Slashdot Mirror
Obesity Contagious?
An anonymous reader writes "University of Wisconsin-Madison researchers have found that certain human viruses may cause obesity, and by extension make being severely overweight a contagious condition. 'It makes people feel more comfortable to think that obesity stems from lack of control,' the lead researcher says. 'It's a big mental leap to think you can catch obesity.' But other diseases once chalked up to environmental factors, like stomach ulcers, are now known to stem from infectious agents."
"Lois, everyone has their sanctuary. The Catholics have churches, fat people have Wisconsin, and I have the Pawtucket Brewery."
... or maybe they do but you're not supposed to consume them by the metric tonne? Having never tried said tomfoolery, I'm not sure how it works.
... remember, it's not that you're inactive or eat a lot. Thanks to technology, there are pills to cure obesity--3 AM TV told me so.
- Peter in Wasted Talent
Beer and cheese must not fall under the Atkins diet
Looks like those 'sconnies found an excuse
My work here is dung.
Now millions will have a valid excuse to say, "No fatties."
clear cut and easy to remember: "Burger King", "McDonalds", etc.
All the food that I eat seems to take weeks to travel through my intestines now, since my last infection by what was probably some rotavirus. I hope I didn't catch it from some of the rich gene-tech companies I am travelling by.
I'm still trying to figure out what people mean by 'social skills' here.
..For all the new Late night infomercials, telling us how being fat isn't our fault. Oh, a whole new generation of snake-oil is on the horizon
I'm not fat, I'm diseased.
Here's an interesting report from FP Magazine on obesity as a global epidemic. Interesting to note that obesity seems to occur independent of the financial factors that you would assume cause obesity. Report is a PDF download. tcd004
Funny how this virus is so widespread in the United States.
I'm sure it has nothing to do with the availability of junk food and the national automobile culture.
Get me a dozen fucking doughnuts, this virus is killing me.
McDonalds, Burger King, and 20 out of 24 hours behind a computer/console gaming has been VINDICATED!!!
I knew it all along - damn viruses. Probaby sent here by aliens too to "soften" us up before the attack
If I fully cook it, can I eat fat people without getting fat?
...it's called "intaking more calories than you output."
.this is not a sig
Sure, some people have higher appetites, or lower metabolisms, but a virus isn't going to manufacture mass out of the celestial aether. If you eat less than your body requires, you lose weight, and vice-versa.
m
Good thing I live in Los Angeles. There are only skinny people here!
This is coming from Wisconsin, right? Isn't that the fatty capital of the world?
I say the research is biased...
I live in Wisconsin and that virus must be all over the place judging from the amount of obesity here! Flamebait me if you will, but it's pretty bad here!
http://religiousfreaks.com/There are some staggering data in there regarding the extent to which humans mimic the behavior of similar others. For example, there are statistically significant increases in the number of teenage-couples killed in car accidents among those teenage-couples who recently heard about accidents where teenage couples were killed. The increase is not observed in teenage-couples who didn't hear about the recent accidents, and is not observed among singleton teenagers or older couples who have been exposed to the news. These results have been repeated with a wide range of demographic groups, on a wide range of phenomena, and have been found to be consistent and strong. Hmm, notice a rash of mine accidents recently? Yes, I'm sure it's media focus-bias to some extent...
I really urge you to check that book out if you're interested in the instinct-level mental processes that control us without our being aware of them, or if you want to be..ah...evil?
Despite my attempts to keep this comment civil, I'm sure some will take offense...
Calories in - Calories out = Surplus / Deficit
(What you eat - what you burn = net change)
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Does anybody have pointers to numbers for the other two viruses?
Viruses aren't the only medical condition that can cause obesity, by the way. Various hormonal problems (thyroid comes to mind) can cause obesity as well. Even so, I'm expecting that they'll still find tha more than half of North American obesity is not environment related (other than an environment with an abundance of food).
Sometimes boldness is in fashion. Sometimes only the brave will be bold.
There may be instances where a virus causes obesity, but I see this as becoming a scapegoat for people letting themselves go if it becomes widely accepted. The cure? EAT LESS AND/OR MOVE MORE!
http://crimespree.ca/ - photography, mountain biking
Dennis Leary did a bit on the idea of an obesity virus quite some time ago. I can't remember if its on Lock and Load or No Cure for cancer. There may be some accuracy to the research I suppose, but I am inclined to take the view that this really sounds like a cheap excuse. *gobble gobble gobble* I can't help it. I am feeding the virus! *gobble* *gobble* *gobble*
The only change I can believe in is what I find in my couch cushions.
Considering how many parties are "catered by Costco," I can see how habits of what one consumes is transferred to another. Perhaps it's the convenience of not having to cook, but the food we consume these days has lower nutritional content (or lower percentage compared to higher fat and carbs) than food of yesterday.
Sure, but that's guaranteed to piss off your girlfriend / wife / significant other...
University of Wisconsin-Madison researchers have found that certain human viruses may cause stupidity, and by extension make being severely idiotic a contagious condition. 'It makes people feel more comfortable to think that stupidity stems from lack of control,' the lead researcher says. 'It's a big mental leap to think you can catch stupidity.' But other diseases once chalked up to environmental factors, like bad breath, are now known to stem from infectious agents.
And I suppose that bicycling to work is now a controlled drug requiring FDA approval since it's so potent at curing obesity?
Face it. Fat people are fat because of math: calories in >> calories consumed + calories expelled.
You are checking your backups, aren't you?
People really need to stop living in denial of their weight problems, and do something about it. Blame your backhair on genetics. Blame your obesity on the fact that you eat fast food almost every meal of the week, and take the elevator to get back to your office's floor.
I do have sympathy though. Working in an office for 8 hours or more a day is most certainly not conducive to weight lose, especially considering the fact that most of humanities existance was spent hunting and gathering, constantly burning calories, and barely keeping enough to grow and maintain muscle.
Contagious fatness? There has to be a Fat Bastard joke in here somewhere...
But otherwise, it sure seems convenient to start blaming genetics and other uncontrollable factors for your problems, doesn't it?
Unless, of course, you end up as a healthy, intelligent person. Then, it's all your doing.
Maybe the only thing that's contagious is a fear of responsibility, a major problem when you consider all the laws made specifically for people who don't watch out for themselves. McDonalds' coffee IS hot, and a heavy diet of fast food IS NOT the best for you!
First convince them that their problems are all because of some virus, then start selling them the antiviral 'cures' and 'fat virus causing - preventative' medicine.
Oh, man, there are some very creative people in this world and quite a few of them are working for major pharmaceuticals.
You can't handle the truth.
There are, as with all things, multiple factors:
;).
1. Genetics
2. Environment
3. Disease
Someone who is prone to ulcers (genetics) and works as a stock trader on the floor of Wall Street and doesn't eat well/doesn't exercise (environment) and catches the right germ (disease) is more likely to come down with an ulcer than the sheep herder in Wyoming who's only worry is someone using the word "brokeback" to them.
The same thing could be here. I know people who have struggled with their weight - they exercise, they try to eat well, and yet the pounds don't come off. Perhaps, like ulcers, there can be a simple protein check before dieting and exercise of "OK - looks like you have the virus. Let's clear that up while we change your eating and exercise habits", which will give many people hope before they have to resort to surgery.
Hopefully it won't just be an excuse for the lazy, like the Wall Street trader who'd rather take a pill for the ulcer rather than taking time out to go relax with their family and loved ones.
Now, with that said, I'm heading out and getting a whopper
52 Weeks, 52 Religions with John Hummel
"He didn't give you gay, did he?" - Homer
Sure, diseases, medications and "bad genes" can dictate that a person gains weight more readily than others, but they still need to consume more calories than they burn in order to gain weight. Period. It still means a lack of control. If you're becoming fat, you're eating more than necessary to stay alive. It's just a matter of self-control to correct it.
While some external influence (viral) might worsen matters by wretchedly increasing fat uptake at the cellular level in some people, I don't think it's any mystery why most of us reading this right now have a couple of pounds we'd like to get rid of.
Sure, wash your hands and reduce your random virus exposure. But get up and move around a little without the bag of chips. That's what I say. Also, will someone come and help me out of this chair?
Don't disappoint your bird dog. Go to the range.
Yes, let's remove personal responsibility yet again. It's not because I eat three triple-cheeseburgers a day, it's genetics. It's not because I eat three meals daily at McDonalds, it's a virus.
There's only one cause for obesity: personal irresponsibility. Every other "cause" is a simple variant on that single cause. If you don't want to be a giant lard pile, there's a simple exercise that you can do that's guarenteed to cause weight loss: WALKING!
America's "obesity epedemic" is caused soley because Americans as a whole refuse to take personal responsibility. People are sueing breakfast cereal makers for making them fat!
It's not your genetics. It's not a virus. It's not McDonalds. It's not your breakfast cereal.
It's you.
Get off your ass, and start walking daily. You'll be amazed at the results. And best of all, walking doesn't require any expensive equipment!
The cure to obesity is to eat and live healthier, but it is clear that lifestyle is not the only cause. Many overweight people eat less and exercise more than other people with more ideal weights.
English is easier said than done.
Is it just me, or are people growing less and less willing to take responsibility for their situations in life? "It's not fair, I've got The Fat (Fattitis? Human Fat Virus?)" People like to blame anyone else for their (lack of) eduction, their inability to drive, their terrible job, their ugly spouce (n/a for /.ers), their babysitter (TV) not censoring their kids enough.. Lets see, what else...
Wer mit Ungeheuern kämpft, mag zusehn, dass er nicht dabei zum Ungeheuer wird. --Nietzsche
I hear there is also a virus, called HIV, that causes promiscuity.
from Lazy Boy TV on the "Obesity Epidemic" (Click on the TV to find the video reference) Grandpa, how did you ever survive? Well Johnny, it was terrible, there was cheese cake and fried chicken everywhere!
The only change I can believe in is what I find in my couch cushions.
Or are they the carriers?
Why is a double cheeseburger cheaper than a single cheeseburger? Why is a quarter pounder with cheese, large fries and a large coke cheaper than a quarter pounder with cheese, small fries and a small coke?
Why is a small coke now twice as big as a large coke used to be, not just at McDonald's but anywhere?
People are fatter than they ever were, but I don't think these virii are the cause, or obesity wouldn't be so contagious (cough).
Sure, virii may be the cause of some obesity, but they would have been the cause of someobesity throughout history, not just now.
(MRC="shrinks")
Obeasity can be a virus but I hear no mention of a bug or germ that can turn anyone into a buffed hardbody, and no rigomortis after all the lard chokes your heart does not count as a hardbody.
Do not try to read the dupe, thats impossible. Instead, only try to realize the truth
What truth?
There is no dupe
It makes people feel more comfortable to think that obesity stems from lack of control
Of course it does. I'm not sure how conclusive this research is, but people will go to all ends to shift responsibility from themselves. I will go out on a limb and say, even considering this research, that the largest cause obesity is still poor diet and a lack of excercise.
There is no longer anything that can be done with computers that is nontrivial and clearly legal. -- Paul Phillips
...at least, not in the traditional sense of "contagious".
Just because something is caused by a virus doesn't mean that there isn't a pre-existing genetic defect that's triggered by the virus. If it were this simple, understanding a number of genetic problems would be a lot simpler. Instead, there's no "single source" of the problem.
Also many viruses aren't contagious in the "sneeze, cough, make you sick" sense of contagious. Viruses are a lot more common than people thing. Perfectly normal cells contain viruses and parasites, not harming you but are "along for the ride". Some bacteria are actually helpful and required for the body to function normally.
This isn't as simple as "I sneeze on you and get you fat".
Channel 4 in the UK did a programme about this theory about a year ago, and if memory serves they did the testing on avian virii. Interesting programme and a neat theory, but I'm sure that the insurance companies are going to hate it.
People drive to work, sit all day, eat high calorie meals, go home drink and eat more high calorie meals.
Then they get on the internet or play games or watch TV & movies, then go to bed.
REPEAT.
Food is cheap, bad food is cheaper. Its easy to get into a rut where you inevetably gain weight, it is just part of our work / tv culture.
He who knows best knows how little he knows. - Thomas Jefferson
Yes, there is. I'm glad you mentioned it. I happened to want to post a link to a book. I happen to be an affiliate. When I put the two together, it seemed to make sense to put the affiliate link in. I now realize that this may not be socially acceptable here, and I apologize for breaking the norm if that's the case. I thought that since no one would be hurt (except Amazon), and since I was making the post and link on the basis of preferences entirely unrelated to my Amazon affiliation, that it would be okay.
Whigham said more research is needed to find out if Ad-37 causes obesity in humans. One study was inconclusive, because only a handful of people showed evidence of infection with Ad-37, not enough people to draw any conclusions, she said.
There is still much to learn about how these viruses work, Whigham said. "There are people and animals that get infected and don't get fat. We don't know why," she said. Among the possibilities: the virus hasn't been in the body long enough to produce the additional fat; or the virus creates a tendency to obesity that must be triggered by overeating, she said.
So the virus itself may produce excess fat? SO, if infected, perhaps certain people need to exercise a little bit more and eat a little bit less than those without the virus that are trying to lose weight. So, you get a vaccine against the virus. You can still gain excess weight! You just don't have the virus adding the extra 5% to your body...
I'm fat. Maybe it's a virus. Or maybe I gotta stop eating 3 burgers and a large fry for lunch everyday. Or maybe it's all the free Cola we get here at work...let's see 240 calories per 20 oz bottle...ahh yes, good stuff.
Now can nailing fat girls can give you a venerial disease, amd also make you fat? I gotta stop drinking.
Judges and senates have been bought for gold; Esteem and love were never to be sold.
Instead of blaming McDonald's we can blame a disease for Fat Americans? That won't fly. There's no money for the lawyers to get at if a disease is the blame. Unless something causes the disease. Wait a minute! Let's blame McDonald's for spreading the disease that makes Fat Americans and sue McDonald's -- again. My faith in the American economy has been restored.
A virus can't create fat. Stored excess calories from food creates fat. What happens here is that some people's bodies discard excess calories to maintain a certain weight while others store more of the excess food energy as fat. People in the latter category are susceptible to obesity. They have to be more careful about diet and exercise than people whose bodies can maintain a healthy weight when they overeat, and it's very easy to overeat in the U.S. Food is cheap compared to other expenses like housing and healthcare. Portions in restaurants are huge.
1. Eat more.
2. Feel lazy.
3. Goof off at work.
4. Get fired.
5. Run out of money to get stuff to eat.
6. Tap into stored adipose tissue to meet daily energy requirements
7. !!!
8. Lower body weight.
An Indian-American Hindu committed to non-violent thought/speech/action alarmed by the global explosion of radical Islam
It makes people feel more comfortable to think that obesity stems from lack of control
Oh really? I mean, REALLY?!?!? Which people I wonder? As a person who could afford to lose some weight I would be seriously tempted to be able to blame my weight on factors beyond my control. "It's not me honey, it's the virus. Now pass the dang doughnuts before my virus makes me hurt someone." Except, I know that's not true.
It leaves me wondering how long it will be until we prove that no one is responsible for anything.
Sitting in front of your 'puter talking about "us the community" and apostilating about how source code equals freedom will make any slashdork obese and laughed at
I just find that the chance any particular obese person has for being fat because of a virus extremely low. People are always looking for a scapegoat, so when a study like this comes out, they can point to it as the cause while eating a triple cheeseburger (with supersize fries/drink) in the other hand.
I wish the article came with a excerpt that, even if true, that this isn't likely the cause of obesity in most people and that an imbalance of calories in vs calories out is the most likely culprit.
The fact remains obesity and diabetes II rates have been increasing fast since the mid '70s, since the introduction of High Fructose Corn Syrup (as a sweetener, cheaper than sugar, much higher glycemic index). I also think hydogenate/partially hydrogenated oils contributed to this, introduced earlier (margarine). I suggest avoiding both substances for a variety of health reasons. (I only wish whole grains were easier to obtain in supermarkets....)
In any case, the virus's discussed are old - they can't the cause for the relatively recent hike in obesity rates.
...I caught it from my potato chips.
The two most common causes of obesity are compulsive overeating (which is an actual addition and can often only be effectively treated as such), and gratuitous overeating (where the person is just a slob). The latter is rarer than you might think, as being a slob is not much of a survival trait. Addictions, however, are often derived from survival traits. Severely deranged ones, but survival traits nonetheless.
Now, addictive behaviours can appear to be contageous, as extreme dysfunctions tend to create extreme stress in others, which can in turn cause those others to become dysfunctional themselves. (We're talking fairly extreme cases, here.) As such, any research that theorises pathogens must first eliminate acutely dysfunctional groups. Otherwise, you're going to end up chasing shadows.
Eliminating acutely dysfunctional researchers who are paid by corporate sponsors to achieve pre-defined results would also be a good idea, but that would eliminate 95% of all researchers, which could cause problems down the road.
It's a small world and it smells funny; I'd buy another if it wasn't for the money; Take back what I paid (SoM)
Any new angle on the issue is helpful. If there's a virus hindering people in their efforts to lose weight, then by all means identify and fight it.
org.slashdot.post.SignatureNotFoundException: ewg
Yes, we will have hordes of overweight people going "See, told you so! I'm sick!"
What they will conveniently forget is convervation of energy: The only way someone can gain weight is by eating too much, compared to how much energy their bodies spend on moving and keeping you alive. End of discussion.
No matter which disease one may have, you will not catch 25 pounds from taking a stroll through the mall or, say, through breathing thin air. If a disease lowers the energy requirements of the body, the cure is to eat proportionally less.
TFA isn't clear on this, but I wonder precisely what is suggested being the cause of obesity in 'infected' individuals. Are they saying people simply become unable to control the urge to eat uncontrolled amounts of unhealthy foods?
So how do you catch 'soccer moms', no bikes as kids, McD dinners and no exercise in school?
Also strange is the fact that ulcers were commonplace all over the world, due to often being an infectious disease. Yet I wonder why the Europeans haven't 'caught' obesity on the US level yet? It is not like we haven't been mingling with them for, say, a few hundred years.
Interesting article and subject... -HOWEVER-
;)
I'm going to have to state the obvious, and that in Wisconsin, people eat lots of bratwurst, cheese, german-influenced 'comfort foods', fast food, and drink lots of beer. Further more it's f*cking 25F out and snowing right now. Not exactly bicycle/swim/rollerblading/physical activity weather.
I've been around most of the U.S., and I see more obese people here in WI (where I live now) than anywhere else. Try as I might to escape all the temptations about me, I've gained about 50 extra pounds myself. Everywhere you turn there's stuff to eat that you really shouldn't but oh damn does it taste so gooood.
I can go to to just about anywhere- stores, malls, movie theatres, exercise gyms, look around, and I'm *still* the 'thinnest' person around.
So yeah, I'd like to blame it on a virus or something too
do() || do_not();
People don't get sick from being obese, they get obese because they're sick. Can you call off work for being fat?
... me to get up off my @$$ and clean up the place. "Obesity is contagious," I say, pointing to this article on /. And then she slaps me. And then I wake up and realize, hey wait, I don't have a girlfriend after all! And then I go back to sleep.
CAUGHT the fat?
Less Talk. More Stab.
Look, the cause of obesity is really very simple: the human body (and its ancestors) evolved in environments in which food was scarce, and during that time mechanisms came into being which helped to deal with that scarcity. As a result, it has built-in mechanisms to ensure that there will be sufficient energy store for the body to use for all but the most drastic of food shortages. These mechanisms include the fat store, the tendency for fat to accumulate much more easily than it's used, and an appetite control mechanism that encourages overeating (since who knows when the next meal will become available?).
Now take the human body and put it into an environment where all the food one could ever want is easily available for the taking (all it requires is a small amount of money). What do you expect will happen?
Well, duh...the body will behave as it always has: under the assumption that while food might be plentiful now, it's not likely to be plentiful for long, so better stock up now while it can.
And thus, obesity.
And the reason obesity is so difficult to deal with, and why sustained weight loss has such a lousy track record (95%+ failure rate), is simple: to fight obesity, you have to fight your own body's instinctive drive to "save up for a rainy day".
Use 'slashdot stuff' in the subject line in any email you send me if you want to get past the spam filter.
Everyone knows that obesity is infectious. It's actually an STD! Men are carriers and women become infected. While there are various treatments which are legal, once infected, it usually takes some 10-12 months for women to fully recover from the effects of the disease. Unfortunitally, most women which are afflicted with this wind up some type of horrible growth that cohabitates and grows at cancerous rates, for some 18-25 years.
It seems the poor and uneducated are most often afflicted. Regardless of your social standing, please do not assume that you are safe! Most doctors agree that the use of a condom may prevent your girlfriend or wife from contracting this horrible, disfiguring, disease.
Let me guess. The virus spreads through biting.
-matthew
"THERE IS NO JUSTICE, THERE IS ONLY ME." -Death
Free McAfee antivirus included in any McDonalds. I am sure Burger King will offer Symantec.
...in Quarter Pounders, extra-cheese pizzas, and mozzarella fries.
Just to be safe I am going to swear off ALL of those viruses (ad-*).
Just to be safe.
"More beer and donuts please, and make sure its steril!"
I think you underestimate just how much I just dont care.
If you read just the blurb posted here, you'll see that the researchers say "it is easier to think of obesity as having something to do with willpower"[paraphrasing.] Most of the comments on this story seem to reflect this, and are just what the researchers predicted you'd say.
The point is the idea that obesity might not be something that you control really is frightening to us.
I accept the "troll of year" award. I like to thank American culture for this one. Let the moderation begin!!!
You don't have to be smart to use a Mac, you just have to be smart enough to buy one
Obesity is in fact contagious. The carriers have names like Wendy and McDonald.
What is to say that some viruses might also be affecting this?
If some treatment can just help a person who has struggled against weight their whole life have a slightly easier struggle without harming their body in a more severe way then more power to them.
I'm a fiscal conservative, it's a pity we don't have a political party anymore
Nobody gets fat
in a vacuum! Oh, except
for Ron Jeremy.
Wow, how brilliant! A wonderful generalization based on research and a very scientific understanding of obesity. Thank you for advancing our progress.
And let me guess, all thin people starve themselves. And bald people, they all shave their heads.
NOT.
I think that people are just looking for somebody/something to blame for America's obesity problem. People (in general) are worried about being politically correct, and not hurting somebody's feelings by telling them that they are overweight. Now mostly, I think that it is the parent's responsibility to teach their kids the values of living a healthy life. It is also benificial to a child's development to have them live a healthy life, young children and teenagers can be cruel to obese children, and kids often don't know what to do about it. Suing kellogs and other companies because they market using children's television characters is NOT the cause of fat kids, it is the parents not being willing/able to tell their kids no. Americans need to be accountable for their growning problem, and stop creating reasons for obesity.
I'm sorry, I can't date you. It's not your behemoth size, per se, which repels mel; it is its transmissible nature. Let me persue my quest for that 36-24-36, whose IQ>140, for I want an autistic child; go Renaissance.
But do they get enough sleep? Eating well and workout out are only part of the problem.
----
Go canucks, habs, and sens!
There's also emotional factors: A LOT of people eat because of stress, sadness, etc... I've heard a few times from people that they gained weight when they got "this stressful job." And sure, there's a genetic component. But unfortunately, I have NEVER heard a person say, "Yeah, I've gained weight since getting this stressful job. I've started exercising less, eating less healthily, and I'm just getting older: it's a bunch of things contributing to my weight gain." Noooo, it's always boiled down to one thing, usually something that they would have no control over so that they don't have to take responsibility. Even if you're cursed with horrible genes and you gain weight by breathing (like me), you learn to deal with it. Ok, Me, myself, and I have to make some lifestyle changes to compensate for the inevetable changes in life and my own challenges.
If someone tells me that they're gaining weight and it's hard. I empathize. If they just say, "Oh it's my genes - pass the Twinkies." I'll just shake my head and turn a deaf ear to their complaints about this society being prejudiced against fat people.
Um, you go into a gym, look who is in there, i would bet 80% of the people on the treadmill are overweight, and probably 90% of the people in freeweight areas would look in-shape. Its not rocket surgery, its pretty simple stuff, eat right, stay active, most of the "contributing" factors occur whenever you neglect the two main weight loss keys for long enough, and then you're really screwed.
...swimmng, biking, I guess the virus just can't catch up with you. Or maybe the increased oxygen levels kill it, or something in all those vegatables. Oh, wait.. this is slashdot... I better stop before someone takes this comment seriously.
That's the kind of crap that usually shows up in rubbish magazines/websites to booster self confidence on fat-asses...
Of all shooting killings in a year, how many are caused by a "manufacturing defect"?
I thought so
Obesity might be contagious if you're a cannibal.. imagine one walking around in Florida, with a knife and a fork in their pocket. A single morbidly obese person could feed you for a year. Mind you, taking out the giblets could be messy.
You don't seem very evil...
Are you trying make me be compliant by being nice? Hell, I might even grow to like you.
I just finished this book and have been influencing others to check it out. Definitely has the potential to give the diligent reader an advantage in life.
The University of Wisconsin-Madison researcher who did the study is named Professor Creosote.
Are you...Are you some kind of genius?
No, ma'am, I'm just a regular Slashdot reader.
Comment removed based on user account deletion
I hear that it's spread by eating food with "fat" in it.
Dance Dance Revolution.
Huh? Since when?
If anything, it makes people more comfortable to think obsesity is NOT about self-control, but instead it's bad genes, some defect in their metabolism, they're "big boned" , and now there's a virus to blame.
Like others have posted, it's simple, if calories burned < calories taken in then you put on weight, duh. Even if your metabolism is slower than most people -- then guess what, you need to eat less than most people. Life didn't give us all the metabolism of a humming bird, so deal with it. I put on weight after my 20s because I starting sitting around more, exercising a bit less, and probably eating out more. Guess what, that's my fault, period.
People want to eat like crap, and piles of it to boot, sit on their duffs all week, and then expect look like some guy/girl from a Calvin Klein ad? Please...
Does the "it's not my fault" ever friggin' end?
'The unexamined life is not worth living' - Socrates
Doesnt this just encourage us to stay away from fat people? If word gets out of the geek community, then people would stay away from fat people because they dont want to get fat, making fat people feel lonely, depressed, and suicidal.
:-s
this would increase the amount of discrimination cases against obese people dramatically
Viable Slashdot alternatives: https://pipedot.org/ and http://soylentnews.org/
Looks like we need to start putting tapeworms back into everything we eat. That'll fix this problem real good...
This guy's the limit!
Judging from the folks at local SIGs and User Groups, it may well be a computer virus.
</cheap_shot>
Mod me as a troll if you like but I must say this: Perhaps, the people should stop looking for excuses for their weight problems and just look in the mirror. What, looking fatty(er) today? There is no excuse if you're not doing anything about it. As many "studies" there are they cannot solve the obesity problem.
The cure to being stupid is to study, but it is clear that lifestyle is not the only cause. Many stupid people studied more and goofed off less than other people who got straight A's in school.
Why doesn't anybody talk about that?
Ahhhh .. so _that's_ what the Bene Gesserit Reverend Mother used to turn the Baron into such a large fellow!
RFC2119
Is this to say that diet and exercise aren't important? Don't be silly. Of course they are still significant factors. Anyone who says otherwise is lying to you. A friend of mine managed to loose over 100 pounds by coming to realization that she was living an unhealthy lifestyle, then changing her lifestyle.
My point is that the viral explantion may provide additional factors contributing to obesity, especially in cases where diet and excercise levels seem otherwise reasonable.
At this point, there is too little data to tell how important this result is. In TFA they say that there was only an increase in fat, not an increase in weight, but that was in chickens, who are not people.
I say, let us just think this is an interesting result and support more research into this possibility.
This is the funniest thread I've ever seen on /., and I've been around for awhile. Oh, my BMI is 20.8.
Graham
Linux - Fast Pane Relief
..to go into it right now, but anyone get the feeling that science research and reporting are both massive systems that are essentially broken?
only at buffets.
It seems a hard fight lies in front of this brave nation. Fat viruses on one side, terrorist on the other. But we will prevail, Bush will lead us to victory. God Bless America!
Also, we used to run after our food and throw spears at it before we could eat. Or even walk a long ways to find enough berries to nibble on. Now, we just hop in our cars and drive to the grocery store. Gobs of food, AND little or no physical exertion to get it. That's not what our bodies were designed for.
Slow down, cowboy! It has been 4 hours since you last posted. You must wait another few hours.
Despite what they say, I can quite believe that being fat is contagious. I've always thought it was in large part genetics, like allergic reactions and such, but not a disease that you could spread.
...eventually you will get a haircut.
Similarly, if you hang around a bunch of fat people, eventually you will get fat. You'll go out to eat with them and eat the same kinds of things. You'll not exercise the same way that they don't exercise. You'll gain weight too. That might count as "contagious", but it doesn't mean it's caused by a virus.
My other first post is car post.
... "Don't have an accident."
In the squishy gray folds of your brain "Don't have an accident" is truncated to "have an accident."
I was horrified when the Department of Transportation started putting up roadsigns saying, "Hit a worker, pay a fine" on the interstates.
Yeah, people need to have THAT flashed into their subconcious as they're flying down the roadway...
There's another part of this that someone mentioned recently to me. Not only are our food sources far more secure than they were one to ten thousand years ago, we have seriously changed the composition of our foods in the last 50-ish years.
These days, there are a *lot* more refined sugars and simple carbohydrates. The body is very good at converting these to fat. It's almost safe to say that as a society, we are all ingesting foods that should make us fat. It might be interesting to ask why so many people *aren't* becoming obese.
:)
A goal is a dream with a deadline
If people would just get more exercise - moderate exercise, equal to taking the stairs instead of the elevator (if less than 8 floors) whenever possible, they'd lose a lot more weight.
Diets, to be frank, don't really work, statistically. They just reset your body clock to try to regain the fat and you're grumpy. Drinking more water, getting more exercise - and most important, getting enough sleep - will do more to help you lose weight (or change it into more pleasing more compact muscle) than anything else.
-- Tigger warning: This post may contain tiggers! --
They're fattening up their cattle a.k.a. us!
I hear "Armageddon" means "Great Feast" in Gray.
Those skinny little bastards must be hungry! Look at 'em!
</conspiracy theory>
DEAD DEAD DEAD DELETE ME
Why it isn't a virus:
It seems necessary to include social manerisms and the human condition. In particular the human need for conformity and inclusion - monkey see monkey do. I am more likely to be obese if I am in a group of obese people because my habits will reflect those of the social group. If I eat a triple burger biggie sized and a coke every day with my work buddies we will most likely all have distended abdomens and extra fatty tissue. This arises from the need for inclusion and the desire not to be alone.
Then we need to go one step further: Obesity stems from overeating. A consequence of obesity is a weakened immune system and the tendancy to be sick more often - more cells means more places for viruses and bacteria to hide, as well as more cells for the body to defend. Good luck identifying a virus that is responsible.
It also seems unlikely that obesity is a result of infection. Consider the known solutions for obesity: stomach bypass, staying away from processed foods, exercise, etc. This seems like the beginning a ploy for a pharmaceutical company to make money by selling unnecessary pills to lazy americans.
Stay away from manufactured sugars (sucrose, corn starch) and refined wheat (white and brown) and people should see an increase in energy and a decrease in waist size. Remember you eat to live, not live to eat.
Furthermore, the goverment should ban the sales of these known apetite increasing foods - unnecessary addictive additives that cause obesity. Sure there would be less tax revenue short term, but the longetivity of the population will increase and result in increased tax revenues, health care savings etc.
PLEASE CLARIFY. Is it "Ninnie" or "Ninnle"? I know what a "ninnie" is, namely you. But what in the fucking goddamned hell is a "ninnle"? Oh. And one more thing. This ain't no GODDAMNED WEENIE roast!!!
After learning about other diseases that were supposedly behavioral/environmental being actually caused by viruses or bacteria (or somewhere inbetween, like protobacter -- ulcers, IBD, cervical cancer, etc...) I'm not surprised at all. I believe we'll eventually find most digestive disorders are caused by unwanted bugs.
The fact is, we have as many bacteria cells in our guts as we have "human" cells in our entire body. It's no wonder we don't understand most of it yet.
And it's no wonder that the balance of power in our gut could affect our weight. Even without this research, it was clear that some of the bacteria in our guts helped us digest food and some didn't (sometimes causing gas, IBD-like symptoms, etc..). If we populate with more of the friendly pro-digestive ones, we would naturally get more nutrition out of our food and tend to gain weight. Whether a virus can cause us to grow fat cells directly, I can only speculate.
On a personal level, I just went through an antibiotic "reboot" of my gut bacteria to try to cure some longstanding issues and the result was a very rapid weight gain of 20-30 pounds, which in my case was a net positive, plus I just feel much better.
As others have said here, I think ultimately this will be just like the gas crunch, spyware, and other bottlenecks we seem to squeeze ourselves into.
:(
...
As a (very bad, busy, and yeah.. lazy) bodybuilder, I do my best to avoid the marketing hype in the grocery store when shopping, but I believe that just like we need to run spyware removal tools, like we go out of our way to save a little gas, etc. - this is not something that will go away.
Anyone as a kid remember doing things like bragging about that 24 pack of mountain dew you just drank, taking 3-4 wonderfully white pieces of bread, squishing them together, and just sinking your teeth into that white goodness? High Fructose Syrup and everything being "Enriched" (test your "wheat bread" - is the first ingredient whole wheat or enriched wheat [read: white] bread?) is going to cause this to be just another thing we have to deal with.
There is no fountain of youth, and every new invention is a potential pandora's box waiting to happen, just seems we're getting our come-up-ens now. All of the marketing hype says "NO FAT!" or "REDUCED FAT!" but what they don't say is "WE JUST UPPED THE SUGARS, THAT'S ALL". What about the great chocolate getting marketed now as sugar-free when in fact there's a good possibility it'll metabolize in your body just like sugar and be transported as such?
The nice thing is, if this proves to be true, it should toss some accountability to those that normally want nothing of the sort.
Old Convo:
Me: So, puttin on a little for the winter?
Fatty Fatty McFatty: Oh no, I'm genetically obese, nothing I can do - I even cut down to half a snickers every 4 hours and NOTHING.
New Convo:
Me: So, puttin on a little for the winter?
Fatty Fatty McFatty: Oh no, I caught the fat. This dude was eating an OMFGWTFHAXBBQ sandwich, coughed, and sure enough, I got infected with the fat
Me: Ouch, I guess you'll have to come up with a fat management plan then, eh?
Fatty Fatty McFatty: Oh shit, I actually have to DO something about this now?
Point of the story is, that no matter if the fat came with ya, ya caught it, or you just don't diet healthy, folks should hopefully start to allow accountability into their lives. If you were BORN with AIDS, nothing you can do, just hope for a cure. If you CAUGHT AIDS, you're probably more likely to want to fix it, as you actually remember life before-hand. Sometimes, the idea that God DIDN'T make you that way (the AI for his ID extension hasn't been patched for FF 1.5 yet), allows reason to kick in, hopefully.
Folks have got to learn more about their bodies nowadays or face the consequences. Hopefully this helps some of those that are too lazy to help themselves. If not, always a good time to get into the healthcare field, lol.
Less Talk. More Stab.
It's called the swine flu! (sorry!)
it is an extremely EMOTIONAL issue. most people don't want any advice on the subject - be they 100 lbs or 700 lbs.
;-)
i rave about the ultimate moderate diet (a skinny guy raving about a diet, think about it for a moment). it is called the zone diet. it gets lumped in with high protein diets like atkins, but it is far from it.
pbs did a study on diets and the lady on the zone diet lost the most (to be honest, she had a little more to lose, too).
http://www.pbs.org/saf/1401/features/robin.htm
a woman who just lost 45 lbs in 6 months was asked what she liked about the diet. her first thoughts might astound you...
"What I really like is how good you feel when you are "in the Zone". You are rarely hungry, and you just feel really, really good - it has a tremendous impact on your mood - unlike other diets I've been on."
a diet that allows you to lose 9 lbs a month and makes you feel great? yes, it is true.
i've been on a semi-zone for quite some time. i feel like like crap when i'm off it and i feel like a million bucks when i'm on it. i could even do a lot better by eating less sweets and more veggies - so i'm not even close to a perfect zone eater.
i'm over 20 years out of high school and i weigh 5 more lbs than i did in high school and, frankly, i have absolutely no concern about gaining weight b/c i know how to lose it and feel great at the same time.
i have nothing to gain by posting this information other than to pass on some information that has helped me tremendously - and will likely be ignored as you munch on your snickers bar and pop tarts.
i did my part, though. for those interested, there is lots of info on the web.
i helped a coworker get into the zone. i asked her how things went. she said she was disappointed she only lost 3 lbs (probably aout 1/2 water weight). i asked if she felt better and she said yes. i asked if she was hungry and she said no. i asked if she had increased energy and she said yes.
so, here is a diet that cause her to lose 3 lbs in a week, increased her energy and feeling of well being and didn't leave her hungry all the time... and she was "disappointed."
emotions all too often promote anti-intellectualism.
as always - be sure to consult a physician before making any changes to your diet.
I hate crap like this because it gives Americans an excuse to be obese. In general, people who are obese in this country have had a tendency to blame it on genes. Now they have something else to blame it on.
The fact is, obesity is the result of an eating disorder. I don't care what virus you have, if you're consuming fewer calories than you're expending, you'll lose weight. It's that simple.
I moved back to my birth state of Arkansas recently and the obesity problem here is just stunning to me. You'll go into a grocery store and you see all these incredibly obese people riding carts around the store and you just want to scream, "Get out of the damn cart and walk."
Obesity is, largely, a disease in this country. It might be spreading, but only as the popularity of fast food spreads. If other countries start eating fast food in the volume that people do in this country, then they will have the same problem. There's not a doubt in my mind.
In many other countries, for example, McDonalds doesn't do super sizing. Why? Because people in other countries seem to realize that a super-sized meal is FAR too much food for one person.
Coca Cola used to come in little 6oz bottles. When was the last time you saw someone only drink 6oz of coke?
I eat fairly large portions myself, but I find weight maintenance pretty simple these days: I eat well rounded meals that I fix myself. I rarely eat fast food.
The U.S. Army has a program for overweight recruits. There is a very strict diet and excercise program. They're very careful to keep people from losing weight too quickly. I have NEVER heard of anyone who couldn't lose weight through this program, nor has anyone ever starved to death on it. That to me, is proof enough, that weight can be controlled by excercise and diet.
The problem is, most people who "diet" do it as a temporary thing, even though they've heard, over and over again, that "dieting" in that fashion doesn't fix anything permanently. You have to change the way you eat and keep it changed.
What is not publically known at this time is that the fast-food industry has been aware of the relationship between the virus and the food. They intentionally infect every animal served with the virus to encourage Americans to eat more. It's a conspiracy.
What those who want activist courts fear is rule by the people.
Laugh, Paxil and caffeine is as bad or worse than alcohol.
Yes I believe it is contagious. The pathogen? The collaberation of a wireless phone, Visa, local pizza delivery phone number and a nice MMORPG or TV show. Subjects may succumb to illness within one level advancement. Effects noticable within two weeks. Side-effects include pizza box pile-up, loss of significant other, loss of time dedicated to talking through the mouth, and acute grinding syndrome. There is no cure.
This research cannot possibly be correct. Why? Because, as others have pointed out, the only thing that can "cause obesity" is consuming more calories than you use. Period. End of story. (Unless somebody comes up with a way to absorb calories without actually eating them.)
So while there may be a virus that changes an individuals metabolic rate, or perhaps gives them intense and constant urges to eat, it is still the act of eating that results in getting fat.
Certainly I can understand why people who have this virus (if it's true) might gain weight more easily than those without it, but THEY CAN CONTROL THIS.
Over the past few years I have been experimenting with lowering my metabolic rate as much as possible. I used to eat upwards of 3000 calories a day, easily. I'd eat a large lunch and then, usually around 9pm, I'd eat a large dinner. The result? 260 Lbs. No so good, despite my height of 6'4".
I started a caloric restriction diet, which was absolutely brutal for the first two months. I ate 1 meal a day. No exceptions. I tried to keep this mean as close to 1000 calories as possible, but aside from that the content of the meal didn't matter. The result? I now weigh 190 Lbs. I would like to get that to about 180, but it seems that 190 is the weight I can most easily maintain while eating about 1000 to 1200 calories a day.
In addition to the weight loss, my cholesterol is now excellent despite the fact I routinely eat fatty foods and foods high in sodium. And there is a lot of evidence that eating less and slowing your metabolism will lead to a longer life due to reduced free radical production by the cells in my body.
The point is, during the first couple of months of my diet I ate less than 1/3rd what I usually ate. My body was absolutely screaming for food almost all the time. I had to learn to control this, and it was by no means easy. I found that if I hate food in my apartment, I basically would eat it. My will power just wasn't there. What did I do? Got rid of the food. When I bought food, I would buy enough for that meal. For those times where I would feel faint (only happened rarely due to drops in blood sugar early on) I would snack on things like olives (healthy and filling, but have few calories), and drink a decent amount of water or lemon water.
At any rate, while it was tough, I controlled myself. I reject the argument that I have greater will power than the average American fattie. I certainly don't. (Trust me.) It's a matter of choosing the long term benefits of not being a fattie over the short term pleasure of eating when you're hungry, or upset, or whatever. Sometimes this is hard, but if you're committed to it anybody can do it. The problem is most people simply choose the short term pleasure of eating that last piece of pie.
I'm a fat American. I don't think I've eaten a bit of food in the last two weeks that didn't have a recipe for a synthetic polymer as the list of ingredients.
Healthy food is available to me. However it is more expensive, takes effort *gasp* to prepare and I generally prefer the taste of a fat/sugar/salt/chemical combo for some reason. I'm fat because I prefer to eat this garbage and do as little physical exertion as possible.
The VAST majority of fat people in my country are fat for the exact same reasons that I am. Virus my ass. God forbid someone, ANYONE in this country take a little responsibility for themselves and their own actions.
Tsk tsk people.
I was going to suggest a funny name for it, but I haven't gotten around to it yet.
May I suggest the 'putitovatron'? It would be named of course for the noted Russian physicist Vladly Putitov.
I want to drag this out as long as possible. Bring me my protractor.
Oh great, now we're contagious, too? It's going to be even harder for fat guys to get laid.
When I was in my 20's, I was lean as a rail and I probably kept 3 grocery stores in business single-stomached. Now, I'm 20 years older, 80 pounds heavier, and I eat a tiny fraction of what I did then.
I don't run 3-4 miles a day, but I'm not a couch potato either. I take regular walks in the good weather, and use the stairs instead of the elevator, but it doesn't seem to help.
Slow down, cowboy! It has been 4 hours since you last posted. You must wait another few hours.
1. Change the name of all Diet Cola to "Regular". Change all Regular to "Extra Sugar". Sell water as "Diet".
2. Reverse the labeling system regarding "Fat Free" to show how much fat in big optimistic lettering. "98% Fat Free!" becomes "2% Fat!". Require this labeling for all food items.
3. Label all escalators as the "Crippled Stairs". Nobody likes to think of themselves as crippled, and the disabled will get used to it.
4. Change all food items labeled "Small", "Regular", and "Large" to read "Regular", "Large", and "For Fat-asses".
Pure marketing, and it gets the job done.
Eh?
Eh?
(shamelessly stolen from this jackass.)
Where I come from we have a saying: "Every pound comes through the mouth".
And it is as simple as that.
Read, refresh, repeat.
The cure to obesity is to eat and live healthier
Well, that is one cure. Researchers are discovering cures to new techniques to reduce obesity though without diet and exercise. One example are two drugs that are about to get FDA approval here. Also, researchers are currently looking at drugs that modify genes to change metabolism. This would cause an obese person to digest food faster. This research is very promising and should be out in 5 years. It's a narrow view to think that the only solution to a problem is the one you know. Many people can't or don't want to cure obesity with diet and exercise.
No Sigs!
According to this link ( http://www.accessexcellence.org/WN/SUA09/obesity49 7.html) , this "news" is 9 years old. I remember seeing a an item on tv about it.
Years ago, a gym here in Rochester, NY had billboards up that said: "When the aliens invade, they'll eat the fat people first."
Here's an interesting situation.
When I was in the Army, there was a period of time when I was with a group of people, and we pretty much ate the same things, did the same exercises, and had pretty much the same very physical schedule.
Most of us lost weight/fat. But a few of us (like me), actually put on weight - mostly fat.
I can't explain how it happened and it wasn't like I had a hidden supply of candy bars.
I'd wager that we were eating the same caloric intake within +-100 calories, and again, we were running the same 5 miles a day, hiking the same 12, with the same 50 lbs of gear, doing the same hundreds of pushups, situps, etc.
It would be interesting to identify what caused this difference. Is it just metabolism? Could one of these virii be part of the equation?
I know you want to say it's because I'm lazy and can't control my eating. Would I be vindicated in any way if a vaccination/anti-viral happened to help me lose my excess fat?
I'm all for personal accountability - but I sure as hell want to know when the deck is stacked against me. And there's a tool to unstack the deck, I'm all for it.
Obesity is more often caused by combining the following: Undereating, Eating nutrionally-deficient foods, and a sedentary lifestyle.
My advice? Get up, go outside, eat something besides pop and chips, and stop starving yourself out of guilt. Also, a positive mental attitude seems to have a huge impact.
evolution will take care of this too. Survival of the fittest. The human body will over time learn that it doesn't need to store as much energy for the future. May be we homo sapiens would branch into two different species, the well to do (as in not starving) and the poor (who struggle for a good meal a day).
I know I sound crazy... but this is a Monday!
-ItsME
There is also a strong correlation between those living on welfare (well below the poverty level) and obsesty. Considering that the cheapest foods are lacking in nutritional benefits, I can see why.
... but I'm putting fresh "No Fat Chicks in Bikinis" bumperstickers on my car, just to be on the safe side...
"Oh my God. This is terrible. This is the end of my Presidency. I'm fucked."; ~ Donald J. Trump
both good points. Sleep is always overlooked! Although the only real way to lose weight is eat less + exercise more, as someone who was once heavy then lost a significant amount of weight and kept it off it became clear that there isn't a linear relationship between effort and results.
At least for me there were certain "weight plateaus" where it took longer to lose 5 lbs than at other times. Conversely, once in a plateau it was relatively easy to stay there as it required a certain amount of effort to gain weight. This so-called virus perhaps affects the body in a similar fashion, but if such a virus exists my interest would be why do some people have it but not others? What is the transmission vector?
There's an great website by John Walker (founder of Autodesk) called The Hackers Diet that explores the nature of weight from a chemical/engineering perspective. Also provides a series of Excel spreadsheets to monitor weight loss/gain
:: the general public is as disinterested in advanced art as ever
Of course if you shoot someone on purpose it's your fault, but what if, perhaps, a manufacturing defect caused the gun to discharge without you pulling the trigger? Did you ever consider that there MAY BE OTHER FACTORS INVOLVED
Perhaps you shouldn't be pointing the gun at anyone then.
We can't do anything about these virii at the moment, and I'm not so sure we should. There's no point in worrying about those things, just as there's little point in worrying about a gun discharging due to a manufacturing defect. What we can do is moderate our consumption and keep tabs on what we consume. There are subtances that are helpful in small quantities, but harmful in large ones (the most common being alcohol products like wine or beer). Consider fatty foods one such poison. To continue with the gun analogy, we shouldn't be pointing a gun at someone we don't want to shoot in the first place.
Interesting as it is from an academic standpoint, this is just another way for overweight people to assign blame to anything but themselves. Sure a chain of circumstances could have resulted in obesity. But the individual is as much a part of that chain as the food, the society, and these viruii. If the chain had been broken at that point, obesity would not ensue.
"If a nation expects to be ignorant and free in a state of civilization, it expects what never was and never will be."
In the average grocery store, there is very
little healthy food. Nearly every single packaged food contains
either refined sugar or hydrogenated oils or both.
Obesity is largly due to lifestyle and diet. I would strongly suspect
that if there is a virus associated with obesity that it is not causal.
Rather, obese people tend to have depressed immune and hormonal systems
as a consequency of their obesity.
In similar manner, there is a scalp parasite, Demodex folliculorum,
that is present in alopecia. It is not considered to be the cause of baldness.
Funny how the US seems to be hit so hard .. must be something in the water *nods* ... Best just drink Coke, that's bound to be sterile :p
I'm too skinny. :-)
That's not what our bodies were designed for.
Wow. Intelligent design is being implied from a user named "Cro Magnon".
That's a neat bit of irony. Or at least a good excuse to take things out of context.
-- Sometimes you have to turn the lights off in order to see.
Okay, so there are lots and lots of comments here that boil down to "put the cheeseburger down!", but in a stunning reversal, I actually RTFA. True, people should try to eat well, and on the whole I agree that most people should spend a little more time walking (or biking, or jogging, or whatever) and a little less time in front of the television. That being said, the article raises some interesting possibilities. If viral activity could be a cause of weight-gain, I'd rather know about it than simply insist that the guy who's oozing out of the sides of his seat down the aisle from me has no self-control.
There was a time when illness was "obviously" the result of evil spirits playing havoc on people who were not devout enough. I'll bet at some point there were people standing around the village square commenting on how "if that fool had just spent a little more time praying than [insert sinful activity here], he obviously wouldn't be lying on the ground hacking up a lung and burning up from fever". Just because this line of research goes against what we believe to be common-knowledge isn't really a reason to jump all over it, we can be wrong.
So, no, it's clearly not an excuse to give up eating well or exercising, but I'm not going to just say there's nothing to this until there's been a bit more study.
Some bring out the best in others, some the worst. Some bring out far more.
My wife and I put our son into daycare at 3 months. After maybe two months, we changed his formula intake -- 2, 8oz bottles instead of 3 4-oz bottles to try to shift his feeding into the daytime and get him off a nighttime bottle.
We got immediate "feedback" from the staff about "cutting" his intake. I had to explain to them that it was actually a net increase for daytime feeding (16 vs. 12 oz) and his overall intake was actually up by 4 oz. They politely disagreed and we said we'd change it back if problems arose. After a week it was a non-issue.
After thinking about it, I realized what the real issue was -- the staff liked to feed him more frequently and we believed they were actually using the feeding as a way to soothe him; the feeding times for the bottles varied quite a bit. By cutting him to two bottles a day, they were "losing" a soothing option.
It was then that I started thinking about the staff; all of them would qualify as overweight, three of them would probably qualify as obese and one of them probably is pushing the morbidly obese standard.
I started wondering if the childhood obesity phenomenon couldn't partly be traced to daycare; at an early age, if given the opportunity, the staff will use food the way they probably use it themselves -- as a way to soothe and manage anxiety.
I'm probably stretching this a lot, but it doesn't seem entirely unrealistic. Kids in increasingly large numbers since the 1970s have been put into daycares, and they've been subjected to food as a behavior modifier -- soothing babies, calming toddlers, and so on. The fact that daycare providers are, by and large, at the bottom of the socioeconomic ladder probably also means that the kids are being subjected to the caregivers own poor habits as well.
I know there are other influences (TV, advertising, parental disregard, etc), but I do wonder if bad food choices in daycare doesn't lay the groundwork for a fairly deep-seated set of food/emotion connections that play out as the child gets older and has more opportunity to make their own food choices.
"It might be interesting to ask why so many people *aren't* becoming obese."
Depression, with a corresponding lack of appetite? Such people have always been with us. Genetic.
Then there're people in the world who have to spend a lot of their income on food, so they're careful about what and how much they eat.
There're people who have found better things to do than eat?
There're people who just have been brought up eating soyburgers and vitamins. THEY'RE depressing. They're so healthy that they glow in the dark. Makes you feel like a decript old malnourished geezer, 'cause you are.
Time for another Pepsi...
These days, there are a *lot* more refined sugars and simple carbohydrates.
Also, this contributes to diabetes, IIRC. Basically, big sugar highs and lows screw up the natural insulin-based sugar regulation system until it finally just stays broken no matter what you do.
Your theory is inconsistent with the reality of hunter gatherer life (namely Bushmen). The problem is simply the abundance of food. Although farmers certainly work hard. They work much harder then their more tribal counterparts.
Bushmen do get to walk around a bit more. They're more akin to modern people that would have to walk to the corner grocery on a daily basis. Bushmen still tend to setup camp where the food is. They're not going to waste calories going too and fro when they can just move their hovels over to the next grove or whatnot.
A Pirate and a Puritan look the same on a balance sheet.
Please don't forget one other major factor -
Food used to be fairly simple. Thousands of years of grains/meats/herbs combined with moderately low heat on an individual basis. Modern food processing (for those of us that eat in such countries) involves food processes, chemicals, and techniques that we certainly did not evolve for. High fructose corn syrup in almost everything (hamburger buns? WTF?), foods created by superheating and injecting gases, and foods assembled in a laboratory are definately a curve ball.
I doubt anyone would drink soda if they actually had to form it from its core components. I can handle cooking steak, pastries, etc. I know how to grow/hunt the ingredients for most foods. Where does one hunt the wild aspartame? How do you go about making msg? If you had to do it in your kitchen, would you even bother?
Also, my pet theory is that humans are designed to be social eaters (sharing the kill, the harvest, etc). Company makes foods better. Ever smell a McDonald's burger that smells as good as a backyard barbecue one? Now, however, a lot of people wolf down their food by themselves in the car, or while working. They don't stop to pay attention to it, and they also frequently ingest several hundred calories of soda while eating.
Just my two bits.
-WS
An operating system should be like a light switch... simple, effective, easy to use, and designed for everyone.
the human body (and its ancestors) evolved in environments in which food was scarce
An awful lot of the developing world would say that food is STILL pretty scarce.
steampunk web design
The statement: [something related to biology or the human body] is simple! Is always, always, always a lie. A big lie. A big fat stupid lie. A big fat stupid lie with diabetes and countless chins. Can we do away with this? Please? You'll notice that science type folks tend to phrase things very carefully. This isn't just their way of fancy talkin'. They're trying to communicate in some way the overwhelming complexity of the thing they're studying, and trying to emphasize how little is known.
The cause of human obesity is really very complex.
And anyway, this whole "evolution forced us to be efficient energy storage machines!" is a little ridiculous. It's highly speculative, and it doesn't give us any useful information on how to solve the problem. IT WAR TEH EVOLUSHUN! Why is the assumption that our ancestors were always hungry so prevalent. You know, our ancestors were real smarties, and there's a lot of food out there. Also, people have been smart enough to store food for thousands of years, which really takes the edge off the "I'll just store food in my body!" thing.
You're saying our bodies were designed, parent post said we evolved to include a mechanism many long years ago to store food for tough times... so is it "intelligent design", or "evolution"?!? I'm so confused.
ROFL! Let the flame wars begin!
Also, we used to run after our food and throw spears at it before we could eat.
I had to chase down a hot dog vendor today and throw spears at him before he'd stop to sell me a Chicago dog with everything and an icy cold Coca-Cola. Does that count?
God invented whiskey so the Irish would not rule the world.
You have a pretty determined attitude for someone who is factually wrong. I go to the gym twice a day, for cardio in the morning and for weights in the evening. Better than 70% of the people in both areas you mention (cardio and free weights) are over weight. That's why they are there.
All of the fundamental research for the last 10-20 years says that you have to do both aerobic/cardio and resistance training. Doing just one or the other doesn't work well.
You assumption that people who are lifting weights will be in shape and those who are running on the treadmill are going to be fat just illustrates how little you actually know about the subject.
Maybe M$ will release a patch? (or not)
spoonerize "magic trackpad"
Damnit! I just knew I wouldn't be able to get away with doing fat chicks! Even though no one caught me, I've been gaining weight over the last 5 years...
No one said the design was intelligent. We designed ourselves with what we had available. Unfortunately that means that we contain quite a lot of legacy body parts and features and get problems like appendix issues, wisdom teeth problems, a back that isn't completely suited to standing, a windpipe sharing our food intake, etc.
Eating less can actually worsen the problem. When you eat less, your metabolism slows down, and prevents you from burning as many calories. Your body assumes food is unavailable, and tries to conserve the resources it has. Exercising while on an extreme low-calorie diet will simply make you exhausted, without burning as many calories as it would otherwise.
When trying to lose weight, eating better is much more important than eating less.
Here are a few tips that have helped me:
Okay, motivational rant is over. Now turn off Slashdot and get out there!
Find environmentally and socially responsible products on http://buy-right.net
Of course it is contagious.
Instead of being transmitted through air or bodily fluids it is transmitted through soft drinks, chips, and fast food. Frequent and regular movement appears to work the contagion out of the body faster slowing down, if not reversing symptoms.
I for one welcome our new obesity-causing viral overlords.
Laws affecting technology will always be bad until enough techies become lawyers.
A common and convenient way to boost the immune system performance is to eat fresh fruits and vegetables on a regular basis... which is still the same foods of choice to keep your weight down to begin with.
Am I the only one surprised they didn't call the virus Ob353 instead of Ad-37?
FatCHYOU!
http://cubemonkey.net/quotes -- fortune-mod quote generator
I'm a 5'8 male, and according to the charts, my "ideal" weight is 159 lbs, and I should weigh no more than 175. Now in college, I managed to get down to 190 for a while, which is still "legally" overwieght. Back then I was consuming And that was college. I seriously doubt I could get under 200 lbs and live to tell about it.
Free MacMini
Food that has high calorie content and high fat, maybe high sodium, basically shite without any redeeming nutritional value ought to be taxed - a lot.
Manufacturers already spend $ billions / year on advertising, do not let them tell you they can't afford it.
If they say that they'll just pass costs on to consumers, fine, that's the point (plus collecting tax revenues from shite-eaters for their eventual medical needs).
If they say it's social engineering, tell them that social engineering is what they've done with their advertising dollars.
Also wouldn't hurt to tax gasoline more too - get them out of their cars!
Of course, it wouldn't be America anymore if companies weren't encouraged to profit at the expense of society, would it?
Some side effects to Obesity can include, bitching at the grocery store, driving an SUV, eating fast food on a regular basis, and spawning overweight kids (For you female figures)
It's funny, whenever a discussion on obesity arises (whether on Slashdot or IRL), people seem to settle into 2 camps:
1. Eat less, exercise more! Guaranteed you'll lose weight!
2. Do you think fat people REALLY want to be fat? It's not their fault! It's their metabolisms (or a virus, perhaps)!
Call me crazy, but I think there's a bit of truth in BOTH statements.
Fact is, ON AVERAGE, the more you eat, the more weight you will gain. ON AVERAGE, the more exercise you get, the more weight you will lose. I can't see anyone disputing this, for the AVERAGE case. Hell, it really applies to everyone, but to differing degrees. Personally, I've been in both camps.
Some people burn as many calories as they intake, no matter what. I used to be one of them. 4000, 5000 calories a day, combined with sitting around watching TV, and I stayed incredibly slim. As I finally emerged from what seemed like 10 years of puberty, this changed, and changed a lot. Lately I can put a pound or two on per day, if I'm not careful. I have to be very careful in what I eat or I'll balloon up in a month - well, for someone of my weight it IS ballooning, anyway. However, I can still have weeks where I eat a ton of food, so long as I exercise myself silly. In my case, it's hiking 20kms up the side of a mountain. After that I can eat damn near everything in sight for a week. In the winter when I slow down, I have to eat a LOT less or the pounds pile on.
I think it's safe to say that most people are in a range from hummingbird to tortise when it comes to metabolism. The key is figuring out where you lie on that scale, and adjusting your habits accordingly. I know of people who will just put on fat forever. They need to eat very nutritious, low calorie foods, and get plenty of exercise in order to stay reasonably thin. Does it suck? Yup. Is it "unfair" that some people can eat whatever they want, whenever they want? Sure - but you're not going to get very far whining about it. There are some extreme cases of people who simply cannot do anything but gain weight - their bodies are totally out of whack. Seems to me that these people are in a very small minority though - or else obesity wouldn't be such a recent thing. You don't often see 400 lb people in poorer countries, for instance, and you sure didn't see many of them 100 years ago.
Some days I wish I was still 16, and could eat all the time. Then again, in those days I couldn't put on muscle to save my life, no matter what or how much I ate, or how much I exercised.
Long story short? Live with the cards you've been dealt, and know that it's actually OK to feel hungry sometimes. Far too many people insist on feeling very full after every meal - hell, after every hour for the extreme snackers out there.
Endless arguments over trivial contradictions in books written by ignorant savages to explain thunder in the dark.
"Still fat, yet starved of required nutrients."
Right, like vitamins and minerals, which last time I checked, don't have any calories.
"You can't even make the case that the pleasures of eating and relaxation (or avoiding the discomfort of working out and going hungry) are more important to them than their health and appearance. There are people who are suicidal over their weight, and willing to endure painful, dangerous, ill-advised medical procedures to correct it."
Is it so difficult for you to understand that the same mechanism that makes their eating behavior maladapted can also make their coping mechanisms maladapted?
Why do you assume the two are mutually exclusive?
How pathetic are you that you follow me from topic to topic and waste all your mod points at once modding me down?
There is no single answer for everyone. That same regiment could irreparably harm and even kill people. Some pre-existing conditions can and do have effective on many aspects of life. A diabetic would surely die by following your example. A person with sleep apnea, a major cause and effect of weight gain is a condition that can keep a person attempting your regiment from ever getting anywhere with it. Your suggestions and assumptions are really rather wreckless.
Just because you can, does not mean you should.
...is that these viruses may actually be evolutionarily advantageous. The article was extremely short on info about the mechanisms through which they cause humans to become obese. For example, they may simply make humans more efficient processors of calories. In the presence of excess caloric intake, this would cause the "more efficient" folks to become obese where "less efficient" individuals would not.
Consider the AAV2 virus, which I think has been covered on Slashdot before, which appears to prevent certain types of cancer. Not all viruses are bad, even if these particular obesity-related viruses turn out to be.
I would agree with you that it could easily be one more factor in obesity, but I would also agree that it probably doesn't amount to much more than 5-15 lbs. a year. Crappy eating (and drinking*) habits, a lack of exercise and a reliance on super-drugs to cure all of the self-inflicted consequences probably account for five times that, though.
(*Soft drinks are 99% calories with some sugar added for taste. Oh, and occasionally ground-up insects, as that's where most red food coloring comes from.)
It's a small world and it smells funny; I'd buy another if it wasn't for the money; Take back what I paid (SoM)
Athletic or Slim people might have a virus that makes them so. So in other words we should have obese people and skinny people live and work near each other until we get "normal" people...
wtf? I think these people are just trying to justify why they are overweight, instead of taking that effort and putting it into excercise.
Great. Just take a pill. Don't worry why your are fat. Don't change your life style. Don't eat less food. Just take a pill.
... just like every other fat person. Just take a pill.
Remember it has nothing to do with what or how much you eat. You have a desease, slow metabolism, rare condition
What the fuck is wrong with the world. Why is big Pharma always trying to sell us a pill.
This is going to make it harder to recruit a Wingman to take to the bar.
Wanna fight ? Bend over, stick your head up your ass, and fight for air.
"Yes, and the solution to kick heroin is to stop shooting up, but even if you TYPE IT IN ALL CAPS, a junkie is still going to need more help then you shouting at them."
Quitting cold turkey is just as effective as any other method, so even though you tried, your attempt at a witty analogy fails.
And why is it that you're equating obesity with dependence, except when it comes to cause?
How pathetic are you that you follow me from topic to topic and waste all your mod points at once modding me down?
I'm afraid you're more than just a little muddled in your reactionary ways there, so here's a simple analogy for you.
An automobile is a very complicated gadget. Scientists, mechanics, and auto designers have careful ways of phrasing to describe the automobile's overwhelming complexities.
Despite this, however, it is exceedingly simple to make a car go, go faster, go slower, and keep fueled.
An entire magazine dedicated to getting the First Post is taking things too far.
Now on topic: If people wouldn't spend all day trying to get first post and got some exercise, they wouldn't be so fat.
Seriously. Look at the number of meds out there that cause people to gain weight as a "side effect."
Personally, I'll take the torrential anal leakage.
It wasn't all those pizzas and donuts all along....
Slashdot - Where the slash is most definitely to the left.
totally...missed...the joke.
-- Sometimes you have to turn the lights off in order to see.
Well then I guess all we have to do is give it to all the poor people in Africa and Latin America and they'll turn into big fatties! Yay!
To those who are interested in the hackers diet, I also recommend looking at the No-S Diet (http://nosdiet.com/). I like it because it can be explained in three rules rather than needing a whole book to understand it all, and its actually do-able. It's not a quick fix, but really works over time.
That's not what our bodies evolved for.
"I'm sure it has nothing to do with the availability of junk food and the national automobile culture."
Isn't it funny how you fail to mention the influence of the computer.
PS off topic rant, stop this stupid blame the automobile for the world's ills shit. It's just completely ignorant.
Cars are tools. Blame oil, blame stupid drunk drivers, but a car parked in a garage is just a machine so stop acting like they run on infant's blood. It gets tired.
How pathetic are you that you follow me from topic to topic and waste all your mod points at once modding me down?
or only feed it further.
I used to assume that anyone "fatter than me" as just lazy, but at some point I realized that there have been times when I ate a lot (especially junk/fatty food) and times when I ate very little, and times when I exercised a lot and times when I exercised very little--and for the most part I have stayed slightly chubby pretty much the entire time.
What I do see fairly consistently is that a lot of people who are skinny, aren't really healthy--they're just smokers.
~
I have lost more than 100 lbs, and it had very little to do with willpower. It had roughly everything to do with the fact that I quit eating the things that were making me constantly hungry, namely, the things on that goddamned low-fat fad diet that the high priests of the nutritional religion are still pushing, despite the fact that it is not only ineffective, but unhealthy. Hunger is like water-drip torture; you can stand it for a while, but eventually you cave. Since I quit eating grains, starches, and sugar 7 years ago, I not only lost 100 excess pounds, but also lost my excessive hunger, my nocturnal myoclonus (RLS), my arthritis, my lack of night vision, and my adult acne. So far, the only problems that I had experienced with low-carb have been the well-meaning fools (including doctors) who insist on lecturing me about how 'unhealthy' low-carb is.
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And yet it just doesn't work that that way in biology. Your simple analogy is stupid. Biology is still always complex. Cars are, in comparison, pretty simple-- and designed by humans, and designed specifically to be easily controlled by humans. Biology wasn't designed by humans, nor was it meant (whatever that means) to be controlled by humans.
Also, we know everything about how a car works (within reason. We know enough to build one, after all). We do not know everything about how humans work. The only way to build a new human is a risky hit-and-miss kind of affair that gets very messy and doesn't always work out for the involved parties.
I don't think I'm muddled on this one-- your attempt to muddy the waters with a crappy analogy hasn't swayed me. Simple statements about biological mechanisms are overwhelmingly inaccurate or misleading. Even a seemingly intuitive statement like "if I eat more, I will gain weight" is misleading, and frequently untrue.
Why do you think Pseudoscience is such a damned hit? It's easy an enjoyable to make incorrect generalizations about these overwhelmingly complicated systems.
Help me out here, Mr. AC-- what's so simple about Biology? Especially in this context!
..perhaps the anti-roundtuit. For if you get a roundtuit, you are no longer procrastinating.
Im not here now... Im out KILLING pepperoni
Comment removed based on user account deletion
This is exactly how I developed my current diet/exercise regimen. I'm a tall, slender, 23 year old male who developed a bit of a "spare tire" in college. Starting in October 2005, I began a fitness and nutrition program that I made up myself by observing nature. Consider:
1. With rare exception, humans are the only animals on the planet that get obese, and other animals that are obese usually got there due to human intervention.
2. For 40,000+ years, humans lived like other animals: When we weren't eating, we were being active hunting our next meal, or sleeping to regenerate our bodies. A measly ~100 years of McSociety isn't going to change what our species has adapted to thus far.
3. If the above is true, then the best way to stay healthy is to not fight nature, but try to live as closely to this way as possible. Excersise regularly, get plenty of sleep, and eat a lot of food.
There are a couple "tricks" though. Nature didn't intend for humans to eat processed food, so it's best to eat as much "real" food as possible. The other aspect that's often overlooked is building lean muscle mass. Each pound of lean muscle mass you add to your body burns approximately 50 calories a day at rest. If you want to lose body fat and keep it off, YOU CANNOT DO IT THROUGH AEROBIC EXERCISE ALONE!
Following these guidelines, I've been running this program since October, eating 3000 to 4000 calories a day(!), moderate fat intake, high protein intake, moderate carbohydrate intake, and avoiding grains. I have gone from 184 lbs. @ 22% body fat to 192 lbs. @ 19% body fat. I look and feel healthier, I have more energy through the day, I sleep better at night, and I don't get exhausted climbing a flight of stairs anymore.
I'm not a doctor or personal trainer or anything like that, but following the diet/exercise routine the human body has become adapted to through thousands of years of evolution works. Try it yourself. Anyone who says otherwise is selling something.
If Chaos Theory has taught us anything, it's that we must kill all the butterflies.
Rocket surgery
Hahaha.
As you can see, http://www.theonion.com/content/node/30630, the Onion is once again predicting Future Science...
The human body [...] has built-in mechanisms to ensure that there will be sufficient energy store [...]
Now [...] put it into an environment [with lots of food available]. What do you expect will happen?
And how does this explain identical twins, raised together, one of whom is obese - always when only the obese one has antibodies for a member of a particular family of viruses?
The human body has a feedback mechanism to keep the mature fat cells at a particular per-cell fat content. If they're less than that full, they emit a chemical messenger to turn up hunger. Without that feedback mechanism, even a tiny error in the amount of hunger would result in the cells either emptying out or filling to the max they could hold.
There is another mechanism to make the right number of fat cells go to the mature stage. This is modulated by such things as the regularity of meals, especially during childhood. The remaining proto-fat cells just sit there (perhaps as spares for later.) Once the cells are mature they last a very long time, and anything that causes them to empty out below their setpoint causes the person they're in to become ravenous, and put the weight back on.
I've seen other descriptions of this research a couple months back. What it indicates is that infections by certain viruses cause ALL the fat cells to mature.
Once that happens the person becomes obese. Any weight loss results in hunger that causes the weight to be regained.
Easy availability of food has nothing to do with it - if there's enough to avoid starvation there's enough to eat the little bit extra that causes weight to ramp up.
Ditto availability of high-fat "empty-calorie" fast food versus balanced diets with small portions of "heathy" fare. If he eats too little to keep the fat cells at setpoint the victim feels like he's starving. So he'll chow down on seconds of the soup and salad for as many weeks as necessary to get his fat cells back to "full".
Lack of self-control has essentially nothing to do with it. With near-superhuman self-control an obese person might substitute external feedback (i.e. from a scale) for the internal signals and control his weight that way. But that means ignoring continuous gnawing hunger - forever.
= = = =
Note that the headline is misleading. It isn't OBESITY that's contagious. By the time a victim is obese the virus is apparently long gone. The victim is now immune to re-infection with the same strain (either for life or for a while) and no longer contagious.
Like polio, this is "a bad cold" with after-effects. In polio's case the recovering victim's immune system attacks their motor nerves' mylen sheaths. With this syndrome some as yet undiscovered virus-precipitated mechanism results in the fat cells all going mature, after which the now-recovered victim begins to put on weight.
Bantam Dominique roosters crow a four-note song. Once you've heard it as "Happy BIRTHday" you can't NOT hear it that way
And that to eat truly healthy food, it usually costs more. Spending more seems to go against our overwhelming capitalist nature. There have been numerous studies done (all the ones I've read have been from the UK though, but I'm sure there are similar ones in the US) which show that those on poorer incomes have significantly reduced access to "healthy" food, and as such eat rubbish. Which becomes a vicious cycle as increased health problems and obesity lead to their own additional problems and expenses.
Glenn
The Smrt way to trade CFDs on the ASX
Surely the Fight or Flight basic instinct has to come in to play here as well?
In response to coming adverse situations the primal part of the brain that controls such things,
in Fighters will lower metabolism, dig in and prepare for the long haul.
in Flighters will raise the metabolism to have lots of energy on stand by, to run away.
"Call us when the New age is old enough to drink" Beck
This is so true. There's a super market withing a few blocks of my home in Phoenix, but I would never bike there. You'd be taking your life in your hands. There's no margin between the street and the footpath (sidewalk) and drivers are just not looking out for bikes.
Canberra, Australia, (a city just a few decades old) has a great system of walking/biking trails. You could almost get from one part of the city to any other without leaving the bike trail. All trails tunnel under major road ways. But hey, those whacky Australians will try anything. They don't feel obligated to always keep with convention. (Yes, I split an infinitive. WTF cares.)
See, jokes are funny. That's why they call them "jokes".
Why yes, I AM a rocket scientist!
So now I can realy blame my fat ass co-workers for making me fat.
Isn't that what they said about penicillin when it first came out? I mean working out is great and all but aren't there better things to do with our time if we come out with a way to do the exact same thing using some form of suplementation? I know we don't have the technology to do this today, but shouldn't we at least look into it? Or is the status quo ok with you?
No Sigs!
Look, the cause of obesity is really very simple: the human body (and its ancestors) evolved in environments in which food was scarce, and during that time mechanisms came into being which helped to deal with that scarcity.
Plausible as that may seem, there is little evidence for that hypothesis. At this point, the causes of obesity still have to be considered unknown.
Besides, even if the hypothesis is true, the food consumption of our ancestors evolved in the presence of adenoviruses, which means that adenoviruses could still be the cause of modern-day obesity.
I don't know about you, but if I could take a pill to get rid of my need to sleep with minimal side effects, I wouldn't think twice.
I don't hunt for my food. I don't make my own clothes. I use birth control. I have central heating. I shower every day. I take allergy medicine. I get flu shots and vaccines. I take pain killers when I hurt. I brush my teeth and go to the dentist. If my teeth fell out, I would get fake ones. If my arm was cut off, I would get a prosthetic. If I stepped on a rusty nail, I would get a tetanus shot. If my wife was to get pregnant, I would merrily take her to the doctors to have the kid delivered. I am more then happy to live 80+ years while my tribal ancestors were damn lucky to live even half of that.
There are "natural" thing I have absolutely no desire to do. Why not throw another one onto the list? Yeah, I know it is fun to play new-age hippie and decry modern life all the while being snug in your central heated or cooled apartment eating fruits and vegitables from the far corners of the earth. If natural is what you want, you have already failed. So why the hell not just run with it?
If I could get away with eating like crap without taking years off my life, I would be as enthusiastic about it as I am getting vaccines. I eat healthy because I have to, not because I get off on eating a pile of veggies and ignoring the perfectly good pizza shop next door. If popping a pill then slamming down a whole double cheese pizza and a liter of cola doesn't appeal to you, you have my utmost sympathy.
What you overlook is that human beings are animals, and hence complex biochemical factories, not simple heat engines.
You're partially right. But eating is not the only way to control your weight.
Maybe you think it is fine for one person to eat 2900 calories a day, do little exercise, and stay thin; while another person eats 2000 calories, walks six miles and gains weight.
Well, I don't think that's fine. In fact, that's PHYSICALLY IMPOSSIBLE.
Here's an essay about gluttony and the conservation of mass.
By eating you accumulate carbon in your body. But there's no way to get the carbon out except in the form of CO2 (by breathing). Exercises which make you breath at an accelerated rate, will make you lose the carbon out of your body. As simple as that.
Some people do not exercise in the right way, they try to make exercise, but the least exercise possible. Unless the carbon they release daily with exercise is more than the carbon they eat daily, they will still get fat.
In other words, the cause of obesity is not quite eating too much, but exercising too little.
yes, but where it gets complex is how one's body handles the food that it eats.
the marketing of the zone diet attempts to keep insulin within a zone by balancing macronutrients - protein, carbs and fat. the amount of food eaten is based upon lean body mass and exercise level.
the argument for why two folks can eat the same amount of food and one can end up fat and the other skinny is that their body's insulin response is different.
excess insulin will cause one's body to convert and store glucose (from carbs) as fat. if one doesn't over produce insulin then one has less of a problem here.
same food, different results.
i can't verify the science and i have no doubt some of the claims are unsupported hype (yet others are very well supported).
all i know is the diet works for me - more energy, better moods, not hungry, weight loss and better cardiovascular health. i'm not sure why it works, but the insulin production theme seems to be reasonable, imho.
In a few years, they'll discover that 1 in 200 obese people have this terrible obesity virus, compared to 1 in 1000 non-obese people.
A joke! he he he
"In America, first you get the sugar, then you get the power, then you get the women..." -H. Simpson
Just stopping and experiencing your food will make you eat less.
Especially if you eat at McDonalds and Taco Bell often.
I've noticed a trend that seems to say that human beings know everything. We have the mentality of, "Hey, got this problem? Take this pill! It fixes everything." Very little thought is given to other effects of taking that particular pill. Most of the people commenting on this subject seem to have the attitude that all it takes is to reduce caloric intake and increase physical exertion. While this is certainly the most reasonable approach to weight loss, it may not be the only answer. The human body is extremely complex and not everything has a 1 to 1 cause and effect relationship like so many people think. We know quite a bit about the human body, but who are any of you to say that it is out of the question to consider that there might actually be some kind of complex relationship between a virus or whatever and obesity? In the last few decades we have started to pump so much crap into our bodies that was never intended to be there that God only knows what all of the combined side effects are. Not to mention all of the genetically enhanced food that we eat now.
Human biology, and that of any living thing for that matter, is extremely complex. Nothing is ever as simple as finding a square peg to stop up this square hole. So don't be so narrow minded and judgmental as to say that all you need to do to lose weight is to eat less and exercise more. There might, just possibly, be a more complex problem here.
When one measures success, or progress, using body weight as a metric, it can be misleading. When I lift weights to shed fat, I can gain more weight the trimmer I look (the muscle weight vs fat factor).
However, on the ever-so-slight possibility that you're being cynical, biology is a physical system and metabolism is actually a very trivial example of the law of conservation of energy and the laws of thermodynamics.
What is expended - regardless of form, plus what you retain, must always exactly equal what you start off with plus what you add. That will be true both of physical matter and of the energy contained therein. It doesn't get much simpler, or more universal. The steps are only important in this discussion in the sense of whether a virus could alter them significantly. The physics on which the steps operate are independent of the steps themselves and, in general, are more significant as you can quantify matter and energy rather more easily than you can quantify the exact mechanics of mitochondria or the precise ppm of different enzymes or hormones.
(I also prefer working in low-level terms, as you only have to look at one subject. The full range of fields in biology and biochemistry that you'd need to learn to cover the topic at the cellular level would be horrible and I doubt there's anyone - on Slashdot or otherwise - with doctorates in each and every single one of them.)
It's a small world and it smells funny; I'd buy another if it wasn't for the money; Take back what I paid (SoM)
After that he left her to Web Hubble, Chelsea's dad.
Why do Fat people Drink Diet Soda and skinny people drink regular.
First if you are over weight. Drink water. Second, fake sugar can not be good for the human body.
NO ONE LISTEN TO THIS POSTER!!!
look at the grammer and spelling. A little too good right? This guy works for the CIA!!!!! THERE USING THE ALIENS AS COVER SO WE DON'T REALISE THEIR USING FASTFOOD TO GIVE US MIND CONTROL DRUGS!!!!!
Fat is a side affect to hide the REAL issue! They couldn't get past our AFDBs so they tried something else!
"I swear I won't break you if you let me take you where the willows never weep" -- Switchblade Symphony
just how far obese people will go to justify their lack of self-control. Anybody who's been anywhere but America can attest that obesity is virtually non-existant in most of the world. In the Philippines, for instance, I can count on one hand the number of overweight people that I see in the mall on a given day. (note: not obese, just overweight).
If this were a virus, it would be spreading.
One other point, and I think this has been covered everywhere, but lower-income people in the US tend to be heavier. That's because food is plentiful even for people considered "poor" in the US. However, the food that they eat tends to have a higher fat content.
My wife deals with diabetics on the phone all day, and this is the typical "it's not my fault I weigh 300 lbs." crap she deals with all the time. I couldn't take 5 minutes of it, personally.
Well Duh. There is no bad day that starts by sucking tits.
John McAfee 'It was like that time I hired that Bangkok prostitute; to do my taxes, while I fucked my accountant'
I hope that's a lapse and you meant to say "have evolved for". Otherwise I'd have to ask if they were designed intelligently or not.
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A likely result if this turns out to be true is that thin people will be even more reluctant to associate with fat people. And it might get interesting when fat people are denied access to places for fear of infecting others with the fat virus.
Khao Yai Land
I've spent endless hours arguing with researchers over control groups. In many cases, studies are adequate but I would not call them good. There are way too many cases in which controls are absolute junk.
Take the example you mentioned. Sick animals aren't generally as active as ones that are healthy, so unless you factor that in, the study is screwed from the start. Then there's the question of emotional state - were the uninfected mice injected with a placebo, or were only the infected mice injected at all? If the latter, you have at least one other variable that is not being accounted for.
Then, there's always the question of whether the conditions were comparable. It would be fairly typical of researchers to forget that heat, light and air are variables too. It probably wouldn't help matters if one of the groups was close to a box containing rat snakes - stress alters eating habits substantially.
Finally, how big and how random were the groups? You need random groups of a size large enough to even out all other variables before statistics can be used. Grabbing a couple of mice for each group from Petsmart is not a meaningful study.
I've seen researchers who actually do think of how to best conduct an experiment to eliminate the unknowns, but I've also seen researchers who just want to publish and damn the accuracy, because it is through being published that they get paid. It is because there is no easy way to tell the difference (without repeating and varying the experiment, which most have neither the time or resources to do) that there is a heavy dependence on researchers doing their jobs well and why there is so much distrust (because that dependence has been abused by so many).
Of course, all this assumes the researchers did any research at all. There are cases - one currently unfolding in South Korea - where the results are simply fabricated from start to finish.
I would love to see the day when professional malpractice by researchers is treated with the seriousness it deserves. The knock-on effects are often substantial, with the potential for actual harm to many and a very significant risk of derailing the area of research for some time. These are not trivial consequences.
It's a small world and it smells funny; I'd buy another if it wasn't for the money; Take back what I paid (SoM)
and an icy cold Coca-Cola
I'm surprised that after reading all the comments nobody has said anything about soda. Calories from soda are huge. A 2L bottle of soda runs about 2000 calories. If you have your main liquid consumption from soda you're probably drinking about 2 of these a week.
Switch over to water (0 calories), and you'll drop 4000 calories/week out of your diet instantly. That's almost 600 calories a day. It will make a difference. Get a Brita if you can't stand the taste of tap water, buy bottled water if you must spend money on your beverages.
But don't complain to me about being fat and then go grab the Big Gulp of Coke. You won't get any sympathy here.
Do you also believe in angels, fairies, Santa Claus, the Devil, Heaven or Hell, Jesus or Mohammed? If so, you need to wake up, Stupid, and smell the roses.
This is it. After you die you're gone - toast! There's nothing left, no soul, no spirit. And unless you change your ways, all that will remain of you is a 400 pound grease spot. So get to work, Dumbass, you're late off the mark.
If it was global, wouldn't it be a pandemic?
I have lived in three european capitols so far (Stockholm, Dublin, Paris). The european menus are smaller.
:)
Here, you will be able to get one (1) standarn size menu at McD (in France it is called "Best of..." in Sweden simply "Meny". Same stuff). You can replace the fries with a salad if you wish. You can replace the soda with a bottle of water as well. If you pay 50 cent extra you will get a larger coke and fries (or water/salad).
When I visited the US I could choose between "Large", "Extra Large" or "Extra Extra Large". No salad instead of fries (maybe that has changed now?). Other customers seem to take my small menu (a "Large" one, no extras) as a curiosity. Most of them had full trays of food on them. A XXL menu + huge coke + huge fries + extra burger(s).
Pizzas are different as well. In the US you will get a pizza that is very large, contain mostly dough and cheese and it cost about $20 (for a two person pizza). You pay through your nose for something extra on it. You eat the pizza with "pizza bread" (pizza dough with pizza cheese). The soda is usually free.
In Sweden, the standard pizza (for one person) cost between $3.50-7 depending on what you want on it. Normally you will have cheese, ham, mushrooms, vegetables and some other ingredient on it. You get a free salad with your pizza as well but the soda will be additional cost.
To sum up about the burger/pizza topic that I have noted during my travels:
In the US it is normal to eat more with less ingredients.
In europe it is normal to eat less with more ingredients.
P.S. On a side note, I had the best mexican dinner *ever* when I was in the US. Simply delicious!
...can I call into work fat?
Hey disease researchers! I know where this virus is living! There are hordes of afflicted wandering around Philadelphia! Perhaps this has to do with the city's justified reputation (though one that's contested by other cities craving the honor) as the home of modern movie-style zombies. Makes sense to me ... after you're zombified, well, you're hungry!
timothy
jrnl: http://tinyurl.com/c2l8yr / foes: http://tinyurl.com/ckjno5
This is actually really neat, and completely feasible. It's already known that certain parasites modify behaviors in their hosts in order to ensure their own survival- Toxoplasma gondii [wikipedia], for instance, is a protozoan known to cause mice to not be scared of cats, because it lives and grows in mice, but reproduces in cats. So it gets its mice eaten by cats. The same parasite, when found in humans, is correlated with "clumsiness"- a higher incidence of stupid accidents, car crashes, even schizophrenia. And there are a lot of people expected to have it.
In the same way, we know that you can make a rat obese by altering its genetics- it's called the Zucker rat. If you block leptin receptors altogether (leptin is a hormone released by adipose, "fat", tissue) then you can promote feelings of starvation. And if a virus wants to make sure it'll have a nice, long lifetime with little risk-taking and lots of sitting on the part of its host, if it can make its host morbidly fat then it's a good gambit (at least, as long as it's doing so in a culture in which obesity is a feasible survival model for the host, i.e. our culture).
You're looking at a virus, here, that rather than promoting risky, stupid behavior, is promoting low-risk behavior in order to keep its host fat and stable. In a different, less McDonalds-saturated culture, this might even be a benificial symbiosis to the human host. The only weird part about it is that people who are fatter usually have stronger immune systems than those who are very skinny. So that's kind of weird.
I know that a lot of slashdotters like to feel that our mentality is unrelated to our biochemistry, but the simple fact is that it isn't. There's no reason not to believe that this story is true. That said, these people still aren't gaining any weight that they didn't eat themselves, so their problem remains a disorder of not-putting-down-the-damn-fork, regardless of virus.
Great, now they can blame us:
GF/Wife: "I feel fat...and its YOUR FAULT!"
It is by the juice of the coffee bean that thoughts acquire speed, the teeth acquire stains. The stains become a warning
Obesity a disease? Fat chance....
Thanks for nothing, science.
Having been to many Asian countries, I've noticed that Americans are not only a superpower, but also a superfat country. I've never noticed it till now, but this country is filled with ridiculously FAT people. How in the world does someone let one burger after another go down their tummies until they're literally 100 pounds overweight?
In Asia, people considered fat there would be slim here. They eat smaller portions of better tasting food (as opposed to all that processed, fried crap here), and they do lots of walking. Here everyone just hops into their cars and sit all day.
I've heard in Europe, people are skinny too because of a healthier lifestyle.
Go ahead, keep finding excuses for being fat. Sure it's because of genetics, sure it's contagious... 1 calorie isn't really 1 calorie. Fat comes from thin air. Ok...
eTrade SUCKS
http://www.fatchicksinpartyhats.com/
"overweight a contagious condition"
I knew I shouldn't have made out with that fat chick in college. Damn beer goggles.
How is that?
According to research described in New Scientist magazine 01 Oct 2005 ("Slimming for slackers"), the efficiency of extracting energy from food consumed is partly dependent on the mix of bacteria in the gut. We all depend on bacteria to do this for us, but some are more efficient than others. Replacing less efficient bacteria with more efficient ones would allow more calories to be extracted from what has been eaten, leading to weight increase, all other things being equal. There are several ways that one person's gut bacteria can be passed to another. Here is one slightly unnerving one [taken from a book about everyday science] Flushing a water based toilet generates a fine aerosol containing lots of things you would rather not think about that can take over a day to disperse, giving opportunity for expelled bacteria to be reingested. Closing the lid while flushing does not remove the problem. Another take on the matter is conjured up by the amusing sub-heading in the article: "Imagine being able to eat exactly what you like and yet staying magically svelte. Introducing a new set of bugs into your digestive system might do the trick." (apologies if this information has already appeared - I searched but did not find it)
Lack of self-control has essentially nothing to do with it. With near-superhuman self-control an obese person might substitute external feedback (i.e. from a scale) for the internal signals and control his weight that way. But that means ignoring continuous gnawing hunger - forever.
You know, its funny. There are people like this - honestly like this - they have things like Pradr Willis syndrome and are incredibly rare. They're also unfortunate and tend to die at very young ages.
There are also people like you and me. Heck, I was a chubby kid; I was a fat adult. I was obese, and then some. I enjoyed food and took comfort in the fact that while I was "a bit overweight" at 240+ lbs (I'm 6' tall) I wasn't really any fatter than many of the people around me. Then one day I looked in the mirror and saw that my 38" pants were getting tight, and said, basically, "Hey, I'm fat."
I started to exercise, watched what I ate (a bit), and I've lost almost 80 lbs. I never thought I was obese, but anyone who can lose 80 lbs (without getting down to a "washboard abs" level of body fat, mind you, just a moderately healthy weight) is, by definition, obese. Or was, in my case.
For me, and for many, many other people I've met, its purely about self-control and body image. And its something that they, as I, can do something about. Yes, there are some people with severe medical issues that cause their obesity but if you're reading this and you're fat, chances are really really high that its because you're inactive and like eating, not that you've got some rare disorder. Sorry, but that's the truth.
Pity those who have uncontrollable ilnesses. Don't be an enabler for the vast majority who don't.
You're special forces then? That's great! I just love your olympics!
I watched a show on National Geographic about a year and a half ago. It was about the lobster of the Bay of Maine. These lobsters just want to eat and exist, but tend to get eaten themselves. The funny thing is, if they survive for a while, they can get large.
;) (Or do like one does with piss ants.)
So, among all this footage of teeny lobsters getting eaten by fish and whatnot, they had some shots of the mother of all lobsters - it was something like two and a half foot.
After seeing that, I decided that existing and eating as much as possible were valid things to do with one's life. I've eaten like insane since. The odd thing is, after gaining maybe ten pounds, I lost sixteen or so again. I cannot gain weight. I do not exercise. I sit on my ass in front of a computer - coding - most days. According to various sources, I have a body like a god.
Moral of the story: Find your own high ground. Never let people like the parent piss on you - piss right back.
Life is too short to live repressed. *You* can be that I-take-shit-from-nobody lobster of the Bay of Maine.
Pardon me, could you pass me the cheesie poofs?
All joking aside, obesity is a serious problem in the U.S.A. I have not yet read TFA, but I would like to make a few comments on diet.
I think that a lot of our dietary habbits are attributable to our local environments. We are at least swayed in judgement one way or another as to what is desirable vs. what is acceptable to eat. Working at a large pharmaceutical company, I am surrounded by the propaganda of the importance of eating well, and eating a well-balanced meal. This is in the company's best interest not to pay for human-self-inflicted conditions brought on by poor nutritional habits and lack of education. Even though the company outsources (BAD WORD) the cafeteria, the offerings are rather palatable and nutritious. The cafeteria's offerings are more palatable than many restaurants I have been to, and at a fraction of the price of the restaurants.
My cousin, a very nice, good hearted, and productive manager of a Bath & Body Works in a mall, is a young BBW! Through the years when I have visited on her lunch break (weekends), and even at home for dinner, she's always had FRIED AND PROCESSED FOOD! Cheesie Poofs! Chicken Nuggets! French Fries! Onion Rings! Curlycues! PIZZA! TATER TOTS! DEEP FRIED BREADED CHEESE STICKS! I've never seen her eat anything green, or freshly-picked vegetation, or food sprinkled with fresh herbs and spices (I grow my own - basil, rosemary, terragon, etc...). Not only is her obesity concerning to me, but she recently discovered that she has a cyst the size of a grapefruit on one of her ovaries and I am left wondering how much food of low nutritional value and possibly other bad things in fried foods contributed to this condition. I really think that much of what she chooses to eat today, even at home, was due to the availability, or rather, restrictive selection of MALL COURT FOOD!
Combined with certain employment pressures in the U.S.A., the fast food sector is thriving rather well due to the time and performance constraints of its customer base. If you think about it, these people are going to be NEEDING Liptor and other cholesterol-lowering drugs in the future. But hey, THAT'S GOOD FOR BUSINESS! THAT'S driving other sectors of our economy. Wrong as it may be, people will eat what they've been condition to eat, either through repeated exposure, peer pressure, time contraints, advertizing, or limited availability.
Incidentally, drinking ONE 8-ounce glass of red wine a day keeps heart disease, clogged arteries, and Liptior away. Drinking more than 8-ounces causes other serious problems.
You don't point a gun at someone you don't want to shoot.
You don't shoot someone you don't want to kill.
Do that for every meal, every day and you'll be healthy, at least until you actually spear the vendor and run away with his cart.
Anyone who whines about being modded down should be.
Here's the summary from the Center for Disease Controls' Department of Health and Human Services: Overweight and Obesity: Contributing Factors
We already know some diseases can help cause obesity. However, it is one factor among many and in many cases, it is not the primary factor.
How can a computer or a virus have obesity??
Are they running on a VM, for 64 bit and take tons of libs with them nowadays?
Any sufficiently advanced intelligence is indistinguishable from stupidity.
I wonder if there is a cattle version of the virus? Find a way to infect the whole herd some rancher can save a bundle on feed. I mean cows and chickens get fat even on a lean diet? And what about humans who live in places where food is expensive or hard to get? Finally a way to feed the world's staving chilren. But then I kind of doubt it.
Seltzer water is good too, if you really want something fizzy. The place I work has really nice water filter systems (far better than a Brita, but probably far more expensive) so I usually drink water at work. But at home, I've (tried) to switch all my soda over to flavored seltzers. 0 calories, still fizzy, with a mild taste.
As an added benefit, it's also cheaper than Coke. :)
You are in a maze of twisty little relative jumps, all alike.
Not to be a (total) dick, but I'm 6' 3" and 200 lbs and in college I was 185 lbs at the same height. According to the CDC BMI calculator, 5'8" and 197 lbs BMI = 30. This is the borderline between overweight and obese. If you are 5'8" and 198 lbs or more you are obese. This is not an insult, it is a diagnosis based on observed data.
Of course BMI doesn't apply as well to certain body types. If you are muscular and have low bodyfat (e.g. Arnold when he won Mr Olympia) you can forget about BMI.
How about another test. Grab the skin that sits on your abdomen, about an inch left of your navel, and fold the skin and the layer of fat underneath together so you have a double layer in your grip. If it is thicker than 1" you are overweight.
Just curious, what is it that you feel keeps you from reaching your ideal weight?
None of them can see the clouds; The polished wings don't care.
Nobody seems to be pointing out that if obesity were truly caused by a contagious virus, the non-obese should be avoiding contact with obese people as much as possible until the transmission vector is known.
:)
Not that I really believe that this virus is a primary cause. There are too many long-time married couples where one member is obese and the other is not, and normal married people are in way too close quarters to avoid passing a virus between each other by whatever the transmission vector is.
Wouldn't it be ironic if an obesity virus turned out to be sexually transmitted? I bet that would get the hormone-crazed teenagers to practice safe sex or abstain altogether!
- incorrect restatement of my reply to someone who asked: ...can I eat fat people... ... Mad Cow Disease...
- reworded so it appears I said:
Yeah, but you'll develop
- to which someone said:
What the hell, Mr. Insensitive? What are you trying to say?
Someone asked what would happen if they ate obese people.
I replied that eating people - could result in prions (protein-like substances) in your brain eating away at it, the human form of Mad Cow Disease.
To quote Willy Wonka:
Everything in this room is edible, children. Except the people, of course. Eating people is what we call cannibalism, children, and society frowns upon that.
I'd be far more concerned with the prions getting into your brain from eating people than I would be from any virii surviving your intestinal process and causing you to become fat, although a good scientific study would have to be done to see if this virus would actually survive such a process.
Personally, I think a few White House staffers could volunteer for the study, to help us prove whether or not this is a risk. We would have to exclude the President of course - there may be some question as to whether or not he already has eaten prion-infected meat given his behavior.
-- Tigger warning: This post may contain tiggers! --
because they have problems regulating their blood sugars, get improper responses from their intake of food indicating they're not full yet, and think that reducing caloric intake in one area means you can gorge in another.
But, studies show that the main contributing factor to overweight school children is whether or not they drink sodas in the first place. Those who drink non-carbonated beverages (fruit juices or water) frequently have fewer problems.
-- Tigger warning: This post may contain tiggers! --
Once you have done that, you must then subtract the chemical energy stored (sugars and fats, for the most part, but you can certainly build up bulk with a high protein diet). This is part of what contributes to your gain in weight, but it is not the whole picture. Cells are not dehydrated, they retain water. So, you've also got to add in the weight of all the extra water you're having to lug around. Seriously poor diets can lead to additional liquid retention.
All other chemical energy is excreted by the body. Since this cannot be quantified, in most cases, it is impossible to determine how small or how large a percentage of the total energy intake this actually is. The average is not necessarily that useful, as different genetic makeup will produce violently different results.
(It is doubtful an Eskimo would have the same metabolic rate as, say, someone from Western Samoa or the Steppes. It is absolutely guaranteed that their enzyme and hormone levels will differ, producing different levels of uptake and probably wildly different ratios on where the energy will go.)
That 5-15 lbs I mentioned? That is from using less energy, combined with extracting more and storing the sum of the differences. You could easily get 5-15 lbs out of that, over the course of a year. Hell, my weight varies by more than that in a typical year - mind you, that's because I only eat when I remember to.
Food is a complex issue and you need to observe the sum of all inputs AND the sum of all outputs in order to build a comprehensive picture. The inputs alone won't do.
HOWEVER, once you consider the problem as a whole, weight should not be a significant problem for anyone - virus or no - because you can adjust the variables accordingly. For this reason, I go back to my original statement. The majority of people who are obese are either food addicts or slobs. Anyone else (with any sense) would have adjusted things long before obesity became a possibility. (In the case of hypothyroidism, by taking medicines to regulate thyroid production.)
It's a small world and it smells funny; I'd buy another if it wasn't for the money; Take back what I paid (SoM)
or sitting on yoru ass all day at work, or in your moms basement posting to slashdot and criticising all walks of life. >
2000 claories for 2L? You must have pulled that figure out of your arse. According to this site coke has 42 calories per 100ml which equals 840 calories for 2L (admittedly that figure could be different in different countries, but not by an order of magnatude). It's still a lot of calories, but your calculations are well off.
I stopped drinking regular Coke or Pepsi ages ago, not because of the calories in it (I don't need to lose weight,) but just that it fucked up my blood sugar levels, sometimes drinking it did give me more energy, but it could also make me tired and lethargic. Plus the sugar wasn't doing my teeth any good.
I'll agree that the theme centered in this article is intriguing. As someone who has struggled w/ weight issues for the majority of his Adult life, I can tell you that its not easy, but it is possible, to lose weight. However, contributing factors like this potential Viral candidate, various metabolic conditions, etc, are potentially positive in the overall fight on obesity.
The other aspect that many people fail to realize is this. Recently my skinny friend pointed out that overeating was an addiction, just like his smoking habits. One could quit and it was simply a matter of willpower, or mind over matter. Having successfully quit smoking for 6 months now, I personally can tell you that quitting smoking and overeating are not one in the same, and the overeating addiction is an entirely different animal for one simple reason.
You do not need to smoke cigarettes/drink alcohol/snort a line/shoot up EVERY DAY in a less amount to continue to live. You do, however, have to keep eating.
"They say we're in the middle of an obesity epidemic.
An epidemic like it's polio. Like we'll be telling our grand kids about it one day.
The Great Obesity Epidemic of 2004.
'How'd you get through it grandpa?'
'Oh, it was horrible Johnny, there was cheesecake and pork chops everywhere.'"
-I like my women like I like my coffee - tied up in a sack and brought to me by Juan Valdez.
Seriously, I do accept that there are food addicts whose brain chemistry has (for whatever reason) become just as altered as a heroin addict's. They are not at fault for having the condition, but I would agree that it is their responsibility to not feed that addiction and to make such adjustments as are necessary to prevent it being a problem.
I completely agree that people don't exercise enough. I've seen way too many people drive to pick up the post...
However, compared to 98% of people in America, I'm probably a fitness freak. That's scary. That's more than scary.
I don't believe McDonald's should be sued for serving fat with added carbohydrate molecules (except maybe for claiming that it's food). Maybe it would be more effective if health insurance and/or health care providers quit covering people who wilfully abuse their bodies. Resources are limited, may as well use them wisely.
It's a small world and it smells funny; I'd buy another if it wasn't for the money; Take back what I paid (SoM)
Comment removed based on user account deletion
What I find dubious about this theory is that eating rubbish is expensive. You pretty much get what you pay for in calories at McDonalds for example. I have lunch there about once a week and usually get 2 McChickens. This is about 740 cals (kC), about 32g total fat according to the McD website. I chase it down with a big bottle of water. Yum. But all around me are people ordering megameals with large fries, soda, etc, and paying $6 - $7. (These are San Francisco prices.) Even though my McChickens are on "sale" for $1, "list price" for them is under $2.
Same with KFC. I had an uncontollable urge to eat at KFC and found some coupons in the newspaper. Sheesh, a bucket of chicken is like $16 without the coupons.
Meanwhile, there are a lot of skinny, healthy, people running around in other parts of the world subsisting on nearly-vegetarian, nearly-protein complete beans and rice diets, or some other vegetarian variation, that costs pennies a day. Americans could eat that way too if we wanted, for maybe $1 or $2 per day not counting fuel costs. Good lettuce is less than two dollars a head still, root veggies like carrots and onions calorie for calorie cheaper still. So I just don't buy the good food is too expensive theory.
So I can't really justify the "poor people eat badly" theory. I don't think their diet is any worse than anyone else's. They very likely *do* have reduced access to health care, and when you have 9 kids or are working 3 subsistence jobs at WalMart and spending a lot of your time stuck in traffic commuting between your jobs you certainly aren't going to have time to visit the health club each day.
Give a man a fish and you have fed him for today. Teach a man to fish, and he'll say "WHERE'S MY FISH, YOU IDIOT?"
Your solution, like so many others is specifically reliant on you being the only one that does it. I I was the only person in the country that threw garbage out my car window, the country would be a fairly pristine place. If I was the only person burning garbage in my back yard, there would be no problem. If I was the only one driving and using electricity, our air would be clean. The problem is that once these things become common, they start to break down. Most parts of the US (and I suspect most 1st world countries) could not handle the influx of all commuters moving to within walking distance of their work. I have been to many client sites that did not have ANY housing withing walking distance, much less enough to handle their employee load.
If your suggestion is that we should just compleatly restructure our social/economic system to handle living and working within walking distance of each other, you might want to start someplace more realistic than tell people "just move closer". Beside, I personlly like the fact that I don't have to sell my home and move just because I changed jobs.
but those "anti-obsesity" drugs work by causing people to eat less. They're either appetite suppressors, or "fat blockers" (which ultimately force people to eat less fat, since eating fat when you eat a fat blocking drug tends to cause nasty oily diarrhea). So in the end, the people on these drugs _are_ eating less. The drug just aids or enforces self control, just like gastric bypass operations. So these people do end up eating less, just like regular diet & excercise people do, except they end up also making pharmaceutical companies rich in the process, and suffers nasty side effects if they gobble certain foods while still taking the drugs.
I suspect I might be a bit late for most people to see this, but has anyone thought about the possible effects of this on discrimination. Fat people tend to be socially stigmatized. If a virus is a likely cause for this, then wouldn't this provide a logical reason for discrimination. For instance, if you thought kissing someone who is fat might get you fat (or fatter), would you risk it? Would you at least have second thoughts?
When things develop normally, thin people stay thin, and fat people become fatter.
:)!
When a crisis comes, thin people die out of hunger, and fat people just become thin.
Respect fat people: they are our future
Yes and no. Basically, all carbohydrates becomes glucose with some extra stuff like vitamins and minerals thrown in. So purely bulkwise a potato is equivalent to eating the same mass in sugar. The difference between eating a potato in the U.S. versus a 3rd world country is that our food is cleaner. Not a lot of soil bacteria survives our food processing. The reason the person in the 3rd world country doesn't get fat is that the soil bacteria converts the sugar to lactic acid, that aids in digestion(humans have weak stomach acid) and is readily absorbed. The liver then converts it back to sugar as needed(pyruvate cycle), thus avoiding the problems that high insulin causes(Atkins). Look-up ogi, sour porridge, or kimchee.
If your main liquid source is soda, you are probably drinking more like 2L of soda a day. I have noticed at work that many people sit in their cube all day with a cup of soda/coffee and just keep sipping at it all day long not realizing how much they are actually consuming.
i have noticed over the years that fat people can make other people fat just by keeping them as friends. i had a old girlfriend that gained about 20lbs after moving in with some rather large ladies. i saw the early stages and notied my theory to a few of my friends. they got a kick out of it. nothing personal. just something i noticed.
getting analy penetrated is not my idea of a good friday
The problem is that eat well and exercise to get skinny has been pretty well debunked by huge portions of the population. If it was really that easy, most people would be skinny. What we see happen over and over again is that people who are already skinny exercise, and claim it is the exercies. People who are fat exercise, and the people who are skinny claim they don't exercise enough. The same happens for what is currently considered "healthy" eating.
If the vast majority of people didn't have personal experience (either with their own attempt at weightloss, or people they know) disproving the "eat well and exercise" myth, you might see different mod results. I have had this debate with people in person many times, and have frequently been willing to put my money where my mouth is. I have frequently offered bets ranging from $500 to $5000 to "eat well and exercise" folks that I can easily lose 20 pounds in 2 months eat primarily Jack-in-the-Box Ultimate Cheesburgers, and doing no extra exercise. None have been willing to put their money where their mouth is. (I don't put you the money-mouth category, as you need to be local to monitor that kind of a bet)
For one Big Mac you can get about 4 to 5 kg of Apples (which are equally fast food) where I live.
Bananas, Oranges, etc. are similarily cheap, some exotic stuff like Mangos might be equally expensive as fast food.
And it's logic, too. To feed a cow for years has to be more expensive than just harvest something.
The only place I've ever seen such a concentration of people so grotesquely obese is casinos.
Howdy,
,"Just reduce the calories to less than you need a day," not matter what you say.
I normally wouldn't post on this type of topic but this story had several people wanting to meet the skinny people who are suddenly becoming fat or people who with no changes in diet or lifestyle suddenly start gaining weight. Well I am one of those people. I went from 185 to 300 in about 2.5 years. What made it more odd is that since I have a partner I had someone else's food consumption and exercise pattern to compare mine to. My partner is 5'4 I am 6'2. We both have the same breakfast. One bowl of cereal usually of Life or Frosted Shredded Mini-Wheat with soy milk. He works in office and I work at home. I move around while working than he does because I take care of the house and yard. At work he eats fast food or a homemade ham or turkey sandwich for lunch, more often that not it is fast food. I have one Peanut Butter and Jelly sandwich for lunch always. We both eat the exact same portions for dinner every night. I say this for a fact because we started watching this about 2 years ago to confirm it. We both started exercising some time ago and we coordinate that too, we ride several miles on weekends and I lift weights. Now why do I point this all out. Well my partner is thin as a rail 150 and I am getting heavier by the day despite exercise and a healthy diet. What is more odd is that on occasion he has had asthma like symptoms and gotten heavier for a few months then he seems to overcome it and he looses weight again. It is as if something tries to take hold of him and fails. We did go to the doctor. The doctor gave him an inhaler and told me that I must be over eating and should diet and exercise more. As I said we already do this but they seem to think I am liar. They never say this but you see the incredulity in their eyes and they always say
What amazes me more is that this is not the first time that I have gone up and down by hundreds of pounds. Twice now in my life it has happend. When I was a teen I suddenly went from normal to 350 and then it reversed. At the time I had become slightly more active, but in looking back at it now I realize that the correlation was really not there. I was only slightly less active when I was heavy and was moving 170 more pounds to boot. So now I wonder if the doctors are not just biased and since we have gone to the trouble of proving something is odd I have lost faith in them as well. How is it that I having nearly twice the body mass of my partner I am gaining weight on a diet that is less that his? How is that we both exercise exactly the same way yet I, with nearly twice the mass who should be burning much more energy, am not losing wieght? Why do I get this strange cough once and awhile that comes and goes but is never strong enough to register as being sick is it related to his Asthma?
When they say diet and exercise more I get sick yet we do it still even though we both have proof that it is not directly correlated to our weight. What I have found is that exercise will keep me fit and make my weight gain slower but it does not stop it nor does lack of it appear to start it or even speed it up much. I know this because have tried experiments consciously like eating too much, heavy duty exercise, or extreme diets. What I find is that I can slightly sway it but never stop it. The only way I seem to be able to lose weight is to eat below 800 calories a day, now that is insanely low to the point that I feel constant hunger pain but I tried. Regardless, it still begs the question why does the opposite of eating 4000 calories have so little effect the other way for me and why is my partner thin when we match everything and on some days he is eating more? Shoot based on what we have seen I should be eating at Taco Bell, given how much thinner he is verses my one Peanut Butter and Jelly Sandwich.
So tell me what exactly am I supposed to do, because I tried and still do do it their way even though I get to stare at proof they are fools every day now?
AlricSca
Why is this even on /.? This is MANUFACTURED NEWS! What better way to belittle all those ugly, fat people than to tell them "You'll never be beautiful." "You'll never be happy unless you conform." "You're stature is the result of a disease." The only thing they haven't offered is volutary death by firing squad.
:-)
Yeah, they would actually offer that as a "cure for obesity and uglyness".
Don't believe the hype!
If anything, I like a moderately chubby girl. It means that they eat well, and that the best way to this womans heart is through her stomach. Give me a fat chick and let me kiss her ever so sweetly!
The Rapture is NOT an exit strategy.
So, what they're saying is that there is a virus that either reduces the energy consumption of the human body or increases the efficiency of the matter-fat transformation? As for the last few million years this virus would have been a lifesaver, how come not everyone has it? These "problems" seem to be quite helpful for survival in the event of a harsh winter.
Quarantine all fat people before it spreads any further.
| Ceci n'est pas une pipe.
*Television* ... I cut the cable for a year and a half and lost 100 pounds. So I guess that must be the virus.
-R
MSG occurs naturally in tomatoes.
Bullshit... a 325ml can of Coke contains about 110 calories, give or take (assuming, of course, that the nutritional information on the side of the can isn't somehow fabricated). So, assuming my math is correct, that's about 700 calories for a 2L bottle.
I am always amused at the smugness of skinny people who mouth platitudes like "Eat less and exercise more." As others have pointed out, our biology is incredibly difficult to fight. If you don't believe me, try to stop masturbating and having sex for a few months and see how your body feels about that. And the urge to eat is WAY more strong than the sex drive.
So a can a day is only 10 pounds of fat a year... Not too bad.
Didn't Microsoft patent FAT, recently? I wonder... It would take some doing to get the spin right - people can be stupid at times, but that would be pushing it. Maybe, though... Just maybe...
It's a small world and it smells funny; I'd buy another if it wasn't for the money; Take back what I paid (SoM)
How do you go about making msg? If you had to do it in your kitchen, would you even bother?
It's not that hard.. glutamate is naturally present in many foods such as parmesan cheese, asparagus, peas, and tomatoes, and monosodium glutamate (MSG) is simply a form of glutamate that's easy to package and cook with. According to Wikipedia, MSG was first discovered in crystals left behind after evaporating kombu broth, which is a common Japanese soup stock made by heating seaweed in water. Making MSG in your own kitchen is probably easier than making baking soda, sugar, table salt, and many other basic ingredients.
Visual IRC: Fast. Powerful. Free.
HIV/AIDS research funding must be going down - disappearing? So its necessary for another "Bogeyman"?
bogeyman |?bo?g??man; ?b?-| (also boogeyman, bogyman) noun ( pl. -men) (usu. the bogeyman) an imaginary evil spirit, referred to typically to frighten children
After 25 years and billions of dollars - cancer caused by viruses researchers - didn't find one virus that causes cancer - so... the free lunch ended - tax grants from the NIH stopped
The same week the free lunch ended for virus=cancer researchers, by coincidence, the same researchers decided that HIV exists and causes AIDS! And the next new free lunch avalanche of tax money from the NIH began
So is the free lunch over for HIV=AIDS researchers? And time for those same researchers to move over to the Virus=Fat avalanche?
An equally nice hypothesis, but if you actually didn't compare apples and oranges or to wit apples and burgers it might be a little more realistic.
Try purchasing bread which isn't laden with salt and/or sugar, fresh lettuce which isn't covered in pesticides and chlorine, fresh tomato, lean ground mince which isn't adulterated with water or other supplements, etc. and you'll quickly find that the couple of $ it costs for a burger is quickly outweighed by the cost of lean healthy meat alone.
But you are right, feeding a cow/fish/prawn/basically any animal for it's lifetime is down right expensive. It usually takes several times the final weight of the animal in feed to get it there, so to make it cost effective the lifespan (from birth to table) required is reduced by various means or the product is mixed with other fillers and preservatives before appearing on shelves or in delis. At which point, how healthy much of it is is drawn into question.
It's the nature of the business that the healthy option will be more expensive than the unhealthy alternative unless legislation or tariffs are put in place to balance it for the good of the people. The reason why it is usually unhealthy in the first place is because it is cheaper to substitute the real healthy product with preservatives, salt, sugar, etc. for flavour. If it wasn't so commercially appealing to continue with such widespread substitution you wouldn't need foods loaded with fat, start substitutes, salt and sugar just to give it flavour.
Glenn
The Smrt way to trade CFDs on the ASX
Lack of self-control has essentially nothing to do with it. With near-superhuman self-control an obese person might substitute external feedback (i.e. from a scale) for the internal signals and control his weight that way. But that means ignoring continuous gnawing hunger - forever.
Interesting you say that. Hunger can be just the opposite. When I was losing 100 pounds, hunger was my success signal. If I was hungry, I was losing weight. If I was full, I was getting fatter. When I started to get weak from hunger, I'd eat. (At least ideally. Sometimes I'd eat earlier or too much, which could be a small setback.) You get used to a little mild hunger. It can be a good feeling, like the soreness you get after exercising. And, wow, does it ever make your food taste good.
STOP WATCHING TV
Why do you care what the mass media have to entertain you with? Just be Happy!
spaz out . cheer up . do the shit you've always wanna done . be creative . localize yourself . don't worry . don't fear . just be excellent . make the world better
also the fact that food lifts mood, the sugars created from food help boost 5-htp levels which is then metabolised into seratonin, or soemthign along those lines. see Comfort Eating and given the fact that we lead more sedantry lifestyles, and the rates of depression and other mood disorders is rising, increases in stress or whatever, alot of people inadvertadely head for the comforting junk food.
If your neighbours roof is flying past your window, you know it's cyclone season.
The parent post is absolutely wrong -- how did this get modded up to a 5? I'd like to point out for everyone who reads this thread that *** there are a grand total of 0 cases of someone ever starving to death and being fat at the end*** Nada. Zip. Zero. It doesn't ever happen. If you don't consume calories, you will lose weight -- that's a truth that has existed since the beginning of humanity and it will continue until the end.
Studies like this only further the "not my fault" attitude, and result in bonehead comments like the parent post. Some people may have a (genetic/virial/etc) disposition to being overweight, but eat right and exercise and you WILL lose weight. End of story.
-Fatty
Assuming that you didn't metabolize those 110 calories, you're absolutely right.
So after ingesting all those calories, your body still keeps asking for the vitamins, etc., that it really needs.
Here, here!
You know, it's amazing the number of people I come across that swear that lettuce is fattening. "All I eat for dinner is lettuce, and I still put on weight!". But these people never tell you about the lollies and candy bars that they sneak in when people aren't looking.
Heh... but I guess, at the end of the day, if having some will-power was easy then everybody would be doing it.
You can make simple & good tasting Lemonade or Ginger ale with Lemons, yeast, sugar, water, flavorings (i.e. Ginger), and a closed container.
Trust me, wish I could do that but working out while I was young and pushing my body before it was ready was my downfall. I am only 23 and already suffer from minor arthritis, constant muscle pain, and tendonitis. To all those thinking about excercising: More power to you but make sure your body is ready to receive such punishment.
Oh, I agree. At least, I do now. That's why I had that in quotes. I was obese, no question about it.
You're special forces then? That's great! I just love your olympics!
It looks like the third world has found a cure for this virus.
I can't believe this information. Why then aren't there any fat kids in countries where famine is rife, go and spread the fat virus over there and solve the world's problems.
This reminds me of how I "caught" 20 extra pounds form my friend who was a wonderful cook. Oh "weight" it was just me going through a 12 pack of soda every 4 days.
Stop intellectual property from infringing on me
Seems to me that I'm seeing a lot of emotional investment in the idea of diets, and obesity being caused by weak will and gluttony. Evidence for the defense: all the ridicule and insults.
It's obviously true that if you reduce calorie intake below calorie burn, a person will get thin. Obvious, but it's really beside the point!
The core problem of obesity is this: there seems to be some body-fat level which humans automatically aim for. Eat more, and you'll lose your hunger and get fidgety to burn the energy off. Eat less, and you're staring down millennia of evolution which is screaming EAT NOW OR DIE. (I've heard this mechanism called a "lipostat".) Evidentially, it's a rare human who can override that. It's frustrating not to be under rational control, but it's a fact. Willpower diets fail for the same reason as suicide by breath-holding.
In obesity, this "lipostat" fails and either wedges into "gotta eat" mode, or at least drifts upwards by increments.
This could validly be described as a body mechanism failure, and it could quite plausibly be caused by a virus.
the county where
- man doesn't evolve
- Saddam bombed the twin towers
- fries are free
- CO2 isn't a greenhouse gas
- being fat is a contagious disease
You are completely correct, but an even more important factor is the fact that our body was designed to move. Run after prey and run away from predators. Run after girls, run away from their fathers.
Even more than having abundant access to (at times horrible) food this is the main cause we are getting fat. It is interesting to watch the US, if the original article was correct, people in New York are to a degree immune to the "virus". They are half the size of people in the Mid-West. Is this because the "virus" hasn't hit New York yet, or may it have something to do with the fact that traffic in New York makes a car pretty useless, therefore you take public transportation, which forces you to walk a bit more.
Oh, and my pet peeve... The handicapped people. It is actually their fault. They have been lobbying for years and years that they need equal access to the 4th floor. Perhaps they do, but the lobbying means that all buildings now have elevators and no stairs. If I use the stairs to walk down from my office, the fire alarm goes off. The stairwell door can not be opened from the outside, so walking up three floors is not an option. The elevator is my only way up. It's all the fault of the handicapped people!
That I am too lazy to go to the gym to compensate is not relevant, I shouldn't have to pay for my gym membership... even though I do, I shouldn't have to go. The fact that just about anything you can buy that is edible in the US has high fructose corn syrup in it is also not too relevant... I mean, if I eat a ton of sugar a year, I would have lost it all if it hadn't been for the handicapped people!
And to the people who had their humor glands zapped by sugar, the part about the handicapped people is intended as humor and should not be taken as a dig against people in wheelchairs.
Your right, it doesnt appeal to me. Why? Because i quite like fruit and vegetables. I like bananas, apples, oranges, pineapple, kiwi fruit, etc. I love the stry fry's i cook with peppers, sweetcorn, mushrooms, pak choi, spring onions and whatever else i throw in.
I dont have a problem with pizza's and I'm quite happy to do the english version of pizza & coke on a friday night (10 pints, a curry and a kebab for those interested).
But I wouldnt want to do it every day, as it would get quite boring, when there is some much nice food to try.
But, along came TV Dinners, Bird's Eye and Morton. Merita chocolate cupcakes total lard delicious, and I began getting fatter & fatter til at 12 years of age my stomach measured 36 inches girth. Mom only had me and her Mom had 18, so she was getting razzed about not having more kids. Her insecurity got me some good decent nutritious meals which, if I finished off the plate at EIGHT O'CLOCK AT NIGHT RIGHT BEFORE BEDTIME... I WOULD OF COURSE RECIEVE THE PAVLOVIAN CHOCOLATE CUPCAKES.
After making all those adipose fatcells they've stayed with me thanks to Dad's heavy family genes. Condemned for life.
I've got this Immune System screwed up now so I guess these "fat viruses" must be at home inside me, well protected and thriving. Then there's this thing, blood condition, called CR-P (Creative Reactive Protein). Oh heck, I've got gobs of willpower but if I try to diet the CR-P concentrates in my blood. It can kill me in 2 hours time. I'm not supposed to even THINK about dieting unless done in a hospital bed with nurses checking my blood every 2 hours.
My thyroid? WHAT thyroid. The doctor used radiation to burn it out because I had a rare genetic disorder where it PUMPED LOTS OF HORMONE that was chemically wrong for me. In other words, I had a strong thyroid gland pumping a poison into me all day long. hahaha I shouldn't even be here alive today. I'm 54YO now. But you know, on top of all the illnesses and all, the one thing that really gets tiresome is hearing people who aren't ill try to make being FAT into a MORAL ISSUE.
About nurses, there's a reason why their rear ends (derrieres) get really large. I read about it like 6 years ago and since then I wondered why or how the information disappeared so quickly. Nurses are exposed to some chemical that's used in hospitals that causes their butt to grow real large. I had thought long ago that nurses should get some kind of class action lawsuit going against the hospitals or doctors... But I think the information was hushed and shooed to shut up before the nurses heard about it. I've got a nurse living nearby, a former nurse, and she struggles around with her big cabosse to work standing on a hard floor at Wal-Mart.
My wife and I put our son into daycare at 3 months. After maybe two months, we changed his formula intake..."
bottle-feeding linked to obesity in adults
Set your phasers on "funky"!
Also, my pet theory is that humans are designed to be social eaters (sharing the kill, the harvest, etc). Company makes foods better. Ever smell a McDonald's burger that smells as good as a backyard barbecue one? Now, however, a lot of people wolf down their food by themselves in the car, or while working. They don't stop to pay attention to it, and they also frequently ingest several hundred calories of soda while eating.
I agree. These days eating can be more of a chore in our busy lifestyles. We cram in a quick lunch at our desks soley in order to keep hunger at bay so we can carry on working. Having said that, I believe this is mainly a US/UK issue as in France, for example, companies often allow for 2 hour lunch breaks for the staff. Everything closes (including supermarkets) at lunchtime for a good hour or two. It's no good for the demands of the fussy consumer and it's a far cry from the 24 hour service we're all getting used to, but if you look around at the general french public, you'll find that they are much healthier (at least slimmer) than their UK/US counterparts.
http://www.frenchgeek.com/
Uhmmm...not to be all PC or anything, but I AM fat and there is nothing wrong with me. Hear, hear.
Being obese is bad for you, no doubt about it. Being too thin is equally bad for you. With so much talk of the obesity epidemic and what a threat this is (quite rightly). Has naturally caused a disapproval of all fat people, which is bad even worse, skinny people are seen as role models. There is nothing wrong with being lean but I suspect many people don't realise the danger of being too thin is just as bad. Hey I have a BMI (very blunt instrument I know) of 20.5 i.e. normal. Women see me and ask why I'm so thin and how I do it, they want to know my secret. I think I must have the skinny virus.
I'm trying to put on a few pounds, both fat and muscle to be healthier. I really should get away from the 10+ hours in front of the computer and TV and do some exercise.
Obsessing over food is unhealthy, more exercise is the way to go. In fact for many who are obese I think exercise will give them far better results then trying not to cave in to their desire.
Drunken
Well, duh...the body will behave as it always has: under the assumption that while food might be plentiful now, it's not likely to be plentiful for long, so better stock up now while it can.
And thus, obesity.
And the reason obesity is so difficult to deal with, and why sustained weight loss has such a lousy track record (95%+ failure rate), is simple: to fight obesity, you have to fight your own body's instinctive drive to "save up for a rainy day".
Consumption is not the reason for obesity. It's a factor. There's plenty of food for everyone in North America. Why isn't every single person, based on your theory, obese? The answer is hardly as simple as you say it is. I'm sure it's comfort to those struggling with their weight to know that their condition is the result of evolution, but it certainly won't help them lose the weight.
Sustained weight loss has a 95% failure rate? Bold, and likely untrue, but assuming for a moment that it's valid, that's 95% of who? Obese people? People who diet? Of the earth's population? There are many, many people who do not need to lose weight, and yet live in these lands of plenty. How do you explain them? Surely this insurmounable instinct has a hold on them too?
The answer is no where near as simple as you make it out to be. Obesety exists for a variety of reasons - but the most prevalent one, the one that strikes the majority of people is gluttony, paired with laziness.
You find my comment...not a joke?
:-)
I don't actually remember designing the placement of my windpipe.
Actually lots of non-dieting overweight people are malnourished. A steady diet of Ho-Ho's and what not does not make for very good nutrition.
There are a couple of issues with weight gain. First is metabolism. Some people just don't use/burn food as fast as others. That can just be the way they are or aggravated by something like Thyroid disease.
The second is more psychological where some people just don't feel full. This can be a simple brain trigger that's missing or bad eating habbits like eating too fast or eating in front of the TV/other distraction.
Finally, the biggest contributor is life style. We're busy people and we don't always take the time to cook. Prepared foods are just loaded with lots of stuff that we don't need. Portions are also usually much larger than necessary. Combine that with late dinners and not enough time to exercise and we're all going to put on a few pounds.
--- I wish I could hear the soundtrack to my life. That way I'd know when to duck.
Of course if you want everything to be perfect, it may be expensive.
However, normal, healthy "mainstream" food is available (like apples, oranges, bananas, carrots, etc.) for cheap. Yeah some of those may not be perfect and contain pesticides or whatever, but it's still a lot better than most fast food. (However the "pesticide" argument is usually moot anyway as they go away when you wash it with water)
Now if you create a "good enough - common sense" healthy diet (which may still contain some fast-food, but not entirely) you will be much more healthy and still save money.
When it comes to drinking, the difference is even more clear: A very healthy drink is actually water and it's also the cheapest. You really don't want to claim that anybody has to drink coke because he can't afford water, do you?
Just being skeptical here...
Look, it's the spend-happy, fat Americans. We need to make $$. We need a drug. We need a problem. We need a virus.
Ca-ching!
I found a lot of Parisians were thin, but I attributed that to the doggie-doo dodging and the fact that the metro is like a high-intensity step aerobics course :)
-WS
An operating system should be like a light switch... simple, effective, easy to use, and designed for everyone.
This is true! The virus was found and dissected. Scientists say it's the biggest virus known to mankind. Its inner guts reveal layers of organic substance, such as pickles, a menbrane of iradiated shit called patty and some goo. Its external shell consists of 2 demi-spheres of sesame seed buns. The virus is so big and contagious that it's almost funny. For this reason, a clown christened it "Le big mac".
I am about 6 foot tall and when i was as old as 24, I weighed 128 pounds. I could not afford food. When I turned 24, I found a job as a chef and started to eat. I weighed around 160 during that job and it felt good. At 30, with a reasonable job with reasonable pay, I started gaining weight. I maxed out at 238 fully clothed. 238 pounds is much more comfortable than 128 pounds. While I am mildly interested in losing some weight, I do not ever want to go below 190 again. I have no issue with being called overweight. You, nor anyone else, can make me feel guilty about being the weight that I am at. (not to imply that you are actually trying to make me feel guilty)
strike
"Someone needs to talk to the tree of liberty about its ghoulish drinking problem." by ohnocitizen
Okay, since all the UN and USAID workers are well known to be mostly ineffective and sometimes just lining their own pockets, this gives us a new solution to world hunger. We'll just send some fat Americans over to countries with hunger problems to infect the local populace. Then they'll all get fat, and they can just live off their own fat! WOW! WHAT A GREAT DISCOVERY!
Obesity comes from either:
1) Incorrect diet. Which can be plain poor food value, or incorrect for your particular body's need.
2) Body not working properly in terms of extracting nutrients. Which can be due to bad diet or body not functioning properly.
If you eat and drink lots of anything and create an imbalance, the body may not be able to correct it and end up with a shortage of something. This can cause the body to hang on to fat for example. Sugar does this. Or try drinking 200 cups of coffee, and I'm sure you'll die by an overdose.
Todays American diet is quite unhealthy. Decades of sub par food in the culture have caused great imbalances in the body. Like these popular sugar highs.
Sugar does not give any energy, it rapidly burns up the energy you do have left and gives the sensation of having given energy. It's similar to pouring gasoline on a fire. It now burns very rapidly but soon dies.
Unfortunately processed sugar is very unhealthy, and is a big worldwide reason for obesity.
As is typical here in the US, money interests override health education. The American dream is failing due to poor values and a desire for a quick fix. We bought into the idea that a simple pill can handle whatever is wrong. Drug manufacturers like us to think so. We are told that we have chemical unbalance in our brains, which is making us do bad things. Fortunately this is FUD to lower the desire for self education and responsibility, and subsequent realization of what is and isn't good for us.
We have lost control of our country and ourselves to a small group of people, due to normal lazyness and idea that a quick fix is the way to go. Not realizing the cost of that quick fix.
Viruses that carry some obesity germ is nonsense as far as I'm concerned. What it could do is mess up the bodily functions so that obesity occurs as a result. A good question would be, what kind of diet does these researchers have? Do they even take poor diet into consideration. Or do they have a mental blank as a result of not even taking that into consideration?
Whenever someone is saying that you are not responsible, and you agree - you become nothing but a victim. And life will go even worse. We need to realize that each one of us are responsible for our own condition. Blame, shame and regret is a one way ticket to nowhere. Or in this case - obesity.
Its funny - and please don't take this personally, since its about me but was triggered by your email - when I was at my heaviest I felt that I had probably 20 or so pounds to lose. Certainly no more than 30. As I started to lose weight, I would look at myself in the mirror and try to figure out how much was fat and how much was "frame" (after all, I had convinced myself that I was large framed). I figured that 200 lbs would be about right.
The same thing happened when I got to 200. I was amazed that I still didn't feel "fit" and figured that I had maybe 10-15 still to go! That was a revelation. Once I got to 180 things slowed down, but even at 165 I'm realizing that I have excess fat that's not helping anything. I'm happy with my weight; I wouldn't mind losing 5 more pounds, maybe converting some of it into muscle, but I'm certainly not fat by anyone's definition - I'm just not as toned as I like.
But your post just reminded me of that layering sequence of transitions I made, each time convinced that I was only a little overweight. As for you - well, as long as you're happy, that's the main thing. And 128 is certainly low enough to be unhealthy for many people. However, if you could feel the difference between 240 and 200 you might surprise yourself and find your mind changing. You might not. But I know that I did.
You're special forces then? That's great! I just love your olympics!
People eat until their body tells them to stop. "Gluttony" here simply means that their body doesn't tell them to stop until it's far too late.
This is why some people, even in the U.S., aren't obese -- some people have signals that tell them to stop eating early enough that they don't wind up ingesting excess calories.
It shouldn't be surprising that there are some people like that, because the scarcity of food obviously varied between geographic areas.
And yes, the entire obesity thing is actually quite complicated in detail. Among the complicating factors are how many fat cells someone has at birth, the types of foods they naturally gravitate towards, the availability of that food, their emotional state, etc. But the basic reason it occurs at all, and the reason it's so difficult to fight, is directly tied to the circumstances the human body has (in general, more or less) evolved to deal with.
As for "laziness", that too is a factor. "Laziness" here simply means that people don't get the same amount of exercise their ancestors did. That's not surprising, as it's one of the consequences of technology and automation.
If technology and automation actually gave people a larger amount of free time, perhaps more people would exercise for longer. Perhaps not. But regardless, technology hasn't brought such benefits for most people: they still have to spend the same amount of time (if not more!) working as their ancestors did, but the types of activities involved in "work" are vastly different thanks to that technology. Hence "laziness".
By the way, it should be noted that "laziness" is also a consequence of the evolutionary process mentioned previously. "Laziness" is the unwillingness to do any more work than is necessary. It causes the "lazy" person to not expend more energy than is necessary. When food is scarce, it should be obvious that "laziness" is very much a necessary survival characteristic -- someone who needlessly expends energy when food is scarce will not be as likely to survive as someone who doesn't.
You can believe that these things are all a concious choice if you like. That doesn't mean you're correct.
Use 'slashdot stuff' in the subject line in any email you send me if you want to get past the spam filter.
Why not decouple the pleasure you get from eating and the nutrients you need to stay alive? Maybe it's not a big deal for you because you don't like eating Pizza and burgers very much, but for those of us who like it, it would be nice to just make these two things mutually exclusive. It's more likely than not that in the next few decades we'll have this capability. We may choose in the future to not have the food we eat stored as fat. We would get nutrients through some sort of supplimentation or other means. It's been shown that a diet of 50 - 70% of the standard amount of calories adds years to the lives of mice and it's believed that this form of caloric restriction would add years to our lives as well. The problem is that most people don't like living on 1000 - 1400 calories a day for long periods of time. What if we could completely decouple eating from being nourished? This would add years to many of our lives and allow us to enjoy the standard 2000 calorie diets we're used to. Or, if we want, we could even choose to eat 3500 calorie diets. Overeating might not appeal to you, but I would imagine eating 1000 calories a day for years probably seems pretty unbarable. However, it's been demonstrated to be one of the most effective things you can do to incrase longevity. Should we not research ways to decouple these two distinct functions so that we can experience the pleasure of food while having an optimum nutritional intake? I ask, why the heck not?
No Sigs!
I went up to 220 and back down again to 190 before I arrived at 230 which is where I am at now. I say from experience that I do not want to go down below 190. I do not care if others label me as fat. I am not self concious and do not need anyone elses approval of my body. My wife and I are both happy. I have to admit though, once I started getting close to 240, I started feeling that my weight was getting uncomfortable. 190-230 is fine for me. :)
strike
"Someone needs to talk to the tree of liberty about its ghoulish drinking problem." by ohnocitizen
That's easy. Ninnle Linux is a little known Linux distro that seems to run better than anything else in whatever environment. It happens to be Linus Torvalds' distro of choice these days, and it's running on his own desktop. As we all know, Linus is anything but a 'ninnie'.