Why is it so necessary to always try and put a label on any group of people with a common binding characteristic or interest? It would be funny to see what someone would define as normal.
It's all subjective anyway...what is normal to one person could be construed as abnormal to others. This whole emphasis on if(geek == true) { geek = "probably autistic";} that's been making waves lately just shows how much of a gap there is in what people know about things and what people perceive about things. It's just spackle to fill up those holes in our consciousness that we sometimes all too readily accept from another POV, instead of actually knowing for ourselves or engaging in critical thought. Now pass me the remote.... Brokaw's about to make me afraid of something else...
I find myself printing out articles I find interesting and possibly useful at some point in time (and when I might not have access to a computer and don't feel like wasting disk space to save). I find myself printing out departmental documentation and correspondance that directly affects my workload. I find myself printing out files I don't want others to have access to on my network before I delete it. I myself printing out screenshots of the various stages of GUI development and design so I have instant access to mockups where I can compare them side by side or at any location away from my computer while I'm looking for new ideas and solutions.
Printed materials offer a conveinance and storage factor that computers will not substitute unless they become omnipotent and completely secured. Why fill up disc space with a 200k bitmap screenshot when I can print it out on one piece of paper and work from that? Why keep personal correspondance on a drive where admin can gain access to it? And what about printed documentation to show your boss that you have addressed each point outlined in his/her work-flow plan when it comes time for performance reviews (which are printed out also)?
One does not need replace the other. This is not a competition.
Aren't they already putting microchips into pets for transmitting identification, etc...? I've always wondered how long it would take before they start doing the same thing to babies, so like if a little kid gets lost in the grocery store an employee can run them over the scanner and know exactly who to contact. If we're talking of implanting technology into the human body, we might as well make it functional too. No more clap on..clap off. Too many unanswered questions though (like backdoor access, getting zapped with noise that would render the circuitry useless, etc...). We've got enough work ahead of us with cloning...
its disingenuous to suggest that the bulk of black role models don't come from the black community itself
where did I state that the bulk of black role models don't come from the black community? What do you have against blacks that would cause you to add your own goofy words to my statements?
The best counter example is Indian/Pakistani/Southwest Asian nationals.
And their history in America dating back to the get-go is...? This is an irrelevant counter arguement, as you try to compare apples to oranges. Here's a counter-counter arguement that is a bit more relevant--look at all the great progress the original Americans -Native Americans- have made. You are thinking globally when the problem is local and specifically tied to US history. Let's keep to the topic... It's obvious that you do not want to understand the repurcussions of institutionalized slavery & racism and how unequal things still are, so I'll just stick to pointing out your errs.
They succeeded because of individual initiative...which is what it takes in this world
Again, we're not talking about the world here. we are talking about the USA. And where does individual initiative come from? Do you think it is an innate characteristic? Programmed into our genetic makeup? Or did the old man with the white beard decide to give it to some colors of people and not others?
The world doesn't knock you down because you are black, it does it because it can...
brilliant! You need to get off the computer and get into philosophy.
Have you ever sat down with any of those managers and found out if they subscribe to the same ideas? Give them that same line you I copied verbatim from your post. Hell, run it by anyone that doesn't fit into your idea of "white". That would be valuable to you. Might open your eyes and mind a little more.
Ask yourself why you believe what you are spouting off (if you even do) and can find more compelling evidence to support it. That's your homework for tonight. Now go on....
Perhaps "role model" is being misinterperted here. African-Americans obviously don't limit themselves to only having other African-Americans as role models. Don't try to place what goes on inside your head inside the heads of others. And you made a very silly conclusion, congrats on demonstrating your mindset so succintly. How about looking at it this way: If you are a member of a portion of Americans that get treated as second-class citizens, you are very aware of environments that are not receptive to others that look like you. Appearance is the easiest way to judge somebody and skin color is paramount. If you observe a group of people in a given setting and you don't see others that look like you (and remember that African-Americans have had a 300+ year history of reasons to distrust and be suspiscious of people that don't look like them), what impressions do you get? How likely would you be to pursue? Not everybody wants to be a martyr.
I use the term role model in the sense that there are other established African-Americans in those professions, setting the precedent that people of all colors can and do work within. I wasn't refering to individuals that rise to great standing within the community or make great contributions to humankind. A role model in this sense of word needn't even be creative or admirable. The fact that they are working within the IT industry would serve as a role model that might inspire more individuals with an interest in computers or whatever to pursue those interests and not be turned away for reasons that you cannot be expected to relate to. Comprende?
man, I knew I shouldn't have peeped this thread again.... anyway, I can see that you are strong in your opinions and I don't know anything about your background and experiences, but mentioning an anecdote such as that and then some unsubstantiated assessments of where the problems are within the "black-american subculture", those seem pretty shoddy tenements to support such a strong conviction. But that's all it takes for some people.
I'm not really sure how all of this relates to my original posting anyway, and it doesn't do any good pointing fingers. Would you not agree that African-Americans are pretty under represented in the IT workplace? And you mentioned role models from the entertainment and sports worlds as a counterpoint to my postulating that these kids lack role models in IT. Music and Sports (but not all sports) are two arenas that African-Americans are gaining acceptance in. Sure kids are going to look up to those types. Who likes being in situations or environments where you don't feel accepted or wanted? Take a stroll through the posts regarding this article and tell me how many non-european-americans would feel welcome (or could relate to the mindset)in this setting. So, role models or not, we still have a problem. You can say what you want about my post, but my experience and opinions are based on this: 34-caucasian, dated strictly African-American women for the past three years, over half of my friends fall into this group, managed several FootLocker stores for 9 years in inner-city areas (where the only time I saw a white guy was when I passed a chrome fixture), and I work for an international company (3,000+ employees just at headquarters alone-- I've yet to see more than 10 black employees not pushing a broom) developing an international software application.
That's where I'm coming from, so I see holes in your reasoning... plus the fact that it's off-topic. I never said anything about you buying anybody anything.
I do. And this is the first job I've had in the last 5 years where I'm not the only white guy... But I am only a role model to certain extent.
What do you do that you consider important and not necessarily self-motivated? I suppose your beliefs compelled you enuff to reply, you might try to focus that drive on something a bit more productive and less cynical...
is it really only a "self-imposed" stereotype when you have just posted 1.) "black society seems to hate anyone that succeeds in the white world", 2.) black americans are "steeped in ignorance and unwilling to make sacrifices to change that", and 3.) your perpetuation of the "white community" idea and its superiority over a black community for not using certain colloquialisms (sic).
think about that when you're feeling more open-minded...
I sure hope more people start becoming aware of the fact that African-Americans are not participating enough in the IT movement. I see kids from all over the world getting involved with computers, but I don't see enough from my own neighborhood. I read an article in Harpers that blamed it on a distrust of technology (for the most part)...but that's a load of BS... It's sentiments like that that keep perpetuating nonsense and provide excuses. The truth is that a lot of kids feel as if they're left outside at a certain point because they don't have the necessary role models to follow. Sure, most kids love to mess around on the computer and get online, but I would say that too many African-American kids don't see IT as a "career for them" because of the "standards" within most IT-oriented companies. Plenty of Black secretaries and maintainence workers...but who's sitting behind the monitors? Just my observations from St. Louis...
and the responses keep coming in at alarming rates. Or is the Blair Hype Project a more suitable name? Nothing wrong with trying to get attention for your product, but doesn't it seem like our media culture has shifted into extremes? Think about the relentless and over-inflated coverage of certain "key" stories and subjects in the media. We've hailed this kind of "originality" and "anti-establishment approach" several times already in the movie industry (and with better product to champion). Are there just more people and "news" propagandists around these days so that we have to repeat everything ad infinitum and leave no miniscule angle uncovered? I'd wager that 6 months from now BHP will have no noticeable effect on the entertainment we can choose from that hasn't already been evolving out of other and more "landmark" films and approaches to movie-making. Put some dumb kids in the woods and convince everybody they've never seen anything like this before. Now THERE'S marketing for ya.
...why is it the most expensive DVD in the bins? They're asking 34.99US$ when the avg is 24. But, I'll agree, it's definately worth the brainwaves as opposed to the Blair Hype Project.
duh... I didn't just fall off the turnip truck ya know. Thanks for trying though, professor obvious. When you are in english, the screen for filling in the domain owner contact info returns errors on each required screen so that you can not get a successful submission.
so how are you supposed to get past the goofy domain owner info errors? Hmmm... what's that saying " if something sounds too good to be true, it probably is " _________________
I would suggest that everyone who believes that the Kansas Board of Education made the right decision pack up and move there. Hell, they might even pay your way... Just imagine it. Sunflowers. Bob Dole. Miles of flat earth created by an old (white) man with a long beard. And none of that silly "education" mixed in with your schooling. Who needs to have an open mind when you've got all that. Might even give you time to help Pat Robertson kill some people he doesn't like. I can see the new license plates already: KANSAS...where ignorance is bliss ________________________________
just one more example of how much Madison Avenue runs this illusion we think of as LIFE. It's about time more people started taking these marketers to task when they really cross the line of "truth in advertising"(an oxymoron). It's all about creating the illusion of choice anyway... and television is such a passive medium that, as one post already mentioned, the company assumed everybody would be too stupid to follow up on the offer. Anybody that watches TV should be compensated.
despite the impression that this story is a 'non-issue' (after all, any job that places greater demands on your waking hours will curb your opportunities for R&R and that is each individuals decision whether they seek balnce or not), I was temporarily pondering over the percentage of guys or gals that get immersed in computers simply cause they ain't "getting any" in the first place. Snowball effect once you start introverting your lifestyle. You do what you know. blah blah blah. get off the box and go out and get some. My awakening was a girlfriend that turned me on... (and introduced me to computers too!)
...and it's working! The fact that Universal is going the litigation route (the least sensible from a technological and economical standpoint) would help a cynic draw the conclusion that the numerous hits and press coverage they've generated in the past couple of days is all part of a marketing campaign to get Universal noticed and establish more of an online prescence. Look at the # of responses in this thread. Savvy marketing. Gotta think outside the box when it comes to getting attention. Too bad they don't follow the same adventerous approach when selecting projects for the big and little screen!
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It's all subjective anyway...what is normal to one person could be construed as abnormal to others. This whole emphasis on if(geek == true) { geek = "probably autistic";} that's been making waves lately just shows how much of a gap there is in what people know about things and what people perceive about things. It's just spackle to fill up those holes in our consciousness that we sometimes all too readily accept from another POV, instead of actually knowing for ourselves or engaging in critical thought. Now pass me the remote.... Brokaw's about to make me afraid of something else...
Printed materials offer a conveinance and storage factor that computers will not substitute unless they become omnipotent and completely secured. Why fill up disc space with a 200k bitmap screenshot when I can print it out on one piece of paper and work from that? Why keep personal correspondance on a drive where admin can gain access to it? And what about printed documentation to show your boss that you have addressed each point outlined in his/her work-flow plan when it comes time for performance reviews (which are printed out also)?
One does not need replace the other. This is not a competition.
Aren't they already putting microchips into pets for transmitting identification, etc...? I've always wondered how long it would take before they start doing the same thing to babies, so like if a little kid gets lost in the grocery store an employee can run them over the scanner and know exactly who to contact. If we're talking of implanting technology into the human body, we might as well make it functional too. No more clap on..clap off. Too many unanswered questions though (like backdoor access, getting zapped with noise that would render the circuitry useless, etc...). We've got enough work ahead of us with cloning...
where did I state that the bulk of black role models don't come from the black community? What do you have against blacks that would cause you to add your own goofy words to my statements?
The best counter example is Indian/Pakistani/Southwest Asian nationals.
And their history in America dating back to the get-go is...? This is an irrelevant counter arguement, as you try to compare apples to oranges. Here's a counter-counter arguement that is a bit more relevant--look at all the great progress the original Americans -Native Americans- have made. You are thinking globally when the problem is local and specifically tied to US history. Let's keep to the topic... It's obvious that you do not want to understand the repurcussions of institutionalized slavery & racism and how unequal things still are, so I'll just stick to pointing out your errs.
They succeeded because of individual initiative...which is what it takes in this world
Again, we're not talking about the world here. we are talking about the USA. And where does individual initiative come from? Do you think it is an innate characteristic? Programmed into our genetic makeup? Or did the old man with the white beard decide to give it to some colors of people and not others?
The world doesn't knock you down because you are black, it does it because it can...
brilliant! You need to get off the computer and get into philosophy.
Have you ever sat down with any of those managers and found out if they subscribe to the same ideas? Give them that same line you I copied verbatim from your post. Hell, run it by anyone that doesn't fit into your idea of "white". That would be valuable to you. Might open your eyes and mind a little more.
Ask yourself why you believe what you are spouting off (if you even do) and can find more compelling evidence to support it. That's your homework for tonight. Now go on....
I use the term role model in the sense that there are other established African-Americans in those professions, setting the precedent that people of all colors can and do work within. I wasn't refering to individuals that rise to great standing within the community or make great contributions to humankind. A role model in this sense of word needn't even be creative or admirable. The fact that they are working within the IT industry would serve as a role model that might inspire more individuals with an interest in computers or whatever to pursue those interests and not be turned away for reasons that you cannot be expected to relate to. Comprende?
I'm not really sure how all of this relates to my original posting anyway, and it doesn't do any good pointing fingers. Would you not agree that African-Americans are pretty under represented in the IT workplace? And you mentioned role models from the entertainment and sports worlds as a counterpoint to my postulating that these kids lack role models in IT. Music and Sports (but not all sports) are two arenas that African-Americans are gaining acceptance in. Sure kids are going to look up to those types. Who likes being in situations or environments where you don't feel accepted or wanted? Take a stroll through the posts regarding this article and tell me how many non-european-americans would feel welcome (or could relate to the mindset)in this setting. So, role models or not, we still have a problem. You can say what you want about my post, but my experience and opinions are based on this: 34-caucasian, dated strictly African-American women for the past three years, over half of my friends fall into this group, managed several FootLocker stores for 9 years in inner-city areas (where the only time I saw a white guy was when I passed a chrome fixture), and I work for an international company (3,000+ employees just at headquarters alone-- I've yet to see more than 10 black employees not pushing a broom) developing an international software application.
That's where I'm coming from, so I see holes in your reasoning... plus the fact that it's off-topic. I never said anything about you buying anybody anything.
peace out
What do you do that you consider important and not necessarily self-motivated? I suppose your beliefs compelled you enuff to reply, you might try to focus that drive on something a bit more productive and less cynical...
is it really only a "self-imposed" stereotype when you have just posted
1.) "black society seems to hate anyone that succeeds in the white world",
2.) black americans are "steeped in ignorance and unwilling to make sacrifices to change that",
and 3.) your perpetuation of the "white community" idea and its superiority over a black community for not using certain colloquialisms (sic).
think about that when you're feeling more open-minded...
I sure hope more people start becoming aware of the fact that African-Americans are not participating enough in the IT movement. I see kids from all over the world getting involved with computers, but I don't see enough from my own neighborhood. I read an article in Harpers that blamed it on a distrust of technology (for the most part)...but that's a load of BS... It's sentiments like that that keep perpetuating nonsense and provide excuses. The truth is that a lot of kids feel as if they're left outside at a certain point because they don't have the necessary role models to follow. Sure, most kids love to mess around on the computer and get online, but I would say that too many African-American kids don't see IT as a "career for them" because of the "standards" within most IT-oriented companies. Plenty of Black secretaries and maintainence workers...but who's sitting behind the monitors? Just my observations from St. Louis...
...why is it the most expensive DVD in the bins? They're asking 34.99US$ when the avg is 24. But, I'll agree, it's definately worth the brainwaves as opposed to the Blair Hype Project.
duh... I didn't just fall off the turnip truck ya know. Thanks for trying though, professor obvious. When you are in english, the screen for filling in the domain owner contact info returns errors on each required screen so that you can not get a successful submission.
so how are you supposed to get past the goofy domain owner info errors? Hmmm... what's that saying " if something sounds too good to be true, it probably is "
_________________
I would suggest that everyone who believes that the Kansas Board of Education made the right decision pack up and move there. Hell, they might even pay your way... Just imagine it. Sunflowers. Bob Dole. Miles of flat earth created by an old (white) man with a long beard. And none of that silly "education" mixed in with your schooling. Who needs to have an open mind when you've got all that. Might even give you time to help Pat Robertson kill some people he doesn't like. I can see the new license plates already: KANSAS...where ignorance is bliss ________________________________
just one more example of how much Madison Avenue runs this illusion we think of as LIFE. It's about time more people started taking these marketers to task when they really cross the line of "truth in advertising"(an oxymoron). It's all about creating the illusion of choice anyway... and television is such a passive medium that, as one post already mentioned, the company assumed everybody would be too stupid to follow up on the offer. Anybody that watches TV should be compensated.
------------
despite the impression that this story is a 'non-issue' (after all, any job that places greater demands on your waking hours will curb your opportunities for R&R and that is each individuals decision whether they seek balnce or not), I was temporarily pondering over the percentage of guys or gals that get immersed in computers simply cause they ain't "getting any" in the first place. Snowball effect once you start introverting your lifestyle. You do what you know. blah blah blah. get off the box and go out and get some. My awakening was a girlfriend that turned me on... (and introduced me to computers too!)
...and it's working! The fact that Universal is going the litigation route (the least sensible from a technological and economical standpoint) would help a cynic draw the conclusion that the numerous hits and press coverage they've generated in the past couple of days is all part of a marketing campaign to get Universal noticed and establish more of an online prescence. Look at the # of responses in this thread. Savvy marketing. Gotta think outside the box when it comes to getting attention. Too bad they don't follow the same adventerous approach when selecting projects for the big and little screen!