Personally, I wouldn't go the IVF route. I've a fair amount of evidence suggesting that I may not be able to make babies the normal way. When I finally decide to settle and raise some geeklets of my own, if I turn out to be right, I'll just adopt. As has been said before, there are plenty of unwanted humans from which to choose.
For as long as I can recall I've wanted to do both, have my own children as well as adopt. I'd like to have one boy and one girl and adopt one of each. Unfortunately I no longer have the patience I used to because of an injury and I sometimes get angry easily. So I'd rather not have children than to have them but get abusive, physically or verbally, or negligent.
Is there any work ongoing to determine if the human race may be splitting into divergent species?
We're in the opposite circumstances. Speciation, which is what it is when one species splits into 2 or more, usually requires isolation. There are very few isolated pockets of humans, most anyone can be half way around the world within a day, week at most. A person of one race can mate with members of many other races., which while I like that, can lead to loss of culture and knowledge.
I know all too many couples who have left off breeding until the female is in her 40s and therefore less likely to bring a sprog to term, in the interests of financial or lifestyle security, and who suddenly become devastated when their first attempts fail to bear fruit.
I'd rather people wait until they are financially capable of caring for children before having them. If more people had done that maybe we wouldn't have the bad economy we find ourselves in now.
If you need IVF, then you are deficient and should NOT reproduce!
Oh really? The person suffered an accident but is no longer capable of bearing children should not reproduce?
If continued long enough, humanity might find itself in the position of requiring IVF to reproduce.
The human species is going to have requirements like these in other to survive period. Without these technologies you disparage humans will not be able to reproduce in the future. That's a biology and genetics fact. Naturally, ie without technology, it takes a male and a female to reproduce. However what determines maleness is the SRY region of the Y Chromosome, and it is deteriorating. This is because it can not be repaired biologically. Every other gene, chromosome, has two copies in everybody one from the mother and one from the father. The vast majority of the tyme mothers do not carry the Y, mostly only males do, otherwise it's likely they'd be males as well. When the other chromosomes from the mother and father combine they are able to self repair most of the tyme, but because most people who have the SRY gene only have one it is not able to self-repair.
So, once the SRY gene is gone there goes human sexual reproduction.
I know the above seems harsh, but it is a risk that I have been watching with some consternation since the first "test-tube" baby was born in the 1970s. Since then there seems to be an explosion of people, who otherwise could not conceive, pushing out quadruplets, quintuplets, and more, all the while depleting the gene-pool.
Just because a few people take it too far, such as that lady in CA who's single and on welfare but had 6 or 7 babies to add to those she already had, it doesn't mean those who would be responsible parents should not have children just because of a medical condition. And exactly how are these people depleting the gene pool? If anything your plan would deplete it not by using technology so those who can't not reproduce without assistance. The more who have children the more genes there are in the pool.
Evolution is defined as natural selection of random mutations. It's surprising just how many geeks, who should be very familiar with what "random" means, will still advocate the idea of genetic selection and manipulation of offspring. I personally think it's from reading too many sci-fi novels in which "genetic manipulation" results in supermen or the like.
Yes, evolution is random but not everyone talks about randomness but instead about engineering, and that goes back decades. Though they didn't know about DNA the eugenics movement, along with the NAZIs who bastardized eugenics, was about engineering the superperson.
Once our society begins selecting and/or rejecting offspring based on their genes, or we begin manipulating our genetic codes, evolution stops.
You're making your own mistake here. As you said before in evolution there is random mutations. Those mutations can and will still happen, even after an embryo has been implanted. Mutations happen throughout life, even in old age. What do you think cancer is? It's a mutation in genes.
I'd liken genetic manipulation to interbreeding. Some people think it should be moral to marry your cousin or even sibling. They can even make a good case for why they should be entitled to do so. But if you scaled that right up to the entire populations, we'd all end up inbred, sickly and probably mentally retarded within a hundred or so years.
You're making another mistake here. Just because some may want to marry cousins or siblings, that does not mean all will. If the union of such matings leads to compromised offspring then those offsprings from parents who didn't interbreed would have genetic advantages. Heck there are some who want to and do marry a person of another "race". That's definitely not interbreeding.
Inductively scaling procreation rights up can easily lead us to a tall, trim, blue eyed, blond haired,
Except not everybody wants tall, trim, blue eyed, blonde haired offspring. Some want short, meaty, brunettes or redheads. Others don't care how their children look so long as they are healthy. I want my children to be happy and healthy not look a certain way.
It seems to me possible that if people select their offspring intentionally based on genetic information, then we will tend to have less diversity of outcomes, which will impact evolution, and will also perhaps reduce our species' survivability.
I used to think so too, but if choices made are of a cosmetic criteria then I doubt there will be less diversity. Take hair colour for instance, some want children with blonde hair while others want black headed children, brunettes, or redheads. Meanwhile some may want athletic children while others want intelligent or creative children. Quite simply not everyone wants the same things.
If the human race goes extinct, it certainly won't be because we didn't reproduce enough. So really, what's the point of fertility clinics? As in, why don't people just adopt the already-existing baby that meets whatever "criteria" they have instead of doing all of this?
Some people want their own children, genetically, and don't want to adopt. Others, such as homosexual couples, aren't allowed to adopt. There are some who do want to adopt, but they want to adopt internationally. Such as Brad Pitt and Angelina Jolie.
national id. USDOT sets the standards the state need to conform to a federal standard
I don't know if it's true that USDOT sets the standards for license plates, however they are not ID. In Florida plates can be transferred from one vehicle to another, or can be transferred to another person along with the car. In other words a plate can be assigned to two or more different cars or people, therefore it does not identify anything. I've done both, I had the plates transferred to me when I bought a car, and I've transferred one plate I had from one car to another. Which brings up another thing, some states only require one plate while other require two.
But it's apparently also not like the old days when the university provided the resources.
No, universities still provide labs and other resources but many expect students to have their own computers if not a laptop. Here's NYU Stern's requirements. Not only do they require a laptop but Office 2007 Pro Student for a Windows PC or Office 2008 for Mac Student. Now the licenses for them are only $70 or $65 for the Mac version. For Macs they also recommend VMWare Fusion at $40 and MS Windows Vista Business Full at $300. Here's Emory Goizueta Business School's requirement.
Not too long ago we had a discussion on slashdot about how a philanthropy was donating cheap laptops to schools and children in either North or South Carolina.
We already have a national ID card and everybody already has it. It's your social security card.
Social Security cards are not id cards. From the SSA:
"You need a Social Security number to get a job, collect Social Security benefits and receive some other government services. But you don't often need to show your Social Security card. Do not carry your card with you. Keep it in a safe place with your other important papers."
A terrorist is a person who engages in actions which cause a feeling of terror.
Except not all labeled as terrorists cause or seek to cause terror. The FBI defines Eco-terrorism as "the use or threatened use of violence of a criminal nature against innocent victims or property by an environmentally-oriented, subnational group for environmental-political reasons, or aimed at an audience beyond the target, often of a symbolic nature."
Then they should pass a law saying "All states will issue driving licenses in accordance with the following design..... Existing licenses will remain valid until their expiry".
Can you point where in the Constitution of the USA the federal government is granted that power?
if a bartender scans your ID and it doesn't hit in the database, you can tell it's not a legit ID,
And when forgers are able to break the system, or the DB goes down? What if someone inside sales access or data?
But I want to get to this drinking age you brought up, it's Bullshit. A person can join the military and be sent off to die in battle at 18 but can't legally drink alcohol? A parent can't serve their teens drinks and teach them how to responsibly drink? It's no wonder we have so many college students going out out binge drinking, they never learned to drink responsibly.
until they're a little more mature, 15-16 is too young
I got my first job on a payroll at 15 or 16 and I worked about 5 miles from where I lived. I didn't have one but a car would have been nice. I knew others who went further for work.
Kids and bars don't blend well.
When I turned 18 the drinking age was 18. One month later it was raised to 19. I was legally allowed to buy and drink one month before it became illegal for me to purchase alcohol. For others they were able to buy longer. After the date the age was raised all those who drank in bars no longer could, so what did they do? Many drank in their cars. Then when I was 21 I went to Germany, and there while eating in restaurants I watched as parents ordered beer or wine for their adolescent and teenage children without one eyebrow raised.
linked through a national data hub -- that would allow all states to store and cross-check such information, and a requirement that motor vehicle departments verify birth certificates with originating agencies, a bid to fight identity theft."
Only until everyone accepts them. Once people do then mission creep can set in.
In maryland we have a huge problem with illegal immigrants - there were stories of people getting driver's licenses sharing a stated address with 800 other people.
Maryland can do the same thing as Minnesota, MN doesn't give driver's licenses to those getting them when they go to the DMV. Instead the DMV gives the person a receipt then mails the actual card to the person's home. And it make sure the address is a residence not a mailbox like Mailboxes Etc.
the illegals can then pass themselves off as legal citizens anywhere in the US, abusing services without paying taxes.
They are still paying taxes, just not as much. When they buy things they pay sales tax. When they rent an apartment the owner pays property and income tax. Or, if they buy property themselves, they pay property tax directly. One of the best ideas I've heard or read about dealing with this is to allow all immigrants to legally work and make them pay income, Medicare, and Social Security taxes. This would boost taxes collected and without being able to collect Social Security will keep it solvent.
Ha, okay. More likely to blow up in your hand, and useless past about 10 feet, but I'll give you the benefit of the doubt.
Yes, in a 007 movie, "The Man with the Golden Gun" an assassin has a gun like this. The pen is the gun barrel and I believe a cigarette lighter is the body with ammo.
I have flown, I have, entirely by accident, smuggled two knives onto an airplane.
When I was in high school more than half of the boys, and some girls carried pocket knives. More than twenty years later I still carry a pocket knife everywhere, though in the past two weeks I went into government buildings and had to take the knife out of my pocket and leave in the car. All this paranoia reminds me people used to carry guns into court rooms.
But what if I had been a terrorist, fully aware of the knife?
When others can also carry their's on board it doesn't mean much. It's only when they are banned that it means anything, it means others are unarmed. Besides my knife I used to also carry a staff, I keep it in my car, but now I'm concerned that if I carry it now I'll end up with a goon squad of cops jumping on me.
Given that a driving licence is supposed to be proof of your ability to drive,
If that were true, at least 1/3 of the people in my area would be removed from the road for their inability to drive in something close to a safe or competent manner.
Unfortunately I agree, many people on the roads seem to be unsafe drivers. Reminds me of Sandra Bullock's driving in "Speed 2: Cruise Control". I think people are better when tested, once they have a license they become demons.
Slashdot Mirror
But if you require artificial assistance to procreate, chances are your descendants will as well. Why would you want to propagate those genes?
Wait until you want children but have your nuts shot off.
Falcon
Personally, I wouldn't go the IVF route. I've a fair amount of evidence suggesting that I may not be able to make babies the normal way. When I finally decide to settle and raise some geeklets of my own, if I turn out to be right, I'll just adopt. As has been said before, there are plenty of unwanted humans from which to choose.
For as long as I can recall I've wanted to do both, have my own children as well as adopt. I'd like to have one boy and one girl and adopt one of each. Unfortunately I no longer have the patience I used to because of an injury and I sometimes get angry easily. So I'd rather not have children than to have them but get abusive, physically or verbally, or negligent.
Falcon
Is there any work ongoing to determine if the human race may be splitting into divergent species?
We're in the opposite circumstances. Speciation, which is what it is when one species splits into 2 or more, usually requires isolation. There are very few isolated pockets of humans, most anyone can be half way around the world within a day, week at most. A person of one race can mate with members of many other races., which while I like that, can lead to loss of culture and knowledge.
Falcon
During their lives those ovum are bombarded by radiation and just plain get old.
Those ovum can also be harvested and stored.
Boys are different. We just make what we need, over and over and over and over.
Yes, males do reproduce sperm throughout their lives., but like female eggs those sperm suffers from damages in old age. "More DNA Damage to Older Men's Sperm". There are more articles like that, sperms damage "old age" health OR medicine.
Falcon
I know all too many couples who have left off breeding until the female is in her 40s and therefore less likely to bring a sprog to term, in the interests of financial or lifestyle security, and who suddenly become devastated when their first attempts fail to bear fruit.
I'd rather people wait until they are financially capable of caring for children before having them. If more people had done that maybe we wouldn't have the bad economy we find ourselves in now.
Falcon
If you need IVF, then you are deficient and should NOT reproduce!
Oh really? The person suffered an accident but is no longer capable of bearing children should not reproduce?
If continued long enough, humanity might find itself in the position of requiring IVF to reproduce.
The human species is going to have requirements like these in other to survive period. Without these technologies you disparage humans will not be able to reproduce in the future. That's a biology and genetics fact. Naturally, ie without technology, it takes a male and a female to reproduce. However what determines maleness is the SRY region of the Y Chromosome, and it is deteriorating. This is because it can not be repaired biologically. Every other gene, chromosome, has two copies in everybody one from the mother and one from the father. The vast majority of the tyme mothers do not carry the Y, mostly only males do, otherwise it's likely they'd be males as well. When the other chromosomes from the mother and father combine they are able to self repair most of the tyme, but because most people who have the SRY gene only have one it is not able to self-repair.
So, once the SRY gene is gone there goes human sexual reproduction.
I know the above seems harsh, but it is a risk that I have been watching with some consternation since the first "test-tube" baby was born in the 1970s. Since then there seems to be an explosion of people, who otherwise could not conceive, pushing out quadruplets, quintuplets, and more, all the while depleting the gene-pool.
Just because a few people take it too far, such as that lady in CA who's single and on welfare but had 6 or 7 babies to add to those she already had, it doesn't mean those who would be responsible parents should not have children just because of a medical condition. And exactly how are these people depleting the gene pool? If anything your plan would deplete it not by using technology so those who can't not reproduce without assistance. The more who have children the more genes there are in the pool.
Falcon
Evolution is defined as natural selection of random mutations. It's surprising just how many geeks, who should be very familiar with what "random" means, will still advocate the idea of genetic selection and manipulation of offspring. I personally think it's from reading too many sci-fi novels in which "genetic manipulation" results in supermen or the like.
Yes, evolution is random but not everyone talks about randomness but instead about engineering, and that goes back decades. Though they didn't know about DNA the eugenics movement, along with the NAZIs who bastardized eugenics, was about engineering the superperson.
Once our society begins selecting and/or rejecting offspring based on their genes, or we begin manipulating our genetic codes, evolution stops.
You're making your own mistake here. As you said before in evolution there is random mutations. Those mutations can and will still happen, even after an embryo has been implanted. Mutations happen throughout life, even in old age. What do you think cancer is? It's a mutation in genes.
I'd liken genetic manipulation to interbreeding. Some people think it should be moral to marry your cousin or even sibling. They can even make a good case for why they should be entitled to do so. But if you scaled that right up to the entire populations, we'd all end up inbred, sickly and probably mentally retarded within a hundred or so years.
You're making another mistake here. Just because some may want to marry cousins or siblings, that does not mean all will. If the union of such matings leads to compromised offspring then those offsprings from parents who didn't interbreed would have genetic advantages. Heck there are some who want to and do marry a person of another "race". That's definitely not interbreeding.
Inductively scaling procreation rights up can easily lead us to a tall, trim, blue eyed, blond haired,
Except not everybody wants tall, trim, blue eyed, blonde haired offspring. Some want short, meaty, brunettes or redheads. Others don't care how their children look so long as they are healthy. I want my children to be happy and healthy not look a certain way.
Falcon
It seems to me possible that if people select their offspring intentionally based on genetic information, then we will tend to have less diversity of outcomes, which will impact evolution, and will also perhaps reduce our species' survivability.
I used to think so too, but if choices made are of a cosmetic criteria then I doubt there will be less diversity. Take hair colour for instance, some want children with blonde hair while others want black headed children, brunettes, or redheads. Meanwhile some may want athletic children while others want intelligent or creative children. Quite simply not everyone wants the same things.
Falcon
If the human race goes extinct, it certainly won't be because we didn't reproduce enough. So really, what's the point of fertility clinics? As in, why don't people just adopt the already-existing baby that meets whatever "criteria" they have instead of doing all of this?
Some people want their own children, genetically, and don't want to adopt. Others, such as homosexual couples, aren't allowed to adopt. There are some who do want to adopt, but they want to adopt internationally. Such as Brad Pitt and Angelina Jolie.
Falcon
national id. USDOT sets the standards the state need to conform to a federal standard
I don't know if it's true that USDOT sets the standards for license plates, however they are not ID. In Florida plates can be transferred from one vehicle to another, or can be transferred to another person along with the car. In other words a plate can be assigned to two or more different cars or people, therefore it does not identify anything. I've done both, I had the plates transferred to me when I bought a car, and I've transferred one plate I had from one car to another. Which brings up another thing, some states only require one plate while other require two.
Falcon
But it's apparently also not like the old days when the university provided the resources.
No, universities still provide labs and other resources but many expect students to have their own computers if not a laptop. Here's NYU Stern's requirements. Not only do they require a laptop but Office 2007 Pro Student for a Windows PC or Office 2008 for Mac Student. Now the licenses for them are only $70 or $65 for the Mac version. For Macs they also recommend VMWare Fusion at $40 and MS Windows Vista Business Full at $300. Here's Emory Goizueta Business School's requirement.
Not too long ago we had a discussion on slashdot about how a philanthropy was donating cheap laptops to schools and children in either North or South Carolina.
Falcon
We already have a national ID card and everybody already has it. It's your social security card.
Social Security cards are not id cards. From the SSA:
"You need a Social Security number to get a job, collect Social Security benefits and receive some other government services. But you don't often need to show your Social Security card. Do not carry your card with you. Keep it in a safe place with your other important papers."
Falcon
A terrorist is a person who engages in actions which cause a feeling of terror.
Except not all labeled as terrorists cause or seek to cause terror. The FBI defines Eco-terrorism as "the use or threatened use of violence of a criminal nature against innocent victims or property by an environmentally-oriented, subnational group for environmental-political reasons, or aimed at an audience beyond the target, often of a symbolic nature."
Falcon
Then they should pass a law saying "All states will issue driving licenses in accordance with the following design..... Existing licenses will remain valid until their expiry".
Can you point where in the Constitution of the USA the federal government is granted that power?
Falcon
I'd be curious are people here more apprehensive about the intrusive government or terrorists?
I'm much more terrified of government than I am of terrorists!!!
Falcon
if a bartender scans your ID and it doesn't hit in the database, you can tell it's not a legit ID,
And when forgers are able to break the system, or the DB goes down? What if someone inside sales access or data?
But I want to get to this drinking age you brought up, it's Bullshit. A person can join the military and be sent off to die in battle at 18 but can't legally drink alcohol? A parent can't serve their teens drinks and teach them how to responsibly drink? It's no wonder we have so many college students going out out binge drinking, they never learned to drink responsibly.
Falcon
until they're a little more mature, 15-16 is too young
I got my first job on a payroll at 15 or 16 and I worked about 5 miles from where I lived. I didn't have one but a car would have been nice. I knew others who went further for work.
Kids and bars don't blend well.
When I turned 18 the drinking age was 18. One month later it was raised to 19. I was legally allowed to buy and drink one month before it became illegal for me to purchase alcohol. For others they were able to buy longer. After the date the age was raised all those who drank in bars no longer could, so what did they do? Many drank in their cars. Then when I was 21 I went to Germany, and there while eating in restaurants I watched as parents ordered beer or wine for their adolescent and teenage children without one eyebrow raised.
linked through a national data hub -- that would allow all states to store and cross-check such information, and a requirement that motor vehicle departments verify birth certificates with originating agencies, a bid to fight identity theft."
Only until everyone accepts them. Once people do then mission creep can set in.
In maryland we have a huge problem with illegal immigrants - there were stories of people getting driver's licenses sharing a stated address with 800 other people.
Maryland can do the same thing as Minnesota, MN doesn't give driver's licenses to those getting them when they go to the DMV. Instead the DMV gives the person a receipt then mails the actual card to the person's home. And it make sure the address is a residence not a mailbox like Mailboxes Etc.
the illegals can then pass themselves off as legal citizens anywhere in the US, abusing services without paying taxes.
They are still paying taxes, just not as much. When they buy things they pay sales tax. When they rent an apartment the owner pays property and income tax. Or, if they buy property themselves, they pay property tax directly. One of the best ideas I've heard or read about dealing with this is to allow all immigrants to legally work and make them pay income, Medicare, and Social Security taxes. This would boost taxes collected and without being able to collect Social Security will keep it solvent.
Falcon
Ha, okay. More likely to blow up in your hand, and useless past about 10 feet, but I'll give you the benefit of the doubt.
Yes, in a 007 movie, "The Man with the Golden Gun" an assassin has a gun like this. The pen is the gun barrel and I believe a cigarette lighter is the body with ammo.
Falcon
A ball point pen can be turned into a small gun that can kill.
"The Man with the Golden Gun"?
Falcon
They might as well be allowed then, since it doesn't take a genius to sharpen scissors AND make them easily detach into two knives.
I've got a pair of scissors, that are sharp and strong enough to cut coins in half, that comes apart.
Falcon
Someone who knows what they are doing is quite likely to make the first couple of good Samaritan attackers bleed quite a bit.
And meanwhile the rest of the passengers beat and kick the shit out of you.
Falcon
I have flown, I have, entirely by accident, smuggled two knives onto an airplane.
When I was in high school more than half of the boys, and some girls carried pocket knives. More than twenty years later I still carry a pocket knife everywhere, though in the past two weeks I went into government buildings and had to take the knife out of my pocket and leave in the car. All this paranoia reminds me people used to carry guns into court rooms.
But what if I had been a terrorist, fully aware of the knife?
When others can also carry their's on board it doesn't mean much. It's only when they are banned that it means anything, it means others are unarmed. Besides my knife I used to also carry a staff, I keep it in my car, but now I'm concerned that if I carry it now I'll end up with a goon squad of cops jumping on me.
Falcon
I still go for pull-through spaces too, but that's more because I'm lazy.
I pull through as well, but will back into a space if there aren't any I can pull through.
I do the same, pull straight through or back into a parking space when parking. It seem so natural to me.
Falcon
Given that a driving licence is supposed to be proof of your ability to drive,
If that were true, at least 1/3 of the people in my area would be removed from the road for their inability to drive in something close to a safe or competent manner.
Unfortunately I agree, many people on the roads seem to be unsafe drivers. Reminds me of Sandra Bullock's driving in "Speed 2: Cruise Control". I think people are better when tested, once they have a license they become demons.
Falcon