As far as both the individuals and the state being hypocritical, the analogy holds. You also use an individual approx= society and add herion addiction in there. It seems it is just as good of an analogy.
The state is made of individuals. And individuals are the ones making laws, and running the state. If the people who proclaimed "freedom", "libery for all", "equality" laws failed for a long time to see that slapping the chains on someone and treating them like a farm animal is wrong, then I could call them hypocrites and the country who's laws they are making "a hypocritical country".
This applies to modern days too perhps. Are we discriminating against gay marriages, but also proclaiming freedom and equality. Or how about other countries that proclaim economic freedom and free speech but imprisons the journalists -- same thing.
But to play off of your analogy. The heroin addict not just left the one who addicted him but also signed a contract (or told the judge) that "I will not do drugs anymore, I will seek treatment and get my life back together". If he continues to commit crimes to fuel his addiction -- he should be resonsible, and even more so because he said he would not do it anymore.
Good point. This is more of a "let's make fun of Bush" thread. Everyone likes to bash Bush even if they are contradicting among each other: "Like He's sooo stupid and stuff! He doesn't know what his is doing" but at the same time "He is really shrewd and evil and colluded with all these companies to enslave the American peole" etc...etc.
Why isn't anyone mentioning his call to research alternative forms of energy along the infamous "let's ban stem cell research". I thought that was a pretty good point. But of course it is easy to see everything in black and white, that is how the American society works -- everyone has to be in a certain category. "white male christian racist pro-life-but-also-for-capital-punishment republican", "white atheist pro-choice-but-also-for-peace liberal", "black angry racist criminal", or "immigrant stupid naive terrorist". Everyone is stereotyped into some category and no matter what they say or do, they will be judged first based on that category.
Same goes for heads of state. If he is a republican than no matter what he says the democarts will hate him. If he is a democrat all the republicans will hate his guts: "OMG Clinton got a blow-job in the office!!!" but they have no problem with Bush killing Iraqis for oil, like that's not immoral.
By now if you are still reading you are probably asking yourself, "Wtf? Who's side side is this guy on, he bashes Bush-haters but he also critisizes Bush...Huh?" If you ask yourself this question read the second paragraph again...
By the same argument there is no theft, lying and cheating, it is all inherited from the parents. So criminals should not be punishable, only their parents. If you commit whatever atrocity you are responsible for it. So the same country that proclaimed freedom, liberty, persuit of happiness should not, under any circumstance, tollerate enslavement -- no excuse if Europeans were doing, Aztecs were doing, Japanese were doing it -- it makes no difference. If you say "I put freedom first as my value" but then shackle someone and make them work on a plantation -- you are a hyporcrite, and offering excuses just make you look worse.
That is an exageration of course. But it all depends on the cost. If the price for a good horse was higher than the price for a slave (I am sure that might have been the case sometimes), then someone would treat the horse better than the slave, because they'll pay more for a replacement. So one would want to keep the slaves alive but there is also the human capacity to commit evil and pain, only for the sake of commiting evil and pain, especially against other humans, and what better settup to do that than in a master-slave relationship. In other words, the same people that beat their dog and their wife today, would be the slave owners who would torture their slaves in not so distant past...
But the point is not that someone would be treated below what the animals are treated (which is probably a hyperbole) but that they even would be treated close to what animals are treated. In other words once their human dignity and freedom was taken way, there is no point to compare between "oh this slave was tortured every day, but this one only once a week", or "he is treated just like the horse, but he is treated worse than the horse." In other words it is the enslavement that is the horrible part, the treatement is a necessary consequence after that.
Well, I meant the game in a figurative sense. But, speaking of the stuff Americas are built on, it would be good if the kids in US schools would also learn about the "not so pleasant" part of the US history. For example, everyone is indoctrinated about how noble and brave the settlers were. They came because they were escaping unjust persecution in Europe because of their religious beliefs. That may be true for a large part, but at the same time, a lot of those people came here because they wanted to hide from the law. It included many criminals, prostitutes, outlaws and other characters that where happy to run away from authorities and their home countries where "happy" to get rid of them. Also, the crimes and the oppression against the native americans is downlplayed heavily. The teachers don't want to confuse "little Johny" or "little Suzy" with sad stories about their beloved motherland -- ignorance works much better.
I don't know what would be so interesting about that. People have done it and do it all the time. There is nothing interesting in attrocities, they are all horrible but also boring. The fact that people can treat each less than animals is not a surprise. It seems that along with human capacity for thought, kindness, compassion and love comes the capacity to commit attrocities. There are many Hitlers, Stalins and Maos out there, even among your neighbours and friends. We just don't notice them because they don't have the power to commit evil on a large scale. Even "little Billy", the neighbourhood kid that likes to torture cats for pleasure and fun could, potentially become a Hitler given the circumstances.
Playing the "my genocide is better than your genocide" game, ah? If you think about it, it comes from the same mentality as "I am a bigger victim than you, so feel sorry for me more!".
How else is everyone supposed to regard your saying that Stalin's killing of 10 to 50 million of people or Hitler's Holocaust and extermination of 6+ million of Jews is just "small potatoes". How can one even compare genocides and call some insignificant and others very important.
I am not critisizing just you, I am just ranting in general, I have heard other do it, and the school system does it too. For example, everyone in US schools is taught about the Holocaust and every child has to write an essay on it, but not much is said about Stalin's killings, not much is said about the African genocides, (not just slavery but even the recent cases such as Darfur), and many others. In other words there is this implicit judgement -- these peoples' deaths are more important to talk about than those peoples' deaths. There is something wrong with that I think.
Thank you for expanding on the topic. All the information I had came from a friend who know someone who did an anthropology/linguistic study at UNM (I made the mistake and wrote NMU in my previous post). Accoring to that study, the Navajo tribes have detailed accounts of them being enslaved by Aztecs. They were not apparently enslaved on their current territory but somewhere around the Chaco canyon, in some kind of an Aztecan celestial observation outpost/colony. The accounts still need to be translated into English, but the level of details is impressive, including facts about gruesome torture practices particular to the Aztecs, as well as celestial observation and specific features of the Chaco landscape.
After the enslavement ended, the enslaved Navajo moved away from that region, and treat it as a graveyard up to present day. Which means they claim it as theirs, even though they did not live there for the longest time and would not even visit it under normal circumstances. Interestingly their claim to the land was granted by the Native American Graves Protection and Repatriation Act (had to look this one up), much to the dismay of other tribes inhabiting that region.
Speaking of cannibalism and such... According to my friend, there was someone in the anthropology/linguistics at NMU that was working at desciphering the old stories of Navajo tribes. Allegedly those stories contain detailed descriptions of slavery, cruelty and oppression at the hands of the Aztecs. The one that stuck in my mind was the story of a certain "Skin Walker" -- a chief or some kind of shaman that would skin the slaves alive and wear their skin. Another story, which is more common, is that the heart would be ripped out and eaten. All these gruesome practices of the Aztecs were crucial because they created fear and dread among the ensalved people, which kept them obidient.
It is interesting you mentioned the Aztecs. My friend, who lived in New Mexico for a while and mingled with the anthropology crowd at the NMU, told me that the Navajo around that region have detailed stories about how they were colonized and taken into slavery by the Aztecs. A particularly interesting story was how the Aztecs would run this celestial observatory in the canyons. Most of the stuff in their stories about the Aztecs though is about their cruelty and human sacrifice.
This stuff is fascinating because like every ingorant Joe out there I thought stuff (good and bad) started happening on the North American continent mostly after the Europeans settled. And such things as colonies, slavery and celestial observations would not have existed here before.
Good point, I noticed that too. And the reason is that 3DMark05 will probably not work on Wine at all.
But still, for an open source project to even accomplish what Wine did in the last couple of years is pretty good. I got Cedega Transgaming and it works pretty well too.
In other news...Saddams' WMDs have been found
on
Obesity Contagious?
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· Score: 0
According to Associated Press, Saddam's WMDs have finally been found -- rockets stuffed with BigMacs, hohos and extra yummy Krispy Kreme doughnuts, all targeted at small towns throughout the Southern part of United States of America.
It seems a hard fight lies in front of this brave nation. Fat viruses on one side, terrorist on the other. But we will prevail, Bush will lead us to victory. God Bless America!
Yeah, like I'am totally kewl you know... and stuff. Like I know 2 languages: English and JavaScripts. And I like Linux cause it is sooo much more k00l than windowz, you know!?
Ok! By popular demand, here it is: "I can make my IP change every hour."
But let me guess, you stop the whole IP block, buy why hot the whole ISP, then another ISP and keep blocking ISPs, well why stop there, block the whole internet.
Oh, but you can protect the pages. How many? How about all of them?.
The point here is that if people are allowed to do whatever they want to an encyclopedia, it might end up being a very inaccurate source. I wouldn't reference it in a paper to be published, that's for sure.
That is a big problem. Learning to use an application interface is very counter productive if one doesn't already understand the basics of the concept. This is the major challenge for those who take classes at places like a community college. Most often people who go there will not know what a file is, or what the CPU does, how a megabyte is different than a megahertz. They will be learning only how to use a specific application and stuff like "Click on the top left menu called File", "then click on Save As...","Then click on My Documents", "Then type the file name". Show these people a different operating system, a different program with the same basic functionality and they are completely lost. My mom was so shocked the other day that I could figure out how to use PageMaker even though I have never used it before. I used Quark Express and Scribus before though, and I know what a general layout program should do and can find how to do those things by poking around through the menus. That is the benefit of understanding the fundamental not just remembering menu sequences.
Kids should be learning both the applied and the abstract general concepts. So when learning about HTML, it would be good to know why are people using HTML, why not something else, what is HTML related to, how is it different than Java and stuff like that, while at the same time learning how to make pretty tables with nifty javascript event handlers that makes stuff blink and such.
Actally the so much touted review system of Wikipedia can be bypassed by an automatic updater. So if I want to say that E=mc^3 not E=mc^2 I could write a cron job that updates the Wiki page if it was reverted. The chances are when someone looks at the page, they will see my version not the correct one.
There are still many mechanical toys and gizmos to play with. Or how about teaching them about software? I used to love to write small little programs in basic that changed colors on the screen or simulated dice and such when I was 12. A kid can always have fun with the turtle graphics. The insides of TV sets are less interesting today but the insides of a computer tower could be fun to explore -- stick you finger in a 7000 RPM fan and other fun things...
I bet there you don't enter into a store and almost everything, at all times is on sale. "WOW! 30% discount -- I gotta get this deal" All that and combined with strict deadlines ("Quick the sale ends tomorrow!") seems to work wonders for the American department stores.
This is not new and is an old marketing trick. The store I know that does this the most is Macy's. My brother worked for them and their pricing works something like this: there are always 3 prices for each item: the retail price, which is an artificially high price that no items will ever be sold at, then there is the actual price of the item that it is selling now at, then there is the sale price. The discount for the sale price is calculated from the inflated retail price. So if you go their store and see a sofa that supposedly used to cost $2000 and not after the magic 50% sale, it costs only $1000, don't reach for the wallet just yet, because no one has ever sold that sofa for $2000 dollars. You can probably buy it at another store for $800. And the sale is there only to make you feel like you are getting a deal.
Would I really want to buy it, just so I can run all the programs I have in software emulation mode? -- I think I'll pass, I'd buy another Opteron instead...
It seems Intel and HP are like the macho guy who is lost and is obviously going the wrong way, but rather than admitting he made a mistake he keeps going further.
Slashdot Mirror
The state is made of individuals. And individuals are the ones making laws, and running the state. If the people who proclaimed "freedom", "libery for all", "equality" laws failed for a long time to see that slapping the chains on someone and treating them like a farm animal is wrong, then I could call them hypocrites and the country who's laws they are making "a hypocritical country".
This applies to modern days too perhps. Are we discriminating against gay marriages, but also proclaiming freedom and equality. Or how about other countries that proclaim economic freedom and free speech but imprisons the journalists -- same thing.
But to play off of your analogy. The heroin addict not just left the one who addicted him but also signed a contract (or told the judge) that "I will not do drugs anymore, I will seek treatment and get my life back together". If he continues to commit crimes to fuel his addiction -- he should be resonsible, and even more so because he said he would not do it anymore.
Why isn't anyone mentioning his call to research alternative forms of energy along the infamous "let's ban stem cell research". I thought that was a pretty good point. But of course it is easy to see everything in black and white, that is how the American society works -- everyone has to be in a certain category. "white male christian racist pro-life-but-also-for-capital-punishment republican", "white atheist pro-choice-but-also-for-peace liberal", "black angry racist criminal", or "immigrant stupid naive terrorist". Everyone is stereotyped into some category and no matter what they say or do, they will be judged first based on that category.
Same goes for heads of state. If he is a republican than no matter what he says the democarts will hate him. If he is a democrat all the republicans will hate his guts: "OMG Clinton got a blow-job in the office!!!" but they have no problem with Bush killing Iraqis for oil, like that's not immoral.
By now if you are still reading you are probably asking yourself, "Wtf? Who's side side is this guy on, he bashes Bush-haters but he also critisizes Bush...Huh?" If you ask yourself this question read the second paragraph again...
By the same argument there is no theft, lying and cheating, it is all inherited from the parents. So criminals should not be punishable, only their parents. If you commit whatever atrocity you are responsible for it. So the same country that proclaimed freedom, liberty, persuit of happiness should not, under any circumstance, tollerate enslavement -- no excuse if Europeans were doing, Aztecs were doing, Japanese were doing it -- it makes no difference. If you say "I put freedom first as my value" but then shackle someone and make them work on a plantation -- you are a hyporcrite, and offering excuses just make you look worse.
But the point is not that someone would be treated below what the animals are treated (which is probably a hyperbole) but that they even would be treated close to what animals are treated. In other words once their human dignity and freedom was taken way, there is no point to compare between "oh this slave was tortured every day, but this one only once a week", or "he is treated just like the horse, but he is treated worse than the horse." In other words it is the enslavement that is the horrible part, the treatement is a necessary consequence after that.
Well, I meant the game in a figurative sense. But, speaking of the stuff Americas are built on, it would be good if the kids in US schools would also learn about the "not so pleasant" part of the US history. For example, everyone is indoctrinated about how noble and brave the settlers were. They came because they were escaping unjust persecution in Europe because of their religious beliefs. That may be true for a large part, but at the same time, a lot of those people came here because they wanted to hide from the law. It included many criminals, prostitutes, outlaws and other characters that where happy to run away from authorities and their home countries where "happy" to get rid of them. Also, the crimes and the oppression against the native americans is downlplayed heavily. The teachers don't want to confuse "little Johny" or "little Suzy" with sad stories about their beloved motherland -- ignorance works much better.
I don't know what would be so interesting about that. People have done it and do it all the time. There is nothing interesting in attrocities, they are all horrible but also boring. The fact that people can treat each less than animals is not a surprise. It seems that along with human capacity for thought, kindness, compassion and love comes the capacity to commit attrocities. There are many Hitlers, Stalins and Maos out there, even among your neighbours and friends. We just don't notice them because they don't have the power to commit evil on a large scale. Even "little Billy", the neighbourhood kid that likes to torture cats for pleasure and fun could, potentially become a Hitler given the circumstances.
How else is everyone supposed to regard your saying that Stalin's killing of 10 to 50 million of people or Hitler's Holocaust and extermination of 6+ million of Jews is just "small potatoes". How can one even compare genocides and call some insignificant and others very important.
I am not critisizing just you, I am just ranting in general, I have heard other do it, and the school system does it too. For example, everyone in US schools is taught about the Holocaust and every child has to write an essay on it, but not much is said about Stalin's killings, not much is said about the African genocides, (not just slavery but even the recent cases such as Darfur), and many others. In other words there is this implicit judgement -- these peoples' deaths are more important to talk about than those peoples' deaths. There is something wrong with that I think.
After the enslavement ended, the enslaved Navajo moved away from that region, and treat it as a graveyard up to present day. Which means they claim it as theirs, even though they did not live there for the longest time and would not even visit it under normal circumstances. Interestingly their claim to the land was granted by the Native American Graves Protection and Repatriation Act (had to look this one up), much to the dismay of other tribes inhabiting that region.
Speaking of cannibalism and such... According to my friend, there was someone in the anthropology/linguistics at NMU that was working at desciphering the old stories of Navajo tribes. Allegedly those stories contain detailed descriptions of slavery, cruelty and oppression at the hands of the Aztecs. The one that stuck in my mind was the story of a certain "Skin Walker" -- a chief or some kind of shaman that would skin the slaves alive and wear their skin. Another story, which is more common, is that the heart would be ripped out and eaten. All these gruesome practices of the Aztecs were crucial because they created fear and dread among the ensalved people, which kept them obidient.
This stuff is fascinating because like every ingorant Joe out there I thought stuff (good and bad) started happening on the North American continent mostly after the Europeans settled. And such things as colonies, slavery and celestial observations would not have existed here before.
With a beast like this that fills up a whole room, anything else becomes a peripheral....
But still, for an open source project to even accomplish what Wine did in the last couple of years is pretty good. I got Cedega Transgaming and it works pretty well too.
It seems a hard fight lies in front of this brave nation. Fat viruses on one side, terrorist on the other. But we will prevail, Bush will lead us to victory. God Bless America!
Yeah, like I'am totally kewl you know... and stuff. Like I know 2 languages: English and JavaScripts. And I like Linux cause it is sooo much more k00l than windowz, you know!?
But let me guess, you stop the whole IP block, buy why hot the whole ISP, then another ISP and keep blocking ISPs, well why stop there, block the whole internet.
Oh, but you can protect the pages. How many? How about all of them?.
The point here is that if people are allowed to do whatever they want to an encyclopedia, it might end up being a very inaccurate source. I wouldn't reference it in a paper to be published, that's for sure.
Yes, but I have a script that changes my MAC address, which makes the ISP DHCP server issue me an new IP. I can get one every hour if I want...
I can make my IP change every very often by changing the MAC address and getting a new lease from my ISP's DHCP server.
I can make my IP change every hour, by changing the MAC address.
Kids should be learning both the applied and the abstract general concepts. So when learning about HTML, it would be good to know why are people using HTML, why not something else, what is HTML related to, how is it different than Java and stuff like that, while at the same time learning how to make pretty tables with nifty javascript event handlers that makes stuff blink and such.
Actally the so much touted review system of Wikipedia can be bypassed by an automatic updater. So if I want to say that E=mc^3 not E=mc^2 I could write a cron job that updates the Wiki page if it was reverted. The chances are when someone looks at the page, they will see my version not the correct one.
There are still many mechanical toys and gizmos to play with. Or how about teaching them about software? I used to love to write small little programs in basic that changed colors on the screen or simulated dice and such when I was 12. A kid can always have fun with the turtle graphics. The insides of TV sets are less interesting today but the insides of a computer tower could be fun to explore -- stick you finger in a 7000 RPM fan and other fun things...
But who decides who should die and who shouldn't
I bet there you don't enter into a store and almost everything, at all times is on sale. "WOW! 30% discount -- I gotta get this deal" All that and combined with strict deadlines ("Quick the sale ends tomorrow!") seems to work wonders for the American department stores.
This is not new and is an old marketing trick. The store I know that does this the most is Macy's. My brother worked for them and their pricing works something like this: there are always 3 prices for each item: the retail price, which is an artificially high price that no items will ever be sold at, then there is the actual price of the item that it is selling now at, then there is the sale price. The discount for the sale price is calculated from the inflated retail price. So if you go their store and see a sofa that supposedly used to cost $2000 and not after the magic 50% sale, it costs only $1000, don't reach for the wallet just yet, because no one has ever sold that sofa for $2000 dollars. You can probably buy it at another store for $800. And the sale is there only to make you feel like you are getting a deal.
It seems Intel and HP are like the macho guy who is lost and is obviously going the wrong way, but rather than admitting he made a mistake he keeps going further.