Re:Alternative Ogg codecs? (with OggFile)
on
Icecast 2.0 Released
·
· Score: 2, Interesting
I think Ogg needs it's own framework for codec plugins, if for no other reason than for media players that want to support Ogg but don't want to include Gstreamer as a dependency.
Also OggFile is going to be useful for functions other than encoding/decoding. Having direct access to libogg2 means being able to do things like bitstream manipulations (cutting, pasting, etc) and, of course, Icecast and libshout (neither of which do encoding/decoding, but just stream pacing).
It seems like Gstreamer supporting Ogg codecs directly is a redundency which should be replaced by OggFile, not an argument against OggFile's development.
Re:Alternative Ogg codecs? (with OggFile)
on
Icecast 2.0 Released
·
· Score: 2, Informative
Gstreamer's function would not change, it's a layer of abstraction between applications and the media formats they support. The same can be said about SDL, etc.
OggFile could simply add an extra layer of abstraction between Gstreamer (and other multimedia libraries) and the media they access. So, instead of Gstreamer needing specific support for each Ogg codec, it will be able to support just OggFile and let the codecs each be added as plugins to OggFile.
You see, Ogg (.ogg) is just a multimedia container format designed for easily seeking/streaming variable bitrate codecs. Vorbis, Flac, Speex, Theora, etc are Ogg codecs, that is, they were designed specifically to be used with Ogg. That doesn't mean they have to be used with Ogg, nor does it mean that they are the only ones (DivX, for example).
Don't forget to mention that OddSock also has DSP stream sources for Winamp and Foobar (not just XMMS). These media player plugins work with multiple servers and, with Icecast2, supports MP3 and Ogg. Shoutcast and Icecast1 can only support MP3.
Re:Alternative Ogg codecs? (with OggFile)
on
Icecast 2.0 Released
·
· Score: 3, Informative
Monty is working on something called OggFile, which will be part of libogg2 (currently available in CVS). Basically, the goal is that OggFile will work alot like current proprietary systems (Real, Quicktime, etc) in that any program that uses OggFile will be able to transparently support any codec which OggFile supports (via plugins).
When OggFile becomes useable support for it will be added to Icecast, whereas we'll have support to stream Flac, Speex, Theora (video), any other Ogg codec available at the time. Also, with OggFile, source clients and media players will be able to support these codec combinations, whereas very few players currently support Speex or Flac streaming now.
DRM is being used with Ogg. You must have missed this slashdot
article back in April (no it wasn't an April Fools joke).
What's more, it's Free Software, dual licensed under the GPL or their
"binary only" license. If you pay for it, part of it will even go to
the EFF and Xiph foundations. Check out the OggS project page.
I believe this was already covered by/., but a company called FineArch
has developed a Vorbis-only decoder. Check out their English Site,
and prehaps email them for more information.
I agree with Lshmael, consumer demand for Ogg is unlikely to increase.
I doubt we'll ever see even a small percentage of "chart topping" music
encoded in Ogg Vorbis, either for sale or traded on P2P networks.
Most cultural consumers are unlikely to even see an file with a.ogg
extension. The goal isn't to change this, either.
Ogg Vorbis isn't marketed for the consumer market. It's marketed for
those who create music because it's the nature of humans as social
creatures to create and share art entertainment and information. Free
culture, the creative and intellectual commons, where copyright and
patent are seen as inhibitors to our advancement as a culture and
species.
For those people who Ogg Vorbis serves, there is no competition. For
the media to be free the medium must also be free, and Ogg is the best
patent free audio codec available.
Ogg isn't part of the "codec wars". It's part of a far greater battle,
with stakes much higher than the order of bits that music gets
distributed with.
It took me longer, roughly 5 days, to kick it. The withdraw was more severe than many I've read here, having flu like symtoms and constantly feeling cold while sweating.
I found that after I was clean I got sick less often, felt more rested in the morning, and I could actually taste my food.
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Also OggFile is going to be useful for functions other than encoding/decoding. Having direct access to libogg2 means being able to do things like bitstream manipulations (cutting, pasting, etc) and, of course, Icecast and libshout (neither of which do encoding/decoding, but just stream pacing).
It seems like Gstreamer supporting Ogg codecs directly is a redundency which should be replaced by OggFile, not an argument against OggFile's development.
OggFile could simply add an extra layer of abstraction between Gstreamer (and other multimedia libraries) and the media they access. So, instead of Gstreamer needing specific support for each Ogg codec, it will be able to support just OggFile and let the codecs each be added as plugins to OggFile.
You see, Ogg (.ogg) is just a multimedia container format designed for easily seeking/streaming variable bitrate codecs. Vorbis, Flac, Speex, Theora, etc are Ogg codecs, that is, they were designed specifically to be used with Ogg. That doesn't mean they have to be used with Ogg, nor does it mean that they are the only ones (DivX, for example).
Don't forget to mention that OddSock also has DSP stream sources for Winamp and Foobar (not just XMMS). These media player plugins work with multiple servers and, with Icecast2, supports MP3 and Ogg. Shoutcast and Icecast1 can only support MP3.
When OggFile becomes useable support for it will be added to Icecast, whereas we'll have support to stream Flac, Speex, Theora (video), any other Ogg codec available at the time. Also, with OggFile, source clients and media players will be able to support these codec combinations, whereas very few players currently support Speex or Flac streaming now.
What's more, it's Free Software, dual licensed under the GPL or their "binary only" license. If you pay for it, part of it will even go to the EFF and Xiph foundations. Check out the OggS project page.
I believe this was already covered by /., but a company called FineArch
has developed a Vorbis-only decoder. Check out their English Site,
and prehaps email them for more information.
I doubt we'll ever see even a small percentage of "chart topping" music encoded in Ogg Vorbis, either for sale or traded on P2P networks. Most cultural consumers are unlikely to even see an file with a .ogg
extension. The goal isn't to change this, either.
Ogg Vorbis isn't marketed for the consumer market. It's marketed for those who create music because it's the nature of humans as social creatures to create and share art entertainment and information. Free culture, the creative and intellectual commons, where copyright and patent are seen as inhibitors to our advancement as a culture and species.
For those people who Ogg Vorbis serves, there is no competition. For the media to be free the medium must also be free, and Ogg is the best patent free audio codec available.
Ogg isn't part of the "codec wars". It's part of a far greater battle, with stakes much higher than the order of bits that music gets distributed with.
It took me longer, roughly 5 days, to kick it. The withdraw was more severe than many I've read here, having flu like symtoms and constantly feeling cold while sweating.
I found that after I was clean I got sick less often, felt more rested in the morning, and I could actually taste my food.