Let's not forget things as fee's. When you use your Credit card to pay PayPal there is a merchant charge. This charge varies but it can (easily) be around 1.25 + 1% of sales. This is paid by the merchant, not the client. So if you are buying something for 1 cent, even 25 cent's, the merchant is not only not making money, he is losing money!
Now a company like PayPal probably has a pretty good system in place, where their credit card charge is less then mom-n-pop merchant - but they still have costs
It's not that we can't do micropayments, it's just that it is not cost effective.
Wrong. All those games were sold mainly on the reputation of the programmers' earlier work. Marketing hardly made a difference there. Except for Doom3, those are all decent products that were popularized through word-of-mouth.
All those games were HIGHLY marketed. Doom3 was the biggest...Half life2 was rated as one of the most anticipated games to come out - and they were marketing the crap out of it. WoW is new and what you didn't see all the ads? I have seen tv commercial ads for Doom3 and WoW. I have seen each of these games talked about on gaming shows, magazines, posters, billboards, etc. Thats marketing. The fact that any of these made it to TV is very impressive....typically computer games do not make it to TV commercial advertising.
Fine:
"Doom."
There. I proved my point. Like I said in the _original_ post: there hasn't been a good game to come out of the "garage-band" game scene in 15 years.
Next time RTFthread.
(Kudos for being an asswipe and not posting anonymously.)
Yes because Doom, a game in the early 90's, that was a few megs in size compares to games that need to be placed on DVD's.
I don't think "idiot" is a fair term. They could have offered the lead developer a nice salary - even if he doesn't produce a world winning game. They could have offered a bonus. They could have just said "hey you need a job and we are offering 45k/year...do you want it".
Saying "sure" is not being an idiot, it is taking the best thing offered to you at that given time. An idiot would be a person who refuses to take the best job offered because they didn't offer everything he wanted.
That is the optimal word. If the carpenter spends his own time in making designs, and you want to utilize that design then sure. But, if you pay the carpenter money to design and build those cabinets you own that design unless some other contract was made. Or if you pay the carpenter money and Buy the design (meaning you tell the carpenter he can't use it for anyone else, ever). It all depends how it was negotiated.
So if I go work for X game manufacturer, and we negotiated in my contract that I do not own ANYTHING that I make while working for these guys, then that is the agreement that *I* signed. If the next title I make earns tons of money (i.e. WoW), unless my contract stipulates a bonus then I have no moral or legal recourse. If I want to I can leave to start my own company, I can ask for a bonus or a nice raise - but they are not morally or legally obligated to give me these.
NO! NO! NO! NO!
In my opinion that comment is a HUGE copout! I absolutely believe a good game can be written by someone with average programming skills and above-average creativity.
I realize that sounds like it contradicts my original statement about "not being enough good programmers", but I'm really driving at the creativity and self-motiviation aspect here.
I've witness this in primitive form with art students who are persuing game programming degrees. Typically they have basic programming skills, but manage to pull of some very enjoyable interactive software.
I have faith that it doens't cost money to make a good game!
Ok, then prove it. Find me a freeware game that can compare to Counterstrike, WoW, Doom, EQ, etc. There aren't none. People will always take free over pay - so the moment a HIGH quality game comes out that is free (free as in beer) then you will get people to take it. But this won't happen. Even if a couple of mediocre programmers sit in their garage doing this work, and get it done in a timely fashion (under a year) - and then manage to market and promote it...do you think they will spend all that time and resource and give it for free? Please introduce me to these people, I will be happy to join their crowd.
Game testers are not, by far, anyway relevant to the shaping of the product EXCEPT for: All they do is say "yea here is the bug" or "yea this is cool" but by the time the game gets into playtesters hands the game is already made. Too late to change concept.
Pre-development is the most important. I was hanging out in a comic book store as a kid and some marketers came in. We all got in a group and they showed us concept art, storylines, etc. They asked for our opinion on what we would like to see in the game. We told them. That is where the consumer is most important.
Yes marketers are VERY important. Do not belittle them because you are fedup with spam. These guys are trained to find out what the majority of the public want...it may not be what you want, but guess what they are not making their product for a minority....or do you play games like WoW, EQ, 1/2-Life, Doom3, etc? Then you fell for some marketers ploy.
from posting on someone's forum or blog, who I don't like, and hope they get sued.
ALright, with luck I can post as an AC on/., saying how bad a big company is, and have them sue CmdrTaco:) W000T!!! CmdrTaco I want my mod points or else!
This just shows how stupid courts can get, and I swear, judges should really just smack some people around.
Graves have always been a problem for New Orleans area. They have always said that floods, and the fact that properties are built over swamp land, will cause these graves to uproot. Well if there was ever a flood to prove that theory it's now. I feel bad for those who are uninsured..and I am sure there are a lot of people in those areas.
This does not help you in such cases as:
Your car
Your face gear (glasses, goggles, masks)
Home windows (sometimes they get foggy)
Also, it would be nice if I didn't have to waste my expensive shaving cream on my mirror (not that I use shaving cream, which is another problem).
They do have those mirrors that connect to your shower head and it trickles down warm water. The warm water keeps the mirror at the same temp as the shower, and you get no fog.
Ohhhhhh. That makes sense. Though you would think they could do something like slingshot around pluto or something out of Star Trek then time hop back;)
Students go to school 3 days a week, and learn the rest of the week from home. Colleges do it.
If they really want to make it cool, half the class goes to school on Monday/wednesday/friday. The other half goes on tuesday/thursday.
The part of the class that goes three days a week goes for shorter periods (maybe 5 hours/day) while the other guys go 7 hours/day. This helps bring smaller class sizes. Students can learn from home.
Her statement implies that all P2P is used for is to send movies, music and games which are considered (for the most part, and by the majority population) illegal. I do not disagree that sending a movie w/o permission is illegal, but I disagree that is the sole purpose of P2P. She needed to clarify her statements, because her lack of clarification made a big statement. That is my problem.
Hmmm.... I believe you mean "libel", not "liable", though I am going to take the high road and will not raise questions about what accredited school you attend or attended....
By making this statement you already took the low road and questioned my educational background. You seem to be inferring, that by making a spelling mistake, I have poor schooling. Have you ever made a typo, or just spelled a word incorrectly? In all actuality, I had a strong feeling I was spelling the word incorrectly, but due to the loose nature of this forum, I really didn't care to check up on it.
You know, you really shouldn't call the kettle black since you made a spelling error Univeristy. Also, Hmmm.... I believe is not using correct sentence structure. We can also talk about northern Ireland which should be "Northern Ireland".
Yes we all make mistakes, but if you are going to rag about it, then you better make sure your shit smells good.
It's the point that saying, w/o any addendums, "Media files" implies what I originally said. I know pirating happens, I won't deny it, but many people use P2Ps for legit purposes.
I don't d/l my movies *EVAR* --- I pay for them through NetFlix:D Much better quality, and less work - for only 17/month thats a steal...I mean deal.
Oh I didn't D/L any Brittany Spears album...I bought them (runs, ducks, "NO I AM NOT GAY, SHE IS UBER HOT, EVEN WHEN PREGNANT")
Except it implies that is the only purpose of P2P, which continues to spread the stigma that P2P is only for sending such files. And when people think of "media files" they think of movies, music, copyrights, pirating, bad bad bad little hackers in their momma's basement stealing from those poor movie artists.
Without trying to be offensive to you. As long as this is an accredited school (particularly the department that did this research) and the education these scientists have comes from an accredited school then your statements are nothing more then gibberish, and possibly liable.
I always found it amusing that people cannot comprehend and accept there are differences between the sexes. I know one person who REFUSES to believe that on average men are stronger then women, and men are faster then women. Also, the strongest man is stronger then the strongest woman, and the fastest man is faster then the fastest woman.
Physically men are, hands down more dominate. That is an easy conclusion everyone can do on their own. Men were, historically and even today, considered the hunters. They have greater upper body strength. br
Now to go on and say men are smarter. While I am not doubting these findings (I haven't done any such research) there will be a lot of pissed off people in denial - no matter how much evidence. The only reason for this is people refuse to fathom that not all sexes/races are created equal.
Slashdot Mirror
I stubled across this article today
You should try the Mach 3. It's tri-blade system gives you an extra smooth shave so you too can avoid stublingacross articles.
Let's not forget things as fee's. When you use your Credit card to pay PayPal there is a merchant charge. This charge varies but it can (easily) be around 1.25 + 1% of sales. This is paid by the merchant, not the client. So if you are buying something for 1 cent, even 25 cent's, the merchant is not only not making money, he is losing money!
Now a company like PayPal probably has a pretty good system in place, where their credit card charge is less then mom-n-pop merchant - but they still have costs
It's not that we can't do micropayments, it's just that it is not cost effective.
Wrong. All those games were sold mainly on the reputation of the programmers' earlier work. Marketing hardly made a difference there. Except for Doom3, those are all decent products that were popularized through word-of-mouth.
All those games were HIGHLY marketed. Doom3 was the biggest...Half life2 was rated as one of the most anticipated games to come out - and they were marketing the crap out of it. WoW is new and what you didn't see all the ads? I have seen tv commercial ads for Doom3 and WoW. I have seen each of these games talked about on gaming shows, magazines, posters, billboards, etc. Thats marketing. The fact that any of these made it to TV is very impressive....typically computer games do not make it to TV commercial advertising.
Fine: "Doom." There. I proved my point. Like I said in the _original_ post: there hasn't been a good game to come out of the "garage-band" game scene in 15 years. Next time RTFthread. (Kudos for being an asswipe and not posting anonymously.)
Yes because Doom, a game in the early 90's, that was a few megs in size compares to games that need to be placed on DVD's.
I am proud of being an asswipe, and never post AC
You're right
/. can admit the truth.
It's about time someone from
God forbid someone back up their statements with something other then sarcism.
I don't think "idiot" is a fair term. They could have offered the lead developer a nice salary - even if he doesn't produce a world winning game. They could have offered a bonus. They could have just said "hey you need a job and we are offering 45k/year...do you want it".
Saying "sure" is not being an idiot, it is taking the best thing offered to you at that given time. An idiot would be a person who refuses to take the best job offered because they didn't offer everything he wanted.
could
That is the optimal word. If the carpenter spends his own time in making designs, and you want to utilize that design then sure. But, if you pay the carpenter money to design and build those cabinets you own that design unless some other contract was made. Or if you pay the carpenter money and Buy the design (meaning you tell the carpenter he can't use it for anyone else, ever). It all depends how it was negotiated.
So if I go work for X game manufacturer, and we negotiated in my contract that I do not own ANYTHING that I make while working for these guys, then that is the agreement that *I* signed. If the next title I make earns tons of money (i.e. WoW), unless my contract stipulates a bonus then I have no moral or legal recourse. If I want to I can leave to start my own company, I can ask for a bonus or a nice raise - but they are not morally or legally obligated to give me these.
NO! NO! NO! NO! In my opinion that comment is a HUGE copout! I absolutely believe a good game can be written by someone with average programming skills and above-average creativity. I realize that sounds like it contradicts my original statement about "not being enough good programmers", but I'm really driving at the creativity and self-motiviation aspect here. I've witness this in primitive form with art students who are persuing game programming degrees. Typically they have basic programming skills, but manage to pull of some very enjoyable interactive software. I have faith that it doens't cost money to make a good game!
Ok, then prove it. Find me a freeware game that can compare to Counterstrike, WoW, Doom, EQ, etc. There aren't none. People will always take free over pay - so the moment a HIGH quality game comes out that is free (free as in beer) then you will get people to take it. But this won't happen. Even if a couple of mediocre programmers sit in their garage doing this work, and get it done in a timely fashion (under a year) - and then manage to market and promote it...do you think they will spend all that time and resource and give it for free? Please introduce me to these people, I will be happy to join their crowd.
Game testers are not, by far, anyway relevant to the shaping of the product EXCEPT for: All they do is say "yea here is the bug" or "yea this is cool" but by the time the game gets into playtesters hands the game is already made. Too late to change concept.
Pre-development is the most important. I was hanging out in a comic book store as a kid and some marketers came in. We all got in a group and they showed us concept art, storylines, etc. They asked for our opinion on what we would like to see in the game. We told them. That is where the consumer is most important.
Yes marketers are VERY important. Do not belittle them because you are fedup with spam. These guys are trained to find out what the majority of the public want...it may not be what you want, but guess what they are not making their product for a minority....or do you play games like WoW, EQ, 1/2-Life, Doom3, etc? Then you fell for some marketers ploy.
from posting on someone's forum or blog, who I don't like, and hope they get sued.
/., saying how bad a big company is, and have them sue CmdrTaco :) W000T!!! CmdrTaco I want my mod points or else!
ALright, with luck I can post as an AC on
This just shows how stupid courts can get, and I swear, judges should really just smack some people around.
Graves have always been a problem for New Orleans area. They have always said that floods, and the fact that properties are built over swamp land, will cause these graves to uproot. Well if there was ever a flood to prove that theory it's now. I feel bad for those who are uninsured..and I am sure there are a lot of people in those areas.
This does not help you in such cases as:
Your car
Your face gear (glasses, goggles, masks)
Home windows (sometimes they get foggy)
Also, it would be nice if I didn't have to waste my expensive shaving cream on my mirror (not that I use shaving cream, which is another problem).
They do have those mirrors that connect to your shower head and it trickles down warm water. The warm water keeps the mirror at the same temp as the shower, and you get no fog.
Ohhhhhh. That makes sense. Though you would think they could do something like slingshot around pluto or something out of Star Trek then time hop back ;)
That it is going to take us 50,000 years to send a probe to pluto and back? Wow. So much for the dreams of a child going into space :(
Students go to school 3 days a week, and learn the rest of the week from home.
Colleges do it.
If they really want to make it cool, half the class goes to school on Monday/wednesday/friday. The other half goes on tuesday/thursday.
The part of the class that goes three days a week goes for shorter periods (maybe 5 hours/day) while the other guys go 7 hours/day. This helps bring smaller class sizes. Students can learn from home.
Her statement implies that all P2P is used for is to send movies, music and games which are considered (for the most part, and by the majority population) illegal. I do not disagree that sending a movie w/o permission is illegal, but I disagree that is the sole purpose of P2P. She needed to clarify her statements, because her lack of clarification made a big statement. That is my problem.
Because, for the THIRD time, "Media files" has a stigma behind it and has a specific implication - movies, music, games.
While I am not doubting the numbers, I think it is an unfair stigma.
Read all the thread replies under my name before replying, you would have seen I stated this a few times (though in different words).
Hmmm.... I believe you mean "libel", not "liable", though I am going to take the high road and will not raise questions about what accredited school you attend or attended....
By making this statement you already took the low road and questioned my educational background. You seem to be inferring, that by making a spelling mistake, I have poor schooling. Have you ever made a typo, or just spelled a word incorrectly? In all actuality, I had a strong feeling I was spelling the word incorrectly, but due to the loose nature of this forum, I really didn't care to check up on it.
You know, you really shouldn't call the kettle black since you made a spelling error Univeristy. Also, Hmmm.... I believe is not using correct sentence structure. We can also talk about northern Ireland which should be "Northern Ireland".
Yes we all make mistakes, but if you are going to rag about it, then you better make sure your shit smells good.
Someone instruct me as to how my above post is flamebait? I am replying, logically, to a person who replied to me.
It's the point that saying, w/o any addendums, "Media files" implies what I originally said. I know pirating happens, I won't deny it, but many people use P2Ps for legit purposes.
:D Much better quality, and less work - for only 17/month thats a steal...I mean deal.
I don't d/l my movies *EVAR* --- I pay for them through NetFlix
Oh I didn't D/L any Brittany Spears album...I bought them (runs, ducks, "NO I AM NOT GAY, SHE IS UBER HOT, EVEN WHEN PREGNANT")
Except it implies that is the only purpose of P2P, which continues to spread the stigma that P2P is only for sending such files. And when people think of "media files" they think of movies, music, copyrights, pirating, bad bad bad little hackers in their momma's basement stealing from those poor movie artists.
swap and share large media files, said Mr Mauldin. "
She just says "swap and share large files"
Without trying to be offensive to you. As long as this is an accredited school (particularly the department that did this research) and the education these scientists have comes from an accredited school then your statements are nothing more then gibberish, and possibly liable.
I always found it amusing that people cannot comprehend and accept there are differences between the sexes. I know one person who REFUSES to believe that on average men are stronger then women, and men are faster then women. Also, the strongest man is stronger then the strongest woman, and the fastest man is faster then the fastest woman.
Physically men are, hands down more dominate. That is an easy conclusion everyone can do on their own. Men were, historically and even today, considered the hunters. They have greater upper body strength.
br Now to go on and say men are smarter. While I am not doubting these findings (I haven't done any such research) there will be a lot of pissed off people in denial - no matter how much evidence. The only reason for this is people refuse to fathom that not all sexes/races are created equal.
Yes it would, except the thread starter would have a sympathetic comment instead of a derrogetory one.