Plain wrong. The payroll tax is capped, meaning that it will present itself to be a lower percentage for high earners.
TROLL!!! I've already provided the top tax rate, which is 35%. No other income pays nearly as much. Since you keep on making things up I will not continue trying to have a rational discussion with you.
The Twin Cities of Minneapolis/St Paul with a population of more than 3 million. Two block from me there's a privately owned convince store some of my neighbors work at, with many more small businesses on the same street. Several blocks in the opposite direction there's more small businesses. I'd say the area was Asian however there are also African shops, a cafe, and a German restaurant in walking distance. In a third direction there's more independent businesses. The fourth direction has nothing, the street ends in a "T". My sister has her own business, in accounting, with offices downtown.
However it's not just here with a large population. I moved here from Orlando, FL. There I knew people who owned their own business as well.
And there are a LOT more small businesses in Europe than in the U.S
Citation needed. Looking for myself, I found where the European Commission says "48% of Europeans agree with the statement 'You should not start a business if it might fail', compared with just 19% in the United States". According to the EC Europeans are more risk adverse that Americans not less. Continuing to look I found the article The United States Is the New Europe which says "While the government is hiring, the private sector is losing millions of jobs rather than creating them." It goes on about how Obama wants to make the US more like Europe, and that some of his policies harm small businesses. Continue... Again the EC provides something, Fact and figures about the EUs Small and Medium Enterprise (SME) says that more than 99% of Europe's businesses are SMEs.
Of those the average number of employees is 2, but some have more than 10 employees. A quick calculation says that for every one business that has 10 employees there has to be 10 businesses with only one employee, rounding error.
As for the business travellers--that was exactly my point. They shouldn't be flying at all, but the real reason they are doing it is not because they need to, but because they enjoy it
Some business has to be done face to face, and not via video. There's just too much communications that video misses. People may be just as unlikely to trust video conferencing for business as they would be for tele-surgery or remote surgery.
They want to "network," play golf and socialize,and basically waste all of our money (whether as investors or customers paying higher prices for products). It's a pretty appalling practice in this day and age!
I knew one person who ran her own business as a web designer and she frequently flew. I find it highly unlikely that she, or most any other business owner, would waste money flying when video works. Fact is is video does not work all the tyme.
You assert that corporations today actually try to pay employees more than the bare minimum they can get away with?
I did not say that, or anything like it. Employers, not all but most, will pay what the market will take or demands. And the market? It's the workers. If enough workers with specific education, skills, or training demand higher pay and refuse to work otherwise employers will have to pay that, that is if they can. Now if the compensation demand is too high, as it was for the Detroit auto makers before the bailout, they will go out of business.
They charge their customers less than the maximum they can get away with?
I have to say that Adobe tech support is quite possibly the absolute worst tech support I've ever seen from a major company.
For me that distinction goes to Gateway. The first PC I bought was from them and every tyme I called tech support, almost once a month in the first year, I'd be asked if I recently installed anything. If so I was told they do not support that, the only way to get the support is if I uninstall it or reinstall Windows and nothing else. They didn't get much more business from me.
I'd be thrilled to find a place here where small, independent businesses are actually thriving, but one doesn't exist.
Maybe where you live small businesses may be hard to find but not where I am. My sister runs her own business as do others I know or knew. I'm hoping to start my own small business. Now I know it's hard in some places, like Europe, but not in the US. Here's the small business stats from the US Census Bureau. The stats are a bit out of date, the latest numbers are from 2004 but I doubt the numbers have changed that much since then. One thing I find revealing is where it says "Since 1997, however, nonemployers have grown faster than employer firms." Nonemployers are the self-employed.
Also remember the vast majority of air travel is for business purposes, and those people are under the impression that they *don't* have a choice to just not fly.
Then they aren't paying attention. There's GoToMeeting as well as other ways to hold meeting online. Why businesses don't even need permanent offices now, they can rent temporary or shared office space now. Need to meet a client? Rent an office for a day. That is if meeting in a restaurant or cafe will not work. These offices even have broadband access, heck Barnes and Noble book stores have free wifi.
I know some people who run their own businesses proving you wrong. My sister is one of them, with friends of hers she started an accounting business. She used to work for Ernst & Young but no longer.
Their strategy is to keep most of their customers just barely satisfied to come back to them rather than the competition (keeping in mind that's what the competition is also doing) and to keep the employees just barely happy enough to prefer their job to starvation in the streets. The race to the bottom is built into the system.
You are still running with a flawed belief. The race to the bottom is not built into the system. The system is for improving the lives of all who participate in a willing exchange of goods and services, ie a free market. Just because you believe in communism or socialism does not change the facts.
The big exception to this has been the United States since 1980. Anyone complaining about excessive taxation or regulation today ought to read up on what US law looked like in 1960 or so.
Anyone who complains the USA doesn't have enough taxation and regulation needs to read Alexis de Tocqueville'sDemocracy in America. The one problem with the era it was written in was slavery.
They're one and only job is to make money for their shareholders.
No, the one and only job of a corporation is to benefit the common or public good. In return for doing they are given limited liability. The first two corporations granted charters were the Dutch East India Company in 1602 and the British East India Company in 1604 just for this reason. The Dutch and British believed trade benefited the public yet shipping was risky. Both companies were shipping companies shipping cargo like tea from India to Europe, however ship owners were liable for the loss of cargo as well as crew and passengers. If any cargo was lost due to hurricanes or pirates the shipping company was liable for that loss. So government gave their investors limited liability with the understanding that if a company no longer serves the public good it's charter can be revoked. Of course as Thomas Jefferson foresaw and warned about the corporate aristocracy that "would dare already to challenge our government to a trial of strength and bid defiance to the laws of our country." Corporations no longer have to fight government, they write laws now.
Also capitalism is not the enemy, the corporate aristocracy is the enemy. Do you really think you'd be sitting there surfing the web with enough to eat if not for capitalism?
Goods can be scarce on the global market but still have a production excess in the local economy. If i'm not mistaken, this would produce high profits for the people producing the excess.
Yea, higher profits until a competitor starts exporting as well. Or the market is flooded with the product. Then prices drop.
No such competition exists for things like electricity and water (at least in most cities). For those products, you can neither decide to purchase from a competitor nor decide not to purchase at all.
Well, you can "kinda sorta" - you could build an outhouse in your backyard or a full septic tank in your backyard, provided your local building code allows it. You could install a rainwater collector, filtration system, or simply purchase what water you need from an alternate supplier (though at the cost per gallon, that's suicidal). You could, provided the groundwater quality in your area isn't shit and again that local building codes would allow it, even dig your own well and install your own pump.
Some places have outlawed new septic systems, instead they require hook ups to the municipal system. At the same tyme though composing toilets are being used more and more. Some places have also outlawed rainwater collection. In Colorado for instance they are illegal. Legally you, people, do not have rights to the water that falls on their land. The state has all rights. Which it gave away when it agreed to the Colrado River Compact. Even though the river doesn't run through California, CA now has "rights" to some of it's water. As does Mexico.
You could install a gas/propane/etc generator, or solar cells and some battery storage, if you want to try to go without being "plugged in" to the electric grid
Of course, good luck managing to do this in any major city or if you have kids, unless you're Amish or Mennonite. Raise kids in that environment, and the local constabulary will be up your ass with "child welfare" authorities in tow, looking for any excuse they can manufacture to take your kids away and force you to pay up for local utilities...
Actually more and more places are getting off the grid friendly, as well as homeschooling friendly. Many states and local governments offer help such as rebates for alternative energy systems, DSIRE is a database of what is offered.
I grew up gardening and using less than half of my mom's backyard, with plenty of sun, we could grow enough food for most of the year.
The pile of cash is in the 401k in case we get a decline and get an entry point. I do expect they'll raise tax rates sort of nuking our 401k's if they don't try to rob them outright.
I doubt they'll tax 401Ks, they are specifically set up to delay taxes. What is deposited in them has taxes deferred until money is withdrawn. If government went ahead and started taxing the money deposited, or raised the taxes on them, then there'd be public outcry.
I'm very sorry about your disability. Even in good times, it's not enough to survive on your own.
Thanks. It would be easier financially if I had someone, a roommate, to share living expenses with. But I've had roommates before and they didn't work out. My sister is helping me though, because there's trouble with my disability she has given me some money.
Right now, there's still a demand for things like maids, etc. but what about in a few years, or even more long term, what about in 30 years? Will there still be a demand for cleaners?
In 30 years, who knows. If however a person can't learn something new in that tyme, hell at least start in a few years, it's their own fault. The one place where I see a potential problem is with seniors who plan to retire in several years. They may have to put off retirement. If however a person finds his or her self in that situation then it's their own fault for not planning.
Even more important short term, what are those maids your sister hires paid? US minimum wage, full time, is about the same amount as I get in government student aid, and I don't have any kids to support...
I don't know how much they make but I bet it's more than minimum wages. Hell as a student I had a similar job, my title was house cleaner which was just another name for janitor. I started that job being paid more than minimum pay, got a raise after 60 days then got more raises.
Could your sister still afford to hire maids if they were paid a living wage?
How stupid can you get? Unless they are independently wealthy they have to make more than a living wage, they are alive afterall.
Long term, I simply don't think any of the "menial labor" jobs will be left.
Luddites were saying that centuries ago and it's still not true. Why even today we still have people who shear sheep, spin threads, and weave clothes. They even make a living doing so. Etsy is one market people can sell their wares at though there are others. I didn't even need to search for those links just now, I have them bookmarked because I am interested in them and thought about doing something like it myself.
Your economic understanding is so much screwed that I don't think this will help, but anyway...
Tariffs and regulations are not central planning. Central planning means (usually) that all business is owned by state and nobody can start their own business independently on government (and when I say can't, it's not just they need some paperwork to do it, it really means that they can't).
No, your understanding is what is lacking. What do you think tariffs and regulations do if not make it hard for people to start businesses independently of government?
Tariffs, in this discussion, only relate to the foreign markets. You can have perfectly internal free market (which means how the price of goods is determined).
And if my business is importation my business is not free of government.
Every country has regulations, because it's very inefficient to e.g. have people killed on bad airplanes due to some cheapskate "businessman" who doesn't care about security, only short-term profits.
Except how is the "businessman" going to make money when fliers won't buy tickets and gets sued into oblivion and possibly charged with murder? That does not need big government, just an impartial justice system.
Your problem is that you want see the world in black and white categories, while it isn't.
Your problem is that you think you can read my mind, but you are dead wrong.
Meanwhile the poor pay payroll taxes, excise taxes, sales taxes, state taxes and more, all while the rich laughs at them for being so docile and obedient.
Again HAHA!!! The more you earn the higher your income tax, and that includes payroll taxes. Actually employers pay half or more of the taxes. For instance FICA, your employer pays half of that. You obviously missed where the top tax rate is 35%. The poor pay no where near that much in income taxes. The more you spend the higher you pay in stales tax. If you're poor you shouldn't be buying iPods or iPhones. If you're poor you shouldn't be buying large screen TVs. If you're poor you shouldn't be having children. What you should be doing is investing in your future, by first getting education or training that will lead to higher pay. Once you can pay your bills you should be saving money and putting some into stocks and bonds.
Currently I am disabled and have been on disability for years. I am hoping to start working soon though and when I do I'll save as much as I can so I start taking classes again, I was a college student when I had the accident that caused my disability.
If you don't know about economics perhaps you shouldn't be commenting on how things should be.
Falcon
Oh and because I was a student from a low income family I didn't have insurance when I had the accident yet I still got medical care. I was medivaced to the hospital by helicopter, where I stayed while in a coma. After I came out of the coma I was transferred from the hospital to a rehabilitation house. My medical bills came to more than $120,000 and I was still treated despite the hospital, doctors, and rehab house not knowing if they will ever get paid. Because I paid into it when I did work I also get Social Security Income. Unfortunately since last year the SSA has been messing around with my SSI, in part because of Medicare. Which sucks, yet Congress and Obama will make other's health care just as bad.
The results of a Google search for "work abroad in China" will return results for "work abroad" "work china" and "abroad china". The 3 million results mean exactly shit because you don't know how many are about working aboard in China.
You obviously didn't even bother to look at the Google results. If you had you would have seen that the first result was Jobs in China. I see no reason to continue.
The protectionist law Smoot-Hawley Tariff Act [wikipedia.org], which became law in 1930, led to the Great Depression
Sorry, that's yet another right wing free trader myth with absolutely no basis in reality. The stock market collapse took place in October, 1929.
I phrased it wrong. The Smoot-Hawley Tariff Act made the depression last longer and get worse than it would have without the act being law. Read what the Department of State says. Before President Hoover signed it 1000 economists urged him to veto the act. Then as Info Please says, "U.S. foreign trade suffered a sharp decline, and the depression intensified."
So then people, perhaps you, will say FDR's policies brought the Great Depression to an end. HAHA! FDR came to office on 4 March 1933 yet the Great Depression bottomed in 1932. The "U.S. economy was growing again by 1933, and technically the United States was not in recession from 1933 to 1937." The Great Depression may of seemed to last longer, but that's partially because of the Recession of 1937-38.
yeah right.... those at top had lotsa tax cuts and they accelerated offshoring. Meanwhile they want to continue wars in middle east. Hello... guess what funds the military? Taxes! So pay up for what you started.
Yea right. NOT!!! Most libertarians opposed the invasion of Afghanistan and Iraq. Libertarians are calling for Afghanistan and Iraqi withdrawals. And to head you off, they are also saying Iran should not be the new Iraq. They also are for reducing the size of the military. At least try to look into things before making accusations.
OK, but they own the police (SEC)
Citation needed.
so what are us commoners gonna do?
People themselves can request states revoke corporate charters among other things.
Which is why I think the current course (both in the US and Europe) will eventually lead to complete economic ruin for a very large part of the population. As more and more work is automated, less people will obviously be employed, even though the same amount of production is maintained.
If that were the end of it yes, but the march of progress, science, and technology creates new jobs. No, the problem is that more and more jobs are specialized or compartmentalized with less and less skills easily transferable. Years ago people had the same outlook as you're showing, they were afraid robots and other technology would make physical work and skills obsolete. Did they? No they didn't. If you want a good steady job that always requires workers, try plumbing, heating, and air-conditioning.
This isn't even just manufacturing, automated checkout lines, cleaning, etc. and all the profit will of course (as is happening now) be pocketed by the shareholders and CEO's.
Service industries such as maids are growing. My sister used to do all the house cleaning herself but now that she runs her own business it saves her the tyme needed by hiring a maid to come once a week. Though only a few hours a week such a worker can hire out to several different clients a week. My sister also pays for lawn care and landscaping. Another area of job growth is in health care, especially with boomers starting to retire and people living longer lives.
You're forgetting that many of the people who moved off the farms did so because they were forced out by corporate take-overs.
Not more than 200 years ago, and immigration from rural to urban settings were happening then. Your charge that corporations forced people to move fails.
So all you "free flow of capital" guys can tell me about it when the bombs are falling and the troops are standing at your door with dogs and guns at 5 am. This happened to my Uncle and Grandfather when the Russians stopped by to chat. Think it can't happen here? Think again.
I'll turn that around to when it's US officers and troops at your door. Think it can't happen here? Look at Ruby Ridge and the Waco seige. After the Oklahoma City bombingTimothy McVeigh cited Waco. Or look at what happened after Obama won the presidential election, many people ran to gun shops to buy weapons in the fear that Obama would make them illegal. Hell there are still people who believe Obama wants to ban guns.
corporate executives who can afford to live comfortably in any country they wish were, and still are, quite happy to accumulate money while selling people who work in the USA (i.e. peasants) down the river.
Since Americans, in your scenario, can't afford what corporations make who is their buyers? And who owns those corporations? If you've been working but you aren't investing you're a fool.
First off, it is harder to immigrate to other countries than it is to immigrate to the United States, so Americans will not be going overseas to work.
Really? Not at all. Transitions Abroad has stories from people who did that. Verge magazine does too. Googling work abroad in China returns more than 3 million results. Even if only one-in-one thousand is about working in China that's still 3000 results.
I have been looking into it, because I'd like to do it myself. In a few years I want to go to Brazil as part of a study abroad program, then maybe go to China.
Slashdot Mirror
Plain wrong. The payroll tax is capped, meaning that it will present itself to be a lower percentage for high earners.
TROLL!!! I've already provided the top tax rate, which is 35%. No other income pays nearly as much. Since you keep on making things up I will not continue trying to have a rational discussion with you.
Falcon
So where do you live, exactly?
The Twin Cities of Minneapolis/St Paul with a population of more than 3 million. Two block from me there's a privately owned convince store some of my neighbors work at, with many more small businesses on the same street. Several blocks in the opposite direction there's more small businesses. I'd say the area was Asian however there are also African shops, a cafe, and a German restaurant in walking distance. In a third direction there's more independent businesses. The fourth direction has nothing, the street ends in a "T". My sister has her own business, in accounting, with offices downtown.
However it's not just here with a large population. I moved here from Orlando, FL. There I knew people who owned their own business as well.
And there are a LOT more small businesses in Europe than in the U.S
Citation needed. Looking for myself, I found where the European Commission says "48% of Europeans agree with the statement 'You should not start a business if it might fail', compared with just 19% in the United States". According to the EC Europeans are more risk adverse that Americans not less. Continuing to look I found the article The United States Is the New Europe which says "While the government is hiring, the private sector is losing millions of jobs rather than creating them." It goes on about how Obama wants to make the US more like Europe, and that some of his policies harm small businesses. Continue... Again the EC provides something, Fact and figures about the EUs Small and Medium Enterprise (SME) says that more than 99% of Europe's businesses are SMEs.
Of those the average number of employees is 2, but some have more than 10 employees. A quick calculation says that for every one business that has 10 employees there has to be 10 businesses with only one employee, rounding error.
As for the business travellers--that was exactly my point. They shouldn't be flying at all, but the real reason they are doing it is not because they need to, but because they enjoy it
Some business has to be done face to face, and not via video. There's just too much communications that video misses. People may be just as unlikely to trust video conferencing for business as they would be for tele-surgery or remote surgery.
They want to "network," play golf and socialize ,and basically waste all of our money (whether as investors or customers paying higher prices for products). It's a pretty appalling practice in this day and age!
I knew one person who ran her own business as a web designer and she frequently flew. I find it highly unlikely that she, or most any other business owner, would waste money flying when video works. Fact is is video does not work all the tyme.
Falcon
You assert that corporations today actually try to pay employees more than the bare minimum they can get away with?
I did not say that, or anything like it. Employers, not all but most, will pay what the market will take or demands. And the market? It's the workers. If enough workers with specific education, skills, or training demand higher pay and refuse to work otherwise employers will have to pay that, that is if they can. Now if the compensation demand is too high, as it was for the Detroit auto makers before the bailout, they will go out of business.
They charge their customers less than the maximum they can get away with?
I'm starting to think you're trolling now. Bye.
Falcon
I have to say that Adobe tech support is quite possibly the absolute worst tech support I've ever seen from a major company.
For me that distinction goes to Gateway. The first PC I bought was from them and every tyme I called tech support, almost once a month in the first year, I'd be asked if I recently installed anything. If so I was told they do not support that, the only way to get the support is if I uninstall it or reinstall Windows and nothing else. They didn't get much more business from me.
Falcon
One serious flaw in capitalism is that companies don't want to compete because it's difficult and generally not very profitable.
That's not a flaw of capitalism, the flaw is in you. Capitalism is competition, one private owner compeats with another private owner.
Falcon
Why can't we use people in prison for low level cheap phone centers?
Prison labor can't be used to compeat against freemen. How would you like to compeat against prison labor?
Falcon
I'd be thrilled to find a place here where small, independent businesses are actually thriving, but one doesn't exist.
Maybe where you live small businesses may be hard to find but not where I am. My sister runs her own business as do others I know or knew. I'm hoping to start my own small business. Now I know it's hard in some places, like Europe, but not in the US. Here's the small business stats from the US Census Bureau. The stats are a bit out of date, the latest numbers are from 2004 but I doubt the numbers have changed that much since then. One thing I find revealing is where it says "Since 1997, however, nonemployers have grown faster than employer firms." Nonemployers are the self-employed.
Also remember the vast majority of air travel is for business purposes, and those people are under the impression that they *don't* have a choice to just not fly.
Then they aren't paying attention. There's GoToMeeting as well as other ways to hold meeting online. Why businesses don't even need permanent offices now, they can rent temporary or shared office space now. Need to meet a client? Rent an office for a day. That is if meeting in a restaurant or cafe will not work. These offices even have broadband access, heck Barnes and Noble book stores have free wifi.
Falcon
I know some people who run their own businesses proving you wrong. My sister is one of them, with friends of hers she started an accounting business. She used to work for Ernst & Young but no longer.
Falcon
Their strategy is to keep most of their customers just barely satisfied to come back to them rather than the competition (keeping in mind that's what the competition is also doing) and to keep the employees just barely happy enough to prefer their job to starvation in the streets. The race to the bottom is built into the system.
You are still running with a flawed belief. The race to the bottom is not built into the system. The system is for improving the lives of all who participate in a willing exchange of goods and services, ie a free market. Just because you believe in communism or socialism does not change the facts.
Falcon
The big exception to this has been the United States since 1980. Anyone complaining about excessive taxation or regulation today ought to read up on what US law looked like in 1960 or so.
Anyone who complains the USA doesn't have enough taxation and regulation needs to read Alexis de Tocqueville's Democracy in America. The one problem with the era it was written in was slavery.
Falcon
They're one and only job is to make money for their shareholders.
No, the one and only job of a corporation is to benefit the common or public good. In return for doing they are given limited liability. The first two corporations granted charters were the Dutch East India Company in 1602 and the British East India Company in 1604 just for this reason. The Dutch and British believed trade benefited the public yet shipping was risky. Both companies were shipping companies shipping cargo like tea from India to Europe, however ship owners were liable for the loss of cargo as well as crew and passengers. If any cargo was lost due to hurricanes or pirates the shipping company was liable for that loss. So government gave their investors limited liability with the understanding that if a company no longer serves the public good it's charter can be revoked. Of course as Thomas Jefferson foresaw and warned about the corporate aristocracy that "would dare already to challenge our government to a trial of strength and bid defiance to the laws of our country." Corporations no longer have to fight government, they write laws now.
Also capitalism is not the enemy, the corporate aristocracy is the enemy. Do you really think you'd be sitting there surfing the web with enough to eat if not for capitalism?
Falcon
Goods can be scarce on the global market but still have a production excess in the local economy. If i'm not mistaken, this would produce high profits for the people producing the excess.
Yea, higher profits until a competitor starts exporting as well. Or the market is flooded with the product. Then prices drop.
Falcon
No such competition exists for things like electricity and water (at least in most cities). For those products, you can neither decide to purchase from a competitor nor decide not to purchase at all.
Well, you can "kinda sorta" - you could build an outhouse in your backyard or a full septic tank in your backyard, provided your local building code allows it. You could install a rainwater collector, filtration system, or simply purchase what water you need from an alternate supplier (though at the cost per gallon, that's suicidal). You could, provided the groundwater quality in your area isn't shit and again that local building codes would allow it, even dig your own well and install your own pump.
Some places have outlawed new septic systems, instead they require hook ups to the municipal system. At the same tyme though composing toilets are being used more and more. Some places have also outlawed rainwater collection. In Colorado for instance they are illegal. Legally you, people, do not have rights to the water that falls on their land. The state has all rights. Which it gave away when it agreed to the Colrado River Compact. Even though the river doesn't run through California, CA now has "rights" to some of it's water. As does Mexico.
You could install a gas/propane/etc generator, or solar cells and some battery storage, if you want to try to go without being "plugged in" to the electric grid
Go Off the grid.
Of course, good luck managing to do this in any major city or if you have kids, unless you're Amish or Mennonite. Raise kids in that environment, and the local constabulary will be up your ass with "child welfare" authorities in tow, looking for any excuse they can manufacture to take your kids away and force you to pay up for local utilities...
Actually more and more places are getting off the grid friendly, as well as homeschooling friendly. Many states and local governments offer help such as rebates for alternative energy systems, DSIRE is a database of what is offered.
Falcon
You seem to be assuming a zero-sum game here. That a company's gain is automatically the customer's loss.
Fuse that notion with the 'broken window fallacy' attitude, another popular misconception, and the potential for confusion is limitless.
As TFA shows, you've got it backwards. The fallacy is in believing acquisitions automatically bring customers value.
Falcon
I've only recently considered gardening.
I grew up gardening and using less than half of my mom's backyard, with plenty of sun, we could grow enough food for most of the year.
The pile of cash is in the 401k in case we get a decline and get an entry point. I do expect they'll raise tax rates sort of nuking our 401k's if they don't try to rob them outright.
I doubt they'll tax 401Ks, they are specifically set up to delay taxes. What is deposited in them has taxes deferred until money is withdrawn. If government went ahead and started taxing the money deposited, or raised the taxes on them, then there'd be public outcry.
I'm very sorry about your disability. Even in good times, it's not enough to survive on your own.
Thanks. It would be easier financially if I had someone, a roommate, to share living expenses with. But I've had roommates before and they didn't work out. My sister is helping me though, because there's trouble with my disability she has given me some money.
Falcon
Right now, there's still a demand for things like maids, etc. but what about in a few years, or even more long term, what about in 30 years? Will there still be a demand for cleaners?
In 30 years, who knows. If however a person can't learn something new in that tyme, hell at least start in a few years, it's their own fault. The one place where I see a potential problem is with seniors who plan to retire in several years. They may have to put off retirement. If however a person finds his or her self in that situation then it's their own fault for not planning.
Even more important short term, what are those maids your sister hires paid? US minimum wage, full time, is about the same amount as I get in government student aid, and I don't have any kids to support...
I don't know how much they make but I bet it's more than minimum wages. Hell as a student I had a similar job, my title was house cleaner which was just another name for janitor. I started that job being paid more than minimum pay, got a raise after 60 days then got more raises.
Could your sister still afford to hire maids if they were paid a living wage?
How stupid can you get? Unless they are independently wealthy they have to make more than a living wage, they are alive afterall.
Long term, I simply don't think any of the "menial labor" jobs will be left.
Luddites were saying that centuries ago and it's still not true. Why even today we still have people who shear sheep, spin threads, and weave clothes. They even make a living doing so. Etsy is one market people can sell their wares at though there are others. I didn't even need to search for those links just now, I have them bookmarked because I am interested in them and thought about doing something like it myself.
Falcon
Your economic understanding is so much screwed that I don't think this will help, but anyway...
Tariffs and regulations are not central planning. Central planning means (usually) that all business is owned by state and nobody can start their own business independently on government (and when I say can't, it's not just they need some paperwork to do it, it really means that they can't).
No, your understanding is what is lacking. What do you think tariffs and regulations do if not make it hard for people to start businesses independently of government?
Tariffs, in this discussion, only relate to the foreign markets. You can have perfectly internal free market (which means how the price of goods is determined).
And if my business is importation my business is not free of government.
Every country has regulations, because it's very inefficient to e.g. have people killed on bad airplanes due to some cheapskate "businessman" who doesn't care about security, only short-term profits.
Except how is the "businessman" going to make money when fliers won't buy tickets and gets sued into oblivion and possibly charged with murder? That does not need big government, just an impartial justice system.
Your problem is that you want see the world in black and white categories, while it isn't.
Your problem is that you think you can read my mind, but you are dead wrong.
Falcon
Meanwhile the poor pay payroll taxes, excise taxes, sales taxes, state taxes and more, all while the rich laughs at them for being so docile and obedient.
Again HAHA!!! The more you earn the higher your income tax, and that includes payroll taxes. Actually employers pay half or more of the taxes. For instance FICA, your employer pays half of that. You obviously missed where the top tax rate is 35%. The poor pay no where near that much in income taxes. The more you spend the higher you pay in stales tax. If you're poor you shouldn't be buying iPods or iPhones. If you're poor you shouldn't be buying large screen TVs. If you're poor you shouldn't be having children. What you should be doing is investing in your future, by first getting education or training that will lead to higher pay. Once you can pay your bills you should be saving money and putting some into stocks and bonds.
Currently I am disabled and have been on disability for years. I am hoping to start working soon though and when I do I'll save as much as I can so I start taking classes again, I was a college student when I had the accident that caused my disability.
If you don't know about economics perhaps you shouldn't be commenting on how things should be.
Falcon
Oh and because I was a student from a low income family I didn't have insurance when I had the accident yet I still got medical care. I was medivaced to the hospital by helicopter, where I stayed while in a coma. After I came out of the coma I was transferred from the hospital to a rehabilitation house. My medical bills came to more than $120,000 and I was still treated despite the hospital, doctors, and rehab house not knowing if they will ever get paid. Because I paid into it when I did work I also get Social Security Income. Unfortunately since last year the SSA has been messing around with my SSI, in part because of Medicare. Which sucks, yet Congress and Obama will make other's health care just as bad.
The results of a Google search for "work abroad in China" will return results for "work abroad" "work china" and "abroad china". The 3 million results mean exactly shit because you don't know how many are about working aboard in China.
You obviously didn't even bother to look at the Google results. If you had you would have seen that the first result was Jobs in China. I see no reason to continue.
Falcon
The protectionist law Smoot-Hawley Tariff Act [wikipedia.org], which became law in 1930, led to the Great Depression
Sorry, that's yet another right wing free trader myth with absolutely no basis in reality. The stock market collapse took place in October, 1929.
I phrased it wrong. The Smoot-Hawley Tariff Act made the depression last longer and get worse than it would have without the act being law. Read what the Department of State says. Before President Hoover signed it 1000 economists urged him to veto the act. Then as Info Please says, "U.S. foreign trade suffered a sharp decline, and the depression intensified."
So then people, perhaps you, will say FDR's policies brought the Great Depression to an end. HAHA! FDR came to office on 4 March 1933 yet the Great Depression bottomed in 1932. The "U.S. economy was growing again by 1933, and technically the United States was not in recession from 1933 to 1937." The Great Depression may of seemed to last longer, but that's partially because of the Recession of 1937-38.
Falcon
yeah right.... those at top had lotsa tax cuts and they accelerated offshoring. Meanwhile they want to continue wars in middle east. Hello... guess what funds the military? Taxes! So pay up for what you started.
Yea right. NOT!!! Most libertarians opposed the invasion of Afghanistan and Iraq. Libertarians are calling for Afghanistan and Iraqi withdrawals. And to head you off, they are also saying Iran should not be the new Iraq. They also are for reducing the size of the military. At least try to look into things before making accusations.
OK, but they own the police (SEC)
Citation needed.
so what are us commoners gonna do?
People themselves can request states revoke corporate charters among other things.
Falcon
Which is why I think the current course (both in the US and Europe) will eventually lead to complete economic ruin for a very large part of the population. As more and more work is automated, less people will obviously be employed, even though the same amount of production is maintained.
If that were the end of it yes, but the march of progress, science, and technology creates new jobs. No, the problem is that more and more jobs are specialized or compartmentalized with less and less skills easily transferable. Years ago people had the same outlook as you're showing, they were afraid robots and other technology would make physical work and skills obsolete. Did they? No they didn't. If you want a good steady job that always requires workers, try plumbing, heating, and air-conditioning.
This isn't even just manufacturing, automated checkout lines, cleaning, etc. and all the profit will of course (as is happening now) be pocketed by the shareholders and CEO's.
Service industries such as maids are growing. My sister used to do all the house cleaning herself but now that she runs her own business it saves her the tyme needed by hiring a maid to come once a week. Though only a few hours a week such a worker can hire out to several different clients a week. My sister also pays for lawn care and landscaping. Another area of job growth is in health care, especially with boomers starting to retire and people living longer lives.
Falcon
You're forgetting that many of the people who moved off the farms did so because they were forced out by corporate take-overs.
Not more than 200 years ago, and immigration from rural to urban settings were happening then. Your charge that corporations forced people to move fails.
Falcon
So all you "free flow of capital" guys can tell me about it when the bombs are falling and the troops are standing at your door with dogs and guns at 5 am. This happened to my Uncle and Grandfather when the Russians stopped by to chat. Think it can't happen here? Think again.
I'll turn that around to when it's US officers and troops at your door. Think it can't happen here? Look at Ruby Ridge and the Waco seige. After the Oklahoma City bombing Timothy McVeigh cited Waco. Or look at what happened after Obama won the presidential election, many people ran to gun shops to buy weapons in the fear that Obama would make them illegal. Hell there are still people who believe Obama wants to ban guns.
corporate executives who can afford to live comfortably in any country they wish were, and still are, quite happy to accumulate money while selling people who work in the USA (i.e. peasants) down the river.
Since Americans, in your scenario, can't afford what corporations make who is their buyers? And who owns those corporations? If you've been working but you aren't investing you're a fool.
Falcon
First off, it is harder to immigrate to other countries than it is to immigrate to the United States, so Americans will not be going overseas to work.
Really? Not at all. Transitions Abroad has stories from people who did that. Verge magazine does too. Googling work abroad in China returns more than 3 million results. Even if only one-in-one thousand is about working in China that's still 3000 results.
I have been looking into it, because I'd like to do it myself. In a few years I want to go to Brazil as part of a study abroad program, then maybe go to China.
Ni hao, ni hao ma?
Falcon