Vendor lock-in is never good for consumers. If phone manufacturers had worked like you said and mostly stuck to a standard connector except in cases when they had a better one then I guarantee this legislation wouldn't even have been suggested. Instead we had a situation where every single phone manufacture had a different charging/data socket (none of which were any better than any others) and simply used that to charge over the odds for data and charging cables, both ripping off consumers and creating mountains of thrown away proprietary chargers.
In this case the free market failed to serve consumers, there was no competition between different connector designs, connectors were simply created for the sake of having a different connector to sell expensive peripherals for.
Twits in government are generally not qualified to second-guess the decisions of world-class industrial designers
The government didn't invent micro-usb you dolt, it was created as a standard by world-class industrial designers. The fact that it is an industry standard makes it an obvious choice for a standard power/data socket on phones.
Now, if Sir Jonathan Ive was actually interested in serving the public good rather than lining his own pocket then why was he not there advising the USB Implementers Forum on connector designs?
If you RTFA you'll find it's a bit more than "hardly confirmed":
A tiny slice of the black pebble was put through isotopic analysis, which definitely ruled out that it came from a meteor. Instead, the analysis showed that the pebble possessed the unique chemical signature of a comet, measured in terms of elements such as argon and carbon.
It's not regulating you personally, companies are still free to use whatever proprietary connectors they like in the US market. However, it's such a sensible choice that most phone makers have adopted micro-usb universally.
I don't know. Why do we need anti-monopoly laws? Do you think that those monopolies could have been created without the government making the rules that allowed it?
What rules specifically allow monopolies to form and engage in anticompetitive behaviour? If there were no rules (a kind of Ayn Rand libertarian dream) there would be nothing no stop a corporation from becoming as big as it liked and stifling competition as much they they like. Rules don't create this, rules are required to protect consumers and smaller businesses from this.
Government is behind all of it; government directed not by villains but by well-intentioned individuals created all of this mess.
Well-intentioned individuals? More like carrier politicians riding on "small government" manifestos making rules that favour the companies that donate the most money to them.
At least in Europe we have saner voting systems that allow for more than 2 parties and a more sensible view on the role of government to stand up for people, not to just stand up for large corporations in the guise of being "free market" friendly.
So instead of the government making sure that companies have to offer you a good deal, you'd rather choose between a bad deal or a worse deal from "free" companies because guv'mnt is always bad, mkay?
So you're happy to throw your draw of expensive Samsung chargers away if you bought an HTC, or have to carry 2 sets of chargers for your Acer tablet and your Nokia phone?
Government is always the very worst answer to any problem. Always
And what about my point on mobile networks? Which is better for consumers, the more heavily regulated European mobile networks or the "freer" US networks?
Government is always the best answer, in fact the only answer, to when elements in the free market get to big to be controlled by that market and work against consumers. If government is always the worst answer then why do we need anti-monopoly laws? Surely it would be better to let companies get as big as they like and do what ever they like to succeed, because that's the "free market"?
overregulation kills industry and kills countires.
Oh really, how about mobile operators? In Europe operators are more regulated and the technology they use more standardised by the government than in the US, yet call plans are cheaper and people can more easily switch providers.
The fact is that when companies can standardise between themselves there is no problem (as what happened with things like HDMI), but when every company is creating its own charging standard for no more reason than to sell overpriced chargers that is when government should step in and impose order.
What really kills countries (as can be seen in the US quite frankly) is the idea that the market always leads to what is good for consumers and thus shouldn't be touched. For much of the time the market works, but when it doesn't (and starts working against consumers) then you have to step in and adjust it. If you don't then all that happens is ordinary people pay more for an, on the whole, worse experience.
Did you read anything I wrote? I'll say again, if Apple, Samsung, Sony, HTC, Motorola and Nokia all used different proprietary connectors then what would you buy instead?
The fact is that if every large company in a particular industry is acting in a way that is bad for consumers then the only people that can help you are the government. Just look at the state of mobile carriers; In Europe, with its regulated and standardised mobile operators, call plans are a lot cheaper and it's much easier to switch networks compared to the less regulated US.
You have to draw a line somewhere otherwise it's year on year throwing away chargers when you get a new phone, like it was before. Standards do update but it just lengthens the update cycle. I'm sure micro-usb will be replaced in good time, but charger technology does not change enough year on year to make up for the expense and wastefulness of having a different proprietary connector for every different phone model.
The government should not "protect large companies from consumers' best interests", but it should allow the market to determine standards
The market created the micro-usb standard, however companies still needed an extra push to stop using proprietary connectors.
If you don't like a product because it doesn't work with what your other products, don't buy it.
Yes that's so easy to say, but if Apple, Samsung, Sony, HTC, Motorola and Nokia all used different proprietary connectors then what would you buy instead? That cheap Chinese knockoff that uses micro-usb? No, people would still buy the big brands, still carry the proprietary cable/charger with them everywhere and still begrudgingly throw out their drawer of incompatible chargers whenever they changed to a different phone brand.
In this instance the free market failed consumers, and I'm glad the EU has the balls to say that actually no, it's not ok to make consumers throw away perfectly good chargers if they change phone brands.
Lets imagine a world where the DDR, DVI, IDE, SATA, USB etc. standards exist but all computer companies use their own proprietary interfaces almost exclusively. Dell computers only work with Dell ram, Dell, monitors, Dell harddrives and Dell keyboard/mice, Samsung laptops require Samsung hard-drives, Samsung thumb-drives, Samsung monitors etc.
After all, that's perfect private enterprise right? Consumers are free to choose whoever's ecosystem they like!
Is that better? Is it wrong that, seeing the wasteful and expensive consumer lock-in this creates, a government like the EU wouldn't step in to standardise?
If an industry fails to act in consumers' best interest then it is the duty of the government to step in and protect the consumers, not to protect large companies from consumers' best interests.
Ok, you misunderstood me. When I said "USB is by far the most popular combined power/data cable standard around" I meant for all computers and devices, I wasn't talking about phone chargers at all. That's one of the reasons why it's such as obvious choice, because it's an absolutely ubiquitous standard for data transfer, and also carries power over the same cable. The fact that so many phones also had USB to proprietary connector adapters makes it obvious to just standardise to USB, and micro-USB is the official standard connector for small devices.
why should the EU MANDATE anything in this regard? let companies choose whats best for their designs. EU makes me barf sometimes. hint hint: let companies design the best products for less money and your economy will grow.
Because this is the mess that the free market left us with.
Unlike the US, if corporate policy is harming consumers then the EU is more willing to step in and legislate for consumer's benefit. How exactly is allowing companies to churn out endless expensive proprietary connectors forcing consumers to waste money throwing away incompatible power adapters going to help the economy? Seems more like the broken window fallacy to me.
in america we believe in something called private enterprise. where people can make products and sell them.
Rubbish, the US has plenty of standards. Would you like to see every home and apartment have its own proprietary mains power sockets? Every car manufacturer have its own type of filling nozzle? Every wi-fi router require a proprietary wi-fi adapter? Every TV and DVD player have its own proprietary video connector? No, I didn't think so. Why should phones be any different?
Remember that this was the free market's answer to phone charging, the EU decided that it was in citizens interests that a standard be set up so we don't have to deal with endless proprietary cables any more.
Why is it popular? Because the EU got tired of all the different proprietary connections and mandated USB.
No, it's popular because USB beat other competing standards in the late 90s/early 00s. The EU mandated USB because USB as been the de-facto standard for 10+ years already. Did you forget how old USB was or something?
Because, while it would be an improvement over the situation before of completely proprietary power adapters, you still have the problem of over-priced proprietary cables and having to carry your device specific usb cable around rather than just being able to grab any micro-usb cable. Do you really want to go back to the days of dealing with this?
Not to mention MicroUSB has a big hole in the center asking for stuff to get stuck in it, and needs to be inserted a specific direction, both flaws you cannot associate with lightning
Well then what's this if not a "big hole in the center asking for stuff to get stuck in it"?
What complete muppet designed USB, a frequent plug-unplug connector by nature, to have orientation?
Can you name any frequent plug-unplug data cable standard that was multi-orientation before the Lightning connector? The only examples I can think of are BNC and S/PDIF, both co-ax style connectors. Multi-orientation is a nice innovation, but it's also a new innovation and so will take a while to filter down into standards (especially if Apple are trying to limit this innovation to their own products rather than widely licensing it).
Remember the micro-usb standard was chosen several months before the iPhone 3GS was released, it's not like micro-usb was designed after the lightning connector.
There is almost no moral or practical difference concerning Apple between regulating the market such that a patent is worthless and simply taking away the patent and putting it in the public domain. Why in the world would they standardize on an inferior connector when they could just swipe Apple's?
What nonsense, if Apple wanted they could have both - say their preferred lightning connector on the bottom and a micro-usb socket on the side or top.
Slashdot Mirror
Vendor lock-in is never good for consumers. If phone manufacturers had worked like you said and mostly stuck to a standard connector except in cases when they had a better one then I guarantee this legislation wouldn't even have been suggested. Instead we had a situation where every single phone manufacture had a different charging/data socket (none of which were any better than any others) and simply used that to charge over the odds for data and charging cables, both ripping off consumers and creating mountains of thrown away proprietary chargers.
In this case the free market failed to serve consumers, there was no competition between different connector designs, connectors were simply created for the sake of having a different connector to sell expensive peripherals for.
Twits in government are generally not qualified to second-guess the decisions of world-class industrial designers
The government didn't invent micro-usb you dolt, it was created as a standard by world-class industrial designers. The fact that it is an industry standard makes it an obvious choice for a standard power/data socket on phones.
Now, if Sir Jonathan Ive was actually interested in serving the public good rather than lining his own pocket then why was he not there advising the USB Implementers Forum on connector designs?
Are you sure? I always remember them using proprietary formats wherever they could, remember minidisc?
If you RTFA you'll find it's a bit more than "hardly confirmed":
A tiny slice of the black pebble was put through isotopic analysis, which definitely ruled out that it came from a meteor. Instead, the analysis showed that the pebble possessed the unique chemical signature of a comet, measured in terms of elements such as argon and carbon.
Dude, goatse.cx was taken down years ago, now it's just a link to crowdfund an @goatse.cx webmail company (?!).
If you want to troll you need to link to goatse.ru
It's not regulating you personally, companies are still free to use whatever proprietary connectors they like in the US market. However, it's such a sensible choice that most phone makers have adopted micro-usb universally.
I don't know. Why do we need anti-monopoly laws? Do you think that those monopolies could have been created without the government making the rules that allowed it?
What rules specifically allow monopolies to form and engage in anticompetitive behaviour? If there were no rules (a kind of Ayn Rand libertarian dream) there would be nothing no stop a corporation from becoming as big as it liked and stifling competition as much they they like. Rules don't create this, rules are required to protect consumers and smaller businesses from this.
Government is behind all of it; government directed not by villains but by well-intentioned individuals created all of this mess.
Well-intentioned individuals? More like carrier politicians riding on "small government" manifestos making rules that favour the companies that donate the most money to them.
At least in Europe we have saner voting systems that allow for more than 2 parties and a more sensible view on the role of government to stand up for people, not to just stand up for large corporations in the guise of being "free market" friendly.
So instead of the government making sure that companies have to offer you a good deal, you'd rather choose between a bad deal or a worse deal from "free" companies because guv'mnt is always bad, mkay?
So you're happy to throw your draw of expensive Samsung chargers away if you bought an HTC, or have to carry 2 sets of chargers for your Acer tablet and your Nokia phone?
Government is always the very worst answer to any problem. Always
And what about my point on mobile networks? Which is better for consumers, the more heavily regulated European mobile networks or the "freer" US networks?
Government is always the best answer, in fact the only answer, to when elements in the free market get to big to be controlled by that market and work against consumers. If government is always the worst answer then why do we need anti-monopoly laws? Surely it would be better to let companies get as big as they like and do what ever they like to succeed, because that's the "free market"?
overregulation kills industry and kills countires.
Oh really, how about mobile operators? In Europe operators are more regulated and the technology they use more standardised by the government than in the US, yet call plans are cheaper and people can more easily switch providers.
The fact is that when companies can standardise between themselves there is no problem (as what happened with things like HDMI), but when every company is creating its own charging standard for no more reason than to sell overpriced chargers that is when government should step in and impose order.
What really kills countries (as can be seen in the US quite frankly) is the idea that the market always leads to what is good for consumers and thus shouldn't be touched. For much of the time the market works, but when it doesn't (and starts working against consumers) then you have to step in and adjust it. If you don't then all that happens is ordinary people pay more for an, on the whole, worse experience.
Did you read anything I wrote? I'll say again, if Apple, Samsung, Sony, HTC, Motorola and Nokia all used different proprietary connectors then what would you buy instead?
The fact is that if every large company in a particular industry is acting in a way that is bad for consumers then the only people that can help you are the government. Just look at the state of mobile carriers; In Europe, with its regulated and standardised mobile operators, call plans are a lot cheaper and it's much easier to switch networks compared to the less regulated US.
You have to draw a line somewhere otherwise it's year on year throwing away chargers when you get a new phone, like it was before. Standards do update but it just lengthens the update cycle. I'm sure micro-usb will be replaced in good time, but charger technology does not change enough year on year to make up for the expense and wastefulness of having a different proprietary connector for every different phone model.
The government should not "protect large companies from consumers' best interests", but it should allow the market to determine standards
The market created the micro-usb standard, however companies still needed an extra push to stop using proprietary connectors.
If you don't like a product because it doesn't work with what your other products, don't buy it.
Yes that's so easy to say, but if Apple, Samsung, Sony, HTC, Motorola and Nokia all used different proprietary connectors then what would you buy instead? That cheap Chinese knockoff that uses micro-usb? No, people would still buy the big brands, still carry the proprietary cable/charger with them everywhere and still begrudgingly throw out their drawer of incompatible chargers whenever they changed to a different phone brand.
In this instance the free market failed consumers, and I'm glad the EU has the balls to say that actually no, it's not ok to make consumers throw away perfectly good chargers if they change phone brands.
Lets imagine a world where the DDR, DVI, IDE, SATA, USB etc. standards exist but all computer companies use their own proprietary interfaces almost exclusively. Dell computers only work with Dell ram, Dell, monitors, Dell harddrives and Dell keyboard/mice, Samsung laptops require Samsung hard-drives, Samsung thumb-drives, Samsung monitors etc.
After all, that's perfect private enterprise right? Consumers are free to choose whoever's ecosystem they like!
Is that better? Is it wrong that, seeing the wasteful and expensive consumer lock-in this creates, a government like the EU wouldn't step in to standardise?
If an industry fails to act in consumers' best interest then it is the duty of the government to step in and protect the consumers, not to protect large companies from consumers' best interests.
Well why don't you show us, scientifically, how micro-usb is less durable than mini-usb?
Countries do have national standards, that's my point.
Of course, mandating a standard connector is pretty consumer-unfriendly - but that's just my 2 cents.
In what Ayn Randite bizarro world is making companies use a universal, compatible connector type consumer-unfriendly ??
Well it's a case of either putting companies at a disadvantage or putting consumers at a disadvantage, which is better?
Ok, you misunderstood me. When I said "USB is by far the most popular combined power/data cable standard around" I meant for all computers and devices, I wasn't talking about phone chargers at all. That's one of the reasons why it's such as obvious choice, because it's an absolutely ubiquitous standard for data transfer, and also carries power over the same cable. The fact that so many phones also had USB to proprietary connector adapters makes it obvious to just standardise to USB, and micro-USB is the official standard connector for small devices.
why should the EU MANDATE anything in this regard? let companies choose whats best for their designs. EU makes me barf sometimes. hint hint: let companies design the best products for less money and your economy will grow.
Because this is the mess that the free market left us with.
Unlike the US, if corporate policy is harming consumers then the EU is more willing to step in and legislate for consumer's benefit. How exactly is allowing companies to churn out endless expensive proprietary connectors forcing consumers to waste money throwing away incompatible power adapters going to help the economy? Seems more like the broken window fallacy to me.
in america we believe in something called private enterprise. where people can make products and sell them.
Rubbish, the US has plenty of standards. Would you like to see every home and apartment have its own proprietary mains power sockets? Every car manufacturer have its own type of filling nozzle? Every wi-fi router require a proprietary wi-fi adapter? Every TV and DVD player have its own proprietary video connector? No, I didn't think so. Why should phones be any different?
Remember that this was the free market's answer to phone charging, the EU decided that it was in citizens interests that a standard be set up so we don't have to deal with endless proprietary cables any more.
Why is it popular? Because the EU got tired of all the different proprietary connections and mandated USB.
No, it's popular because USB beat other competing standards in the late 90s/early 00s. The EU mandated USB because USB as been the de-facto standard for 10+ years already. Did you forget how old USB was or something?
Because, while it would be an improvement over the situation before of completely proprietary power adapters, you still have the problem of over-priced proprietary cables and having to carry your device specific usb cable around rather than just being able to grab any micro-usb cable. Do you really want to go back to the days of dealing with this?
Not to mention MicroUSB has a big hole in the center asking for stuff to get stuck in it, and needs to be inserted a specific direction, both flaws you cannot associate with lightning
Well then what's this if not a "big hole in the center asking for stuff to get stuck in it"?
What complete muppet designed USB, a frequent plug-unplug connector by nature, to have orientation?
Can you name any frequent plug-unplug data cable standard that was multi-orientation before the Lightning connector? The only examples I can think of are BNC and S/PDIF, both co-ax style connectors. Multi-orientation is a nice innovation, but it's also a new innovation and so will take a while to filter down into standards (especially if Apple are trying to limit this innovation to their own products rather than widely licensing it).
Remember the micro-usb standard was chosen several months before the iPhone 3GS was released, it's not like micro-usb was designed after the lightning connector.
There is almost no moral or practical difference concerning Apple between regulating the market such that a patent is worthless and simply taking away the patent and putting it in the public domain. Why in the world would they standardize on an inferior connector when they could just swipe Apple's?
What nonsense, if Apple wanted they could have both - say their preferred lightning connector on the bottom and a micro-usb socket on the side or top.