Slashdot Mirror
Interview with Kevin Warwick
nicole pointed out a recent interview with Kevin Warwick, the professor of cybernetics that had a microchip implanted into his arm about a year ago. Cogent comments about cybernetics as well as the whole experience - including his plans for a bigger experiment within the next couple years.
Unless an implanted microchip gives me superfast reflexes or allows me to play Q3 without a computer, you're not getting a microchip implanted in me without a fight.
"Tell me doctor, with all of your defenses, are there any provisions for an attack by killer bees?"
I want nanoprobes in my bloodstream, augmented vision, tubes sticking out of the back of my head and a massive great gun for a right arm.
-Stephen of Borg
Why would someone not want an implant? Other than the possibility of my eyes being hacked or something like that, I see no real problems.
/. in my head anytime I need it.
I want my cellphone hardwired to my brain.
I want to have Unreal sent directly to my optic nerves.
I want maps, phone directories, news, even
I want a health monitoring system that can e-mail my doctor when I am sick.
I want(need) a blood alcohol checker.
I know some of you are thinking "Dear God, who am I going to let program something that goes INSIDE ME?"
I ask you this: You run buggy software. You have workarounds for your hardware. You complain night and day about the companies that don't do what you want. Would you have it any other way?
No, of course not. You love the technology or would wouldn't be a geek.
Implants are the future.
I wish I had been born later, so that I would be able to see more...
Computers can only simulate determinism. ~Hermetic.
If I was going to get a chip in me somewhere, it had better be able to tell whether I was still living and breathing around it, before letting someone get cash out my bank account or have access to my house, etc.
I'd rather have my wallet nicked than my arm ripped off...
-- "Sponges grow in the ocean. I wonder how much deeper the ocean would be if that didn't happen."
In the article it's mentioned that having gun owners with implanted microchips would make it easier to scan for them in places where guns are not desirable. Personally I like it much better the other way around - where guns are only effective if you have an implanted microchip that is programmed to allow you to use a gun. Can someone say Judge Dredd?
Tee hee.
I want funny blue numbers across the top of my vision and a green target sight. And, I want to talk in a menacing sounding way. And, when I download updated killing algorithms from Master Global Corp's CyberNet, I want to stand really still with my head at a slight angle.
Plus, I want flesh that withstands extremes of hot and cold, and a copy of the British Library on minidisc that I can slide into a slot on the back of my neck.
Finally, I want a subtle logic bug that will be discovered by a 12 year old kid who will thus disable me save his cute pet dog, his mom and the whole world (in that order).
Apparently, all this will be possible in 50 years, and it'll replace plasic surgery and novely hats as the pastime of the rich and stupid.
BUT, only if you study cybernetics at reading. Hey Tom Hume, ever meet this guy?
-----
Instead of thinking this man is crazy for doing that, and thinking it is a sick thing, maybe we should think of all the good things it could bring to people. Maybe this oneday could bring life to paralized limb's and so on.
I dig the ideas this guy has. Of course, right now all he's done is to stick an unpowered transmitter in his arm, so that he can identify himself easily to his computer, but that's still cool. Here's some of the intresting bits...
:-)
:-)
:-)
Warwick is effusive about the possibilities and has even suggested that gun owners could get implanted to keep them from entering schools or other areas where heavily armed people may be unwelcome.
That bit looks rather stupid and is probably taken out of context...
We were never experimenting about the long term medical durability of the implant.
All of our experimentation, which was very successful, was carried out within the 9 days.
The implant was not actually designed to fit into the human body. It was in a glass capsule which could have broken or even exploded. It was, therefore, a trifle dangerous!
And that's why it's no big deal.. What the article says is something about "rejection" by the body... But how the hell is that going to happen in nine days? He even admits that it wasn't long term.. Still cool.
We want to investigate the interaction between signals to and from the human brain and computer. The next experiment will effectively provide an electronic short-circuit between the two. I really cannot see the need for keyboards or a computer mouse when such an implant is in position.
Seriously? In two YEARS? Hmmm.. I'd want more details before I'd believe THAT... Of course, if he's just hooking it in so he can read some brain signals, that's fine. Probably would be unable to decode them or anything, but then again, who needs to? Just learn to control the signal using your brain. Feedback is a wonderful thing.
I do not believe a student of Computer Science typically (there are obviously exceptions) gets a good idea of the true power of computers and how they can interact with the world about them.
As a computer science graduate, I find myself offended, but I see his point. Most CS people don't have a clue, being fit, IMHO, only for data entry.
But the uber-geeks I think are the true pioneers. The guys that hang in the Sun labs all day, who rewire the phone systems to auto-dial pizza joints.. These are the people that really understand the computers interaction with the world around them. Of course, we've always got good ol' Al Gore, the man who "invented the internet."
Do you have any advice for someone like myself who is interested in Biotechnology and Cybernetics?
...
(iii) Buy my book "In the Mind of the Machine".
This guy's practical. I like it.
---
- Give a man a fire and he's warm for a day, but set him on fire and he's warm for the rest of his life.
I don't see what's groundbreaking about this. Our cat has a microchip implant, it was done about 2 years ago. If she gets lost, any veterinarian in the area can check her with a scanner and have her safely returned.
I don't enviseage having lights turn on for her when she enters a room, but it would not be difficult to do.
He didn't seem to like it all that much.
"Those who would give up essential liberty for temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety" - Benjamin Franklin,
What's the big fuzz about, this chip isn't
amazing. It might as well have been a neckless,
but that wouldn't make headlines.
De facto is that this lame chip is just like
an digital barcode, it tells the PC when he's
around. The chip can't tell professor-schmofessor anything at all.
Why is it that everytime someone disagrees with another's religion, they call it a cult? And this is the first time that I've heard Christianity referred to as a 'crazed religious cult'. And they didn't get the quote right; the Bible says that the mark will have to be on *all* people, "both free and slave, rich and poor". Kinda lika a SSN in the US! ;-)
Anyway, I love technology as much as the next geek, and while this does sound cool, my problem with it is the fact that this technology can be easily used by nice and not-so-nice governments the same, and I don't trust that one bit. I am not willing to give up my freedom for convenience. And it sounds to me like this device would be much more convenient to a controlling governmental agency (ie. the DMV) than to me. But I'm sure that there are alot of people that *never* do *anything* wrong, or that they'd rather not share with the population at large, that will disagree with me.
"Those who would give up essential liberty for temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety" - Benjamin Franklin,
(Optimism, but that is a necessity!)
(High morale, open sourcing)
Jacking in is what we will be looking into at Reading in the next experiment. - This implies some kind of interaction between neural activity and digital machinery, now doesn't it? That certainly is the bottleneck in subtle mind control of our environments.
Now where can I get my construction kit, please?
It'll be interesting to live in the cyberage, seeing so surprisingly many of the visions of cyberpunk emerge. The future seems grand, even if only for dirt-rich westerners at first (global equalization, anyone?).
I think, therefore thoughts exist. Ego is just an impression.
1. Where do I sign up to be a test subject for this stuff? Being able to interact with a computer without needing a mouse/keyboard/monitor would be a Good Thing. The real plus would be _finally_ having my fridge be able to tell me I was out of milk when I was actually at the store. Of course, assuming my fridge gets an IP addy.
2. The "Mark of the Beast 666" does not become relevant in Christianity until after the Rapture. After all of the people who are Christians are taken away by Jesus, then the earth is plunged into times of darkness, and then the Anti-Christ and 666 become an issue. The Bible tells us that we should not actively hunt out the Anti-Christ, but beware the signs. So, until you see all of the Christians you know disappear, no more 666 talk.
then it comes to be that the soothing light at the end of your tunnel is just a freight train coming your way
I'm not in a screaming hurry to get pieces of plastic and metal embedded in my body. Couldn't we work on something a bit less intrusive like induction maybe?
As to interfacing directly to the brain, perhaps, but very possibly won't be much use to any of us. Restoring visual input to the brain in later life does little good, the brain never learns to sort it out and process it efficiently. Works fine if you restore it at an early age when the brain is still growing. Language acquisition is also something that only works well at a very young age. Learning to process high bandwidth input might also need to be done when very young. I'm sure people will be eager to volunteer their very young children for this. Not.
I don't think our technology is up to designing implants that last a lifetime yet either. Upgrades and repairs are unusually painful here. Bit disorienting when reality bluescreens on you while driving...
Maybe I'm just too old or something.
> If you get mad at someone, you can send them an infinite loop and trick them into running it.
A trojan-horse like this sounds pretty cool but... if one could just write the eqvivalent of BO2k then...
LINUX stands for: Linux Inux Nux Ux X
FRA: STFU GTFO
Well I wouldn't exactly like a vital part of my life to BSOD on me, I'd only be able to see blue. No thanks. The os (if an os at all) would have to be stable and definitely efficient :) If it means windows CE, no thanks.
So, I guess the technology is almost there in a rudimentary sense; I also recall that researchers managed to get human brain cells to bond & grow on silicon wafers not too long ago, as well. Imagine it if you could augment your memory with as much DRAM as you could afford! And you'd never have to drink to forget, just flush the RAM! Uh oh - just realised the flaw in the plan - you could have perfect clarity of the night before when you danced drunk and naked across the bar...:) And worse still, other people could play their memories of it back to you!
Whatever your beliefs about 666 and all that, I think there are a number of big ethical hurdles way before the technology will be usable and theologists start getting worked up. With all the research that still needs to be done, there's never been a worse time to be a Rhesus monkey...
Strong data typing is for those with weak minds.
Well, since I am planning to enter this field, I hav some thoughts on the matter. For starters, things we have:
A) Video: We have direct cortex implants that supply low res/approx 640x480, and we have the beginings of artificial retinas, which could have video piped into them.
B) Communication: The power requirements/broadcast range of the new ultra-wide spectrum burst tech is perfect for this kind of stuff. Small and Strong.
C) Output: We have the beginnings of direct brain implanted output, though the main researcher in that field understands lots of nuroscience and little CS, so he isn't makeing real good use of the channels he is setting up. We also have implantable "nerve sensors" for lack of a better word, that have been developed to drive prostetics, that don't go anywhere near the brain, and could be put in a healthy system, just to grab its output.
D) Audio: Actually, weve had audio for decades, as it's REALLY easy, just tag a voltage source onto the audio nerve.
We have all the pieces, it seems, but why don't we have cybernetics yet? Well, take a look at What We Don't Have:
A) Power: We need a good implantable power source, be it a long term battery, a really good thermocouple, or an expansion-generating polymer run alongside a muscle to grab a little juice when you extend.
B) Community: THe developers working on the parts in different fields are not yet treating them as "parts" and aren't really talking yet. We need more cross-field communication.
C) Miniturization: While we have all this neat tech, it is simply to big right now to think about an integrated system.
How We Will Get It:
A) The Disabled: As much as I may claim I need a Jack, my doctor doesn't believe me. But Parapalegics have a MUCH better case, and between them and the blind, we have a large population that has a genuine need for this kind of equipment.
B) Insurance Companys: That large population cost certain people a great deal of money, and anything which reduces that cost, is considered a GOOD thing, so insurance companys have and will continue finacning research into this field.
C) The Law: I don't care who you are, you can't say NO to a blind crippled baby and stay in office, so no one will outlaw this kind of tech, and it will mature.
D) Crazy Hackers: And then I will go and get some, and just like the comercialization of breast implants, I will keep going to different doctors until I find one who will say "YES".
-Crutcher
-- Crutcher --
#include <disclaimer.h>
This doesn't sound revolutionary or even like cybernetics to me. People have had implants in their bodies for years (ie, metallic brackets for holding broken bones together, fake breasts, etc).
Plus, the chip seems to just passively sit there (DOes anyone know if it has a power source, and broadcasts RF? Or does his house detect him like the checkouts at a library, with a passive grid dip sensor)?
Anyway, I think pacemakers are a much better suited example of cybernetics, and they have been around at least 10 years or more. Plus they directly interface electronic circuits to the nervious system. I don't see why Kevin's "chip" is such a big deal.
I feel a rambling session coming on...
/. readers spend more time socialising offline than online? Show someone the wonders and splendour of jacked-in cyberspace and tell them they can have it 24/7 if they sign over 40% of their brain to MS for use as distributed processing and they would jump at the chance. Everything I want for free? Fantastic, I don't think. (in fact most people won't think)
If you are "jacked in" and have the sum of human knowledge accessible to you as memory (not manual retrievel, but simply *already* knowing it) and experience the wildest fantasies imaginable, then what precisely will we do?
Will we live for pleasure, forever flipping between more and more exotic porn sessions and ever more fantastic scifi fantasy role-plays? Who wouldn't want to lose themselves in a truly believable Elite scenario?
Or will we live for pure research? Medical, IT, Space or Physics? Like Hell we will
Could you imagine the vast numbers of couch potatoes doing anything other than spending 24 hours inline? (yes, inline, copyright me, friday afternoon just back from the pub) I can't. Will it get to the point where everyone with a modicum of intelligence is obliated under law to maintain the system for the vast, stupid majority? Simply having the sum of human knowledge available isn't enough; you need to be motivated to actually use it.
What sort of people will grow up in this kind of society? Spoilt rotten retards probably.
Who'll pay for all this? You can bet that the likes of the big entertainment companies must be salivating at the prospect of a subscription from everyone on the planet.
What happens to capitalism when noone wants to buy material goods because they can have anything online?
What's the point of living like someone in those pods depicted in the Matrix?
Will anyone spend any time in real life? How many
It'll be a morlock/eloi hell. Don't try to tell me otherwise.
----- Documentation is worth it just to be able to answer all your mail with 'RTFM' - Alan Cox.
Warwick is effusive about the possibilities and has even suggested that gun owners could
get implanted to keep them from entering schools or other areas where heavily armed people may be unwelcome.
The idea that Warwick has to implant all gun owners so they cannot enter a school is ludicrous.
I HATE seeing this kind of stuff get thrown around. Noone has the right to tell me that I cannot go somewhere simply because I am a gun owner. This guy can kiss my *$&.
I dunno. I think it's really cool research, and I like the idea of becoming one with technology just as much as I like the idea of becoming one with nature (which is somewhat paradoxical, but not really).
There is a company that will soon be going into a beta-testing phase for a chip that is implanted in your hand. The basic idea is that it acts like an ATM card, but it's right there in your hand. I considered signing up, but then a question struck me: why do I want to be so readily indentified?
I mean, sure, the ATM thing probably only works when you *want* to be identified (i.e., you put your hand near a reader/scanner/whatever). But the first paragraph of the story talks about how he was recognized *as he walked into a room*.
If I had an implant of such a nature, I would most definitely want some way to stop the device from transmitting, at least temporarily.
After all, when I'm rich and famous, I *still* might want to go incognito-- or post anonymously, at least...
After having read his books, two about robots killing us all and taking over the world, and having recently graduated from the University of Reading, I feel it is my duty to warn
When we all graduated he wished us all good luck! Then is was pointed out that the robots would rise up and crush us early on in the next centurary so we didn't have anthing to live for!
Indeed based on his books we will all be in termination camps before the chips come on line.
Still he is very entertaining to watch teach. And has the best range of shirts! And is very funny.
>I want my cellphone hardwired to my brain. /. in my head anytime I need it.
>I want to have Unreal sent directly to my optic nerves.
>I want maps, phone directories, news, even
>I want a health monitoring system that can e-mail my doctor when I am sick.
I want(need) a blood alcohol checker.
I think I will only be able to master the most crude form of these implants, artificial interfaces with simple controls (HUD displays and such). The only way to learn how to use implants like you described is probably have them implanted right after birth. Think of these cyber implants as extra organs with more possibilities than any of the organs you have now.
It would take the learningcurve of a child to efficiently use these implants, after all: there's only so much new tricks an old dog can learn.
As I see it the only way around this for me is create a full "Matrix-like" VR enviroment and me vegetating in a clinicd.
(With the possible exeption of alcohol monitor alike devices which do not require interaction. But they definitely lack the cool factor of the other possibilities.)
--
two-thousand-zero-zero
party over, it's out of time
Two more great interviews with Kevin Warwick: on frontwheeldrive: http://frontwheeldrive.com/warwick.html and on disinformation: http://www.disinfo.com/disinfo?p=folder&title=Kevi n+Warwick+%96+Cyborg+Professor
If people start using implants (highly unlikely, IMO), imagine the possibilities of problems that would be likely to occur. We'd go from having network security to "implant security" so information going to and from the implant would be secure. We'd also have a whole new world of privacy issues. When can data be extracted or stored on the implant (assuming it can do that)?
Hmmm....
-- Moondog
Well, that's one theory.
More precisely, this is the Pre-Tribulation Rapture model, which is a particular millenialist interpretation of Revelation. While this model has been heavily popularized in the last few decades (esp. by Hal Lindsey, A Thief in the Night , and more recently LaHaye and Jenkin's "Left Behind" series ), it's not even the only millenialist interpretation, much less the only Christian understanding, of Revelation.
For those who aren't theology nerds like me, eschatological (== "concerning the end of things") theories can be divided into at least two groups, "millenial" and "amillenial", depending on how they view the thousand-year reign of Christ described in Revelation 20. Millenialists insist that the 1000 years is to be understood literally, and generally insist on (a) as literal as possible an understanding of Revelation and other end-time prophecies of Scripture, and (b) that Revelation and related passages are only applicable to this end period of history. Within the millenialist camp, you can find Pre-Trib, Post-Trip, and even Mid-Trib Rapture theories.
Amillenialists are then distinguished by not being millenialists. I don't know the amillenial theories as well, but in general it is understood that much of Revelation is (a) symbolic (b) applicable to more than one generation in history (although most applicable to the final generation).
Historically, the millenialist viewpoint is relatively recent, originating in various fundamentalist/evangelical Protestant groups (and in the English world, at that), within the last 150 years. Most of Christianity, for most of Christian history, has been amillenialist.
And yes, I tend to be an amillenialist these days myself. For an excellent novel portraying a non-Rapture-first end times, see Father Elijah: An Apocalyspe. Like all good apocalypses, it is at least as much about today as about the future.
What does this have to do with cybernetics?
Good question. The answer is that some Christians have speculated that the "mark" mentioned in Revelation 13:11-18 could, given current technology and society, be literally implemented as, for example, a tattooed barcode or implanted chip. Set up the economy so that it's illegal, or at least practically possible, "so that no one can buy or sell unless he has the mark" (Rev. 13:17). As opposed to earlier days, which relied on cruder methods of citizen control and loyalty assurance such as requiring a pinch of incense be burned to the Emperor under pain of death (what Christians were experiencing when Revelation was written).
Personally, while Warwick seems like Yet Another Scientist In Disinterested Pursuit of KnowledgeTM, I don't think that where he's going with cybernetics is necessarily a good direction. Implanted RF locators? I can flip the lights on myself, thank you very much. This would give both State and Corporation intelligence powers that Nero could only dream of. And brain/computer direct links, thought-to-thought communication? Great, so now detecting thoughtcrime would become technologically feasible. Big Brother will be so happy with this developement.
But this should be opposed because it's bad and wrong, not because it might fulfill the prophecy about the "mark." It will be tough to tell when exactly the Last Days will be -- Jesus himself didn't know, and told his disciples not to believe everyone who yelled "it's here! it's now!". But we can figure out if something is a good or a bad thing in the meantime.
Aren't they already putting microchips into pets for transmitting identification, etc...? I've always wondered how long it would take before they start doing the same thing to babies, so like if a little kid gets lost in the grocery store an employee can run them over the scanner and know exactly who to contact. If we're talking of implanting technology into the human body, we might as well make it functional too. No more clap on..clap off. Too many unanswered questions though (like backdoor access, getting zapped with noise that would render the circuitry useless, etc...). We've got enough work ahead of us with cloning...
Prof Warwick was my university lecturer.
Likeable enough guy (except for his insistance of reciting Skoda "jokes" during lectures) but like many academics, doesn't quite live in the land of reality.
Lets put things in perspective. The capsule which was injected in to his arm is no more different than the ID capsules you can have injected in to your cat or dog. The range is very poor - a couple of centimeters at best.
Personally - I think it is a lot of noise generated about nothing really new. If that capsule could report infomation such as blood tempreture and heart-beat rate... *Then* it is something to report about.
There, I've said it. My 2 pence worth...
Fr33KeV1n!!!1!!
But a nice one - my favourite lecturer from that whole course (I still changed courses to plain CS though - sorry Kevin).
;)
He once told me that if I put 'K for restaurant' on the corner of my exam paper, I'd get full marks. (I didn't - to either).
Few things make uni more interesting than nutcase lecturers. More power to his elbow (or wherever it was he plugged that thing in
Mike Houghton
After reading http://www.tabloid.net/1998/10/12/kidnapmicrochip_ 981012.html 1 225&rtmo=lwP7kQzt&atmo=99999999&pg=/et/98/ 10/6/wchip06.html
and
http://www.telegraph.co.uk:80/et?ac=00120274134
and falling for them hook, line and sinker, I emailed Dr. Warwick for information. He promptly responded and said he'd heard a lot about it but had been unable to confirm the rumours.
Undoubtedly a hoax, but still it has interesting possibilities.
Morel
I still don't see what the big deal is here. It's been possible to implant pets and livestock with that technology for years now. Everything else he talks about in the interview makes the vague hand-waving of a Nicholas Negroponte seem like certainties by comparison. And what's with the advice to ignore people who are educated in specific fields? If a physicist tells me it's impossible to accelerate to the speed of light, why should I ignore him just because he doesn't know how we do things in Computer Science these days? What is this guy's educational background, anyway? What has he done besides had himself implanted with a livestock monitor? Why are we listening to him?
I looked at Reading's "cybernetics" department a few years ago as a potential undergrad. It was poor to say the least.
It has a UK national grading of "3a A 12.0". Nothing to be proud of - which explains the admitted lack of interest from other undergrads!
The only thing Warwick's department has is a talent for self-advertisement. Hence the pretentious name.
(PS I graduated from Reading two years ago in Human Cybernetics... hence I know a thing or two!)
In that case, we probably know each other. Drop me a line if you want.
S.VBP (Visual Basic for People)
Think of it... You could knock up a macros to automate those tedious tasks. Guys, no more need to lift that toilet seat, just implement...
function HaveAnAccurateSlash() as liquid
...and the girls would never know. Even works when you are lagered out of your head.
The possibilities are endless.
My major worry is macro viruses and unauthorised rewrites. Consider, you're lagered up, your tongue is a bit loose, ..and one of your friends manages to wangle your access code out of you.
We now get...
function HaveAnAccurateSlash() as liquid
Call RevealTackle
do While StillNeedSlash
Direction = Rnd
DoEvents
loop
call HideTackle
call LeaveToilet
ShortTermMemory.Wipe
end sub
Don't worry in the end evolution will achieve a balance. The giant cockroaches will run out of netheads to chew on, and starve to death.
This will not keep people from shooting up schools. All the "law abiding" gun-owners would have the chips in their arms, but they aren't the ones who are going to shoot up a school. The potential murderers would find a way to remove the chips or acquire illegal guns (and therefore not get a chip) and shoot up the school anyway.
So implanting a chip is not the solution to this problem. But worse than that, it allows your privacy to be invaded even easier than it already is! Can you imagine - we already have the technology to track cell phones so that they continue to work when you move. The government/stalkers/etc. could track you easily if you had one of these chips implanted.
Very scary stuff.
99 little bugs in the code, 99 bugs in the code,
fix one bug, compile it again...
I'm a leaf on the wind. Watch how I soar.
From Warwick's description, it seems that this chip simply transmits a signal to identify him. Why all the fuss? Why didn't he just stick the resonant coil in his wallet, or a ring or bracelet? So he could be a kewl bionic man? Does it give him special powers to forecast the future?
The article was interesting, although I was hoping the implant would be something more than an X-10 controller (basically) and an email counter. It's a start, I suppose, but I was much more interested in his future experiments. I don't know if I believe that we're very close to communicating by thought, though; I don't think we know nearly enough about the brain for that. I certainly won't be signing up for the test group anytime real soon...
> What's the point of living like someone in those pods depicted in the Matrix?
;-)
Hey, if you've got control over the programs, I'd say there's a lot of point. Want to make a few changes? Just upload girlfriend 2.0!
Seriously, why would you *not* want to live like that? Wouldn't it be cool to be able to fly, or go hang out in the Jurassic, or do whatever else you please?
Hook me up!
I hope that they continue working on neural-interfacing implants at full speed.. it is insane that we have going on nearly a million people in the United States with some form of RSI symptoms as a result of too much computer use.
I want a neural tap that is connected somewhere in my arm's neural path that would let me flip a switch and disengage my sensor/motor nerves going to my hand and let me type directly into cyberspace without moving my fingers. The nerve intercept could provide the normal signals to the fingers and hand muscles to keep everything from atrophying while the direct motor control was disengaged.
Unfortunately, I think I was born about 20 years too early for this sort of technology to be of any use in my career, but I hope it happens.
- jon
Ganymede, a GPL'ed metadirectory for UNIX
Nature. Science. Who has the ultimate control in the end?
Please help! I'm stuck inside my virtual reality headset!
Warwick's comment about gun owners is troubling. I wonder if he is dispensing his facist political views alongside his cybernetic facts while teaching at our universities. If he had an ounce of real insight into how cybernetics will affect the future then he would realize that gun owners will one day be able to have the guns themselves implanted. (thank you Neil S.) There are so many sissy pinko facist communist skumbags spouting off in the press lately it makes one just want to up and move to Montana ;*) -m
I find the idea of getting a microchip implanted for the purposes to which it was used a case of blaming the victim.
What we need to do is give our equipment better sensory hardware and the reflexes to use it. I'd like to walk up to a machine and have it recognize ME not something I had implanted for its convenience.
There are only a very few ways our brain to detect anything:
* Sight, through organs that sense energy
directly, our eyes.
**Hearing and touch, through cells that convert
pressure into a signal for our brains,
(sound is just pressure varied over time.)
**Taste and smell, through cells that detect the
presence and structure of molecules impinging
on receptors. (taste is extremely primitive and
limited. You don't so much taste as smell your
food by detecting various aromatic compounds.)
We already know how to build and interface with direct energy receptors, pressure sensors and even chemical sensors. You can buy these, off the shelf, to construct devices of incredible sensitivity.
Why don't we work on increasing the machine's ability to sense us rather then relying on some artifice to make up for the lack of engineering.
-Charles-A.
MSBPodcast.com The opinions expressed here are my own. If you don't like 'em... Think up your own stuff.
Maybe it was all of the plugs for his book....
Oh well, whatever his intentions were it's obviously worked. He's rather depressing though I mean if he's right about machines taking over than why work to improve technology? Why is he working to improve technology, in particular cyber-tech?
(Why does he have to burst my bubble?)
Personally I hope to see things take a different turn than his morbid predictions. Of course, I happen to watch Star Trek, Star Wars, and various Anime. I guess I hope to see better intergration of man with machine rather than machine dominating man.
Maybe I'm the sicko?!?
I was an undergraduate at Reading University ('96-'99), in the department and Kevin Warwick was head of my department & my lecturer.
There are some details of the experiment that weren't released, the most important of which is that it didn't work, he actually had a box strapped to his leg, under his trousers!! Apparently the implanted one broke whilst it was being put inside him.
Joel@Techie.Com
In a recent thread on /. this topic was discussed in depth. One article compared the murdur rates in the US and UK with extensive documentation. The thread was in the left/right/center politics poll so I can't give you the link. However I did note down the relevant stats. The last year with complete data was 1997. In 1997 there were 142 murdurs in the UK and 18,209 in the US of which 68% were commited with guns. Adjusting for population (the US has 5 times the population of the UK) there were 2.4 murdered per million people in the UK and 67.9 per million in the US.
I would argue that the 28X higher murder rate in the US is, at least in part, due to easy access to guns (especially handguns)
It sems to me that the UK doesn't have the "same problems" as the US.
Now having said that I don't beleive UK style gun control could work in the US. The attitude of people at large is very different. The vast majority of people in the UK see no legitimate need for private handgun control. The same cannot be said for the US. Many people in the US beleive that hand gun ownership is a good thing.
The majority of gun owners in the US are also responsible people who do not commit crimes. It would be very hard to convince such people that banning handguns is a good idea. Indeed in the US it probably isn't because not only are there a huge number of guns out there, in many places they aren't registered or liscenced in anyway so there would be no way implement such a ban.
The most used software for head based PCs...
would be Solitare.
when you see someone break out there laptop or palm or whatever 80% of the time they with play a game or two of Klondike before doing any "Real" work.
Let's just kill everybody, everywhere, and then kill ourselves. That way, nothing bad can ever happen again from then on.
**>>BELCH
I dunno about what this Warwick fellow did - it seems like to me that implanting something as simple as a small RF loop to identify to your computer (and other devices) is kind of silly. You might as well use an adhesive to attach it to your skin someplace & not worry about rejection problems (except maybe for the adhesive :)
:), they might be able to hook those points up to a small radio transmitter/receiver (perhaps using some of those brain electrodes which have neurotrophic chemicals causing nerve cells to grow new connections INTO the electrodes).
I guess working out the issues involved about actually implanting a foreign device in the body is important. It would've been neat if there had been some more functionality involved though.
Here's an idea that I thought might be kind of interesting:
If researchers can pinpoint some nexus points in the brain where a lot of thought processes go through (not motor actions, although that might be interesting too
Get two people with those things installed, configure the transmitter/receivers to BRIDGE the signals between the two brains (but not in a really strong way), then would the two people become aware of each other's thoughts/emotions/memories)?
Obviously, someone who wants to think they're Important.
*I* don't want to be phone in bed with a lady, or on the john, or when I want a night's sleep, or in the middle of a party, or when I just don't want to be bloody *paged* for the xth time that evening....
I think it's management who promulgates the idea that all us techies have no lives, as an excuse, so that they don't have to feel bad when they can go home, and tell the second, or third, or whatever shift to page us whenever they want, as many times as they want.....
*I* do have a life (well, what's left of it since my wife died), and I do *not* live to make management's bonus'
mark
"While indexing the Borg's main memory module, I came across the above comment. It seems they were once very organic"
+&x
...not want an implant?
From the article:
"How long have you been interested in the field of Cybernetics?
Since I was a small boy. I was always excited by robots and liked putting things together and experimenting. I learnt a lot from having a
motorcycle in my teens - which I eventually blew up.
+&x
It's an interesting article and a bit surprising, but the part about him being inspired by Crichton is a bit strange for me. The Terminal Man is pretty pessimistic, and I don't know if I could trust someone inspired by it. Even something by Gibson would be more appropriate.
"I guess we are about 15-20 years (maybe sooner) away from having a few problems with machines making unauthorized (by any human) decisions that could go against humans in general. At the rate things are changing, I would feel that in 30-40 years time things will be out of our hands."
kinda scary if, in fact, "war is quickly becoming a game only machines can play". Then again, if "artificial" intelligence is a belittling name for it, and we find ourselves blocking its progress, then maybe it'll subjugate us and serve its real host with a favor in kind. Here we haggle over our "intellect" as "property", while we actually manage our "property" (as in coastal real estate) with so little intelligence*. Or maybe trading more ideas we'll dump less industrial filth, and we'll get smart enough to leapfrog over the *pending antarctic melt down. Who the hell knows?
It is very difficulty to classify the intelligence of Deep Blue. Its main advantage appeared to be that it could process information at a much faster rate than Kasparov. Also, unlike Kasparov, it did not whine and grumble when it lost.
My beef with the in-awed worship of "machine intelligence" (as in the age of"spiritual machines") is that the two bits gurus rarely refer to "emotional intelligence", (which may represent a healthy portion of the 90% of our "brain" we don't use. Other human cultural traditions, such as the Tibetan Buddhist, have copious libraries full of recorded learning about states of feeling, compassion, awareness and consciousness which the analytic Western tradition seems to ignore if not repress. Will "intelligence" outsmart us in a few short years with simple yes or no answers? Maybe or maybe not:)
On that note, apparently Deep Dark Blue is still kinda dumb when playing more binary and ancient human bored games like Korean shogi or Chinese go. "Deep Blue beat Kasparov by plotting 14 moves ahead, but a good shogi program would require a computer to read at least 20 moves ahead - professional shogi players can think 30 - 40 moves ahead.. Another lure for programmers is the ancient Chinese game of go, which is even harder for computers than shogi.." - latimes 990819A ..
Sure, just a couple more exponential steps up mount moore's law, but until we let eugenetic engineers hardwire quantum wetware into our loved ones, how will digital decisionmakers get *meaningful* information from human feelings, intuitions, subtle verbal and subtler non-verbal communications, etc.?
Hey, it's good to see many ex-inmates of Reading University's Cybernetics course read Slashdot...
There's hope yet for you guys!
Seriously - it's quite enlightening (but not surprising) that the implant didn't work as advertised. But there again, very few projects developed by the undergrads actually worked.
And those which did against all expectation get taken to bits and used for the next years Reverse Engineering course. (;
No sig. Move along - nothing to see here.
Dunno if Tom's ever met the guy, but I've been to some of his lectures...
I'm a Comp. Sci student at Reading and I can tell you this guy's mad. Computers are going to take over the world inevitably if you believe him, despite the fact that we still haven't got usable machine intelligence and walking robots are horrificaly unreliable.
TBH, we just get used to the idea that there's this nutter in the next building who does daft things every now and then that get his department money. Nothing more than publicity, really - I'm told by some of his students that the implant into his arm didn't actually work, for example - too low power. He's got a reputation for rigging demos, too.
What we have here is an attention seeking self-publicist, nothing more. So enamoured with his own subject - which doens't actually teach you for anything especially useful - that he's prepared to say any rubbish to get on the news, and people who've not come across him before publish it as fantastic breakthroughs. Please, can we start ignoring him and hoping he'll go away?
Greg
Greg
(Inside a nuclear plant)
Aaaarrrggh! Run! The canary has mutated!