If you buy an investment and it actually does return money, you get taxed on that even though the company that issued the bond or stock pays revenue and profit taxes or that you're paying property taxes on real estate investmenats.
So, people who work for a living pays an income tax but those who collect dividends and interest on stocks and bonds pay none?
This really only scratches the surface. If everything was a simple, one-step tax, people would be horrified at the amount they pay.
Actually if the federal government stopped doing extra-constitutional things then taxes wouldn't need to be so high. This year Tax Freedom Day was 23 April, that means it took 3 months to pay this year's taxes.
The commerce clause certainly prevents a state from imposing tariffs on imports from other states.
Then maybe the solution is something like a VAT. A flat tax applied to all online purchases that gets turned back to the recipients state.
Which state will get the money? The state the business is in? The one the buyer is in? Or the ones, there may be more than one state, where the warehouse(s) is(are) located? And if I order presents online, say I place an order with Amazon and I have one item sent to one state, another item sent to another state, and a third item sent a third state?
There's been a big issue with rising property taxes in Florida. Part of it is due to some counties overspending on their budgets (and thus raising the tax rate), the other part was the rising cost in home values. There's an article about the crisis here
Thanks for the link. I noticed it funding education was part of the problem. I was in student government in college when the lottery came up. At first I supported the lottery but after reading the bill I came out against it. The lottery was meant to supplement education but the bill authorizing Lotto didn't guaranty the lottery money would go to supplementing education.
So the tax rates being tied to (at the time) rising property values, compounded with rising hurricane insurance premiums have sadly made things a bit tougher in Fl.
While hurricane insurance has increased, I think that's because builders are building, and buyers buying, where buildings shouldn't be built or are built inappropriately. For instance you don't bulldoze wetlands then hope houses built there won't get flooded. Nor do you build on the beach and hope sand won't be washed away. Or build a seawall and not have the same happen.
People move there then they want government to take care of them. I used to crack up when I read an article about how someone who had recently bought a new home in a new development freaked out when they found an alligator in their swimming pool. Many move there because "nature is so beautiful" but get upset when nature gets on their property.
Buying online probably is not tax free. It may be sales tax free but it's not tax free. First the business pays income and property tax itself, plus all of the taxes related to employment. The business also pays for shipments, well some retailers include the cost of shipping so the buyer can see it, and shippers pay an assortment of taxes.
It's more efficient to operate light rail in a city, obviously. You need enough people close enough to the tracks and stations to make it worthwhile.
You also need people willing to use light rail but outside of a city like Chicago how many will use light rail? Actually I think one way to increase usage of rail is by allowing people to drive their car up onto the train then drive off it when they reach their destination. People could have it both ways, have their own vehicle and use public transportation.
It's less efficient to drive a car. When I say "20 minutes by car", I might mean 15 or 20 miles in downstate Illinois or 3 to 5 miles in Chicago. I know people who work from 5 or 6 am to 2 or 3 pm instead of 8 to 5 because doing so cuts their commute from 2 hours to 45 minutes.
As you say, it is more tyme efficient to drive at tymes other than rushhour. Mass transit can also take a lot longer to get where you're going to as well, and cost more. I once took a bus, mass transit, someplace it takes me less than 20 minutes to drive to, how long did it take riding the bus? About an hour. At $4 a gallon for gas, the round trip cost driving is about $4. Round trip bus tickets cost me $4.50.
what is missing is your compassion for those who are worse off than yourself.
You can have compassion and still not want to force others, when force is used it's not compassion. That's what being free is about, supporting what you want to support.
Someone who can't afford healthcare or food needs your dollar more than you need it to visit Starbuck's for the 10th time this week.
Health care and medicine is expensive because there is no free market in it. The added competition from a free market would lower medical and health care costs.
I work in NYS but a neighboring state is less than fifteen miles from work. When I save enough $$$ to buy a house - at my age which will be the house I retire in - I will NOT be buying in NYS.
Try Florida, unless you're going to freak out when a hurricane comes along, it's a good state to retire to. There's no income tax, though there is a tax on non-real property such as stocks. Otherwise the only taxes are property tax and a sales tax of 4.5%, I believe that that's what it was when I lived there but I moved 10 years ago.
Me, I've thought about moving to New Hampshire and joining the Free State Project.
The difference between Ike and LBJ is that, as you pointed out, in Ike's Vietnam, the Vietnamese did the fighting, but in LBJ's Vietnam, it was the United States.
Before he was assassinated Kennendy had sent enough officers to South Vietnam so there were 11,300. Then he announced he would pull out 1,000, but he was killed before he did. While not enough to send into combat I'd think there were more than enough to train Vietnamese. Before you, or someone else, says it no I'm not an expert on training. I do have experience in it though. While in the US Army I helped train OCS, Officer Cadet School, cadets and the Army Rangers.
I mean, saying Ike invaded Vietnam is like saying that Bill Clinton invaded Iraq first. It's just a gross distortion of history.
First when did I say Bill Clinton was the first to send troops to deal with Saddam? Bush Sr sent people before Clinton was president. The First Gulf War was in 1990/01. Clinton was elected in 1992. I guess you may be right though about Ike, it was Truman who sent in the first troops to Viet Nam.
He favored policies like NAFTA, and telecomm and financial services deregulation, that benefited the interests of the investment class over those of workers and consumers.
Everyone, including workers and consumers, should also be investors. People should plan and invest for retirement if nothing else. Social Security is only supposed to be a safety net.
Clinton was willing to institutionalize bigotry with his "don't ask don't tell" bullshit, willing to implement capital punishment, willing to bomb the shit out of other nations to advance American interests, and to continue Nixon's "War on Drugs" (even as he admitted to his own drug use).
Agreed but those aren't strictly conservative positions. Also Nixon didn't start the "War on Drug", he only gave it a boost. The war on hemp, aka marijuana, was started in FDR's administration with the passage of the Marijuana Tax Act of 1937. Opening up trade, the way it was done, is neoliberal and part of the Washington Consensus. And while they say it represents a "transfer control of the economy from state to the private sector" it was anything but that.
This is the legacy that Gore would have apparently continued; little wonder many liberals or progressives found the possibility less than inspiring and stayed home or voted for Nader.
I am a liberal, Classical Liberal, and though I wanted to vote for another candidate in 2000 because the election polls were so close I checked off Gore, I thought Gore was bad but not as bad as Bush.
Actually, no they didn't - no one is forced to eat GE crops, so at best you have a quibble.
Yes they do. Unlike what Monsanto said, and you fell for, GE crops do cross pollinate with non GE crops as well as wild relatives. Scientific studies have found this to be true, Parameters Affecting Gene Flow in Oilseed Rape. And because GE crops cross pollinates with wild relatives superweeds are created. With widespread use of GE seeds even organic farmers can't prevent cross pollination from happening. And once contaminated a crop is always contaminated. Unless trouble to remove the foreign genes is taken. Why in the world should someone who did nothing to make their crop GE be the ones to pay for it? Monsanto won't pay. Actually Monsanto will force a non GE crop farmer to pay if GE genes are found in the crop. Monsanto did that when they found Percy Schmeiser's farm was contaminated with Monsanto's patented genes.
Oh, you mean all that respect LBJ earned when he invaded Viet Nam?
It was Ike, Eisenhower, who "invaded" Viet Nam. LBJ escalated Viet Nam after Kennedy did though. After the French and South and North Viet Nam came to an agreement to hold an election on whether the north and south would reunite Ike sent Colonel Edward Lansdale, a CIA operative, to South Viet Nam to arm, gather, and train Vietnamese who opposed the voting and reunification.
The world may not like that Bush invaded Iraq, but I guarantee you that they respect Bush more for staying and trying to turn that situation around, then they will Obama, who plans on walking out.
It's not just Obama that wants Americans to leave Iraq, the Iraqis want them to leave as well.
A trillion dollars a year? If you are trying to make points with numbers and there is no question it is costing a lot, you should probably use the right numbers. The Iraq war has cost a little over $500 billion to date, over five years
You may want to check your facts. A quick search returned a "Washington Post" article saying "The Iraq War Will Cost Us $3 Trillion, and Much More". That's less than GP's trillion dollars a year but much more than your "little over $500 billion to date". "therawstory" has a breakdown of the costs.
I've said several tymes, including in this thread, that this year I'm voting for Bob Barr. However that's not entirely correct, if Jesse Ventura runs I'll vote for him instead.
I am not knocking her, she is smart, touch and would have been a good choice.
As I said before, before Obama voted to give telcom businesses immunity, between Obama, McCain, and Clinton I'd vote for Obama but between McCain and Clinton I'd vote for McCain. I'm concerned about McCain but Clinton scares me. Now I'd vote, or not vote at all, for McCain over Obama. However this election I'm voting for Bob Barr.
No, but he has way more experience in foreign relations, economic policies, national security, campaign finance reform, than Obama.
McCain has little to no experience with economic policy. Other than fighting and being a POW, which I highly respect him for, I don't see what foreign relations experience he has either. Maybe I'm missing something. For national security he wants a police state where government can spy on almost if not everyone. Lastly his campaign finance reform was unconstitutional, the US Supreme Court upheld parts but not all of the McCain-Feingold bill or Bipartisan Campaign Reform Act.
On Obama:
He turned his back on his supporters and flip-flopped by voting for a bill that granted telecommunications companies immunity.
Before the vote I supported Obama as the Democrat presidential candidate but not afterwards. His pick of Biden as his running mate makes it worse. I'm glad I can vote for Bob Barr.
Personally I think that the government of the US has been overdoing it's way after 9/11
The US government has been overdoing it since before 911. For much of the US's history it has overdone it.
It's very easy for a state to grow into a police state. Just be aware about the laptop searches and a lot of other things that will affect many of us. It's called democracy
If it were a democracy people would have demanded these searches, but they didn't. Bush's admin unilaterally decided to have them.
So even if Obama has his faults he also have the advantage of being flexible and relatively unblemished by scandals. Experience is something you build by time, but by selecting Joe Biden he will have someone that's really experienced behind him.
As I said before, I originally supported Obama as the Democrat candidate for president. But his flip-flop on, and siding with big business, telco immunity I couldn't. Now that he's picked Biden as his VP I now have to oppose him. If I didn't have someone else to vote for I'd either not vote or vote for McCain. It's a good thing I can, and will, vote for Bob Barr.
As for Hillary Clinton, I suspect that she can do a good work in another prominent position, like secretary of state.
The Swiftboaters were not sued for libel, hence they were telling the truth.
You're lying. Are you going to sue me or am I telling the truth? Simply because a person isn't sued for libel does not mean they are telling the truth. The "National Enquirer" would be out of business if they were sued as many tymes as they have been called liars.
Don't forget the 3000 Americans that have died in the towers.
And exactly how many Iraqis were involved with 911? Almost every hijacker was Saudi, did the US invade Saudi Arabia? Fact is is lies were told to the world to justify the invasion of Iraq.
Falcon
Oh, and don't get the idea I'm a Democrat either because I'm not.
While I agree with the rest pretty much, I disagree New Orleans is submerged because of Bush. New Orleans was subsiding before Hurricane Katrina. New Orleans is naturally subsiding, sinking, period. And will continue. A city should not be built in such a place. They didn't know it when it was first built but we know it now. Instead of simply rebuilding New Orleans it should be moved to higher ground away from land that is subsiding. Unfortunately much of the Gulf Coast around the Mississippi Delta is subsiding, especially the bayou.
Slashdot Mirror
If you buy an investment and it actually does return money, you get taxed on that even though the company that issued the bond or stock pays revenue and profit taxes or that you're paying property taxes on real estate investmenats.
So, people who work for a living pays an income tax but those who collect dividends and interest on stocks and bonds pay none?
This really only scratches the surface. If everything was a simple, one-step tax, people would be horrified at the amount they pay.
Actually if the federal government stopped doing extra-constitutional things then taxes wouldn't need to be so high. This year Tax Freedom Day was 23 April, that means it took 3 months to pay this year's taxes.
Falcon
The commerce clause certainly prevents a state from imposing tariffs on imports from other states.
Then maybe the solution is something like a VAT. A flat tax applied to all online purchases that gets turned back to the recipients state.
Which state will get the money? The state the business is in? The one the buyer is in? Or the ones, there may be more than one state, where the warehouse(s) is(are) located? And if I order presents online, say I place an order with Amazon and I have one item sent to one state, another item sent to another state, and a third item sent a third state?
Falcon
They expect retailers to collect the tax so it is a tax on commerce.
It is a state imposing a tax on its citizens...
A use tax they are demanding retailers collect.
which is well within the constitution.
This creates more paperwork and expense for the retailer so it is a the breach of interstate commerce clause.
You may not agree but that's the way I see it.
Falcon
Ah, you moved to the Free State Project state.
Falcon
There's been a big issue with rising property taxes in Florida. Part of it is due to some counties overspending on their budgets (and thus raising the tax rate), the other part was the rising cost in home values. There's an article about the crisis here
Thanks for the link. I noticed it funding education was part of the problem. I was in student government in college when the lottery came up. At first I supported the lottery but after reading the bill I came out against it. The lottery was meant to supplement education but the bill authorizing Lotto didn't guaranty the lottery money would go to supplementing education.
So the tax rates being tied to (at the time) rising property values, compounded with rising hurricane insurance premiums have sadly made things a bit tougher in Fl.
While hurricane insurance has increased, I think that's because builders are building, and buyers buying, where buildings shouldn't be built or are built inappropriately. For instance you don't bulldoze wetlands then hope houses built there won't get flooded. Nor do you build on the beach and hope sand won't be washed away. Or build a seawall and not have the same happen.
People move there then they want government to take care of them. I used to crack up when I read an article about how someone who had recently bought a new home in a new development freaked out when they found an alligator in their swimming pool. Many move there because "nature is so beautiful" but get upset when nature gets on their property.
Falcon
Buying online probably is not tax free. It may be sales tax free but it's not tax free. First the business pays income and property tax itself, plus all of the taxes related to employment. The business also pays for shipments, well some retailers include the cost of shipping so the buyer can see it, and shippers pay an assortment of taxes.
Falcon
It's more efficient to operate light rail in a city, obviously. You need enough people close enough to the tracks and stations to make it worthwhile.
You also need people willing to use light rail but outside of a city like Chicago how many will use light rail? Actually I think one way to increase usage of rail is by allowing people to drive their car up onto the train then drive off it when they reach their destination. People could have it both ways, have their own vehicle and use public transportation.
It's less efficient to drive a car. When I say "20 minutes by car", I might mean 15 or 20 miles in downstate Illinois or 3 to 5 miles in Chicago. I know people who work from 5 or 6 am to 2 or 3 pm instead of 8 to 5 because doing so cuts their commute from 2 hours to 45 minutes.
As you say, it is more tyme efficient to drive at tymes other than rushhour. Mass transit can also take a lot longer to get where you're going to as well, and cost more. I once took a bus, mass transit, someplace it takes me less than 20 minutes to drive to, how long did it take riding the bus? About an hour. At $4 a gallon for gas, the round trip cost driving is about $4. Round trip bus tickets cost me $4.50.
Falcon
what is missing is your compassion for those who are worse off than yourself.
You can have compassion and still not want to force others, when force is used it's not compassion. That's what being free is about, supporting what you want to support.
Someone who can't afford healthcare or food needs your dollar more than you need it to visit Starbuck's for the 10th time this week.
Health care and medicine is expensive because there is no free market in it. The added competition from a free market would lower medical and health care costs.
Falcon
I work in NYS but a neighboring state is less than fifteen miles from work. When I save enough $$$ to buy a house - at my age which will be the house I retire in - I will NOT be buying in NYS.
Try Florida, unless you're going to freak out when a hurricane comes along, it's a good state to retire to. There's no income tax, though there is a tax on non-real property such as stocks. Otherwise the only taxes are property tax and a sales tax of 4.5%, I believe that that's what it was when I lived there but I moved 10 years ago.
Me, I've thought about moving to New Hampshire and joining the Free State Project.
Falcon
The difference between Ike and LBJ is that, as you pointed out, in Ike's Vietnam, the Vietnamese did the fighting, but in LBJ's Vietnam, it was the United States.
Before he was assassinated Kennendy had sent enough officers to South Vietnam so there were 11,300. Then he announced he would pull out 1,000, but he was killed before he did. While not enough to send into combat I'd think there were more than enough to train Vietnamese. Before you, or someone else, says it no I'm not an expert on training. I do have experience in it though. While in the US Army I helped train OCS, Officer Cadet School, cadets and the Army Rangers.
I mean, saying Ike invaded Vietnam is like saying that Bill Clinton invaded Iraq first. It's just a gross distortion of history.
First when did I say Bill Clinton was the first to send troops to deal with Saddam? Bush Sr sent people before Clinton was president. The First Gulf War was in 1990/01. Clinton was elected in 1992. I guess you may be right though about Ike, it was Truman who sent in the first troops to Viet Nam.
Falcon
He favored policies like NAFTA, and telecomm and financial services deregulation, that benefited the interests of the investment class over those of workers and consumers.
Everyone, including workers and consumers, should also be investors. People should plan and invest for retirement if nothing else. Social Security is only supposed to be a safety net.
Clinton was willing to institutionalize bigotry with his "don't ask don't tell" bullshit, willing to implement capital punishment, willing to bomb the shit out of other nations to advance American interests, and to continue Nixon's "War on Drugs" (even as he admitted to his own drug use).
Agreed but those aren't strictly conservative positions. Also Nixon didn't start the "War on Drug", he only gave it a boost. The war on hemp, aka marijuana, was started in FDR's administration with the passage of the Marijuana Tax Act of 1937. Opening up trade, the way it was done, is neoliberal and part of the Washington Consensus. And while they say it represents a "transfer control of the economy from state to the private sector" it was anything but that.
This is the legacy that Gore would have apparently continued; little wonder many liberals or progressives found the possibility less than inspiring and stayed home or voted for Nader.
I am a liberal, Classical Liberal, and though I wanted to vote for another candidate in 2000 because the election polls were so close I checked off Gore, I thought Gore was bad but not as bad as Bush.
Falcon
Actually, no they didn't - no one is forced to eat GE crops, so at best you have a quibble.
Yes they do. Unlike what Monsanto said, and you fell for, GE crops do cross pollinate with non GE crops as well as wild relatives. Scientific studies have found this to be true, Parameters Affecting Gene Flow in Oilseed Rape. And because GE crops cross pollinates with wild relatives superweeds are created. With widespread use of GE seeds even organic farmers can't prevent cross pollination from happening. And once contaminated a crop is always contaminated. Unless trouble to remove the foreign genes is taken. Why in the world should someone who did nothing to make their crop GE be the ones to pay for it? Monsanto won't pay. Actually Monsanto will force a non GE crop farmer to pay if GE genes are found in the crop. Monsanto did that when they found Percy Schmeiser's farm was contaminated with Monsanto's patented genes.
Falcon
Oh, you mean all that respect LBJ earned when he invaded Viet Nam?
It was Ike, Eisenhower, who "invaded" Viet Nam. LBJ escalated Viet Nam after Kennedy did though. After the French and South and North Viet Nam came to an agreement to hold an election on whether the north and south would reunite Ike sent Colonel Edward Lansdale, a CIA operative, to South Viet Nam to arm, gather, and train Vietnamese who opposed the voting and reunification.
The world may not like that Bush invaded Iraq, but I guarantee you that they respect Bush more for staying and trying to turn that situation around, then they will Obama, who plans on walking out.
It's not just Obama that wants Americans to leave Iraq, the Iraqis want them to leave as well.
Falcon
A trillion dollars a year? If you are trying to make points with numbers and there is no question it is costing a lot, you should probably use the right numbers. The Iraq war has cost a little over $500 billion to date, over five years
You may want to check your facts. A quick search returned a "Washington Post" article saying "The Iraq War Will Cost Us $3 Trillion, and Much More". That's less than GP's trillion dollars a year but much more than your "little over $500 billion to date". "therawstory" has a breakdown of the costs.
Falcon
I've said several tymes, including in this thread, that this year I'm voting for Bob Barr. However that's not entirely correct, if Jesse Ventura runs I'll vote for him instead.
Falcon
Actually Obama wants to cut taxes. Here's OnTheIssue's webpage on Obama's Tax Reform.
Having said that, I still can't support Obama. This election Bob Barr will more than likely get my vote.
Falcon
I am not knocking her, she is smart, touch and would have been a good choice.
As I said before, before Obama voted to give telcom businesses immunity, between Obama, McCain, and Clinton I'd vote for Obama but between McCain and Clinton I'd vote for McCain. I'm concerned about McCain but Clinton scares me. Now I'd vote, or not vote at all, for McCain over Obama. However this election I'm voting for Bob Barr.
Falcon
No, but he has way more experience in foreign relations, economic policies, national security, campaign finance reform, than Obama.
McCain has little to no experience with economic policy. Other than fighting and being a POW, which I highly respect him for, I don't see what foreign relations experience he has either. Maybe I'm missing something. For national security he wants a police state where government can spy on almost if not everyone. Lastly his campaign finance reform was unconstitutional, the US Supreme Court upheld parts but not all of the McCain-Feingold bill or Bipartisan Campaign Reform Act.
On Obama:
He turned his back on his supporters and flip-flopped by voting for a bill that granted telecommunications companies immunity.
Before the vote I supported Obama as the Democrat presidential candidate but not afterwards. His pick of Biden as his running mate makes it worse. I'm glad I can vote for Bob Barr.
Falcon
Personally I think that the government of the US has been overdoing it's way after 9/11
The US government has been overdoing it since before 911. For much of the US's history it has overdone it.
It's very easy for a state to grow into a police state. Just be aware about the laptop searches and a lot of other things that will affect many of us. It's called democracy
If it were a democracy people would have demanded these searches, but they didn't. Bush's admin unilaterally decided to have them.
So even if Obama has his faults he also have the advantage of being flexible and relatively unblemished by scandals. Experience is something you build by time, but by selecting Joe Biden he will have someone that's really experienced behind him.
As I said before, I originally supported Obama as the Democrat candidate for president. But his flip-flop on, and siding with big business, telco immunity I couldn't. Now that he's picked Biden as his VP I now have to oppose him. If I didn't have someone else to vote for I'd either not vote or vote for McCain. It's a good thing I can, and will, vote for Bob Barr.
As for Hillary Clinton, I suspect that she can do a good work in another prominent position, like secretary of state.
Hillary really scares me.
Falcon
I suppose Reagan, and Clinton for that matter, were fully experienced and ready to take the helm from the moment they took office.
Both Reagan and Clinton were state governors before becoming president. So yea, they did have some experience.
Falcon
Got rich in a business subsidized by taxpayers Bush: oil & gas, baseball stadiums; Gore: agribusiness
Gore's family also made money from oil. Al's father, Senator Al Gore Sr worked for and owned shares in Oxidential Petroleum.
Falcon
They didn't have anything against Gore remotely close to Obama's cave on telecom immunity.
Actually many did. Gore supports Genetic Engineering and many environmentalists oppose GE.
Falcon
The Democrats need to stop being a conservative party
Are you changing the meaning of "conservative"? What is your definition? Does it have anything to do with socialism?
Falcon
The Swiftboaters were not sued for libel, hence they were telling the truth.
You're lying. Are you going to sue me or am I telling the truth? Simply because a person isn't sued for libel does not mean they are telling the truth. The "National Enquirer" would be out of business if they were sued as many tymes as they have been called liars.
Don't forget the 3000 Americans that have died in the towers.
And exactly how many Iraqis were involved with 911? Almost every hijacker was Saudi, did the US invade Saudi Arabia? Fact is is lies were told to the world to justify the invasion of Iraq.
Falcon
Oh, and don't get the idea I'm a Democrat either because I'm not.
While I agree with the rest pretty much, I disagree New Orleans is submerged because of Bush. New Orleans was subsiding before Hurricane Katrina. New Orleans is naturally subsiding, sinking, period. And will continue. A city should not be built in such a place. They didn't know it when it was first built but we know it now. Instead of simply rebuilding New Orleans it should be moved to higher ground away from land that is subsiding. Unfortunately much of the Gulf Coast around the Mississippi Delta is subsiding, especially the bayou.
Falcon