More firefighters died from traffic accidents, smoking, and drinking EVERY WEEK then 9/11. If you love and honor firefighters and want to avenge their deaths I suggest you declare a jihad against tobacco companies, beer manufacturers and automobile makers.
I am sick of people using the firefighters to make political points. Oddly enough those same people will damn the firefighters when talking about unions. Shows how much of a weasel they are.
Both the congress and the court system now cares more about their own political party then the constitution or the citizens. Unless you get a democratic house or senate don't expect any investigation at all. Even if you get a democratic congress they probably won't investigate because "it's all in the past".
What do you mean stark raving mad. They are expressing the same thought as you "people who break laws ought to be locked up". Are they start raving mad because they are not you? Are they stark raving mad because they don't like Bush?
If you don't like the president are you insane? Oh wait a minute maybe that's right
"And I also never said anything about proportional representation, which as far as I'm concerned is just an institutional method for letting the tail wag the dog."
What does that mean? What do you find so offensive about proportinal representation?
"All you need to have a minority house, or senate, is to have a 3rd (or 4th) party hold the balance of power - that is, no one party be able to have 50% of the body without support of at least one other party."
In order to get there you will need to defeat dozens of incumbents. Considering that their re-election rate is higher then the house of lords in England I'd say you are dreaming.
You are going to have to have dozens of people getting 51% or better of the vote in dozens of jurisdictions. I am going to rule out the senate since you can never get a third party to win an entire state but even in the house that's impossible because the jurisdictionsa are all rigged.
Think about it. Even if a party had 30% support they are not all going to live in one jurisdiction or one state. They are going to be scattered across the country where they will have no effect whatsoever.
If you want to work for change work to get rid of winner take all. Work to institute a better way of voting.
Well that was a nonsensical retort. Of course you get work done, it just takes you longer because you have to hunt down the libraries, hope that they come in an egg, and then run your installer. Good luck updating them too.
The point is not that you can't get work done with python, it's that it's more work then Ruby.
1) Easy install is not a hooked up to a centralized repository of pyton packages. 2) easy install does not come with the default python install. 3) Easy install is not "the official" package managment system of python. 4) Eggs are a relatively new invenstion in python.
Come back when easy install is installed by default part of python, there is an official and centralized package repository that is searchable both from the command line and the web, and when it's blessed by Guido.
Till then take a back seat to languages that have all that.
"The relevant ones are Gem and CPAN. The others have pretty much full control over all the packages on your system."
I disagree. In end package management is simply making sure certain set of files exists on your system and a centralized index. Different systems have different features however. For example both gem and darwinports allow you to have multiple versions and variations of packages.
"CPAN breaks if you have non-Perl dependencies"
One would expect that given the system has no way of knowing about the external requirement.
"Python knows that CPAN is important, but the current efforts are pretty ugly and lacking. Package management is somewhat of a black art."
It it really? As I type this the following package mangement systems spring immediately into mind.
Gem, CPAN, apt, yum, emerge, ports, darwinports, pkgsrc and fink. Those are the ones that I typed off the top of my head. I am sure there are a hundred more.
It's not a black art. There is no reason why anybody can't take one of the existing ones and just port/adapt it to python (or zope, or whatever).
Really. You mean a few years ago you could have typed the equivalent of "gem update" and updated all your libraries? You mean a few years ago you could have typed the equivalent of "gem install rails" and have it fetch all your dependent packages. You mean a few years ago there was a way to search to all the python libraries for a package using the equivalent of "gem search rails"
I call bullshit. Show me. Heck show me how you can do that today.
So you are saying that people who are concerned about licensing are not able to get as much work done as people who don't?
That's seems like a stupid statement to me. It's been my experience that people who are concerned about licensing are on the average smarter then your typical drone programer and do indeed get much more work done.
Where did you get this notion that the people who don't care about licenses are more productive then people who do?
I think you are confusing strong typing with type safety. Ruby and python are type safe, they just don't require you to declare your types ahead of time.
Zope is the single largest waste of talent and innovation in the history of computer science. It's an amazingly well thought product, it solves every problem you might have when designing dynamic web sites, it solves problems you didn't even know, it comes functional out of the box, it takes seconds to install and get going, yadda yadda yadda.
Never in the history of computing science has so much innovation been so impossible to deal with. No real documentation, the simplest things are difficult, a buttload of half finished products none of which have any documentation to speak of. Most (yes MOST) zope products have no documentation other then it's name. You want to see a joke, go the zope collective on sourceforge. Now there is a crackup.
Dear Zope Community. I love the technology you have built, please make it so that I can use it. While you are at it please make it perform better then 1/10th of the speed of apache, php. You don't have to make it as fast, just don't make it like a joke.
While I am asking. Please create a sourforge or a CPAN for zope products so I can just install products without wading knee deep into dependency hell. Make it easy for me to keep my products updated. For examples of how to do this please see perl CPAN, ruby gems, apt, and yum.
Do this in time for zope3 so that the effort that went into that won't end up being a waste too.
Sorry if I am coming across a little harsh, I really love the ideas behind zope, I run a zope(plone) site, but it's much harder then it needs to be. Much harder then ROR for example.
What's great about rails? Well other people have talked about it, basically it encourages good software practices. Test first, DRY, MVC etc.
What's great about Ruby? Community, community, community. The ruby community seems to be adopting the mantra of DRY (don't repeat yourself). If any project comes along and it shows superiority then the whole community gets behind it and it quickly becomes a de-facto standard. That's what happened with rails even though there were/are competing frameworks. Same thing with Mutt for example.
Lastly the Ruby community early on were not afraid to take great ideas from the ecosystem. Gems for example is the ruby version of CPAN (the best thing about perl is CPAN). The python guys still haven't figured out why CPAN and gem are important. Ruby community doesn't seem to suffer from the not invented here syndrome.
Since the chances of you being mugged are tiny (once maybe twice in your life, it's never happened to me for example) but the chances of you picking nose, scratching your balls, spitting on the sidewalk, arguing with your wife, yelling at the neighbor, yelling at your kids, leaving the grass unkempt are 100% I'd say that's not a good tradeoff.
I still don't buy the ground way. We may wage a proxy war with the Kurds but that's kind of futile because the kurds don't have enough people. We might turn them into the next israel by arming and training them but that's going to take more then two or three years.
I do agree that the Iranian govt will move the shia against the kurds. In fact I am convinced the shia will move against the kurds no matter what with the full blessing of the iranians and the turks. Nobody likes the kurds, nobody has for centuries.
I still say it's an air war. We just bomb them and take great videos. The american public will want to see explosions just like the movies. It's all for entertainment.
In order for a minority party to have say they need to 1) get people elected into congress. 2) get more then 50% of either the house or senate to be third party candidates.
Won't happen, can't happen. As long as we have a winner take all system there will never be proportional representation.
Take away the winner take all and you may start to make a difference. Still won't be as accurate of representation as a parliment but it's a start.
In every neighborhood there is the kooky nosy neighbor always spying on people, wanting to know everything about everybody, gossiping, spreading the most embarassing details of all the neighbors.
Congratulations England, your entire country has become that kooky neighbor. Now all of you are bad as the worst person in my neigborhood.
The iranian war will be TV war. It will not involve occupation by US troops. There will be lots of bombs and great shots for the TV so that country musicians can write patriotic songs.
What you left out of your list the support for th PKK (the terrorist arm of the kurds) by the US to carry out bombings in Turkey and Iran. Turkey is being punished for not letting the US attack Iraq from the north.
I found it highly ironic when after a recent bombing in Istanbul by the PKK the US govt critized Turkey for not being sensitive to Kurdish population. So much for war on terror huh?
The constitution is worthless without checks and balances. The congress is repulican and the courts have been stacked with republicans. This means the constituion is now worth as much as toilet paper or maybe even less.
You can claim all the rights you want but if the congress isn't willing to step up to the administration and the courts are willing to be trampled over and rule in the way their party platform says they should then it's all moot.
You have the illision of rights, but you don't actually have any of those rights.
It would not work. We don't have a parliment like the rest of the world. We have a winner take all system so there is no reason to form coalition governments.
In our country whoever gets 51% of the vote gets the spend the next four years fucking the other 49% and trying to jury rig the system so that the 49% never gets the 51%.
You know if you were to provide a study or something then I might not think you were talking out of your ass. Until then I think I will presume you are indeed talking out of your ass.
buying a gun will lead to nothing. Look at the insurgency in Iraq and palestine for guidance. There the populations are facing a sophisticated army and intelligence and guns are not the primary weapons. The primary weapons are bombs.
In both palestine and iraq the occupying army is small compared to what the US has in the country so you will most likely need to stockpile on chemicals and figure out how to make nukes.
Those shotguns and pistols aren't going to get you anywhere agains the US army. Don't kid yourself.
Slashdot Mirror
More firefighters died from traffic accidents, smoking, and drinking EVERY WEEK then 9/11. If you love and honor firefighters and want to avenge their deaths I suggest you declare a jihad against tobacco companies, beer manufacturers and automobile makers.
I am sick of people using the firefighters to make political points. Oddly enough those same people will damn the firefighters when talking about unions. Shows how much of a weasel they are.
Both the congress and the court system now cares more about their own political party then the constitution or the citizens. Unless you get a democratic house or senate don't expect any investigation at all. Even if you get a democratic congress they probably won't investigate because "it's all in the past".
Say goodbye the checks and balances.
What do you mean stark raving mad. They are expressing the same thought as you "people who break laws ought to be locked up". Are they start raving mad because they are not you? Are they stark raving mad because they don't like Bush?
If you don't like the president are you insane? Oh wait a minute maybe that's right
"And I also never said anything about proportional representation, which as far as I'm concerned is just an institutional method for letting the tail wag the dog."
What does that mean? What do you find so offensive about proportinal representation?
"All you need to have a minority house, or senate, is to have a 3rd (or 4th) party hold the balance of power - that is, no one party be able to have 50% of the body without support of at least one other party."
In order to get there you will need to defeat dozens of incumbents. Considering that their re-election rate is higher then the house of lords in England I'd say you are dreaming.
You are going to have to have dozens of people getting 51% or better of the vote in dozens of jurisdictions. I am going to rule out the senate since you can never get a third party to win an entire state but even in the house that's impossible because the jurisdictionsa are all rigged.
Think about it. Even if a party had 30% support they are not all going to live in one jurisdiction or one state. They are going to be scattered across the country where they will have no effect whatsoever.
If you want to work for change work to get rid of winner take all. Work to institute a better way of voting.
Well that was a nonsensical retort. Of course you get work done, it just takes you longer because you have to hunt down the libraries, hope that they come in an egg, and then run your installer. Good luck updating them too.
The point is not that you can't get work done with python, it's that it's more work then Ruby.
Bzzzt sorry but you are wrong.
1) Easy install is not a hooked up to a centralized repository of pyton packages.
2) easy install does not come with the default python install.
3) Easy install is not "the official" package managment system of python.
4) Eggs are a relatively new invenstion in python.
Come back when easy install is installed by default part of python, there is an official and centralized package repository that is searchable both from the command line and the web, and when it's blessed by Guido.
Till then take a back seat to languages that have all that.
"The relevant ones are Gem and CPAN. The others have pretty much full control over all the packages on your system."
I disagree. In end package management is simply making sure certain set of files exists on your system and a centralized index. Different systems have different features however. For example both gem and darwinports allow you to have multiple versions and variations of packages.
"CPAN breaks if you have non-Perl dependencies"
One would expect that given the system has no way of knowing about the external requirement.
"Python knows that CPAN is important, but the current efforts are pretty ugly and lacking. Package management is somewhat of a black art."
It it really? As I type this the following package mangement systems spring immediately into mind.
Gem, CPAN, apt, yum, emerge, ports, darwinports, pkgsrc and fink. Those are the ones that I typed off the top of my head. I am sure there are a hundred more.
It's not a black art. There is no reason why anybody can't take one of the existing ones and just port/adapt it to python (or zope, or whatever).
Really. You mean a few years ago you could have typed the equivalent of "gem update" and updated all your libraries? You mean a few years ago you could have typed the equivalent of "gem install rails" and have it fetch all your dependent packages. You mean a few years ago there was a way to search to all the python libraries for a package using the equivalent of "gem search rails"
I call bullshit. Show me. Heck show me how you can do that today.
Why not provide a couple links to a couple of projects using DDs so we can check them out.
In ROR the database IS your DD.
So you are saying that people who are concerned about licensing are not able to get as much work done as people who don't?
That's seems like a stupid statement to me. It's been my experience that people who are concerned about licensing are on the average smarter then your typical drone programer and do indeed get much more work done.
Where did you get this notion that the people who don't care about licenses are more productive then people who do?
I think you are confusing strong typing with type safety. Ruby and python are type safe, they just don't require you to declare your types ahead of time.
Zope is the single largest waste of talent and innovation in the history of computer science. It's an amazingly well thought product, it solves every problem you might have when designing dynamic web sites, it solves problems you didn't even know, it comes functional out of the box, it takes seconds to install and get going, yadda yadda yadda.
Never in the history of computing science has so much innovation been so impossible to deal with. No real documentation, the simplest things are difficult, a buttload of half finished products none of which have any documentation to speak of. Most (yes MOST) zope products have no documentation other then it's name. You want to see a joke, go the zope collective on sourceforge. Now there is a crackup.
Dear Zope Community. I love the technology you have built, please make it so that I can use it. While you are at it please make it perform better then 1/10th of the speed of apache, php. You don't have to make it as fast, just don't make it like a joke.
While I am asking. Please create a sourforge or a CPAN for zope products so I can just install products without wading knee deep into dependency hell. Make it easy for me to keep my products updated. For examples of how to do this please see perl CPAN, ruby gems, apt, and yum.
Do this in time for zope3 so that the effort that went into that won't end up being a waste too.
Sorry if I am coming across a little harsh, I really love the ideas behind zope, I run a zope(plone) site, but it's much harder then it needs to be. Much harder then ROR for example.
What's great about rails? Well other people have talked about it, basically it encourages good software practices. Test first, DRY, MVC etc.
What's great about Ruby? Community, community, community. The ruby community seems to be adopting the mantra of DRY (don't repeat yourself). If any project comes along and it shows superiority then the whole community gets behind it and it quickly becomes a de-facto standard. That's what happened with rails even though there were/are competing frameworks. Same thing with Mutt for example.
Lastly the Ruby community early on were not afraid to take great ideas from the ecosystem. Gems for example is the ruby version of CPAN (the best thing about perl is CPAN). The python guys still haven't figured out why CPAN and gem are important. Ruby community doesn't seem to suffer from the not invented here syndrome.
Since the chances of you being mugged are tiny (once maybe twice in your life, it's never happened to me for example) but the chances of you picking nose, scratching your balls, spitting on the sidewalk, arguing with your wife, yelling at the neighbor, yelling at your kids, leaving the grass unkempt are 100% I'd say that's not a good tradeoff.
I still don't buy the ground way. We may wage a proxy war with the Kurds but that's kind of futile because the kurds don't have enough people. We might turn them into the next israel by arming and training them but that's going to take more then two or three years.
I do agree that the Iranian govt will move the shia against the kurds. In fact I am convinced the shia will move against the kurds no matter what with the full blessing of the iranians and the turks. Nobody likes the kurds, nobody has for centuries.
I still say it's an air war. We just bomb them and take great videos. The american public will want to see explosions just like the movies. It's all for entertainment.
In order for a minority party to have say they need to
1) get people elected into congress.
2) get more then 50% of either the house or senate to be third party candidates.
Won't happen, can't happen. As long as we have a winner take all system there will never be proportional representation.
Take away the winner take all and you may start to make a difference. Still won't be as accurate of representation as a parliment but it's a start.
In every neighborhood there is the kooky nosy neighbor always spying on people, wanting to know everything about everybody, gossiping, spreading the most embarassing details of all the neighbors.
Congratulations England, your entire country has become that kooky neighbor. Now all of you are bad as the worst person in my neigborhood.
The iranian war will be TV war. It will not involve occupation by US troops. There will be lots of bombs and great shots for the TV so that country musicians can write patriotic songs.
What you left out of your list the support for th PKK (the terrorist arm of the kurds) by the US to carry out bombings in Turkey and Iran. Turkey is being punished for not letting the US attack Iraq from the north.
I found it highly ironic when after a recent bombing in Istanbul by the PKK the US govt critized Turkey for not being sensitive to Kurdish population. So much for war on terror huh?
The constitution is worthless without checks and balances. The congress is repulican and the courts have been stacked with republicans. This means the constituion is now worth as much as toilet paper or maybe even less.
You can claim all the rights you want but if the congress isn't willing to step up to the administration and the courts are willing to be trampled over and rule in the way their party platform says they should then it's all moot.
You have the illision of rights, but you don't actually have any of those rights.
It would not work. We don't have a parliment like the rest of the world. We have a winner take all system so there is no reason to form coalition governments.
In our country whoever gets 51% of the vote gets the spend the next four years fucking the other 49% and trying to jury rig the system so that the 49% never gets the 51%.
Your (third hand) experiences in a small community in california a decade ago are probably not relevent.
Bill Murray from ghostbusters. Favorite line.
"Back off man, I'm a scientist"
You know if you were to provide a study or something then I might not think you were talking out of your ass. Until then I think I will presume you are indeed talking out of your ass.
buying a gun will lead to nothing. Look at the insurgency in Iraq and palestine for guidance. There the populations are facing a sophisticated army and intelligence and guns are not the primary weapons. The primary weapons are bombs.
In both palestine and iraq the occupying army is small compared to what the US has in the country so you will most likely need to stockpile on chemicals and figure out how to make nukes.
Those shotguns and pistols aren't going to get you anywhere agains the US army. Don't kid yourself.