Right, but why rely upon ethos for evaluating the correctness of an article? Are we really going to jump into the fallacy of appeal to authority so quickly?
If I know someone know about the subject I know it's probably will be more correct than if I know nothing about the author. As for falling for authority, I've always questioned authority. Actually when I was in the military that got me into a lot of trouble.
But in a free market without government regulation or goverment sponsored health care programs providers would be free to locate clinics where they wished.
That was my point.
They would not build cheap clinics in blue collar neighborhoods, they would maximize revenue and only service rich neighborhoods.
It doesn't need to be a for profit business, nonprofits could also open walk in clinics. Here's a list of some nonprofit walk in clinics in Boston, well free clinics. Or a coop. Or a number of other entities. If it were not expensive to open a clinic people would open one in poor areas just as people open soup kitchens there. Actually it just hit me but a facility that feeds as well gives people medical care could be opened. Add in an employment center.
You cant let the market decide and provide high quality care to all citizens because profit maximizing businesses will seek to avoid caring for those that cannot pay.
Perhaps you missed it where I said insurance policy issuers could be made to pay into a fund for those who can not get health care coverage, whether because they can't afford it or because of a preexisting condition. I admit I didn't say it in the post you replied to but here's one where I did say it.
I did not throw in system maintenance costs, which probably exist but I can't make an educated guess as to what they'd be.
Basic system maintenance is basically spraying off the panels to keep objects like leafs off. the rest of the components don't need much maintenance. Where maintenance is an issue is with batteries, which should only be used if the system is Off The Grid. Now, if you want you can record data on the performance of the system, like how much electricity it is producing. TFA's writer does this through the installer's system over the net. If you wanted do you could have data transmitted to your computer though. With this data you can optimize the system.
Also, due to time value of money, the increase in house value in 30 years would have to be quite large in order to equal the up-front payment.
Not if the cost is rolled into the mortgage, interest on the mortgage of a primary residence, the home you live in, is tax deductible. And more and more lenders are taking steps to allow people to install alternative energy systems like solar and wind. In some cases they lower interest or allow borrowers to borrow more. Mortgage companies realize such systems reduce living expenses and so may be willing to do these. The first page of results for googling solar mortgage shows two mortgage lenders who finance solar systems. Heck, one of the results, "The Mortgage Crisis Delivers a Hit to Solar Firms" goes over how the solar industry is affected by the mortgage crisis.
Net of all of this discussion: it still isn't a good decision based solely on financial terms unless the amount it adds to house value in the near-term is large (especially considering the high variability of some of the key cost savings).
Oh, I agree. Installing a solar energy system IS NOT good if you want a short term payoff, it's only good for the longer term financially. Then again most home buyers don't flip houses, buy a house then sale it again after a short period, say after making some improvements. There's no reason to for most people though, there are only three or four reasons to sell your home. Your first one is your starter home where you and your spouse, or significant other, live. You sell it and buy a bigger home when your family grows, then sell that one and buy a smaller one when the children have left. Of course if you move away you'll sale your old home and buy a new one where you move to.
I just did some math on this using a 7% investment opportunity cost (after inflation), and for my situation, it would not pay for itself after 30 years (even assuming that it adds $20,000 to the value of the house when sold in 30 years). The NPV of the project is negative. The social value is potentially positive though.
And did you add in the possibility of electricity doubling in price in 4 years? The price of oil should be a hint. And yes, the price of oil does effect the price of electricity. Natural gas is used to generate electricity but as oil prices go up the price more natural gas will be used to fuel vehicles. This will cause electric costs to go up, power generators will have to compeat with vehicles and thus pay more for fuel.
The owner of the system himself said he estimated a payback period, when savings from reduced bills equals the cost of the system, of 9 years. If electrical bills rise faster the payback period will be shorter. And it's likely the increase in house value will be more than the cost of the system in 30 years.
And I like the fact that I'm riding higher and can see around me better, which actually increases my safety margin for everyone else, at least from the standpoint of being able to see.
You riding high does not make it safer for others. Like the GP said when I drive, a 2000 Saturn that gets 30 mpg that I bought new but have not put 45,000 miles on yet, I try to watch the traffic in front of me. By looking through their windshield and by looking on their side. However wide vehicles, whether a SUV or not, and high passenger seats makes it difficult if not impossible to see how the traffic is ahead of me.
Cars are incredibly dangerous, and you have to treat them that way.
Especially when the idiot driver is not paying attention to traffic while talking on the cellphone.
smaller cars are more dangerous for motorcycles in a collision (and you can certainly see around motorcycles easier than a car). Should we frown on everyone who doesn't drive a motorcycle? And it's not fair that motorcycles are heavier than bicycles.
The past few weeks I've been seriously thinking about getting a motorcycle. I'd use it for getting from place to place and use the car when I go shopping. I don't know if I could afford the insurance though.
Heck, I was just considering what would happen if you took a straight electric dryer and instead of just exhausting the hot air outside if you used a heatpump (think dehumidifier or window size AC unit) to move that heat(very efficiently) to the incoming air before using direct electric heat to warm it up. You'd probably need to add a line to a drain, and a pump to empty out the condensate, but most dryers are located next to washing machines, and they have a drain.
I read an article where the author describes doing this. Normally the dryer vents outdoors but during the winter he has it vent indoors. He put a nylon stocking on the end of the hose to catch the fuss from the clothes being dried. The dryer is in the basement as since heat rises it helps heat the house. Another way to do it is to have the air vent through a heat exchanger, the warm air is used to heat incoming air.
Value of the addon != Increase in house price. The new owner has to want (and be willing and able to pay for) the solar augmentation. It might even be worthless to the new owner, who's not willing to deal with the maintenance.
Then he doesn't sale to someone who doesn't want it, others do want it and will pay more for it. Now who do you sale to, the person who is willing to pay more or the one who isn't? Of course in a housing market like we're in now, with the number of foreclosures and such, it may be well neigh impossible to find a buyer willing to pay more. But in 15 or 20 years there may be a boom again, or simply better economics.
Plus, there's depreciation, replacement cost for the panels and other materials, and so on. If he breaks even on this, either through sale or plain old energy generation, I'll be amazed.
With the capital costs rolled into the mortgage there will be a tax deduction. And the equipment can have a warranty of 20 years or more. Using 14 years as the payback period, which is the average payback period I've found online, he'd have 6 years of "free" energy before he had to replace any equipment.
You pay more than that, but the rest is confiscated as taxes.
No, he doesn't. He pays precisely that much for all of the things he listed, which are additions to the tax-funded healthcare system.
No he doesn't, I included what I responded to and he says "For all that I pay around 200$ a year for the whole family." All, not just the extra coverage. He may of meant the extra coverage but that's not what he said.
The price this guy is paying for electricity is awfully high. Are all Americans gouged like this? I only pay 9 cents Canadian per kWh, and that's a flat rate.
California, where this guy lives, has one of the highest energy costs in the US. I pay 11 cents where I live and my bill comes to less than $30, sometimes less than $20, a month.
So it'll take 109 months to get back the money, or 9 years, not adjusting for inflation and investment opportunity cost.
While opportunity costs would increase the tyme to pay off the system, inflation would reduce the tyme. As energy from the power company rises in price his system won't. It's price is paid for, well except for any mortgage which itself is fixed. Unless the stupid thing was done, getting an adjustable mortgage to pay for it.
Let's say that brings it up to 12 years. Not including maintenance and repairs. It might even need complete replacement at that point.
Inverters and solar panels have warranty periods of 20 year or more. Using the typical 14 year payback period I've seen, instead of your 12 years, then there's 6 years of "free" energy. While others are paying $1000 a month on their power bills, he's paying next to nothing.
On another subject, I'm kind of glad to see someone who actually uses more electricity than I do.:)
That's where TFA author went wrong, he should have reduced his energy needs before installing the solar energy system. That'd have an immediate effect and cost less.
I think that the uninsured are much more likely to receive adequate care for a traumatic injury rather than chronic long term ailments(cancer, kidney, etc). The problem with free market healthcare is that:
The problem is that there is NO free market in health care.
When you are sick/injured and need care it is difficult to shop around in order to save money.
A free market would allow walk in clinics in neighborhoods where costs are lower than paying for an ambulance and being rushed to the ER. Like soup kitchens, someone who wants to help could support these clinics for the indigent.
Healthcare organizations don't usually make public the cost of procedures performed, required drugs, instruments, supplies, access to specialists, etc. Agreements between Insurance companies and healthcare providers further obfuscate the true cost of care.
A free market would require this info to be available. And as for hidden information, it's not just health care where it's hidden, knowledge is also hidden by car and tire manufacturers. Companies like Goodyear and Firestone regularly have court documents sealed when they settle a lawsuit over blown out tires. Now as someone who supports free trade and free markets I abhor the sealing of them. A rational decision requires knowledge which sealing hides.
a good doctor will tailor the care to the patient to provide the best outcome but this further complicates cost comparison
the real crime in the US healthcare system is the price gouging that the uninsured experience.
We have high-deductible insurance, which effectively means that we pay for all of our own healthcare. Despite that, we pay less than the uninsured because we pay for medical services at the discounted insurance rate.
Actually no, because the uninsured still receive treatment even if they don't pay, the cost is passed onto those who do pay. When hospitals and doctors don't get paid they raise the cost for those who do pay.
To me, this also shows how little it actually costs to make the system more efficient.
Yea, require insurance policy issuers to pay into a fund that covers those who can't afford insurance. They, and policy holders, are already paying this only formalizes it.
Over time, they degrade. I've heard something in-and-around the 20 year range.
Of course depending on the manufacturer and model panels have warranties of 20, 25 years. If your payback period is 14 years, which is pretty typical though for some it's 7 and others it's 20 years, you basically get free energy for 6 years.
That's about as long as most mortgages
According to this, Mortgage and Finance Tips, the traditional mortgage length for first tyme buyers is 30 years. I didn't see an average for previous owners.
it's reasonable to expect that people will start actually paying off their loans and owning a house rather than just upgrading every few years.
Since it's best to think of solar and other energy systems for the long term this, buying and holding instead of flipping, actually can help.
I'm sorry about your misfortune, but of course you were treated. Doctors and Hospitals are legally obligated to treat you in such situations, regardless of insurance.
Basically that was my point, though I didn't have insurance and couldn't afford it I got treatment.
Not much about your situation is lucky, but it is lucky you were able to sue and get a settlement. Imagine if you couldn't and were stuck with a $120,000 bill? Unfortunately that is the reality for many people.
I believe there should be a way to help those who can't afford it, and are not at fault, but I don't believe medicine should be socialized. Instead I believe a free market in health care, and we do not have one, would go a long way to providing medical care to most people. By allowing walk in clinics to be readily opened, ie get rid of a lot of the regulations that keep them from being opened, more could then be opened in neighborhoods where they are needed. Some people are joining with others to form health care coops like Group Health Coop. The increase in primary care would then decrease the number of emergency room visits, and those visits are expensive and the cost is passed on the everyone else. Then for those who still can't get health insurance there could be a safety net. Say require insurance policy issuers to pay into a fund which then covers these people. When I last had health insurance, I don't have coverage now but am waiting for some, I was denied insurance with a private provider. However where I live they require policy issuers to pay into such a fund and because I was denied coverage I was able to get some through the fund.
For all that I pay around 200$ a year for the whole family.
You pay more than that, but the rest is confiscated as taxes. Business Week" has a short article on it, and while it says France has more hospital beds and doctors per capita than the US does, it also says "France is wrestling with runaway health-care inflation" and is raising taxes because of it. Now I'm all for increasing the number of health care professionals, I believe it would lower prices for one thing as there'd be more competition. But I do not agree government should control health care and medicine. Actually I'd like to see the FDA eliminated. I'd also like to see government give people who buy private health insurance the same tax breaks employers get for offering employees insurance. Doing this would open the floodgates of people trying to get health insurance, and insurers would do what they could to lower costs so they could get as many people to sign up with them as they could.
Yea, that's what happened in Bolivia, in the city of Cochabamba. Despite a lot of gas previous governments mismanaged money and the country had to get a bailout from the IMF, International Monetary Fund or WB, World Bank. One of the conditions of the aid was that Bolivia had to privatize some things. One of those privatized was Cochabamba's water system, it was sold to Bechtel, one of the US's largest American water companies. As soon as Bechtel took over they more than doubled the price of water and the people couldn't afford it. So they took to the streets and protested, several people were shot during the demonstrations. But eventually the sale was canceled.
Queen Noor of Jordan once said the only reason Jordan would go to war with Israel was over water. And Israel diverts so much water from the River Jordan, which forms the border between the two countries, that the Dead Sea does not get enough water and is draining. This harms those who live down stream, both Jordanians and Israelis but the Bedouins in Israel bare the brunt.
Stuff like this is happening all over the world, in both Colombia and India Coca Cola has pumped so much water from wells farmers wells are running dry. In the US the Colorado River, which carved the Grand Canyon, used to empty into the Sea of Cortez but it no longer reaches the sea. Mexico also has rights to the water by treaty but they hardly ever get any. Desert cities like Los Vega and farmers now claim every drop of water. The Rio Grande River, which separates Texas from Mexico, used to empty into the Gulf of Mexico. But now about all that makes it is a trickle of water at tymes. Meanwhile, in Oregon there was some fighting over water from the Klamath River. It's all dammed up, for hydroelectric power plants and for farmers. However people, and salmon, down river haven't been getting enough water. Several years ago there was a massive kill of salmon because there wasn't enough water.
Yup, and that would be fine if we pretend that once solar is installed it is free to maintain. The most commonly ignored fact I see in the cost of solar installations is the fact that your second highest cost is the battery bank which will have to be replaced several times before he recoups his initial investment.
And where does he say he's using batteries?
Whether his actual costs ever drop below what they would have been if he had simply taken the power conservation measures and new appliances that generally go with a solar installation is another matter.
Ah, you pointed out something this guy should have done first, the first thing you do is take energy efficiency measures. You're the first person I've seen say that.
But the big whammy is a significant chunk of that 40gs is for the batteries which have to be replaced periodically.
Batteries? Where did he say he got batteries? I must have missed it. Doing an intertie system like he did there is no need for batteries. You only need them if you're Off The Grid. And while batteries have among to shortest warranties you can get some with 7 year warranties like Surrette batteries, 2 years full and 5 prorated. As this site says "Batteries are expensive" but only need to be replace every 7 to 10 years.
Since most people on solar are trying to live on far less energy than a human needs to be comfortable in order to utilize technology that simply isn't cost effective yet
Don't you mean far less energy than YOU need to live comfortably? In Florida, one of the biggest uses of energy is for AC and while I admit I like it cool indoors my last year living there I didn't have the AC turned on at all, and I moved away in August. I didn't even turn the heat on during the winter until a friend pointed out spores and other allergens could built up in the ducts, then I turned it on low. With proper insulation and sealing places that may leak little AC or heat is needed to keep the indoors comfortable.
On the other hand, unlike the northern states, power usage in these places is also reduced. In warm climate areas you stay inside in the summer to avoid the weather rather than the winter.
When not in school I preferred to be at Cocoa Beach, near Ron Jon's, there, scuba diving, or working in my garden.
You've posted that twice, but both times failed to mention one important thing: What happened to that $120,000 bill? Did it get written off by the hospital? Did someone pay it for you? Are you still paying it back now?
The medical bills were paid. The employer of the driver who hit me decided to settle a lawsuit, while I was in the coma my family decided to hire an attorney. So the bills were paid out of the settlement, however I don't have any receipts from the payments and there are entries on my credit reports saying some bills haven't been paid. However, because of the permanent disability I have, a Traumatic Brain Injury or TBI I am also on disability. So I collect Social Security Income, SSI. Even though I paid into it while I worked, I hate that I need it, being "on the public dole". I can't make my own way sort of thing. My sister told me after I came out of the coma I was screaming at everyone to let me die, and I wish I had.
His stance that global warming was 'nonsense' didn't really help him much either. He was also refusing to sign the Kyoto agreement in a time when the average Australia was becoming environmentally conscious and learning all about what damage the support systems to our lifestyles are doing to our planet.
That's something I don't get. From what I'll seen of maps of weather patterns because of Global Warming Australia would be hit hard by drought and isn't it suffering from bad droughts now, especially around Sidney? I once read where a battle was brewing over water, that both farmers and cities needed it but there wasn't enough for both.
Slashdot Mirror
Right, but why rely upon ethos for evaluating the correctness of an article? Are we really going to jump into the fallacy of appeal to authority so quickly?
If I know someone know about the subject I know it's probably will be more correct than if I know nothing about the author. As for falling for authority, I've always questioned authority. Actually when I was in the military that got me into a lot of trouble.
Falcon
I like the "anonymity" on Wikipedia, and I don't think this Knol can measure up, simply because of that reason.
With Wiki you don't know if the author knows anything about the subject whereas with Knol you can see the author's qualifications.
Falcon
But in a free market without government regulation or goverment sponsored health care programs providers would be free to locate clinics where they wished.
That was my point.
They would not build cheap clinics in blue collar neighborhoods, they would maximize revenue and only service rich neighborhoods.
It doesn't need to be a for profit business, nonprofits could also open walk in clinics. Here's a list of some nonprofit walk in clinics in Boston, well free clinics. Or a coop. Or a number of other entities. If it were not expensive to open a clinic people would open one in poor areas just as people open soup kitchens there. Actually it just hit me but a facility that feeds as well gives people medical care could be opened. Add in an employment center.
You cant let the market decide and provide high quality care to all citizens because profit maximizing businesses will seek to avoid caring for those that cannot pay.
Perhaps you missed it where I said insurance policy issuers could be made to pay into a fund for those who can not get health care coverage, whether because they can't afford it or because of a preexisting condition. I admit I didn't say it in the post you replied to but here's one where I did say it.
Falcon
I did not throw in system maintenance costs, which probably exist but I can't make an educated guess as to what they'd be.
Basic system maintenance is basically spraying off the panels to keep objects like leafs off. the rest of the components don't need much maintenance. Where maintenance is an issue is with batteries, which should only be used if the system is Off The Grid. Now, if you want you can record data on the performance of the system, like how much electricity it is producing. TFA's writer does this through the installer's system over the net. If you wanted do you could have data transmitted to your computer though. With this data you can optimize the system.
Also, due to time value of money, the increase in house value in 30 years would have to be quite large in order to equal the up-front payment.
Not if the cost is rolled into the mortgage, interest on the mortgage of a primary residence, the home you live in, is tax deductible. And more and more lenders are taking steps to allow people to install alternative energy systems like solar and wind. In some cases they lower interest or allow borrowers to borrow more. Mortgage companies realize such systems reduce living expenses and so may be willing to do these. The first page of results for googling solar mortgage shows two mortgage lenders who finance solar systems. Heck, one of the results, "The Mortgage Crisis Delivers a Hit to Solar Firms" goes over how the solar industry is affected by the mortgage crisis.
Net of all of this discussion: it still isn't a good decision based solely on financial terms unless the amount it adds to house value in the near-term is large (especially considering the high variability of some of the key cost savings).
Oh, I agree. Installing a solar energy system IS NOT good if you want a short term payoff, it's only good for the longer term financially. Then again most home buyers don't flip houses, buy a house then sale it again after a short period, say after making some improvements. There's no reason to for most people though, there are only three or four reasons to sell your home. Your first one is your starter home where you and your spouse, or significant other, live. You sell it and buy a bigger home when your family grows, then sell that one and buy a smaller one when the children have left. Of course if you move away you'll sale your old home and buy a new one where you move to.
Falcon
I just did some math on this using a 7% investment opportunity cost (after inflation), and for my situation, it would not pay for itself after 30 years (even assuming that it adds $20,000 to the value of the house when sold in 30 years). The NPV of the project is negative. The social value is potentially positive though.
And did you add in the possibility of electricity doubling in price in 4 years? The price of oil should be a hint. And yes, the price of oil does effect the price of electricity. Natural gas is used to generate electricity but as oil prices go up the price more natural gas will be used to fuel vehicles. This will cause electric costs to go up, power generators will have to compeat with vehicles and thus pay more for fuel.
The owner of the system himself said he estimated a payback period, when savings from reduced bills equals the cost of the system, of 9 years. If electrical bills rise faster the payback period will be shorter. And it's likely the increase in house value will be more than the cost of the system in 30 years.
Falcon
And I like the fact that I'm riding higher and can see around me better, which actually increases my safety margin for everyone else, at least from the standpoint of being able to see.
You riding high does not make it safer for others. Like the GP said when I drive, a 2000 Saturn that gets 30 mpg that I bought new but have not put 45,000 miles on yet, I try to watch the traffic in front of me. By looking through their windshield and by looking on their side. However wide vehicles, whether a SUV or not, and high passenger seats makes it difficult if not impossible to see how the traffic is ahead of me.
Cars are incredibly dangerous, and you have to treat them that way.
Especially when the idiot driver is not paying attention to traffic while talking on the cellphone.
smaller cars are more dangerous for motorcycles in a collision (and you can certainly see around motorcycles easier than a car). Should we frown on everyone who doesn't drive a motorcycle? And it's not fair that motorcycles are heavier than bicycles.
The past few weeks I've been seriously thinking about getting a motorcycle. I'd use it for getting from place to place and use the car when I go shopping. I don't know if I could afford the insurance though.
Falcon
Heck, I was just considering what would happen if you took a straight electric dryer and instead of just exhausting the hot air outside if you used a heatpump (think dehumidifier or window size AC unit) to move that heat(very efficiently) to the incoming air before using direct electric heat to warm it up. You'd probably need to add a line to a drain, and a pump to empty out the condensate, but most dryers are located next to washing machines, and they have a drain.
I read an article where the author describes doing this. Normally the dryer vents outdoors but during the winter he has it vent indoors. He put a nylon stocking on the end of the hose to catch the fuss from the clothes being dried. The dryer is in the basement as since heat rises it helps heat the house. Another way to do it is to have the air vent through a heat exchanger, the warm air is used to heat incoming air.
Falcon
" If a solar panel has less than a 25 year warranty or uses thin film in any way, shape or form, or has a negative tolerance rating of 6% or more, you won't find it on our website !"
You've got to factor in the price of complete replacecement. Hell, lets say he gets really lucky and they last 10 years..
HAHA! Twenty years if he's unlucky.
Falcon
Value of the addon != Increase in house price. The new owner has to want (and be willing and able to pay for) the solar augmentation. It might even be worthless to the new owner, who's not willing to deal with the maintenance.
Then he doesn't sale to someone who doesn't want it, others do want it and will pay more for it. Now who do you sale to, the person who is willing to pay more or the one who isn't? Of course in a housing market like we're in now, with the number of foreclosures and such, it may be well neigh impossible to find a buyer willing to pay more. But in 15 or 20 years there may be a boom again, or simply better economics.
Plus, there's depreciation, replacement cost for the panels and other materials, and so on. If he breaks even on this, either through sale or plain old energy generation, I'll be amazed.
With the capital costs rolled into the mortgage there will be a tax deduction. And the equipment can have a warranty of 20 years or more. Using 14 years as the payback period, which is the average payback period I've found online, he'd have 6 years of "free" energy before he had to replace any equipment.
Falcon
You pay more than that, but the rest is confiscated as taxes.
No, he doesn't. He pays precisely that much for all of the things he listed, which are additions to the tax-funded healthcare system.
No he doesn't, I included what I responded to and he says "For all that I pay around 200$ a year for the whole family." All, not just the extra coverage. He may of meant the extra coverage but that's not what he said.
Falcon
The price this guy is paying for electricity is awfully high. Are all Americans gouged like this? I only pay 9 cents Canadian per kWh, and that's a flat rate.
California, where this guy lives, has one of the highest energy costs in the US. I pay 11 cents where I live and my bill comes to less than $30, sometimes less than $20, a month.
Falcon
So it'll take 109 months to get back the money, or 9 years, not adjusting for inflation and investment opportunity cost.
While opportunity costs would increase the tyme to pay off the system, inflation would reduce the tyme. As energy from the power company rises in price his system won't. It's price is paid for, well except for any mortgage which itself is fixed. Unless the stupid thing was done, getting an adjustable mortgage to pay for it.
Let's say that brings it up to 12 years. Not including maintenance and repairs. It might even need complete replacement at that point.
Inverters and solar panels have warranty periods of 20 year or more. Using the typical 14 year payback period I've seen, instead of your 12 years, then there's 6 years of "free" energy. While others are paying $1000 a month on their power bills, he's paying next to nothing.
On another subject, I'm kind of glad to see someone who actually uses more electricity than I do. :)
That's where TFA author went wrong, he should have reduced his energy needs before installing the solar energy system. That'd have an immediate effect and cost less.
Falcon
If we still limited them to their charter like in the 1800s I think a lot of these problems wouldn't occurr.
Thomas Jefferson foresaw this, he believed corporations would become powerful. And they have.
Falcon
I think that the uninsured are much more likely to receive adequate care for a traumatic injury rather than chronic long term ailments(cancer, kidney, etc). The problem with free market healthcare is that:
The problem is that there is NO free market in health care.
When you are sick/injured and need care it is difficult to shop around in order to save money.
A free market would allow walk in clinics in neighborhoods where costs are lower than paying for an ambulance and being rushed to the ER. Like soup kitchens, someone who wants to help could support these clinics for the indigent.
Healthcare organizations don't usually make public the cost of procedures performed, required drugs, instruments, supplies, access to specialists, etc. Agreements between Insurance companies and healthcare providers further obfuscate the true cost of care.
A free market would require this info to be available. And as for hidden information, it's not just health care where it's hidden, knowledge is also hidden by car and tire manufacturers. Companies like Goodyear and Firestone regularly have court documents sealed when they settle a lawsuit over blown out tires. Now as someone who supports free trade and free markets I abhor the sealing of them. A rational decision requires knowledge which sealing hides.
a good doctor will tailor the care to the patient to provide the best outcome but this further complicates cost comparison
Which is why I don't like HMOs.
Providing high quality cost effective healthcare requires providing ongoing preemptive preventative services
Therefore the neighborhood walk in clinics I mention above.
Falcon
the real crime in the US healthcare system is the price gouging that the uninsured experience.
We have high-deductible insurance, which effectively means that we pay for all of our own healthcare. Despite that, we pay less than the uninsured because we pay for medical services at the discounted insurance rate.
Actually no, because the uninsured still receive treatment even if they don't pay, the cost is passed onto those who do pay. When hospitals and doctors don't get paid they raise the cost for those who do pay.
To me, this also shows how little it actually costs to make the system more efficient.
Yea, require insurance policy issuers to pay into a fund that covers those who can't afford insurance. They, and policy holders, are already paying this only formalizes it.
Falcon
Over time, they degrade. I've heard something in-and-around the 20 year range.
Of course depending on the manufacturer and model panels have warranties of 20, 25 years. If your payback period is 14 years, which is pretty typical though for some it's 7 and others it's 20 years, you basically get free energy for 6 years.
That's about as long as most mortgages
According to this, Mortgage and Finance Tips, the traditional mortgage length for first tyme buyers is 30 years. I didn't see an average for previous owners.
it's reasonable to expect that people will start actually paying off their loans and owning a house rather than just upgrading every few years.
Since it's best to think of solar and other energy systems for the long term this, buying and holding instead of flipping, actually can help.
Falcon
I could be missing something, but it sounds to me like you're pretty much fucked.
My life is a living HELL!
Falcon
I'm sorry about your misfortune, but of course you were treated. Doctors and Hospitals are legally obligated to treat you in such situations, regardless of insurance.
Basically that was my point, though I didn't have insurance and couldn't afford it I got treatment.
Not much about your situation is lucky, but it is lucky you were able to sue and get a settlement. Imagine if you couldn't and were stuck with a $120,000 bill? Unfortunately that is the reality for many people.
I believe there should be a way to help those who can't afford it, and are not at fault, but I don't believe medicine should be socialized. Instead I believe a free market in health care, and we do not have one, would go a long way to providing medical care to most people. By allowing walk in clinics to be readily opened, ie get rid of a lot of the regulations that keep them from being opened, more could then be opened in neighborhoods where they are needed. Some people are joining with others to form health care coops like Group Health Coop. The increase in primary care would then decrease the number of emergency room visits, and those visits are expensive and the cost is passed on the everyone else. Then for those who still can't get health insurance there could be a safety net. Say require insurance policy issuers to pay into a fund which then covers these people. When I last had health insurance, I don't have coverage now but am waiting for some, I was denied insurance with a private provider. However where I live they require policy issuers to pay into such a fund and because I was denied coverage I was able to get some through the fund.
Falcon
For all that I pay around 200$ a year for the whole family.
You pay more than that, but the rest is confiscated as taxes. Business Week" has a short article on it, and while it says France has more hospital beds and doctors per capita than the US does, it also says "France is wrestling with runaway health-care inflation" and is raising taxes because of it. Now I'm all for increasing the number of health care professionals, I believe it would lower prices for one thing as there'd be more competition. But I do not agree government should control health care and medicine. Actually I'd like to see the FDA eliminated. I'd also like to see government give people who buy private health insurance the same tax breaks employers get for offering employees insurance. Doing this would open the floodgates of people trying to get health insurance, and insurers would do what they could to lower costs so they could get as many people to sign up with them as they could.
Falcon
Yea, that's what happened in Bolivia, in the city of Cochabamba. Despite a lot of gas previous governments mismanaged money and the country had to get a bailout from the IMF, International Monetary Fund or WB, World Bank. One of the conditions of the aid was that Bolivia had to privatize some things. One of those privatized was Cochabamba's water system, it was sold to Bechtel, one of the US's largest American water companies. As soon as Bechtel took over they more than doubled the price of water and the people couldn't afford it. So they took to the streets and protested, several people were shot during the demonstrations. But eventually the sale was canceled.
Queen Noor of Jordan once said the only reason Jordan would go to war with Israel was over water. And Israel diverts so much water from the River Jordan, which forms the border between the two countries, that the Dead Sea does not get enough water and is draining. This harms those who live down stream, both Jordanians and Israelis but the Bedouins in Israel bare the brunt.
Stuff like this is happening all over the world, in both Colombia and India Coca Cola has pumped so much water from wells farmers wells are running dry. In the US the Colorado River, which carved the Grand Canyon, used to empty into the Sea of Cortez but it no longer reaches the sea. Mexico also has rights to the water by treaty but they hardly ever get any. Desert cities like Los Vega and farmers now claim every drop of water. The Rio Grande River, which separates Texas from Mexico, used to empty into the Gulf of Mexico. But now about all that makes it is a trickle of water at tymes. Meanwhile, in Oregon there was some fighting over water from the Klamath River. It's all dammed up, for hydroelectric power plants and for farmers. However people, and salmon, down river haven't been getting enough water. Several years ago there was a massive kill of salmon because there wasn't enough water.
Falcon
Yup, and that would be fine if we pretend that once solar is installed it is free to maintain. The most commonly ignored fact I see in the cost of solar installations is the fact that your second highest cost is the battery bank which will have to be replaced several times before he recoups his initial investment.
And where does he say he's using batteries?
Whether his actual costs ever drop below what they would have been if he had simply taken the power conservation measures and new appliances that generally go with a solar installation is another matter.
Ah, you pointed out something this guy should have done first, the first thing you do is take energy efficiency measures. You're the first person I've seen say that.
Falcon
But the big whammy is a significant chunk of that 40gs is for the batteries which have to be replaced periodically.
Batteries? Where did he say he got batteries? I must have missed it. Doing an intertie system like he did there is no need for batteries. You only need them if you're Off The Grid. And while batteries have among to shortest warranties you can get some with 7 year warranties like Surrette batteries, 2 years full and 5 prorated. As this site says "Batteries are expensive" but only need to be replace every 7 to 10 years.
Falcon
Since most people on solar are trying to live on far less energy than a human needs to be comfortable in order to utilize technology that simply isn't cost effective yet
Don't you mean far less energy than YOU need to live comfortably? In Florida, one of the biggest uses of energy is for AC and while I admit I like it cool indoors my last year living there I didn't have the AC turned on at all, and I moved away in August. I didn't even turn the heat on during the winter until a friend pointed out spores and other allergens could built up in the ducts, then I turned it on low. With proper insulation and sealing places that may leak little AC or heat is needed to keep the indoors comfortable.
On the other hand, unlike the northern states, power usage in these places is also reduced. In warm climate areas you stay inside in the summer to avoid the weather rather than the winter.
When not in school I preferred to be at Cocoa Beach, near Ron Jon's, there, scuba diving, or working in my garden.
Falcon
You've posted that twice, but both times failed to mention one important thing: What happened to that $120,000 bill? Did it get written off by the hospital? Did someone pay it for you? Are you still paying it back now?
The medical bills were paid. The employer of the driver who hit me decided to settle a lawsuit, while I was in the coma my family decided to hire an attorney. So the bills were paid out of the settlement, however I don't have any receipts from the payments and there are entries on my credit reports saying some bills haven't been paid. However, because of the permanent disability I have, a Traumatic Brain Injury or TBI I am also on disability. So I collect Social Security Income, SSI. Even though I paid into it while I worked, I hate that I need it, being "on the public dole". I can't make my own way sort of thing. My sister told me after I came out of the coma I was screaming at everyone to let me die, and I wish I had.
Falcon
His stance that global warming was 'nonsense' didn't really help him much either. He was also refusing to sign the Kyoto agreement in a time when the average Australia was becoming environmentally conscious and learning all about what damage the support systems to our lifestyles are doing to our planet.
That's something I don't get. From what I'll seen of maps of weather patterns because of Global Warming Australia would be hit hard by drought and isn't it suffering from bad droughts now, especially around Sidney? I once read where a battle was brewing over water, that both farmers and cities needed it but there wasn't enough for both.
Falcon