I'm not a Jesus freak, but there is a quote from the bible that has always stuck with me. "it is to you according to your ability to believe". If you believe in a certain outcome before you begin a journey, your faith will work to see that outcome come to fruition.
What do you do when you face opposition in your life? Do you lay down and give up? Do you dig a hole, hide in it, and hope to God the things you fear don't come to pass?
If we were to form a cooperative business model according to the laws of this country, they would be SOL. Any law they got passed they would be under. I'm not talking about a union, I'm not talking about invalidating their corporate charters, I'm talking about a business to compete. As for those good ole boys in the trucks, that's all FUD. You watch to much TV. Ask yourself if somone is a patriot of America to the point they have American flags on their cars, are they going to target their fellow Americans who formed a business to compete under the laws of America? Or do you think they will take the side of corporations shipping American jobs to India and China? I honestly don't know why I went this far, that whole assertion is extremely fear based and way out there. You got to face your fears and overcome them. You can't live your life like that.
So tell me: how long will it take your organization to go the same way? Or do you honestly think that unlike the doctors, the lawyers, the plumbers, the electricians, the psychiatrists, and all the others that have gone before you, you'll somehow be exempt from the same sort of greed and corruption?
Apples and Oranges.
You're referring to professional associations, I'm talking about a co-operative business model. Think about this, why are we being downsized? To save money. They cut a 60-120k job here to pay much less overseas(they're actually cutting even lower paying jobs than that though), right? Well in this case, we would be joining together cooperatively to downsize the non-techie middle managers, non-techie upper management, and shareholders/board of directors. There wouldn't be goldent parachutes in the organisation. Cutting out the real fat, we ought to be able to get decent pay out of our work while being price competitive in the market.
the devils in the details though, I see that clearly. This is an idea right now, nothing more.
I think there will always be people who prefer that sound. I have a digital guitar effects box that does pretty good distortion, but personally, nothing does distortion like a good tube amp. I'm only 32 BTW, so I hardly grew with tubes. But then again, I don't know may people who'd describe electric guitars distorted through tube amps as "warm, soothing".
Yes, and no. It does take clever marketing skills, but you don't have to lie. The reason these corps lie half the time is they really don't understand their products and they don't have decent products.
If we had a nationwide co-op of local IT professionals contracting with local businesses under one nationwide brand name, we would have pooled resources to engage in effective marketing. Marketing that wouldn't have to be done by each individual. Marketing that could be done in nationwide publications like businessweek and the like. This type of campaign would deliver huge mindshare to local members of the organisation and would allow them to focus on what they do best, IT work.
It's all an idea right now, if someone out there has any suggestions on who they think I should talk to about this for pointers on getting started, let me know. I think this could work, but the idea is much bigger than me.
Time to start our own businesses, form co-ops, and stick it to the outsourcing bastards age?
Seriously, I've been toying with the idea of a nationwide tech co-operative to provide consulting services, provide tech services, etc... A large enough co-op with the right people joining in and spearheading it, could seriously compete. No corporate bullshitters or middle managers skimming off the top. And we could outsource things ourselves when we can't beat an outsourcing company.
While I can envision it, the idea is bigger than me. I just wish I knew who to talk to about this. I have 5 grand of my own money I'll put up to get started and I'm willing to bet, provided a real plan to make money exists, I could find 100s if not 1000s of others with their own money(maybe not as much as I have) to put up. It's either we go this route, or go unions, or else we're all going to continue to get nailed to the door.
I don't remember exactly who said it from George Bush Sr's administration, but one of them said something like they didn't care if we made microchips or potato chips. I don't think the people from the older generations have figured out exactly how important the tech industry is for a thriving economy. I don't mean to knock EVERYONE from those generations, certainly there are some very bright, far more intelligent than I people among them, but as a whole, they seem pretty clueless.
That's a major problem in our area with solar. Everyones got a fricking pool(we don't) and nobody has solar power anything. We're getting read to refi to install a solar system. I should add, I live in a desert, so solar power is extremely attractive. ROI is realized in a few years, especially with state refunds for the equipment.
Hey, that's neat. That link you posted is the rescue my dog came from. Those people pick the very best pits and work very hard with them before adopting them out. Very sane, very civilized people. I have zero regrets going with a pitbull from them. Anyone in the SF bay area considering a pit, go through them. Don't buy it from the homeboys or support the puppy farms. And you can foster one for a while to see how it works out before making a comittment. You aren't going to get a mean dog from them though so if you're some moron who thinks it's a good idea to have a 70 pound mean pit bull around, don't bother going through them.
If I had kids myself, I wouldn't take a 0.1% chance in this question. Given the choice, I would simply choose a more docile breed in a family environment. Kids poke and bite things themselves. Why take a chance that the kid goads the dog into retaliating?
I honestly don't know what the percentage is, but I know it is far below 10 percent. Probably well below 1 percent or less. But you made it sound like I did something that guaranteed a certain result. That's what I based my response on. Pit Bulls, from a rational perspective, having studied their history before I adopted her, are a good choice for kids provided they have the right temperment. Because I went through a rescue, I was able to foster this bitch(I love saying that without being vulgar) for a month before adopting. During that month, I watched her get along with my cats(she's actually scared of my female cat) and I got to know her. There is little you can do to piss this dog off. The only time she's shown aggression was when this guy started yelling at my wife while we were moving, because we had the moving truck doubleparked(there wasn't another way to load it where we lived at the time). Rather than ask us nicely to move the car, he came up in a threatening manner using profanity. He stopped when he saw the dog tied up, snarling like a hell hound. This is a dog who routinely happily greets the mailman, UPS guy, fedex guy, etc... They all have to open our gate and come through our walled yard to get to our front door. She has never ever shown aggression to anyone but that one person. It was clear why she showed aggression too.
I don't think you understand how a dogs mind works. It has a mind, it can tell the difference between a human and a dog. It can tell the difference between a child and an adult. She plays extremely gently with my son, and really rough houses with me. I have seen my child jump on my dog, and my dog just loves it. She wags her tail even harder and begins to lick him to death. My son has yanked on her ears, pulled her tail, and hit her in the head(he's only a year and a half old so it's not hard), and she just reacts like he's playing. She knows he's playing. The biggest danger is she can knock him over if she gets too excited.
This dog is smart and can tell when you're fooling around and when you have ill intent. The only thing I have to be careful of with her is when those chiauauha size dogs are around. She was attacked once by one, it drew blood from her, and all she did was hold it down so it would stop. She could have ripped that thing apart and she did not. She could have drawn blood back but she did not. But ever since that incident, she barks really loudly at those dogs. Probably because she doesn't want to get her blood drawn again. I should say in this regard, my dog is an exception. A large number of pit bulls would have put the hurt on another dog who did that to them and really, who could blame them?
If you spent a day with this dog, you'd understand. You can't piss her off by poking her eyes, tugging her ears, or yanking her tail. In many ways, pit bulls are better able to cope with that type of rough housing because they are so strong and bred for a high tolerance of pain. Sometimes I wonder if she even feels pain the same way I do. You want to piss her off, get angry and act hostily towards a member of my family, that's the only time we've ever seen her get pissed. And I'll bet thousands of pit bull owners have had similar experiences.
But I wouldn't recommend just any pit bull, nor just picking any other breed. This is another reason why rescues are so great, you can foster the dog for a long enough time to get to know it and understand what you're getting into. Each dog is different, with different psychological makeups. You get a feel for their makeup real quick.
The reality about Pit Bulls being bred to fight is, they are bred to fight other dogs. If you look into the background of dog fighting and how hands on the handlers of fight dogs are, you would begin to understand that they were also bred to be very gentle with humans.
I won't ask for your sympathy when the "inevitable" happens, because it isn't inevitable at all. I dare you to produce statistics showing that all, or even most, or even 10 percent of all pitbulls kept in a home turn on their owners. There is no evidence of that, that is pure hyperbole reinforced by the media, who don't report most dog attacks, only the ones they can sensationalize about pit bulls. You should check facts before you form an opinion.
The problems with pitbulls arise right here:
this is because here in the UK the only people that have these dogs are almost as agressive as the dogs they keep
Bingo. You wouldn't want to be near a germen shepard or any other breed of dog people like that would raise. I'm not aggressive(maybe passively in certain circumstances) and I certainly don't teach my dog to fight. Dog fighting is repugnant in my opinion. And this dog was never taught to fight. Nor does this dog get treated roughly, as aggressive people would treat their dogs. I'm not a skinhead, have 0 tatooes, and I'm not a psychopath.
But you are free to believe whatever you wish, but the evidence does not support this. What you say is based on fear and media hype, not on statistics or facts.
FYI: Debian stable was released in July of 2002, over 2 years ago. Get your hands on a copy of Suse 9.x and give it a shot. You'll have a better idea of how far and fast we've come in 2 years.
An important note though - while many rescue dogs have gone through some obedience training, as an owner/caretaker one really should do obedience with the dog personally. Obedience training is as much about training the trainer as it is about training the dog. This is mostly because you need to be consistentant with the dog, even after is obedience class is over. If the dog doesn't follow directions, its usually because the human isn't giving them correctly/consistantly.
ABSOLUTELY. I was just coming from the perspective that it's easier to get started with a dog that has some training, and it is in my experience, than from scratch. I think that would be relevant especially for older people. But you definetly need to with your dog and get to know your dog. People need to understand that, even if you send your dog to a high end training school, the effects will fade if you don't work with your dog and you aren't consistant.
That could be, but given other things GW has said in english about God, it's really not hard to believe he would say that, for me anyway. It didn't help that the whitehouse had no comment about it(none that I could find).
But I see where you're coming. I again thank you for pointing that out to me, sincerely. I was ignorant of it and now I am not. thanks!
I highly recommend this route. To avoid having to go through training issues and increasing demand on the puppy factories out there, seriously consider looking into a rescue dog. These are dogs that typically are taken from shelters before their time runs out. The volunteers who run rescues tend to pick dogs who have exceptional traits like intelligence, affectionate, etc...
In the rescue system, they are typically potty trained, given obedience classes, speyed or neutered, screened for diseases, full immunizations, and are socialized with other dogs. I adopted a 2 year old pit bull a few years back(I went to see a germen shepherd but this dog suckered me). I couldn't have asked for a better dog. She came potty trained(mostly) with basic obedience training and she's extremely loyal. She does really good with my infant children and she scares the crap out of strangers.
I highly recommend rescue dogs after this experience.
I have to mostly agree with this: If there's one thing I've learned in my (admittedly relatively short) life, it's that things are never as bad (or as good) as others would have me believe.
the modification would be "things are usually never as bad..."
There is a real danger in the situation we have right now. The right does not question Bush, calls names to everyone who disagrees with his policies(liberal, socialist, communist, terrorist sympathizer, etc...), and never ever considers(that I've seen) that the guy could be wrong.
That is a dangerous place to be. That's what's wrong with cults. No one questions the leader, they just blindly follow. I would feel a lot more comfortable if I heard criticisms of Bush coming from the right. After 9/11, Bush has gained god status in their eyes. He can do no wrong and everyone who questions him is a ______.
I'm not saying this is true of every individual who identifies themselves as right wing, but it sure as hell seems true in general. Since when did we stop thinking and start trusting people to be right all the time? Since when did we just start nodding our heads like puppets on strings, agreeing with everything a leader does? Accepting with all the conviction of religious faith the reasons offered for actions taken?
This is not a good situation. Our republic wasn't designed to revolve around an individual infallible god. QUESTION AUTHORITY
But we don't call our opponents Hitler, Nazis or Stalin.
No, you just knee jerk call people who disagree with the president or his policies, communists, socialists, terrorist sympathizers, and all kinds of other nasty illogical names. And before you whip you the "leftist" label out of your rear and try to apply it to me, I'm a Libertarian. My party stands for free markets, limited government, and fiscal responsibility. You remember those words? It's what Bush promised us and then delivered the exact opposite.
He did have them and he even used them. In fact, in one of the weapons declarations he declared that he had them.
With reasoning like that, you ought to contact the whitehouse and explain they were wrong for backing down from their claims and admitting they were wrong.
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I'm not a Jesus freak, but there is a quote from the bible that has always stuck with me. "it is to you according to your ability to believe". If you believe in a certain outcome before you begin a journey, your faith will work to see that outcome come to fruition.
What do you do when you face opposition in your life? Do you lay down and give up? Do you dig a hole, hide in it, and hope to God the things you fear don't come to pass?
If we were to form a cooperative business model according to the laws of this country, they would be SOL. Any law they got passed they would be under. I'm not talking about a union, I'm not talking about invalidating their corporate charters, I'm talking about a business to compete. As for those good ole boys in the trucks, that's all FUD. You watch to much TV. Ask yourself if somone is a patriot of America to the point they have American flags on their cars, are they going to target their fellow Americans who formed a business to compete under the laws of America? Or do you think they will take the side of corporations shipping American jobs to India and China? I honestly don't know why I went this far, that whole assertion is extremely fear based and way out there. You got to face your fears and overcome them. You can't live your life like that.
So tell me: how long will it take your organization to go the same way? Or do you honestly think that unlike the doctors, the lawyers, the plumbers, the electricians, the psychiatrists, and all the others that have gone before you, you'll somehow be exempt from the same sort of greed and corruption?
Apples and Oranges.
You're referring to professional associations, I'm talking about a co-operative business model. Think about this, why are we being downsized? To save money. They cut a 60-120k job here to pay much less overseas(they're actually cutting even lower paying jobs than that though), right? Well in this case, we would be joining together cooperatively to downsize the non-techie middle managers, non-techie upper management, and shareholders/board of directors. There wouldn't be goldent parachutes in the organisation. Cutting out the real fat, we ought to be able to get decent pay out of our work while being price competitive in the market.
the devils in the details though, I see that clearly. This is an idea right now, nothing more.
I think there will always be people who prefer that sound. I have a digital guitar effects box that does pretty good distortion, but personally, nothing does distortion like a good tube amp. I'm only 32 BTW, so I hardly grew with tubes. But then again, I don't know may people who'd describe electric guitars distorted through tube amps as "warm, soothing".
I'd bet half of what I own that's a vast minority that does that. :) They also heat the pools, so they'll be "just right".
BTW, love the sig. Couldn't agree more.
I don't have a newsletter, I'm just a guy with an idea, but I'll be sending you an email.
Yes, and no. It does take clever marketing skills, but you don't have to lie. The reason these corps lie half the time is they really don't understand their products and they don't have decent products.
If we had a nationwide co-op of local IT professionals contracting with local businesses under one nationwide brand name, we would have pooled resources to engage in effective marketing. Marketing that wouldn't have to be done by each individual. Marketing that could be done in nationwide publications like businessweek and the like. This type of campaign would deliver huge mindshare to local members of the organisation and would allow them to focus on what they do best, IT work.
It's all an idea right now, if someone out there has any suggestions on who they think I should talk to about this for pointers on getting started, let me know. I think this could work, but the idea is much bigger than me.
Time to start our own businesses, form co-ops, and stick it to the outsourcing bastards age?
Seriously, I've been toying with the idea of a nationwide tech co-operative to provide consulting services, provide tech services, etc... A large enough co-op with the right people joining in and spearheading it, could seriously compete. No corporate bullshitters or middle managers skimming off the top. And we could outsource things ourselves when we can't beat an outsourcing company.
While I can envision it, the idea is bigger than me. I just wish I knew who to talk to about this. I have 5 grand of my own money I'll put up to get started and I'm willing to bet, provided a real plan to make money exists, I could find 100s if not 1000s of others with their own money(maybe not as much as I have) to put up. It's either we go this route, or go unions, or else we're all going to continue to get nailed to the door.
I don't remember exactly who said it from George Bush Sr's administration, but one of them said something like they didn't care if we made microchips or potato chips. I don't think the people from the older generations have figured out exactly how important the tech industry is for a thriving economy. I don't mean to knock EVERYONE from those generations, certainly there are some very bright, far more intelligent than I people among them, but as a whole, they seem pretty clueless.
That's a major problem in our area with solar. Everyones got a fricking pool(we don't) and nobody has solar power anything. We're getting read to refi to install a solar system. I should add, I live in a desert, so solar power is extremely attractive. ROI is realized in a few years, especially with state refunds for the equipment.
We also have a very large windmill farm near us...
http://www.palmsprings.com/services/wind.html
If people did the math in this area, they'd be buying solar systems before pools.
It only sucked because we were trying to download 50k jpegs of porn.
Shhhh. We're not supposed to talk about that in front of the kids.
Yeah and the far range is at 9600. If you live in the relative boons like me, you're better off with cable.
I don't know, 9600 baud? I remember those days, I don't want to go back.
Hey, that's neat. That link you posted is the rescue my dog came from. Those people pick the very best pits and work very hard with them before adopting them out. Very sane, very civilized people. I have zero regrets going with a pitbull from them. Anyone in the SF bay area considering a pit, go through them. Don't buy it from the homeboys or support the puppy farms. And you can foster one for a while to see how it works out before making a comittment. You aren't going to get a mean dog from them though so if you're some moron who thinks it's a good idea to have a 70 pound mean pit bull around, don't bother going through them.
If I had kids myself, I wouldn't take a 0.1% chance in this question. Given the choice, I would simply choose a more docile breed in a family environment. Kids poke and bite things themselves. Why take a chance that the kid goads the dog into retaliating?
I honestly don't know what the percentage is, but I know it is far below 10 percent. Probably well below 1 percent or less. But you made it sound like I did something that guaranteed a certain result. That's what I based my response on. Pit Bulls, from a rational perspective, having studied their history before I adopted her, are a good choice for kids provided they have the right temperment. Because I went through a rescue, I was able to foster this bitch(I love saying that without being vulgar) for a month before adopting. During that month, I watched her get along with my cats(she's actually scared of my female cat) and I got to know her. There is little you can do to piss this dog off. The only time she's shown aggression was when this guy started yelling at my wife while we were moving, because we had the moving truck doubleparked(there wasn't another way to load it where we lived at the time). Rather than ask us nicely to move the car, he came up in a threatening manner using profanity. He stopped when he saw the dog tied up, snarling like a hell hound. This is a dog who routinely happily greets the mailman, UPS guy, fedex guy, etc... They all have to open our gate and come through our walled yard to get to our front door. She has never ever shown aggression to anyone but that one person. It was clear why she showed aggression too.
I don't think you understand how a dogs mind works. It has a mind, it can tell the difference between a human and a dog. It can tell the difference between a child and an adult. She plays extremely gently with my son, and really rough houses with me. I have seen my child jump on my dog, and my dog just loves it. She wags her tail even harder and begins to lick him to death. My son has yanked on her ears, pulled her tail, and hit her in the head(he's only a year and a half old so it's not hard), and she just reacts like he's playing. She knows he's playing. The biggest danger is she can knock him over if she gets too excited.
This dog is smart and can tell when you're fooling around and when you have ill intent. The only thing I have to be careful of with her is when those chiauauha size dogs are around. She was attacked once by one, it drew blood from her, and all she did was hold it down so it would stop. She could have ripped that thing apart and she did not. She could have drawn blood back but she did not. But ever since that incident, she barks really loudly at those dogs. Probably because she doesn't want to get her blood drawn again. I should say in this regard, my dog is an exception. A large number of pit bulls would have put the hurt on another dog who did that to them and really, who could blame them?
If you spent a day with this dog, you'd understand. You can't piss her off by poking her eyes, tugging her ears, or yanking her tail. In many ways, pit bulls are better able to cope with that type of rough housing because they are so strong and bred for a high tolerance of pain. Sometimes I wonder if she even feels pain the same way I do. You want to piss her off, get angry and act hostily towards a member of my family, that's the only time we've ever seen her get pissed. And I'll bet thousands of pit bull owners have had similar experiences.
But I wouldn't recommend just any pit bull, nor just picking any other breed. This is another reason why rescues are so great, you can foster the dog for a long enough time to get to know it and understand what you're getting into. Each dog is different, with different psychological makeups. You get a feel for their makeup real quick.
You're absolutely ignorant about pit bulls. You've fallen for a media myth. Go here...
http://www.realpitbull.com/myths.html
The reality about Pit Bulls being bred to fight is, they are bred to fight other dogs. If you look into the background of dog fighting and how hands on the handlers of fight dogs are, you would begin to understand that they were also bred to be very gentle with humans.
I won't ask for your sympathy when the "inevitable" happens, because it isn't inevitable at all. I dare you to produce statistics showing that all, or even most, or even 10 percent of all pitbulls kept in a home turn on their owners. There is no evidence of that, that is pure hyperbole reinforced by the media, who don't report most dog attacks, only the ones they can sensationalize about pit bulls. You should check facts before you form an opinion.
The problems with pitbulls arise right here: this is because here in the UK the only people that have these dogs are almost as agressive as the dogs they keep
Bingo. You wouldn't want to be near a germen shepard or any other breed of dog people like that would raise. I'm not aggressive(maybe passively in certain circumstances) and I certainly don't teach my dog to fight. Dog fighting is repugnant in my opinion. And this dog was never taught to fight. Nor does this dog get treated roughly, as aggressive people would treat their dogs. I'm not a skinhead, have 0 tatooes, and I'm not a psychopath.
But you are free to believe whatever you wish, but the evidence does not support this. What you say is based on fear and media hype, not on statistics or facts.
FYI: Debian stable was released in July of 2002, over 2 years ago. Get your hands on a copy of Suse 9.x and give it a shot. You'll have a better idea of how far and fast we've come in 2 years.
An important note though - while many rescue dogs have gone through some obedience training, as an owner/caretaker one really should do obedience with the dog personally. Obedience training is as much about training the trainer as it is about training the dog. This is mostly because you need to be consistentant with the dog, even after is obedience class is over. If the dog doesn't follow directions, its usually because the human isn't giving them correctly/consistantly.
ABSOLUTELY. I was just coming from the perspective that it's easier to get started with a dog that has some training, and it is in my experience, than from scratch. I think that would be relevant especially for older people. But you definetly need to with your dog and get to know your dog. People need to understand that, even if you send your dog to a high end training school, the effects will fade if you don't work with your dog and you aren't consistant.
That could be, but given other things GW has said in english about God, it's really not hard to believe he would say that, for me anyway. It didn't help that the whitehouse had no comment about it(none that I could find).
But I see where you're coming. I again thank you for pointing that out to me, sincerely. I was ignorant of it and now I am not. thanks!
I heard it slightly different... Better to be judged by 12 than carried by 6.
I highly recommend this route. To avoid having to go through training issues and increasing demand on the puppy factories out there, seriously consider looking into a rescue dog. These are dogs that typically are taken from shelters before their time runs out. The volunteers who run rescues tend to pick dogs who have exceptional traits like intelligence, affectionate, etc...
In the rescue system, they are typically potty trained, given obedience classes, speyed or neutered, screened for diseases, full immunizations, and are socialized with other dogs. I adopted a 2 year old pit bull a few years back(I went to see a germen shepherd but this dog suckered me). I couldn't have asked for a better dog. She came potty trained(mostly) with basic obedience training and she's extremely loyal. She does really good with my infant children and she scares the crap out of strangers.
I highly recommend rescue dogs after this experience.
Thanks for replying and providing that link, I'll change my sig. I still think it's just as absurd with that different translation.
I have to mostly agree with this:
If there's one thing I've learned in my (admittedly relatively short) life, it's that things are never as bad (or as good) as others would have me believe.
the modification would be "things are usually never as bad..."
There is a real danger in the situation we have right now. The right does not question Bush, calls names to everyone who disagrees with his policies(liberal, socialist, communist, terrorist sympathizer, etc...), and never ever considers(that I've seen) that the guy could be wrong.
That is a dangerous place to be. That's what's wrong with cults. No one questions the leader, they just blindly follow. I would feel a lot more comfortable if I heard criticisms of Bush coming from the right. After 9/11, Bush has gained god status in their eyes. He can do no wrong and everyone who questions him is a ______.
I'm not saying this is true of every individual who identifies themselves as right wing, but it sure as hell seems true in general. Since when did we stop thinking and start trusting people to be right all the time? Since when did we just start nodding our heads like puppets on strings, agreeing with everything a leader does? Accepting with all the conviction of religious faith the reasons offered for actions taken?
This is not a good situation. Our republic wasn't designed to revolve around an individual infallible god. QUESTION AUTHORITY
But we don't call our opponents Hitler, Nazis or Stalin.
No, you just knee jerk call people who disagree with the president or his policies, communists, socialists, terrorist sympathizers, and all kinds of other nasty illogical names. And before you whip you the "leftist" label out of your rear and try to apply it to me, I'm a Libertarian. My party stands for free markets, limited government, and fiscal responsibility. You remember those words? It's what Bush promised us and then delivered the exact opposite.
Just a matter of scraping the addon crap and starting again from constitution and a reviewed bill of rights.
Count me in, only I like the Bill of Rights as they are.
He did have them and he even used them. In fact, in one of the weapons declarations he declared that he had them.
With reasoning like that, you ought to contact the whitehouse and explain they were wrong for backing down from their claims and admitting they were wrong.