It should make your brain hurt. There are nine supreme court justices, why in the hell is only 8 splitting a ruling for?
Why only 8 votes? Because the new Justice, though injustice is more appropriate here, is Elena Kagan who before her approval was President Barack Obama’s solicitor general and she argued before the USSC that they should decline to hear the case, that the 9th U.S. Circuit Court of Appeals had reached the right conclusion.
I'm proud to live in a country that takes due process very seriously
Really? I don't know about Britain but you can't mean the US. I already mentioned a US admin support for the Indonesian invasion of a sovereign nation, East Timor, in which 200,000 were massacred. CIA supported General Pinochet's overthrow of the democratically elected government of Chile, as well as his repressive rule. How about Reagan's support of The Contras, Cocaine, and Covert Operations. Operation Northwoods was a proposal for the CIA to commit acts of terror against US citizens in the US and blame Cuba for them. COINTELPRO was a group of actions taken by the FBI against political groups to discredit and disrupt them. The CIA's Family Jewels: "Agency Violated Charter for 25 Years, Wiretapped Journalists and Dissidents". Cubana Flight 455 was a Cuban airliner brought down by terrorists, Cubans who the CIA paid as agents. The Libertarian, Individual Liberties, and Free Markets Institute CATO has the report Does U.S. Intervention Overseas
Breed Terrorism? The Historical Record it answers in the affirmative.
And let's not forget what the US has done to American Indians. Even though the Cherokee had treaty rights in the Carolinas and Georgia, President Andrew Jackson ordered the military he commanded to force the Cherokee to march on the Trail of Tears to Oklahoma after gold was found. The US broke one treaty after another signed with the Sioux, forcing them unto smaller and smaller reservations. There was the Forced sterilization of Native American Indian women through the 1970's.
If I dig some more I can find a lot more I bet. So don't go saying the US "runs a pretty tight ship".
Maybe I'm being ridiculous, but I'd be more comfortable with the federal government reading my mail than Google.
You are ridiculous. One, you can choose to use or not use Gmail. Two governments have killed more people than any business. That I know of the business that has caused the most deaths was Union Carbide, the Bhopal Disaster. An estimated 15,000 people were killed during and after the spill. 15,000, now how many people have governments killed? In the 1994 Rwandan genocide an estimated 800,000 were murdered. After Indonesia invaded East Timor, with the support of President Ford and Henry Kissinger, an estimated 200,000 or 1/3 of the East Timor population was massacred. Many, many more were killed by the NAZIs, the Soviet Union, and Mao in China. Besides the above mentioned East Timor massacre, the US has a lot more blood on it's hands.
Quite simply government has much more power and is more dangerous than any business.
The Post-9/11 G.I. bill (which went into effect around 2008, same time I was leaving the military) - no longer requires soldiers to have money deducted from their pay.
My brother-in-law told me that Obama changed the GI Bill once he was in office. Searching I saw the change you brought up. But unfortunately I didn't find any changes where I was covered. After being disabled I've been trying to get back to college but haven't found any financial assistance.
You could be completely financially responsible. You could build up a surplus to maintain to present lifestyle for 6 months without earning a wage.
It's 12 months, one year now.
You could be called for jury service for a major case, you say to the judge "yes, I can afford to sit on a 4-month trial".
The trial might go over by a few months, taking 6 in total - you've expended your entire surplus, but that's ok because you're going back to work.
Both tymes I was called for jury I was paid $10 a day. No it's not much but say 4 months is 9 weeks or 63 days, that's $630. Of course it was $10 went I went but that was more than 15 years ago, I would not be surprised if the pay is more than $50 now.
You're in an at-will state, your job disappears a week after you return, you no longer have a surplus to life off because you spent it on living while serving on a jury.
I bet even in at-will states, I lived in one when I was called, employers still have to hold your job for you.
In a lot of cases serving on a jury is a pretty unpleasant experience, given the people and evidence with which you have to deal. Surely that's enough to ask of people serving society, without asking them to bear more than their share of the financial costs as well
So you want to raise taxes then? If not then how are jurors paid? Require defendants to pay? Then only the wealthy could afford a trial.
The G.I. Bill is a Wonderful thing, and already exists.
That's the old GI Bill which ended in 1975. My older sister had educational benefits under it. I on the other had went into the military in 1981 and was covered under the Veterans Educational Assistance Program. Under that program I had part of my pay deducted and for every dollar so deducted the military contributed $2. I had to have money deducted from my pay but that was not required under the old GI Bill.
I also think you might consider extending some empathy for people who are also in an unfortunate situation.
I started my post with "I'm sorry about your financial difficulties". What I did not say in that post, but have in others, is that I have also helped those who were worse off than I was and am now. I used to work with disabled people, which I loved doing I just hate needing help. I took an American Sign Language, ASL, class to communicate with the hearing impaired in college. And a friend broke his back and is bound to a scooter now, at least I can walk and have all my body parts.
I didn't say your problems were invalid, but they are insignificant to the problems other have. Such as pointed out by your following:
There are starving children in Africa, you know.
I know. And if you read some of my previous posts on US farm subsidies, I blame at least some of the starving on the US government as well as other first world nations.
Actually if I did not garden myself I would have starved this past summer. I grew enough greens, that is kale, lettuce, and mustard to have a plate of salad every day for a month. I also canned kale and if I hadn't already eaten it I'd have canned mustard too. At the end of summer I bought tomatoes in bulk from a farmers market at lower prices then I used them to make and can salsa, tomato juice, and tomato sauce. With cucumbers and onions I made and canned pickles and relishes. I made more sauce with rhubarb and strawberries as well as tomatoes for canning. I also canned soups, carrot soup and a soup with other roots. Altogether I cooked and canned enough for me to eat everyday during the winter, some I bought in bulk and some I grew myself.
If I have access to space with enough sun for gardening I can grow at least some of my own food, and I garden every year I have the opportunity. I have gathered food in the wild, in forests, in swamps, and in the Everglades. I've spent weeks camping in the Alaskan winter and the Panama summer. I have also fished and hunted in those wild places. So I can survive on my own. Can you?
If I miss two week's pay in one go, I will lose my home and my car. It will ruin my life.
Life hasn't been good to you lately? I'm sorry about your financial difficulties but wait until you've been disabled in an accident then see how life treats you. I am in that boat and for the past 14 years my life has been a living hell. I have not worked in that tyme. My disability does not pay enough, when I get all of it. Which hasn't happened in 2 years. The only reason I have a roof over my head is because my sister owns the apartment I live in and lets me live here rent free. However that may not last long because she is having problems too, financial and from the government.
It really irritates me when others say how bad life treats them but who are fully capable. Until they are disabled there's little to complain about.
Switzerland does this-every able-bodied male is automatically in the national army and has training for a few weeks a year. I think it's a fine idea, but in the case of the USA, I think the logistics involved would be too complicated.
I've advocated for that too. However I'd make it male and female. As for it being complicated, no it wouldn't be. We ship off those same amounts of kids to school, just extend it to military service.
Speaking of which, I'd also have it so that every year a person serves in the military they get a year of college paid for too.
are jurors also not supposed to educate themselves about he process of law?
Sometime neither defendant, judge, nor prosecutor wants an educated jury. Other times one or two may want one but not the other parties. Actually if a potential juror knows about jury nullification if the judge does not dismiss the juror the prosecutor will ask for the dismissal. And other tymes defense will seek dismissal if the juror knows about Fully Informed Juries.
I think the jurors should be permitted to bill the lawyers (and judge) for their time
Who's going to want to be a judge? And who's going to be able to afford lawyers?
for an hourly rate not more than twice their normal salary. It wouldn't fix the whole system, but it would help.
You're right it won't fix the system it will make it worse. Might as well have the same person be judge, jury, and executioner with multimillion dollar paychecks.
"with some judges now confiscating all phones and computers from jurors when they enter the courtroom."
What makes me wonder is why people would bring these things in the first place.
You've never been called to show up for jury have you? I have, twice. Each tyme I had to show up at the court building 2 days. All I did all 4 days was sit there waiting to be called for questioning.
Back then there were no laptops and the mobile phones were the size of bricks. Me, I loved reading so I brought books. Today I would bring both my cellphone and my laptop.
When did we stop talking about the United States of America? Clearly you are talking about some other country. People have lives, and jury duty can be a significant burden, especially if it goes on for weeks or months.
Yes it's true even in the USA, especially in the USA where trial by jury is guaranteed by the Bill of Rights. Jury duty is a duty for every citizen.
I would also add that, in the country with the highest prison population (both total and per capita), perhaps we just have too many acts being criminalized
Ah, we agree on something. I stated upthread I was notified twice to show up for jury duty. Though I wasn't picked either tyme I was hoping to be picked to serve on a jury for a victimless offense. Had I been picked I would have used the power of jury nullification to send the message a law was bad and I was overruling the politicians who enacted it.
No one on the jury should worry if they will be able to put food on the table because they have to help justice.
Now I don't know but I'd think judges have the discretion to dismiss potential jurors due to financial hardship. I believe jury duty is a duty every citizen should participate in however I also am willing to make arraignments for those it would be a hardship for.
you're about to be judged by 12 people not smart enough to get out of jury duty.
Except it's not true. My presence was requested in court for jury selection twice. If I had been picked, I was hoping I would be, chances are good the defendant would have liked me being on the jury. That is because if I think that a law that exists should not I would use jury nullification to overturn said law. For instance I not only disagree with drug laws and prohibition but I would vote innocent if someone were charged with drug possession, distribution, or sells. The same with prostitution.
You are free to use that as a reason that you can't serve on the jury.
The judge is free to accept that reason or not, and some actually might.
The fastest and easiest to get dismissed from jury duty, even when you don't want to be, is to say you believe in jury nullification and Fully Informed Juries.
I was notified twice I had to appear for jury selection. Both tymes I was hoping I'd be picked to serve on a jury involving possession or distribution of drugs or another victimless crime so I could use jury nullification and send a signal these types of laws restrict liberty. Unfortunately both tymes for 2 days I sat around waiting to be called for questioning without being called.
Or like other financial institutions and businesses. There are businesses other than banks that issue credit cards. For instance a number of oil companies issue them. Such as Gulf Oil, Shell, Marathon, and Sinclair. My first two credit cards were store cards, issued by the stores. I have never had a credit card issued by my bank, I haven't even applied for one there. Actually after congress passed and Obama signed new banking regulations my bank raised it's fees. My account originally was free but after those new regulations a new $10 per month fee was added. So I plan on moving my account to a credit union. Now there I probably will pay for a new credit card, credit unions usually have lower interest rates. Sam's Club, which most definitely is not a bank issues credit cards, and as a member I may apply for one. If so I'll apply for Sam's Discover card, Discover cards are the only credit cards Sam's accepts. And here is Sam's credit card website, both consumer and business accounts.
If it's not a lie then you lied when you said there was no competition. Is there is is there not competition for iPhones, iPods, and iPads?
Well, since you evidently can't figure it out: (1) bad software engineering doesn't necessarily translate into more crashes or reinstalls, and (2) maybe the competitors are using bad software engineering practices too.
Slashdot Mirror
The four running dog lackeys of Business America threw in their lack of wisdom.
Trolling? Many businesses, including Costco, will not like this ruling.
Falcon
It should make your brain hurt. There are nine supreme court justices, why in the hell is only 8 splitting a ruling for?
Why only 8 votes? Because the new Justice, though injustice is more appropriate here, is Elena Kagan who before her approval was President Barack Obama’s solicitor general and she argued before the USSC that they should decline to hear the case, that the 9th U.S. Circuit Court of Appeals had reached the right conclusion.
Falcon
Want to sell your used motherboard on craigslist? Sorry, no can do, this luxuriuously ASUS-branded product was sold to YOU and only YOU.
I'll give it to you free, but shipping will cost $200.
Falcon
I'm proud to live in a country that takes due process very seriously
Really? I don't know about Britain but you can't mean the US. I already mentioned a US admin support for the Indonesian invasion of a sovereign nation, East Timor, in which 200,000 were massacred. CIA supported General Pinochet's overthrow of the democratically elected government of Chile, as well as his repressive rule. How about Reagan's support of The Contras, Cocaine, and Covert Operations. Operation Northwoods was a proposal for the CIA to commit acts of terror against US citizens in the US and blame Cuba for them. COINTELPRO was a group of actions taken by the FBI against political groups to discredit and disrupt them. The CIA's Family Jewels: "Agency Violated Charter for 25 Years, Wiretapped Journalists and Dissidents". Cubana Flight 455 was a Cuban airliner brought down by terrorists, Cubans who the CIA paid as agents. The Libertarian, Individual Liberties, and Free Markets Institute CATO has the report Does U.S. Intervention Overseas Breed Terrorism? The Historical Record it answers in the affirmative.
And let's not forget what the US has done to American Indians. Even though the Cherokee had treaty rights in the Carolinas and Georgia, President Andrew Jackson ordered the military he commanded to force the Cherokee to march on the Trail of Tears to Oklahoma after gold was found. The US broke one treaty after another signed with the Sioux, forcing them unto smaller and smaller reservations. There was the Forced sterilization of Native American Indian women through the 1970's.
If I dig some more I can find a lot more I bet. So don't go saying the US "runs a pretty tight ship".
Falcon
Maybe I'm being ridiculous, but I'd be more comfortable with the federal government reading my mail than Google.
You are ridiculous. One, you can choose to use or not use Gmail. Two governments have killed more people than any business. That I know of the business that has caused the most deaths was Union Carbide, the Bhopal Disaster. An estimated 15,000 people were killed during and after the spill. 15,000, now how many people have governments killed? In the 1994 Rwandan genocide an estimated 800,000 were murdered. After Indonesia invaded East Timor, with the support of President Ford and Henry Kissinger, an estimated 200,000 or 1/3 of the East Timor population was massacred. Many, many more were killed by the NAZIs, the Soviet Union, and Mao in China. Besides the above mentioned East Timor massacre, the US has a lot more blood on it's hands.
Quite simply government has much more power and is more dangerous than any business.
Falcon
servers, not a small business, or a large enterprise, or a non-profit
Warrants are required for these to be searched.
How many people do you know that still use the Email service that comes with their ISP?
Almost everybody I know. Some use free services like Yahoo!, I do myself, but they also use the email provided by their ISP.
Falcon
The Post-9/11 G.I. bill (which went into effect around 2008, same time I was leaving the military) - no longer requires soldiers to have money deducted from their pay.
My brother-in-law told me that Obama changed the GI Bill once he was in office. Searching I saw the change you brought up. But unfortunately I didn't find any changes where I was covered. After being disabled I've been trying to get back to college but haven't found any financial assistance.
Falcon
I still don't know why you're comparing you or me to anyone else.
Because your problems are nothing compared to other people's problems. I stated that in my first post.
Falcon
You could be completely financially responsible. You could build up a surplus to maintain to present lifestyle for 6 months without earning a wage.
It's 12 months, one year now.
You could be called for jury service for a major case, you say to the judge "yes, I can afford to sit on a 4-month trial".
The trial might go over by a few months, taking 6 in total - you've expended your entire surplus, but that's ok because you're going back to work.
Both tymes I was called for jury I was paid $10 a day. No it's not much but say 4 months is 9 weeks or 63 days, that's $630. Of course it was $10 went I went but that was more than 15 years ago, I would not be surprised if the pay is more than $50 now.
You're in an at-will state, your job disappears a week after you return, you no longer have a surplus to life off because you spent it on living while serving on a jury.
I bet even in at-will states, I lived in one when I was called, employers still have to hold your job for you.
In a lot of cases serving on a jury is a pretty unpleasant experience, given the people and evidence with which you have to deal. Surely that's enough to ask of people serving society, without asking them to bear more than their share of the financial costs as well
So you want to raise taxes then? If not then how are jurors paid? Require defendants to pay? Then only the wealthy could afford a trial.
Falcon
The G.I. Bill is a Wonderful thing, and already exists.
That's the old GI Bill which ended in 1975. My older sister had educational benefits under it. I on the other had went into the military in 1981 and was covered under the Veterans Educational Assistance Program. Under that program I had part of my pay deducted and for every dollar so deducted the military contributed $2. I had to have money deducted from my pay but that was not required under the old GI Bill.
Falcon
I also think you might consider extending some empathy for people who are also in an unfortunate situation.
I started my post with "I'm sorry about your financial difficulties". What I did not say in that post, but have in others, is that I have also helped those who were worse off than I was and am now. I used to work with disabled people, which I loved doing I just hate needing help. I took an American Sign Language, ASL, class to communicate with the hearing impaired in college. And a friend broke his back and is bound to a scooter now, at least I can walk and have all my body parts.
Falcon
Why the hell does that invalidate my problems?
I didn't say your problems were invalid, but they are insignificant to the problems other have. Such as pointed out by your following:
There are starving children in Africa, you know.
I know. And if you read some of my previous posts on US farm subsidies, I blame at least some of the starving on the US government as well as other first world nations.
Actually if I did not garden myself I would have starved this past summer. I grew enough greens, that is kale, lettuce, and mustard to have a plate of salad every day for a month. I also canned kale and if I hadn't already eaten it I'd have canned mustard too. At the end of summer I bought tomatoes in bulk from a farmers market at lower prices then I used them to make and can salsa, tomato juice, and tomato sauce. With cucumbers and onions I made and canned pickles and relishes. I made more sauce with rhubarb and strawberries as well as tomatoes for canning. I also canned soups, carrot soup and a soup with other roots. Altogether I cooked and canned enough for me to eat everyday during the winter, some I bought in bulk and some I grew myself.
If I have access to space with enough sun for gardening I can grow at least some of my own food, and I garden every year I have the opportunity. I have gathered food in the wild, in forests, in swamps, and in the Everglades. I've spent weeks camping in the Alaskan winter and the Panama summer. I have also fished and hunted in those wild places. So I can survive on my own. Can you?
Falcon
This is going to be a very tough issue for the courts to resolve
It doesn't need to be, just pass a law allowing Fully Informed Juries. Even better, cut court cases by bringing back jury nullification.
Falcon
If I miss two week's pay in one go, I will lose my home and my car. It will ruin my life.
Life hasn't been good to you lately? I'm sorry about your financial difficulties but wait until you've been disabled in an accident then see how life treats you. I am in that boat and for the past 14 years my life has been a living hell. I have not worked in that tyme. My disability does not pay enough, when I get all of it. Which hasn't happened in 2 years. The only reason I have a roof over my head is because my sister owns the apartment I live in and lets me live here rent free. However that may not last long because she is having problems too, financial and from the government.
It really irritates me when others say how bad life treats them but who are fully capable. Until they are disabled there's little to complain about.
Falcon
Switzerland does this-every able-bodied male is automatically in the national army and has training for a few weeks a year. I think it's a fine idea, but in the case of the USA, I think the logistics involved would be too complicated.
I've advocated for that too. However I'd make it male and female. As for it being complicated, no it wouldn't be. We ship off those same amounts of kids to school, just extend it to military service.
Speaking of which, I'd also have it so that every year a person serves in the military they get a year of college paid for too.
Falcon
are jurors also not supposed to educate themselves about he process of law?
Sometime neither defendant, judge, nor prosecutor wants an educated jury. Other times one or two may want one but not the other parties. Actually if a potential juror knows about jury nullification if the judge does not dismiss the juror the prosecutor will ask for the dismissal. And other tymes defense will seek dismissal if the juror knows about Fully Informed Juries.
Falcon
I think the jurors should be permitted to bill the lawyers (and judge) for their time
Who's going to want to be a judge? And who's going to be able to afford lawyers?
for an hourly rate not more than twice their normal salary. It wouldn't fix the whole system, but it would help.
You're right it won't fix the system it will make it worse. Might as well have the same person be judge, jury, and executioner with multimillion dollar paychecks.
Falcon
"with some judges now confiscating all phones and computers from jurors when they enter the courtroom."
What makes me wonder is why people would bring these things in the first place.
You've never been called to show up for jury have you? I have, twice. Each tyme I had to show up at the court building 2 days. All I did all 4 days was sit there waiting to be called for questioning.
Back then there were no laptops and the mobile phones were the size of bricks. Me, I loved reading so I brought books. Today I would bring both my cellphone and my laptop.
Falcon
When did we stop talking about the United States of America? Clearly you are talking about some other country. People have lives, and jury duty can be a significant burden, especially if it goes on for weeks or months.
Yes it's true even in the USA, especially in the USA where trial by jury is guaranteed by the Bill of Rights. Jury duty is a duty for every citizen.
I would also add that, in the country with the highest prison population (both total and per capita), perhaps we just have too many acts being criminalized
Ah, we agree on something. I stated upthread I was notified twice to show up for jury duty. Though I wasn't picked either tyme I was hoping to be picked to serve on a jury for a victimless offense. Had I been picked I would have used the power of jury nullification to send the message a law was bad and I was overruling the politicians who enacted it.
Falcon
No one on the jury should worry if they will be able to put food on the table because they have to help justice.
Now I don't know but I'd think judges have the discretion to dismiss potential jurors due to financial hardship. I believe jury duty is a duty every citizen should participate in however I also am willing to make arraignments for those it would be a hardship for.
Falcon
you're about to be judged by 12 people not smart enough to get out of jury duty.
Except it's not true. My presence was requested in court for jury selection twice. If I had been picked, I was hoping I would be, chances are good the defendant would have liked me being on the jury. That is because if I think that a law that exists should not I would use jury nullification to overturn said law. For instance I not only disagree with drug laws and prohibition but I would vote innocent if someone were charged with drug possession, distribution, or sells. The same with prostitution.
Falcon
You are free to use that as a reason that you can't serve on the jury.
The judge is free to accept that reason or not, and some actually might.
The fastest and easiest to get dismissed from jury duty, even when you don't want to be, is to say you believe in jury nullification and Fully Informed Juries.
I was notified twice I had to appear for jury selection. Both tymes I was hoping I'd be picked to serve on a jury involving possession or distribution of drugs or another victimless crime so I could use jury nullification and send a signal these types of laws restrict liberty. Unfortunately both tymes for 2 days I sat around waiting to be called for questioning without being called.
Falcon
So uh, like a bank?
Or like other financial institutions and businesses. There are businesses other than banks that issue credit cards. For instance a number of oil companies issue them. Such as Gulf Oil, Shell, Marathon, and Sinclair. My first two credit cards were store cards, issued by the stores. I have never had a credit card issued by my bank, I haven't even applied for one there. Actually after congress passed and Obama signed new banking regulations my bank raised it's fees. My account originally was free but after those new regulations a new $10 per month fee was added. So I plan on moving my account to a credit union. Now there I probably will pay for a new credit card, credit unions usually have lower interest rates. Sam's Club, which most definitely is not a bank issues credit cards, and as a member I may apply for one. If so I'll apply for Sam's Discover card, Discover cards are the only credit cards Sam's accepts. And here is Sam's credit card website, both consumer and business accounts.
Falcon
No, it's not a lie.
If it's not a lie then you lied when you said there was no competition. Is there is is there not competition for iPhones, iPods, and iPads?
Well, since you evidently can't figure it out: (1) bad software engineering doesn't necessarily translate into more crashes or reinstalls, and (2) maybe the competitors are using bad software engineering practices too.
Weaseling out, or trolling.
Falcon
If so that is only because they haven't read the information. It's there for them to read. In other words, they ignored it.
Falcon