This sounds similar to what I want to do. I wrote about it a few months ago here
I'd like to do something like this myself and haves said I want to use a BSD license, which allows the code to be closed. In my case though I was thinking of releasing the code after one or two years.
The problem with free (gratis) is that it doesn't pay the bills for the developer.
I manage to pay my bills -- which in Boston are not inconsiderable -- by writing Free Software.
Your business or employer sales service and or support then and it's that what pays the bills. I want to break into photography, which during this recession isn't a good idea, however I can't afford to buy all the software I'd need. So I've been thinking about starting with open source software but coding it so it will do what I want or need. To make it worth while if I have to spend a lot of tyme programming then I want to be able to sell it to other photographers. Now if I use the GPL I wouldn't be able to stop others from taking the software and giving it away, the only way I'd be able to make money is by selling support. However remember I said I wanted to go into photography not software. If however I use a BSD license I could prevent others from giving it away legally.
The term "commercial" has no meaning when it pertains open source. Selling support on top of open source or closed source makes very little different. Most companies would claim that they are commercial.
If a business sales software it's commercial, whether it's code is propriety or FOOS.
Ah, you read Jerry Pournelle? His "Chaos Manor" in "Byte Magazine" was one of my favorite columns in the print edition. My other one was Steve Ciarcia's "Circuit Cellar", which now an independent magazine.
newspapers don't write stories, unless you count the captions underneath pictures of kids, "human interest" stories about kittens rescued from trees, and complimentary (paid) copy about new business "grand openings" etc.
Yes they do, or did. Years ago a friend was a sports writer for the local paper. She liked that she got tickets to see games. She watched the games then wrote an article about it.
The real "stories" all come from yesterday's AP or Reuters news feed.
That's the problem with newspapers today, you have to wait for them. Now if Amazon's Kindle were to offer subscriptions with breaking news to newspapers then that may be a viable business model. I heard some newspapers are trying it out.
That's Just Plain Stupid. Microsoft DOES control what hardware their software runs on.
No they don't. I can go into a store or order from online stores any parts I want and assemble my own PC. MS does not control me. I can even install Linux on it.
Have you forgotten the Microsoft Vista Capable campaign (and lawsuit) so soon?
While I didn't think of it MS does not control component makers. They may share data with them, for instance so MS can include drivers but MS does not control them.
and it would be bad for business if we allowed customers to buy, burn, then return every DVD in the store.
I know it's easy to make copies of DVDs but people should be able to get a refund. I've got maybe a dozen disks that are bad and have had to exchange the media for one movie more than once. I've never had as many problems with VHS tapes, I've only had one tape eaten by the player and no problems otherwise, as I have had with DVD disks. And I've bought more tapes than DVDs.
I've always felt that we could remedy this by keeping track of who returns software (e.g. Driver's License info),
Some stores around my area buy used movies and music and at least one requires official ID before they will buy.
and bar certain "repeat returners" from ever returning again.
Whether it's just because I'm unlucky, jinxed, or what I don't know but I've had a bunch of problems with disks. Some have suggested it's the player, but I'm on my third one and I've tried some of the bad disks on all three. Just as there are Lemon Laws for other items they should be applicable to media as well.
Nonsense. Anyone is capable of writing their own software, just as anyone is capable of keeping and maintaining their own garden.
This is nonsense. Most people can't program even using something like Borland's Delphi or MS Visual Basic whereas there are very few who have brown thumbs or black thumbs.
My mother has zero interest in programming her own apps, just as I have zero interest in growing my own food.
I do both. I started college with a major in Computer Engineering and have been growing gardens since before I was a teen. I also have other interests. In high school I was torn between majoring in CE and Marine Bio or another marine science. I picked CE, though if I had known then what I know now I would have done a double major.
She would probably write very poor code at first, and I would probably keep a terrible garden; both of us could improve with time.
And how many have the tyme to devote to learning programming while they're already working full tyme? Sure people can improve but that doesn't mean they will be able to program a compleat and useful app. Gardening is easier.
I handed them the nice little instruction book filled with pretty pics that came with the motherboard. The only question i got was "How do you tell which screws go where?"
Smart kids.
Computers really are pretty simple to work on now, most folks would just rather pay some guy like me than DIY.
I think PCs have pretty much always been easy to assemble, the hard part being drivers, which is still a problem Linux has with some hardware.
As for MSFT owning the Netbook market, is Acer and Toshiba good enough sources?
Ok, yes it's good enough. I don't keep up with the market, I have no interest in netbooks period, and didn't know what it was like.
And you cite CnR, but CnR is now owned by Xandros and the Linux community HATES Xandros
Again I was unaware. I said CNR came installed on my Linux PC, the distro installed was Linspire and they created it. And some in the community also hate Linspire. Personally I didn't know that 'til after I got it. My Windows PC I used was crapping out on me and I couldn't afford to spend much on a new PC. While looking around I saw this PC in a store selling for $250 with a $50 mail-in rebate. So I ended up buying one. Other than when the motherboard had to be replaced, it was still under warranty, I didn't have a problem with it. Well, I did. It didn't come with enough RAM or large enough an HDD so I also got more RAM and a second larger HDD. Even with those added the price was still lower than a Windows PC.
So while you got lucky that CNR came with yours I sincerely doubt you will see many main stream distros support it in the future.
There are 9 clients for different distro, two being RedHat and Ubuntu. So while distros may not include it it can be installed.
How is taking the laptop to the bozos at Geek Squad supposed to help? WTF?
WTF? is right. When did I say anything about taking the laptops to the Geek Squad? The only tyme I mentioned them was when I said I took my NT4 PC to them so they could install the Windows update Microsoft would not let me download.
Like if food was held to health and safety standards only the rich could afford to eat?
Most anyone can grow food, the past couple of weeks I've been working on my garden, most people can not write their own programs though. By one estimate Conficker caused more than $100 Billion, with a "B", damage in one year. A FOOS project could not afford that. I doubt even MS or Oracle could.
But no worries, I hear you can buy some cheap milk* from China.
There are local farmers I can get to know I can buy milk from, though I don't I am a member of not 1 but 2 coops that buy from local businesses and farmers. My milk doesn't travel 1000 miles to get to my frig. A lot of the produce they carry don't go more than a couple of hundred miles, some farmers are even within 50 miles. Then there are a number of farmers markets I can go to as well.
However I don't expect every town to have it's own software business.
If the EU wants higher-quality software, they should support an industry-wide system for the licensing and qualification of programmers, like we have for other engineering disciplines and professions.
That's exactly what "professionals" use to limit competition. Great idea. NOT!!!
For example, they could require that all government software, or software for use in aircraft and life-critical functions.
If you look at a lot of software licenses, many exclude use of the software for life critical uses. For instance look at the Quickbrowse license, I'm using it only because it was the first result with the license when I googled "ms windows" license aircraft OR "life critical" OR "life-critical". It says "THE QUICKBROWSE SOFTWARE IS NOT DESIGNED, INTENDED OR LICENSED FOR USE IN HAZARDOUS ENVIRONMENTS REQUIRING FAIL-SAFE CONTROLS, INCLUDING WITHOUT LIMITATION, THE DESIGN, CONSTRUCTION, MAINTENANCE OR OPERATION OF NUCLEAR FACILITIES, AIRCRAFT NAVIGATION OR COMMUNICATION".
I am tired of these implicit assumptions that FOSS is better than proprietary/closed source.
And what of the implicit, and explicit, assumptions and assertions, that closed source is better than open source? Why not judge software on it's merits? I like GIMP, it's great for most of what people want to do with it. But it's not a drop-in replacement for Photoshop. I like OS X, I'm typing this on a MacBook Pro running Leopard, but I also like Linux. And am thinking of installing Ubuntu on it to make it dualboot.
Now, many are paid by businesses to develop the software which the business then sells or services. If those businesses are held liable for more than just the cost of the software or service then those companies may not stay in business long. Microsoft wouldn't be able to pay everyone for damages, even if they have a lot of money in the bank. One estimate one TFA has is Conflicter caused more than $150 Billion in damage in one year alone. Never mind MS, FOOS projects could not handle that type of liability.
Herein lies Apple's advantage over Microsoft. Apple creates it's software to run on the hardware it also creates. They are able to make sure it "just works". MS on the other hand can not control what hardware their software will run on.
They could, all that's stopping them is the fact that they would have to give up some of their market share to Linux, or step up their support of older OS+hardware combinations.
Microsoft can't control what hardware people install Windows on, unless during installation it checked to make sure the hardware was authorized. People are already having trouble with XP's and Vista's Activation even after adding or swapping hardware, they'd go ballistic if Windows told them it did not work with their hardware because it wasn't authorized. Supporting more hardware would lead to testing for all the possible hardware combinations which would lead to higher costs.
Don't get me wrong, I'm not an MS fanbios. If you check my previous posts about MS I don't like it but I don't blame them for everything either.
This is one of the saner comments I've read. Unfortunately, while you can return the TV or computer even if it's not in the box most stores do not accept returned software if it's been opened. I say most, because while I've never been to or heard of one doing it there might be some who do. Heck, stores around here won't even give a refund for DVD movies that have been opened. The best I've been able to do is to get a store to do an exchange, exchange the media for another one of the same movie. And I once had to return and exchange the same movie twice because the disks wouldn't play.
My initial post was on the topic of selling software, not giving it away, and certainly not the development of new software.
How is a FOOS developer putting food on the table if the software they develop is not sold? That I can think of now, the only way is if someone sells service and support? That itself is a liability though.
You said you would feel no moral responsibility for damage caused by your code. I don't disagree if that code never moves past beta. But once you put it out there as available to 'end users', I think you have some duty to make sure it is usable for what it purports.
Herein lies Apple's advantage over Microsoft. Apple creates it's software to run on the hardware it also creates. They are able to make sure it "just works". MS on the other hand can not control what hardware their software will run on.
If someone sells GPL based software, they are free to do so and pick up the tab on flaws in the product. Same goes for proprietary software.
I don't think you thought this through. If software developers are held liable, especially for FOOS, then only the wealthy could afford to buy software. It would cost too much for open source projects to buy insurance. And commercial software, if it existed, would cost too much as well.
software liability? Do you think introducing liability for software would be a great way to force Microsoft to pay for all the damage its software has caused, and to start writing some really secure code, or would it lead to terrible problems for those producing free software, and stunt the uptake of open source? Would the European Commission's proposal be a blessing or a blight?
It could be both good and bad. If commercial vendors like Microsoft are help liable then their products may get better. Or it could kill MS. If FOOS had to meet the same liability I don't see how it could survive. I'm hesitant but I may say commercial vendors should be liable but not FOOS.
Learning to share is a valuable lesson. In fact it's one of the first things you learn in engineering school, albeit it's called "team learning", because in the real world there's never enough resources for everybody.
I agree team work is good but my teacher didn't have us work in teams. He had us do most of our work with pen, er pencil, and paper. After a while he set it up so we could use the dumb terminals in the library so we could try our programs outside of class. The problem with this though was that in class we used cassette tapes to store our programs and there was no way we could save what we were doing on the terminals. When we used them we had to write stuff down, or ask a librarian if we could print something out, and they didn't always let us.
Look at the Netbook market. It was practically built for Linux, with its low CPU and memory resources, and yet MSFT is now totally dominating that market.
MS is? Do you have a source?
Why? Because it all comes down to the apps and ease of use. And I know the Linux fanboys will hate me for daring to say this, but Linux ain't easy.
The degree of ease of use really depends. And if all that was all then some would say Apple would dominate. If all you've ever used was Windows then using the same version will be easiest for most, but even switching from one version to another can entail retraining. Different people find different things easy. I've owned and used Linux and Windows PCs, under my desk I have two towers one with Windows NT4 and one with Linux preinstalled, well 3 really. The third has WinME but it's dead. And Macs, I'm typing this on my MacBook Pro. Linux can be such as easy as Windows or OS X. Actually the first tyme I booted up my Linux PC after I set up a user account, it asked me to set an admin then a user account, the desktop looked almost the same as a Windows desktop. It automatically detected and configured my cable access, as it did when I plugged in my external hdds. I did not have to do any configurations. And when it detected my connection it asked if I wanted to check to see if any updates were available.
And with CNR, Click N Run, it's hard to beat installing software whether productively, net, or games. Once the CNR client is installed, my Linux PC came with it installed, all you have to do is browse, look through, or search the software. And when you find one you want click the "install" button for free software, or there is paid for software you click the "Buy/install" button to get. The computer downloads and installs the software for you.
Now in this case, if the hardware is designed for Linux out of the box? Yeah it could be easy. But will it be easy to the PHB that is in charge of approving the laptops?
Notice in my post I said TFA does not say what OS is installed. As for the PHB, what PHB is in charge? This is a philanthropic organization that's providing the laptops not the government.
And is MSFT throwing in some money or hardware to ensure the correct answer is Windows?
Yea, I'd expect MS to do that.
What I do know is most education software is written for Windows, simply because it is the biggest market and you go where the money is.
This does bring up an interesting point. However as you said earlier TFA's "a hell of a lot of hot air with precious few details." They don't say what uses they will be put to. If it's so students can write papers Linux should do fine. As it would for the internet. However if they want to use educational software that teaches then they'll need Windows unless they can get others to provide programs for Linux.
most older folks are of the mindset that "computers=Windows" and it is the older folks in charge in SC that will be making the call.
Gosh, I must be ancient. The first computers I ever used were Trash, er TRS-80s, Apple II and a dumb terminal connected to an IBM System/360. In other words I recall a tyme before MS Windows was even dreamed of. And, we don't know who is in charge.
But if these machines are actually supposed to be run by the kids
I really don't see the advantage of having kids lug around laptops between home and school. Back when I was in school, computer labs were adequate and would be easier to maintain.
I don't see the need for laptops or any computer in schools period.
Currently, it would be better to have laptops assigned to the classrooms and not to the students. The students should be using a flash drive for their personal files instead.
That assumes kids have a computer at home, but many don't.
In any scenario, using a Windows OS means dealing with malware concerns.
TFA does not say what OS is used, it may be Linux not Windows.
I certainly believe computers are invaluable and it's good to expose children to them early on. But students don't need their own laptops. What they need are good, current text books. A class with a focus on computers makes far more sense, or perhaps a couple of computers in each classroom for children to share.
I believe that depends on where and how it is used. An organization in Africa setup a satellite dish with which e-textbooks could be easily updated. Printed books were just too expensive. Students were able to take the laptops home and do their reading, homework, assignments. Power, just pull on a cord to recharge the laptop.
Then there's the fact that most of these laptops wont survive the school year. College kids do a good job of trashing their machines it will only be worse with children.
One emphasis was on toughness. They were planned for use in the Third World.
Those that can utilize this boon without assistance from teachers or staff will excel, those that are less intelligent or less inclined deserver what they're capable of too.
I agree this can be an opportunity to kids. However different people have different learning styles. Some can learn by reading a book, some learn by doing, and some need someone to help them.
How about all of the volume licensing agreements? Agreements for OSes, anti-virus clients, patch management systems, etc. are all done by volume. Who is going to pay for the additional licenses for these systems?
I agree spending money on infrastructure, fixing leaking roofs say, may be money better spent. However TFA does not say what OS will be used. If it's Linux then AV isn't needed. Patch management can be handled by having one server at the school where patches can be downloaded.
Maintenance? Is the grant going to give us enough spare laptops to cover for children while they're laptops are down for repair, students who forget laptops, etc? What about the increased workload of an already-thing IT department covering the additional laptops that will, in all likelihood, break more often?
Perhaps high school students can be trained to repair broken laptops. Some months ago I read an article on how some students were doing this.
And as for the Linux? I'm a FOSS advocate, run nix at home, etc. But you have to realize that *most* school/district IT departments are staffed by folks who were the most technologically proficient users at the time the equipment was installed, e.g. the librarian who knew how to install MS Office got promoted to be the head of the district IT department. Sorry, but supporting (or even running) Linux for a lot of these folks is over their heads.
As above, perhaps students can be trained to work with Linux. I don't but if I did have the skills I'd try to do this myself. I don't work so it'd give me something constructive to do as well as give me experience I could then use to try to find some work. Related, I's like to find a nonprofit I could help with their websites.
Slashdot Mirror
This sounds similar to what I want to do. I wrote about it a few months ago here
I'd like to do something like this myself and haves said I want to use a BSD license, which allows the code to be closed. In my case though I was thinking of releasing the code after one or two years.
Falcon
The problem with free (gratis) is that it doesn't pay the bills for the developer.
I manage to pay my bills -- which in Boston are not inconsiderable -- by writing Free Software.
Your business or employer sales service and or support then and it's that what pays the bills. I want to break into photography, which during this recession isn't a good idea, however I can't afford to buy all the software I'd need. So I've been thinking about starting with open source software but coding it so it will do what I want or need. To make it worth while if I have to spend a lot of tyme programming then I want to be able to sell it to other photographers. Now if I use the GPL I wouldn't be able to stop others from taking the software and giving it away, the only way I'd be able to make money is by selling support. However remember I said I wanted to go into photography not software. If however I use a BSD license I could prevent others from giving it away legally.
Fslcon
The term "commercial" has no meaning when it pertains open source. Selling support on top of open source or closed source makes very little different. Most companies would claim that they are commercial.
If a business sales software it's commercial, whether it's code is propriety or FOOS.
Falcon
No, not a land war in Asia. From here
Ah, you read Jerry Pournelle? His "Chaos Manor" in "Byte Magazine" was one of my favorite columns in the print edition. My other one was Steve Ciarcia's "Circuit Cellar", which now an independent magazine.
Falcon
newspapers don't write stories, unless you count the captions underneath pictures of kids, "human interest" stories about kittens rescued from trees, and complimentary (paid) copy about new business "grand openings" etc.
Yes they do, or did. Years ago a friend was a sports writer for the local paper. She liked that she got tickets to see games. She watched the games then wrote an article about it.
The real "stories" all come from yesterday's AP or Reuters news feed.
That's the problem with newspapers today, you have to wait for them. Now if Amazon's Kindle were to offer subscriptions with breaking news to newspapers then that may be a viable business model. I heard some newspapers are trying it out.
Falcon
That's Just Plain Stupid. Microsoft DOES control what hardware their software runs on.
No they don't. I can go into a store or order from online stores any parts I want and assemble my own PC. MS does not control me. I can even install Linux on it.
Have you forgotten the Microsoft Vista Capable campaign (and lawsuit) so soon?
While I didn't think of it MS does not control component makers. They may share data with them, for instance so MS can include drivers but MS does not control them.
Falcon
and it would be bad for business if we allowed customers to buy, burn, then return every DVD in the store.
I know it's easy to make copies of DVDs but people should be able to get a refund. I've got maybe a dozen disks that are bad and have had to exchange the media for one movie more than once. I've never had as many problems with VHS tapes, I've only had one tape eaten by the player and no problems otherwise, as I have had with DVD disks. And I've bought more tapes than DVDs.
I've always felt that we could remedy this by keeping track of who returns software (e.g. Driver's License info),
Some stores around my area buy used movies and music and at least one requires official ID before they will buy.
and bar certain "repeat returners" from ever returning again.
Whether it's just because I'm unlucky, jinxed, or what I don't know but I've had a bunch of problems with disks. Some have suggested it's the player, but I'm on my third one and I've tried some of the bad disks on all three. Just as there are Lemon Laws for other items they should be applicable to media as well.
Falcon
Nonsense. Anyone is capable of writing their own software, just as anyone is capable of keeping and maintaining their own garden.
This is nonsense. Most people can't program even using something like Borland's Delphi or MS Visual Basic whereas there are very few who have brown thumbs or black thumbs.
My mother has zero interest in programming her own apps, just as I have zero interest in growing my own food.
I do both. I started college with a major in Computer Engineering and have been growing gardens since before I was a teen. I also have other interests. In high school I was torn between majoring in CE and Marine Bio or another marine science. I picked CE, though if I had known then what I know now I would have done a double major.
She would probably write very poor code at first, and I would probably keep a terrible garden; both of us could improve with time.
And how many have the tyme to devote to learning programming while they're already working full tyme? Sure people can improve but that doesn't mean they will be able to program a compleat and useful app. Gardening is easier.
Falcon
I handed them the nice little instruction book filled with pretty pics that came with the motherboard. The only question i got was "How do you tell which screws go where?"
Smart kids.
Computers really are pretty simple to work on now, most folks would just rather pay some guy like me than DIY.
I think PCs have pretty much always been easy to assemble, the hard part being drivers, which is still a problem Linux has with some hardware.
As for MSFT owning the Netbook market, is Acer and Toshiba good enough sources?
Ok, yes it's good enough. I don't keep up with the market, I have no interest in netbooks period, and didn't know what it was like.
And you cite CnR, but CnR is now owned by Xandros and the Linux community HATES Xandros
Again I was unaware. I said CNR came installed on my Linux PC, the distro installed was Linspire and they created it. And some in the community also hate Linspire. Personally I didn't know that 'til after I got it. My Windows PC I used was crapping out on me and I couldn't afford to spend much on a new PC. While looking around I saw this PC in a store selling for $250 with a $50 mail-in rebate. So I ended up buying one. Other than when the motherboard had to be replaced, it was still under warranty, I didn't have a problem with it. Well, I did. It didn't come with enough RAM or large enough an HDD so I also got more RAM and a second larger HDD. Even with those added the price was still lower than a Windows PC.
So while you got lucky that CNR came with yours I sincerely doubt you will see many main stream distros support it in the future.
There are 9 clients for different distro, two being RedHat and Ubuntu. So while distros may not include it it can be installed.
How is taking the laptop to the bozos at Geek Squad supposed to help? WTF?
WTF? is right. When did I say anything about taking the laptops to the Geek Squad? The only tyme I mentioned them was when I said I took my NT4 PC to them so they could install the Windows update Microsoft would not let me download.
Bye
Falcon
Like if food was held to health and safety standards only the rich could afford to eat?
Most anyone can grow food, the past couple of weeks I've been working on my garden, most people can not write their own programs though. By one estimate Conficker caused more than $100 Billion, with a "B", damage in one year. A FOOS project could not afford that. I doubt even MS or Oracle could.
But no worries, I hear you can buy some cheap milk* from China.
There are local farmers I can get to know I can buy milk from, though I don't I am a member of not 1 but 2 coops that buy from local businesses and farmers. My milk doesn't travel 1000 miles to get to my frig. A lot of the produce they carry don't go more than a couple of hundred miles, some farmers are even within 50 miles. Then there are a number of farmers markets I can go to as well.
However I don't expect every town to have it's own software business.
Falcon
If the EU wants higher-quality software, they should support an industry-wide system for the licensing and qualification of programmers, like we have for other engineering disciplines and professions.
That's exactly what "professionals" use to limit competition. Great idea. NOT!!!
For example, they could require that all government software, or software for use in aircraft and life-critical functions.
If you look at a lot of software licenses, many exclude use of the software for life critical uses. For instance look at the Quickbrowse license, I'm using it only because it was the first result with the license when I googled "ms windows" license aircraft OR "life critical" OR "life-critical". It says "THE QUICKBROWSE SOFTWARE IS NOT DESIGNED, INTENDED OR LICENSED FOR USE IN HAZARDOUS ENVIRONMENTS REQUIRING FAIL-SAFE CONTROLS, INCLUDING WITHOUT LIMITATION, THE DESIGN, CONSTRUCTION, MAINTENANCE OR OPERATION OF NUCLEAR FACILITIES, AIRCRAFT NAVIGATION OR COMMUNICATION".
Falcon
I am tired of these implicit assumptions that FOSS is better than proprietary/closed source.
And what of the implicit, and explicit, assumptions and assertions, that closed source is better than open source? Why not judge software on it's merits? I like GIMP, it's great for most of what people want to do with it. But it's not a drop-in replacement for Photoshop. I like OS X, I'm typing this on a MacBook Pro running Leopard, but I also like Linux. And am thinking of installing Ubuntu on it to make it dualboot.
Fslcon
The same way they are now.
Now, many are paid by businesses to develop the software which the business then sells or services. If those businesses are held liable for more than just the cost of the software or service then those companies may not stay in business long. Microsoft wouldn't be able to pay everyone for damages, even if they have a lot of money in the bank. One estimate one TFA has is Conflicter caused more than $150 Billion in damage in one year alone. Never mind MS, FOOS projects could not handle that type of liability.
Herein lies Apple's advantage over Microsoft. Apple creates it's software to run on the hardware it also creates. They are able to make sure it "just works". MS on the other hand can not control what hardware their software will run on.
They could, all that's stopping them is the fact that they would have to give up some of their market share to Linux, or step up their support of older OS+hardware combinations.
Microsoft can't control what hardware people install Windows on, unless during installation it checked to make sure the hardware was authorized. People are already having trouble with XP's and Vista's Activation even after adding or swapping hardware, they'd go ballistic if Windows told them it did not work with their hardware because it wasn't authorized. Supporting more hardware would lead to testing for all the possible hardware combinations which would lead to higher costs.
Don't get me wrong, I'm not an MS fanbios. If you check my previous posts about MS I don't like it but I don't blame them for everything either.
Falcon
This is one of the saner comments I've read. Unfortunately, while you can return the TV or computer even if it's not in the box most stores do not accept returned software if it's been opened. I say most, because while I've never been to or heard of one doing it there might be some who do. Heck, stores around here won't even give a refund for DVD movies that have been opened. The best I've been able to do is to get a store to do an exchange, exchange the media for another one of the same movie. And I once had to return and exchange the same movie twice because the disks wouldn't play.
Falcon
My initial post was on the topic of selling software, not giving it away, and certainly not the development of new software.
How is a FOOS developer putting food on the table if the software they develop is not sold? That I can think of now, the only way is if someone sells service and support? That itself is a liability though.
You said you would feel no moral responsibility for damage caused by your code. I don't disagree if that code never moves past beta. But once you put it out there as available to 'end users', I think you have some duty to make sure it is usable for what it purports.
Herein lies Apple's advantage over Microsoft. Apple creates it's software to run on the hardware it also creates. They are able to make sure it "just works". MS on the other hand can not control what hardware their software will run on.
Falcon
If someone sells GPL based software, they are free to do so and pick up the tab on flaws in the product. Same goes for proprietary software.
I don't think you thought this through. If software developers are held liable, especially for FOOS, then only the wealthy could afford to buy software. It would cost too much for open source projects to buy insurance. And commercial software, if it existed, would cost too much as well.
Falcon
software liability? Do you think introducing liability for software would be a great way to force Microsoft to pay for all the damage its software has caused, and to start writing some really secure code, or would it lead to terrible problems for those producing free software, and stunt the uptake of open source? Would the European Commission's proposal be a blessing or a blight?
It could be both good and bad. If commercial vendors like Microsoft are help liable then their products may get better. Or it could kill MS. If FOOS had to meet the same liability I don't see how it could survive. I'm hesitant but I may say commercial vendors should be liable but not FOOS.
Falcon
Learning to share is a valuable lesson. In fact it's one of the first things you learn in engineering school, albeit it's called "team learning", because in the real world there's never enough resources for everybody.
I agree team work is good but my teacher didn't have us work in teams. He had us do most of our work with pen, er pencil, and paper. After a while he set it up so we could use the dumb terminals in the library so we could try our programs outside of class. The problem with this though was that in class we used cassette tapes to store our programs and there was no way we could save what we were doing on the terminals. When we used them we had to write stuff down, or ask a librarian if we could print something out, and they didn't always let us.
Falcon
As I said in my post, yes my boys can put together theor own boxes.
But I asked if you taught them to do it?
i'm sure that SC has some geeks in Junior High and HS. Give them extra credit for spending a few hours a week pulling "shop" duty.
I've suggested this.
Look at the Netbook market. It was practically built for Linux, with its low CPU and memory resources, and yet MSFT is now totally dominating that market.
MS is? Do you have a source?
Why? Because it all comes down to the apps and ease of use. And I know the Linux fanboys will hate me for daring to say this, but Linux ain't easy.
The degree of ease of use really depends. And if all that was all then some would say Apple would dominate. If all you've ever used was Windows then using the same version will be easiest for most, but even switching from one version to another can entail retraining. Different people find different things easy. I've owned and used Linux and Windows PCs, under my desk I have two towers one with Windows NT4 and one with Linux preinstalled, well 3 really. The third has WinME but it's dead. And Macs, I'm typing this on my MacBook Pro. Linux can be such as easy as Windows or OS X. Actually the first tyme I booted up my Linux PC after I set up a user account, it asked me to set an admin then a user account, the desktop looked almost the same as a Windows desktop. It automatically detected and configured my cable access, as it did when I plugged in my external hdds. I did not have to do any configurations. And when it detected my connection it asked if I wanted to check to see if any updates were available.
And with CNR, Click N Run, it's hard to beat installing software whether productively, net, or games. Once the CNR client is installed, my Linux PC came with it installed, all you have to do is browse, look through, or search the software. And when you find one you want click the "install" button for free software, or there is paid for software you click the "Buy/install" button to get. The computer downloads and installs the software for you.
Now in this case, if the hardware is designed for Linux out of the box? Yeah it could be easy. But will it be easy to the PHB that is in charge of approving the laptops?
Notice in my post I said TFA does not say what OS is installed. As for the PHB, what PHB is in charge? This is a philanthropic organization that's providing the laptops not the government.
And is MSFT throwing in some money or hardware to ensure the correct answer is Windows?
Yea, I'd expect MS to do that.
What I do know is most education software is written for Windows, simply because it is the biggest market and you go where the money is.
This does bring up an interesting point. However as you said earlier TFA's "a hell of a lot of hot air with precious few details." They don't say what uses they will be put to. If it's so students can write papers Linux should do fine. As it would for the internet. However if they want to use educational software that teaches then they'll need Windows unless they can get others to provide programs for Linux.
most older folks are of the mindset that "computers=Windows" and it is the older folks in charge in SC that will be making the call.
Gosh, I must be ancient. The first computers I ever used were Trash, er TRS-80s, Apple II and a dumb terminal connected to an IBM System/360. In other words I recall a tyme before MS Windows was even dreamed of. And, we don't know who is in charge.
But if these machines are actually supposed to be run by the kids
Not only is it wrong in principle, it does not actually work...
Yea, public education is a waste. Only the wealthy should educated.
Falcon
One wonders how much they could improve their student/teacher ratio if they used all that money on hiring more teachers instead.
Government is not paying for the computers, a non-profit is.
Falcon
I really don't see the advantage of having kids lug around laptops between home and school. Back when I was in school, computer labs were adequate and would be easier to maintain.
I don't see the need for laptops or any computer in schools period.
Currently, it would be better to have laptops assigned to the classrooms and not to the students. The students should be using a flash drive for their personal files instead.
That assumes kids have a computer at home, but many don't.
In any scenario, using a Windows OS means dealing with malware concerns.
TFA does not say what OS is used, it may be Linux not Windows.
Falcon
I certainly believe computers are invaluable and it's good to expose children to them early on. But students don't need their own laptops. What they need are good, current text books. A class with a focus on computers makes far more sense, or perhaps a couple of computers in each classroom for children to share.
I believe that depends on where and how it is used. An organization in Africa setup a satellite dish with which e-textbooks could be easily updated. Printed books were just too expensive. Students were able to take the laptops home and do their reading, homework, assignments. Power, just pull on a cord to recharge the laptop.
Then there's the fact that most of these laptops wont survive the school year. College kids do a good job of trashing their machines it will only be worse with children.
One emphasis was on toughness. They were planned for use in the Third World.
Falcon
Those that can utilize this boon without assistance from teachers or staff will excel, those that are less intelligent or less inclined deserver what they're capable of too.
I agree this can be an opportunity to kids. However different people have different learning styles. Some can learn by reading a book, some learn by doing, and some need someone to help them.
Falcon
How about all of the volume licensing agreements? Agreements for OSes, anti-virus clients, patch management systems, etc. are all done by volume. Who is going to pay for the additional licenses for these systems?
I agree spending money on infrastructure, fixing leaking roofs say, may be money better spent. However TFA does not say what OS will be used. If it's Linux then AV isn't needed. Patch management can be handled by having one server at the school where patches can be downloaded.
Maintenance? Is the grant going to give us enough spare laptops to cover for children while they're laptops are down for repair, students who forget laptops, etc? What about the increased workload of an already-thing IT department covering the additional laptops that will, in all likelihood, break more often?
Perhaps high school students can be trained to repair broken laptops. Some months ago I read an article on how some students were doing this.
And as for the Linux? I'm a FOSS advocate, run nix at home, etc. But you have to realize that *most* school/district IT departments are staffed by folks who were the most technologically proficient users at the time the equipment was installed, e.g. the librarian who knew how to install MS Office got promoted to be the head of the district IT department. Sorry, but supporting (or even running) Linux for a lot of these folks is over their heads.
As above, perhaps students can be trained to work with Linux. I don't but if I did have the skills I'd try to do this myself. I don't work so it'd give me something constructive to do as well as give me experience I could then use to try to find some work. Related, I's like to find a nonprofit I could help with their websites.
Falcon