Bloody socialists. My garbage is mine to dispose of as I see fit -- after, all I created it through my own private endeavour! To see it wrested from my hands is frankly an assault on my liberty and a chilling curb on garbage creators like me everywhere. By golly, if they take too much of my garbage, I'll be forced to move overseas.
That's just giving in to communism. They'll have to pry my garbage out of my cold dead hands.
Well before we had massive schools for churning out people ready for factory work
You stupid fuck, it is only universal education that allows non-priveleged children to aspire to anything more than "factory work".
The smart kids, the ones truly motivated to learn, will find a way.
You can't design society solely around the top 0.1% whether it's by wealth or intelligence. Well, you can, but it's called fascism, and if that's what you want you are a truly ignorant human being who has never studied history, philosophy, psychology or ethics.
Home-schooling, especially in the mid-western states, is a greater threat to teachers than OLPC.
No, home schooling is a greater threat to a cohesive society than to teachers. The odd special case with severe socialising problems or whose life is being made impossible due to bullying - fair enough. But religious or political zealots who don't want their kids being corrupted by ideas about evolution or the non-supremacy of "the white race"? Fuck 'em, their kids should be dragged kicking and screaming to the nearest proper school, and the parents placed under the watch of social services.
I realise this isn't going to go down well with the slashdot "liberty before sanity" crowd, but who cares?
There is not a single state in the U.S. where average teacher's salary is below $40,000 a year. Not only that but the starting salary for teacher's in every state is in excess of $30,000.
But if the average is, say, $60K then for every teacher earning $80K by definition there must be at least one earning $40K.
Most union positions end up having ridiculous numbers of sick days, outrageous pensions unheard of in non-union positions, and inability to get fired even for extreme incompetence
If unions were ever allowed to negotiate unaffordable pensions for their members (as I believe people claim happened in the US car industry) then that is the fault of the stupid employers for agreeing to those demands.
You wouldn't agree pay rises which guaranteed you perpetual losses, as this would also lead to the company going bust. The point is, it's not the unions' job to know everything about the financial resources of companies, although it would be better if everyone followed the German model and they did.
But in your precious "free market" model, companies have only themselves to blame if they redistribute too much of their profits. They're the ones that control how they are distributed.
A public union is an absurd idea in the first place, who is supposedly 'oppressing' these teachers? They are working for the government, who is this 'evil capitalist' that is oppressing them?
So what happens when a rightwing government gets elected and wants to slash government workers' salaries and rights?
The idea that "the government" is one monumental socialist monolith designed purely to rob from poor tax payers is just a disgusting rightwing fantasy.
Why are you so upset about teachers making 80K (and paying tax on that) while saying nothing about executives and the rich making tens of millions per year while paying little to no tax? It's like complaining about losing a few cents while hundred dollar bills are flying out the window.
Teachers are employed by the government. The government is evil. Therefore teachers are evil.
Teachers are organised by a trade union. Unions are evil. Therefore teachers are evil.
Teachers do not measure their success by the size of their annual bonus. Therefore teachers do not believe in the free market. Therefore teachers are evil.
Teachers work in a profession designed to help other people. This is altruism, which is evil. Therefore teachers are evil.
Etc., etc., etc.
Basically, teaching as a profession does not fit in well with the libertarian me-me-me ideology that seems to be all the rage here.
WE did the same thing and had ZERO problems like you did. There was two differences...
1 - Private School.
2 - No Teacher Union.
Public schools have these problems, Private schools don't.
There should be no private (UK public) schools, simple as that. I do not see any justification for your parents' wealth allowing you a better education. It just perpetuates the class divide which Americans naively assume doesn't exist in the US, and allows stupid (but well connected) people to get on in life.
The problem isn't the rate of increase, it's that the people paying for it don't have a choice in the matter.
Those of us who don't work for the state can't bribe our bosses with our votes to threaten to steal our neighbors' houses if they don't give us what we want.
No, no you're doing it wrong.
What you're supposed to say is that all Taxation is THEFT based on the underlying THREAT of violence and ultimately MURDER as it is always taken at the BARREL of a GUN.
Am I the only one who thinks a 4% annual raise -- that's ~1.5% annually above inflation -- is a perfectly normal rate of increase? I would hope that a year of experience would be worth a 2% raise. That's going from $50k salary to $51k salary, with inflation adjustment. Not exactly Goldman Sachs.
What are you, some sort of communist? Goldman Sachs are hard working free market risk taking studs with giant balls of polished brass, not friggin' hippies.
I've worked in the medical device industry as well... and... probably the biggest problem there as well is the various professional organization and unions
Or what are also known as "medical professionals rather than cost accountants and managers".
You must have been one of those very keen pupils who was ahead of their classmates and found school a bit of a bore. As did I. It's a common complaint on slashdot, but it has zero relevance to 99% of teachers and kids.
If you let most kids free on the internet or whatever to learn for themselves, they'd just spend all day looking at YouTube and come to school the next day knowing nothing except the lyrics and dance moves to some crappy new Korean song.
The difference is that only government employees can use the state's taxing power to enforce their demands on the rest of the population. The most everybody else can do is bitch about it.
If they were that powerful, surely the unions would have all their members on $1m a year for 10 hours a week and a guarantteed 110% final salary pension?
That is the lie that gets dragged out when it is proven that teachers are not in poverty.
So a profession that requires a degree, some sort of post graduate training and a high degree of dedication is overpaid because they earn more than someone at McDonald's?
They should move to a school district that values their teaching skills. If they are unable to find a new job in a better-paying district, there's a good chance their teaching skills aren't all that phenomenal.
Mediocre teachers deserve mediocre pay, just as spectacular teachers deserve spectacular pay.
Being valued is not all about high pay, you superficial twat.
Poutine is a French-Canadian food that (very) slightly resembles American Gravy Cheese Fries
As it appears to be fries in gravy with cheese on top, that's not really surprising. But I'll pass on both, thanks.
Here in the UK, when you're drunk and need to eat something to stop yourself vomiting up your actual stomach lining, the acceptable non-kebab options are cheesy fries (mostly in the South) or Chips with gravy (almost entirely oop t' North). Mixing them is just barbaric.
Are you seriously bitching that people get RETIREMENT savings as part of their jobs?
I suppose my surprise comes from me growing up in the ultra liberal and communist haven of socialism known as The Socialist Scandinavian "Democratic" Dictatorship of Denmark.
Ha, but you'll never get to be US president, will you Mr Reds-under-and-probably-in-your-bed-you-dirty-hippy?
Don't forget, the teacher's union got teachers awesome perks.
Gosh, what a truly evil fucking thing for a union representing its members to do! Obviously they should have been working hand in hand with employers to cut pensions, increase working hours and abolish holidays in the name of efficiency and profit.
The National average for teachers is $56k. This is higher than the national average for the general population. If teachers are in poverty, then the nation as a whole is in poverty.
Yes but the national average for the general population will include people working as part time cleaners, on minimum wage in McDonalds, and so on.
A more useful comparison would at least be the national average for graduates in full time employment.
where are you that teachers make $80K? That does not jive with national salary rates.
In my school district (Santa Clara, California) elementary school teachers make an average of $78k. Many make more than $80k. If you live in California, you can use this site to see what teachers in your district are paid.
But for us non-Americans (never mind non-Californians) what is the average salary for other jobs compared to teachers?
In Santa Clara, what is the average salary for a cop, bank manager, hairdresser or plumber?
If the national average for teachers salaries is $56K then if GP's dad was a teacher in a low paid part of the country he could presumably have been earning $40K or so, which is indeed not anywhere near $80K a year.
But they give their money to evil and do not care enough about the children to actually stand up to their own unions.
If you think unions are evil, you must be one of those libertarian free-market fantasists who can say with a straight face that negotiations between an individual employee and an employer are done on an equal basis.
That's about GBP50K. In the UK a lot of head teachers (i.e. senior management) in schools don't earn that, never mind actual teachers who are just teaching.
I'm sure if you're Head of Something at Eton you do better, but that's hardly the point.
Slashdot Mirror
Bloody socialists. My garbage is mine to dispose of as I see fit -- after, all I created it through my own private endeavour! To see it wrested from my hands is frankly an assault on my liberty and a chilling curb on garbage creators like me everywhere. By golly, if they take too much of my garbage, I'll be forced to move overseas.
That's just giving in to communism. They'll have to pry my garbage out of my cold dead hands.
Well before we had massive schools for churning out people ready for factory work
You stupid fuck, it is only universal education that allows non-priveleged children to aspire to anything more than "factory work".
The smart kids, the ones truly motivated to learn, will find a way.
You can't design society solely around the top 0.1% whether it's by wealth or intelligence. Well, you can, but it's called fascism, and if that's what you want you are a truly ignorant human being who has never studied history, philosophy, psychology or ethics.
Home-schooling, especially in the mid-western states, is a greater threat to teachers than OLPC.
No, home schooling is a greater threat to a cohesive society than to teachers. The odd special case with severe socialising problems or whose life is being made impossible due to bullying - fair enough. But religious or political zealots who don't want their kids being corrupted by ideas about evolution or the non-supremacy of "the white race"? Fuck 'em, their kids should be dragged kicking and screaming to the nearest proper school, and the parents placed under the watch of social services.
I realise this isn't going to go down well with the slashdot "liberty before sanity" crowd, but who cares?
There is not a single state in the U.S. where average teacher's salary is below $40,000 a year. Not only that but the starting salary for teacher's in every state is in excess of $30,000.
But if the average is, say, $60K then for every teacher earning $80K by definition there must be at least one earning $40K.
Most union positions end up having ridiculous numbers of sick days, outrageous pensions unheard of in non-union positions, and inability to get fired even for extreme incompetence
If unions were ever allowed to negotiate unaffordable pensions for their members (as I believe people claim happened in the US car industry) then that is the fault of the stupid employers for agreeing to those demands.
You wouldn't agree pay rises which guaranteed you perpetual losses, as this would also lead to the company going bust. The point is, it's not the unions' job to know everything about the financial resources of companies, although it would be better if everyone followed the German model and they did.
But in your precious "free market" model, companies have only themselves to blame if they redistribute too much of their profits. They're the ones that control how they are distributed.
A public union is an absurd idea in the first place, who is supposedly 'oppressing' these teachers? They are working for the government, who is this 'evil capitalist' that is oppressing them?
So what happens when a rightwing government gets elected and wants to slash government workers' salaries and rights?
The idea that "the government" is one monumental socialist monolith designed purely to rob from poor tax payers is just a disgusting rightwing fantasy.
Why are you so upset about teachers making 80K (and paying tax on that) while saying nothing about executives and the rich making tens of millions per year while paying little to no tax? It's like complaining about losing a few cents while hundred dollar bills are flying out the window.
Teachers are employed by the government. The government is evil. Therefore teachers are evil.
Teachers are organised by a trade union. Unions are evil. Therefore teachers are evil.
Teachers do not measure their success by the size of their annual bonus. Therefore teachers do not believe in the free market. Therefore teachers are evil.
Teachers work in a profession designed to help other people. This is altruism, which is evil. Therefore teachers are evil.
Etc., etc., etc.
Basically, teaching as a profession does not fit in well with the libertarian me-me-me ideology that seems to be all the rage here.
WE did the same thing and had ZERO problems like you did. There was two differences...
1 - Private School. 2 - No Teacher Union.
Public schools have these problems, Private schools don't.
There should be no private (UK public) schools, simple as that. I do not see any justification for your parents' wealth allowing you a better education. It just perpetuates the class divide which Americans naively assume doesn't exist in the US, and allows stupid (but well connected) people to get on in life.
The problem isn't the rate of increase, it's that the people paying for it don't have a choice in the matter.
Those of us who don't work for the state can't bribe our bosses with our votes to threaten to steal our neighbors' houses if they don't give us what we want.
No, no you're doing it wrong.
What you're supposed to say is that all Taxation is THEFT based on the underlying THREAT of violence and ultimately MURDER as it is always taken at the BARREL of a GUN.
> (4-6% annual raises, EVERY YEAR)
Am I the only one who thinks a 4% annual raise -- that's ~1.5% annually above inflation -- is a perfectly normal rate of increase? I would hope that a year of experience would be worth a 2% raise. That's going from $50k salary to $51k salary, with inflation adjustment. Not exactly Goldman Sachs.
What are you, some sort of communist? Goldman Sachs are hard working free market risk taking studs with giant balls of polished brass, not friggin' hippies.
I've worked in the medical device industry as well... and... probably the biggest problem there as well is the various professional organization and unions
Or what are also known as "medical professionals rather than cost accountants and managers".
You must have been one of those very keen pupils who was ahead of their classmates and found school a bit of a bore. As did I. It's a common complaint on slashdot, but it has zero relevance to 99% of teachers and kids.
If you let most kids free on the internet or whatever to learn for themselves, they'd just spend all day looking at YouTube and come to school the next day knowing nothing except the lyrics and dance moves to some crappy new Korean song.
The difference is that only government employees can use the state's taxing power to enforce their demands on the rest of the population. The most everybody else can do is bitch about it.
If they were that powerful, surely the unions would have all their members on $1m a year for 10 hours a week and a guarantteed 110% final salary pension?
That is the lie that gets dragged out when it is proven that teachers are not in poverty.
So a profession that requires a degree, some sort of post graduate training and a high degree of dedication is overpaid because they earn more than someone at McDonald's?
You're weird.
They should move to a school district that values their teaching skills. If they are unable to find a new job in a better-paying district, there's a good chance their teaching skills aren't all that phenomenal.
Mediocre teachers deserve mediocre pay, just as spectacular teachers deserve spectacular pay.
Being valued is not all about high pay, you superficial twat.
Poutine is a French-Canadian food that (very) slightly resembles American Gravy Cheese Fries
As it appears to be fries in gravy with cheese on top, that's not really surprising. But I'll pass on both, thanks.
Here in the UK, when you're drunk and need to eat something to stop yourself vomiting up your actual stomach lining, the acceptable non-kebab options are cheesy fries (mostly in the South) or Chips with gravy (almost entirely oop t' North). Mixing them is just barbaric.
Are you seriously bitching that people get RETIREMENT savings as part of their jobs?
I suppose my surprise comes from me growing up in the ultra liberal and communist haven of socialism known as The Socialist Scandinavian "Democratic" Dictatorship of Denmark.
Ha, but you'll never get to be US president, will you Mr Reds-under-and-probably-in-your-bed-you-dirty-hippy?
Don't forget, the teacher's union got teachers awesome perks.
Gosh, what a truly evil fucking thing for a union representing its members to do! Obviously they should have been working hand in hand with employers to cut pensions, increase working hours and abolish holidays in the name of efficiency and profit.
The National average for teachers is $56k. This is higher than the national average for the general population. If teachers are in poverty, then the nation as a whole is in poverty.
Yes but the national average for the general population will include people working as part time cleaners, on minimum wage in McDonalds, and so on.
A more useful comparison would at least be the national average for graduates in full time employment.
where are you that teachers make $80K? That does not jive with national salary rates.
In my school district (Santa Clara, California) elementary school teachers make an average of $78k. Many make more than $80k. If you live in California, you can use this site to see what teachers in your district are paid.
But for us non-Americans (never mind non-Californians) what is the average salary for other jobs compared to teachers?
In Santa Clara, what is the average salary for a cop, bank manager, hairdresser or plumber?
If the national average for teachers salaries is $56K then if GP's dad was a teacher in a low paid part of the country he could presumably have been earning $40K or so, which is indeed not anywhere near $80K a year.
But they give their money to evil and do not care enough about the children to actually stand up to their own unions.
If you think unions are evil, you must be one of those libertarian free-market fantasists who can say with a straight face that negotiations between an individual employee and an employer are done on an equal basis.
Teachers in many California districts can make more than most engineers
Which teachers and which engineers and whereabouts? On the face of it, that is remarkably unlikely.
where are you that teachers make $80K?
Europe . . . ?
That's about GBP50K. In the UK a lot of head teachers (i.e. senior management) in schools don't earn that, never mind actual teachers who are just teaching.
I'm sure if you're Head of Something at Eton you do better, but that's hardly the point.
If you are going to a shelter, for God's sake, take your medication.
Nah, just take a big fuckig gun and help yourself to other people's medication. Then throw them out of the shelter.
It's the ideal time to put that old Randian phlosophy into action.