They are probably using google to search MSDN like the rest of us are. It's usually much faster to search the MS KB and MSDN with google then to use the search "feature" of the MS web site.
What I mean is that in five years Oracle will be giving away their database. Not that people stop using oracle. They have already slashed their prices and have made a free version available that's quite capabable. They already make a lot of money off of software that runs on the datatabase like financials and such. The database is on it's way to being a commoditiy. I give it five years and DB/2, SQL server and Oracle will be free to 90% of database users. They may charge for a few high end features like datacubes and whatnot but I doubt even that.
IBM and Oracle might be able charge for mainframe platforms and maybe 10+ CPUs but MS will SOL because they don't support either.
Nobody likes paying for software. Business pay for software because they think they get a better product. The difference between databases and operating systems is that open source databases are being used by thousands of businesses all over the world in real life applications. Businesses people are basically herd animals. They follow the crowd. Once you get a large enough following then all the business people sitting on the fence jump on your side.
Business people are always afraid that their competiion is spending less then them and making more then them. If you pay for SQL server and you competitor doesn't pay for their database then they have an advantage over you.
If you are running a web site then you should consider that some of the world busiest sites including/. run on mysql. Apparently there is a way to run websites with mysql and still get high availability.
What do you mean by that? Are you saying that nobody is using linux on the desktop? That linux on the desktop is not increasing? That linux desktop usage is decreasing?
Maybe it's not growing as fast as you would like but linux adoption grows every year. Every year the desktop gets better and better. Some figures suggest that linux has now caught up to the mac if not passed it.
Just because you don't like it or it's not growing at the rate you would like that doesn't mean it's not growing. I for one don't think it would be in the interest of linux to grow any faster. Sustainable and controlled growth is better then a wild burst of adoption followed by a billion newbies screaming about how their keyboard shortcuts don't work or that the message boxes have a different shading.
Look at it this way. Photoshop works now under wine. That ought to get half of slashdot whiners switching right there!
I don't want to get into an argument about the advancedness of postgres integrity or acidness of Mysql. I will simply point out that those are just two of the many open source databases on the market. Some of them such as SAPdb, firebird/interbase and openingress have been in use in some of the largest companies in the world in real world applications.
Yes all threee manufacturers have put out a free version and if you are happy living their restrictions then you should try them. The only thing you have to worry about is if your needs ever exceed their limitations then you will have to pay. Personally I just don't see the point. Either your needs are light and you don't need one of the big three or your needs are heavy and you must fork out the bucks.
The way things are going in three to five years nobody will be able to charge for a database. Look how fast mysql and postgres are gaining features.
The big three database manufacturers all charge pretty much the same for the same feature set. Oracle costs the same are sql server and db/2 within a percent or two.
The second tier database manufacturers (openbase, frontbase, mimer etc) charge significantly less.
Finally there are the open source databases and companies that try to sell them.
Personally I don't see how anybody can charge for databases these except to the largest organizations. The killer feature seems to be real and reliable replication and clustering. Postgres as fine as it is lacks a decent replication schema (slony can not be used over unreliable links). Mysql replicates OK for must common scenarios but the replication does not honor foreign key relationships or transactional integrity.
So if you need clustering and replication then pay otherwise use a free one. If you are going to pay then at least pay for something that does not tie you to an operating system.
". You either use the migration tool included with your new mail product, or you write a script to walk through the users and export their data one at a time."
What migration tool? How is the migration tool supposed to access the proprietary email database held by exchange? You write a script? You talked about how to do it in outlook. You have to write a script to manipulate outlook and have it log in as each person and then export their emails? Wow, that might take a couple of weeks to write and a couple of months to run.
My point is that why paint yourself into that corner in the first place. Why not use a different product that does not lock you to the vendor by using proprietary formats, RPC mechanisms etc.
Vendor lock is bad. It hurts you in the long run to place all your vital information (and email is vital) in the hands of just one company.
Once again you have resorted to calling me a terrorist and a zealot despite the fact that it s you who is acting on faith and is unable to evaluate context or make rational decisions.
As for me I would rather be a zealot to an idea then a shill for a corporation. How pathetic do you have to be to be a sycophant for a corporation?
What? Does MAPI need to be integrated with the OS before it can usable? MS writes entourage, apparently not one MS programmers was abled to write a MAPI/RPC based adapter to entourage to make it work with exchange.
If the MS programmers who have full access to the source code and docs can't do it how do you expect others to be able to do it?
Maybe you are right. Maybe the only way to build MAPI clients is if the MAPI is enabled at the OS level. Wow, wouldn't that suck.
The fact that you disagree has nothing to do with it. It's all about your decision making process. You lack the ability to evaluate the context in which statements are being made. You take statements at face value without evaluating the past history of the people making the statements.
If you had presented a rational explanation for your position then I might have a modicum of respect for you despite the fact that you disagree with me.
I figure there is something wrong with your brain. You are just not capable of evaluating context. Either that or you have a pathological attachment to the microsoft corporation. Either way it's not good. If you feel the need to form a strong attachment to a corporation I would choose a better one then MS. Maybe shimano who makes bike parts, or rockports who makes nice shoes, or even snapper who makes nice lawn mowers. There are lots of nice corpoations to devote your time to.
All religions have words that mean "not us". It could be heathen, infidel, goyem or whatever.
I find it interesting that he uses the phrase "my guys". He doesn't say "us" or microsoft or "commercial software manufacturers" or anything else.
Maybe I am reading too much into it but that phrase really struck me.
What about the other commercial vendors though? Don't they force "your guys" to do a great job? I mean the development efforts of MS have been driven by apple and google more then anything else. Like clockwork windows implements two year old apple technology and adopts the latest apple GUI paradigms. These days it's virtually impossible not to hear an MS executive talk about implementing something google is doing. It seems to me MS is much more focused on chasing apple and google then what OSS is doing.
One thing that gets overlooked with CORBA is the the stateful two way communication between the clients and the servers. The server can raise an event and tell the client to do something. That's just not possible with web services where constant polling is the order of the day.
CORBA was a great idea implemented complexly. People don't like complex.
I should mention that the author of the article works for a company which sells a product they claim is "better then corba". I have never used their products so I can't say anything about it but it's something to keep in mind.
BTW zeroc guys do you have ruby bindings in the works?
Who would benefit from such laws, who would have to spend more money.
Then ask.
Who gives money to politicians.
Then ask.
What percent of eligable voters voted last election.
By now I think you would get the point. It will never happen. Not till americans are pissed off enough to vote. The only thing I can think of that would piss them off is the superbowl being cancelled or a blackout on american idol or something. They don't care about anything else (except the fags getting married of course).
I remember reading an interview with Gates after his "open source programmers are communists" remark. The so called journalist asked him "how come you called open source developers communists". Gates answered something like "well because they are communists" (not in those words exactly but you get the gist). The journalists just moved on to the next question fully accepting Gates remark and dutifully publishing in his/her magazine.
1) Your example only shows how to export one persons mail. What do you do if you have a thousand? 2) What about the contacts? 3) What about the calender? Can you export that to ical? 4) OK so you now have a comma separated file what do you do with it? Put it in a spreadsheet? How come it won't let you export them as plain email files? 5) If MAPI was well understood or sufficient there would be a jillion email clients that work with exchange. Alas not even the MS products for the mac work well with exchange. Entourage for a long time scraped outlook web access. Then went to imap. Is it using MAPI yet?
I mean what kind of an irrational person presumes that MS and Mundie have made a complete 180 Degree turn in their personal beliefs and policies based on one interview?
The only reason RPC over HTTPS even exists is because MS refuses to adopt IMAPS fully. It's just another proprietary MS protocol designed to lock customers. Come to think of it that's all exchange and outlook are too.
Once you take that pill you become pw0ned by MS. YOu can never migrate, you can never switch to another platform, you will be forced to upgrade every couple of years. Don't even get me started on maintaining exchange. Quite possible the worst email server on the planet.
I don't read infoworld so I can't speak for your magazine but I have never once, ever, in decades of reading computer magazine read any so called journalist ask a hard question to a MS executive. If they do ask a question that's even mildly challenging then the marketdroid gets to spew pure lies and bullshit for a couple of paragraphs without any kind of a challenge.
How many times Bill Gates and his staff lied to your magazine? Have you ever confronted any of them about it? If you have then I will subscribe.
I am not kidding. If there is one no bullshit, no holds barred, tough and investigative computer magazine out there I will subscribe today.
Please do. Point to the beginning of the thread please. I am always interested in exposing how much astro turfing goes on here on slashdot on behalf of/.
Slashdot Mirror
They are probably using google to search MSDN like the rest of us are. It's usually much faster to search the MS KB and MSDN with google then to use the search "feature" of the MS web site.
What I mean is that in five years Oracle will be giving away their database. Not that people stop using oracle. They have already slashed their prices and have made a free version available that's quite capabable. They already make a lot of money off of software that runs on the datatabase like financials and such. The database is on it's way to being a commoditiy. I give it five years and DB/2, SQL server and Oracle will be free to 90% of database users. They may charge for a few high end features like datacubes and whatnot but I doubt even that.
IBM and Oracle might be able charge for mainframe platforms and maybe 10+ CPUs but MS will SOL because they don't support either.
"I like Slashdot and all but it simply doesn't rate having a commercial RDBMS behind it."
Why? Because you don't like the business? Because you don't like what the business does? Because you don't like who runs the business?
Anyway why should it matter what the business does ot how much you like the business. We are talking about technical issues here.
BHAHAHAHAHAHA.
Yes there is a business man out there who thinks... Hey I'll buy sql server because I can sue MS if it crashes and I lose data.
BHAHAHAHAHAHA.
You funny!
Nobody likes paying for software. Business pay for software because they think they get a better product. The difference between databases and operating systems is that open source databases are being used by thousands of businesses all over the world in real life applications. Businesses people are basically herd animals. They follow the crowd. Once you get a large enough following then all the business people sitting on the fence jump on your side.
Business people are always afraid that their competiion is spending less then them and making more then them. If you pay for SQL server and you competitor doesn't pay for their database then they have an advantage over you.
If you are running a web site then you should consider that some of the world busiest sites including /. run on mysql. Apparently there is a way to run websites with mysql and still get high availability.
""Yet another year without a Linux desktop".
What do you mean by that? Are you saying that nobody is using linux on the desktop? That linux on the desktop is not increasing? That linux desktop usage is decreasing?
Maybe it's not growing as fast as you would like but linux adoption grows every year. Every year the desktop gets better and better. Some figures suggest that linux has now caught up to the mac if not passed it.
Just because you don't like it or it's not growing at the rate you would like that doesn't mean it's not growing. I for one don't think it would be in the interest of linux to grow any faster. Sustainable and controlled growth is better then a wild burst of adoption followed by a billion newbies screaming about how their keyboard shortcuts don't work or that the message boxes have a different shading.
Look at it this way. Photoshop works now under wine. That ought to get half of slashdot whiners switching right there!
I don't want to get into an argument about the advancedness of postgres integrity or acidness of Mysql. I will simply point out that those are just two of the many open source databases on the market. Some of them such as SAPdb, firebird/interbase and openingress have been in use in some of the largest companies in the world in real world applications.
Yes all threee manufacturers have put out a free version and if you are happy living their restrictions then you should try them. The only thing you have to worry about is if your needs ever exceed their limitations then you will have to pay. Personally I just don't see the point. Either your needs are light and you don't need one of the big three or your needs are heavy and you must fork out the bucks.
The way things are going in three to five years nobody will be able to charge for a database. Look how fast mysql and postgres are gaining features.
The big three database manufacturers all charge pretty much the same for the same feature set. Oracle costs the same are sql server and db/2 within a percent or two.
The second tier database manufacturers (openbase, frontbase, mimer etc) charge significantly less.
Finally there are the open source databases and companies that try to sell them.
Personally I don't see how anybody can charge for databases these except to the largest organizations. The killer feature seems to be real and reliable replication and clustering. Postgres as fine as it is lacks a decent replication schema (slony can not be used over unreliable links). Mysql replicates OK for must common scenarios but the replication does not honor foreign key relationships or transactional integrity.
So if you need clustering and replication then pay otherwise use a free one. If you are going to pay then at least pay for something that does not tie you to an operating system.
". You either use the migration tool included with your new mail product, or you write a script to walk through the users and export their data one at a time."
What migration tool? How is the migration tool supposed to access the proprietary email database held by exchange? You write a script? You talked about how to do it in outlook. You have to write a script to manipulate outlook and have it log in as each person and then export their emails? Wow, that might take a couple of weeks to write and a couple of months to run.
My point is that why paint yourself into that corner in the first place. Why not use a different product that does not lock you to the vendor by using proprietary formats, RPC mechanisms etc.
Vendor lock is bad. It hurts you in the long run to place all your vital information (and email is vital) in the hands of just one company.
"He probably means 'plain email files', as in text representation of the actual mail."
Yes exacly like every other email server in existence.
Once again you have resorted to calling me a terrorist and a zealot despite the fact that it s you who is acting on faith and is unable to evaluate context or make rational decisions.
As for me I would rather be a zealot to an idea then a shill for a corporation. How pathetic do you have to be to be a sycophant for a corporation?
What? Does MAPI need to be integrated with the OS before it can usable? MS writes entourage, apparently not one MS programmers was abled to write a MAPI /RPC based adapter to entourage to make it work with exchange.
If the MS programmers who have full access to the source code and docs can't do it how do you expect others to be able to do it?
Maybe you are right. Maybe the only way to build MAPI clients is if the MAPI is enabled at the OS level. Wow, wouldn't that suck.
The fact that you disagree has nothing to do with it. It's all about your decision making process. You lack the ability to evaluate the context in which statements are being made. You take statements at face value without evaluating the past history of the people making the statements.
If you had presented a rational explanation for your position then I might have a modicum of respect for you despite the fact that you disagree with me.
I figure there is something wrong with your brain. You are just not capable of evaluating context. Either that or you have a pathological attachment to the microsoft corporation. Either way it's not good. If you feel the need to form a strong attachment to a corporation I would choose a better one then MS. Maybe shimano who makes bike parts, or rockports who makes nice shoes, or even snapper who makes nice lawn mowers. There are lots of nice corpoations to devote your time to.
All religions have words that mean "not us". It could be heathen, infidel, goyem or whatever.
I find it interesting that he uses the phrase "my guys". He doesn't say "us" or microsoft or "commercial software manufacturers" or anything else.
Maybe I am reading too much into it but that phrase really struck me.
What about the other commercial vendors though? Don't they force "your guys" to do a great job? I mean the development efforts of MS have been driven by apple and google more then anything else. Like clockwork windows implements two year old apple technology and adopts the latest apple GUI paradigms. These days it's virtually impossible not to hear an MS executive talk about implementing something google is doing. It seems to me MS is much more focused on chasing apple and google then what OSS is doing.
Don't worry IPV6 will take care of the problem by making NAT obselete. BHAHAHAHAHA.
Sorry dude I couldn't resist. This industry cracks me up sometimes.
Anyway, I feel your pain. I really do. NAT has been my nemesis all too frequently.
One thing that gets overlooked with CORBA is the the stateful two way communication between the clients and the servers. The server can raise an event and tell the client to do something. That's just not possible with web services where constant polling is the order of the day.
CORBA was a great idea implemented complexly. People don't like complex.
I should mention that the author of the article works for a company which sells a product they claim is "better then corba". I have never used their products so I can't say anything about it but it's something to keep in mind.
BTW zeroc guys do you have ruby bindings in the works?
Ask yourself this.
Who would benefit from such laws, who would have to spend more money.
Then ask.
Who gives money to politicians.
Then ask.
What percent of eligable voters voted last election.
By now I think you would get the point. It will never happen. Not till americans are pissed off enough to vote. The only thing I can think of that would piss them off is the superbowl being cancelled or a blackout on american idol or something. They don't care about anything else (except the fags getting married of course).
I remember reading an interview with Gates after his "open source programmers are communists" remark. The so called journalist asked him "how come you called open source developers communists". Gates answered something like "well because they are communists" (not in those words exactly but you get the gist). The journalists just moved on to the next question fully accepting Gates remark and dutifully publishing in his/her magazine.
1) Your example only shows how to export one persons mail. What do you do if you have a thousand?
2) What about the contacts?
3) What about the calender? Can you export that to ical?
4) OK so you now have a comma separated file what do you do with it? Put it in a spreadsheet? How come it won't let you export them as plain email files?
5) If MAPI was well understood or sufficient there would be a jillion email clients that work with exchange. Alas not even the MS products for the mac work well with exchange. Entourage for a long time scraped outlook web access. Then went to imap. Is it using MAPI yet?
No I just figure you are lying that's all.
I mean what kind of an irrational person presumes that MS and Mundie have made a complete 180 Degree turn in their personal beliefs and policies based on one interview?
Clearly not a rational person.
The only reason RPC over HTTPS even exists is because MS refuses to adopt IMAPS fully. It's just another proprietary MS protocol designed to lock customers. Come to think of it that's all exchange and outlook are too.
Once you take that pill you become pw0ned by MS. YOu can never migrate, you can never switch to another platform, you will be forced to upgrade every couple of years. Don't even get me started on maintaining exchange. Quite possible the worst email server on the planet.
"Viruses are for n00bs."
So is windows.
I don't read infoworld so I can't speak for your magazine but I have never once, ever, in decades of reading computer magazine read any so called journalist ask a hard question to a MS executive. If they do ask a question that's even mildly challenging then the marketdroid gets to spew pure lies and bullshit for a couple of paragraphs without any kind of a challenge.
How many times Bill Gates and his staff lied to your magazine? Have you ever confronted any of them about it? If you have then I will subscribe.
I am not kidding. If there is one no bullshit, no holds barred, tough and investigative computer magazine out there I will subscribe today.
Please do. Point to the beginning of the thread please. I am always interested in exposing how much astro turfing goes on here on slashdot on behalf of /.
Tell you bosses I said hi too.