Re:Well all the old computer people i know are use
on
Too Old To Code?
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· Score: 1
BUT these are people that have grown up without computers. So the next generation of "Old" people will most likly be more clued up about computers and be more capable of doing the job.
Interesting. But what makes you think that computers will be anything like they are today? If you don't evolve like they do, you are screwed.
(Will SOMEONE please help me with this 3D virtual toaster?!?)
Unless you are "high and mighty", any young promising software developer would jump at the chance to pick the brain of an experienced programmer. There's no doubt in my mind that it's one of the fastest ways to learn new techniques, ESPECIALLY the ones they don't teach you in school (imagine that, the school's don't know all).
These are the guys that could attract new talent by offering to accelerate their learning process early on, introduce them to the other company stuff and otherwise make the new guy's life easier.
To many people, this would seem like giving up, but face it: You can't keep up a supreme hacker's pace for 20 years without having multiple heart-attacks. Relax. Play golf. Teach a kid.:)
On a related side-note, if you are a young developer and you can get into a co-op or internship program, jump on it. You'll be glad you did.
I think a good UI has absolutely NONE of the things we are used to. The current choices of OS do little to bridge the gap between using a computer and doing things in real life.
Regular people want a learning curve as close to 0 as it can get, and until common OSes adopt this ideology people will still have to learn the quirks of the individual systems before they can actually do REAL work.
As funny as this may sound, there is almost no point in trying to make one grandios UI for the masses. Rather, the geeks need their prompt every once in a while (even with voice recognition, people!), and John Q. Public just wants to be able to have his e-mail read to him by saying "Do I have new mail?".
People's needs are different. If you want to make a good UI, concentrate on a narrow audience and tailor it for THEM.
I dislike the implication that many here make that those of us that sought, and obtained degrees (such as myself) wasted our time
Deciding whether or not it's a waste of time is up to you. I am still in school. I know that I have a lot to learn and school is one of the best places to learn, especially if you don't have a nice connection in the biz.
That is a bad thing
Yes, your points are valid. Maybe I should have been more specific, but what I meant was some of the advanced and/or unrelated things that you learn at school. This can't be helped since schools have no way of knowing where all of their students are going to work. A pure work environment can help a learner focus on one area instead of learning little bits of everything or having to take and arts class or something (which some may view as a waste of time).
I don't know what university you went to, but most of my third year classes still have 75 students or more. Getting feedback from a professor is more like a foot race to see who can get in line outside his door first after class.
Most of the more experienced engineers I've worked with tell me that a lot of the math and advanced theory they learned in school hasn't been used since then.
It's true that "universities tend to concentrate the best of the best and put them within talking distance of each other", but the brightess minds tend to be anti-social.
In a work environment, anti-social behaviour isn't "awarded" like it is in school (where there is less emphasis on teamwork). In real life, a person cannot succeed unless they can communicate in order to teach and learn from their peers.
A lot of people go to school because they think that they will learn things they can't possibly learn in the real world, and that's just ignorant. Many bright minds have skipped school altogether reasoning it is a large waste of time.
I think what it comes down to is EXPERIENCE. If a 15-year old kid with green hair has been working on web scripting/coding for 5 years, then he has experience. Some kids these days take to web programming like flies on honey.
The above posters views on "advanced" topics is also shakey. What makes you think that a bright teenager can't read the same books you did in college?? A lot of bright kids are making a lot of headway these days as long as they aren't stiffled by biz guys who think that just because they are kids, they can't possibly know how to program. IMHO, there are more older adults that think they know more than they do getting jobs just because they are older, not because they are more qualified than teenagers and/or young people.
True, this is the "easy" way - but it's a nightmare to maintain.
If you support n languages, your maintainance time is multiplied by a factor of n. Obviously, you want to use the same logic and formatting tags but with different words and phrases. This may be harder on your server, but it'll be easier to maintain, and you'll have less bugs and inconsistencies between languages.
This is why people are talking about querying the info from databases and using include files. Even include files are not a good way to go for all people because and ASP page that doesn't support dynamic filenames on includes will be bogged if you give it a page with 5 languages translated on it. PHP doesn't have this problem as far as I know.
I've been doing some work for the Gov't of Canada and they need bilingual stuff so this is right up my alley. My current design works on "keywords" for "phrases" used in the page. A "keyword" is a design reference used by the programmer to identify phrases, which are one or more words.
Keywords are put into a table with a unique id, keyword name, a group id (which references a group name (ie. page) from another table), and any number of translations desired that have the language as the column name.
Then if I wanted the word "apple" on a page, I just do "SELECT * FROM WHERE keyword='kApple'" and then use the "english" column if I'm on an english page, etc.
If you want to retrieve more than one keyword translation at once, you can use an ordering system for each group so that you can just.moveNext (or equivalent) through them. I use this mostly on forms, so when I join the translation table to the data table, the ordering is done according to the data table and I don't have to worry about that.
I also made my own admin tools for the languages so that I could look at a group of translations (for one page lets say) and make sure they are done correctly, that they are all there and that they are in the right order for each language.
If you start to get fancy, you can do all of your translation with one query that returns many phrases, though most of my pages have 2 or 3. Also, if you limit the amount of dynamic data you have in your translated text, you can save a lot of time.
I would recommend against using a syntactical system with a parser only because this can be fairly computationally intensive on a web server.
Do you really think it matters if their biz guys don't use Linux?? It's obvious that Windoze still rules on the desktop market, so why not use an arguably superior office suite to make your life easier, especially if you're just counting beans all day?
I'm a bit surprised that the lead article didn't split hairs about the whole {h|cr}acker thing.
I'm not.
The days of (hack == good) are over. More and more people are associating the term with the negative stigma the computer ignorant media has given it. Techs don't want to use this term because they may be risking offending an ignorant party (like their bosses).
We tried "cracker" out on the media, but it just didn't take. "Hacker" has a better ring to it; with that attack-with-an-axe connotation that makes people shiver just at the sound of the word in a newspaper headline.
Although it's unfortunate these people are unaware of the origins of it, we just have to accept that and move on. The definition of a word is usually the one which is most commonly used, not necessarily the correct one.
Of course, we'll still use it in our circles. It'll be our little "joke".:)
40 hours at work and another 20 at home during this co-op "work term".... when I'm in school it's 25-30 hours of classes and labs, another 15 of homework/studying and the remainder of the time on side projects. Ahh, the life of a future engineer. (what's a social life> ?)
But I figure: "Hey, I'm 22 now and I won't be able to pull this off when I'm 40!". Burn out while you still can. =)
I don't know if any of you are familiar with the co-op program that many universities in Ontario offer, but I'm loving it. Not only do I get 16 months of practical work experience before I leave school, I also get to experience working in 4 totally different environments if I so choose. This kind of "sampling" could take years otherwise. Plus, it helps me pay for school during school.
Besides that, I'm afraid most of you are out to lunch with this "school is useless" routine. I'm taking many courses with content I wouldn't even know where to look to learn otherwise. The reason most first jobs want to know about school is so they know you have the background info. Once you work a couple of years at a specific job, the stuff you've learned in school may be irrelevant to your career path or you may have forgetten it completely! Recruiters know this, and therefore don't care.
A little anecdote: In the co-op program, you compete directly with students in your classes. I have a (somewhat) modest B+ average and I'm an (almost) expert ASP/javascript/vbscript programmer and I got 14 interviews. The kids with A+ averages and no work experience got 0-3 interviews. Now that's something to chew on.
You know what? People of the future will look back on Sysadmins and other people that use a billion passwords and wrack their brains at how much thought and energy went into security.
It's obvious that once biometrics becomes mainstream, passwords will be out the window. Soon the definition of a "secure" password will be a combination fingerprint, voice and retinal scan. The benefits will be so great, that mass production will bring the prices down to reasonable levels. Who knows, we may even be able to open our front door or start our car just by saying a single word. Sweet, if you ask me.
So forget passwords! They'll be gone in 10 years max. I'm just surprised more people aren't pumping money into this...
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BUT these are people that have grown up without computers. So the next generation of "Old" people will most likly be more clued up about computers and be more capable of doing the job.
Interesting. But what makes you think that computers will be anything like they are today? If you don't evolve like they do, you are screwed.
(Will SOMEONE please help me with this 3D virtual toaster?!?)
Unless you are "high and mighty", any young promising software developer would jump at the chance to pick the brain of an experienced programmer. There's no doubt in my mind that it's one of the fastest ways to learn new techniques, ESPECIALLY the ones they don't teach you in school (imagine that, the school's don't know all).
:)
These are the guys that could attract new talent by offering to accelerate their learning process early on, introduce them to the other company stuff and otherwise make the new guy's life easier.
To many people, this would seem like giving up, but face it: You can't keep up a supreme hacker's pace for 20 years without having multiple heart-attacks. Relax. Play golf. Teach a kid.
On a related side-note, if you are a young developer and you can get into a co-op or internship program, jump on it. You'll be glad you did.
I think a good UI has absolutely NONE of the things we are used to. The current choices of OS do little to bridge the gap between using a computer and doing things in real life.
Regular people want a learning curve as close to 0 as it can get, and until common OSes adopt this ideology people will still have to learn the quirks of the individual systems before they can actually do REAL work.
As funny as this may sound, there is almost no point in trying to make one grandios UI for the masses. Rather, the geeks need their prompt every once in a while (even with voice recognition, people!), and John Q. Public just wants to be able to have his e-mail read to him by saying "Do I have new mail?".
People's needs are different. If you want to make a good UI, concentrate on a narrow audience and tailor it for THEM.
I dislike the implication that many here make that those of us that sought, and obtained degrees (such as myself) wasted our time
Deciding whether or not it's a waste of time is up to you. I am still in school. I know that I have a lot to learn and school is one of the best places to learn, especially if you don't have a nice connection in the biz.
That is a bad thing
Yes, your points are valid. Maybe I should have been more specific, but what I meant was some of the advanced and/or unrelated things that you learn at school. This can't be helped since schools have no way of knowing where all of their students are going to work. A pure work environment can help a learner focus on one area instead of learning little bits of everything or having to take and arts class or something (which some may view as a waste of time).
I don't know what university you went to, but most of my third year classes still have 75 students or more. Getting feedback from a professor is more like a foot race to see who can get in line outside his door first after class.
Most of the more experienced engineers I've worked with tell me that a lot of the math and advanced theory they learned in school hasn't been used since then.
It's true that "universities tend to concentrate the best of the best and put them within talking distance of each other", but the brightess minds tend to be anti-social.
In a work environment, anti-social behaviour isn't "awarded" like it is in school (where there is less emphasis on teamwork). In real life, a person cannot succeed unless they can communicate in order to teach and learn from their peers.
I think you made the right choice.
A lot of people go to school because they think that they will learn things they can't possibly learn in the real world, and that's just ignorant. Many bright minds have skipped school altogether reasoning it is a large waste of time.
I think what it comes down to is EXPERIENCE. If a 15-year old kid with green hair has been working on web scripting/coding for 5 years, then he has experience. Some kids these days take to web programming like flies on honey.
The above posters views on "advanced" topics is also shakey. What makes you think that a bright teenager can't read the same books you did in college?? A lot of bright kids are making a lot of headway these days as long as they aren't stiffled by biz guys who think that just because they are kids, they can't possibly know how to program. IMHO, there are more older adults that think they know more than they do getting jobs just because they are older, not because they are more qualified than teenagers and/or young people.
True, this is the "easy" way - but it's a nightmare to maintain.
If you support n languages, your maintainance time is multiplied by a factor of n. Obviously, you want to use the same logic and formatting tags but with different words and phrases. This may be harder on your server, but it'll be easier to maintain, and you'll have less bugs and inconsistencies between languages.
This is why people are talking about querying the info from databases and using include files. Even include files are not a good way to go for all people because and ASP page that doesn't support dynamic filenames on includes will be bogged if you give it a page with 5 languages translated on it. PHP doesn't have this problem as far as I know.
Cheers.
I've been doing some work for the Gov't of Canada and they need bilingual stuff so this is right up my alley. My current design works on "keywords" for "phrases" used in the page. A "keyword" is a design reference used by the programmer to identify phrases, which are one or more words.
.moveNext (or equivalent) through them. I use this mostly on forms, so when I join the translation table to the data table, the ordering is done according to the data table and I don't have to worry about that.
Keywords are put into a table with a unique id, keyword name, a group id (which references a group name (ie. page) from another table), and any number of translations desired that have the language as the column name.
Then if I wanted the word "apple" on a page, I just do "SELECT * FROM WHERE keyword='kApple'" and then use the "english" column if I'm on an english page, etc.
If you want to retrieve more than one keyword translation at once, you can use an ordering system for each group so that you can just
I also made my own admin tools for the languages so that I could look at a group of translations (for one page lets say) and make sure they are done correctly, that they are all there and that they are in the right order for each language.
If you start to get fancy, you can do all of your translation with one query that returns many phrases, though most of my pages have 2 or 3. Also, if you limit the amount of dynamic data you have in your translated text, you can save a lot of time.
I would recommend against using a syntactical system with a parser only because this can be fairly computationally intensive on a web server.
Do you really think it matters if their biz guys don't use Linux?? It's obvious that Windoze still rules on the desktop market, so why not use an arguably superior office suite to make your life easier, especially if you're just counting beans all day?
...
I generalized but you get the idea
I'm a bit surprised that the lead article didn't split hairs about the whole {h|cr}acker thing.
:)
I'm not.
The days of (hack == good) are over. More and more people are associating the term with the negative stigma the computer ignorant media has given it. Techs don't want to use this term because they may be risking offending an ignorant party (like their bosses).
We tried "cracker" out on the media, but it just didn't take. "Hacker" has a better ring to it; with that attack-with-an-axe connotation that makes people shiver just at the sound of the word in a newspaper headline.
Although it's unfortunate these people are unaware of the origins of it, we just have to accept that and move on. The definition of a word is usually the one which is most commonly used, not necessarily the correct one.
Of course, we'll still use it in our circles. It'll be our little "joke".
40 hours at work and another 20 at home during this co-op "work term" .... when I'm in school it's 25-30 hours of classes and labs, another 15 of homework/studying and the remainder of the time on side projects. Ahh, the life of a future engineer. (what's a social life> ?)
But I figure: "Hey, I'm 22 now and I won't be able to pull this off when I'm 40!". Burn out while you still can. =)
I don't know if any of you are familiar with the co-op program that many universities in Ontario offer, but I'm loving it. Not only do I get 16 months of practical work experience before I leave school, I also get to experience working in 4 totally different environments if I so choose. This kind of "sampling" could take years otherwise. Plus, it helps me pay for school during school.
Besides that, I'm afraid most of you are out to lunch with this "school is useless" routine. I'm taking many courses with content I wouldn't even know where to look to learn otherwise. The reason most first jobs want to know about school is so they know you have the background info. Once you work a couple of years at a specific job, the stuff you've learned in school may be irrelevant to your career path or you may have forgetten it completely! Recruiters know this, and therefore don't care.
A little anecdote: In the co-op program, you compete directly with students in your classes. I have a (somewhat) modest B+ average and I'm an (almost) expert ASP/javascript/vbscript programmer and I got 14 interviews. The kids with A+ averages and no work experience got 0-3 interviews. Now that's something to chew on.
rL
You know what? People of the future will look back on Sysadmins and other people that use a billion passwords and wrack their brains at how much thought and energy went into security.
...
It's obvious that once biometrics becomes mainstream, passwords will be out the window. Soon the definition of a "secure" password will be a combination fingerprint, voice and retinal scan. The benefits will be so great, that mass production will bring the prices down to reasonable levels. Who knows, we may even be able to open our front door or start our car just by saying a single word. Sweet, if you ask me.
So forget passwords! They'll be gone in 10 years max. I'm just surprised more people aren't pumping money into this