If you are going to get rid of the subsidies, then you should also get rid of the reason we need them in the first place. Let us use illegal mexican immigrant children paid 30 cents a day, housed in shanty towns they'll construct themselves from what they can find in our garbage...
Buzz, I guess you haven't received the word yet, the US is the largest food exporter in the world. If all farm subsidies and other farm supports were ended all that would happen is that a Mexican corn farmer would be able to make a living on his or her farm. As would an Indonesian cotton farmer. Not as many farmers in India would commit suicide because they can't compeat with EU and US agribusinesses who receive billions of taxpayer dollars.
I can only hope that one day the rest of the world enjoys the same standard of life we do. Then all this outsourcing bullshit will finally stop. Free Trade agreements go a long ways towards making it happen... trouble is...
Trouble is is there are no free trade agreements. When Brazil, India, or South Africa try to get one the west stalls.
I'll agree that the current system is the best, but it does help farmers and local economies. I grew up in one of those. It isn't about heritage, it is about self reliance. Everyone is screaming that we need to wean ourselves off foreign oil and you want to sell out our farmers instead? No thanks. I don't have much faith in the free market when corporations get to do almost whatever they want to try to control the situation.
The system we have is BAD!!! I am a member of two coops and try to support local producers. I don't want my tax dollars going into the pockets of Archer Daniels Midland or ConAgra. Relying on ADM or ConAgra isn't self reliance either. Though I don't have much space where I live now I love gardening and try to grow as much of my own food as I can. Now that's closer to self reliance.
You don't like corporations trying to control the situation? Then why do you support your, and everyone else's, tax dollars ending up in their pockets? That only makes them stronger not weaker.
The other major reason is to offset how cheap labor is throughout the world. In Mexico a farmer doesnt have to spend $4000/acre for his land, or pay his workers nearly what a US farmer makes for a living. The theory is that these subsidies are needed to help US farmers against this fact, to help combat the agricultural equivelent of "outsourcing" our farming jobs.
In Mexico a farmer can't grow corn cheaper than a US agribusiness can grow corn then ship and sell it in Mexico. Corn subsidies give US agribusinesses an unfair advantage over Mexican corn farmers. Which is one reason there are so many "illegal immigrants" in the US.
If you take the price that corn sold for in the 1970s and adjusted for inflation, corn should be selling for above $10/bushel today. The prices of corn and other commodities have been kept low for years because there are more voters who eat food than there are who grow food.
And how high would the price of corn be if they didn't get billions of dollars a year in subsidies?. From 1995 to 2005 corn received $51.3 billion in subsidies.
A plant you can grow easily at home replacing hundred dollar a pill patent medicines and cutting into alcohol sales? Not under our current system, no way.
Actually when congress was debating making hemp, aka marijuana, illegal the AMA tried to keep it legal. A doctor from the AMA testified in congress about how useful hemp was in medicine.
Last time I checked, there are more gas cars on the road then diesel cars.
Ethanol can supplement gas, or with some modifications gasoline engines can be made to run pure ethanol. In the 1930's Henry Ford designed and built a vehicle that was fueled by ethanol made from hemp he grew on his Iron Mountain Estate so the technology isn't anything new.
But I do have a useless, small, heated, damp basement. Might this be usable for brewing beer?
Yea, space is a problem I have too. I may be able to get away with making 2 gallon batches but I think I'd really be pushing it to make 5 gallon batches. I too have a basement I might be able to use, however there's two problems with that. The first is that I live in an apartment and right now I may have trouble with others, it is a common area. Another problem is the space I could use I want to make into a photography darkroom.
Strangely enough, Horizon organic milk is still $3/half gallon, same as it was 5 years ago. Maybe their cows are grass fed.
Yea, that's about what I pay. Plus $1.50 deposit on the bottles, which are returnable and refillable glass bottles. Horizon is an organic coop, yes it's owned by the farmers, so the cows are free range grass fed. I don't buy Horizon though.
All this is true, and they taste good! When the US government finally wises up and ends the stupid prohibition on the stuff, the country will be better off than continuing the stupid (and mostly ineffective) prohibition.
We do have an election coming up in the US. It would be great if the US population was smart enough to vote for a sane candidate, but that is a wild dream of mine.
You're voting for Ron Paul then aren't you? Not the only reason but one of the reasons Republicans left the Republican Party and started the Libertarian Party was over hemp. Then president Nixon had a presidential commission looking into whether hemp should be legalized. Nixon though said that no matter what his commission concluded he would never agree to let hemp be legalized, which is exactly what the commission decided.
dont forget the benefits of not causing corn prices to skyrocket screwing the poor people we export corn to.
Stopping the export of corn may, and I think will, help the third world. Or at least stopping the subsidizing of corn will. Because US corn is subsidized farmers in third world nations, such as Mexico, can't compeat. A Mexican farmer will spend more to grow corn than what a Mexican will spend on buying imported corn putting the farmer out of work, and off his land.
No other segment of our society has been tasked with a doubling or tripling of their projected work load en masse like the farmers have now accepted to attempt.
This is wrong. If you don't think so wait ten to twenty more years then try to make an appointment with a doctor, many of whom are approaching retirement. This is a big problem right now in Africa, many African doctors, nurses, and other health care workers are moving to Europe, who accepts them with open arms because of the aging European population. This is causing a brain drain in Africa.
Umm, I think buffalo ranching and switchgrass farming are mutually exclusive. You can't turn the switchgrass into fuel if the buffalo eat it. You can either do one or the other.
If you keep the head count on a given amount of land low buffalo and switchgrass can be mutually beneficial. Sure the buffalo will eat some of the switchgrass but the manure from the buffalo provides nutrients to the switchgrass.
The planet's desalination process requires very little effort on our part to exploit. I don't believe we need all these distilleries or reverse osmosis contraptions to supply our fresh water needs. Not when it already falls from the sky for free. Manna from heaven that we let run down the storm drains.
If you're lucky to live where it rains a lot you may not have much trouble with fresh water. However even Georgia hasn't gotten as much rain as normal has it? Isn't there a lake there many depend on for freshwater drying up because of low rainfall?
The good of society at large has to come before the few people not being able to do the line of work they want to do.
And how does society benefit when those who can create something that offers benefit to society decides they will not spend the tyme, money, and energy to create something if they can't benefit themselves? Exactly how many inventions came out of the Soviet Union while the west was cranking out one invention after another?
They'd have to be industrial leaves though, potent strains will have noticable amounts of thc even if the thc is centered in the flower or bud of the plant. Or so I'd assume.
Even so called industrial hemp has THC which will show up in a drug test. I don't know how wide spread it is but it's not uncommon for someone to be asked if they have eaten any hemp products when they have a drug test. I don't recall exactly when but sometime in the late 1980s or early 1990s someone took a drug test and it came back positive. Because of the positive result something negative happened and the person had to go through a big hassle to prove the reason why the test came back positive was because they used hemp salad dressing.
Howevr marijuana and the THC it contains is not as bad as so many have made it to be. The movie "Reefer Madness" made hemp users out to be violent, however every study I have heard of conclude the exact opposite. Instead of making users violent hemp relaxes them so they just want to mellow out, sit back and relax.
Yes, you only pay if you want to register a copyright. However if you don't and if someone else infringes on what you wrote the most you can get if you sue is a cease and desist order. If you want to be awarded monetary damage by a court then you have to register the copyright.
We wouldn't need any land mass at all if we made giant algae pools on the surface of the oceans to make bio-diesel, which is a much more viable alternative anyway, with the minimal needed changes in the infrastructure that's already in place.
Slashdot Mirror
If you are going to get rid of the subsidies, then you should also get rid of the reason we need them in the first place. Let us use illegal mexican immigrant children paid 30 cents a day, housed in shanty towns they'll construct themselves from what they can find in our garbage...
Buzz, I guess you haven't received the word yet, the US is the largest food exporter in the world. If all farm subsidies and other farm supports were ended all that would happen is that a Mexican corn farmer would be able to make a living on his or her farm. As would an Indonesian cotton farmer. Not as many farmers in India would commit suicide because they can't compeat with EU and US agribusinesses who receive billions of taxpayer dollars.
I can only hope that one day the rest of the world enjoys the same standard of life we do. Then all this outsourcing bullshit will finally stop. Free Trade agreements go a long ways towards making it happen... trouble is...
Trouble is is there are no free trade agreements. When Brazil, India, or South Africa try to get one the west stalls.
FslconI'll agree that the current system is the best, but it does help farmers and local economies. I grew up in one of those. It isn't about heritage, it is about self reliance. Everyone is screaming that we need to wean ourselves off foreign oil and you want to sell out our farmers instead? No thanks. I don't have much faith in the free market when corporations get to do almost whatever they want to try to control the situation.
The system we have is BAD!!! I am a member of two coops and try to support local producers. I don't want my tax dollars going into the pockets of Archer Daniels Midland or ConAgra. Relying on ADM or ConAgra isn't self reliance either. Though I don't have much space where I live now I love gardening and try to grow as much of my own food as I can. Now that's closer to self reliance.
You don't like corporations trying to control the situation? Then why do you support your, and everyone else's, tax dollars ending up in their pockets? That only makes them stronger not weaker.
The other major reason is to offset how cheap labor is throughout the world. In Mexico a farmer doesnt have to spend $4000/acre for his land, or pay his workers nearly what a US farmer makes for a living. The theory is that these subsidies are needed to help US farmers against this fact, to help combat the agricultural equivelent of "outsourcing" our farming jobs.
In Mexico a farmer can't grow corn cheaper than a US agribusiness can grow corn then ship and sell it in Mexico. Corn subsidies give US agribusinesses an unfair advantage over Mexican corn farmers. Which is one reason there are so many "illegal immigrants" in the US.
FalconIf you take the price that corn sold for in the 1970s and adjusted for inflation, corn should be selling for above $10/bushel today. The prices of corn and other commodities have been kept low for years because there are more voters who eat food than there are who grow food.
And how high would the price of corn be if they didn't get billions of dollars a year in subsidies?. From 1995 to 2005 corn received $51.3 billion in subsidies.
FalconYea, it's paper made from hemp.
FalconA plant you can grow easily at home replacing hundred dollar a pill patent medicines and cutting into alcohol sales? Not under our current system, no way.
Actually when congress was debating making hemp, aka marijuana, illegal the AMA tried to keep it legal. A doctor from the AMA testified in congress about how useful hemp was in medicine.
FalconLast time I checked, there are more gas cars on the road then diesel cars.
Ethanol can supplement gas, or with some modifications gasoline engines can be made to run pure ethanol. In the 1930's Henry Ford designed and built a vehicle that was fueled by ethanol made from hemp he grew on his Iron Mountain Estate so the technology isn't anything new.
FalconBut I do have a useless, small, heated, damp basement. Might this be usable for brewing beer?
Yea, space is a problem I have too. I may be able to get away with making 2 gallon batches but I think I'd really be pushing it to make 5 gallon batches. I too have a basement I might be able to use, however there's two problems with that. The first is that I live in an apartment and right now I may have trouble with others, it is a common area. Another problem is the space I could use I want to make into a photography darkroom.
FalconThe only problem is that American brewers don't produce good beers.
Oh but you can find good made in America beers. Samuel Adams makes some good brews. As do many Microbreweries or brewpubs.
FalconStrangely enough, Horizon organic milk is still $3/half gallon, same as it was 5 years ago. Maybe their cows are grass fed.
Yea, that's about what I pay. Plus $1.50 deposit on the bottles, which are returnable and refillable glass bottles. Horizon is an organic coop, yes it's owned by the farmers, so the cows are free range grass fed. I don't buy Horizon though.
FalconAll this is true, and they taste good! When the US government finally wises up and ends the stupid prohibition on the stuff, the country will be better off than continuing the stupid (and mostly ineffective) prohibition.
We do have an election coming up in the US. It would be great if the US population was smart enough to vote for a sane candidate, but that is a wild dream of mine.
You're voting for Ron Paul then aren't you? Not the only reason but one of the reasons Republicans left the Republican Party and started the Libertarian Party was over hemp. Then president Nixon had a presidential commission looking into whether hemp should be legalized. Nixon though said that no matter what his commission concluded he would never agree to let hemp be legalized, which is exactly what the commission decided.
Falcondont forget the benefits of not causing corn prices to skyrocket screwing the poor people we export corn to.
Stopping the export of corn may, and I think will, help the third world. Or at least stopping the subsidizing of corn will. Because US corn is subsidized farmers in third world nations, such as Mexico, can't compeat. A Mexican farmer will spend more to grow corn than what a Mexican will spend on buying imported corn putting the farmer out of work, and off his land.
FalconNo other segment of our society has been tasked with a doubling or tripling of their projected work load en masse like the farmers have now accepted to attempt.
This is wrong. If you don't think so wait ten to twenty more years then try to make an appointment with a doctor, many of whom are approaching retirement. This is a big problem right now in Africa, many African doctors, nurses, and other health care workers are moving to Europe, who accepts them with open arms because of the aging European population. This is causing a brain drain in Africa.
FalconUmm, I think buffalo ranching and switchgrass farming are mutually exclusive. You can't turn the switchgrass into fuel if the buffalo eat it. You can either do one or the other.
If you keep the head count on a given amount of land low buffalo and switchgrass can be mutually beneficial. Sure the buffalo will eat some of the switchgrass but the manure from the buffalo provides nutrients to the switchgrass.
Falcon...why would we destroy the ecosystem of thousands of acres of ocean as well?
I'm not sure that adding to the biomass with a natural life form would be so detrimental.
The algae being used for hydrogen production is genetically engineered, ie it's not the same as the algae found in the oceans.
FalconAh but OTEC only works "within 20 of the equator"
Furthermore, OTEC doesn't have the same potential of dramatic ecosystem change that cultivated algae farms may have upon the ocean.
You don't need the oceans for algae farms, an algae farm can be established in the desert.
OTEC has a lot of potential for coastal markets which, coincidentally, are where we are seeing the most growth in demand for energy.
As stated above, TEC is only good near the equator which leaves out most of the planet.
FalconThe planet's desalination process requires very little effort on our part to exploit. I don't believe we need all these distilleries or reverse osmosis contraptions to supply our fresh water needs. Not when it already falls from the sky for free. Manna from heaven that we let run down the storm drains.
If you're lucky to live where it rains a lot you may not have much trouble with fresh water. However even Georgia hasn't gotten as much rain as normal has it? Isn't there a lake there many depend on for freshwater drying up because of low rainfall?
FalconWell, we didn't actually do to war with them, or with Cuba
While we, the US, didn't go to war with Cuba we did go to war with Spain in the Spanish American War after which Cuba declared it's independence.
We did, however go to war by proxie with the USSR, and they are how close to Alaska? Their neighbors, aren't they?
The US bought Alaska from Russia, the Russian czar "sold" Alaska to the US.
FalconThe good of society at large has to come before the few people not being able to do the line of work they want to do.
And how does society benefit when those who can create something that offers benefit to society decides they will not spend the tyme, money, and energy to create something if they can't benefit themselves? Exactly how many inventions came out of the Soviet Union while the west was cranking out one invention after another?
FalconThis doesn't answer why society should give up rights and spend money. No one is owed a living, no matter how hard they work.
And society isn't owed something a person creates either.
FslconThey'd have to be industrial leaves though, potent strains will have noticable amounts of thc even if the thc is centered in the flower or bud of the plant. Or so I'd assume.
Even so called industrial hemp has THC which will show up in a drug test. I don't know how wide spread it is but it's not uncommon for someone to be asked if they have eaten any hemp products when they have a drug test. I don't recall exactly when but sometime in the late 1980s or early 1990s someone took a drug test and it came back positive. Because of the positive result something negative happened and the person had to go through a big hassle to prove the reason why the test came back positive was because they used hemp salad dressing.
Howevr marijuana and the THC it contains is not as bad as so many have made it to be. The movie "Reefer Madness" made hemp users out to be violent, however every study I have heard of conclude the exact opposite. Instead of making users violent hemp relaxes them so they just want to mellow out, sit back and relax.
FalconThere is a fee in the US.
For registered copyrights, I assume?
Yes, you only pay if you want to register a copyright. However if you don't and if someone else infringes on what you wrote the most you can get if you sue is a cease and desist order. If you want to be awarded monetary damage by a court then you have to register the copyright.
FalconTrue, but the redeeming factor of soy is that it provides complete protein.
"Hemp Seed Protein"
Falcon"Hemp seeds have the most complete edible and usable protein in the vegetable kingdom."
Hemp seeds are nutritious. Leaves can be used for salad and most everywhere else lettuce is used.
Just Googling for hemp "salad dressing" returns almost 18,000 results. Hemp food returns more than 250,000.
FalconWe wouldn't need any land mass at all if we made giant algae pools on the surface of the oceans to make bio-diesel, which is a much more viable alternative anyway, with the minimal needed changes in the infrastructure that's already in place.
You could also use algae to produce hydrogen.
Falcon