I agree with Mocaone on this (see next post) - the internet is just the medium. It's a collection of fiber optic wires, servers, routers, switches, hubs, and computers. It doesn't have a life independent of those that use it. To say that it's "revolutionizing" things is akin to saying an inanimate object has human-like characteristics.
When I look at webpages, desktops, multimedia presentations and word documents... I don't see technology - I see people. What do you see?
All the internet has done so far is accelerate communication and amplify the current state of affairs in the societies it has come in contact with. Witness commerce moving onto the internet - the advertisements, "get a free pc" offers, and banner ads are all rooted in their real-world equivalents - TV ads, giveaway offers, and billboards. It's just that online those ideas are amplified and reinforced at an accelerated rate.
Same with communication. Before communication occurred totally within the context of a one-to-many relationship. Now you have a many-to-many relationship, although the dynamics of communication and it's content have not changed. Rather than telephoning people we e-mail them. Rather than watching the news we read www.cnn.com or slashdot. Same concepts, except now they're more specialized and refined - they've been amplified.
The internet will adapt to serve society, NOT the other way around. If the opposite had occurred, we would be having wars, anarchy and mass hysteria. As it is we only have some hysteria and alot of paranoia over the changes that are washing up on the fringe shores of society - the geeks and outcasts.
Date: Tue, 23 Mar 1999 14:38:02 -0800 (PST) From: Rob Malda <malda@slashdot.org> To: iversen <signal11@mediaone.net> Subject: Re: censorship or moderation? In-Reply-To: <36F7EE2D.20C9A0B7@mediaone.net> Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.04.9903231437170.9222-100000@vanessa.s lashdot.org> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII
If you don't like it, you can turn it off. Its 100% up to you. I make no bones that this system is flawed. But its what we've got until I try something else. And I/will/ try something else, but we'll try this for awhile and see how it goes.
rob"CmdrTaco"malda,'^~=-=-=-=----------------------- - - - - malda@slashdot.org / What I lack in tuning and talent, I more than make http://slashdot.org / up for in volume.
Halloween night... Rob updates slashdot. Scary. I can hear the screams now... "I liked it better the oooooold way, Nooooooooo!"
Okay, bad joke... but more seriously - when are you going to try something new with the moderation system? Over a year ago when the system was first started, you said you'd try something new. Ummmm... soooo, when will we see something new?
Yes, don't you know that everybody who's made contact with aliens either winds up in counselling or disappears? That's strictly government only. If you have an ET in your basement you'd better return him now before the natives find out!
Somehow it isn't suprising. I mean, spammers are almost universally hated online. So 'natch there are alot of jokes going around about "what we would do" if we ever caught one of them alone.
In the same vein on how alot of us have had thoughts of pouring iron filings into the back of a crappy monitor at work to get a new one, this is kind of the same logic.
I have to say that making jokes about spammers (a general group) isn't necessarily a wrong or evil idea. However, laughing at a the real thing (specific people) is morally reprehensible. Nobody deserves to die - that doesn't mean we can't joke about it. Seems alittle contradictory? It is. Non sequir. None the less, it is true.
Upload the resulting file using your cablemodem. Now, due to the miracles of compression what would normally go up at 2k/s goes at about 30k/s. Gotta love ratio sites, eh?
Let's see... ZDNet wrote a wonderful article once again.. unhindered by the facts though they may be....
My list of OSS developers:
ESR - Wrote some articles. Carries a gun. Has a short temper. Wants somebody to take his job. Probability of going postal (or cobol) within the next 6 months: 75% Could use a beer.
RMS - Wrote alot of code. Has long hair. Doesn't carry a gun. Gets into frequent fights with ESR anyway. Wishes people would stop calling open source "free". Wants free speech, but not free beer.
RM - Made some nerds for news site. Drinks lots of free beer.
WTF - Mythical god of programming. Usually invoked whenever something doesn't work, ie: "WTF, why did you do that?" Drink some beer and he'll go away.
Linus: Coded the greatest operating system known in 6 days. On the 7th day he rested. We've been releasing new kernels ever since. Claims teenage girls don't throw their underwear at him but we know better. Currently unemployed - "This company is not yet here." He's one reason alot of programmers started drinking. =)
Alan Cox - Linus' right hand man. Whatever linus breaks, he fixes. Often has a new kernel ready to before you've even finished downloading the present release posted to kernel-dev ten minutes ago. Has long hair. Beer status unknown.
Could be... but I'd say that if you're looking for warez, the first rule is that it won't be online... you'll click those links until the end of your days and not find what you're looking for (or, well.. maybe you will).
I think that these people are monumentally stupid if they think they're being "forced" to do anything - there are easier ways to get what you're looking for.
With mp3's, use something like napster, or mp3 usenet newsgroups. If you're looking for warez, IRC or alt.binary.*.
Internet - WARNING: Use of fully-functional brain required during use of this product. Working with Internet without a fully-functional brain may lead to needlessly viewing pr0n, or mindlessly clicking through the yahoo directory searching for nothing in particular.
Rob, you're forcing me to login. You're forcing me to read those advertisements on top of your page. I'm not responsible - society has forced me to spend my hard-earned cash and turned me into a social reject. Now I'm forced into posting to slashdot and hitting reload several dozen times an hour. It's not my fault, I'm a victim of Rob Malda! Help, help! Somebody's forcing me to think independently! It hurts, make them stop!!!
I've been using computers since I was 5 years old. History has taught me that while technology is a tool, and as such can be neither good nor evil, there is good and evil in the world. As such, the technology is used by both sides.
The SPA considers software piracy wrong. Federal law says it's illegal. It's also widespread, and I haven't found many geeks that care what's written in the books - the software is free, the risk is low, and the information is infinitely reproduceable.
Is there any reason to think survellance won't follow the same logic? We may tell the NSA and CIA and everybody else what they can and cannot due, but the technology will still be used. As a computer-user, I gave up on the legal system a long time ago - it's hopelessly out of date and broken. I'm sure many gov't agencies view this in a similar light.
We can pass all the laws and legislation and make all the fuss we want and strip away everybody's rights to try to enforce that... but you'll still wind up in the same position whether you do that or not. We must address the underlying issues here - one of which is accountability. If you want to invade my privacy, I can't stop you... but if you use that information against me, there needs to be a clear, defined, and enforced method of repayment for the damage you've caused. If the NSA spies on thousands of "innocent" people, they should be held directly accountable for that. The question is... how?
True direct democracy would solve alot of these problems by replacing them with another set of problems. Your call.
It's a myth that sitting in front of computers will "screw up your vision". There's another similar myth that says watching TV in the dark or sitting too close does the same thing. Both have been largely disproved.
I say largely because while your eyes aren't affected, your muscles are.. and they are responsible for up to 20% of your visual acuity if memory serves. So it's a good idea to take frequent breaks (for a variety of reasons - not just for your eyes), look away from the monitor every now and then (look far away, wait, look back) to get those muscles working, and eat a normal diet. The last one will work wonders for your energy levels and stuff... I find alot of geeks have less than stellar diets.. myself included. disclaimer: I'm a coder, not a doctor jim!
Time magazine has an excellent writeup in this month's edition about LASIC surgery. I believe this link will get you where you need to go, but I don't read Time very often (too conservative).
In a nutshell, it's still an infant technology, and the recommendation is to wait. If you can't wait, find a good doctor, and be sure to ask what his/her complication rate is - if he won't tell you drop him like a Intel 820 chipset.
There are quite a few complications.. and most people experience the so-called "halo" effect for several months after receiving the surgery. You'll also typically have to undergo multiple surgeries - mainly to "fine-tune" your vision. The procedure also isn't guaranteed to have you seeing 20/20... although between 20/20 and 20/40 is common. Some people (although uncommon) even get their vision corrected to better than normal.. as good as 20/10.
I think that some hacks, if declassified, would far outrank those you see at MIT. There are reports that tiger teams who met with great success in penetrating security have forced more than one general into early retirement.
Thanks again Big Media for only getting half of the story. You write up this big article on hacking, but don't mention the reason behind it. Once again sensationalism overcomes common decency. Why not ask the community what they think? We're here, we're online, and we're accomodating. If you're honest with us, we're honest with you.
The greatest hack of all time may be that we're all laughing at you instead of with you and you don't even realize it yet. It's not "just" about hacking websites... it's about exploring the System. The system isn't just the online world you see, it's your reality. The media has had nearly unlimited power to shape our collective reality until now. Until now. Now the community is redefining what reality is, and exposing alot of facts that most would rather see buried.
Perhaps geeks are more paranoid than most because they know how far information manipulation can go... and infact see it on a daily basis. "Mistrust authority. Promote decentralization." Subversive? Us? Nah.
Interactive experience... probably defined as rocking the machine violently in 100 degree heat while the machine says "please deposit correct change".....
Oh great. Now instead of pouring salt-water in the tops of those things to short them out and get free pop I'll have to pour liquid nitrogen in them....
Anyway, I like you kitsune, but don't go saying I was paying any attention to this thread. =) As it happens I was actually working, unlike some of you. *rimshot*
If you could harness all that slashdot discontent and direct it into focused coding, rather than pissing and moaning, a great deal more would be accomplished.
Confucious say, "when all is said and done, more is said than done." Such is the human equation.. it is unalterable. Instead focus on committing more people to the project than encouraging those who would rather say than do.
I do spent more time coding than I do on slashdot. And it isn't a "moot" point. I want to make damned sure that my hard work won't all be in vein because I fscked up early on and distributed it under the wrong license. For better or for worse licensing issues are a major concern for any programmer who releases his own code (if he works for Corporate, they make this decision for him..). Please stop telling me licensing is a moot point - that's a myopic view at best, and a dangerous piece of advice to offer at worst.
I hate seeing people reinvent the wheel a dozen times. I don't like the idea that I can't use an mp3 encoder for free - I have to pay somebody for it. I really hate the concept of "proprietary" because that slows everybody down - it slows me down, it slows the industry down, it slows the user down. it is for this reason and this reason alone I release my stuff under gpl. Because once I release it under GPL, the work is there for everybody to add and build on - and it also guarantees that both myself and my fellow coders don't have to recode things because They(tm) won't make their source under a free license. And to be honest - I'm alittle lazy too - I want to work on the interesting problems... and if somebody has already done half of my work I'm just happy as a clam to use it.
Not exactly. If QT was GPL'd -OR- LGPL -OR- BSD then you could freely link it in with any GPL-compatible program. But QT isn't, so we need to write exceptions because if it, not because of other pre-existing licenses. I'd also like to point out that unless you get permission from all the people who you've accepted patches from, it may well be illegal to relicense it to allow the QT exception!
QT is GPL-incompatible, not the other way around. There is no reason why we need to start adding addendums to the GPL for every other license instead of just GPLing it (or BSDing it if you'd like commercial involvement in your code - ala MacOS X). So don't tell me this is the GPL's fault because it's not.
Slashdot Mirror
I agree with Mocaone on this (see next post) - the internet is just the medium. It's a collection of fiber optic wires, servers, routers, switches, hubs, and computers. It doesn't have a life independent of those that use it. To say that it's "revolutionizing" things is akin to saying an inanimate object has human-like characteristics.
When I look at webpages, desktops, multimedia presentations and word documents... I don't see technology - I see people. What do you see?
--
All the internet has done so far is accelerate communication and amplify the current state of affairs in the societies it has come in contact with. Witness commerce moving onto the internet - the advertisements, "get a free pc" offers, and banner ads are all rooted in their real-world equivalents - TV ads, giveaway offers, and billboards. It's just that online those ideas are amplified and reinforced at an accelerated rate.
Same with communication. Before communication occurred totally within the context of a one-to-many relationship. Now you have a many-to-many relationship, although the dynamics of communication and it's content have not changed. Rather than telephoning people we e-mail them. Rather than watching the news we read www.cnn.com or slashdot. Same concepts, except now they're more specialized and refined - they've been amplified.
The internet will adapt to serve society, NOT the other way around. If the opposite had occurred, we would be having wars, anarchy and mass hysteria. As it is we only have some hysteria and alot of paranoia over the changes that are washing up on the fringe shores of society - the geeks and outcasts.
--
No... I meant this:
s lashdot.org>
/will/ try something else, but we'll try this for awhile and see how it goes.
,'^~=-=-=-=----------------------- - - - -
Date: Tue, 23 Mar 1999 14:38:02 -0800 (PST)
From: Rob Malda <malda@slashdot.org>
To: iversen <signal11@mediaone.net>
Subject: Re: censorship or moderation?
In-Reply-To: <36F7EE2D.20C9A0B7@mediaone.net>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.04.9903231437170.9222-100000@vanessa.
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII
If you don't like it, you can turn it off. Its 100% up to you. I make no bones that this system is flawed. But its what we've got until I try
something else. And I
rob"CmdrTaco"malda
malda@slashdot.org / What I lack in tuning and talent, I more than make
http://slashdot.org / up for in volume.
--
Okay, bad joke... but more seriously - when are you going to try something new with the moderation system? Over a year ago when the system was first started, you said you'd try something new. Ummmm... soooo, when will we see something new?
--
Yes, don't you know that everybody who's made contact with aliens either winds up in counselling or disappears? That's strictly government only. If you have an ET in your basement you'd better return him now before the natives find out!
--
In the same vein on how alot of us have had thoughts of pouring iron filings into the back of a crappy monitor at work to get a new one, this is kind of the same logic.
I have to say that making jokes about spammers (a general group) isn't necessarily a wrong or evil idea. However, laughing at a the real thing (specific people) is morally reprehensible. Nobody deserves to die - that doesn't mean we can't joke about it. Seems alittle contradictory? It is. Non sequir. None the less, it is true.
--
dd if=/dev/zero of=fake.mp3 bs=1024 count=3000
Upload the resulting file using your cablemodem. Now, due to the miracles of compression what would normally go up at 2k/s goes at about 30k/s. Gotta love ratio sites, eh?
--
Let's see... ZDNet wrote a wonderful article once again.. unhindered by the facts though they may be....
My list of OSS developers:
ESR - Wrote some articles. Carries a gun. Has a short temper. Wants somebody to take his job. Probability of going postal (or cobol) within the next 6 months: 75% Could use a beer.
RMS - Wrote alot of code. Has long hair. Doesn't carry a gun. Gets into frequent fights with ESR anyway. Wishes people would stop calling open source "free". Wants free speech, but not free beer.
RM - Made some nerds for news site. Drinks lots of free beer.
WTF - Mythical god of programming. Usually invoked whenever something doesn't work, ie: "WTF, why did you do that?" Drink some beer and he'll go away.
Linus: Coded the greatest operating system known in 6 days. On the 7th day he rested. We've been releasing new kernels ever since. Claims teenage girls don't throw their underwear at him but we know better. Currently unemployed - "This company is not yet here." He's one reason alot of programmers started drinking. =)
Alan Cox - Linus' right hand man. Whatever linus breaks, he fixes. Often has a new kernel ready to before you've even finished downloading the present release posted to kernel-dev ten minutes ago. Has long hair. Beer status unknown.
--
You *could* say that. But unless he asks for the URL you're still out a job. :)
--
I think that these people are monumentally stupid if they think they're being "forced" to do anything - there are easier ways to get what you're looking for.
With mp3's, use something like napster, or mp3 usenet newsgroups. If you're looking for warez, IRC or alt.binary.*.
Internet - WARNING: Use of fully-functional brain required during use of this product. Working with Internet without a fully-functional brain may lead to needlessly viewing pr0n, or mindlessly clicking through the yahoo directory searching for nothing in particular.
--
Rob, you're forcing me to login. You're forcing me to read those advertisements on top of your page. I'm not responsible - society has forced me to spend my hard-earned cash and turned me into a social reject. Now I'm forced into posting to slashdot and hitting reload several dozen times an hour. It's not my fault, I'm a victim of Rob Malda! Help, help! Somebody's forcing me to think independently! It hurts, make them stop!!!
--
The SPA considers software piracy wrong. Federal law says it's illegal. It's also widespread, and I haven't found many geeks that care what's written in the books - the software is free, the risk is low, and the information is infinitely reproduceable.
Is there any reason to think survellance won't follow the same logic? We may tell the NSA and CIA and everybody else what they can and cannot due, but the technology will still be used. As a computer-user, I gave up on the legal system a long time ago - it's hopelessly out of date and broken. I'm sure many gov't agencies view this in a similar light.
We can pass all the laws and legislation and make all the fuss we want and strip away everybody's rights to try to enforce that... but you'll still wind up in the same position whether you do that or not. We must address the underlying issues here - one of which is accountability. If you want to invade my privacy, I can't stop you... but if you use that information against me, there needs to be a clear, defined, and enforced method of repayment for the damage you've caused. If the NSA spies on thousands of "innocent" people, they should be held directly accountable for that. The question is... how?
True direct democracy would solve alot of these problems by replacing them with another set of problems. Your call.
--
I say largely because while your eyes aren't affected, your muscles are.. and they are responsible for up to 20% of your visual acuity if memory serves. So it's a good idea to take frequent breaks (for a variety of reasons - not just for your eyes), look away from the monitor every now and then (look far away, wait, look back) to get those muscles working, and eat a normal diet. The last one will work wonders for your energy levels and stuff... I find alot of geeks have less than stellar diets.. myself included. disclaimer: I'm a coder, not a doctor jim!
Hope you found this useful....
--
In a nutshell, it's still an infant technology, and the recommendation is to wait. If you can't wait, find a good doctor, and be sure to ask what his/her complication rate is - if he won't tell you drop him like a Intel 820 chipset.
There are quite a few complications.. and most people experience the so-called "halo" effect for several months after receiving the surgery. You'll also typically have to undergo multiple surgeries - mainly to "fine-tune" your vision. The procedure also isn't guaranteed to have you seeing 20/20... although between 20/20 and 20/40 is common. Some people (although uncommon) even get their vision corrected to better than normal.. as good as 20/10.
--
"Your codebooks were here. ~ J Random Hacker"
--
The greatest hack of all time may be that we're all laughing at you instead of with you and you don't even realize it yet. It's not "just" about hacking websites... it's about exploring the System. The system isn't just the online world you see, it's your reality. The media has had nearly unlimited power to shape our collective reality until now. Until now. Now the community is redefining what reality is, and exposing alot of facts that most would rather see buried.
Perhaps geeks are more paranoid than most because they know how far information manipulation can go... and infact see it on a daily basis. "Mistrust authority. Promote decentralization." Subversive? Us? Nah.
--
www.burningman.com... you forgot to remove that before you posted. Oops.
--
Did you put too much sugar on your rice crispies again this morning?
--
Interactive experience... probably defined as rocking the machine violently in 100 degree heat while the machine says "please deposit correct change".....
--
Oh great. Now instead of pouring salt-water in the tops of those things to short them out and get free pop I'll have to pour liquid nitrogen in them....
--
Don't know about pacbell, but US West was charging about $900/mo for just the circuit on a T1 plus about $1500 setup last time I looked.
--
Anyway, I like you kitsune, but don't go saying I was paying any attention to this thread. =) As it happens I was actually working, unlike some of you. *rimshot*
--
Confucious say, "when all is said and done, more is said than done." Such is the human equation.. it is unalterable. Instead focus on committing more people to the project than encouraging those who would rather say than do.
--
I hate seeing people reinvent the wheel a dozen times. I don't like the idea that I can't use an mp3 encoder for free - I have to pay somebody for it. I really hate the concept of "proprietary" because that slows everybody down - it slows me down, it slows the industry down, it slows the user down. it is for this reason and this reason alone I release my stuff under gpl. Because once I release it under GPL, the work is there for everybody to add and build on - and it also guarantees that both myself and my fellow coders don't have to recode things because They(tm) won't make their source under a free license. And to be honest - I'm alittle lazy too - I want to work on the interesting problems... and if somebody has already done half of my work I'm just happy as a clam to use it.
--
QT is GPL-incompatible, not the other way around. There is no reason why we need to start adding addendums to the GPL for every other license instead of just GPLing it (or BSDing it if you'd like commercial involvement in your code - ala MacOS X). So don't tell me this is the GPL's fault because it's not.
--