The straws add up. Eventually it only takes one to break a camel's back.
The French peasants had it rough long before they rebelled, it was a bunch of little things, and a few big ones, that eventually ended up with a lot of people loosing their heads.
Eventually people will say "Enough", and seek change, if they get it without the use of force great, but if not they will still get it, it will just be messier.
Actually according to the Wiki article on it Israel TOOK the land.
They made what they call a "preemptive attack" on Egypt claiming that Egypt and the other Arab nations were planing to attack, which they deny. Since the other nations had mutual defense treaties with Egypt they got involved as well.
Consider that in some ways Israel has become as bad as the Germans in regards to how they treat the Palestinians, no blatant attempt at genocide but striping them of property, rights and freedoms.
And I just know that last comment is likely to get me flamed, oh well, Its just my opinion, take it or leave it.
For those not logged in: "Beware those who would deny you Knowledge, For in their hearts they dream themselves your Master."
Those in power, even in a "Free" country, fear the free flow of information, ideas, comments by the people.
And for those of you that catch it, yes, my sig a a paraphrase of Pravin Lal's bio from SMAC, which I'll also include because its worth reading. "As the Americans learned so painfully in Earth's final century, free flow of information is the only safeguard against tyranny. The once-chained people whose leaders at last loose their grip on information flow will soon burst with freedom and vitality, but the free nation gradually constricting its grip on public discourse has begun its rapid slide into despotism. Beware of he who would deny you access to information, for in his heart he dreams himself your master."
I wasn't claiming anything other than facts can not be changed by reports and court rulings.
Thanks to the more rational responses to my comment I was given information I did not having, links to peer reviewed studies on the matter, unlike the other responses.
OP; "Smallpox is wiped out", as in gone completely.
Me:"It still exists, in labs", amending OP's statment.
Now I think I should have titled my comment "Amendment".
You are correct that there have not being any cases anywhere in the WORLD for over 20 years, but that does not mean that the virus no longer exists and could never resurface. If it was truly a non-threat why do they still inoculate US service personnel against it? Maybe because the Smallpox virus has not been wiped out.
You raise a valid point, though I really wouldn't call it "cheating nature" since both human male and females are fertile into their forties, with males able to father a child well into their nineties, without any intervention by medical technologies.
I've heard about some studies that show that the older a man gets the more genetic abnormalities are present in his sperm. This would also substantiate your point.
Normaly in nature as males age they loose the ability to procreate not because of their age but due to younger males displacing them in the gene pool, this does not happen as much in humans where fitness as a mate is not governed by physical ability alone but also, and in some cases supplanted by intelligence or just the ability to provide for a family. As exemplified by the older males who are wealthy enough to attract and hold a younger mate that would otherwise go be with someone younger and stronger.
But its not consistent across the board, even couples under 30 are having autistic children, so while the age of the parents does appear to be a factor it does not preclude other factors as well from causing the sudden and drastic increase observed over the last 20 years.
Since increased age has been linked to genetic abnormalities there may also be other environmental factors that cause similar, or identical, damage to the reproductive cells, thus the general increase can be seen as representative of both the "normal" genetic abnormalities found in older parents and the genetic damage caused by some environmental factor or factors.
No mater the final cause there is still much research that must be done on the matter and also the issue of how society is going to deal with the huge influx of autistic people into the general population, it is a simple fact that while some autistic people can adapt and learn to function in society at large their are also many who can not, and society must adapt to them, or deal with the issue another way.
As I indicated earlier, its going to be interesting to see how it all plays out.
Boy, I sure stirred up a hornets nest with just the suggestion that there may have been a link between autism and the vaccines. Another poster pointed me at a report that blows that correlation out of the water, its one of the other reply's to my first comment that started this all off if your intersted.
Also thanks for the stand up, though this is a first, I've never been modded "Flamebait" before. I better get some fireproof underwear if this keeps up.
What is even funnier to me is that not one reply had anything to say about my main comment, that smallpox had not been wiped out.
As to why I'm not totally up to speed, I don't watch TV and lately haven't been keeping to to date on whats happening in ASD research, or most other fields really, too much crap going on in my life distracting me lately.
I think your right about how the diagnosis rate is also impacting the total, but considering the numbers, how did it go from 1:10,000 to 1:100 so fast? Then there is also the mis-diagnoses that happens where a child who gets slotted into the niche of autistic because they are just a little "slow" or "think differently", That might also be throwing the numbers off a little but the rest is just staggering, just the high functional children are going to need a new school systems that can work with their needs, never mind the one who completely cut themselves off from the world.
Just from the range of responses my comment generated it is a very touchy issue for everyone. And they all completely ignored the main point of my comment, that smallpox is has not been eradicated. Funny how people lock on to things that trigger emotional responses and ignore everything else. Kind of makes me wonder if the ASD ratio is going to end up 1:2 or 1:1 for some populations when all is said and done.
Thanks for the update, I was just about to use the 1:120 in another reply.
At this rate its going to be 1:1 soon. I wonder if there is some kind of environmental factor like population density that flips some switch to reduce a species population that has become too successful? Kind of like lemmings.
Thank you for proving that you can read something more complex than Dr.Zeus books, I was worried.
I never said that there wasn't another cause to the spike in autism rates. In fact another poster, who seemed to comprehend what I was saying, sent a link to an study showing that even with thimerosal completely removed from the equation the autism rates are still climbing, thus further invalidating the claim by some parties of a connection between thimerosal and autism.
You on the other hand simple claimed that "scientific evidence" would show the rate would not change, you where right by the way, and expected your opinion to trump mine by shear force of will. Looks like I'm not the only one who needs to take a debate class.
And yes, I can draw, but you wouldn't like it, I use shades of Grey and sometimes even colors.
I was basing my comment on an article I read a few years ago stating that thimerosal was still found in some vaccines being administered at the time but that it was in the proccess of being completely phased out. Thank you for the updated info.
Another poster has provided me with a link to a report that even in the areas where thimerosal was not used the autism rate was still climbing, haven't read it yet.
I am amazed at how one comment about the claim of a thimerosal/autism link has stirred up a hornets nest of responses.
You have no idea how refreshing it is to get a clear, concise response to my comment that sounds like you actually understood what I was trying say.
I was unaware of the study you linked to, I'll read it later over a fresh cup of coffee.
So if the report is valid then the possible thimerosal/autism coneection can be laid to rest. Of course now the question is what is causing the increase in autism, if it wasn't the mercury then what else changed?
I am really getting tired of having to explain myself on slashdot. This comment is not directed at the PP specifically but in general to those readers who seem to fail to really parse through what is being said in a comment before replying.
My point, which you seem to have missed, was that the autism rate changed, and it occurred around the same time the number of vaccines containing thimerosal given to children was increased. This fact is not changed by any of the medical reports saying there is no connection or what a court may decide.
With me so far?
It is an accepted fact that the rate of autism has increased. Note that I never said anything about the vaccines actually causing the change, just that the change occurred at around the same time.
Just in cased you missed it, I never claimed that the correlation of the change in autism and the use of thimerosal containing vaccines was proof of causation.
Still with me?
My last comment about how it will be interesting to see if the rate of autism changes now that thimerosal is being phased out totally agrees with your comment about how "scientific evidence says it won't", to wit, if there is NO change in thee rate then the claims of a link between thimerosal and autism will be further invalidated.
Did you follow all that or should I start drawing pictures?
What I'm trying to get across is that there are claims that the sudden and rapid increase in autism in America was caused by the mercury based preservative thimerosal used in many of the vaccines in use at the time. The autism rate began to climb about the same time that the number of vaccines containing thimerosal being given to children also increased. I never said that the vaccines where the cause of the spike but the timing of the two events is close enough that a link is possible, but not that there is a link. That is why its going to be interesting to see if the rate changes, thimerosal has been phased out but the number of vaccines being given is unchanged, one variable has been altered, if the autism rate changes then it validates the possibility that there was a link, not that there is one.
Fact: high levels of mercury will cause serious neurological issues in the human brain at any age. In infants the high levels may cause permanent damage, I don't know, I have not researched it and I'm not a pediatrician.
My comments about smallpox is completely separate from the ones on thimerosal and autism. You seem to have confused the two.
That's why I said it will be interesting to see if the rate changes.
If the rate of autism drops then they need to take another look at the possible autism/vaccine connection.
If the rate does not change then it validates the claims that there never was a connection and the correlation between the increase in autism and the thimerosal in the vaccines of the time was a coincidence.
Are my posts really that hard to understand? This is the third comment on this topic where the commentators replying to my post seem to be missing my point.
Smallpox has not been wiped out, as in "no longer exists". There just are no outbreaks in the wild anymore.
There are currently 2 sources of the smallpox virus that need to be monitored.
First is the biological weapons stock piles, they have developed smallpox variants that will kill 90+% of the infected and for which even the current vaccines are useless.
Second is the fact that smallpox can remain viable for decades, all someone would have to do is dig up a well preserved body of a person who died from smallpox and they could harvest viable virus cultures to use on a population that currently has no defense against it, which is most of the world since smallpox vaccinations are not routine anymore.
A side note: an single vaccination with a vaccine using thimerosal would not raise mercury levels to unsafe amounts in a child, it is believed that the multiple injections with a very short time, sometimes all on the same day, would raise the mercury level in the blood to levels that caused damage.
No matter what the court or the pharmacorp sponsored studies may say autism went from 1:10,000 to 1:120 in the span of a decade at the same time that new vaccination protocols where implemented.
Now that thimerosal is being replaced it will be interesting to see if the autism rate changes.
Slashdot Mirror
FYI, technically they are referred to as "suppressors". A properly built gun/suppressor combo can be almost totally silent, but that is rare.
But even an improvised suppressor could drop the sound of a gun discharging to below the likely activation threshold of these devices.
Another tid-bit, you can legally own a suppressor with the correct permits from the government.
Isn't this how the Cylons killed most of the colonial tech?
Shot in a beam of data via the ECM systems and activated the "kill switch" 6 had planted in the new software.
As long as they could get the exploitable code into the system this might work.
Cue the "Windows for Warplanes" jokes...
And be sure to watch the old episodes. You know, back when SNL was good.
As if we needed any proof that politicians are willing to barter their family to advance their careers.
The straws add up. Eventually it only takes one to break a camel's back.
The French peasants had it rough long before they rebelled, it was a bunch of little things, and a few big ones, that eventually ended up with a lot of people loosing their heads.
Eventually people will say "Enough", and seek change, if they get it without the use of force great, but if not they will still get it, it will just be messier.
Actually according to the Wiki article on it Israel TOOK the land.
They made what they call a "preemptive attack" on Egypt claiming that Egypt and the other Arab nations were planing to attack, which they deny. Since the other nations had mutual defense treaties with Egypt they got involved as well.
Consider that in some ways Israel has become as bad as the Germans in regards to how they treat the Palestinians, no blatant attempt at genocide but striping them of property, rights and freedoms.
And I just know that last comment is likely to get me flamed, oh well, Its just my opinion, take it or leave it.
Sorry I missed it, still waking up.
I'll go get another mug of coffee.
Nicely done by the way.
Here, not hear.
I think my sig says it very well.
For those not logged in:
"Beware those who would deny you Knowledge,
For in their hearts they dream themselves your Master."
Those in power, even in a "Free" country, fear the free flow of information, ideas, comments by the people.
And for those of you that catch it, yes, my sig a a paraphrase of Pravin Lal's bio from SMAC, which I'll also include because its worth reading.
"As the Americans learned so painfully in Earth's final century, free flow of information is the only safeguard against tyranny. The once-chained people whose leaders at last loose their grip on information flow will soon burst with freedom and vitality, but the free nation gradually constricting its grip on public discourse has begun its rapid slide into despotism. Beware of he who would deny you access to information, for in his heart he dreams himself your master."
I wasn't claiming anything other than facts can not be changed by reports and court rulings.
Thanks to the more rational responses to my comment I was given information I did not having, links to peer reviewed studies on the matter, unlike the other responses.
OP; "Smallpox is wiped out", as in gone completely.
Me:"It still exists, in labs", amending OP's statment.
Now I think I should have titled my comment "Amendment".
You are correct that there have not being any cases anywhere in the WORLD for over 20 years, but that does not mean that the virus no longer exists and could never resurface. If it was truly a non-threat why do they still inoculate US service personnel against it? Maybe because the Smallpox virus has not been wiped out.
You raise a valid point, though I really wouldn't call it "cheating nature" since both human male and females are fertile into their forties, with males able to father a child well into their nineties, without any intervention by medical technologies.
I've heard about some studies that show that the older a man gets the more genetic abnormalities are present in his sperm. This would also substantiate your point.
Normaly in nature as males age they loose the ability to procreate not because of their age but due to younger males displacing them in the gene pool, this does not happen as much in humans where fitness as a mate is not governed by physical ability alone but also, and in some cases supplanted by intelligence or just the ability to provide for a family. As exemplified by the older males who are wealthy enough to attract and hold a younger mate that would otherwise go be with someone younger and stronger.
But its not consistent across the board, even couples under 30 are having autistic children, so while the age of the parents does appear to be a factor it does not preclude other factors as well from causing the sudden and drastic increase observed over the last 20 years.
Since increased age has been linked to genetic abnormalities there may also be other environmental factors that cause similar, or identical, damage to the reproductive cells, thus the general increase can be seen as representative of both the "normal" genetic abnormalities found in older parents and the genetic damage caused by some environmental factor or factors.
No mater the final cause there is still much research that must be done on the matter and also the issue of how society is going to deal with the huge influx of autistic people into the general population, it is a simple fact that while some autistic people can adapt and learn to function in society at large their are also many who can not, and society must adapt to them, or deal with the issue another way.
As I indicated earlier, its going to be interesting to see how it all plays out.
Maybe the mod is one of the people I ticked off.
Boy, I sure stirred up a hornets nest with just the suggestion that there may have been a link between autism and the vaccines. Another poster pointed me at a report that blows that correlation out of the water, its one of the other reply's to my first comment that started this all off if your intersted.
Also thanks for the stand up, though this is a first, I've never been modded "Flamebait" before. I better get some fireproof underwear if this keeps up.
What is even funnier to me is that not one reply had anything to say about my main comment, that smallpox had not been wiped out.
As to why I'm not totally up to speed, I don't watch TV and lately haven't been keeping to to date on whats happening in ASD research, or most other fields really, too much crap going on in my life distracting me lately.
I think your right about how the diagnosis rate is also impacting the total, but considering the numbers, how did it go from 1:10,000 to 1:100 so fast? Then there is also the mis-diagnoses that happens where a child who gets slotted into the niche of autistic because they are just a little "slow" or "think differently", That might also be throwing the numbers off a little but the rest is just staggering, just the high functional children are going to need a new school systems that can work with their needs, never mind the one who completely cut themselves off from the world.
Just from the range of responses my comment generated it is a very touchy issue for everyone. And they all completely ignored the main point of my comment, that smallpox is has not been eradicated. Funny how people lock on to things that trigger emotional responses and ignore everything else. Kind of makes me wonder if the ASD ratio is going to end up 1:2 or 1:1 for some populations when all is said and done.
Thanks for the update, I was just about to use the 1:120 in another reply.
At this rate its going to be 1:1 soon. I wonder if there is some kind of environmental factor like population density that flips some switch to reduce a species population that has become too successful? Kind of like lemmings.
Oh, I touched a nerve. So sorry.
Thank you for proving that you can read something more complex than Dr.Zeus books, I was worried.
I never said that there wasn't another cause to the spike in autism rates. In fact another poster, who seemed to comprehend what I was saying, sent a link to an study showing that even with thimerosal completely removed from the equation the autism rates are still climbing, thus further invalidating the claim by some parties of a connection between thimerosal and autism.
You on the other hand simple claimed that "scientific evidence" would show the rate would not change, you where right by the way, and expected your opinion to trump mine by shear force of will. Looks like I'm not the only one who needs to take a debate class.
And yes, I can draw, but you wouldn't like it, I use shades of Grey and sometimes even colors.
I was basing my comment on an article I read a few years ago stating that thimerosal was still found in some vaccines being administered at the time but that it was in the proccess of being completely phased out. Thank you for the updated info.
Another poster has provided me with a link to a report that even in the areas where thimerosal was not used the autism rate was still climbing, haven't read it yet.
I am amazed at how one comment about the claim of a thimerosal/autism link has stirred up a hornets nest of responses.
THANK YOU!!
You have no idea how refreshing it is to get a clear, concise response to my comment that sounds like you actually understood what I was trying say.
I was unaware of the study you linked to, I'll read it later over a fresh cup of coffee.
So if the report is valid then the possible thimerosal/autism coneection can be laid to rest. Of course now the question is what is causing the increase in autism, if it wasn't the mercury then what else changed?
The search continues.
Once again, Thank you.
I am really getting tired of having to explain myself on slashdot. This comment is not directed at the PP specifically but in general to those readers who seem to fail to really parse through what is being said in a comment before replying.
My point, which you seem to have missed, was that the autism rate changed, and it occurred around the same time the number of vaccines containing thimerosal given to children was increased. This fact is not changed by any of the medical reports saying there is no connection or what a court may decide.
With me so far?
It is an accepted fact that the rate of autism has increased. Note that I never said anything about the vaccines actually causing the change, just that the change occurred at around the same time.
Just in cased you missed it, I never claimed that the correlation of the change in autism and the use of thimerosal containing vaccines was proof of causation.
Still with me?
My last comment about how it will be interesting to see if the rate of autism changes now that thimerosal is being phased out totally agrees with your comment about how "scientific evidence says it won't", to wit, if there is NO change in thee rate then the claims of a link between thimerosal and autism will be further invalidated.
Did you follow all that or should I start drawing pictures?
Your close.
What I'm trying to get across is that there are claims that the sudden and rapid increase in autism in America was caused by the mercury based preservative thimerosal used in many of the vaccines in use at the time. The autism rate began to climb about the same time that the number of vaccines containing thimerosal being given to children also increased. I never said that the vaccines where the cause of the spike but the timing of the two events is close enough that a link is possible, but not that there is a link. That is why its going to be interesting to see if the rate changes, thimerosal has been phased out but the number of vaccines being given is unchanged, one variable has been altered, if the autism rate changes then it validates the possibility that there was a link, not that there is one.
Fact: high levels of mercury will cause serious neurological issues in the human brain at any age. In infants the high levels may cause permanent damage, I don't know, I have not researched it and I'm not a pediatrician.
My comments about smallpox is completely separate from the ones on thimerosal and autism. You seem to have confused the two.
EXACTLY!!!
That's why I said it will be interesting to see if the rate changes.
If the rate of autism drops then they need to take another look at the possible autism/vaccine connection.
If the rate does not change then it validates the claims that there never was a connection and the correlation between the increase in autism and the thimerosal in the vaccines of the time was a coincidence.
Are my posts really that hard to understand? This is the third comment on this topic where the commentators replying to my post seem to be missing my point.
Smallpox has not been wiped out, as in "no longer exists". There just are no outbreaks in the wild anymore.
There are currently 2 sources of the smallpox virus that need to be monitored.
First is the biological weapons stock piles, they have developed smallpox variants that will kill 90+% of the infected and for which even the current vaccines are useless.
Second is the fact that smallpox can remain viable for decades, all someone would have to do is dig up a well preserved body of a person who died from smallpox and they could harvest viable virus cultures to use on a population that currently has no defense against it, which is most of the world since smallpox vaccinations are not routine anymore.
A side note: an single vaccination with a vaccine using thimerosal would not raise mercury levels to unsafe amounts in a child, it is believed that the multiple injections with a very short time, sometimes all on the same day, would raise the mercury level in the blood to levels that caused damage.
No matter what the court or the pharmacorp sponsored studies may say autism went from 1:10,000 to 1:120 in the span of a decade at the same time that new vaccination protocols where implemented.
Now that thimerosal is being replaced it will be interesting to see if the autism rate changes.
Want a fun read?
Seach the following;
Aspartame
Sucralose
Acesulfame
I'd link but my html-fu is weak and I have too much to do today to look it up at the moment.
You think you got problems?
Try getting hooked on REAL cinnamon, not that cheap cassia stuff.
50% voiced strong opposition to being chipped.
The other 50% is undecided.
The undecided responded to the question with a "Meow" before returning to her nap, but since it is neither yes or no was counted as "No Opinion".
See how much fun statistics can be! Learn to manipulate public opinion for fun and profit, ask me how!