Well, not really before Word, but before Word took over: I'm still using Ami Pro on my new XPpro notebook, while searching for a good replacement.
Word has actually destroyed word processing. By trying to make it easy for people who had no clue about computers, they kept adding features to a typewriter, until it became the monstruosity it is now and which everybody hates (but endures).
Replacing a typewriter with a word processor was what actually made me buy my first computer (around 1985). And then I started programming my own word processor because I hated was was available (among others: Word for DOS). I actually even used my own word processor for a few years, until I found Ami Pro.
But secretaries didn't want to spend 2 hours understanding style sheets, and the boss wanted to see them keeping typing. Eventually, Word took over with it's glorified typewriter-with-everythin-even-the-kitchen-sink. (People actually write emails and edit pictures in Word! I try to avoid such people, but...)
Over 10 years later, style sheets are finally becoming more or less usable in current word processors, but I still have not found a replacement as simple, straightforward and intuitive as Ami Pro (which invented the icon toolbar, as far as I know!). I tried a few times making a Word or OpenOffice template to replace my Ami Pro, but eventually the invoice or the report or whatever had to be printed and sent out now, and I just end up doing it in Ami Pro.
Have to re-try AbiWord (was terible a couple of years ago), and have a look at Lyx. And keep an eye on OOo to see if it finally stops mimicking Word....
Well, this became a boring ramble. Too bad I have neither the talent to write the tribute to Ami Pro which it would deserve, nor the time to do a serious review of current word processors, nor the money to sponsor development...
On older machines, I use Opera (try versions 4, 5 or 6, not the latest v. 7).
But Windows 3.11? Maybe you are just asking too much from that system. Wouldn't that hardware be able to run W95? I have an old 486 sx-25 notebook with 8MB RAM, on which W95 takes ages to start, but then runs reliably. (of course I did NOT install MSIE on it!)
How about a rewrite which specifies "charset=UTF-8" and, as an aside, actually permits posters to use it? Now that would be worth doing.
It would certainly be time to accept accented characters. But whether it should be UTF-8 or Latin-1 is debatable:
Many browsers/systems don't accept UTF-8 yet, but all seem to accept Latin-1 (iso-8859-1).
Are the additional characters of the UTF-8 set really needed?
The choice would seem to be:
- allow all characters, but a significant minority will get (readable but ugly) garbage in place of special characters
or
- allow Latin-1, which everybody will see correctly, but which excludes display of all Asian and Cyrillic languages, as well as Greek and some characters for a few other Latin-based languages.
(For those of you who may not know: Latin-1 covers at least Spanish, Portuguese, French, German, Italian. It may also cover Scandinavian languages?)
Whatever the choice made, it would be better than the current 7-bit stupidity.
I hope the new version finally is 8-bit clean. This is the 21st century!! Why would we still have to suffer limits imposed by narrow-minded Anglo-saxon-centric engineers who decided last century that 7 bits were enough?
But before starting a rant, maybe I should check that new version out?
The 52 listings at Spamhouse tells enough about the hat colour of this company
According to the blackholes.us data you suggest, interbusiness.it potentially covers 27 million IP addresses.
I have no idea of the anti-spam policy of Telecom Italia. Maybe they are assholes, or incomptent, but then again, maybe they are not. I guess you don't have more of a clue than I do.
Anyway, deciding to block most of an entire country because of 52 spammers is clearly silly.
I'm glad I can use carefully supervised lists like those from spamhaus.org and don't have to follow stupid advice from some ignorant on./:-)
My advice: block or drop everything from interbusiness.it!
My advice: don't block stupidly.
interbusiness.it is a big italian ISP. Blocking it entirely is asking for a potentially very high rate of false positives. Personally, I stick with the spamhaus.org list (and a few other lists), and see many legitimate emails coming in from other interbusiness.it hosts.
Is there actually anybody who can tell us how it really is? Can we type
psql -c "select * from people where fn='Jose'"
or
grep -i theatre *.txt
in a console or in a telnet/ssh session?
If you are using Windows telnet, you can enter non-ASCII characters as normal
In my experience so far, telnet/ssh sessions were even more of a problem than the plain console, since they depend not only on the console settings but also on the local telnet program.
And what about telnet/ssh from one Linux box to another?
As an aside, you'd be wise to switch from telnet to ssh though
Yes, I use both (PuTTY when on Windows).
Anyway if someone has concrete info, it would be nice to hear. Otherwise, I guess I will just give it a try when I have time to kill.
PS: AAArghh!!!!!!! And in Slahdot, we also have the problem!! The accents in my example get lost once I hit Preview!! HTML Entities don't work either. Now I have to find where to post a bug report...
("Jose" and "Theatre" were supposed to be spelled correctly, with accents. But/. thinks it knows better. They must have been using MS Word too much!!)
PS2: Remember the time when we had no computers? Around 20 years ago? When we were reading books and meeting friends instead of spending all our time making the technology work, so machines could do boring jobs and the people doing boring jobs could start enjoying unemployment? But that's way off-topic of course...:-)
Of course, commands don't need accents, but everything else does (even command's arguments).
A few examples:
- querying/updating a database (with psql) - editing text with some text editor - managing files with accents in their names - displaying stuff on a monitor (I have a console showing who is calling me on the phone, with the address) - displaying quotes etc.
Maybe I'm weird, but I like CLI's. My WXP desktop usually has 1 or 2 Windows consoles and 1 or 2 telnet sessions to Linux servers open. But it sounds like telnetting into Fedora will be useless. One has to open an xterm in it's GUI to be able to use accents?
Slashdot Mirror
So a German mapping decides [...] to have some accented characters and a DM sign? No problem.
:-)
Except the DM disappeared a few years ago. If you never get out, maybe you should at least watch some TV?
http://www.xn--rksmrgs-5wao1o.se/ will work if you are using a recend Mozilla
... : NO
Thanks for the example. Let's do a few quick tests.
The encoded version always works, and leads to a page where you have an unencoded link (normal spelling with the accents).
Copied the unencoded version, and tried:
On WinXP:
- Mozilla 1.4 : OK
- MSIE 6, Opera 6.2 : NO
On Linux - Red Hat 6.2 (of course, that's a pretty old system):
- lynx, ping, host, dig,
(cannot test Mozilla, since this server has no GUI.)
Well, I guess we'll have to live with that horrible Punycode.
I guess the pun(s) was(were) intended by the author of the coding? Will have to Google around a bit...
Every time you give the third a voice in how things are run, you end up with chaos- take just about any UN action as an example.
You mean chaos examples like
- East Timor becoming a free country with the help of the UN?
- Kosovo administered by the UN?
- Cambodia's free elections organized by the UN?
or do you mean chaos like
- Irak after US invasion?
- Afghanistan, where the US supported the craziest fundamentalists?
Look at the word processors before Word [...]
...
Well, not really before Word, but before Word took over: I'm still using Ami Pro on my new XPpro notebook, while searching for a good replacement.
Word has actually destroyed word processing. By trying to make it easy for people who had no clue about computers, they kept adding features to a typewriter, until it became the monstruosity it is now and which everybody hates (but endures).
Replacing a typewriter with a word processor was what actually made me buy my first computer (around 1985). And then I started programming my own word processor because I hated was was available (among others: Word for DOS). I actually even used my own word processor for a few years, until I found Ami Pro.
But secretaries didn't want to spend 2 hours understanding style sheets, and the boss wanted to see them keeping typing. Eventually, Word took over with it's glorified typewriter-with-everythin-even-the-kitchen-sink. (People actually write emails and edit pictures in Word! I try to avoid such people, but...)
Over 10 years later, style sheets are finally becoming more or less usable in current word processors, but I still have not found a replacement as simple, straightforward and intuitive as Ami Pro (which invented the icon toolbar, as far as I know!). I tried a few times making a Word or OpenOffice template to replace my Ami Pro, but eventually the invoice or the report or whatever had to be printed and sent out now, and I just end up doing it in Ami Pro.
Have to re-try AbiWord (was terible a couple of years ago), and have a look at Lyx. And keep an eye on OOo to see if it finally stops mimicking Word.
Well, this became a boring ramble. Too bad I have neither the talent to write the tribute to Ami Pro which it would deserve, nor the time to do a serious review of current word processors, nor the money to sponsor development...
NS is just far too buggy.
On older machines, I use Opera (try versions 4, 5 or 6, not the latest v. 7).
But Windows 3.11? Maybe you are just asking too much from that system. Wouldn't that hardware be able to run W95? I have an old 486 sx-25 notebook with 8MB RAM, on which W95 takes ages to start, but then runs reliably. (of course I did NOT install MSIE on it!)
How about a rewrite which specifies "charset=UTF-8" and, as an aside, actually permits posters to use it? Now that would be worth doing.
It would certainly be time to accept accented characters. But whether it should be UTF-8 or Latin-1 is debatable:
Many browsers/systems don't accept UTF-8 yet, but all seem to accept Latin-1 (iso-8859-1).
Are the additional characters of the UTF-8 set really needed?
The choice would seem to be:
- allow all characters, but a significant minority will get (readable but ugly) garbage in place of special characters
or
- allow Latin-1, which everybody will see correctly, but which excludes display of all Asian and Cyrillic languages, as well as Greek and some characters for a few other Latin-based languages.
(For those of you who may not know: Latin-1 covers at least Spanish, Portuguese, French, German, Italian. It may also cover Scandinavian languages?)
Whatever the choice made, it would be better than the current 7-bit stupidity.
Content-Type: text/html; charset=iso-8859-1
Well so why doesn't it accept them??
I hope the new version finally is 8-bit clean. This is the 21st century!! Why would we still have to suffer limits imposed by narrow-minded Anglo-saxon-centric engineers who decided last century that 7 bits were enough?
But before starting a rant, maybe I should check that new version out?
The 52 listings at Spamhouse tells enough about the hat colour of this company
./ :-)
According to the blackholes.us data you suggest, interbusiness.it potentially covers 27 million IP addresses.
I have no idea of the anti-spam policy of Telecom Italia. Maybe they are assholes, or incomptent, but then again, maybe they are not. I guess you don't have more of a clue than I do.
Anyway, deciding to block most of an entire country because of 52 spammers is clearly silly.
I'm glad I can use carefully supervised lists like those from spamhaus.org and don't have to follow stupid advice from some ignorant on
My advice: block or drop everything from interbusiness.it!
My advice: don't block stupidly.
interbusiness.it is a big italian ISP. Blocking it entirely is asking for a potentially very high rate of false positives. Personally, I stick with the spamhaus.org list (and a few other lists), and see many legitimate emails coming in from other interbusiness.it hosts.
the US signed literally hundreds of treaties with native american nations. And broke every single treaty. Every one. Since then,
Since then they learned good manners, and to not have to break a treaty, which would be rude, they don't sign it.
And what about telnet/ssh from one Linux box to another?
As an aside, you'd be wise to switch from telnet to ssh though
Yes, I use both (PuTTY when on Windows).
Anyway if someone has concrete info, it would be nice to hear. Otherwise, I guess I will just give it a try when I have time to kill.
PS: AAArghh!!!!!!! And in Slahdot, we also have the problem!! The accents in my example get lost once I hit Preview!! HTML Entities don't work either. Now I have to find where to post a bug report...
("Jose" and "Theatre" were supposed to be spelled correctly, with accents. But
PS2: Remember the time when we had no computers? Around 20 years ago? When we were reading books and meeting friends instead of spending all our time making the technology work, so machines could do boring jobs and the people doing boring jobs could start enjoying unemployment? But that's way off-topic of course...
Of course, commands don't need accents, but everything else does (even command's arguments).
A few examples:
- querying/updating a database (with psql)
- editing text with some text editor
- managing files with accents in their names
- displaying stuff on a monitor (I have a console showing who is calling me on the phone, with the address)
- displaying quotes
etc.
Maybe I'm weird, but I like CLI's. My WXP desktop usually has 1 or 2 Windows consoles and 1 or 2 telnet sessions to Linux servers open. But it sounds like telnetting into Fedora will be useless. One has to open an xterm in it's GUI to be able to use accents?
Hidden in the release notes:
- The input of non-ASCII characters from the system console is not possible; only graphical applications support the input of these characters.
If I understand this correctly it means a jump back of several years with the inability to write accented letters in the console.
In other words: useless crap in which you cannot even write 3 words in a row (except in English of course)
Can that be true?