b)I think you are confused as to where the duress comes. It has nothing to do with someone forcing the customer to buy the software. They hold the software you already bought hostage until you click the EULA. You already paid for it--you own it, you don't have to agree to anything after. I think forcing a person to agree to a contract before they are alowed to use property they own should be considered duress, if it isn't already.
c)If a store has a policy requiring me to sue if there is anything wrong with a product I buy from them, I am not shopping there. Maybe you can go down to court for every little reason, but most people can't afford to waste the time and effort required.
What about roommates, neighbors, the guy down the street?
I have had shitty roommates who would bug the fuck out of me until I helped them with their computer. Every day, they'd have some stupid problem and if I helped them it would take four hours to do everything they wanted. When I was working the graveyard shift, I had a roommate like this who would wake me up. I was also going to school as well, so I got only a few hours sleep per day. Needless to say, I did very badly in both school and work. So you are saying I should do it anyway? Fuck that.
I have no obligation to them. Would you spend four hours every day for some bastard you didn't even like? It adds up. What if you know two or three of these people? Are you really going to spend 12 hours out of every day helping people with their computers without being paid? Some of us have lives. Some of us have jobs. Some of us have to sleep. Maybe you are a robot funded by some major university, so you don't have to worry about those things.
For the record, I bought my mother a WinXP computer about a month ago. So I don't know why you are going there, but she usually doesn't need much help as she usually only plays card games on it.
This is why there is so much interest in a Python compilier--compiliers are much faster than interpeters. There are some starting projects--such as psycho and Python 2 C Module Generator
Java and TCL have certainly had many more years and manpower to optimize thier implementations. I don't know much about Ruby. I'm sure in a few years, Python will improve too.
Scripting language just means it is interpeted. That is why python is slow. If they made a compiler for python, it would be much faster, though likely not as fast as C.
That is why they allow you to link with components in C. The critical time components can be written in C while the rest can stay Python, if you want. I think python is more useful for prototype design or just quick scripts. I agree it is slow, but it would be faster if someone made a compiler--I think someone did make a JIT one, but for one off things JITC is slow too. Some components don't need to be blazing fast, but an interpeter sucks with slowness.
So many editors switch tabs/spaces freely which creates problems with indentation syntax. Because of python and make, I have reverted to using e3 as an editor. I like that it is small and simple, but it does not have anything fancy like syntax highlighting. For programming syntax highlighting helps a lot. I used jed before and loved it, but it mucks with spaces and tabs, so python and make wouldn't work. Yeah, I think you can change the settings to make it work, but it is a huge pain in the ass.
Yes thanks but that doesn't always work. I do know some CSS and have books. I've tried it a few years ago, but had problems. I suppose I should try it again. There is always some attribute you forget or bugs or they do some javascript weirdness (like menus) and the modified CSS breaks the page. Trying to fix it doesn't always work or sometimes is impossible. I use the browser font and color settings, but they also have problems with bugs and such. In fact, mozilla and opera barely work with many sites.
It would be eaiser for everyone if web designers (and those who make standards) would just let the user and browser control their "experience" instead of trying to force things with javascript.
I suppose web designers think we need javascript. Some things seem to be missing--but I have to ask: what is the menu tag for? I would think it was originally intended for making menus. What happened to it? If this be the case, why didn't browsers implement it? It would be much better than javascript hacks...
Oh yeah, the MCSE webmasters are really going to stop using frontpage just because 0.01% of the company's customers decide to boycott. Yeah! Way to make a dent in the system.
Yeah, remember that if you ever drive through Utah on a Sunday. It's your fault for not knowing they don't do business that day. In fact, they should be allowed to make it illegal to do business on sunday because it suits their taste. Who cares if some gas statlion wants to supply to people on Sundays.
Once they pass that law, good luck finding a motel when your car runs out of gas. Oh yeah, since you are "homeless", the police will be harassing you too. I hope you like jail.
BTW, for some disabled people (not just the blind), traveling all the way to a retail outlet can be a huge burden. In fact, blindfold yourself and try to walk to the nearest store. Other problems can cause people to have difficulty using flash javascript crap sites. And the phone may not be an option either as their disability may cause problems in that area as well.
Of course, I suppose it is your option to make your site fuck up nearly everyone's web browser. I doubt everyone uses the exact same version of IE you do. If your site doesn't use web standards, then I'm sure you have plenty of problems with compatibility. The web wasn't designed for flash and javascript crap. Those are things web browsers and plugins tacked on later and they suck shit.
IANAL and the article is slashdotted so I couldn't read it, but I think they could argue an EULA on bought software was a blank contract (you don't see it before you buy the product) or you were forced to agree under duress--it doesn't allow you to use the product you paid for unless you click the EULA which you were not shown before you bought it.
So you are saying the computers at work have shit security that can easily be broken by a website? Ummm...yeah. I think pr0n sites are the least of your problems. They aren't the only places to get trojans, worms and viruses. At the very least, you should just cut your company off from the internet and save us all some trouble.
IANAL, but I would say a EULA is a blank contract. You buy the product, then take it home. To use the product you just paid for and they won't take it back, you are required to "sign" another contract[1] you didn't see before. It won't run the program you bought until you click "I agree." Isn't this duress?
[1]You already created a contractual agreement to own that copy of the software and the store gets the money. As I understand copyright law, you aren't allowed to redistribute more copies, but you are allowed do anything else with it.
I don't see why people think this demand on websites are so difficult. It is easier to leave out javascript, CSS and flash requirements than to put them in...unless the web developers have some sort of OCD disablility...with the way some sites/programs are made, I have to wonder. I'm not sure I completely agree with the ADA, but this reqirement will probably save companies money and make them more compatible with other browsers. Javascript and crap always breaks anyway. What works on IE6 may not on IE7 or Mozilla.
The origional html was designed to work on any type of display or human input/output device. Text to speech with braille keyboards should be no different. In fact, I have visual disturbances and various problems from a stroke, so when web developers use CSS to enforce a microscopic type, I often have serious problems reading the site. If they didn't change the font size with CSS, then I and many other people wouldn't have any problems at all. I was having problems with it before my stroke as well.
Why should they mess with it? Sometimes it has to be done to accomidate weird javascript menus and crap, but hacky shit like that shouldn't be in professional websites in the first place. They don't work half the time. That is why you'll see "only compatible with IE6.23 and no others. Make sure you upgrade to this specific version and no higher, or our site won't work and it's your fault." Whatever...I go to a different online store. They lose business and the stupid fucks don't know why. If you complain to them, they just respond: "you have to use IE, it is the bestest browser ever! Yay microsoft!" Fucking MCSEs.
The end user should be allowed to view the type a whatever size they are comfortable, web designers only do that because they are control freaks who think you must have a "user experience" and stupidly didn't set their frakking display resolution settings even though they upgraded to a 200 inch monitor and their computer thinks they have a 14' so type set to be a mm across will appear to be huge on their monitor. Someone with even a 19 inch or anyone who sets their display res settings correctly only sees little pixels where the text should be. Fucking MCSEs.
Mozilla and co are finally programming some options to enforce minimum text sizes, but it doesn't always work. There are similar problems with colors. Paperwhite displays burn into your retinas. The california solution is to make OSHA standards requiring sunglasses on your monitor so it won't blind people. The real option would be to use a dark background. You can't do that because quirks between many websites and browsers cause the text to be a similar color as the background.
I am just curious, but why would lugging in a desktop be a hit against you? What if you don't have a laptop, or the game works on your underpowered laptop but not your destop?
I told the judge that I tried installing the game, and it didnt play. I went online to update the game, and the updates crashed the computer. Wally World refuses to give me money back for a defective product.
This is the exact reason I don't like doing business with commercial software companies. They screw you every which way they can, and if their product doesn't work, they don't even give you a refund. At least with open source, you don't have to pay for it and may be able to fix what is broken...
Just try not to be greedy.
Yeah, I don't understand why people think they can sue for a million dollars for any minor violation. I've also seen plenty of small businesses go under because they thought they should be instant profit powerhouses, so they charge insane prices. When that happens, it never makes money for the business. The few people who walk in see the prices and run away.
I repeat DO NOT go down the route of arguing its "copyright violation"
This is where I would lose. I would probably use the term copyright infringement, and if the judge asked why, I'd say: "Theft is where you go down to the store and take something, copying things without the copyright owner's permission is copyright infringement. I'd rather not do either, but you people are making good arguements for it!"
They probably do that on purpose hoping you will just go buy another. The corporate drones think all "consumers" / "customers" are stupid--unfortunately many are, so the companies get away with it to a point. The people who get it end up shuffling between companies for a long time until they find one who doesn't rip them off. Then the good company changes the CEO, and they start doing shit. Cycle starts over again.
No joke, I was working as a temp in a mfg plant a few years ago. I was told if there was any defect in the product, place it in such a way so they could blame the customer when it came back. They really do it.
I am using Linux as a "desktop OS" and so are many others, so I don't understand what you are saying about linux "making it" as a desktop os. Many people use it that way. It wasn't designed to be, but there aren't any better alternatives.
Moms can use Linux. I had my mom using it for a while. Though she mostly uses the computer to play card games. For some reason she likes the WinXP version of spider, so she had me buy her a new computer. I think it didn't help that initially I had required a login (apparently passwords aren't mom friendly) and she didn't like dual booting--maybe I should've made Linux the default instead of Win95.
Yes, moms can't install Linux, but they can't install MS Windows or any programs either. At least mine can't.
Like I said, the linux kernel with a new userland could "fit the bill", but the system would be nonoptimal--it is designed for servers, not desktops. It would be better to create a new kernel made for desktops as well as a userland. The changes to the 2.6 kernel for better apparent performance may help, but they are ugly hacks. I don't see Linux or other systems based on Posix/Unix (like *bsd) as good options for a desktop os. You can make them work, but why not use a system designed to do what you use it for?
I think he was talking about the computer breaking all by itself or on a system update. I haven't seen linux do that, except when I "upgraded" to fvwm2.
Linux hardware compatiblilty problems have nothing to do with Linux or open source specifically, it is the microsoft monopoly and hardware manufacturers who won't release specs and don't make drivers for Linux and other non-ms OSes. With any computer you have to find hardware which works. You wouldn't buy something made for the Amiga and expect it just work with a MS windows computer, would you? You would be stupid if you did.
And the difficulty installing, well, what do you expect from a system modelled after Unix? The GNU/Linux system isn't really a desktop OS. It is designed to be admined by computer experts paid by the company to keep it running, not common people at their house. Maybe someone can make a desktop OS with the Linux kernel, and it may be easy to use, but the kernel will still be designed and optimized to be a server. That is the problem, and it seems no one with any technical skill is working on it.
No, they don't force me, they just whine and bitch and bug me until I fix their computer. I'm not the one whining here, its the shithead MS lusers who want free tech support for their broken computers. Apparently there are plenty of them on slashdot who don't want to lose their free tech support.
I don't care what people put on their damn computer, just don't bug me about it or cause me a bunch of problems.
"Stop the whining"? You people are the ones who whine all the time. I'm sick of it. Get a real computer and leave me alone.
It would be possible to stop a lot of problems online if we could come up with a secure way to link Internet-based accounts to individual people.
You mean like static ips and identd? Well, MS and dialup isps screwed that one. Then again sending a subpoena to the isp will at least give you the owner of the dialup account.
Damn, I almost came up with a legal requirement to force ISPs to give everyone static ips.
Maybe they should be given a piece of hardware which doesn't work with their favorite OS or the game consoles they have. Then yell at them when they tell you it doesn't work. (Why not, people do that to me all the time.) But, you can also give them the gift of knowledge: "Proprietary companies caused this problem. You support them and constantly tell me to use crap made by MS, the worst offender. So deal with it!"
Yeah, because everyone who knows anything about computers should be a slave to MS Win users and give their lives to "free" support. (It is not free for the person giving it.) At least once you set Linux, it usually stays that way, strange distro "configuratornermators" excepted.
Basicly: can 2+ million hits and ispell be wrong? ~$ ispell
@(#) International Ispell Version 3.2.06 08/01/01
word: basicly
ok
What are you doing on slashdot if you have never heard of IRC?/me is the command to show the user doing something: #>/me expecting a reply...
sowth expecting a reply...
Correcting someone with two strokes on minor variances of spelling and grammar is like telling a paraplegic to get up and walk out of his wheelchair.
What the hell does a discussion about China have to do with spelling and grammar? I'm sure you understood what I said, you are just being an ass.
There is not a two party system in the US. Two parties have just taken over the system. However, Libertarians don't look much better. Aren't they the people fronting for the crazy backwoods militias?
Slashdot Mirror
b)I think you are confused as to where the duress comes. It has nothing to do with someone forcing the customer to buy the software. They hold the software you already bought hostage until you click the EULA. You already paid for it--you own it, you don't have to agree to anything after. I think forcing a person to agree to a contract before they are alowed to use property they own should be considered duress, if it isn't already.
c)If a store has a policy requiring me to sue if there is anything wrong with a product I buy from them, I am not shopping there. Maybe you can go down to court for every little reason, but most people can't afford to waste the time and effort required.
What about roommates, neighbors, the guy down the street?
I have had shitty roommates who would bug the fuck out of me until I helped them with their computer. Every day, they'd have some stupid problem and if I helped them it would take four hours to do everything they wanted. When I was working the graveyard shift, I had a roommate like this who would wake me up. I was also going to school as well, so I got only a few hours sleep per day. Needless to say, I did very badly in both school and work. So you are saying I should do it anyway? Fuck that.
I have no obligation to them. Would you spend four hours every day for some bastard you didn't even like? It adds up. What if you know two or three of these people? Are you really going to spend 12 hours out of every day helping people with their computers without being paid? Some of us have lives. Some of us have jobs. Some of us have to sleep. Maybe you are a robot funded by some major university, so you don't have to worry about those things.
For the record, I bought my mother a WinXP computer about a month ago. So I don't know why you are going there, but she usually doesn't need much help as she usually only plays card games on it.
This is why there is so much interest in a Python compilier--compiliers are much faster than interpeters. There are some starting projects--such as psycho and Python 2 C Module Generator
Java and TCL have certainly had many more years and manpower to optimize thier implementations. I don't know much about Ruby. I'm sure in a few years, Python will improve too.
Scripting language just means it is interpeted. That is why python is slow. If they made a compiler for python, it would be much faster, though likely not as fast as C.
That is why they allow you to link with components in C. The critical time components can be written in C while the rest can stay Python, if you want. I think python is more useful for prototype design or just quick scripts. I agree it is slow, but it would be faster if someone made a compiler--I think someone did make a JIT one, but for one off things JITC is slow too. Some components don't need to be blazing fast, but an interpeter sucks with slowness.
So many editors switch tabs/spaces freely which creates problems with indentation syntax. Because of python and make, I have reverted to using e3 as an editor. I like that it is small and simple, but it does not have anything fancy like syntax highlighting. For programming syntax highlighting helps a lot. I used jed before and loved it, but it mucks with spaces and tabs, so python and make wouldn't work. Yeah, I think you can change the settings to make it work, but it is a huge pain in the ass.
Yes thanks but that doesn't always work. I do know some CSS and have books. I've tried it a few years ago, but had problems. I suppose I should try it again. There is always some attribute you forget or bugs or they do some javascript weirdness (like menus) and the modified CSS breaks the page. Trying to fix it doesn't always work or sometimes is impossible. I use the browser font and color settings, but they also have problems with bugs and such. In fact, mozilla and opera barely work with many sites.
It would be eaiser for everyone if web designers (and those who make standards) would just let the user and browser control their "experience" instead of trying to force things with javascript.
I suppose web designers think we need javascript. Some things seem to be missing--but I have to ask: what is the menu tag for? I would think it was originally intended for making menus. What happened to it? If this be the case, why didn't browsers implement it? It would be much better than javascript hacks...
Oh yeah, the MCSE webmasters are really going to stop using frontpage just because 0.01% of the company's customers decide to boycott. Yeah! Way to make a dent in the system.
Yeah, remember that if you ever drive through Utah on a Sunday. It's your fault for not knowing they don't do business that day. In fact, they should be allowed to make it illegal to do business on sunday because it suits their taste. Who cares if some gas statlion wants to supply to people on Sundays.
Once they pass that law, good luck finding a motel when your car runs out of gas. Oh yeah, since you are "homeless", the police will be harassing you too. I hope you like jail.
BTW, for some disabled people (not just the blind), traveling all the way to a retail outlet can be a huge burden. In fact, blindfold yourself and try to walk to the nearest store. Other problems can cause people to have difficulty using flash javascript crap sites. And the phone may not be an option either as their disability may cause problems in that area as well.
Of course, I suppose it is your option to make your site fuck up nearly everyone's web browser. I doubt everyone uses the exact same version of IE you do. If your site doesn't use web standards, then I'm sure you have plenty of problems with compatibility. The web wasn't designed for flash and javascript crap. Those are things web browsers and plugins tacked on later and they suck shit.
IANAL and the article is slashdotted so I couldn't read it, but I think they could argue an EULA on bought software was a blank contract (you don't see it before you buy the product) or you were forced to agree under duress--it doesn't allow you to use the product you paid for unless you click the EULA which you were not shown before you bought it.
So you are saying the computers at work have shit security that can easily be broken by a website? Ummm...yeah. I think pr0n sites are the least of your problems. They aren't the only places to get trojans, worms and viruses. At the very least, you should just cut your company off from the internet and save us all some trouble.
I forgot a link for duress. www.answers.com duress
I also thought I put a p tag in that paragraph where the footnote starts. Oh well. Sucks to be me. :-)
IANAL, but I would say a EULA is a blank contract. You buy the product, then take it home. To use the product you just paid for and they won't take it back, you are required to "sign" another contract[1] you didn't see before. It won't run the program you bought until you click "I agree." Isn't this duress? [1]You already created a contractual agreement to own that copy of the software and the store gets the money. As I understand copyright law, you aren't allowed to redistribute more copies, but you are allowed do anything else with it.
I don't see why people think this demand on websites are so difficult. It is easier to leave out javascript, CSS and flash requirements than to put them in...unless the web developers have some sort of OCD disablility...with the way some sites/programs are made, I have to wonder. I'm not sure I completely agree with the ADA, but this reqirement will probably save companies money and make them more compatible with other browsers. Javascript and crap always breaks anyway. What works on IE6 may not on IE7 or Mozilla.
The origional html was designed to work on any type of display or human input/output device. Text to speech with braille keyboards should be no different. In fact, I have visual disturbances and various problems from a stroke, so when web developers use CSS to enforce a microscopic type, I often have serious problems reading the site. If they didn't change the font size with CSS, then I and many other people wouldn't have any problems at all. I was having problems with it before my stroke as well.
Why should they mess with it? Sometimes it has to be done to accomidate weird javascript menus and crap, but hacky shit like that shouldn't be in professional websites in the first place. They don't work half the time. That is why you'll see "only compatible with IE6.23 and no others. Make sure you upgrade to this specific version and no higher, or our site won't work and it's your fault." Whatever...I go to a different online store. They lose business and the stupid fucks don't know why. If you complain to them, they just respond: "you have to use IE, it is the bestest browser ever! Yay microsoft!" Fucking MCSEs.
The end user should be allowed to view the type a whatever size they are comfortable, web designers only do that because they are control freaks who think you must have a "user experience" and stupidly didn't set their frakking display resolution settings even though they upgraded to a 200 inch monitor and their computer thinks they have a 14' so type set to be a mm across will appear to be huge on their monitor. Someone with even a 19 inch or anyone who sets their display res settings correctly only sees little pixels where the text should be. Fucking MCSEs.
Mozilla and co are finally programming some options to enforce minimum text sizes, but it doesn't always work. There are similar problems with colors. Paperwhite displays burn into your retinas. The california solution is to make OSHA standards requiring sunglasses on your monitor so it won't blind people. The real option would be to use a dark background. You can't do that because quirks between many websites and browsers cause the text to be a similar color as the background.
I am just curious, but why would lugging in a desktop be a hit against you? What if you don't have a laptop, or the game works on your underpowered laptop but not your destop?
This is the exact reason I don't like doing business with commercial software companies. They screw you every which way they can, and if their product doesn't work, they don't even give you a refund. At least with open source, you don't have to pay for it and may be able to fix what is broken...
Yeah, I don't understand why people think they can sue for a million dollars for any minor violation. I've also seen plenty of small businesses go under because they thought they should be instant profit powerhouses, so they charge insane prices. When that happens, it never makes money for the business. The few people who walk in see the prices and run away.
This is where I would lose. I would probably use the term copyright infringement, and if the judge asked why, I'd say: "Theft is where you go down to the store and take something, copying things without the copyright owner's permission is copyright infringement. I'd rather not do either, but you people are making good arguements for it!"
They probably do that on purpose hoping you will just go buy another. The corporate drones think all "consumers" / "customers" are stupid--unfortunately many are, so the companies get away with it to a point. The people who get it end up shuffling between companies for a long time until they find one who doesn't rip them off. Then the good company changes the CEO, and they start doing shit. Cycle starts over again.
No joke, I was working as a temp in a mfg plant a few years ago. I was told if there was any defect in the product, place it in such a way so they could blame the customer when it came back. They really do it.
I think he was talking about the computer breaking all by itself or on a system update. I haven't seen linux do that, except when I "upgraded" to fvwm2.
Linux hardware compatiblilty problems have nothing to do with Linux or open source specifically, it is the microsoft monopoly and hardware manufacturers who won't release specs and don't make drivers for Linux and other non-ms OSes. With any computer you have to find hardware which works. You wouldn't buy something made for the Amiga and expect it just work with a MS windows computer, would you? You would be stupid if you did.
And the difficulty installing, well, what do you expect from a system modelled after Unix? The GNU/Linux system isn't really a desktop OS. It is designed to be admined by computer experts paid by the company to keep it running, not common people at their house. Maybe someone can make a desktop OS with the Linux kernel, and it may be easy to use, but the kernel will still be designed and optimized to be a server. That is the problem, and it seems no one with any technical skill is working on it.
No, they don't force me, they just whine and bitch and bug me until I fix their computer. I'm not the one whining here, its the shithead MS lusers who want free tech support for their broken computers. Apparently there are plenty of them on slashdot who don't want to lose their free tech support.
I don't care what people put on their damn computer, just don't bug me about it or cause me a bunch of problems.
"Stop the whining"? You people are the ones who whine all the time. I'm sick of it. Get a real computer and leave me alone.
You mean like static ips and identd? Well, MS and dialup isps screwed that one. Then again sending a subpoena to the isp will at least give you the owner of the dialup account.
Damn, I almost came up with a legal requirement to force ISPs to give everyone static ips.
I see your point, but...
Maybe they should be given a piece of hardware which doesn't work with their favorite OS or the game consoles they have. Then yell at them when they tell you it doesn't work. (Why not, people do that to me all the time.) But, you can also give them the gift of knowledge: "Proprietary companies caused this problem. You support them and constantly tell me to use crap made by MS, the worst offender. So deal with it!"
Yeah, because everyone who knows anything about computers should be a slave to MS Win users and give their lives to "free" support. (It is not free for the person giving it.) At least once you set Linux, it usually stays that way, strange distro "configuratornermators" excepted.
~$ ispell
@(#) International Ispell Version 3.2.06 08/01/01
word: basicly
ok
#>
sowth expecting a reply...
There is not a two party system in the US. Two parties have just taken over the system. However, Libertarians don't look much better. Aren't they the people fronting for the crazy backwoods militias?
So basicly you are a grammar nazi troll.
/me expecting a reply linking to definitions of basic, nazi and troll.