A plane full of hydrogen fuel colliding with a structure or the ground would cause a massive explosion, much larger than one created by conventional jet fuel.
I recently spent a day with someone at the supplier of 90+% of the world's hydrogen gas, and as you say, they produce it from methane. He pointed out that the amount of CO2 released while producing the hydrogen equivalent of a gallon of gasoline for automobile use is about twice the CO2 released from directly burning the gasoline.
Depending on where the methane comes from, it's probably better to release the CO2, methane is about 20 tymes more potent as a greenhouse gas as CO2.
4> Along with that new infrastructure, you will have an entirely new level of security issues. I invite you to consider the explosive potential of a hydrogen tanker being used by "youths" as an improvised FAE.
But I am in agreement that we should be building nuclear power plants
And create more problems?
I would try to find more ways to replace fossil fuels with electricity as well as finding more non-fossil alternatives.
In "A Solar Grand Plan" Sciam lays out how solar power can provide the US with 69% of it's energy needs by 2050. And the US has enough potential wind power to supply a lot of energy to the US as well. Other sources of energy are biofuels including hydrogen produced by algae, geothermal, and tidal power.
There seem to be some words missing from your reply
In a sense yes, it should read "algae takes CO2 from the atmosphere and and makes hydrogen, and oxygen."
Making biofuels has to consume water (6 water molecules are consumed to create 1 sugar). Burning any hydrocarbon fuel releases water. Unless you're going to collect the exhaust of your car and ship it back to the plant, the system is not a closed loop (except in the sense that all water on the planet is in a closed loop).
I don't see why a closed loop is needed, unless you're in a desert or put too much pressure on the water source.
If you could only make hydrogen from cracking fresh water that might be true, but as far as I know, it's just as easy to crack salt water
But what would you do with the salt? If you put it back in the ocean you'd make it too salty where it's put in which the wildlife there may not be able to live with. Instead, use algae to produce the hydrogen for you.
BTW, I'm not saying that a hydrogen economy is a good idea. I am saying that if we were to try it, locomotives would be a better beneficiary than automobiles.
How about both? You drive your car to the train station, then drive and park it on a train car. On the trip between cities you ride in the passenger section then when you reach the destination you drive your car off the train. Amtrak's Auto Train does that but it only runs between Florida and Virginia.
What do they do with the algae once they're done? Unless your answer is "Remove it from the ecosystem", there is a net carbon addition to the ecosystem.
Actually the algae can be composted and used as a fertilizer.
One good place for algae to get carbon is from the CO2 emissions of coal and other combustion plants. Burn more coal to make more electricity. Use that excess electricity to electrolize H2O for hydrogen fuel. Capture the plant emmissions to grow pond scum for fuel.
Why take all the extra steps when you can have the algae produce the hydrogen for you? No dirty, polluting steps needed.
Those deserts are much better off being used for solar power generation (which does use water, but in a closed loop).
Algae can use water in a closed loop for algae as well. And those deserts? Imperial Valley, CA is a desert. Yet because water from the Colorado River is diverted there it has created America's Winter Salad Bowl. During winter 90% of the US's produce come from there.
As for whether desert should be used for algae or solar, I see no reason why it can't be used for both.
We might really mess up our planet with this new bio-fuel concept. Personally algae seems like a better source than corn so I'm glad this tech is coming about. How might we mess up our planet?
Guess what? Algae makes biofuels as well.
I pretty much agree with the rest of your post, we need to be careful about what we do.
Except you don't. You pull it from the oceans. Both from upper & lower layers.
So the oceans aren't a carbon sink? According this article the oceans adsorb 25% carbon dioxide (CO2) emitted into the atmosphere. And because of all the CO2 the oceans are aborbing they are turning acidic.
But the oceans contain MUCH more carbon than the oil fields, and that *will* be brought up, because algae NEED co2 (like every single plant does)
And like every other plant algae takes CO2 from the atmosphere and give off oxygen.
And have those who can't afford it will be stuck paying for it? While I support mass transit, I like many others will not give up our cars. And I don't drive much, in 2000 I bought a brand new car. When I drove out of the dealership it had 6 miles on it, now almost 9 years later I still haven't driven it 45,000 miles. I drive it less than 5000 miles a year.
Our cities our built with the assumption that people can very cheaply get from one end of it to the other, but they can't anymore.
Those elected officials can help, they can enact mixed use zoning regulations. They can allow people to operate a business from their homes easily. They can also make room, and use it, for designated bike lanes on the roads.
The neo-hippies with their lattes and they horn rimmed glasses are not helping the cause, they're hurting it by buying into a false reality and encouraging others to do so.
Hay, though I drink espresso and don't wear glasses, I'm a hippy. Actually I want hemp, marijuana, made legal again. It's a good source for vegetable oil, and Rudolph Diesel designed his diesel engine to run on vegetable oil. Henry Ford designed and built an auto on his Iron Mountain estate that used hemp in it's construction as well as was fueled by hemp. Hemp can also be used for making Bioplastic. And hemp seeds are nutritious.
There are few enough wealthy people that the total impact of private jets may be small, but the takeaway lesson is that the elites have no stake in the survival of commercial aviation. They'll just let it collapse.
A lot of the wealthy have only paper wealth and own stocks and businesses rely on aviation. Sure some business can be done over the net but nothing beats a face to face meeting when it matters. Heck, even net companies use planes. One lady I knew who ran her own web design business had to fly to London, she lives in the Midwest of the US, to meet clients.
I suppose I don't know a lot about the topic, but domestic aviation's more important to the US than to just about anybody else, innit? And the US airlines are busy melting down.
I really doubt that if we open up drilling in the US there will be any appreciable increase in the amount of CO2 that will be released, but there will be an appreciable drop in the price of oil.
To me, this has the same problem as the biomass -> ethanol projects.
Q: Who is going to grow the biomass?
A: Farmers.
Q: Will they grow it on new farms?
A: No. They will convert existing farms.
Q: So who will grow food then?
A:?
Farmers will grow it, as food prices rise farmers will want to cash in. As for the farms themselves, a lot of land that was used for growing food as gone fallow, such as in Zimbabwe. Zimbabwe used to be the breadbasket of southern Africa, farms there produced plenty of food for people there to eat but was able to export a lot of food. Food used to be the country's main export. However after Robert Mugabe came to power he forced a lot of farmers, many were white, off of their farms. He then gave farms to his cronies, who didn't know how to farm. So now Zimbabwe is a basketcase. In Mexico farmers have been driven off their farms. Because US agribusinesses receive billions of dollars in subsidies and NAFTA they can export and sale corn cheaper than Mexican farmers can grow corn. With rising corn prices Mexican farmers may be encouraged to stay on the farms. With CAFTA this will spread to Central America.
Seriously, as green as "bio jet fuel" sounds, I don't see how it helps the environment one bit compared to fossil fuel. I guess it's renewable, so it helps us get off the need to drill, but it has the same emissions, same carbon footprint...
Yes some biofuels emit CO2 but they take in CO2 while growing, more than when burned. But forget about corn, which the US uses, the sugar cane that Brazil uses is better. Then there's switchgrass which is even better, for producing ethanol.
just keep it on hand for whatever cooking needs it
Basically the same here, I used to drink half gallon or more of milk a day. But all I drink it is with my espresso. Once in a while I use milk when cooking but not much.
Will have to find a sour lemon seed to plant, I guess.
Lemon trees are relatively cold intolerant. Even in Florida farmers put out oil burners in groves during the winter in case the temp drops too far. The same with oranges and other citrus fruits.
and the climate here rots fruit too fast for buying bulk (my shopping philosophy: if you can't buy it at Sam's or Costco, you can't buy it:)
I too like to buy in bulk and shop at both Costco and Sam's. However I also try to guy organic food as much as I can, and I haven't seen any at either place. It's been a while since I've been to Sam's and Walmart has started carrying some so Sam's may also now.
I had a lime but it winterkilled (cuz it wasn't own-root; grown from seed are MUCH more hardy)
Does a windows sysadmin really need to study algorithms and discreet math?
I don't know if a Windows sysadmin, or a Mac or Linux sysadmin needs either one. I haven't really been interested in administration. Way back when I decided my major I wanted to research on the design of computer systems and wanted to be an engineer, so I chose Computer Engineering. It was either that or do research in Marine Science, maybe Oceanography. Now I wish I knew then how to combine both computers and marine science. While on a field trip to Mote Marine Laboratory in high school my Marine Biology class took a couple of us were offered summer jobs there and assistance in getting into a related major in college and paying for it. Instead of taking them up on it I chose to major in CE, and went into the Army to save money so I could go to college. I never did finish my major, an accident I had after classes one semester ended that dream.
H1-Bs and L-1s are not entrepreneurs they are here on a temporary work visa.
Is there a law saying H1B and L-1 visa holders can't come back to the US later and start a business? And not all foreign employees in the US have either visa.
Slashdot Mirror
A plane full of hydrogen fuel colliding with a structure or the ground would cause a massive explosion, much larger than one created by conventional jet fuel.
"If Hydrogen-Fueled Aircraft Were Used, the Collapse of World Trade Center would Not Have Happened".
FalconI recently spent a day with someone at the supplier of 90+% of the world's hydrogen gas, and as you say, they produce it from methane. He pointed out that the amount of CO2 released while producing the hydrogen equivalent of a gallon of gasoline for automobile use is about twice the CO2 released from directly burning the gasoline.
Depending on where the methane comes from, it's probably better to release the CO2, methane is about 20 tymes more potent as a greenhouse gas as CO2.
Falcon4> Along with that new infrastructure, you will have an entirely new level of security issues. I invite you to consider the explosive potential of a hydrogen tanker being used by "youths" as an improvised FAE.
"If Hydrogen-Fueled Aircraft Were Used, the Collapse of World Trade Center would Not Have Happened".
But I am in agreement that we should be building nuclear power plants
And create more problems?
I would try to find more ways to replace fossil fuels with electricity as well as finding more non-fossil alternatives.
In "A Solar Grand Plan" Sciam lays out how solar power can provide the US with 69% of it's energy needs by 2050. And the US has enough potential wind power to supply a lot of energy to the US as well. Other sources of energy are biofuels including hydrogen produced by algae, geothermal, and tidal power.
FalconThere seem to be some words missing from your reply
In a sense yes, it should read "algae takes CO2 from the atmosphere and and makes hydrogen, and oxygen."
Making biofuels has to consume water (6 water molecules are consumed to create 1 sugar). Burning any hydrocarbon fuel releases water. Unless you're going to collect the exhaust of your car and ship it back to the plant, the system is not a closed loop (except in the sense that all water on the planet is in a closed loop).
I don't see why a closed loop is needed, unless you're in a desert or put too much pressure on the water source.
FalconIf you could only make hydrogen from cracking fresh water that might be true, but as far as I know, it's just as easy to crack salt water
But what would you do with the salt? If you put it back in the ocean you'd make it too salty where it's put in which the wildlife there may not be able to live with. Instead, use algae to produce the hydrogen for you.
FalconBTW, I'm not saying that a hydrogen economy is a good idea. I am saying that if we were to try it, locomotives would be a better beneficiary than automobiles.
How about both? You drive your car to the train station, then drive and park it on a train car. On the trip between cities you ride in the passenger section then when you reach the destination you drive your car off the train. Amtrak's Auto Train does that but it only runs between Florida and Virginia.
FalconI do.
The zoning, design and construction of their homes and cities make them reliant on cars.
Now this I agree with, but I still love having a car.
FalconWhat do they do with the algae once they're done? Unless your answer is "Remove it from the ecosystem", there is a net carbon addition to the ecosystem.
Actually the algae can be composted and used as a fertilizer.
FalconOne good place for algae to get carbon is from the CO2 emissions of coal and other combustion plants. Burn more coal to make more electricity. Use that excess electricity to electrolize H2O for hydrogen fuel. Capture the plant emmissions to grow pond scum for fuel.
Why take all the extra steps when you can have the algae produce the hydrogen for you? No dirty, polluting steps needed.
FalconI'm pretty sure those hydrocarbons are getting their hydrogen from somewhere, and it isn't from CO2.
Sure they do, algae takes CO2 from the atmosphere and to make hydrogen, and oxygen.
FalconThose deserts are much better off being used for solar power generation (which does use water, but in a closed loop).
Algae can use water in a closed loop for algae as well. And those deserts? Imperial Valley, CA is a desert. Yet because water from the Colorado River is diverted there it has created America's Winter Salad Bowl. During winter 90% of the US's produce come from there.
As for whether desert should be used for algae or solar, I see no reason why it can't be used for both.
FalconWe might really mess up our planet with this new bio-fuel concept. Personally algae seems like a better source than corn so I'm glad this tech is coming about. How might we mess up our planet?
Guess what? Algae makes biofuels as well.
I pretty much agree with the rest of your post, we need to be careful about what we do.
FalconExcept you don't. You pull it from the oceans. Both from upper & lower layers.
So the oceans aren't a carbon sink? According this article the oceans adsorb 25% carbon dioxide (CO2) emitted into the atmosphere. And because of all the CO2 the oceans are aborbing they are turning acidic.
But the oceans contain MUCH more carbon than the oil fields, and that *will* be brought up, because algae NEED co2 (like every single plant does)
And like every other plant algae takes CO2 from the atmosphere and give off oxygen.
and for plants more co2=better
While this is true for some plants, such as poison ivy "Climate Change Surprise: High Carbon Dioxide Levels Can Retard Plant Growth, Study Reveals".
So I do believe the poster was right. Nobody tell the green nuts, okay ?
Have you read what science says?
FalconWe NEED hydrogen power.
And algae produces hydrogen.
Elect officials that build mass transit systems.
And have those who can't afford it will be stuck paying for it? While I support mass transit, I like many others will not give up our cars. And I don't drive much, in 2000 I bought a brand new car. When I drove out of the dealership it had 6 miles on it, now almost 9 years later I still haven't driven it 45,000 miles. I drive it less than 5000 miles a year.
Our cities our built with the assumption that people can very cheaply get from one end of it to the other, but they can't anymore.
Those elected officials can help, they can enact mixed use zoning regulations. They can allow people to operate a business from their homes easily. They can also make room, and use it, for designated bike lanes on the roads.
The neo-hippies with their lattes and they horn rimmed glasses are not helping the cause, they're hurting it by buying into a false reality and encouraging others to do so.
Hay, though I drink espresso and don't wear glasses, I'm a hippy. Actually I want hemp, marijuana, made legal again. It's a good source for vegetable oil, and Rudolph Diesel designed his diesel engine to run on vegetable oil. Henry Ford designed and built an auto on his Iron Mountain estate that used hemp in it's construction as well as was fueled by hemp. Hemp can also be used for making Bioplastic. And hemp seeds are nutritious.
FalconThere are few enough wealthy people that the total impact of private jets may be small, but the takeaway lesson is that the elites have no stake in the survival of commercial aviation. They'll just let it collapse.
A lot of the wealthy have only paper wealth and own stocks and businesses rely on aviation. Sure some business can be done over the net but nothing beats a face to face meeting when it matters. Heck, even net companies use planes. One lady I knew who ran her own web design business had to fly to London, she lives in the Midwest of the US, to meet clients.
FalconAnybody who can afford it, meaning corporate VPs and up, are abandoning commercial flights in droves. You'd be a fool not to.
Tell that to the Chinese. And Indians.
FalconRapid growth in aviation continuing?
You think so?
Yes.
I suppose I don't know a lot about the topic, but domestic aviation's more important to the US than to just about anybody else, innit? And the US airlines are busy melting down.
And aviation is taking off in China and India.
FalconI really doubt that if we open up drilling in the US there will be any appreciable increase in the amount of CO2 that will be released, but there will be an appreciable drop in the price of oil.
Citation please.
FalconAs for the Rapid Growth in the Aviation sector, precisely where is that growth? There are fewer flights today than there were 5 years ago.
It's true flying in the US is down but it's increasing in China and India.
FalconI think that air travel is going to remain flat at most, and more likely, will decline at least somewhat.
China and India have plenty of capability to grow, and they are the most populous nations in the world.
FalconTo me, this has the same problem as the biomass -> ethanol projects.
Q: Who is going to grow the biomass?
A: Farmers.
Q: Will they grow it on new farms?
A: No. They will convert existing farms.
Q: So who will grow food then?
A:?
Farmers will grow it, as food prices rise farmers will want to cash in. As for the farms themselves, a lot of land that was used for growing food as gone fallow, such as in Zimbabwe. Zimbabwe used to be the breadbasket of southern Africa, farms there produced plenty of food for people there to eat but was able to export a lot of food. Food used to be the country's main export. However after Robert Mugabe came to power he forced a lot of farmers, many were white, off of their farms. He then gave farms to his cronies, who didn't know how to farm. So now Zimbabwe is a basketcase. In Mexico farmers have been driven off their farms. Because US agribusinesses receive billions of dollars in subsidies and NAFTA they can export and sale corn cheaper than Mexican farmers can grow corn. With rising corn prices Mexican farmers may be encouraged to stay on the farms. With CAFTA this will spread to Central America.
FalconSeriously, as green as "bio jet fuel" sounds, I don't see how it helps the environment one bit compared to fossil fuel. I guess it's renewable, so it helps us get off the need to drill, but it has the same emissions, same carbon footprint...
Yes some biofuels emit CO2 but they take in CO2 while growing, more than when burned. But forget about corn, which the US uses, the sugar cane that Brazil uses is better. Then there's switchgrass which is even better, for producing ethanol.
Falconjust keep it on hand for whatever cooking needs it
Basically the same here, I used to drink half gallon or more of milk a day. But all I drink it is with my espresso. Once in a while I use milk when cooking but not much.
Will have to find a sour lemon seed to plant, I guess.
Lemon trees are relatively cold intolerant. Even in Florida farmers put out oil burners in groves during the winter in case the temp drops too far. The same with oranges and other citrus fruits.
and the climate here rots fruit too fast for buying bulk (my shopping philosophy: if you can't buy it at Sam's or Costco, you can't buy it :)
I too like to buy in bulk and shop at both Costco and Sam's. However I also try to guy organic food as much as I can, and I haven't seen any at either place. It's been a while since I've been to Sam's and Walmart has started carrying some so Sam's may also now.
I had a lime but it winterkilled (cuz it wasn't own-root; grown from seed are MUCH more hardy)
Was a branch grafted onto root stock?
FalconCS is often derided also.
I've seen a lot of that on /.
Does a windows sysadmin really need to study algorithms and discreet math?
I don't know if a Windows sysadmin, or a Mac or Linux sysadmin needs either one. I haven't really been interested in administration. Way back when I decided my major I wanted to research on the design of computer systems and wanted to be an engineer, so I chose Computer Engineering. It was either that or do research in Marine Science, maybe Oceanography. Now I wish I knew then how to combine both computers and marine science. While on a field trip to Mote Marine Laboratory in high school my Marine Biology class took a couple of us were offered summer jobs there and assistance in getting into a related major in college and paying for it. Instead of taking them up on it I chose to major in CE, and went into the Army to save money so I could go to college. I never did finish my major, an accident I had after classes one semester ended that dream.
FalconH1-Bs and L-1s are not entrepreneurs they are here on a temporary work visa.
Is there a law saying H1B and L-1 visa holders can't come back to the US later and start a business? And not all foreign employees in the US have either visa.
Falcon