There is something you are missing, which is that the majority of Christians are not like the person in question. Remember that "Christian" is a very generic term, and there are some very large separations in beliefs. The Lutheran Reformation, the Protestant Reformation, etc.. should make it clear that there are some very fundamental differences between "Christians", these were bloody wars. That list does not even include peaceful separations like Baptists. That 2.2 billion number starts to change pretty drastically when you count how many of that 2.2 billion are zealots wanting to force their beliefs on someone else.
The majority of "Christians" don't care what you do, as long as you don't stop them from doing what they believe they should. Most Christians don't care if a person outside of their family or Church is gay, gets an abortion, they simply want to be allowed to believe in their Religion and practice their faith.
You are missing way to many qualifiers in your statement. The 14 year old having sex with another 14 year old resulting in pregnancy is not rape.
Your kind of branding and forcing to black and white has cause a lot of harm in society. We now have 17 year old kids being labelled as sex offenders for life because they were having sex with their 16 year 11 month old girl friends. We have 18 year old teens in the same boat with a 17 year 11 month old Girlfriend, or an 13 year old girl being labelled as a sex offender for having sex with a 12 year old boyfriend (Utah case where the victim was charged as both an offender and victim of statutory rape).
The guy and girl that are both drunk are not guilty of rape or victims of rape when sex occurs, and it's idiocy to blame one party when both were drunk. How is one party responsible for their acts when drunk and another is not? Logic does not work that way, and can't work that way. Making a black and white rule that Men must be rapists is illogical and irrational.
If two people meet at a shrinks office and both are suffering from a psychological disorder, and they end up having sex with each other who is the rapist and who is the victim? Again, you can't make black and white lines with such a broad brush. It's impossible for someone to always be a victim in sex, and perhaps you have some type of trauma that makes you believe that it is always so.
I would agree if you stated "it should be illegal for doctors to have sex with patients", or "teachers should not have sex with students", or "bosses should not have sex with employees", but even then there can be exceptions and we need common sense and not law. What happens if a professor in college has a spouse in their class? Or a family owned business? Or a Dentist's spouse needs an emergency filling? It's _not_always_black_and_white!
People just have not figured it out yet. This is more propaganda meant as slight of hand to distract people from _real_ issues. People buy in to it, and just have no clue. Meanwhile we have an economy in shambles (probably an overstatement), are at war with over 6 countries (covert wars count), a rigged election candidate on the R side, an increasing police state inside our borders, a president that believes in assassinating opposition without trial or records, and on and on and on.
The majority don't know the fact that DHS last month purchased over a billion rounds of ammunition, 750,000 rounds of Hollow point pistol ammo and the rest in mostly sniper rifle ammo. Nobody in main stream media is asking anyone why the Department of Homeland Security needs 2.5 rounds of hollow point pistol ammunition for every single US citizen (you don't use Hollow point ammo for target practice, DHS is only inside the US Border, and even if they were to give the ammo to the Military it's against the Geneva Convention to use Hollow point ammo). Main stream media won't talk about our financial issues, why no criminal charges have been brought against anyone in the banking industry for the proven frauds, etc.. etc.. , but they sure can bring up a circus act like this to keep people occupied and away from anything important.
Anyone that questions the Government is labelled crazy, ends up dead under odd circumstances, and the majority of US citizens are fucking clueless. We bicker about this kind of idiocy instead of asking the right questions and fixing what's obviously broken. People need to get a clue and quickly.
Maintenance on the drives is higher than tape, why not buy a nice LTO library so that you can keep all your cases off disk and hands off till needed? A tape drive may cost more, but no need to trash other cases with mountains of evidence also. Also costs go down as data increases.
It's not detrimental to anyone's interest if it's "Fair", quite the opposite is true if it's not. Jobs don't disappear with a fair tax, that is a fallacy that has been pushed out since Reagon. As true as it was then, it's still true now. Trickle down economics does not work, it never has worked, and never will work under our system of Government and Economic system.
I'm sure you probably believe the fallacy, but please investigate. Economists that make a living being economists mostly agree that it does not work, and has not worked. When the country started to go to massive shit financially is the same time Reagon pushed "trickle down", and it's been getting progressively worse. The middle class has nearly vanished from the US. Look at where the US ranks in wealth distribution world wide (151?) and where we are with poverty (more poor children in the US than in any other industrial nation). We have no funding for infrastructure which is why we have thousands of civil engineers yelling "We are falling apart!". Investigate yourself, don't take my word for it or believe a fallacy that someone has been telling you. Look at the US and the shape we are in!
Fixing the tax system won't fix all of our woes mind you, but hell it's going to take a whole lot of changes to make us healthy again. The same-ole same-ole sure is not making it better.
I think you should look up what the two terms mean and how classical education worked, this was the way we taught for a well over a thousand years until teaching to "standards" became the Government mandate. If you grew up after the 1950's, you would not have received the same type of education as your grand parents. Your grand parents would have learned under a very different method, just like you said they did. They would have learned to think, you would have learned to memorize.
My Grandparents were the ones that got me investigating how our education system changed.
I believe you misunderstand my post to begin with. Sorry, but there _are_ other theories, you just happen to not agree with them. They all relate to creation, so you choose to discount them. That is fine, and it's your right. This is part of the joy of having "Theories".
As I started with, if people can think and resolve answers what is the problem teaching every theory possible? Seriously, I have no biases since I'm smart enough to recognize good and bad theories. I personally happen to believe in evolution, but that does not give me the right to tell someone else they have no theory as you did. This is _your_ bigotry and _your_ bias in the way, not mine.
You came to a conclusion based on your beliefs, I came to a conclusion based on my beliefs. This is how theories work, and we look to expand our own theories. Instead of being a bigot, why not teach people to think critically and logically and let them come to their own conclusion?
Oh, and evolution does not explain everything. Two quick examples: 1) What causes life? and 2) What caused everything to begin? Because we are pretty clueless when it comes to both of those questions you have to give some credit to creationists since it's the only thing that can possibly answer those questions for now. As with other theories, whether you agree or not is not the point. 2,500 years of Philosophy have all stated that there must be a creator, including most modern scientists that investigate the question. Whether they believe a particular theology or not is a very different question, don't confuse the two.
Your whole and complete premise is based on something not true. We have never seen a mutation where a plant becomes an animal, or an amoeba becomes a paramecium. There is no fossil evidence possible that could show this occurred accurately either, we would have to observe this or something similar. If we see a fossil of a plant and animal stuck together, we assume it's 2 different items correct? Fossils can definitely be used to get, or to keep, us on track, and give us pointers. But to claim we have seen new species spring to life is a lie, as is saying we saw a bird mutate in to a new species of bird. (Be cautious with that one, we have seen the same species of bird vary quite a bit with evolution. The bird does not suddenly eat meat when it's vegetarian however, or grow a different kind of feather. The changes are often rather subtle and hard to detect). So we assume over time we can get to a new species.
In my opinion a logical hypothesis, but at the same time it is still "theory". To say that everyone else is wrong because you have a theory is rather unscientific, don't you think? The scientific method requires more work on the proof to remove all doubts, instead of doing what the first post did which was to jump on an ad hominem attack for anyone with a different theory.
And why not teach everything possible? If your theory is more logical don't you think more people would buy in to it? Instead, we have this race to chastise anyone that thinks differently. Isn't that the same thing that so called "people of science" chastise the Church for doing with flat earth theory? Hypocritical, and a shame that someone that claims to believe in science prescribes to.
The tax should be even at all levels of income, period end of statement. That is the Constitutional answer, as well as the most logical and "Fair". If I pay 13%, then some person making a bazillion dollars a year should pay 13%. If that person pays 10%, I pay 10%.
What we have in the US is drastically different, unfair, and unconstitutional. There are 60,000 plus pages of tax laws to back my statement.
We currently have a middle class paying upwards of 40% in taxes (FICA/Fed/State/City). We have the top 1% of wealth paying 10-17%, and that's only on the income they claim to make in the US. Now add Paul Ryan, who want's investment income to be free of all taxes. Do you see how unfair, and bigoted the tax system can get? Yes, it can get worse and probably will.
Fair taxes is not a new concern, and not a new answer. Ross Perot ran on a primary issue of "Flat Tax", and nearly won because people know that the system is broken and favoring those who have wealth (not to be confused with someone that is rich, see Chris Rock for the difference.) Sadly the blackmail, harassment, and other illegal activity that people got away with against Ross Perot dissuaded many good people from running as well.
We piss away hundreds of millions of dollars each year on useless trash, and then complain we can't afford Science. What a surprise right? I mean, just 2 weeks ago President Obama gave 25million dollars to the Rebels in Syria. That is just the most recent example of hundreds possible that does not include the Wars we are currently waging.
Let us face facts. The majority of people in Politics right now that care about 1 thing, and here is a clue: It sure as hell is not bettering our society. Keep defending the actions of the R and D people, it's helping us so much as a society.
By the way, the fix is to clean house. As a start go vote and push a button without a D or an R for everything possible in November. If they lie and cheat to stay in, we have bigger issues but at least we tried to clean house. If it works, we may have a bit of a chaotic start to 2013, but at least we have a chance to stop racing to the bottom.
So the bird became not a bird? Wholly fuck, reading and comprehension is basic, and you lack the skill. Did you read anything in the article other than the title? This is not a new species, it's the same species. This type of evolution is showing you exactly what Darwin did. Are you so ignorant and blind that you can't tell by looking at it that it's the same species of bird? This is what I stated very clearly we do know about, and have proof for.
Now when the bird becomes a vegetable, or the even half vegetable half bird please let me know. Even if the bird became a different bird, that would be pretty damn cool. Parrot becomes Eagle, right on man! That is what we have not seen, and lack evidence for. We have not seen this in any case, even single celled organisms. A plant does not become an animal, and an amoeba does not become a paramecium.. ever! That is the proof missing for the theory of evolution.
We have a massive amount of children taking medication in schools now, are you claiming that up until 15 years ago we had pandemic amounts of suicidal children? Your fallacy works both ways you know, and quite frankly we are proving to not be as smart as some think. Have we learned since then? Obviously not.. our education is proof of that. Further proof is people like you that seem to believe everything is just okay with what we are doing now.
I don't think there is as much problem with people understanding the theory as you think. The issue that most people have is that it's taught as a gospel, much like the first post accuses Religious people of doing. If it's a theory, it's not fact. This means that we have a long way to go to "prove" the theory. Is it a good theory? Sure it is.
So if we teach people the theory, and teach people other theories, and we teach them to think.. I believe that most people would be able to make a rational choice on which theory is most correct. Knowing it's theory, they may work to gather proof we currently lack and expand on the theory. As long as it's taught as "absolutely true" why would anyone want to investigate? This is basically brain washing, just like we have done with other theories. Some of which actually turned out to be absolutely false as well.
I would be willing to bet that there are a few zealots out there that deny science because of a Religious belief. I have never actually met any, so I'm assuming they are very rare. So not saying you or the first post are correct, but denying it's a majority of people that are Religious as you both suggest.
You are denying what is blatantly in your face? I know it is easy to play the ostrich, keeping your head in the sand pretending things don't exist. If you pretend you are an Ostrich, don't try and convince everyone else to bury their head in the sand next to yours.
Were they able to pass that law because of our failing education system? If we were a more educated society, would we have allowed it to happen? It's worth contemplating at least..
This is an evolution of a species, it's not like a mold spore became an amoeba. I was very clear on the distinction between the two types of evolution. We do know that a species can change, it often happens very very quickly. It is based on this knowledge, as well as fossils (and a few other things), that we believe that a species can evolve to become an entirely new species.
Go look up a debate with Dr Michio Kaku and a Sociologist that argues from your perspective. The US has to import massive amounts of people every year in order to have "Science". Listen to what he states regarding our Educational system, and our dependence on the H1B Visa for most of our Science and how this has been getting progressively worse.
I won't deny that Europe also moved to standards testing, hell look at the impact it's had on Germany in the last decade. They are becoming more like the US, and that's not necessarily a good thing.
Yes, I'm concerned with people being critical thinkers especially when someone like you types a sentence like "I love how you parrot alarmist shit with no real basis, and then talk about the need for "the ability of people to think logically, rationally, and critically."
It's a bullshit fallacy argument with no truth. There is plenty of scientific data that says we are way off course with Education in the US (as well as other countries that adopted similar models). This is why my kid went to private school and not public school.
If we look at changing the way we teach, we may actually get back on track. Why are you defending something that is obviously broken? And before you rant more about your Universities, the post I replied to was regarding "No Child Left Behind" which is grades k-12 education and has absolutely nothing to do with a Unversity.
You kind of echo what I state, but indirectly. Remember that up until the 50's, we taught very differently. The methods up until then were based on the Trivium and Quadrivium. Learn reading, writing, grammar, and basic math. From there you learn more advanced concepts. We taught debate and rhetoric at younger ages so that the populous was better able to think. In the 50's we drastically changed the way we taught people, and everything went to teaching only what was on a test.
Wow, not only fallacy but a blatant lie. Good for you! Continue to deny what's in science books in schools, on TV documentaries, all over countless Universities. At the same time, keep putting a Religious person in places where they don't exist.
It's funny how I never mentioned anything about Religion, and people just assume their own from my statements regarding teaching theories for what they are.
Fossils are good and often interesting, but not proof. Hell we have fossils of miners that were made in the 1800s that look to be a few million years old. This is like claiming "carbon dating is 100% accurate" as many people do. Sadly it's not, and instead of looking to improve what we use to measure or change our methods to increase accuracy, people simply argue "it's good enough" or worse deny there are any problems with the methods we currently use.
We have made mutations of species, but we have yet to prove anything of the sort exists in nature. Keep buying the fallacy though. Pointing me to a bunch of hypothesis on a web page does not help your position, nor will it change your belief in the fallacy.
As stated above this not meant to claim the theories regarding evolution are wrong but rather to point out that they are theories. This points out the obvious hypocritical nature of people claiming that other theories can't be taught because the theory you believe in is better. Did you miss completely the part where I stated to teach both and teach people to think so that they could decide instead of being spoon fed an answer that may not be correct? I'm guessing that people are so bigoted that is most definitely the case.
There is also no scientific proof that we have evolution from one species to another. Come up with one, and the debate would end and people would be able to rationally answer the question without the typical "My theory is better than your theory". See how that works? You do realize that evolution is not a fact, hence subject the same treatment as other theories. I'm guessing you don't get that, because you believe it's all factual. Notice the operative term there.. "believe".
I hate to break the news to you, but that is not the problem with the education system at all. You are looking at a very recent stupid idea that was added to a system that was already in such bad shape we are the laughing stock of the industrial world.
Go back a bit further in time, and find out when we started teaching to "Standards Testing" and "Memorization" instead of teaching kids to think and explore. You'll have to go back to the 50s, but it's there. The collapse of the US Education system is so blatantly obvious when you look for the answer instead of repeating what other people tell you is the problem.
We don't teach people to think any longer, we teach them to memorize data and repeat data. This stifles the creative process as well as limits the ability of people to think logically, rationally, and critically. If you want samples, just look at the incredible amount of fallacy used here on/. where it's a site for "nerds". It's not even good fallacy, it's extremely basic and obvious so it's not like people are trying to make good rhetorical arguments.
It's okay to teach evolution even though we have absolutely no samples of evolution of a species, only variations in species, but we can't teach alternative theories? I'm not stating evolution of species is not possible mind you, but that we have no proof so need treat the theories for what they are.
For over 50 years we have forced people into believing that "The Big Bang" was fact, and you know as well as I do that it's not even a good rational theory! In fact the latest particle physics completely debunks the Big Bang all together, yet we are still teaching this as fact (And I bet several people reply to this and claim it is fact).
As the old saying goes "Give a man a fish and feed him for a day, teach a man to fish and feed him for life." This is what we need to think more about in schools, but rather "Teach them to think for themselves so that they can spend their life exploring". Give them any theory you want. If they can think, they will look for answers on their own. Teach them the Scientific method, and you will teach them to try and prove their answers rationally instead of just repeating what people tell them (which often turns out to be untrue).
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Thanks for the clarifications, our opinions seem to agree.
There is something you are missing, which is that the majority of Christians are not like the person in question. Remember that "Christian" is a very generic term, and there are some very large separations in beliefs. The Lutheran Reformation, the Protestant Reformation, etc.. should make it clear that there are some very fundamental differences between "Christians", these were bloody wars. That list does not even include peaceful separations like Baptists. That 2.2 billion number starts to change pretty drastically when you count how many of that 2.2 billion are zealots wanting to force their beliefs on someone else.
The majority of "Christians" don't care what you do, as long as you don't stop them from doing what they believe they should. Most Christians don't care if a person outside of their family or Church is gay, gets an abortion, they simply want to be allowed to believe in their Religion and practice their faith.
You are missing way to many qualifiers in your statement. The 14 year old having sex with another 14 year old resulting in pregnancy is not rape.
Your kind of branding and forcing to black and white has cause a lot of harm in society. We now have 17 year old kids being labelled as sex offenders for life because they were having sex with their 16 year 11 month old girl friends. We have 18 year old teens in the same boat with a 17 year 11 month old Girlfriend, or an 13 year old girl being labelled as a sex offender for having sex with a 12 year old boyfriend (Utah case where the victim was charged as both an offender and victim of statutory rape).
The guy and girl that are both drunk are not guilty of rape or victims of rape when sex occurs, and it's idiocy to blame one party when both were drunk. How is one party responsible for their acts when drunk and another is not? Logic does not work that way, and can't work that way. Making a black and white rule that Men must be rapists is illogical and irrational.
If two people meet at a shrinks office and both are suffering from a psychological disorder, and they end up having sex with each other who is the rapist and who is the victim? Again, you can't make black and white lines with such a broad brush. It's impossible for someone to always be a victim in sex, and perhaps you have some type of trauma that makes you believe that it is always so.
I would agree if you stated "it should be illegal for doctors to have sex with patients", or "teachers should not have sex with students", or "bosses should not have sex with employees", but even then there can be exceptions and we need common sense and not law. What happens if a professor in college has a spouse in their class? Or a family owned business? Or a Dentist's spouse needs an emergency filling? It's _not_always_black_and_white!
People just have not figured it out yet. This is more propaganda meant as slight of hand to distract people from _real_ issues. People buy in to it, and just have no clue. Meanwhile we have an economy in shambles (probably an overstatement), are at war with over 6 countries (covert wars count), a rigged election candidate on the R side, an increasing police state inside our borders, a president that believes in assassinating opposition without trial or records, and on and on and on.
The majority don't know the fact that DHS last month purchased over a billion rounds of ammunition, 750,000 rounds of Hollow point pistol ammo and the rest in mostly sniper rifle ammo. Nobody in main stream media is asking anyone why the Department of Homeland Security needs 2.5 rounds of hollow point pistol ammunition for every single US citizen (you don't use Hollow point ammo for target practice, DHS is only inside the US Border, and even if they were to give the ammo to the Military it's against the Geneva Convention to use Hollow point ammo). Main stream media won't talk about our financial issues, why no criminal charges have been brought against anyone in the banking industry for the proven frauds, etc.. etc.. , but they sure can bring up a circus act like this to keep people occupied and away from anything important.
Anyone that questions the Government is labelled crazy, ends up dead under odd circumstances, and the majority of US citizens are fucking clueless. We bicker about this kind of idiocy instead of asking the right questions and fixing what's obviously broken. People need to get a clue and quickly.
Maintenance on the drives is higher than tape, why not buy a nice LTO library so that you can keep all your cases off disk and hands off till needed? A tape drive may cost more, but no need to trash other cases with mountains of evidence also. Also costs go down as data increases.
It's not detrimental to anyone's interest if it's "Fair", quite the opposite is true if it's not. Jobs don't disappear with a fair tax, that is a fallacy that has been pushed out since Reagon. As true as it was then, it's still true now. Trickle down economics does not work, it never has worked, and never will work under our system of Government and Economic system.
I'm sure you probably believe the fallacy, but please investigate. Economists that make a living being economists mostly agree that it does not work, and has not worked. When the country started to go to massive shit financially is the same time Reagon pushed "trickle down", and it's been getting progressively worse. The middle class has nearly vanished from the US. Look at where the US ranks in wealth distribution world wide (151?) and where we are with poverty (more poor children in the US than in any other industrial nation). We have no funding for infrastructure which is why we have thousands of civil engineers yelling "We are falling apart!". Investigate yourself, don't take my word for it or believe a fallacy that someone has been telling you. Look at the US and the shape we are in!
Fixing the tax system won't fix all of our woes mind you, but hell it's going to take a whole lot of changes to make us healthy again. The same-ole same-ole sure is not making it better.
I think you should look up what the two terms mean and how classical education worked, this was the way we taught for a well over a thousand years until teaching to "standards" became the Government mandate. If you grew up after the 1950's, you would not have received the same type of education as your grand parents. Your grand parents would have learned under a very different method, just like you said they did. They would have learned to think, you would have learned to memorize.
My Grandparents were the ones that got me investigating how our education system changed.
I believe you misunderstand my post to begin with. Sorry, but there _are_ other theories, you just happen to not agree with them. They all relate to creation, so you choose to discount them. That is fine, and it's your right. This is part of the joy of having "Theories".
As I started with, if people can think and resolve answers what is the problem teaching every theory possible? Seriously, I have no biases since I'm smart enough to recognize good and bad theories. I personally happen to believe in evolution, but that does not give me the right to tell someone else they have no theory as you did. This is _your_ bigotry and _your_ bias in the way, not mine.
You came to a conclusion based on your beliefs, I came to a conclusion based on my beliefs. This is how theories work, and we look to expand our own theories. Instead of being a bigot, why not teach people to think critically and logically and let them come to their own conclusion?
Oh, and evolution does not explain everything. Two quick examples: 1) What causes life? and 2) What caused everything to begin? Because we are pretty clueless when it comes to both of those questions you have to give some credit to creationists since it's the only thing that can possibly answer those questions for now. As with other theories, whether you agree or not is not the point. 2,500 years of Philosophy have all stated that there must be a creator, including most modern scientists that investigate the question. Whether they believe a particular theology or not is a very different question, don't confuse the two.
Your whole and complete premise is based on something not true. We have never seen a mutation where a plant becomes an animal, or an amoeba becomes a paramecium. There is no fossil evidence possible that could show this occurred accurately either, we would have to observe this or something similar. If we see a fossil of a plant and animal stuck together, we assume it's 2 different items correct? Fossils can definitely be used to get, or to keep, us on track, and give us pointers. But to claim we have seen new species spring to life is a lie, as is saying we saw a bird mutate in to a new species of bird. (Be cautious with that one, we have seen the same species of bird vary quite a bit with evolution. The bird does not suddenly eat meat when it's vegetarian however, or grow a different kind of feather. The changes are often rather subtle and hard to detect). So we assume over time we can get to a new species.
In my opinion a logical hypothesis, but at the same time it is still "theory". To say that everyone else is wrong because you have a theory is rather unscientific, don't you think? The scientific method requires more work on the proof to remove all doubts, instead of doing what the first post did which was to jump on an ad hominem attack for anyone with a different theory.
And why not teach everything possible? If your theory is more logical don't you think more people would buy in to it? Instead, we have this race to chastise anyone that thinks differently. Isn't that the same thing that so called "people of science" chastise the Church for doing with flat earth theory? Hypocritical, and a shame that someone that claims to believe in science prescribes to.
The tax should be even at all levels of income, period end of statement. That is the Constitutional answer, as well as the most logical and "Fair". If I pay 13%, then some person making a bazillion dollars a year should pay 13%. If that person pays 10%, I pay 10%.
What we have in the US is drastically different, unfair, and unconstitutional. There are 60,000 plus pages of tax laws to back my statement.
We currently have a middle class paying upwards of 40% in taxes (FICA/Fed/State/City). We have the top 1% of wealth paying 10-17%, and that's only on the income they claim to make in the US. Now add Paul Ryan, who want's investment income to be free of all taxes. Do you see how unfair, and bigoted the tax system can get? Yes, it can get worse and probably will.
Fair taxes is not a new concern, and not a new answer. Ross Perot ran on a primary issue of "Flat Tax", and nearly won because people know that the system is broken and favoring those who have wealth (not to be confused with someone that is rich, see Chris Rock for the difference.) Sadly the blackmail, harassment, and other illegal activity that people got away with against Ross Perot dissuaded many good people from running as well.
We piss away hundreds of millions of dollars each year on useless trash, and then complain we can't afford Science. What a surprise right? I mean, just 2 weeks ago President Obama gave 25million dollars to the Rebels in Syria. That is just the most recent example of hundreds possible that does not include the Wars we are currently waging.
Let us face facts. The majority of people in Politics right now that care about 1 thing, and here is a clue: It sure as hell is not bettering our society. Keep defending the actions of the R and D people, it's helping us so much as a society.
By the way, the fix is to clean house. As a start go vote and push a button without a D or an R for everything possible in November. If they lie and cheat to stay in, we have bigger issues but at least we tried to clean house. If it works, we may have a bit of a chaotic start to 2013, but at least we have a chance to stop racing to the bottom.
So the bird became not a bird? Wholly fuck, reading and comprehension is basic, and you lack the skill. Did you read anything in the article other than the title? This is not a new species, it's the same species. This type of evolution is showing you exactly what Darwin did. Are you so ignorant and blind that you can't tell by looking at it that it's the same species of bird? This is what I stated very clearly we do know about, and have proof for.
Now when the bird becomes a vegetable, or the even half vegetable half bird please let me know. Even if the bird became a different bird, that would be pretty damn cool. Parrot becomes Eagle, right on man! That is what we have not seen, and lack evidence for. We have not seen this in any case, even single celled organisms. A plant does not become an animal, and an amoeba does not become a paramecium.. ever! That is the proof missing for the theory of evolution.
We have a massive amount of children taking medication in schools now, are you claiming that up until 15 years ago we had pandemic amounts of suicidal children? Your fallacy works both ways you know, and quite frankly we are proving to not be as smart as some think. Have we learned since then? Obviously not.. our education is proof of that. Further proof is people like you that seem to believe everything is just okay with what we are doing now.
I don't think there is as much problem with people understanding the theory as you think. The issue that most people have is that it's taught as a gospel, much like the first post accuses Religious people of doing. If it's a theory, it's not fact. This means that we have a long way to go to "prove" the theory. Is it a good theory? Sure it is.
So if we teach people the theory, and teach people other theories, and we teach them to think.. I believe that most people would be able to make a rational choice on which theory is most correct. Knowing it's theory, they may work to gather proof we currently lack and expand on the theory. As long as it's taught as "absolutely true" why would anyone want to investigate? This is basically brain washing, just like we have done with other theories. Some of which actually turned out to be absolutely false as well.
I would be willing to bet that there are a few zealots out there that deny science because of a Religious belief. I have never actually met any, so I'm assuming they are very rare. So not saying you or the first post are correct, but denying it's a majority of people that are Religious as you both suggest.
Anyone that does not back an atheist position is a Troll on /., how odd that I was initially modded quite differently.
To whomever changed the scoring, Please to pound sand up your asshole!
I think your tinfoil hat is on a bit too tight.
You are denying what is blatantly in your face? I know it is easy to play the ostrich, keeping your head in the sand pretending things don't exist. If you pretend you are an Ostrich, don't try and convince everyone else to bury their head in the sand next to yours.
Were they able to pass that law because of our failing education system? If we were a more educated society, would we have allowed it to happen? It's worth contemplating at least..
This is an evolution of a species, it's not like a mold spore became an amoeba. I was very clear on the distinction between the two types of evolution. We do know that a species can change, it often happens very very quickly. It is based on this knowledge, as well as fossils (and a few other things), that we believe that a species can evolve to become an entirely new species.
Go look up a debate with Dr Michio Kaku and a Sociologist that argues from your perspective. The US has to import massive amounts of people every year in order to have "Science". Listen to what he states regarding our Educational system, and our dependence on the H1B Visa for most of our Science and how this has been getting progressively worse.
I won't deny that Europe also moved to standards testing, hell look at the impact it's had on Germany in the last decade. They are becoming more like the US, and that's not necessarily a good thing.
Yes, I'm concerned with people being critical thinkers especially when someone like you types a sentence like "I love how you parrot alarmist shit with no real basis, and then talk about the need for "the ability of people to think logically, rationally, and critically."
It's a bullshit fallacy argument with no truth. There is plenty of scientific data that says we are way off course with Education in the US (as well as other countries that adopted similar models). This is why my kid went to private school and not public school.
If we look at changing the way we teach, we may actually get back on track. Why are you defending something that is obviously broken? And before you rant more about your Universities, the post I replied to was regarding "No Child Left Behind" which is grades k-12 education and has absolutely nothing to do with a Unversity.
You kind of echo what I state, but indirectly. Remember that up until the 50's, we taught very differently. The methods up until then were based on the Trivium and Quadrivium. Learn reading, writing, grammar, and basic math. From there you learn more advanced concepts. We taught debate and rhetoric at younger ages so that the populous was better able to think. In the 50's we drastically changed the way we taught people, and everything went to teaching only what was on a test.
Wow, not only fallacy but a blatant lie. Good for you! Continue to deny what's in science books in schools, on TV documentaries, all over countless Universities. At the same time, keep putting a Religious person in places where they don't exist.
It's funny how I never mentioned anything about Religion, and people just assume their own from my statements regarding teaching theories for what they are.
Fossils are good and often interesting, but not proof. Hell we have fossils of miners that were made in the 1800s that look to be a few million years old. This is like claiming "carbon dating is 100% accurate" as many people do. Sadly it's not, and instead of looking to improve what we use to measure or change our methods to increase accuracy, people simply argue "it's good enough" or worse deny there are any problems with the methods we currently use.
We have made mutations of species, but we have yet to prove anything of the sort exists in nature. Keep buying the fallacy though. Pointing me to a bunch of hypothesis on a web page does not help your position, nor will it change your belief in the fallacy.
As stated above this not meant to claim the theories regarding evolution are wrong but rather to point out that they are theories. This points out the obvious hypocritical nature of people claiming that other theories can't be taught because the theory you believe in is better. Did you miss completely the part where I stated to teach both and teach people to think so that they could decide instead of being spoon fed an answer that may not be correct? I'm guessing that people are so bigoted that is most definitely the case.
There is also no scientific proof that we have evolution from one species to another. Come up with one, and the debate would end and people would be able to rationally answer the question without the typical "My theory is better than your theory". See how that works? You do realize that evolution is not a fact, hence subject the same treatment as other theories. I'm guessing you don't get that, because you believe it's all factual. Notice the operative term there.. "believe".
I hate to break the news to you, but that is not the problem with the education system at all. You are looking at a very recent stupid idea that was added to a system that was already in such bad shape we are the laughing stock of the industrial world.
Go back a bit further in time, and find out when we started teaching to "Standards Testing" and "Memorization" instead of teaching kids to think and explore. You'll have to go back to the 50s, but it's there. The collapse of the US Education system is so blatantly obvious when you look for the answer instead of repeating what other people tell you is the problem.
We don't teach people to think any longer, we teach them to memorize data and repeat data. This stifles the creative process as well as limits the ability of people to think logically, rationally, and critically. If you want samples, just look at the incredible amount of fallacy used here on /. where it's a site for "nerds". It's not even good fallacy, it's extremely basic and obvious so it's not like people are trying to make good rhetorical arguments.
It's okay to teach evolution even though we have absolutely no samples of evolution of a species, only variations in species, but we can't teach alternative theories? I'm not stating evolution of species is not possible mind you, but that we have no proof so need treat the theories for what they are.
For over 50 years we have forced people into believing that "The Big Bang" was fact, and you know as well as I do that it's not even a good rational theory! In fact the latest particle physics completely debunks the Big Bang all together, yet we are still teaching this as fact (And I bet several people reply to this and claim it is fact).
As the old saying goes "Give a man a fish and feed him for a day, teach a man to fish and feed him for life." This is what we need to think more about in schools, but rather "Teach them to think for themselves so that they can spend their life exploring". Give them any theory you want. If they can think, they will look for answers on their own. Teach them the Scientific method, and you will teach them to try and prove their answers rationally instead of just repeating what people tell them (which often turns out to be untrue).