I wasn't nitpicking - I was responding to the assertion foreign/out-of-state tuition was some sort of money windfall for public universities, which is simply not even close to the case. Your tuition wasn't paid for by the state, but the entirety of all tuition paid by everyone at a university doesn't come close to funding a years budget. In-state tuition isnt the only component to "subsidizing" education.
I think some American students feelings are more anti-foreigner due to the ramp up in outsourcing, but companies certainly are warmer due to the fact they have growing outlets to hire these foreign students into. I can't say I'm indifferent - the CS department is overcrowded here which causes a variety of headaches, and I can't help but notice a very sizable portion of the crowd aren't citizens.
The main point I was making was in response to the point saying we're getting brain drain from India (or wherever) into the US. Getting a degree from a US unversity, then getting recruited by IBM at UT-Austin to get a job with IBM-India, does not equate to brain drain to the united states - we're simply subsidizing the education.
I'm not sure what you're agreeing with. Any foreign student studying at a public university is being subsidized paying out of state tuition or not - the infrastructure and for example, UT's 11 billion dollar endowment, are the by far and away a product of 100+ years of American taxpayer investment and donations.
What exactly am I mistaken about as far as "deals between universities and companies"? The point of fact I made is that tech companies, large and small, now directly recruit foreign students (primarily indian) to go work in india directly after graduating from UT, while at UT. That certainly didn't happen on any appreciable scale 4 years ago. There's multiple fliers on the walls of the various UT-CS buildings at this moment, with full time recruiters dedicated to this effort - I saw plenty of them in person at the two career fairs I went to myself only a month ago. Theres no "deal" - it's simply that UT graduates a ton of foreign students, and companies are now just taking advantage of the education provided here to attempt hiring people to their foreign offices and far cheaper wages.
As far as the percentage, you're right, 25% of UT's entire undergraduate population isnt foreign. However, as far as the (crowded) undergraduate CS/EE deparments go, my guess is 25% is a low guess as to the percentage of foreign students. I'm writing a paper about it and have been trying to track down hard demographic stastitcs, so whenever I mention it again perhaps I'll have something better to rely than my personal observations having been here nearly 4 years now. As far as the graduate student population, my personal observations go a little further as there are obviously far fewer students and I have a few grad student friends. There's no question 75% (low guess) of the CS/EE grad students at the university of texas are not US citizens. In the 4 years I've been here, I have not had one American TA or Grader in a CS or EE class.
For the record, I'm an undergraduate at the University of Texas.
Here, Foreign students pay out of state tuition, the same as an US citizen from outside of the state, and calling out of state tuition revenue a profit center is a laughable.
A significant percentage (I'd guess at least 25%) of CS/EE undergrads at UT are foreign. Thats probably a pretty conservative guess.
UT also offers a significant number of out-of-state tuition waivers on a variety of part-time jobs on campus. I ran into this over and over again searching for part-time work this semester. All IT jobs on campus are completely dominated by foreign students, and a significant number of them are gaining instate tuition on top of their pay for replacing printer toner 20/hours a week in the midst of doing homework.
The graduate departments in CS/EE are overwhelmingly foreign students - I'd say 75% is a conservative estimate. I'm currently in the middle of trying to get hard numbers, but I unfortunately dont have them yet.
Public Universities are subsidizing at least some of a students education even paying out-of-state tuition. In the case of the graduate school, the RA/TA dollars are going to foreign students overwhelmingly. It disturbing to me that the CS/EE departments at UT (usually ranked top 10) graduate far, far more foreign grad students than american.
This isn't brain drain from India->US at this point, its just training here for a job back home. It pervades a lot of my fellow foreign students thinking these days - rather than hoping to land a job/visa in the US, the plan now is simply to receive their education here and return home. Indeed, many, many companies have fliers/recruiters dedicated to hiring foreign students to their Indian location directly out of college (IBM, General Motors, etc). That's a new thing since say, way back in the year 2000. It rather disturbing really.
I'm a University of Texas Undergraduate, and a very large percentage of my classmates in the CS program are foreign. Some CS mixes naturally with EE, and the same thing can be said there. I have no idea what the limitations or requirements are for foreign students (nor student visas), but the amount in the CS/EE program at a state university is rather amazing...
Another strange fact I was made aware of was when looking for part-time work on campus this semester was the amazing competition for 7-8/hr "computer lab assistant" jobs. It turns out there are a decent number of jobs that, if you work 20/hr a week or more, somehow allow you to gain instate tuition. These jobs are overwhelmingly dominated by foreign students, who are therefore paying the same subsidized instate tuition I am.
The graduate programs even more interesting. I don't think in the entire time I've been in the UT CS program (1 semester left) I've ever had anything other than a foreign TA. A friend who will be graduating in with a Masters in EE this semester says she thinks there must obviously be no limit or requirement to the number of foreign students. I have no hard data or knowledge, but it seems an overwhelming majority of the CS/EE grad students from the University of Texas are not citizens.
American Universities for quite some time have been considered the best in the world (despite our elementary schooling constantly being trashed)... but with foreign students dominating the CS/EE programs, I suppose it doesn't matter. At least in the case of public universities, we're subsidizing the education and training of people who will now be filling a job overseas.
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I wasn't nitpicking - I was responding to the assertion foreign/out-of-state tuition was some sort of money windfall for public universities, which is simply not even close to the case. Your tuition wasn't paid for by the state, but the entirety of all tuition paid by everyone at a university doesn't come close to funding a years budget. In-state tuition isnt the only component to "subsidizing" education.
I think some American students feelings are more anti-foreigner due to the ramp up in outsourcing, but companies certainly are warmer due to the fact they have growing outlets to hire these foreign students into. I can't say I'm indifferent - the CS department is overcrowded here which causes a variety of headaches, and I can't help but notice a very sizable portion of the crowd aren't citizens.
The main point I was making was in response to the point saying we're getting brain drain from India (or wherever) into the US. Getting a degree from a US unversity, then getting recruited by IBM at UT-Austin to get a job with IBM-India, does not equate to brain drain to the united states - we're simply subsidizing the education.
I'm not sure what you're agreeing with. Any foreign student studying at a public university is being subsidized paying out of state tuition or not - the infrastructure and for example, UT's 11 billion dollar endowment, are the by far and away a product of 100+ years of American taxpayer investment and donations. What exactly am I mistaken about as far as "deals between universities and companies"? The point of fact I made is that tech companies, large and small, now directly recruit foreign students (primarily indian) to go work in india directly after graduating from UT, while at UT. That certainly didn't happen on any appreciable scale 4 years ago. There's multiple fliers on the walls of the various UT-CS buildings at this moment, with full time recruiters dedicated to this effort - I saw plenty of them in person at the two career fairs I went to myself only a month ago. Theres no "deal" - it's simply that UT graduates a ton of foreign students, and companies are now just taking advantage of the education provided here to attempt hiring people to their foreign offices and far cheaper wages. As far as the percentage, you're right, 25% of UT's entire undergraduate population isnt foreign. However, as far as the (crowded) undergraduate CS/EE deparments go, my guess is 25% is a low guess as to the percentage of foreign students. I'm writing a paper about it and have been trying to track down hard demographic stastitcs, so whenever I mention it again perhaps I'll have something better to rely than my personal observations having been here nearly 4 years now. As far as the graduate student population, my personal observations go a little further as there are obviously far fewer students and I have a few grad student friends. There's no question 75% (low guess) of the CS/EE grad students at the university of texas are not US citizens. In the 4 years I've been here, I have not had one American TA or Grader in a CS or EE class.
For the record, I'm an undergraduate at the University of Texas. Here, Foreign students pay out of state tuition, the same as an US citizen from outside of the state, and calling out of state tuition revenue a profit center is a laughable. A significant percentage (I'd guess at least 25%) of CS/EE undergrads at UT are foreign. Thats probably a pretty conservative guess. UT also offers a significant number of out-of-state tuition waivers on a variety of part-time jobs on campus. I ran into this over and over again searching for part-time work this semester. All IT jobs on campus are completely dominated by foreign students, and a significant number of them are gaining instate tuition on top of their pay for replacing printer toner 20/hours a week in the midst of doing homework. The graduate departments in CS/EE are overwhelmingly foreign students - I'd say 75% is a conservative estimate. I'm currently in the middle of trying to get hard numbers, but I unfortunately dont have them yet. Public Universities are subsidizing at least some of a students education even paying out-of-state tuition. In the case of the graduate school, the RA/TA dollars are going to foreign students overwhelmingly. It disturbing to me that the CS/EE departments at UT (usually ranked top 10) graduate far, far more foreign grad students than american. This isn't brain drain from India->US at this point, its just training here for a job back home. It pervades a lot of my fellow foreign students thinking these days - rather than hoping to land a job/visa in the US, the plan now is simply to receive their education here and return home. Indeed, many, many companies have fliers/recruiters dedicated to hiring foreign students to their Indian location directly out of college (IBM, General Motors, etc). That's a new thing since say, way back in the year 2000. It rather disturbing really.
I'm a University of Texas Undergraduate, and a very large percentage of my classmates in the CS program are foreign. Some CS mixes naturally with EE, and the same thing can be said there. I have no idea what the limitations or requirements are for foreign students (nor student visas), but the amount in the CS/EE program at a state university is rather amazing... Another strange fact I was made aware of was when looking for part-time work on campus this semester was the amazing competition for 7-8/hr "computer lab assistant" jobs. It turns out there are a decent number of jobs that, if you work 20/hr a week or more, somehow allow you to gain instate tuition. These jobs are overwhelmingly dominated by foreign students, who are therefore paying the same subsidized instate tuition I am. The graduate programs even more interesting. I don't think in the entire time I've been in the UT CS program (1 semester left) I've ever had anything other than a foreign TA. A friend who will be graduating in with a Masters in EE this semester says she thinks there must obviously be no limit or requirement to the number of foreign students. I have no hard data or knowledge, but it seems an overwhelming majority of the CS/EE grad students from the University of Texas are not citizens. American Universities for quite some time have been considered the best in the world (despite our elementary schooling constantly being trashed)... but with foreign students dominating the CS/EE programs, I suppose it doesn't matter. At least in the case of public universities, we're subsidizing the education and training of people who will now be filling a job overseas.