Except for RedHat backporting (which may be part of the RedHat ES 2.4 kernel), I can't find any reference to the standard 2.4 set getting this scheduling.
If this exists, could someone kindly point me to it?
I haven't noticed the difference myself, but then again - if this is a new trick, and I've been running 2.6.4 for a month and 2.6 was first released several months ago...how is this a "New Linux Speed Trick"?
Funny, the 2.6 kernel has been out with this feature for months. It's old news. I've been running 2.6.4 on Slackware 9 for almost a month now. Yes, all the nifty features turned on. No, I really don't see much of a difference (beyond the standard improvements of a kernel compiled without all the crap I don't need).
And if you look above to this post, you can all see a great deal of decent explanations of what 1000% increase actually means (11%).
I was able to get the 2.6.4 kernel running on Slackware in less than 4 hours (most of that, compile and configure time). No broken dependancies at all.
However, I wouldn't even try that on RedHat or Mandrake without having the.config file and a list of distribution specific patches.
This was on a Celeron 1GHz laptop, and honestly, I couldn't tell the difference in speed beyond any custom compile. Custom meaning unnecessary device drivers are removed, and the ones that I need are compiled in (as opposed to remaining modularized).
Sun hardware has been questionable for a long while.
I was at a company that purchased a Sun 10K in 97 (one of the first 200 sold). That thing was not stable for a full year (2 CPU board replacements, all of the CPUs and Memory removed and torqued down twice).
Then one day, it got stable, and ran great after that. In the mean time, it was just a really, really big computer to impress clients on walk-throughs (nothing was in production on it because it wasn't stable enough).
That was the first project to come out of Sun's purchase of the Cray designs, so I wrote it off as "Learning Curve" their 4000 through 9000 series were still pretty stable.
But then they started selling PCI architecture build-around SPARC systems (SPARC 30/60), and their reliability suffered across all platforms. They never really got it back, and I hope that they do. I have an SS1000 in my basement that is still running strong (drives have died on it, but once replaced, it still runs).
Since the settlement with Java, there is no possibility that MS will be forced to do/not do anything with.NET (as it has similar properties to Java). This was a bit under the fold, and I shouldn't have used it as a point.
To ammend then I'll simply add that.NET will be pushed hard in the next months - now that the settlement is made - and now is not the time to stagnate Java by pushing it into OSS limbo for the year it would take for the community to be able to support it.
Sun is a Hardware vendor first and a Software vendor second.
That said, it makes little sense for Sun to loose the Marketing benefit of Sun Java (as it gains no money, it's value to Sun is in the feel-good name recognition it's provides).
Sun sells Linux hardware along with Solaris hardware. Sun StarOffice and OpenOffice is funded by Sun to perpetuate good faith and hardware sales.
From a corporate point of view, Java is a loosing deal that can't be safely dropped (without gaining a lot of bad faith) and open-sourcing it could save them money, but would inevitably force a loss of Java market share while the community ramps-up to start supporting extensions to the current Java architecture (especially now, as.NET is totally in the clear). Further, community - open-source Java implimentations already exist (GCJ), but don't have the support of Sun's native implimentation.*
So what for Sun to do? Same as ever. Keep expanding the product, but don't put too much into it (as it's a money seive).
--
* GCJ and even the 'blackdown' ports of Java having no support means little, (as supported free beer is more usefull than unsupported freedom when it comes to reality) - but their failure to gain market share can be taken as an indicator of the possible stagnantation of an OpenSource Java.
You actually get my point, but are finding the wrong conclusion.
At what point does my personal home page become a commercial concern? What's to stop me from opening an anonymous - personal - home page, with the intent of putting up a political speach web site and it will include a mailing list.
Maybe I get some popularity, and I set up a Google Ad-Words campaign, but have the proceeds directly routed to Ralph Nader's Presidential fund or Rush Limbaugh's legal defence fund. Should my anonymity be protected here? Hint: yes.
What if I do something nasty like sell my list addresses to Evil Empire Marketing. Clearly, at this point, I'm scum, and don't deserve to be protected.
But, you are right, the courts should be able to make that determination just the same - anonymous or not. Yet, I can get these protections by purchasing non-US controlled domain space. This is a good thing. Especially if I'm in China and want to protect my family for having to pay for the bullet the government uses to execute me.
My point here is that the very fine line that you say the courts should have to sort out, needs to start with anonymous access for everybody. On it's face, you can't automatically differentiate a hobby-site from a commercial endeavor, especially when there is no formal mandate on intent (like there is for an FCC television or radio broadcast license).
I was trying to clarify the great-grandparent post - "... Sun get to be where it once was by catching the front of the wave of network computing (become Internet)?"
I was pointing out what Sun did (then) that made thier computers very suitable to run Internet services - while expanding on the thougths of MisanthropicProgram. It was not an attempt at analogy.</defensive>
Your point about current product offerings that are a direct result of Sun R&D is right on. I personally have less use for N1 because I've been end-of-lifing my Sun systems of late (partly because of the multi-CPU/multi-User cost difference with Linux) and the shift in ubiquitous application support that Solaris no longer enjoys.
Doesn't work because we all are affiliated with/something/. And any individual could use that affiliation to effect a commercial outcome.
If I Email a personal inviation to 7 or 8 million of my close "internet family" to try out C!@l!s, and point to someone else's domain - it's still my personal domain. It's still attached to the internet, and I can still SPAM.
Regardless, I should still be able to remain anonymous. Good thing I can register domains through South Africa where privacy still matters.
--
No, I really don't sell C!@l!s, nor do I know where you can get some.
As a corporate user I saw enough value in RedHat's support and subscription model to migrate my servers to RedHat ES3. As a Home user, I run Slackware, because I don't need to run Oracle software on it, and I don't need support.
If Debian had the hardware support I require, if slackware had the Oracle support I require, if Mandrake wasn't so fickle about what they want to support, and whether or not they want to be a server or desktop vendor, if Suse didn't have that weird lizzard icon, er, wasn't tied in with SCO and the United Linux platform. Hmph,
I was upset about the RedHat ES3/Drop RedHat desktop thing, but I quickly got over it. As a community member, you can always compile it yourself or look up White Box Linux.
Wrong. Sun's x86 hardware comes with Solaris or Linux at less than a $100 difference. Sun's x86 architecture is there for the reasons you mention, but do not confuse the difference between SPARC and x86 hardware with a difference between Solaris and Linux.
As a customer myself, Sun has exactly the amount of support that you pay for. If you want platinum 4-hour on-site support, then pay for it.
Finally - concerning Windows - Yes, that's the one Hold-Out. HP, IBM and SGI have all been supporting Windows from very early on, but Sun has not. That alone makes the Linux zealot in my happy.
Another problem is, as a late comer to the Windows Market, Sun will be crushed by HP/Compaq, Dell, Gateway/eMachines and IBM whom have been in the Windows business for a lot longer, and have not otherwise had a lot of reasons to try to squash Sun.
Don't forget, Sun Sells Linux x86 servers. Sun is a hardware vendor first and a software company second.
The post above is close, but not quite right. Sun was the first vendor to have Ethernet and a TCP/IP stack built-in on every computer they offer. Thus their computers from the very early 90s were fully internet ready. They took an existing standard, and marketed it.
Sun is doing much the same now with the Linux Hardware that they are selling. Everything they have done was initially an attempt to boost hardware sales (even Java). Now they need R&D because their Hardware quality (always their strong suit) is slipping. If they loose that, then they loose everything - and Java tech will become a spin-off in the dust of Sun's collapse.
As the original poster pointed out - if you want to pay to avoid Microsoft - it's possible. Especially in an Office environment*.
To the original post's point, there are several Apple/Mac compatible products that most people in Music think are far superior to the products that you are speaking of (of course now most of them come in Mac AND Win versions).... Still qualifies as paying your way around Microsoft.
More importantly to the Linux zealot in me, if it can work under Mac OS X, then it's not difficult to port it to Linux when the time is right (many, many professional software companies have Linux versions that are waiting for customers to request them - the only thing in the way from a Linux perspective is a unified desktop).
*Office environment is the most mainstream use of Windows, and where Linux freeware AND commercial efforts have mostly been focussing for some time. Of course pro audio tools are more specialized, and have less broad interest - thus less developers.
and don't forget that Microsoft* and RedHat (and SCO) are software companies first, where Sun (like IBM and HP) has always been a Hardware company first. Solaris, Java and Star/OpenOffice were all conceived** to sell more hardware. (although for the latter two - they only help boost Linux usability).
*The Microsoft Mouse, notwithstanding - I have one hooked onto every Linux box I run.
**StarOffice was purchased by StarDivision, a German software company. But it's purchase was originally in the interest of selling more hardware by offering a superior OS and desktop solution.
SunFreeware - "Created for and sponsored by Sun Microsystems", does that qualify as "has nothing to do with Sun"? SunSITE (the origins of SunFreeware) was independent.
"Sure, because the world will be so much better with fewer operating systems to choose from? IBM still offer commercial, propriety Unix alongside Linux. Sun offer exactly the same with Solaris and the Sun Java Desktop."
Don't forget that Sun also sells Linux based hardware. They just entered the market 4 years after IBM (AIX), HP (HP/UX and Tru64), SGI/Cray (Irix), etc.
For all your talk about Sun's board and value... Java makes no sense from a core competancy point of view. Java is now no more than really good marketing, as since 1997, Java has kept Sun's name on the tounge of most IT people - but it makes little sense as a corporate strategy.
Java's initial plans were to be a boost for Solaris OS web presense, and eventually a Java 'physical' machine processor. But then Java (the language) moved faster than the now dead Java machine (CPU) could keep up.
Tired plays not-withstanding, perhaps the 'Sun' is setting.
Seriously, Sun's hardware reliability is getting worse, they are selling Linux on their systems - and for quite some time they are no longer the 'dot' in dot com*. Their x86 server offering is not yet well suited to compete with Dell and HP for Linux server hardware either.
*Way back when - Sun used to be the hardware behind one of the Top Level Domain - DNS servers. J.ROOTSERVERS.NET, IIRC. Anyway, that was short lived, and they were quickly replaced with a faster IBM AIX box.
They are re-inventing, but they've been re-inventing since 1996. So, you'd best make sure they have bottomed out before you try to ride their restructuring up. They are in a loosing business (proprietary UNIX hardware), and constantly trying to re-structure to keep their heads above water - being later than all other competitors in entering the x86 market space.
Very insightful from my point of view... In fact having frequently installed Solaris back in the early days ('95) - RedHat was the first Linux distribution that came out with an installer that was ALMOST as friendly as the one Solaris came with. (Just the facts).
Because of the installer, RedHat was MANY folks' first Linux distribution. And I too love Slackware, but I can't use it universally because of it's lack of Oracle support.
Sun Freeware has been up since 1996 (maybe longer). Sun is NOT new in the OpenSource game. Remember, first and foremost, sun has ALWAYS been a hardware vendor. While they make money from Solaris, it's not enough to get by.
Selling x86 Linux servers is actually quite profitable for them these days. Not as much of their market as the Enterprise Class SPARCServer market though.
Solaris has also lost ground as the must universally supported UNIX platform. Once upon a time Solaris could charge what it wanted for it's O.S. because to play thier game you had to pay their prices.
Instead of quacking and crying about it - instead of trying to corner Linux and OSS out of the Market, Sun has done quite the opposite. First, they work with OSS to try and make sure that popular OSS projects work on their platform. At the same time, they started offering their current O.S. as a free (or nominal) download.
Second (Sun re-invention, part II) they started selling x86 systems with Solaris x86 _AND_ Linux support. This plays on Sun's old-school strength of being known as a very reliable hardware vendor (less true now, but their reputation is still strong).
Finally, (re-invention part III) they are moving their Solaris OS (the preferred OS for their SPARC hardware) into a subscrption model that more closely resembles what RedHat has to offer. I highly doubt that this has any more reason than to more closely align sun's two product lines (Solaris and Linux).
Part 1 that I mention happened way back in '94-'96.
Yeah, that's because most customers explicitly want the pages to have all kinds of crap that makes sure the site is only viewable in I.E. - so then - what's the point.
For example, JavaScript dropdown menus as the only way to navigate - yes, a common requirement. Any Browser compliance goes right out the window.
You may realize, that it's impossible to tell whom I am trying to convince of what - and afterall (besides THIS [-1 offtopic] post) my other posts have flowed with the conversation.
Why post anonymously? I don't think anybody considers it karma whoring unless you post to your own posts (or copy the entire text of an article off of an [immune to slashdot effect] website). Following up on replies to your own comments (even if it's a first "rated" post) seem to me to just be good form.
Thanks for listening,
Allen Zadr (or someone pretending to be Allen Zadr)
It sounds like you are describing swf (Macromedia Flash). Also annoying to install, but takes less bandwidth than the perl/php "push" animation methods.
Basically, if you need the client to do some processing then you are relegatedt to Java (WebStart or otherwise) or JavaScript,.NET, or (gasp) an ActiveX (flash qualifies as an ActiveX product).
None of these methods are exactly clean, but from many user's perspective the ancient - built in to most I.E. Java 1.1 - is the most convenient.
Slashdot Mirror
If this exists, could someone kindly point me to it?
--
New account to Karma bonus in 6 days!
I haven't noticed the difference myself, but then again - if this is a new trick, and I've been running 2.6.4 for a month and 2.6 was first released several months ago...how is this a "New Linux Speed Trick"?
And if you look above to this post, you can all see a great deal of decent explanations of what 1000% increase actually means (11%).
However, I wouldn't even try that on RedHat or Mandrake without having the .config file and a list of distribution specific patches.
This was on a Celeron 1GHz laptop, and honestly, I couldn't tell the difference in speed beyond any custom compile. Custom meaning unnecessary device drivers are removed, and the ones that I need are compiled in (as opposed to remaining modularized).
I was at a company that purchased a Sun 10K in 97 (one of the first 200 sold). That thing was not stable for a full year (2 CPU board replacements, all of the CPUs and Memory removed and torqued down twice).
Then one day, it got stable, and ran great after that. In the mean time, it was just a really, really big computer to impress clients on walk-throughs (nothing was in production on it because it wasn't stable enough).
That was the first project to come out of Sun's purchase of the Cray designs, so I wrote it off as "Learning Curve" their 4000 through 9000 series were still pretty stable.
But then they started selling PCI architecture build-around SPARC systems (SPARC 30/60), and their reliability suffered across all platforms. They never really got it back, and I hope that they do. I have an SS1000 in my basement that is still running strong (drives have died on it, but once replaced, it still runs).
I know... a lot of typing to agree with you.
To ammend then I'll simply add that .NET will be pushed hard in the next months - now that the settlement is made - and now is not the time to stagnate Java by pushing it into OSS limbo for the year it would take for the community to be able to support it.
Sun is a Hardware vendor first and a Software vendor second.
That said, it makes little sense for Sun to loose the Marketing benefit of Sun Java (as it gains no money, it's value to Sun is in the feel-good name recognition it's provides).
Sun sells Linux hardware along with Solaris hardware. Sun StarOffice and OpenOffice is funded by Sun to perpetuate good faith and hardware sales.
From a corporate point of view, Java is a loosing deal that can't be safely dropped (without gaining a lot of bad faith) and open-sourcing it could save them money, but would inevitably force a loss of Java market share while the community ramps-up to start supporting extensions to the current Java architecture (especially now, as .NET is totally in the clear). Further, community - open-source Java implimentations already exist (GCJ), but don't have the support of Sun's native implimentation.*
So what for Sun to do? Same as ever. Keep expanding the product, but don't put too much into it (as it's a money seive).
--
* GCJ and even the 'blackdown' ports of Java having no support means little, (as supported free beer is more usefull than unsupported freedom when it comes to reality) - but their failure to gain market share can be taken as an indicator of the possible stagnantation of an OpenSource Java.
At what point does my personal home page become a commercial concern? What's to stop me from opening an anonymous - personal - home page, with the intent of putting up a political speach web site and it will include a mailing list.
Maybe I get some popularity, and I set up a Google Ad-Words campaign, but have the proceeds directly routed to Ralph Nader's Presidential fund or Rush Limbaugh's legal defence fund. Should my anonymity be protected here? Hint: yes.
What if I do something nasty like sell my list addresses to Evil Empire Marketing. Clearly, at this point, I'm scum, and don't deserve to be protected.
But, you are right, the courts should be able to make that determination just the same - anonymous or not. Yet, I can get these protections by purchasing non-US controlled domain space. This is a good thing. Especially if I'm in China and want to protect my family for having to pay for the bullet the government uses to execute me.
My point here is that the very fine line that you say the courts should have to sort out, needs to start with anonymous access for everybody. On it's face, you can't automatically differentiate a hobby-site from a commercial endeavor, especially when there is no formal mandate on intent (like there is for an FCC television or radio broadcast license).
Your point about current product offerings that are a direct result of Sun R&D is right on. I personally have less use for N1 because I've been end-of-lifing my Sun systems of late (partly because of the multi-CPU/multi-User cost difference with Linux) and the shift in ubiquitous application support that Solaris no longer enjoys.
If I Email a personal inviation to 7 or 8 million of my close "internet family" to try out C!@l!s, and point to someone else's domain - it's still my personal domain. It's still attached to the internet, and I can still SPAM.
Regardless, I should still be able to remain anonymous. Good thing I can register domains through South Africa where privacy still matters.
--
No, I really don't sell C!@l!s, nor do I know where you can get some.
As opposed to your cyber-name.
Yeah, my name is Allen, really.
As a corporate user I saw enough value in RedHat's support and subscription model to migrate my servers to RedHat ES3. As a Home user, I run Slackware, because I don't need to run Oracle software on it, and I don't need support.
If Debian had the hardware support I require, if slackware had the Oracle support I require, if Mandrake wasn't so fickle about what they want to support, and whether or not they want to be a server or desktop vendor, if Suse didn't have that weird lizzard icon, er, wasn't tied in with SCO and the United Linux platform. Hmph,
I was upset about the RedHat ES3/Drop RedHat desktop thing, but I quickly got over it. As a community member, you can always compile it yourself or look up White Box Linux.
As a customer myself, Sun has exactly the amount of support that you pay for. If you want platinum 4-hour on-site support, then pay for it.
Finally - concerning Windows - Yes, that's the one Hold-Out. HP, IBM and SGI have all been supporting Windows from very early on, but Sun has not. That alone makes the Linux zealot in my happy.
Another problem is, as a late comer to the Windows Market, Sun will be crushed by HP/Compaq, Dell, Gateway/eMachines and IBM whom have been in the Windows business for a lot longer, and have not otherwise had a lot of reasons to try to squash Sun.
The post above is close, but not quite right. Sun was the first vendor to have Ethernet and a TCP/IP stack built-in on every computer they offer. Thus their computers from the very early 90s were fully internet ready. They took an existing standard, and marketed it.
Sun is doing much the same now with the Linux Hardware that they are selling. Everything they have done was initially an attempt to boost hardware sales (even Java). Now they need R&D because their Hardware quality (always their strong suit) is slipping. If they loose that, then they loose everything - and Java tech will become a spin-off in the dust of Sun's collapse.
To the original post's point, there are several Apple/Mac compatible products that most people in Music think are far superior to the products that you are speaking of (of course now most of them come in Mac AND Win versions).... Still qualifies as paying your way around Microsoft.
More importantly to the Linux zealot in me, if it can work under Mac OS X, then it's not difficult to port it to Linux when the time is right (many, many professional software companies have Linux versions that are waiting for customers to request them - the only thing in the way from a Linux perspective is a unified desktop).
*Office environment is the most mainstream use of Windows, and where Linux freeware AND commercial efforts have mostly been focussing for some time. Of course pro audio tools are more specialized, and have less broad interest - thus less developers.
*The Microsoft Mouse, notwithstanding - I have one hooked onto every Linux box I run.
**StarOffice was purchased by StarDivision, a German software company. But it's purchase was originally in the interest of selling more hardware by offering a superior OS and desktop solution.
I agree with your other points though.
Don't forget that Sun also sells Linux based hardware. They just entered the market 4 years after IBM (AIX), HP (HP/UX and Tru64), SGI/Cray (Irix), etc.
For all your talk about Sun's board and value... Java makes no sense from a core competancy point of view. Java is now no more than really good marketing, as since 1997, Java has kept Sun's name on the tounge of most IT people - but it makes little sense as a corporate strategy.
Java's initial plans were to be a boost for Solaris OS web presense, and eventually a Java 'physical' machine processor. But then Java (the language) moved faster than the now dead Java machine (CPU) could keep up.
Seriously, Sun's hardware reliability is getting worse, they are selling Linux on their systems - and for quite some time they are no longer the 'dot' in dot com*. Their x86 server offering is not yet well suited to compete with Dell and HP for Linux server hardware either.
*Way back when - Sun used to be the hardware behind one of the Top Level Domain - DNS servers. J.ROOTSERVERS.NET, IIRC. Anyway, that was short lived, and they were quickly replaced with a faster IBM AIX box.
They are re-inventing, but they've been re-inventing since 1996. So, you'd best make sure they have bottomed out before you try to ride their restructuring up. They are in a loosing business (proprietary UNIX hardware), and constantly trying to re-structure to keep their heads above water - being later than all other competitors in entering the x86 market space.
Because of the installer, RedHat was MANY folks' first Linux distribution. And I too love Slackware, but I can't use it universally because of it's lack of Oracle support.
Selling x86 Linux servers is actually quite profitable for them these days. Not as much of their market as the Enterprise Class SPARCServer market though.
Instead of quacking and crying about it - instead of trying to corner Linux and OSS out of the Market, Sun has done quite the opposite. First, they work with OSS to try and make sure that popular OSS projects work on their platform. At the same time, they started offering their current O.S. as a free (or nominal) download.
Second (Sun re-invention, part II) they started selling x86 systems with Solaris x86 _AND_ Linux support. This plays on Sun's old-school strength of being known as a very reliable hardware vendor (less true now, but their reputation is still strong).
Finally, (re-invention part III) they are moving their Solaris OS (the preferred OS for their SPARC hardware) into a subscrption model that more closely resembles what RedHat has to offer. I highly doubt that this has any more reason than to more closely align sun's two product lines (Solaris and Linux).
Part 1 that I mention happened way back in '94-'96.
For example,
JavaScript dropdown menus as the only way to navigate - yes, a common requirement. Any Browser compliance goes right out the window.
Why post anonymously? I don't think anybody considers it karma whoring unless you post to your own posts (or copy the entire text of an article off of an [immune to slashdot effect] website). Following up on replies to your own comments (even if it's a first "rated" post) seem to me to just be good form.
Thanks for listening,
Allen Zadr (or someone pretending to be Allen Zadr)
Basically, if you need the client to do some processing then you are relegatedt to Java (WebStart or otherwise) or JavaScript, .NET, or (gasp) an ActiveX (flash qualifies as an ActiveX product).
None of these methods are exactly clean, but from many user's perspective the ancient - built in to most I.E. Java 1.1 - is the most convenient.