The iPhone 3G can be jailbroken as of quite recently. This more or less makes it a totally non-locked-down device; to the point that the kernel isn't checked by the bootloader anymore and can run custom kexts.
Nevertheless, because of its superior capabilities, IF the N810 had a GSM radio like the iPhone, I would absolutely get one of them instead -- and also, I wouldn't have to worry about dancing around the manufacturer to be able to do what I wanted.
He said slower CPU, not older or different, and then you agree with him while trying to disagree!
My point was that it was barely slower while being a much more capable device.
He said memory, not storage.
And I was right, and he was wrong.
the N810 only supports up to 8GB cards
I'm afraid not, it supports whatever miniSDHC cards you can put into it, and 16GB cards are already out.
The iPhone has bluetooth, and it works very well.
As an iPhone owner, I can confirm this is quite false. The iPhone has no Bluetooth stack as such; rather it has a bit of stub code that allows headsets to function and that's it. This is because Apple hates any technology outside its control, and it does not control Bluetooth. It lacks A2DP, OBEX, and several other key Bluetooth functions for no reason beyond Jobs' control obsession.
You start by comparing a Nokia phone with the iPod touch and complain that the iPod Touch isn't as capable (Well, duh!)
No, I didn't. The N810 is not a phone. It is an ARM-based MID, just like the iPod touch. I didn't "change my argument to be about the iPhone," which is a MORE capable device than either the iPod touch or the N810. I pointed things out about it because it is a similar device to the iPod touch and I actually own it.
Out of the box, the N810 is a more capable device than the iPod touch. The Bluetooth, GPS and USB hosting are just three examples of why. That's not so much "specs" (MHz, etc.) as "what it can do."
Now, that said, the iPt is a bit cheaper. But to me, it's no contest between the two. The feature set of the N810 is far and away better than the iPt's.
Putting a phone into either one of these devices changes the equation SIGNIFICANTLY. I own an iPhone (jailbroken, of course), and would not trade it for anything else on the market right now.
It has the same CPU at a slightly slower clock rate and the same amount of memory. It takes SDHC cards, so saying it has "less storage" would be dishonest.
You could start with the physical keyboard, Bluetooth, lack of application restrictions, and the fact that it plays more formats of media as for it being more capable.
I currently own an iPhone. If there existed a device like the N810 with a GSM radio, I would buy it immediately and sell the iPhone. Unfortunately, I fear such a device will not exist for quite some time -- more than likely, years -- due to pressure from cellular carriers on handset makers to get them not to produce such a device.
Carriers do not like devices that empower their customers.
You're talking about building rough-quality, not at ALL suited for production use CRAP. This stuff isn't even suited for prototyping and is insanely expensive.
Again. Not suited for mere mortals. Building anything like a real device requires massive capital investment compared to what some undergrad in college who wants a better phone can come up with.
my main box can do anything your iphone can via cli
Sure it can. However, it cannot ALSO take photographs, use WWAN broadband, send/receive text messages, etc. It is the convergence between these things that is useful and interesting.
Using the phone as a terminal is precisely what I do -- along with other things.
should you want a phone with UNIX on it. OpenMoko is a disastrous failure and is restricted by hardware from becoming any better.
1) Not really a big deal. 2) Not really a big deal either. 3) Who cares? Those aren't phones, for the most part. 4) Not a real criticism, $199 + $70/mo for service is entirely fair. 5) Not actually, no. 6) So what? It has 8GB (or more) of storage.
If I was a mindless consumer, I would have immediately "upgraded" to firmware 2.0. I did not, largely because I want to retain customizability and the fantastic MobileTerminal application which doesn't quite work right on 2.0 yet.
Jailbreaking this thing is like buying a stylish little city runabout, then trying to haul a 2 tonne boat with it.
Spoken like someone who has never actually USED a jailbroken iPhone.
I do AIM on the command line, use scp on a regular basis, grep for files, etc. etc. etc. You can't do that on your Symbian device. You can't do it on a Windows Mobile device, either.
Finally, if you don't like the look, it does come with the CAD plans, so you can shape the case differently. Heck, fork the case design! That's what open source is about. Mutate. Fork. Survival of the fittest. But everything stays free and that rules.
Sorry, WHAT? In what universe do mere mortals have the resources to do this? Do you stop and think before mindlessly advocating how wonderful open-source stuff is?
Software is easy. Hardware is comparatively IMPOSSIBLE.
Malware writers on the iPhone could not only steal your identity, but also keep track of your every move.
Please provide citations of every time this has happened on a Windows Mobile device (with its inferior security architecture) or a Symbian device (with its further inferior security architecture) or a RIM device.
I think every jail-broken iPhone should get at least one good piece malware as a just punishment for screwing around with a perfectly good, very secure product.
A) How is this a remotely "just" punishment for doing what you want to do with YOUR hardware? B) How exactly are YOU harmed by ME jailbreaking MY phone?
I wish those who have a jail broken phone lots of luck to NOT get all sorts of worms, spyware and other digital vermin such as all Windows PCs get.
Strangely enough, none of what you have mentioned here has come to pass in roughly a year of explosively growing software development for jailbroken iPhones and iPod touches.
Take your ridiculous paranoia and "please nanny me!" mentality elsewhere.
Support the suppliers who are not trying to lock down the hardware.
There aren't any.
Ironclad control of the customer is the only way any company that actually doesn't suck at product development knows how to do business these days. Hacking into your own devices is the only way to get anything useful done.
Apple have CLEARLY been looking the other way when it comes to jailbreak on the iPhone. They did nothing to "fix" PwnageTool. Hurting jailbreak will only reduce their bottom-line.
I think it is stupid to buy a locked down device to jailbreak it, especially when there are more open options available.
The iPhone is the *only* device on which it is possible to have a UNIX environment on a cell phone. Period. There are no others. OpenMoko on FreeRunner is, frankly, a complete pile of trash, and it is possible to improve it only so far. It suffers from serious hardware deficiencies such as a lack of useful input methods, a lack of WWAN, and a seriously compromised system bus which really cripples its video and networking capabilities. Its software is also utterly terrible and suffers from a huge lack of direction and focus in its development.
The standard response to this on Slashdot is something along the lines of "LOL WELL U CAN FIX IT URSELF CUZ ITS OPENSORSE." Okay, chief. I hope you have a great time building, from the ground up, an entire software stack for an open-specification cell phone. By yourself. Because no one will help you. The rest of the OSS developers for OpenMoko are locked in on their own going-nowhere projects.
Having Telesphoreo, ssh, etc. on my phone, which is equipped with EDGE and WiFi, has been ENORMOUSLY useful any number of times. A jailbroken iPhone is beholden to its user and no one else.
I'm sure the THEORETICAL numbers are available somewhere. Practically, the statistics are going to vary widely and almost certainly be much worse in every case. Cellular companies underbuild their networks as a matter of course.
Don't be an asshole, junior. I used to work for AT&T Local Services; I know what I'm talking about.
Meebo manages to look and perform like a native app, and it supports multiple services to boot.
I haven't found this to be the case at all. For me, Meebo has been largely worthless compared to on-phone clients that actually "speak AIM" to the AIM servers. It is much, MUCH slower.
Of course, I eventually abandoned Apollo, MobileChat and AgileMessenger in favor of bsflite, which is lightning-fast, crash-free and very easy to use. It's also CLI.
Slashdot Mirror
for being a non-fanboy about these things.
This works absolutely fine; I can confirm this having used it myself.
As for GPS, there's always this guy: http://iphone-gps.blogspot.com/
The iPhone 3G can be jailbroken as of quite recently. This more or less makes it a totally non-locked-down device; to the point that the kernel isn't checked by the bootloader anymore and can run custom kexts.
Nevertheless, because of its superior capabilities, IF the N810 had a GSM radio like the iPhone, I would absolutely get one of them instead -- and also, I wouldn't have to worry about dancing around the manufacturer to be able to do what I wanted.
My point was that it was barely slower while being a much more capable device.
And I was right, and he was wrong.
I'm afraid not, it supports whatever miniSDHC cards you can put into it, and 16GB cards are already out.
As an iPhone owner, I can confirm this is quite false. The iPhone has no Bluetooth stack as such; rather it has a bit of stub code that allows headsets to function and that's it. This is because Apple hates any technology outside its control, and it does not control Bluetooth. It lacks A2DP, OBEX, and several other key Bluetooth functions for no reason beyond Jobs' control obsession.
No, I didn't. The N810 is not a phone. It is an ARM-based MID, just like the iPod touch. I didn't "change my argument to be about the iPhone," which is a MORE capable device than either the iPod touch or the N810. I pointed things out about it because it is a similar device to the iPod touch and I actually own it.
All of these.
Out of the box, the N810 is a more capable device than the iPod touch. The Bluetooth, GPS and USB hosting are just three examples of why. That's not so much "specs" (MHz, etc.) as "what it can do."
Now, that said, the iPt is a bit cheaper. But to me, it's no contest between the two. The feature set of the N810 is far and away better than the iPt's.
Putting a phone into either one of these devices changes the equation SIGNIFICANTLY. I own an iPhone (jailbroken, of course), and would not trade it for anything else on the market right now.
Why?
It has the same CPU at a slightly slower clock rate and the same amount of memory. It takes SDHC cards, so saying it has "less storage" would be dishonest.
You could start with the physical keyboard, Bluetooth, lack of application restrictions, and the fact that it plays more formats of media as for it being more capable.
I currently own an iPhone. If there existed a device like the N810 with a GSM radio, I would buy it immediately and sell the iPhone. Unfortunately, I fear such a device will not exist for quite some time -- more than likely, years -- due to pressure from cellular carriers on handset makers to get them not to produce such a device.
Carriers do not like devices that empower their customers.
http://www.consumerdepot.com/products.asp?id=N810RB&referer=google
It is not only "like" the iPod touch, it is far and away more capable.
You're talking about building rough-quality, not at ALL suited for production use CRAP. This stuff isn't even suited for prototyping and is insanely expensive.
Again. Not suited for mere mortals. Building anything like a real device requires massive capital investment compared to what some undergrad in college who wants a better phone can come up with.
Sure it can. However, it cannot ALSO take photographs, use WWAN broadband, send/receive text messages, etc. It is the convergence between these things that is useful and interesting.
Using the phone as a terminal is precisely what I do -- along with other things.
should you want a phone with UNIX on it. OpenMoko is a disastrous failure and is restricted by hardware from becoming any better.
1) Not really a big deal.
2) Not really a big deal either.
3) Who cares? Those aren't phones, for the most part.
4) Not a real criticism, $199 + $70/mo for service is entirely fair.
5) Not actually, no.
6) So what? It has 8GB (or more) of storage.
If I was a mindless consumer, I would have immediately "upgraded" to firmware 2.0. I did not, largely because I want to retain customizability and the fantastic MobileTerminal application which doesn't quite work right on 2.0 yet.
Spoken like someone who has never actually USED a jailbroken iPhone.
I was speaking in the context of the highly technical users that read /., not Mom.
do not necessarily match others'.
I do AIM on the command line, use scp on a regular basis, grep for files, etc. etc. etc. You can't do that on your Symbian device. You can't do it on a Windows Mobile device, either.
I'm plural, and so am I.
Sorry, WHAT? In what universe do mere mortals have the resources to do this? Do you stop and think before mindlessly advocating how wonderful open-source stuff is?
Software is easy. Hardware is comparatively IMPOSSIBLE.
I almost raged here, and then stopped and laughed. Really, this whole thread was quite masterful. Well-done.
Please provide citations of every time this has happened on a Windows Mobile device (with its inferior security architecture) or a Symbian device (with its further inferior security architecture) or a RIM device.
A) How is this a remotely "just" punishment for doing what you want to do with YOUR hardware?
B) How exactly are YOU harmed by ME jailbreaking MY phone?
I wish those who have a jail broken phone lots of luck to NOT get all sorts of worms, spyware and other digital vermin such as all Windows PCs get.
Strangely enough, none of what you have mentioned here has come to pass in roughly a year of explosively growing software development for jailbroken iPhones and iPod touches.
Take your ridiculous paranoia and "please nanny me!" mentality elsewhere.
Support the suppliers who are not trying to lock down the hardware.
There aren't any.
Ironclad control of the customer is the only way any company that actually doesn't suck at product development knows how to do business these days. Hacking into your own devices is the only way to get anything useful done.
Apple have CLEARLY been looking the other way when it comes to jailbreak on the iPhone. They did nothing to "fix" PwnageTool. Hurting jailbreak will only reduce their bottom-line.
I think it is stupid to buy a locked down device to jailbreak it, especially when there are more open options available.
The iPhone is the *only* device on which it is possible to have a UNIX environment on a cell phone. Period. There are no others. OpenMoko on FreeRunner is, frankly, a complete pile of trash, and it is possible to improve it only so far. It suffers from serious hardware deficiencies such as a lack of useful input methods, a lack of WWAN, and a seriously compromised system bus which really cripples its video and networking capabilities. Its software is also utterly terrible and suffers from a huge lack of direction and focus in its development.
The standard response to this on Slashdot is something along the lines of "LOL WELL U CAN FIX IT URSELF CUZ ITS OPENSORSE." Okay, chief. I hope you have a great time building, from the ground up, an entire software stack for an open-specification cell phone. By yourself. Because no one will help you. The rest of the OSS developers for OpenMoko are locked in on their own going-nowhere projects.
Having Telesphoreo, ssh, etc. on my phone, which is equipped with EDGE and WiFi, has been ENORMOUSLY useful any number of times. A jailbroken iPhone is beholden to its user and no one else.
Should we repeal the 17th Amendment? You are in favor of less democracy why, exactly, in an age of hyperconnectedness to information?
I'm sure the THEORETICAL numbers are available somewhere. Practically, the statistics are going to vary widely and almost certainly be much worse in every case. Cellular companies underbuild their networks as a matter of course.
Don't be an asshole, junior. I used to work for AT&T Local Services; I know what I'm talking about.
http://developer.att.com/developer/index.jsp?page=toolsTechDetail&id=7600078
600ms on EDGE and an average of 150ms on HSPA? Please. Watch what happens when the network sees ANY kind of serious usage.
Can anyone give us an ETA on a tool for 2.0 firmware jailbreak? Or at least instructions?
http://iphone-gps.blogspot.com/
Meebo manages to look and perform like a native app, and it supports multiple services to boot.
I haven't found this to be the case at all. For me, Meebo has been largely worthless compared to on-phone clients that actually "speak AIM" to the AIM servers. It is much, MUCH slower.
Of course, I eventually abandoned Apollo, MobileChat and AgileMessenger in favor of bsflite, which is lightning-fast, crash-free and very easy to use. It's also CLI.