Re:I've been using vi for so long...
on
The Birth of vi
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· Score: 1
> In vi you only have to hit ESC once to get into command mode. After that you can type commands to your heart's content without the oppression of hitting some hard-to-reach escape sequence every time you want to do something.
Right, so ESC shouldn't be included in this debate, since unless you're specifically switching from insert mode.
You should also note that a lot of commands (ie not movement) require a ':' which is actually a shift-; and so somewhat equivalent to ctrl-x in that it's also two keys.
Re:I've been using vi for so long...
on
The Birth of vi
·
· Score: 1
> than to hit ESC and:.
I don't think including ESC is correct; that's for switching modes, not for executing a command. You only have to do it if you're not already in command mode, which is often the case since part of the 'vi' mind set is to group your commands together.
I also think you should mention that ':' is actually 'shift-;' - ie is a more direct equivalent to 'crtl-x' in that it's two keys.
the above two posts, IMO, summarise this whole issue.
does it look significantly similar to Apple's product? yes. is that a problem? only if apple have a valid patent on it. do apple have a patent on it? yes is it valid?...
that question was left hanging, I think.
1) is the patent valid in the US? I mean, it does seem kind of generic. I notice from the patent diagrams, that the most significant difference, the buttons, is not detailed at all (just two concentric circles). 2) is this valid in Taiwan (and/or other markets they are targetting)? In the patent document, it only lists Japan. Perhaps there are some agreements where they are automatically applicable elsewhere?
I wonder if it matters if I call Dell China instead of Dell . I suppose I could always use VoIP, but I would have to do something to make sure the phone call costs aren't too significant. Remember, free phone calls in one country, aren't free or even dial-able, in another (usually - sometimes there's a special provider number you can dial).
Really - why is the parent moderated as 'funny'? It's not funny at all. Was it meant to be funny?
The discussion isn't about the cmd-w, but about the 'x' on the tabs on their web browser. I'm used to having the 'x' in the same place all the time, not have it move around all over the place depending on which tab and how many tabs I'm looking at. Well, that's not really about muscle memory, because your brain still needs to interact with the screen to hit the target. It's more about a UI convention/habit. Sure. It probably has a lot to do with getting old too;)
The other examples of issues I have trouble with are: 1) menu bar at the top of the screen, 2) click to focus, and 3) clicking brings window to foreground. There's no way to change these 'features' to what I'm used to. Well, you can change the "click to focus" behavior, I think I tried this once, using some 3rd party tool, but it sucked (for me) because the windows would automatically pop to the front.
not sure about the others, though. It's fairly irrelevant though. Every system has conventions that are difficult to change or work around. ..but that's my point. Linux and MS Windows have work arounds to make it work the way I want, but OS X doesn't. Perhaps there are things that can't be worked around, but not for what I want. I can make a Linux GUI behave identically to 4Dwm (not surprisingly, since they're both X11 based), and I'm told even MS Windows can be made to work that way too (by another 4Dwm user - I mean, ex-user).
It seems that the Mac conventions have lasted the longest - with most desktops today copying Apple conventions. After all, MacOS was around long before Linux, Is it fair to say MacOS is still around? If so, then I think it's fair enough to say that Linux has been around as long as Unix.
and systems including MS Windows and Linux have taken inspiration from it. Indeed, though they don't force users into a new way of doing things.
You don't have to use it. Indeed I don't; and I don't, mostly (like I said, I bought some apps which I still use). I used to - I tried to like it, but decided not.
I must say that I find it ironic that a *nix user is complaining about a GUI behavior - as it is typically those users who bemoan using a GUI at all, saying that real users use the keyboard. Well, we're not all the same, and not the same all of the time either. If I'm using a GUI, then I'm mostly clicking/etc - esp. on aqua where there are few short cuts (much better on MS Windows, for example), and obvious keys like 'left' and 'right' don't do what I expect (move the selected option left/right)....but I digress.
You left out the crucial part...what to *do*....or is that one of those USian things, where it's a double negative but doesn't mean a double negative. "Come here deer. Ain't you just gonna not love this purple policeman I ain't got here?". That'll have the deer (and the coppers) confused. Oh, this is/., so I suppose that should be "...ain't got hear."
Yes, I'm a SCO lawyer actually...but seriously, what you say all seems fair enough....but I can't help wonder what the point is in being allowed to carry a fire arm, if you're not allowed to use it at certain times of the year (for personal protection/defence/whatever)....
No, I'm not American, and don't really get this whole 'gun thing'.
So, I guess it's possible to claim entrapment, since it is not illegal to own, carry, or even fire a gun (or is it?) - surely it's not illegal to shoot fake deer, is it? Couldn't they just claim they knew it was fake - or is that too much of a stretch?
> because I was speaking with a Mac user - where CMD-W works perfectly, and is the standard shortcut.
Sure. I have no trouble with cmd-w, per se. That's not what this discussion is about.
> > It's just another example of Apple thinking they know better than I how my muscles work. > > No, it's just an example of a different system than you are used to, not active contempt. > You could always reconfigure your shortcuts to suit your muscle memory, if you were to use a Mac.
But that's the problem. It isn't possible to do that.
The discussion isn't about the cmd-w, but about the 'x' on the tabs on their web browser. I'm used to having the 'x' in the same place all the time, not have it move around all over the place depending on which tab and how many tabs I'm looking at.
Note the recent change in Firefox's default behaviour, which was to make it the same as Safari's - the 'x' is attached to the tabs. It was annoying that they did that, since I have been using the other behaviour for a long time and saw no reason to change. However, it didn't take long for me to discover the method to change it back. As far as I'm aware, there's no such way to make Safari put the 'x' in the same place all the time (ie on the far right of the window....and that's just one example (if it's true). The other examples of issues I have trouble with are: 1) menu bar at the top of the screen, 2) click to focus, and 3) clicking brings window to foreground. There's no way to change these 'features' to what I'm used to. On some Linux window managed, for example, you can make it behave the Apple way, or the IRIX way, or the MS Windows way (pretty much). I'm told you can also make MS Windows behave the IRIX way, to a large extent. It only seems to be Apple that think that everyone must be the same and must do it their way.
In many ways, I think Apple is worse than Microsoft. If they had the same market share as Microsoft, I think they would have just as bad business practices too (though I'm not sure).
Re:Cell providers are the problem, not the phone
on
Inside Apple's iPhone
·
· Score: 2, Interesting
Well, I just got to play with a preproduction Nokia N95 for a few weeks, and I have to say that I like it - a lot. I haven't much cared for their previous offerings, but the N95 is very nice.
I'm not sure what your point is. Are you saying I should change just to use Safari? That's the whole argument *against* using Safari - if I use Firefox, I don't have to change...if I were to change, I might as well just click on the tab's 'x' to close it.
It's just another example of Apple thinking they know better than I how my muscles work.
No, we're not all the same; *I* work different*ly*.
However, do you think it's unreasonable for other people to be a little more forward thinking and/or socially aware - ie to vote for the company behind the search with their 'click', in some way?
Well, I had to use it for a few years to give it a chance, didn't I?
I still don't like it, so, on my powerbook at least, I've switched to ubuntu. That has it's problems too, but at least the UI is flexible enough for me to get it working that way I want. You see, I'm used to using SGI IRIX 4Dwm, with many years of using it. I've given Apple's UI a chance, and I still find it doesn't work very well, so I've switched to Ubuntu for most work. I'm told that even MS Windows allows you to change it's behaviour to work the way you want (I've not tried it though); it's only Apple that thinks they know better.
I still have some Mac apps that are good enough for me to want to keep OS X on my Mini - iMovie, iDVD, FCP, DSP, Airfoil, Addressbook (for typing SMS messages from my Bluetooth connected phone), among others.
Also, Apple Macs are damn good machines (IMO) - pretty reliable (though my Powerbook is getting somewhat flaky these days), good looking and all the connectors I want - they're also one of the few laptops that ship with full size firewire ports (for which I have some drives/etc). It's the GUI I don't care for - I wish we didn't have to pay the Apple tax for their OS when I'm just going to over write it with Ubuntu anyway; else I'd be all over a new Intel powerbook (or whatever they're called now).
a mouse click is only one action - if your finger is already on/near the button; which it is as, at the time, I am often scrolling down using the wheel.
ctrl-w, while quick, also requires at least two fingers, and often both hands.
having said that, I use ctrl-w on occasion too - works just fine in firefox too, it's just that firefox gives you the option (and I don't think Safari does, but I could be wrong).
Define 'best', and 'shortest time', and why you want them?
Aren't all the search engines fast enough and get you the results you want most of the time?
What's behind your lack of interest who runs the search engine and you ignoring the reasons others use to choose their search engine? Is it profit - ie use whatever tool gets you to the site you want quickest, thereby wasting less of your valuable time?...or something else?
You explain what you want, not your agenda, I think.
1) I've always used Firefox, since before Safari appeared. 2) I've tried safari. Not that much different, but I don't like some aspects of it. I forget all the reasons, but one of them is that the tabs each have 'x's on them, instead of one on the right, which doesn't fit into the way I view web pages (open many, reading one at a time, closing them as I go). Safari is usable, but I don't see any reason to change. 3) I use Linux and MS Windows as well (at work), so Firefox provides some cross platform uniformity - though not a lot, I think, since the menus are all different/etc/etc. 4) It's free(er?). 5) I like Linky and a few other configurable options, which I don't know how to do in Safari, and since I do know in Firefox, I see no reason to find out - even if it's possible.
The argument that it integrates better doesn't work with me, since I don't much like OS X's interface.
Slashdot Mirror
> In vi you only have to hit ESC once to get into command mode. After that you can type commands to your heart's content without the oppression of hitting some hard-to-reach escape sequence every time you want to do something.
Right, so ESC shouldn't be included in this debate, since unless you're specifically switching from insert mode.
You should also note that a lot of commands (ie not movement) require a ':' which is actually a shift-; and so somewhat equivalent to ctrl-x in that it's also two keys.
> than to hit ESC and :.
I don't think including ESC is correct; that's for switching modes, not for executing a command. You only have to do it if you're not already in command mode, which is often the case since part of the 'vi' mind set is to group your commands together.
I also think you should mention that ':' is actually 'shift-;' - ie is a more direct equivalent to 'crtl-x' in that it's two keys.
the above two posts, IMO, summarise this whole issue.
...
does it look significantly similar to Apple's product? yes.
is that a problem? only if apple have a valid patent on it.
do apple have a patent on it? yes
is it valid?
that question was left hanging, I think.
1) is the patent valid in the US? I mean, it does seem kind of generic. I notice from the patent diagrams, that the most significant difference, the buttons, is not detailed at all (just two concentric circles).
2) is this valid in Taiwan (and/or other markets they are targetting)? In the patent document, it only lists Japan. Perhaps there are some agreements where they are automatically applicable elsewhere?
10?
Sure, I'll do it for you, if you like.
I wonder if it matters if I call Dell China instead of Dell . I suppose I could always use VoIP, but I would have to do something to make sure the phone call costs aren't too significant. Remember, free phone calls in one country, aren't free or even dial-able, in another (usually - sometimes there's a special provider number you can dial).
Really - why is the parent moderated as 'funny'? It's not funny at all. Was it meant to be funny?
Nooo! Say it ain't true!
How can one *unknowingly* lie? If ones doesn't know he/she is lying, then he/she is just wrong, not lying.
> but when "market price" comes out to three cents a day or whatever
Three (US) cents could mean 'a lot' of money to some people. It depends on the cost of living where it's earned, I think.
'Offtopic'???
...or should that be 'sense-of-humour-impaired'?
It's just as on topic as the parent, and I've added some humour too.
Me thinks some people have no sense of humour!
> ...don't shoot it.
...or is that one of those USian things, where it's a double negative but doesn't mean a double negative. "Come here deer. Ain't you just gonna not love this purple policeman I ain't got here?". That'll have the deer (and the coppers) confused. Oh, this is /., so I suppose that should be "...ain't got hear."
You left out the crucial part...what to *do*.
Yes, I'm a SCO lawyer actually. ..but seriously, what you say all seems fair enough....but I can't help wonder what the point is in being allowed to carry a fire arm, if you're not allowed to use it at certain times of the year (for personal protection/defence/whatever)....
No, I'm not American, and don't really get this whole 'gun thing'.
Max.
Fair enough, I guess.
fair enough :)
So, I guess it's possible to claim entrapment, since it is not illegal to own, carry, or even fire a gun (or is it?) - surely it's not illegal to shoot fake deer, is it? Couldn't they just claim they knew it was fake - or is that too much of a stretch?
isn't that entrapment?
> I'm not sure what your point is,
...and that's just one example (if it's true). The other examples of issues I have trouble with are: 1) menu bar at the top of the screen, 2) click to focus, and 3) clicking brings window to foreground. There's no way to change these 'features' to what I'm used to. On some Linux window managed, for example, you can make it behave the Apple way, or the IRIX way, or the MS Windows way (pretty much). I'm told you can also make MS Windows behave the IRIX way, to a large extent. It only seems to be Apple that think that everyone must be the same and must do it their way.
OK...
> because I was speaking with a Mac user - where CMD-W works perfectly, and is the standard shortcut.
Sure. I have no trouble with cmd-w, per se. That's not what this discussion is about.
>
> It's just another example of Apple thinking they know better than I how my muscles work.
>
> No, it's just an example of a different system than you are used to, not active contempt.
> You could always reconfigure your shortcuts to suit your muscle memory, if you were to use a Mac.
But that's the problem. It isn't possible to do that.
The discussion isn't about the cmd-w, but about the 'x' on the tabs on their web browser. I'm used to having the 'x' in the same place all the time, not have it move around all over the place depending on which tab and how many tabs I'm looking at.
Note the recent change in Firefox's default behaviour, which was to make it the same as Safari's - the 'x' is attached to the tabs. It was annoying that they did that, since I have been using the other behaviour for a long time and saw no reason to change. However, it didn't take long for me to discover the method to change it back. As far as I'm aware, there's no such way to make Safari put the 'x' in the same place all the time (ie on the far right of the window.
In many ways, I think Apple is worse than Microsoft. If they had the same market share as Microsoft, I think they would have just as bad business practices too (though I'm not sure).
Well, I just got to play with a preproduction Nokia N95 for a few weeks, and I have to say that I like it - a lot. I haven't much cared for their previous offerings, but the N95 is very nice.
Ditto, and ditto.
Sure, but it doesn't on Linux or MS Windows.
I'm not sure what your point is. Are you saying I should change just to use Safari? That's the whole argument *against* using Safari - if I use Firefox, I don't have to change...if I were to change, I might as well just click on the tab's 'x' to close it.
It's just another example of Apple thinking they know better than I how my muscles work.
No, we're not all the same; *I* work different*ly*.
Max.
Fair enough. That's your agenda.
However, do you think it's unreasonable for other people to be a little more forward thinking and/or socially aware - ie to vote for the company behind the search with their 'click', in some way?
Well, I had to use it for a few years to give it a chance, didn't I?
I still don't like it, so, on my powerbook at least, I've switched to ubuntu. That has it's problems too, but at least the UI is flexible enough for me to get it working that way I want. You see, I'm used to using SGI IRIX 4Dwm, with many years of using it. I've given Apple's UI a chance, and I still find it doesn't work very well, so I've switched to Ubuntu for most work. I'm told that even MS Windows allows you to change it's behaviour to work the way you want (I've not tried it though); it's only Apple that thinks they know better.
I still have some Mac apps that are good enough for me to want to keep OS X on my Mini - iMovie, iDVD, FCP, DSP, Airfoil, Addressbook (for typing SMS messages from my Bluetooth connected phone), among others.
Also, Apple Macs are damn good machines (IMO) - pretty reliable (though my Powerbook is getting somewhat flaky these days), good looking and all the connectors I want - they're also one of the few laptops that ship with full size firewire ports (for which I have some drives/etc). It's the GUI I don't care for - I wish we didn't have to pay the Apple tax for their OS when I'm just going to over write it with Ubuntu anyway; else I'd be all over a new Intel powerbook (or whatever they're called now).
a mouse click is only one action - if your finger is already on/near the button; which it is as, at the time, I am often scrolling down using the wheel.
ctrl-w, while quick, also requires at least two fingers, and often both hands.
having said that, I use ctrl-w on occasion too - works just fine in firefox too, it's just that firefox gives you the option (and I don't think Safari does, but I could be wrong).
Define 'best', and 'shortest time', and why you want them?
...or something else?
Aren't all the search engines fast enough and get you the results you want most of the time?
What's behind your lack of interest who runs the search engine and you ignoring the reasons others use to choose their search engine? Is it profit - ie use whatever tool gets you to the site you want quickest, thereby wasting less of your valuable time?
You explain what you want, not your agenda, I think.
1) I've always used Firefox, since before Safari appeared.
2) I've tried safari. Not that much different, but I don't like some aspects of it. I forget all the reasons, but one of them is that the tabs each have 'x's on them, instead of one on the right, which doesn't fit into the way I view web pages (open many, reading one at a time, closing them as I go). Safari is usable, but I don't see any reason to change.
3) I use Linux and MS Windows as well (at work), so Firefox provides some cross platform uniformity - though not a lot, I think, since the menus are all different/etc/etc.
4) It's free(er?).
5) I like Linky and a few other configurable options, which I don't know how to do in Safari, and since I do know in Firefox, I see no reason to find out - even if it's possible.
The argument that it integrates better doesn't work with me, since I don't much like OS X's interface.