There can be no doubt that God is a hateful, venegeful, and destructive bastard. He kills millions of people in the bible. He instructs people to kill their enemies, to kill their wives and children, to kill their animals and to salt the earth so that even their plants die.
In other occations he does the killing himself. At one point he floods the earth in order to destroy all life on it except one family and some animals.
With God being so cruel, hateful, petty, and downright psychotic one wonders if the devil can possibly be worse.
Where in the bible does it say that satan killed women and children?
I am sure that when god comes back he will start his murdering spree afresh.
The bible is a big book with many words in it. It has so many words and so many contradicting sentences that you can back up any position using the bible. War or Peace, slavery or freedom, kindsness or venegance. It's all there.
There are two extremes. One extreme says no war is worth it. Jesus takes this extreme and John Stuart Mills rails against this in your quote.
Another extreme to reach for war as your first and primary tool when you want to control the natural resources of another country. George Bush takes this extreme.
"Perhaps it's time to stop valuing the lives of Palestinian civilians and start using heavy-handed tactics, even if that leads to civilian causalities, to act like the terrorists who blow up innocent women and children instead of going out of our way to prevent civilian causalities at any cost."
The news story says 11 killed including some women and children.
"Israel claims they acted in self-defense, which wasn't refuted."
Israel always claims it's acting in self defense. Would they actually admit that they kill palestenians to get more votes?
"I'm not seeing anything close to parity with the hundreds of Israeli civilians murdered in Palestinian terror attacks."
Israel kills 10 palestenians for evey israeli killed. They have a name for this policy it's called "an eye for a tooth". Whenever an israeli citizen gets killed helicopter and tanks launch shells at cities destroying buildings and humans.
"Sorry, moral equivalence doesn't work here. Show me Israeli teenagers blowing up Palestinian pizza restaurants or gunning down pregnant women, and I'll reconsider."
If the palestenians had helicopters and tanks they would fire missiles into israeli cities. They don't have that so they do the best they can.
Morally both the israelis and the palestenians are murderous terrorists who are posessed by the devil and thrive on the blood of their enemies. Israelis are better armed and better funded so they use better weapons and kill more people. Politicians from both governments have called for genocide and ethinic cleansing. They are both driven by religious fundamentalism. They are both advocates of torture. Neither side recognizes international law or common decency.
There is no difference between israelis and palestenians. They are equally evil.
Muslims have already been rounded up. Homosexuals are probably the next target. Jews will probably after the war against muslims and homosexuals have been won.
"Wake up -- this is the same administration that ignored warnings of 9/11. Why do we keep rewarding this secretive, authoritarian, and incompetent administration?"
Because a republican would rather slit his own wrist then vote for a democrat no matter how shitty the republican candidate is or how much they disagree with him.
GW has done a lot of very "un republican" things. Spending like a drunken sailor, creating a brand new govt agency (and a huge one at that), protectionism for loggers, farmers and steel industry etc. You'd think that the so called conservatives would be howling at the outregous deficits and uncontrolled spending but they have been silent by and large. Why? Two reasons. 1) under GW homosexuals will not be able to get married. 2) GW will give billions to churches as a part of his "faith based" programs.
"In fact, I'll go as far as this, Microsoft has submitted to codebases to the community now. How many people can stand up here and claim to have submitted more than Microsoft has? In many ways, Microsoft is a better member of the community than a lot of people reading this right now."
There are more ways to contribute then just code. Many people here have worked with developers to solve tricky bugs, written documentation, hung out at listserves and answered questions and yes acted as evangelists for their own pet project.
I tell you one thing though. Except for the MS astro turfers most people here never claimed open source was un american or a cancer or communist. How you can claim that MS loves open source and this community is beyond me. Just listen to their leaders for gods sake.
Why not? Oracle does. Everybody else does? Is adobe so stupid that they can't put together an RPM? Is putting together an RPM that much harder then using some other installer?
"Innovation."
Fuck innovation. Apple innovates more then anybody and they only own 5% of the market. MS steals other peoples ideas and owns 95%. Why emulate the loser? Steal other peoples ideas and improve on them and then call it innovation that's what microsoft does.
"One sane programming library."
Huh? You can use.NET or java so what the hell is your problem? How do youplan on achieving this goal anyway? Are you going to beat developers who use python? Are you going to remove gcc from the distros? How do you plan on forcing developers to use the language you like and abandon the languages they like? Please present a plan.
"The removal of X."
Sigh. Yet another retread of this stupid whine. I won't even bother.
"Finally, an ATTITUDE CHANGE. Linux zealots kill Linux adoption"
WOW. Did I miss the news? Is linux adoption slowing down? Has it stopped? What kind of reality distortion field are you living in? Linux adoption is growing every year. The growth of linux over the last two years has been nothing short of explosive and shows no sign of slowing down. What the fuck are you talking about? Show me some study that says linux adoption is slowing and it's due to "zealots".
If zealots are so bad why does MS fund professional astro turfers? Is zealots are so bad how come every MS employee is encouraged to set up a blog and sing the praises of windows?
What linux needs to get rid of are people like you. People who bitch, moan, whine, complain, and carp without ever once lifting a finget to help.
" This is what I hate about Near East poltics, there's really not standard for good behavior"
There is a universal standard of good behavior. It's odd that the birthplace of the three major religions has lost that point.
BTW the Turks have been around since about 200BC when they called themselves Huns. They were clustered around the caspain sea which is not too far away from their current location.
Of course none of that matters much. You can't justify killing and torturing people by saying that their ancestors were somehow illegitimate.
I see no difference between arial sharon and yasser arafat. They are both terrorists and war criminals. They are both guilty of unspeakable crimes against humanity. They both should be imprisoned for the rest of their lives in a horrible place like gitmo.
My point is that they both should be treated the same way. We should not reward one demon while punishing the other.
The standard for humanity is not to be better then saddam hussein and the standard for a nation is not to be better then syria. Being better then syria is nothing to be proud of is it? Why not strive to be a true democracy which treats all it's citizens equally and does not occupy millions of people under a brutal apartheid.
I don't support palestenians. I just want my govt to stop giving money to israel. I want to stop my govt from spending my money protecting israel which does not need protection because they are a nuclear power run by a ruthless war criminal. This has nothing to do with palestenians, I don't give a shit about them either.
The schools in my town need money. I want those billions spent on israel plowign my streets and buying books for my schools. Get it?
Look up the figures. Israel gets more foreign aid from the US then the rest of the world combined.
"Without the money they may eventually be slaughtered by their neighbors. "
Let me state unequavically that I don't give a shit if israelis get killed. Just as I didn't give a shit when saddam gassed the kurds or when the taliban killed everybody in sight.
Having said that I think it's ridiculus for you to suggest that a country with estimated 300 nuclear weapons would be killed by their enemies. Israel is the most powerful country in the world because attacking israel will mean that the US will bomb the shit out of your country. If any country dared to attack israel we would commit genocide so complete it would make hitlers look like childs play.
"My point. Your Gov pisses away money anyways, why not support the underdog, the lesser of two evils. Not significantly lesser but lesser all the same. What else would your Gov spend on?invade another country?"
If we were going to support the underdogs we'd be supporting palestenians. If we were going to support lesser of two evils we'd at least support somebody who has something we want like oil or something.
We might invade another country if the Bush approval numbers don't rise above 50% pretty soon. the only time his approval rate has been higher then disaproval were during war. He might invade syria or iran to win the election. Of course if he can trot out osama bin laden then that would do it too.
I for one would prefer my govt spend my money educating our own kids and fixing my own roads.
" First, name the other democracies in the Middle East."
Turkey. Not only is Turkey a democracy it's also a secular one.
Iran was a democracy till we installed the shah. You remember that?
Finally and this is very important so pay attention.
Israel is not really a democracy. It's a theo-democracy. It's a democracy like thing built on top of a theocratic dogma. Israel is first and foremost a zionist state. That means the all other values including democracy are secondary to the fullfillment of zion.
This is why Israel has not made the palestenians citizens after it has invaded their country. This is why there are jewish only neighborhoods in israel. This is why an israeli citizen can be exiled if they marry a palestenians.
Israel is the fulfillment of Gods prophesy and promise to jews. Gods will overrides human decency and human rights. When god tells you that you have to build a house on some plot of land you do it, you don't care if that land belongs to somebody else.
I am glad you have set your sights so low. I am also happy to see you admit that Israel is no different then the terrorists regimes that surround it. Apparently the people of Israel strive to be no worse then communist russia. That's just dandy.
Now back to my original point.
Why are we giving billions of dollars of aid to people who are no different then the terrorist palestenians? What's in it for us?
First of all you are talking about trade. Trade deficits are bad. They help them more then they help us.
I am talking about us foreign aid. Not trade. Foreign aid is charity given by the US because people are destitute, starving or because we feel somehow justified in giving our money away.
Nobody has ever convinced me that giving charity to israel is justified. They are not destitute, they are not starving, they don't need our help and they give us back nothing in return.
"Interesting. And what country would that be? Palestine? Never existed as a seperate country."
Yadda Yadda Yadda. Somehow you miss the obvious point. Human beings were living in what is called Israel. Those human beings had lived there for thousands of years. Generation after generation of people called that place home.
Those people were FUCKED by the british, the UN, the jews and the israelis.
You want to pretend that a jew born and raised in Chicago has as much or more right to a plot of land then a 10th generation palestanian the you are without morals.
No it's not. They hate israel because israel was formed in their land. There was no israel and then there was one. The people that used to live there got fucked.
They also hate israel because israel is currently occupying 3.5 million people. These people are for all practical purposes domesticated animals to the state of israel. They live within Israeli borders and yet they have no legal rights whatsoever.
They also hate israel because israel kills around a thousand people per year like clockwork. They also destroy hundreds of homes and wound thousands of people.
They also hate israel because israel routinely rounds up men and tortures them in prisons without access to lawyers and without charging them with a crime.
They hate the US because the US approves, condones, and helps israel occupy palestenians.
The arabs don't hate everyone. They don't hate the chinese, they don't hate canadians, they don't hate germans, they don't hate swedes, they don't hate finns, they don't hate russians, they don't hate turks etc. They hate israel because they have reason to hate israel. They hate the US because they have reason to hate the US. You can bury your head in the sand and pretend otherwise but that's the reality.
I'll say it again.
What israel is doing is illegal, immoral and uncivilized. In no framework of justice or morality is it acceptable to keep 3.5 million people under such opression. It's not right and you can't justify it.
You say that Israelis are richer and more educated then it's neighbors. Ok. So what? How does that help America? Is this really surprising given the amount of money We give to israel? If you were to add up the money the US govt gives israel and the private US citizens give israel it would be hundreds of billions of dollars.
So they take this money, educate their kids, invent stuff, manufacture stuff, and sell it to us. How does that help us? I can see why it's great for israel but why is it great for me?
"Did you miss what I said about security? Israel is the buffer zone between us and the terrorists."
This is a flat our lie. Israel is the cause of terrorism. It's the reason arabs hate us. It's the number one reason there has not been peace in the middle east.
"Also, the squalid "refugee" camps of poor Arabs must be sustained and kept in such condition to keep international pressure on Israel's "oppression and occupation.""
Israel should lift it's occupation. It's illegal, immoral and evil to occupy people against their will. There is no justification for it.
"Also, it should be noted that a lot of the money the U.S. gives to Israel are loans. "
This is a lie. The US gives around 12 billon dollars of AID to israel not loans. We also spend billions more in developing technology to defend them. They don't pay back a cent of that.
"You're not understanding the geopolitical ramifications of having a liberal democracy in the heart of the Middle East"
I understand perfectly. I am under no delusion that Israel is a benefit to the middle east or to the world at large. Everyboy hates is israel ecept the US. They are lawless country. They have given themselves to kill anybody they want any time they want for any reason they want. They have a huge stockpile of nuclear weapons, they have a state policy of turture and incarceration without charges or trials. Israel is a rogue state with hundreds of nuclear weapons. One day they will turn on us.
"Maybe Intel chips designed by a few engineers in Israel provide millions of jobs in America in other sectors of the computer industry."
Or maybe it would provide even more jobs if all the work is done here, have you thought of that.
"It is good for America that our staunchest ally be strong and prosperous."
Israel is not our staunches ally, it's the other way around. The relationship between the Israel and the US is parasitic. Nothing you have told me contradicts that.
You love israel, the israelis are rich and educated, the israelis manufacture stuff and sell it to us. None of this helps me.
Why don't we give that money taiwan instead. They too are educated, rich, make cool stuff and sell it to us. As a bonus they don't invade and occupy countries and kill thousands of people every year.
"If you want to commit exactly the same crimes, why bother even protecting the US"
If the US was invaded there would be no more principles left to defend. All is fair when you have been invaded. This goes double if the invading army is routinely killing civllians BTW.
" Excessive bail shall not be required, nor excessive fines imposed, nor cruel and unusual punishment inflicted. "
They are talking about citizens during peacetime. If you can't make that distinction then don't even bother talking to me.
If the US invaded I suspect people like you will act as collaborators and spy on your fellow citizens.
Slashdot Mirror
There can be no doubt that God is a hateful, venegeful, and destructive bastard. He kills millions of people in the bible. He instructs people to kill their enemies, to kill their wives and children, to kill their animals and to salt the earth so that even their plants die.
In other occations he does the killing himself. At one point he floods the earth in order to destroy all life on it except one family and some animals.
With God being so cruel, hateful, petty, and downright psychotic one wonders if the devil can possibly be worse.
Where in the bible does it say that satan killed women and children?
I am sure that when god comes back he will start his murdering spree afresh.
"Jesus takes the extreme of telling individuals not to retaliate when insulted. He says nothing about war"
I guess all that about loving your enemies and turning the other cheek was just bullshit huh?
The bible is a big book with many words in it. It has so many words and so many contradicting sentences that you can back up any position using the bible. War or Peace, slavery or freedom, kindsness or venegance. It's all there.
There are two extremes. One extreme says no war is worth it. Jesus takes this extreme and John Stuart Mills rails against this in your quote.
Another extreme to reach for war as your first and primary tool when you want to control the natural resources of another country. George Bush takes this extreme.
So in a nutshell.
Jesus on one extreme, George Bush on the other.
Most people are in the middle.
"Perhaps it's time to stop valuing the lives of Palestinian civilians and start using heavy-handed tactics, even if that leads to civilian causalities, to act like the terrorists who blow up innocent women and children instead of going out of our way to prevent civilian causalities at any cost."
Commentary in Jerusalem Post.
"4 killed"
The news story says 11 killed including some women and children.
"Israel claims they acted in self-defense, which wasn't refuted."
Israel always claims it's acting in self defense. Would they actually admit that they kill palestenians to get more votes?
"I'm not seeing anything close to parity with the hundreds of Israeli civilians murdered in Palestinian terror attacks."
Israel kills 10 palestenians for evey israeli killed. They have a name for this policy it's called "an eye for a tooth". Whenever an israeli citizen gets killed helicopter and tanks launch shells at cities destroying buildings and humans.
"Sorry, moral equivalence doesn't work here. Show me Israeli teenagers blowing up Palestinian pizza restaurants or gunning down pregnant women, and I'll reconsider."
If the palestenians had helicopters and tanks they would fire missiles into israeli cities. They don't have that so they do the best they can.
Morally both the israelis and the palestenians are murderous terrorists who are posessed by the devil and thrive on the blood of their enemies. Israelis are better armed and better funded so they use better weapons and kill more people. Politicians from both governments have called for genocide and ethinic cleansing. They are both driven by religious fundamentalism. They are both advocates of torture. Neither side recognizes international law or common decency.
There is no difference between israelis and palestenians. They are equally evil.
Muslims have already been rounded up. Homosexuals are probably the next target. Jews will probably after the war against muslims and homosexuals have been won.
"Wake up -- this is the same administration that ignored warnings of 9/11. Why do we keep rewarding this secretive, authoritarian, and incompetent administration?"
Because a republican would rather slit his own wrist then vote for a democrat no matter how shitty the republican candidate is or how much they disagree with him.
GW has done a lot of very "un republican" things. Spending like a drunken sailor, creating a brand new govt agency (and a huge one at that), protectionism for loggers, farmers and steel industry etc. You'd think that the so called conservatives would be howling at the outregous deficits and uncontrolled spending but they have been silent by and large. Why? Two reasons. 1) under GW homosexuals will not be able to get married. 2) GW will give billions to churches as a part of his "faith based" programs.
It's all about God when it comes to republicans.
Amazing that a country would trust their armed forces to a piece of software made in another country.
Of course I don't know the last time Sweden went to war but still.
No they denounce the GPL. They are all for open source if they can use the code themselves.
"In fact, I'll go as far as this, Microsoft has submitted to codebases to the community now. How many people can stand up here and claim to have submitted more than Microsoft has? In many ways, Microsoft is a better member of the community than a lot of people reading this right now."
There are more ways to contribute then just code. Many people here have worked with developers to solve tricky bugs, written documentation, hung out at listserves and answered questions and yes acted as evangelists for their own pet project.
I tell you one thing though. Except for the MS astro turfers most people here never claimed open source was un american or a cancer or communist. How you can claim that MS loves open source and this community is beyond me. Just listen to their leaders for gods sake.
Then why are you here?
May I suggest you hang out at gotdotnet.com They love MS over there and they hate linux. You will get a chance to hang out with people like you.
Ah the same old shit different day.
.NET or java so what the hell is your problem? How do youplan on achieving this goal anyway? Are you going to beat developers who use python? Are you going to remove gcc from the distros? How do you plan on forcing developers to use the language you like and abandon the languages they like? Please present a plan.
"Adobe's not gonna give you RPMs, sorry"
Why not? Oracle does. Everybody else does? Is adobe so stupid that they can't put together an RPM? Is putting together an RPM that much harder then using some other installer?
"Innovation."
Fuck innovation. Apple innovates more then anybody and they only own 5% of the market. MS steals other peoples ideas and owns 95%. Why emulate the loser? Steal other peoples ideas and improve on them and then call it innovation that's what microsoft does.
"One sane programming library."
Huh? You can use
"The removal of X."
Sigh. Yet another retread of this stupid whine. I won't even bother.
"Finally, an ATTITUDE CHANGE. Linux zealots kill Linux adoption"
WOW. Did I miss the news? Is linux adoption slowing down? Has it stopped? What kind of reality distortion field are you living in? Linux adoption is growing every year. The growth of linux over the last two years has been nothing short of explosive and shows no sign of slowing down. What the fuck are you talking about? Show me some study that says linux adoption is slowing and it's due to "zealots".
If zealots are so bad why does MS fund professional astro turfers? Is zealots are so bad how come every MS employee is encouraged to set up a blog and sing the praises of windows?
What linux needs to get rid of are people like you. People who bitch, moan, whine, complain, and carp without ever once lifting a finget to help.
What the world needs are less MS astro turfers.
" This is what I hate about Near East poltics, there's really not standard for good behavior"
There is a universal standard of good behavior. It's odd that the birthplace of the three major religions has lost that point.
BTW the Turks have been around since about 200BC when they called themselves Huns. They were clustered around the caspain sea which is not too far away from their current location.
Of course none of that matters much. You can't justify killing and torturing people by saying that their ancestors were somehow illegitimate.
By and large I agree with you.
I see no difference between arial sharon and yasser arafat. They are both terrorists and war criminals. They are both guilty of unspeakable crimes against humanity. They both should be imprisoned for the rest of their lives in a horrible place like gitmo.
My point is that they both should be treated the same way. We should not reward one demon while punishing the other.
The standard for humanity is not to be better then saddam hussein and the standard for a nation is not to be better then syria. Being better then syria is nothing to be proud of is it? Why not strive to be a true democracy which treats all it's citizens equally and does not occupy millions of people under a brutal apartheid.
I don't support palestenians. I just want my govt to stop giving money to israel. I want to stop my govt from spending my money protecting israel which does not need protection because they are a nuclear power run by a ruthless war criminal. This has nothing to do with palestenians, I don't give a shit about them either.
The schools in my town need money. I want those billions spent on israel plowign my streets and buying books for my schools. Get it?
Look up the figures. Israel gets more foreign aid from the US then the rest of the world combined.
"Without the money they may eventually be slaughtered by their neighbors. "
Let me state unequavically that I don't give a shit if israelis get killed. Just as I didn't give a shit when saddam gassed the kurds or when the taliban killed everybody in sight.
Having said that I think it's ridiculus for you to suggest that a country with estimated 300 nuclear weapons would be killed by their enemies. Israel is the most powerful country in the world because attacking israel will mean that the US will bomb the shit out of your country. If any country dared to attack israel we would commit genocide so complete it would make hitlers look like childs play.
"My point. Your Gov pisses away money anyways, why not support the underdog, the lesser of two evils. Not significantly lesser but lesser all the same. What else would your Gov spend on?invade another country?"
If we were going to support the underdogs we'd be supporting palestenians. If we were going to support lesser of two evils we'd at least support somebody who has something we want like oil or something.
We might invade another country if the Bush approval numbers don't rise above 50% pretty soon. the only time his approval rate has been higher then disaproval were during war. He might invade syria or iran to win the election. Of course if he can trot out osama bin laden then that would do it too.
I for one would prefer my govt spend my money educating our own kids and fixing my own roads.
" First, name the other democracies in the Middle East."
Turkey. Not only is Turkey a democracy it's also a secular one.
Iran was a democracy till we installed the shah. You remember that?
Finally and this is very important so pay attention.
Israel is not really a democracy. It's a theo-democracy. It's a democracy like thing built on top of a theocratic dogma. Israel is first and foremost a zionist state. That means the all other values including democracy are secondary to the fullfillment of zion.
This is why Israel has not made the palestenians citizens after it has invaded their country. This is why there are jewish only neighborhoods in israel. This is why an israeli citizen can be exiled if they marry a palestenians.
Israel is the fulfillment of Gods prophesy and promise to jews. Gods will overrides human decency and human rights. When god tells you that you have to build a house on some plot of land you do it, you don't care if that land belongs to somebody else.
I am glad you have set your sights so low. I am also happy to see you admit that Israel is no different then the terrorists regimes that surround it. Apparently the people of Israel strive to be no worse then communist russia. That's just dandy.
Now back to my original point.
Why are we giving billions of dollars of aid to people who are no different then the terrorist palestenians? What's in it for us?
You are very confused.
First of all you are talking about trade. Trade deficits are bad. They help them more then they help us.
I am talking about us foreign aid. Not trade. Foreign aid is charity given by the US because people are destitute, starving or because we feel somehow justified in giving our money away.
Nobody has ever convinced me that giving charity to israel is justified. They are not destitute, they are not starving, they don't need our help and they give us back nothing in return.
If the US is ever invaded I'd be happy to kill you and people like you. You don't deserve freedom.
"Interesting. And what country would that be? Palestine? Never existed as a seperate country."
Yadda Yadda Yadda. Somehow you miss the obvious point. Human beings were living in what is called Israel. Those human beings had lived there for thousands of years. Generation after generation of people called that place home.
Those people were FUCKED by the british, the UN, the jews and the israelis.
You want to pretend that a jew born and raised in Chicago has as much or more right to a plot of land then a 10th generation palestanian the you are without morals.
"This is a gross exageration"
No it's not. They hate israel because israel was formed in their land. There was no israel and then there was one. The people that used to live there got fucked.
They also hate israel because israel is currently occupying 3.5 million people. These people are for all practical purposes domesticated animals to the state of israel. They live within Israeli borders and yet they have no legal rights whatsoever.
They also hate israel because israel kills around a thousand people per year like clockwork. They also destroy hundreds of homes and wound thousands of people.
They also hate israel because israel routinely rounds up men and tortures them in prisons without access to lawyers and without charging them with a crime.
They hate the US because the US approves, condones, and helps israel occupy palestenians.
The arabs don't hate everyone. They don't hate the chinese, they don't hate canadians, they don't hate germans, they don't hate swedes, they don't hate finns, they don't hate russians, they don't hate turks etc. They hate israel because they have reason to hate israel. They hate the US because they have reason to hate the US. You can bury your head in the sand and pretend otherwise but that's the reality.
I'll say it again.
What israel is doing is illegal, immoral and uncivilized. In no framework of justice or morality is it acceptable to keep 3.5 million people under such opression. It's not right and you can't justify it.
Lets break it down a little shall we.
You say that Israelis are richer and more educated then it's neighbors. Ok. So what? How does that help America? Is this really surprising given the amount of money We give to israel? If you were to add up the money the US govt gives israel and the private US citizens give israel it would be hundreds of billions of dollars.
So they take this money, educate their kids, invent stuff, manufacture stuff, and sell it to us. How does that help us? I can see why it's great for israel but why is it great for me?
"Did you miss what I said about security? Israel is the buffer zone between us and the terrorists."
This is a flat our lie. Israel is the cause of terrorism. It's the reason arabs hate us. It's the number one reason there has not been peace in the middle east.
"Also, the squalid "refugee" camps of poor Arabs must be sustained and kept in such condition to keep international pressure on Israel's "oppression and occupation.""
Israel should lift it's occupation. It's illegal, immoral and evil to occupy people against their will. There is no justification for it.
"Also, it should be noted that a lot of the money the U.S. gives to Israel are loans. "
This is a lie. The US gives around 12 billon dollars of AID to israel not loans. We also spend billions more in developing technology to defend them. They don't pay back a cent of that.
"You're not understanding the geopolitical ramifications of having a liberal democracy in the heart of the Middle East"
I understand perfectly. I am under no delusion that Israel is a benefit to the middle east or to the world at large. Everyboy hates is israel ecept the US. They are lawless country. They have given themselves to kill anybody they want any time they want for any reason they want. They have a huge stockpile of nuclear weapons, they have a state policy of turture and incarceration without charges or trials. Israel is a rogue state with hundreds of nuclear weapons. One day they will turn on us.
"Maybe Intel chips designed by a few engineers in Israel provide millions of jobs in America in other sectors of the computer industry."
Or maybe it would provide even more jobs if all the work is done here, have you thought of that.
"It is good for America that our staunchest ally be strong and prosperous."
Israel is not our staunches ally, it's the other way around. The relationship between the Israel and the US is parasitic. Nothing you have told me contradicts that.
You love israel, the israelis are rich and educated, the israelis manufacture stuff and sell it to us. None of this helps me.
Why don't we give that money taiwan instead. They too are educated, rich, make cool stuff and sell it to us. As a bonus they don't invade and occupy countries and kill thousands of people every year.
"If you want to commit exactly the same crimes, why bother even protecting the US"
If the US was invaded there would be no more principles left to defend. All is fair when you have been invaded. This goes double if the invading army is routinely killing civllians BTW.
" Excessive bail shall not be required, nor excessive fines imposed, nor cruel and unusual punishment inflicted. "
They are talking about citizens during peacetime. If you can't make that distinction then don't even bother talking to me.
If the US invaded I suspect people like you will act as collaborators and spy on your fellow citizens.