Although not from the USA, I'd appreciate an explanation of that broad comment. It does not hurt the freedom of speach as far as I know, so what is the ground for deeming it unconstitutional?
Trust me, it can be very incompetant sometimes. Then again, EVERY army can be. For example, up until lately, most casualties in the recent Iraq conflict have been from "friendly fire" and accidents (until the terrorist attack began to escalate in the past few weeks).
Your other remark I cannot agree with. If it _was_ an accident, and if it was proven so, why is there a need to cover it up? On the contrary, from what I read, Israel apologised and paid some $13 million dollars compensation for the families of the deceased.
Also , from that point of view, if people continue to raise that issue again and again and again ignoring previous court rulings and inquiry commitees and crying bloody conspiracy, at one point or another one starts to assume there is some kind of prejudice going on.
When you make the assumption of innocense, these accusations suddenly seem moot.
Weapons to slaughter civillians and bombs that blow up busses can equally well be used against military targets. The fact that they do not is a matter of choice for creating terror in civillian population. And the choice to slaughter babies instead of armed soldiers is a hideous one and can't be disguised as "we had no targets left".
Having no valid arguments and trying to hide this by a meaningless sentence such as "civillians are playing the game" is just proof of the writer. There is not game here. There is murder. The civillians should be put out of the war.
Finally, the attacks against civillians are not restricted to the "occupied" (from whom?) territories, but are spread throughout the sovereign state of Israel, not just "the people who settle".
And even if you assume some the choices of the people are intended to continue the war (definitely a superficial and uninformed opinion showing no knowledge of Israeli politics and public opinions), this is not a choice to be murdered by the masses when riding a bus or sitting in a coffee house. You are trying to blame the victim, while the responsibility lies on those who actively and passively encourage and arrange for suicides bombers to go inside un-occupied terrories and butcher men, women, children, babies of all ages, political opinions, and religions.
I believe you should re-evaluate your moral stance in the issue, since currently it seems as though you are supporting mass murder of innocent civillians. That can never be excused.
You just opened Pandor'a box, but let's play the game...
The claims of the survivors that the hit was deliberate have had a lot of influence (to the extent of being included in some prestigous history books.
However, there is ample evidence that this was a tragic "friendly fire" accident. A superficial search throughout google can point you at some several sites discussing the event with supporting evidence. Assuming the material in the sites is accurate, the most impressive of which seems to be a recording of two Israeli pilots looking for survivors, who are referring to the ship as Egptian and are surprised to find an American flag. The recording (one site quotes) were made by an American spy plane hovering over the site, and ultimately released by the NSA in accordance with the Freedom of Information act.
Link:
http://pnews.org/art/3ussliberty.shtml
Moreover I have in my personal collection an article dating some 4-5 years ago in which an Israeli military analyst , Dr. Michael Oren, recites an extensive research he has done on the subject , to the point where he bleieved he unravleed the chain of incompetence and error which led to that outcome.
Dr. Oren's articles are stated at this address:
http://www.shalem.org.il/oren/links.htm
The research was apparently published at the New Republic. Not being a subscriber I can only point you to the link
http://www.thenewrepublic.com/072301/oren072301.ht ml
If you are a subscriber you are welcome to review the information yourself, as well as check out the quoted judicial ruling and NSA recording mentioned in the first link.
Slashdot Mirror
Although not from the USA, I'd appreciate an explanation of that broad comment. It does not hurt the freedom of speach as far as I know, so what is the ground for deeming it unconstitutional?
- Assaf
Trust me, it can be very incompetant sometimes. Then again, EVERY army can be. For example, up until lately, most casualties in the recent Iraq conflict have been from "friendly fire" and accidents (until the terrorist attack began to escalate in the past few weeks).
Your other remark I cannot agree with. If it _was_ an accident, and if it was proven so, why is there a need to cover it up? On the contrary, from what I read, Israel apologised and paid some $13 million dollars compensation for the families of the deceased.
Also , from that point of view, if people continue to raise that issue again and again and again ignoring previous court rulings and inquiry commitees and crying bloody conspiracy, at one point or another one starts to assume there is some kind of prejudice going on.
When you make the assumption of innocense, these accusations suddenly seem moot.
- Assaf
In the logical, factual, and moral sense.
Weapons to slaughter civillians and bombs that blow up busses can equally well be used against military targets. The fact that they do not is a matter of choice for creating terror in civillian population. And the choice to slaughter babies instead of armed soldiers is a hideous one and can't be disguised as "we had no targets left".
Having no valid arguments and trying to hide this by a meaningless sentence such as "civillians are playing the game" is just proof of the writer. There is not game here. There is murder. The civillians should be put out of the war.
Finally, the attacks against civillians are not restricted to the "occupied" (from whom?) territories, but are spread throughout the sovereign state of Israel, not just "the people who settle".
And even if you assume some the choices of the people are intended to continue the war (definitely a superficial and uninformed opinion showing no knowledge of Israeli politics and public opinions), this is not a choice to be murdered by the masses when riding a bus or sitting in a coffee house. You are trying to blame the victim, while the responsibility lies on those who actively and passively encourage and arrange for suicides bombers to go inside un-occupied terrories and butcher men, women, children, babies of all ages, political opinions, and religions.
I believe you should re-evaluate your moral stance in the issue, since currently it seems as though you are supporting mass murder of innocent civillians. That can never be excused.
- Assaf
You just opened Pandor'a box, but let's play the game...
t ml
The claims of the survivors that the hit was deliberate have had a lot of influence (to the extent of being included in some prestigous history books.
However, there is ample evidence that this was a tragic "friendly fire" accident. A superficial search throughout google can point you at some several sites discussing the event with supporting evidence. Assuming the material in the sites is accurate, the most impressive of which seems to be a recording of two Israeli pilots looking for survivors, who are referring to the ship as Egptian and are surprised to find an American flag. The recording (one site quotes) were made by an American spy plane hovering over the site, and ultimately released by the NSA in accordance with the Freedom of Information act.
Link:
http://pnews.org/art/3ussliberty.shtml
Moreover I have in my personal collection an article dating some 4-5 years ago in which an Israeli military analyst , Dr. Michael Oren, recites an extensive research he has done on the subject , to the point where he bleieved he unravleed the chain of incompetence and error which led to that outcome.
Dr. Oren's articles are stated at this address:
http://www.shalem.org.il/oren/links.htm
The research was apparently published at the New Republic. Not being a subscriber I can only point you to the link
http://www.thenewrepublic.com/072301/oren072301.h
If you are a subscriber you are welcome to review the information yourself, as well as check out the quoted judicial ruling and NSA recording mentioned in the first link.
Regards,
- Assaf Razon