer. Not being able to work at home isn't a show stopper either. Trust me, I've been to college and there's plenty I couldn't do from my dorm / apartment.
2) Pirate the full version.
This has the result of getting people used to using knock off software. Since this is a mindset the MS are trying avoid people getting into as if they have to use pirated software for the duration of the degree they may continue when they start work instead of asking their boss to buy them a license for their home PC if they need to work from home alot.
Given that each version of studio has more features, I suspect there is a fair amount of piracy already.
3) Use a different IDE or platform.
This is worst case scenario for MS. For starters, it means that alot of the professionals of tomorrow are able to use non-MS products reducing vendor lock in to.NET. The most expensive part of vendor lock in to deal with is training people and changing their habits so this is very bad from microsofts point of view (I work for a training company). It gives companies more freedom to move to a different platform without having to retrain all their staff.
I'm sorry, I used Unix and C++ (no IDE) all through my college years. It didn't stop me from picking up on the MS platform. Its more important that you know the theories, then you can apply them almost anyway. Learning the IDE is not a hard task, especially when you work with others that know it. I have no doubt that given the oppertunity, I could move the the Java world.
Of the three options listed above, option 1 is out of the question for a great many students (The kind like me who slept during lectures). That leaves option 2 or 3. Option 2 is a far better choice from microsofts point of view and one the used to ignore people doing (maybe even encourage), now however they are certainly trying to change peoples mindset such that pirated software is bad from a very young age.
Or they could simply buy an academic license, and get more features than the Express version even offered. Any decent CS program would enable you to work on any platform and that you wouldn't be tied to the IDE. I would suspect that many places don't even let you near an IDE, I know I wasn't.
I'm trying to follow you here: you'd rather see no cure than a cure that costs $10 million a pop (and presumably $10 a pop in fifty years, technology being what it is)? Here's a hint: rich people willing to spend absurd amounts of money to extend their lives by 6 months fund most of medical research. What do you propose: "no, no, you don't deserve to live another 6 months, so you're not allowed to spend your money, meanwhile we'll take everyone's tax dollars instead"?
I'd rather a cure be found at $10 immediately. Your statement about how 'most medical research' is funded is bogus. Prove it.
As for "greed deciding": the only true measure of the worth of anything is what people are willing to pay for it. Or do you instead favor aristocracy? The "worthy, wise men" decide the value of everything and dictate it to the unwashed masses? I think I'll take "greed deciding" over "plague3106 deciding", thank you.
Tell me, in your world view, if someone can make $1.4 million by killing some people, that's fine? What if they are simply letting them die through inaction? That's acceptable to you?
Your comment on aristocracy is moronic. Captitalism is fine for determing the value of many things, but I don't think people's lives are one of those things. Why is it always all or nothing with people on this site?
I know you'd hate for me to decide whats important; you wouldn't have your blue pill to make you think you're a man anymore. You'd have research to find cures for diseases, not just developing pills to 'manage' the symptoms for those diseases. Its too bad really, because the medical industry can make more money off of managing symtoms of sick people than simply curing them.
You're a dolt. Adultery is NOT illegal in almost every county in the US. That, along with many other blue laws have been tossed out years ago. What contract did you sign when you got married? Most people only get a piece of paper stating that they are married.. there are no terms on it.
Wow, that's some nice spin there. Or out right lies, which ever you prefer. The blog says none of those things.
Personally I think it was a good idea to get a free version for those that wanted to try their hands at programming.Net. You don't even need Testdriven.net to unit test with Express. Where did that idea come from? Express might dry up now because of Jamie (yes, it would be his fault).
I agree that the other crap can go, but given the choice between publicly funded medical research which anyone could use the results of, and privately funded that will find a 'cure' and sell it for a mere $10 million a pop, I'd take the former. Also, I don't think we need more pills to help rich old white men get it up... but that's what we're getting when greed decides what research is 'worthy.'
I think that's the basic problem, companies see support as a cost center. Of course without good support, companies will be abandoned. So its not really costing them money to help you, its ensuring they get your money tomorrow when you are happy to buy their product again because of great service.
Service is why I left comcast in the dust, and why my wife and I won't be buying another car from a certain dealership.
You'd be guessing wrong. "Upper echelon" at ATI isn't really upper echelon if they must now answer to another corporate structure. In other words, they are irrelevent. There's no reason for AMD (or any company) to buy ATI and not start merging them into the fold.
AMD slapping their logo on the graphics card boxes is the first step in getting their name synonymous with graphics. It doesn't take as much as you think. For Westwood, I think it was one title, and the next title they produced was under the EA brand (Generals).
Wow, you are dense aren't you? I don't know the answer to your first question, but the next two questions, the answer is YES. That's kinda what happens when you buy something, you take control & responsibility of it..
Nice. The only 'solution' that article provides is for you to give up your driver to someone else. Excellent idea. Sounds really 'free' to me.
Of course this is handled in the.Net world rather nicely, and you don't even need to worry about some developer that can't bother to read the documentation to figure out which interface is obsolete. (Which is apparently a very big problem in the linux driver development).
Personally if I were ATI (or NVidia), I'd simply abandon support for Linux completely, since it seems as the changes in Linux are there to intentially hinder a company that doesn't have a 'compatible' mindset. Hmm, I wonder where I've heard that complain before..
I can't find the article at the moment, but it seems there was a way to do it, using rainbow tables or some such thing. So yes, brute force, but still pretty doable.
It doesn't sound like it. Those IDEs automate a great deal of mundane crap, which allows me to focus on what I actually need to do; build business applications.
I can't speak for the other IDEs, but there's no 'secret rituals' that VS performs for you; it simply performs tasks using a few keystrokes that would otherwise require much more effort on my part. You may prefer using a text editor and typing a compile command manually, but I think most of us want to finish our project quicker.
Funny, because when I was using express, I didn't see any add-in options available. So they obviously did something. They may not have removed the functionality, but instead set a flag to disable it. Since Jamie himself mentions modifying the registry (something you DON'T need to do when installing an add-in), I suspect it was to enabled the functionality MS disabled.
Well, that is certainly good news. I plan to move to the next VS when it arrives.
As far as Jamie goes, I suspect he had to do something out of the ordinary to get add-ins to work with VS Express. I would imagine the version of VS he uses has this clause as well, and I don't think it would be a stretch to say he wasn't allowed to use his copy of VS to reverse engineer another version of it..
I think MS is in the right on this one; one good way to sell products is to have different features. Imagine what would happen if you had to physically rip code out of a product to get the less featured model. It would only make build such software more difficult. As a developer, I think this is a right we have (to make different editions of software) and I would hate to lose that ability because someone comes along with some cute hacks to make enable all the bells and whistles..
Slashdot Mirror
I don't care what people use my code for.
So you don't care if your code is used to help track some minority a government hates and wants to exterminate?
And OS-warp doesn't ship anymore because of MS. waaah! In a free market lots of people choose to not ship a product because it won't sell due to any number of reasons. But saying MS isn't doing the choosing is disengenious. Waah! Microsoft can't segment the market the way they want to. Cry more.
OS Warp failed as a product. Let me ask you, if it wasn't MS but some four man shop that was doing this, what would your attitude be? If its the same, then you don't think developers have the right to decide how to build and sell their work. If its different, well, you just hate MS and back up your thinking with rationalization and moral relativity.
So you think MS is protecting their end users from some threat or are they only protecting their self-interests?
It has nothing to do with a threat; its a third party disrupting what is an amicable agreement between two other parties (or rather in this case the third party is a subset of one of the parties). Sorry, your attempts to derail the discussion haven't worked.
They can't ship the product they way they want to because of Jamie.
If some event were canceled because someone called in a bomb threat, you would not blame the organizers of the event would you? Surely it would be the person that made the threat that is to blame.
No, I don't think that's the problem. I left Linux because it seemed I had to fight with it to get anything done, like update a program. Using it was ok; changing or adding programs, or getting the server to set policy on my workstations... that was another matter.
Also, am I the only person that doesn't really see a great amount of outrageous pro-linux bias on Slashdot?
That depends, what do you run as your desktop? I like Linux, but went back to Windows so I could just use my computer when I wanted to.. Linux seemed to want to make me fight to get anything upgraded (or get my printer working..).
I did give it a good try though; two years as a desktop and eight or so as a server.
I can't speak for Jewish people, I don't know any anymore.
Even if its a legally binding contract it still doesn't support the OPs sweeping generalization. The fact is in the US, most marriages are not covered by any form of contract and adultery is not illegal in most places.
Where? In the parent post you replied to or in the register article on this topic that is linked in the synopsis above.
.NET. The most expensive part of vendor lock in to deal with is training people and changing their habits so this is very bad from microsofts point of view (I work for a training company). It gives companies more freedom to move to a different platform without having to retrain all their staff.
The blog linked to by the poster to which I responded.
This might happen, but it is a gamble on microsofts part. They know that if the remove express from the marketplace then alot of students studying programming will not be able to afford the full version.
Nope. You can get an academic license for very very cheap (I believe under $100).
1) Stop working from home.
For many this is simply not an option. Even if it was it doesnt benefit anyone in the long term as they will undoubtably suffer in the long term as they will not be as capable programmers as they could have been had they coded into the night for years on end.
Bull. Just because you code 'into the night for years on end' does not mean you will be a good developer. Not being able to work at home isn't a show stopper either. Trust me, I've been to college and there's plenty I couldn't do from my dorm / apartment.
2) Pirate the full version.
This has the result of getting people used to using knock off software. Since this is a mindset the MS are trying avoid people getting into as if they have to use pirated software for the duration of the degree they may continue when they start work instead of asking their boss to buy them a license for their home PC if they need to work from home alot.
Given that each version of studio has more features, I suspect there is a fair amount of piracy already.
3) Use a different IDE or platform.
This is worst case scenario for MS. For starters, it means that alot of the professionals of tomorrow are able to use non-MS products reducing vendor lock in to
I'm sorry, I used Unix and C++ (no IDE) all through my college years. It didn't stop me from picking up on the MS platform. Its more important that you know the theories, then you can apply them almost anyway. Learning the IDE is not a hard task, especially when you work with others that know it. I have no doubt that given the oppertunity, I could move the the Java world.
Of the three options listed above, option 1 is out of the question for a great many students (The kind like me who slept during lectures). That leaves option 2 or 3. Option 2 is a far better choice from microsofts point of view and one the used to ignore people doing (maybe even encourage), now however they are certainly trying to change peoples mindset such that pirated software is bad from a very young age.
Or they could simply buy an academic license, and get more features than the Express version even offered. Any decent CS program would enable you to work on any platform and that you wouldn't be tied to the IDE. I would suspect that many places don't even let you near an IDE, I know I wasn't.
I'm trying to follow you here: you'd rather see no cure than a cure that costs $10 million a pop (and presumably $10 a pop in fifty years, technology being what it is)? Here's a hint: rich people willing to spend absurd amounts of money to extend their lives by 6 months fund most of medical research. What do you propose: "no, no, you don't deserve to live another 6 months, so you're not allowed to spend your money, meanwhile we'll take everyone's tax dollars instead"?
I'd rather a cure be found at $10 immediately. Your statement about how 'most medical research' is funded is bogus. Prove it.
As for "greed deciding": the only true measure of the worth of anything is what people are willing to pay for it. Or do you instead favor aristocracy? The "worthy, wise men" decide the value of everything and dictate it to the unwashed masses? I think I'll take "greed deciding" over "plague3106 deciding", thank you.
Tell me, in your world view, if someone can make $1.4 million by killing some people, that's fine? What if they are simply letting them die through inaction? That's acceptable to you?
Your comment on aristocracy is moronic. Captitalism is fine for determing the value of many things, but I don't think people's lives are one of those things. Why is it always all or nothing with people on this site?
I know you'd hate for me to decide whats important; you wouldn't have your blue pill to make you think you're a man anymore. You'd have research to find cures for diseases, not just developing pills to 'manage' the symptoms for those diseases. Its too bad really, because the medical industry can make more money off of managing symtoms of sick people than simply curing them.
You're a dolt. Adultery is NOT illegal in almost every county in the US. That, along with many other blue laws have been tossed out years ago. What contract did you sign when you got married? Most people only get a piece of paper stating that they are married.. there are no terms on it.
Wow, that's some nice spin there. Or out right lies, which ever you prefer. The blog says none of those things.
.Net. You don't even need Testdriven.net to unit test with Express. Where did that idea come from? Express might dry up now because of Jamie (yes, it would be his fault).
Personally I think it was a good idea to get a free version for those that wanted to try their hands at programming
You must like Nietzsche.
I agree that the other crap can go, but given the choice between publicly funded medical research which anyone could use the results of, and privately funded that will find a 'cure' and sell it for a mere $10 million a pop, I'd take the former. Also, I don't think we need more pills to help rich old white men get it up... but that's what we're getting when greed decides what research is 'worthy.'
Unfortunately I can't, as I fell asleep within the first 10 minutes of that movie.
I think that's the basic problem, companies see support as a cost center. Of course without good support, companies will be abandoned. So its not really costing them money to help you, its ensuring they get your money tomorrow when you are happy to buy their product again because of great service.
Service is why I left comcast in the dust, and why my wife and I won't be buying another car from a certain dealership.
You'd be guessing wrong. "Upper echelon" at ATI isn't really upper echelon if they must now answer to another corporate structure. In other words, they are irrelevent. There's no reason for AMD (or any company) to buy ATI and not start merging them into the fold.
AMD slapping their logo on the graphics card boxes is the first step in getting their name synonymous with graphics. It doesn't take as much as you think. For Westwood, I think it was one title, and the next title they produced was under the EA brand (Generals).
In reality this is likely due to the every changing kernel API that some will try to convience you is a good thing.
Wow, you are dense aren't you? I don't know the answer to your first question, but the next two questions, the answer is YES. That's kinda what happens when you buy something, you take control & responsibility of it..
Nice. The only 'solution' that article provides is for you to give up your driver to someone else. Excellent idea. Sounds really 'free' to me.
.Net world rather nicely, and you don't even need to worry about some developer that can't bother to read the documentation to figure out which interface is obsolete. (Which is apparently a very big problem in the linux driver development).
Of course this is handled in the
Personally if I were ATI (or NVidia), I'd simply abandon support for Linux completely, since it seems as the changes in Linux are there to intentially hinder a company that doesn't have a 'compatible' mindset. Hmm, I wonder where I've heard that complain before..
I dunno, maybe because AMD bought ATI?
Ya, because building software against a stable API is SOO boring! We don't care about getting things done, its how fast we can change it!
Well maybe they would be happy to do that as long as every ATI linux user agrees not to bother them when things don't work right or perform well.
I can't find the article at the moment, but it seems there was a way to do it, using rainbow tables or some such thing. So yes, brute force, but still pretty doable.
It doesn't sound like it. Those IDEs automate a great deal of mundane crap, which allows me to focus on what I actually need to do; build business applications.
I can't speak for the other IDEs, but there's no 'secret rituals' that VS performs for you; it simply performs tasks using a few keystrokes that would otherwise require much more effort on my part. You may prefer using a text editor and typing a compile command manually, but I think most of us want to finish our project quicker.
Funny, because when I was using express, I didn't see any add-in options available. So they obviously did something. They may not have removed the functionality, but instead set a flag to disable it. Since Jamie himself mentions modifying the registry (something you DON'T need to do when installing an add-in), I suspect it was to enabled the functionality MS disabled.
Well, that is certainly good news. I plan to move to the next VS when it arrives.
As far as Jamie goes, I suspect he had to do something out of the ordinary to get add-ins to work with VS Express. I would imagine the version of VS he uses has this clause as well, and I don't think it would be a stretch to say he wasn't allowed to use his copy of VS to reverse engineer another version of it..
I think MS is in the right on this one; one good way to sell products is to have different features. Imagine what would happen if you had to physically rip code out of a product to get the less featured model. It would only make build such software more difficult. As a developer, I think this is a right we have (to make different editions of software) and I would hate to lose that ability because someone comes along with some cute hacks to make enable all the bells and whistles..