The unforgivable sin of the Bush administration (or at least, one of the first) was taking the country from surplus to deficit when the economy was relatively strong.
While I blame Bush for turning a surplus into a big deficit, the economy was already souring when he became president. What Bush did was make the deficit bigger than it would have been otherwise.
Remember, the first round of tax cuts for the rich?
When people including the rich have more money they can and will invest and or spend more.
As for the war, your just showing your ignorance. The war was needed back when Clinton was president
Now you're showing your ignorance. War wasn't needed, Iraq had no WMDs when Bush invaded. When Saddam did have WMDs as presidents both Reagan and Bush Sr supported Saddam. Back then he could use WMDs against anyone and it was alright. Iran? Check. Kurds? Check. Marsh Arabs? Check. It was only after Saddam invaded Kuwait, a sheikdom not a democracy, when the support stopped.
Having said that many people don't know why Saddam invaded Kuwait. Why did Saddam order the invasion of Kuwait? Because Kuwait was slant drilling into Iraqi oil fields.
Actually, I implied that Dell is cool because it owns Alienware and continues to let them do cool stuff.
I didn't get the part about Dell letting them do cool stuff, sorry.
I actually was really pissed when Dell bought Alienware, expecting they would ruin it.
I was just the opposite when Gateway bought Amiga. Amigas were my fav computer/os and I thought Gateway would revive it so I was happy. But instead they buried it so I became pissed.
DEC was probably the single best hardware/software company ever
I wouldn't say the best but they were up there.
and while Compaq didn't completely destroy the DEC legacy, HP sure did.
HP was good before Carly Fiorina. I still have my HP 15C. I don't know if it's the battery or the calculator but it doesn't work anymore though. I wanted to but never did get the HP 48G. I haven't heard anything in a while but I heard years ago HP calculators went downhill.
But to put this back on tangent... Apple no longer releases stuff that I find exciting. I *was* a fan until I had 3 years of HORRIBLE experiences and terrible equipment failures.
I didn't have much trouble with Macs, other than their prices which have been lowered. On the other hand I've had hardware and software problems with Windows PCs, and a Linux PC. The first computer I bought was a used Mac SE30 I got in 1992. Because it only had a double density floppy drive and not a high density one I think it was made in 1988. It lasted me until 2000 when the floppy drive died. The second used Mac I got I got a few months later. It was a PowerPC 7300/200 from 1997-8. It finally refused to bootup in 2006. They both lasted me several years.
However I have had hardware and or software problems with every Windows PC I bought, all of them bought new. The first was a Gateway, it's hdd had to be replaced about 6 months after I got it then the motherboard had to be replaced 2 weeks shy of one year. I got the Alpha from Microway at the same tyme and while I didn't have problems with it directly, or with NT4, because the FX! 32 emulator wasn't as good as people said it was I wasn't able to get much software installed. Then as a replacement for them I bought a new HP Pavilion. And like the Gateway it's hdd and mobo had to be replaced in the first year. The same happened with a PC I bought with Linux installed.
Dell may not be producing amazing advances, but they make solid machines that I can get for half the price of Apple's "cool" stuff.
That would have been true in the '90s but it's not now. On both accounts, solid machines and the price. The vary first tyme I tried Windows XP, on Dell, the Dell froze when I booted it up. After 5 minutes I had to push and hold the power button before rebooting. And it was a brand new PC. I was taking a class in college and this happened on the first day of class and the PCs had just been delivered. As for the price, before buying my MBP I compared it's price to the prices of various Windows PC OEM laptops. While an HP was about $50 less a comparable Dell was about $200 more.
The biggest reason I switched from Windows though is because Microsoft wants to treat it's users like criminals. Since XP unless Windows is allowed to connect to a Microsoft server for Activation it will either stop working or will have reduced functionality after a month from the first tyme it's booted up. Then there's Windows Genuine Advantage (WGA) and all the spyware. So when it came tyme for me to get computers, for a desktop PC I got a Linux PC and the MacBook Pro for a laptop.
Another thing, one reason one of the things that makes Macs good is that they "just work".
Windows work to, my Macbook Pro is almost 16 months old now, issues:
Windows does not work as well as OS X. Having owned PCs with 3 different versions of Windows only one of them did not require Windows to be reinstalled repeatedly, Windows NT4. The first tyme I tried another version, XP, the PC it was on was a new Dell and it froze while booting up. Meanwhile I have had two problems with my MacBook Pro, about 19 months old, the first wasn't even a problem with the Mac. When I ordered it I also ordered TechTool Pro 4 utility with it. The problem was that Apple sent me an older version of it and the bootup diagnostics weren't compatible with the newer CPU. The second problem is that sometimes when I close the lid it does not always wake up right away when I open it.
* Safari crashes all the fucking time.
I use Firefox not Safari, and it crashes occasionally. But then it also crashed some on my Windows PC.
* The aluminium front around the lid button is lose.
I haven't seen that but I have seen a few MacBooks/Pros with yellowing on either side of the trackpad though not on mine.
* Since Safari always eat all CPU the machine gets hot and therefor my battery life is down to around 8%.
Again because I don't use Safari I can't say anything about how it gets hot or how the battery life is. However I frequently have Firefox open, Eclipse running, and at least two finder windows open at the same tyme. And while it gets warm I never have had my MBP get too hot. And the battery will last about 4 hours. Now I admit I have two batteries and I switch them every few days.
* The "SuperDrive" is "SuperCrappy" and have had issues with burning disks before, it can't even burn Verbatim 16x DVD+R MCC004 discs,
I haven't burned any DVDs/CDs yet. Though at some point I plan to work with media files I don't now and for backups and such I have two external harddisk drives and plan to get at least one more. Actually I plan to replace the internal drive in the MBP with a bigger drive, then I'll get a dock I can put the old drive into to use as another external drive.
* I've had plenty of graphics errors which is probably thanks to Nvidias broken 8600m-chips.
What sort of errors are these? I haven't noticed any myself.
* No mic input is retarded.
Mine has one, on the left side between the USB ports and the ExpressCard slot.
Let iPhoto and Aperture co-exist so I can fix images in a program which doesn't suck... I use Lightroom
I haven't used either iPhoto or Aperture. I hope to start working as a photographer, though with how the economy is now that may not go well, so I may start using Aperture. It came installed on my MBP but not knowing what the deal is with it, whether it's trialware or what (and I'll asked people in Apple stores), I haven't started it yet. For quick edits of photos I have Photoshop Elements. Now I'm debating on whether to install Ubuntu to dualboot the MBP. If I do then I can install and use CinePaint to do more advanced photo editing. If I don't install it then I may buy Photoshop CS. And I may yet use Aperture.
And so on, I have no idea what "just works" on a mac, the drivers? If I bought a branded PC with Windows it would "just work" to, and if I didn't I would just find the drivers, how hard is that?
When I plugged in my external HDDs and printer into my MBP they just worked. I only had to install a driver for the scanner. However I had to install more drivers when I used Windows. Also I have not had problems with hardware. However two branded PCs I bought new the harddisk had to be replaced after about 6 months and the motherboards after a year.
Fact is the only thing I like more in OS X than say FreeBSD and KDE is the available amount of pro-apps (if I get a MIDI-controller, want to work with phot
Macintosh: OS and UI designed for an average person not wanting to type in commands.
Although note that just about all OSs have succeeded at this - the only notable exception being Linux
Linux has at least 2 good GUIs, KDE and Gnome. Of course there's disagreement between the two camps as to which is better. Sometime ago I bought a new PC with Linspire Linux preinstalled. When I first booted it up, running KDE, it looked like Windows.
And sad to say, it's Windows that succeeded by far in terms of bringing such an OS to the masses.
That's because the average user was Bill Gates and Microsoft's target. They made Windows so it could be installed on many different computer systems. Mac OS X on the other hand is made for Apple hardware and Linux has to play catchup with new hardware, not many hardware makers provide drivers for Linux.
You implied Dell was cool because it owned Alienware, however Dell didn't start it Dell bought Alienware. I first thought the same about Gateway when they bought Amiga, Amigas were my favorite computer platform and at the tyme it was expected Gateway would revitalize the Amiga. I also thought DEC's Alpha CPU was cool. So when I bought my first new PCs I bought a Gateway laptop and an Alpha tower PC from Microway. Back then both the Alpha and Gateway had pretty good reviews, but I became sorry I bought them.
I can get a lot of easy-to-use (free) software on the internet for all my needs and not pay the Apple price.
One thing people overlook is that Macs can run more software than any other computer/OS. My Mac, besides Mac software, can run Linux/Unix and Windows software. Windows can run Windows and some X Windows software but not Mac software. Linux can run Linux/Unix software and some Windows software, but not Mac software. I paid nothing for Open Office or NeoOffice. X code comes with Macs though I use Eclipse. My browser is Firefox. Other than a few utilities I bought when I got my Mac the only software I paid for is Photoshop Elements. Unfortunately though unless I install Ubuntu on it I'll probably end up buying Photoshop CS4 as I haven't been able to get CinePaint to run right though I can with Ubuntu. Photoshop costs the same whether it's the Mac or Windows version. As for the rest of the price, before I ordered my MacBook Pro I compared it's price to the prices of various Windows laptops, and it was comparable to theirs.
Quite simply Macs are not more expensive than comparable products from other companies.
I'd rather have my music player "integrated" with my PC with drag and drop functionality and not the iTunes lock-in (which is because Apple wants more money selling music files, naturally).
Though I have iTunes, it comes preinstalled on Macs, I don't have an iPod or iPhone. However I think they do drag and drop to sync. And what is this iTunes lock-in? As for the iTunes music store, it's my understanding Apple doesn't make much money from the sale of music, or videos, Apple makes money from the sale of iPods.
What is up with you lot? Poster claims Apple innovated a bunch of technology that it did not, I call them up on it, and mention that the more I think about it, the more I see Apple observes markets opened up by new, innovative tech and simply improves on them. I can't see anywhere that they have actually led the way, they follow and they follow with good technology. And this seems to have really upset a bunch of people.
My point is that is there is little innovation. Almost all progress is based on something else, with improvements added. Apple just happens to be a business that can take something then convince others they want it, that's in part what marketing is about.
If these so-called zealots were happy to buy an Ipod because they liked it, it suggests to me that their dislike of other Apple products wasn't so irrational after all.
And maybe these zealots didn't like Apple because they never tried using an Apple product. They based their dislike on what other zealots said. I've used Linux, Macs, and Windows and there are things to like and dislike about each. I'm typing this on a MacBook Pro running Leopard however I plan on replacing the hdd with a larger one and when I do I may install Ubuntu as well. Under my desk I have a PC setup to dualboot Windows NT4 and Redhat Linux. I was using Macs before Windows ever made an appearance. My first Windows was 3.x. When I bought my NT4/Redhat PC I also bought a Win95 laptop. Since then I've used ME and XP, though I have not used Vista, and do not paln on doing so. So my likes and dislikes are based on experience but I've known others who hate any one or two of the above and when I ask them why and if they ever used what they don't like most say they have not used it.
once the engineer type finally gets the product right, he has no clue how to get it into the hands of his customers. He doesn't understand retail and distribution. He doesn't understand working with other businesses to negotiate shelf space, cooperative advertising campaigns, or even what advertising is effective.
The stock Microsoft owned of Apple was non voting stock. And though I couldn't confirm it I read where Microsoft sold it in 2002 and made a profit.
Apple's products do not matter, when one buys Apple, they buy the "iImage" not the "iProduct".
I switched from Windows to Mac OS X because I was able to buy my MacBook Pro cheaper than another laptop that is capable of what I wanted to do with it.
Intel® Core(TM) 2 Duo Extreme X9000(2.8GHz/800Mhz FSB/6M L2 Cache)
4GB Shared Dual Channel DDR2 SDRAM at 667MHz
320GB SATA Hard Drive (5400RPM)
17 inch UltraSharp TrueLife Wide-screen WUXGA (1920x1080)
Total: $2,868
While the MacBook Pro is about $230 more than the Dell it's CPU is faster, 2.93GHz versus 2.8GHz as is the RAM, 1066MHz versus 667Mhz. And while not everyone wants or needs it the Mac comes with the iLife suite whereas the Dell comes with Microsoft Works and Adobe Photoshop Elements + Adobe Premiere Elements. There might be a lower priced Dell, however there are several different lines of Dell laptops whereas there are only 3 lines of Apple laptops. What's a person supposed to do, compare the different Dell lines?
Please keep in mind that this obviously does not apply to everyone - people who can install Linux on their box will probably be confident enough in their own computer-technical abilities and may opt for cheaper products.
I'm typing this on a MacBook Pro. Right now I'm looking for a larger harddisk drive for it and once I replace the one in it now I may install Ubuntu as well. I had planned installing Ubuntu when I ordered it.
Personally I think the main issue Apple will have to overcome is that their products typically are at the pricier end of the market
Yeap, higher cost is a perception Apple suffers from, but that all it is, perception. Switching from Windows I first compared the prices of the MacBook Pro and different Windows laptops. Most of the Windows laptops cost about the same as the MBP. The most expensive one was a Dell and it cost $200 more than the MBP.
Apples shares and fanbois will have issues over Jobs' health over the next few years
Like TFA implies it's perception. Steve Jobs is the face of Apple but Apple has a number of creative people working for it. Personally I wouldn't want it to fail anymore than I want Microsoft to fail, competition is great.
But now in defense of Apple 'iInnovation(TM)' I expect comments along the lines of: "its not the parts but the sum" or "the whole user experience is innovative" and other, amorphous and content free claims. There is no innovation here, move along people or just admit that macs are shiny, so very shiny and desirable.
The same thing can be said about Windows and Linux.
All my laptops have been Dells. Despite the issues I've had (2 failed hardrives, failed motherboard, older ones had screens that would get scuffed by the casing) they're consistently about 20-30% cheaper
Before I got the Macbook Pro I'm typing this on, I compared it's price to the prices of various Windows laptops. A similarly configured Dell laptop cost $200 more than my MBP. Otherwise the prices of different laptops were about the same.
The prices on the Apple machines were the highest
A Dell cost more than my MBP.
my experiences with Apple support make Dell's missed appointments etc look good.
When I wasn't able to get Leopard's Time Machine working, I kept getting an error message, I went to an Apple store to the Genius Bar. Two hours later I had an appointment with one of them and she fixed it within 10 minutes.
I've had the MBP for about 19 months and that was the second tyme I had to have help with the laptop. On the other hand the first laptop I bought the harddisk drive had to be replaced about 6 months after I bought it and 2 weeks shy of a year the motherboard also had to be replaced. I also had to reinstall Windows a bunch of tymes.
Oh and for that higher price the hard drives weren't as large, the processors were slower and I didn't get a complimentary 3 year warranty.
Configuring a Dell with similar specs to my MBP the Dell was $200 more.
The more grunt and the less I had to pay the better.
By buying a Mac I paid less than if I bought a Dell though an HP would have cost $50 less, and caused a lot more trouble.
Ah but we don't live in reality we live in the land of "Perception" and the perception was that Apple tanked without Steve2 (having already gotten rid of the GOOD Steve1), and the perception is what everyone will be on about.
If Apple just want to get big among costumers all they need to do is to start selling the OS and applications for any computer.
Apple tried that. Back in the '90s Apple did allow other companies to make Mac clones. But when they brought Steve back he took a look at the books and saw Apple was loosing money because of the clones.
To sell software doesn't cost much so I doubt they would have a hard time surviving no matter what would happen.
Apple did not make enough from licensing the Mac OS to cover the loss in hardware sales.
Another thing, one reason one of the things that makes Macs good is that they "just work". With a limited line of Macs Apple can make sure the hardware and software work well together. If Apple were to license OS X to others they'd end up just like Microsoft, with people complaining about buggy software.
universal health care, you wouldn't have had to sue anyone.
Yea, instead of the guilty party being held responsible tax payers would be. Because my family was able to sue the guilty party they were made to pay. That's another thing I would not change, personal or in my case the employer's responsibility. Instead of people taking personal responsibility they want a nanny state. And another person talking about socialized medicine. Prior to my accident, except for smoking, I tried to live a healthy lifestyle. Other than tobacco, which because I smoke I'm quite willing to pay more for health insurance, I ate organic health food and exercised daily. When I had my accident, as I said before I was riding my bike when I was hit, I rode my bike at least 200 mile a week. I also practiced dance, modern and jazz for the stage, and kung fu. Having done so I see no reason I should have to pay more for health insurance because of those who do not take care of themselves. There's no reason I should have to be made to pay someone else's health bills because they ate junk food or otherwise did not take care of themselves.
You got shuffled around while the insurance tried to outlast you.
Wow, you know all about my case? I guess not as you're wrong. Not only did the lawsuit not go to a jury, the insurance company actually made an offer, which we accepted, to settle the case. Because the person who hit me was working while driving a company vehicle their insurance decided to offer the full amount the employer was insured for. Personally I believe they should have paid more but my attorneys didn't think we could have gotten more if the case went to trial.
But you're the one who's stuck with the infirmity. You have my heart felt sympathy.
Slashdot Mirror
The unforgivable sin of the Bush administration (or at least, one of the first) was taking the country from surplus to deficit when the economy was relatively strong.
While I blame Bush for turning a surplus into a big deficit, the economy was already souring when he became president. What Bush did was make the deficit bigger than it would have been otherwise.
Remember, the first round of tax cuts for the rich?
When people including the rich have more money they can and will invest and or spend more.
Falcon
Why did you say It was the liberal senators that took over in the last 2 years that passed the bailouts" then? Here you are singling out "liberal senators", none of which are really liberal. A real liberal believes in liberty and small government.
Falcon
As for the war, your just showing your ignorance. The war was needed back when Clinton was president
Now you're showing your ignorance. War wasn't needed, Iraq had no WMDs when Bush invaded. When Saddam did have WMDs as presidents both Reagan and Bush Sr supported Saddam. Back then he could use WMDs against anyone and it was alright. Iran? Check. Kurds? Check. Marsh Arabs? Check. It was only after Saddam invaded Kuwait, a sheikdom not a democracy, when the support stopped.
Having said that many people don't know why Saddam invaded Kuwait. Why did Saddam order the invasion of Kuwait? Because Kuwait was slant drilling into Iraqi oil fields.
Falcon
Actually of the US auto makers Ford is in the best shape. Unlike Chrysler and GM Ford isn't about to go bankrupt.
That doesn't mean it's exactly in good shape, now, does it?
I should have phrased it better. Of the three Detroit auto makers, Ford is only one not near bankruptcy.
Falcon
Actually, I implied that Dell is cool because it owns Alienware and continues to let them do cool stuff.
I didn't get the part about Dell letting them do cool stuff, sorry.
I actually was really pissed when Dell bought Alienware, expecting they would ruin it.
I was just the opposite when Gateway bought Amiga. Amigas were my fav computer/os and I thought Gateway would revive it so I was happy. But instead they buried it so I became pissed.
DEC was probably the single best hardware/software company ever
I wouldn't say the best but they were up there.
and while Compaq didn't completely destroy the DEC legacy, HP sure did.
HP was good before Carly Fiorina. I still have my HP 15C. I don't know if it's the battery or the calculator but it doesn't work anymore though. I wanted to but never did get the HP 48G. I haven't heard anything in a while but I heard years ago HP calculators went downhill.
But to put this back on tangent... Apple no longer releases stuff that I find exciting. I *was* a fan until I had 3 years of HORRIBLE experiences and terrible equipment failures.
I didn't have much trouble with Macs, other than their prices which have been lowered. On the other hand I've had hardware and software problems with Windows PCs, and a Linux PC. The first computer I bought was a used Mac SE30 I got in 1992. Because it only had a double density floppy drive and not a high density one I think it was made in 1988. It lasted me until 2000 when the floppy drive died. The second used Mac I got I got a few months later. It was a PowerPC 7300/200 from 1997-8. It finally refused to bootup in 2006. They both lasted me several years.
However I have had hardware and or software problems with every Windows PC I bought, all of them bought new. The first was a Gateway, it's hdd had to be replaced about 6 months after I got it then the motherboard had to be replaced 2 weeks shy of one year. I got the Alpha from Microway at the same tyme and while I didn't have problems with it directly, or with NT4, because the FX! 32 emulator wasn't as good as people said it was I wasn't able to get much software installed. Then as a replacement for them I bought a new HP Pavilion. And like the Gateway it's hdd and mobo had to be replaced in the first year. The same happened with a PC I bought with Linux installed.
Dell may not be producing amazing advances, but they make solid machines that I can get for half the price of Apple's "cool" stuff.
That would have been true in the '90s but it's not now. On both accounts, solid machines and the price. The vary first tyme I tried Windows XP, on Dell, the Dell froze when I booted it up. After 5 minutes I had to push and hold the power button before rebooting. And it was a brand new PC. I was taking a class in college and this happened on the first day of class and the PCs had just been delivered. As for the price, before buying my MBP I compared it's price to the prices of various Windows PC OEM laptops. While an HP was about $50 less a comparable Dell was about $200 more.
The biggest reason I switched from Windows though is because Microsoft wants to treat it's users like criminals. Since XP unless Windows is allowed to connect to a Microsoft server for Activation it will either stop working or will have reduced functionality after a month from the first tyme it's booted up. Then there's Windows Genuine Advantage (WGA) and all the spyware. So when it came tyme for me to get computers, for a desktop PC I got a Linux PC and the MacBook Pro for a laptop.
Falcon
Another thing, one reason one of the things that makes Macs good is that they "just work".
Windows work to, my Macbook Pro is almost 16 months old now, issues:
Windows does not work as well as OS X. Having owned PCs with 3 different versions of Windows only one of them did not require Windows to be reinstalled repeatedly, Windows NT4. The first tyme I tried another version, XP, the PC it was on was a new Dell and it froze while booting up. Meanwhile I have had two problems with my MacBook Pro, about 19 months old, the first wasn't even a problem with the Mac. When I ordered it I also ordered TechTool Pro 4 utility with it. The problem was that Apple sent me an older version of it and the bootup diagnostics weren't compatible with the newer CPU. The second problem is that sometimes when I close the lid it does not always wake up right away when I open it.
* Safari crashes all the fucking time.
I use Firefox not Safari, and it crashes occasionally. But then it also crashed some on my Windows PC.
* The aluminium front around the lid button is lose.
I haven't seen that but I have seen a few MacBooks/Pros with yellowing on either side of the trackpad though not on mine.
* Since Safari always eat all CPU the machine gets hot and therefor my battery life is down to around 8%.
Again because I don't use Safari I can't say anything about how it gets hot or how the battery life is. However I frequently have Firefox open, Eclipse running, and at least two finder windows open at the same tyme. And while it gets warm I never have had my MBP get too hot. And the battery will last about 4 hours. Now I admit I have two batteries and I switch them every few days.
* The "SuperDrive" is "SuperCrappy" and have had issues with burning disks before, it can't even burn Verbatim 16x DVD+R MCC004 discs,
I haven't burned any DVDs/CDs yet. Though at some point I plan to work with media files I don't now and for backups and such I have two external harddisk drives and plan to get at least one more. Actually I plan to replace the internal drive in the MBP with a bigger drive, then I'll get a dock I can put the old drive into to use as another external drive.
* I've had plenty of graphics errors which is probably thanks to Nvidias broken 8600m-chips.
What sort of errors are these? I haven't noticed any myself.
* No mic input is retarded.
Mine has one, on the left side between the USB ports and the ExpressCard slot.
Let iPhoto and Aperture co-exist so I can fix images in a program which doesn't suck ... I use Lightroom
I haven't used either iPhoto or Aperture. I hope to start working as a photographer, though with how the economy is now that may not go well, so I may start using Aperture. It came installed on my MBP but not knowing what the deal is with it, whether it's trialware or what (and I'll asked people in Apple stores), I haven't started it yet. For quick edits of photos I have Photoshop Elements. Now I'm debating on whether to install Ubuntu to dualboot the MBP. If I do then I can install and use CinePaint to do more advanced photo editing. If I don't install it then I may buy Photoshop CS. And I may yet use Aperture.
And so on, I have no idea what "just works" on a mac, the drivers? If I bought a branded PC with Windows it would "just work" to, and if I didn't I would just find the drivers, how hard is that?
When I plugged in my external HDDs and printer into my MBP they just worked. I only had to install a driver for the scanner. However I had to install more drivers when I used Windows. Also I have not had problems with hardware. However two branded PCs I bought new the harddisk had to be replaced after about 6 months and the motherboards after a year.
Fact is the only thing I like more in OS X than say FreeBSD and KDE is the available amount of pro-apps (if I get a MIDI-controller, want to work with phot
Macintosh: OS and UI designed for an average person not wanting to type in commands.
Although note that just about all OSs have succeeded at this - the only notable exception being Linux
Linux has at least 2 good GUIs, KDE and Gnome. Of course there's disagreement between the two camps as to which is better. Sometime ago I bought a new PC with Linspire Linux preinstalled. When I first booted it up, running KDE, it looked like Windows.
And sad to say, it's Windows that succeeded by far in terms of bringing such an OS to the masses.
That's because the average user was Bill Gates and Microsoft's target. They made Windows so it could be installed on many different computer systems. Mac OS X on the other hand is made for Apple hardware and Linux has to play catchup with new hardware, not many hardware makers provide drivers for Linux.
Falcon
You implied Dell was cool because it owned Alienware, however Dell didn't start it Dell bought Alienware. I first thought the same about Gateway when they bought Amiga, Amigas were my favorite computer platform and at the tyme it was expected Gateway would revitalize the Amiga. I also thought DEC's Alpha CPU was cool. So when I bought my first new PCs I bought a Gateway laptop and an Alpha tower PC from Microway. Back then both the Alpha and Gateway had pretty good reviews, but I became sorry I bought them.
Falcon
I can get a lot of easy-to-use (free) software on the internet for all my needs and not pay the Apple price.
One thing people overlook is that Macs can run more software than any other computer/OS. My Mac, besides Mac software, can run Linux/Unix and Windows software. Windows can run Windows and some X Windows software but not Mac software. Linux can run Linux/Unix software and some Windows software, but not Mac software. I paid nothing for Open Office or NeoOffice. X code comes with Macs though I use Eclipse. My browser is Firefox. Other than a few utilities I bought when I got my Mac the only software I paid for is Photoshop Elements. Unfortunately though unless I install Ubuntu on it I'll probably end up buying Photoshop CS4 as I haven't been able to get CinePaint to run right though I can with Ubuntu. Photoshop costs the same whether it's the Mac or Windows version. As for the rest of the price, before I ordered my MacBook Pro I compared it's price to the prices of various Windows laptops, and it was comparable to theirs.
Quite simply Macs are not more expensive than comparable products from other companies.
Falcon
I'd rather have my music player "integrated" with my PC with drag and drop functionality and not the iTunes lock-in (which is because Apple wants more money selling music files, naturally).
Though I have iTunes, it comes preinstalled on Macs, I don't have an iPod or iPhone. However I think they do drag and drop to sync. And what is this iTunes lock-in? As for the iTunes music store, it's my understanding Apple doesn't make much money from the sale of music, or videos, Apple makes money from the sale of iPods.
Falcon
And? Did I make any mention of windows and linux?
What is up with you lot? Poster claims Apple innovated a bunch of technology that it did not, I call them up on it, and mention that the more I think about it, the more I see Apple observes markets opened up by new, innovative tech and simply improves on them. I can't see anywhere that they have actually led the way, they follow and they follow with good technology. And this seems to have really upset a bunch of people.
My point is that is there is little innovation. Almost all progress is based on something else, with improvements added. Apple just happens to be a business that can take something then convince others they want it, that's in part what marketing is about.
Falcon
If these so-called zealots were happy to buy an Ipod because they liked it, it suggests to me that their dislike of other Apple products wasn't so irrational after all.
And maybe these zealots didn't like Apple because they never tried using an Apple product. They based their dislike on what other zealots said. I've used Linux, Macs, and Windows and there are things to like and dislike about each. I'm typing this on a MacBook Pro running Leopard however I plan on replacing the hdd with a larger one and when I do I may install Ubuntu as well. Under my desk I have a PC setup to dualboot Windows NT4 and Redhat Linux. I was using Macs before Windows ever made an appearance. My first Windows was 3.x. When I bought my NT4/Redhat PC I also bought a Win95 laptop. Since then I've used ME and XP, though I have not used Vista, and do not paln on doing so. So my likes and dislikes are based on experience but I've known others who hate any one or two of the above and when I ask them why and if they ever used what they don't like most say they have not used it.
Falcon
once the engineer type finally gets the product right, he has no clue how to get it into the hands of his customers. He doesn't understand retail and distribution. He doesn't understand working with other businesses to negotiate shelf space, cooperative advertising campaigns, or even what advertising is effective.
That sounds like Xerox PARC.
Falcon
The stock Microsoft owned of Apple was non voting stock. And though I couldn't confirm it I read where Microsoft sold it in 2002 and made a profit.
Apple's products do not matter, when one buys Apple, they buy the "iImage" not the "iProduct".
I switched from Windows to Mac OS X because I was able to buy my MacBook Pro cheaper than another laptop that is capable of what I wanted to do with it.
Falcon
Face it ... without Jobs, apple is just an overpriced PC with proprietary software AND hardware.
2009 is calling. Mac prices have been comparable to Windows PC prices for years.
MacBook Pro "17
Total: $3,099.00
Dell XPS M1730 Laptop
Total: $2,868
While the MacBook Pro is about $230 more than the Dell it's CPU is faster, 2.93GHz versus 2.8GHz as is the RAM, 1066MHz versus 667Mhz. And while not everyone wants or needs it the Mac comes with the iLife suite whereas the Dell comes with Microsoft Works and Adobe Photoshop Elements + Adobe Premiere Elements. There might be a lower priced Dell, however there are several different lines of Dell laptops whereas there are only 3 lines of Apple laptops. What's a person supposed to do, compare the different Dell lines?
Falcon
Please keep in mind that this obviously does not apply to everyone - people who can install Linux on their box will probably be confident enough in their own computer-technical abilities and may opt for cheaper products.
I'm typing this on a MacBook Pro. Right now I'm looking for a larger harddisk drive for it and once I replace the one in it now I may install Ubuntu as well. I had planned installing Ubuntu when I ordered it.
Falcon
Personally I think the main issue Apple will have to overcome is that their products typically are at the pricier end of the market
Yeap, higher cost is a perception Apple suffers from, but that all it is, perception. Switching from Windows I first compared the prices of the MacBook Pro and different Windows laptops. Most of the Windows laptops cost about the same as the MBP. The most expensive one was a Dell and it cost $200 more than the MBP.
Apples shares and fanbois will have issues over Jobs' health over the next few years
Like TFA implies it's perception. Steve Jobs is the face of Apple but Apple has a number of creative people working for it. Personally I wouldn't want it to fail anymore than I want Microsoft to fail, competition is great.
Falcon
Oh, and let's not forget that Dell owns Alienware, and I LOVE those systems.
Dell bought Alienware and didn't create it though.
Falcon
But now in defense of Apple 'iInnovation(TM)' I expect comments along the lines of: "its not the parts but the sum" or "the whole user experience is innovative" and other, amorphous and content free claims. There is no innovation here, move along people or just admit that macs are shiny, so very shiny and desirable.
The same thing can be said about Windows and Linux.
Falcon
All my laptops have been Dells. Despite the issues I've had (2 failed hardrives, failed motherboard, older ones had screens that would get scuffed by the casing) they're consistently about 20-30% cheaper
Before I got the Macbook Pro I'm typing this on, I compared it's price to the prices of various Windows laptops. A similarly configured Dell laptop cost $200 more than my MBP. Otherwise the prices of different laptops were about the same.
The prices on the Apple machines were the highest
A Dell cost more than my MBP.
my experiences with Apple support make Dell's missed appointments etc look good.
When I wasn't able to get Leopard's Time Machine working, I kept getting an error message, I went to an Apple store to the Genius Bar. Two hours later I had an appointment with one of them and she fixed it within 10 minutes.
I've had the MBP for about 19 months and that was the second tyme I had to have help with the laptop. On the other hand the first laptop I bought the harddisk drive had to be replaced about 6 months after I bought it and 2 weeks shy of a year the motherboard also had to be replaced. I also had to reinstall Windows a bunch of tymes.
Oh and for that higher price the hard drives weren't as large, the processors were slower and I didn't get a complimentary 3 year warranty.
Configuring a Dell with similar specs to my MBP the Dell was $200 more.
The more grunt and the less I had to pay the better.
By buying a Mac I paid less than if I bought a Dell though an HP would have cost $50 less, and caused a lot more trouble.
Falcon
Ah but we don't live in reality we live in the land of "Perception" and the perception was that Apple tanked without Steve2 (having already gotten rid of the GOOD Steve1), and the perception is what everyone will be on about.
Are you talking about The Woz as Steve #1?
Falcon
Hm, maybe not the best example...
Actually of the US auto makers Ford is in the best shape. Unlike Chrysler and GM Ford isn't about to go bankrupt.
Falcon
If Apple just want to get big among costumers all they need to do is to start selling the OS and applications for any computer.
Apple tried that. Back in the '90s Apple did allow other companies to make Mac clones. But when they brought Steve back he took a look at the books and saw Apple was loosing money because of the clones.
To sell software doesn't cost much so I doubt they would have a hard time surviving no matter what would happen.
Apple did not make enough from licensing the Mac OS to cover the loss in hardware sales.
Another thing, one reason one of the things that makes Macs good is that they "just work". With a limited line of Macs Apple can make sure the hardware and software work well together. If Apple were to license OS X to others they'd end up just like Microsoft, with people complaining about buggy software.
Falcon
universal health care, you wouldn't have had to sue anyone.
Yea, instead of the guilty party being held responsible tax payers would be. Because my family was able to sue the guilty party they were made to pay. That's another thing I would not change, personal or in my case the employer's responsibility. Instead of people taking personal responsibility they want a nanny state. And another person talking about socialized medicine. Prior to my accident, except for smoking, I tried to live a healthy lifestyle. Other than tobacco, which because I smoke I'm quite willing to pay more for health insurance, I ate organic health food and exercised daily. When I had my accident, as I said before I was riding my bike when I was hit, I rode my bike at least 200 mile a week. I also practiced dance, modern and jazz for the stage, and kung fu. Having done so I see no reason I should have to pay more for health insurance because of those who do not take care of themselves. There's no reason I should have to be made to pay someone else's health bills because they ate junk food or otherwise did not take care of themselves.
You got shuffled around while the insurance tried to outlast you.
Wow, you know all about my case? I guess not as you're wrong. Not only did the lawsuit not go to a jury, the insurance company actually made an offer, which we accepted, to settle the case. Because the person who hit me was working while driving a company vehicle their insurance decided to offer the full amount the employer was insured for. Personally I believe they should have paid more but my attorneys didn't think we could have gotten more if the case went to trial.
But you're the one who's stuck with the infirmity. You have my heart felt sympathy.
Thanks.
Falcon
The whole basis of their lawsuits against IBM is from the fact that SCO claims to own the UNIX IP.
Yes SCO claims it but they do not own it. Judge Dale Kimball even ruled Novell owned Unix IP. That was an old link, from 10 August 2007. So here's one from 16 July 2008, Ruling: SCO owes Novell $2.54 million from SCO-Sun SVRX deal.
Falcon