that was the reason companies were mentioned as the biggest benefactor. seriously, how many people have the expertise to automatically restore their machine at work ?
seriously, how many people know how to change oil for their car (probably more than those who really can code, but hey) ? we're not getting cars with sealed un-serviceable-everything because for some tasks a specialised person is required...
windows is easy to manage for somple solutions like a couple of separate machines. it might take more time (reinstalling after some mysterious problems or virus outbreak or whatnot), but most actions at this level are braindead. once you get to something more advanced, actual skills, which usually involve a lot of clicking around, knowing way around registry (yuck) and even scripting with windows native solutions (ouch...). such a skillset is not either common or cheap - actually anybody with even mediocre _knowledge_ about windows systems costs quite a lot of money to hire. the imagination that windows experts are cheap and easy to find is stimulated by hordes of clueless monkeys who pretend they can handle problems. it's quite interesting to see how persons like that are trying to do the same in linux world - with the power given by linux/gnu/whatever tools they break things with surprising ease and skill, making it a painful jorney to find out "what happened now".
well, a cdrom costs 20ls here, that's close to 20 pounds. let's say, 360x20, 7200 pounds. that's a drop considering the amount they have spent. i suppose they could have saved a lot of time, which seems to be the most expensive factor here.
additionally, if they are even remotely considering gnome/kde, that means they are not sticking to a hardware that is only barely capable of win3.1 (also, migrating to winxp was used as compare case) - so new hardware that probably has cdroms/flash was either acquired or planned. oh, omitting hdd in favour of cdrom would also probably allow to save some fifty or slightly less pounds per machine - not a breathtaking amount, but kinda helpful.
flash could be more reliable, though, both cds and cdroms are quite fragile and unreliable, especially in public space.
btw, i really hope they will be reading this discussion a couple of days later, among flaming there are some interesting ideas that they could adopt;)
open/save dialogs, yeeesssss.... i use kde, but some applications use gtk dialogs (gimp, thunderbird and others). i'm pissed off each time use one of those dialogs. that must be the worst advertisment gnome could ever have for other desktop environment users.
digikam indeed might be a wise choice, especially if moves towards gallery2 integration succeed. as for a windows version, that probably will be available with kde4 - not for another year, though:) anyway, it should be possible to start using it now (dualboot, separate machine, virtualization - depending on the situation), like importing data, finding best usage patterns, tagging and so on - and later possibly use native win version.
well, sado- part probably comes from the fact that you consciously or unconsciously want to make others use it, too;) as for auto hide/show part - oo.org 1.x used that paradigm in several places, more than 2.0. the functionality was removed/replaced because supposedly tests told that people were not comfortable with using them (and to be more mso-like...). i kinda liked them, but only after i had grasped the concept and worked with them for a while.
carmageddon 2, if you can get it working nicely, it's ipx stuff seems to work on win9x only (can't tell about wine); total annihilation, pretty nice one rts.
...or should the state be able to copy your property, thus not depriving you from it, but enriching the other person ? i guess this is the biggest difference in the end.
i'm not completely sure, but what about cases when bios update was required to support more/different ram ? then there are simply bugs in bios that vendor refuses to fix. and when you get to suspending/resuming and broken bios implementations... given the hype that "laptops sell better than desktops !", this is becoming more and more important.
a practical example : fujitsu-siemens lifebook c series 1020 laptop has broken usb controller suspending part (and probably also video chipset stuff somewhat). i was unable to get the problem solved from them despite several attempts. i'd guess i could have more chances with weird guys all over the globe just doing this for fun.
then there was an asrock mobo with broken acpi tables data (two bytes swapped). i was lucky that it was brand new mobo, so i even got a bios update from them - but i got it personally and it was not put up for public download.
then all those cases of "old" (a couple of years) mobos, which were working fine, but some upgrade requires a bios update... which is nowhere to find at that point. and this is the optimistic scenario, in many cases a problem could be solved in bios code, but most if not all companies refuse to provide any support for older motherboards, probably because both of no resources allocated for that and forcing users to get hw upgrade instead of doing a simple bios update.
so yeah, i can definitely see where this could be massively useful.
it was ok to create new classes to extend java, but it was not ok to extnd existing classes and pass them as official ones - exactly what ms did. they created/extended some classes and passed in a way which made it almost impossible to tell for poor windows coders that those are windows-specific. so, sun came & hit ms in the nose for that.
it's a bit simplified and maybe slightly incorrect, but you get the idea:)
as for other projects, they are _not_ called 'java' or even 'sun java' - as you noted, they are called gcj and whatnot. that java executable probably is a link to keep some stuff working that expects a particulary named executable.
there are quite a bit of java applets in web environments (for example, remote server control stuff from big vendors), part of openoffice.org, already mentioned azureus and a bunch of smaller applications. and then all the stuff that uses it as a backend for webservices. now when i think about it, i am using directly or indirectly quite a lot of stuff in java, more than i would have thought before.
what about recursion ?;) anyway, this "fight" over capabilities seems quite useless. a definitive list of things would probably be quite equal (even though some would blame hardware or software vendors for some parts of these lists). evaluating these points in each situation is the best choice - and i'd say the story is about the fact that linux distributions tend to win in more situations than before, especially if care is taken when designing the environment (like choosing supported hardware and so on).
it's hard not to use apps maximised on 15" screen. it's somewhat hard to use them maximised, too;) that said, i am using gimp and i've so used to it's interface that i found it _very_ hard to use krita... i read something about ability to detach it's toolbars in a gimp-style, though, so 'ill probably try ot when slackware upgrades;)
that usually works in fresh stories and near the top of the page. in this case it was more like expressing my "+" to give author at least a slight moral boost:)
oh-i-would-mod-you-up. slashdot, why don't you extend modpoint expiry time so that we can use them when it would really be necessary, not just quickly moderate here and there ?
Re:Definitely has uses but..
on
Oracle Linux?
·
· Score: 1
but oracle would have to support their os on goddamn-many hardware combinations... which currently distributors handle for them. that can turn out to be a lot of work, or they would have to restrict supported hw range a lot. none of these looks like a bright future.
well, in addition to all other responses - most of the things you listed actually can be done. well, with a decent window manager, that is. i've heard that even windows has utilities to give it virtual desktop capabilities and window ordering options. of course, it's easier to use when those are built-in;)
I'd also like to be able to control how it reacts to things a little more. Like how it crops anything you use a magic wand on, so you can't slightly adjusted what it selected. You have to reselect the area.
indeed, it would be nice to easily control all tools - even simple crop allows resizing only by two corners. very annoying when i want to align crop at large zoom in the middle of the image.
i think development version had something about new selection tool, which sort of helps here... but if that's true, i have no idea why add new tool instead of making existing one more flexible (like allowing to resize it easily everywhere). or have i missed something ?:)
otherwise i am using gimp almost exclusively, and have no problem with many windows. as already mentioned, virtual desktops win;)
and it seems nvidia driver download chooser is broken. go to http://www.nvidia.com/content/drivers/drivers.asp, choose "graphics driver" -> "geforce and tnt2" -> linux ia32 (or amd64). wtf ? why a redirect to some quadro page ?
going to linux driver page at http://www.nvidia.com/object/unix.html also shows 1.0-8774 as the latest for all supported oses/archs, so no, it is not fixed.
hi, nvidia. could you please provide open specs ? thanks.
i've heard stories that firefox developers mostly favor windows, and this shows in product quality on linux... complaints included both performance and functionality (configurability) problems, compared to windows versions.
Slashdot Mirror
that was the reason companies were mentioned as the biggest benefactor.
seriously, how many people have the expertise to automatically restore their machine at work ?
seriously, how many people know how to change oil for their car (probably more than those who really can code, but hey) ?
we're not getting cars with sealed un-serviceable-everything because for some tasks a specialised person is required...
windows is easy to manage for somple solutions like a couple of separate machines. it might take more time (reinstalling after some mysterious problems or virus outbreak or whatnot), but most actions at this level are braindead.
once you get to something more advanced, actual skills, which usually involve a lot of clicking around, knowing way around registry (yuck) and even scripting with windows native solutions (ouch...).
such a skillset is not either common or cheap - actually anybody with even mediocre _knowledge_ about windows systems costs quite a lot of money to hire.
the imagination that windows experts are cheap and easy to find is stimulated by hordes of clueless monkeys who pretend they can handle problems.
it's quite interesting to see how persons like that are trying to do the same in linux world - with the power given by linux/gnu/whatever tools they break things with surprising ease and skill, making it a painful jorney to find out "what happened now".
mmmm. cool. drinking, flirting...
reminds me about bofh articles regarding salespersons.
well, a cdrom costs 20ls here, that's close to 20 pounds. let's say, 360x20, 7200 pounds. that's a drop considering the amount they have spent.
;)
i suppose they could have saved a lot of time, which seems to be the most expensive factor here.
additionally, if they are even remotely considering gnome/kde, that means they are not sticking to a hardware that is only barely capable of win3.1 (also, migrating to winxp was used as compare case) - so new hardware that probably has cdroms/flash was either acquired or planned.
oh, omitting hdd in favour of cdrom would also probably allow to save some fifty or slightly less pounds per machine - not a breathtaking amount, but kinda helpful.
flash could be more reliable, though, both cds and cdroms are quite fragile and unreliable, especially in public space.
btw, i really hope they will be reading this discussion a couple of days later, among flaming there are some interesting ideas that they could adopt
open/save dialogs, yeeesssss....
i use kde, but some applications use gtk dialogs (gimp, thunderbird and others).
i'm pissed off each time use one of those dialogs. that must be the worst advertisment gnome could ever have for other desktop environment users.
digikam indeed might be a wise choice, especially if moves towards gallery2 integration succeed. :)
as for a windows version, that probably will be available with kde4 - not for another year, though
anyway, it should be possible to start using it now (dualboot, separate machine, virtualization - depending on the situation), like importing data, finding best usage patterns, tagging and so on - and later possibly use native win version.
well, sado- part probably comes from the fact that you consciously or unconsciously want to make others use it, too ;)
as for auto hide/show part - oo.org 1.x used that paradigm in several places, more than 2.0.
the functionality was removed/replaced because supposedly tests told that people were not comfortable with using them (and to be more mso-like...).
i kinda liked them, but only after i had grasped the concept and worked with them for a while.
carmageddon 2, if you can get it working nicely, it's ipx stuff seems to work on win9x only (can't tell about wine);
total annihilation, pretty nice one rts.
...or should the state be able to copy your property, thus not depriving you from it, but enriching the other person ?
i guess this is the biggest difference in the end.
i'm not completely sure, but what about cases when bios update was required to support more/different ram ?
then there are simply bugs in bios that vendor refuses to fix.
and when you get to suspending/resuming and broken bios implementations... given the hype that "laptops sell better than desktops !", this is becoming more and more important.
a practical example :
fujitsu-siemens lifebook c series 1020 laptop has broken usb controller suspending part (and probably also video chipset stuff somewhat).
i was unable to get the problem solved from them despite several attempts. i'd guess i could have more chances with weird guys all over the globe just doing this for fun.
then there was an asrock mobo with broken acpi tables data (two bytes swapped). i was lucky that it was brand new mobo, so i even got a bios update from them - but i got it personally and it was not put up for public download.
then all those cases of "old" (a couple of years) mobos, which were working fine, but some upgrade requires a bios update... which is nowhere to find at that point. and this is the optimistic scenario, in many cases a problem could be solved in bios code, but most if not all companies refuse to provide any support for older motherboards, probably because both of no resources allocated for that and forcing users to get hw upgrade instead of doing a simple bios update.
so yeah, i can definitely see where this could be massively useful.
it was ok to create new classes to extend java, but it was not ok to extnd existing classes and pass them as official ones - exactly what ms did. they created/extended some classes and passed in a way which made it almost impossible to tell for poor windows coders that those are windows-specific. so, sun came & hit ms in the nose for that.
:)
it's a bit simplified and maybe slightly incorrect, but you get the idea
as for other projects, they are _not_ called 'java' or even 'sun java' - as you noted, they are called gcj and whatnot. that java executable probably is a link to keep some stuff working that expects a particulary named executable.
there are quite a bit of java applets in web environments (for example, remote server control stuff from big vendors), part of openoffice.org, already mentioned azureus and a bunch of smaller applications. and then all the stuff that uses it as a backend for webservices.
now when i think about it, i am using directly or indirectly quite a lot of stuff in java, more than i would have thought before.
what about recursion ? ;)
anyway, this "fight" over capabilities seems quite useless. a definitive list of things would probably be quite equal (even though some would blame hardware or software vendors for some parts of these lists).
evaluating these points in each situation is the best choice - and i'd say the story is about the fact that linux distributions tend to win in more situations than before, especially if care is taken when designing the environment (like choosing supported hardware and so on).
it's hard not to use apps maximised on 15" screen. it's somewhat hard to use them maximised, too ;) ;)
that said, i am using gimp and i've so used to it's interface that i found it _very_ hard to use krita...
i read something about ability to detach it's toolbars in a gimp-style, though, so 'ill probably try ot when slackware upgrades
it's surprising you haven't heard of this case.
it was quite a poster-story.
see http://news.com.com/2008-1082_3-5065859.html, for example
that usually works in fresh stories and near the top of the page. in this case it was more like expressing my "+" to give author at least a slight moral boost :)
oh. i thought that was obvious
and not only these days...
oh-i-would-mod-you-up.
slashdot, why don't you extend modpoint expiry time so that we can use them when it would really be necessary, not just quickly moderate here and there ?
but oracle would have to support their os on goddamn-many hardware combinations... which currently distributors handle for them. that can turn out to be a lot of work, or they would have to restrict supported hw range a lot. none of these looks like a bright future.
well, in addition to all other responses - most of the things you listed actually can be done. well, with a decent window manager, that is. ;)
i've heard that even windows has utilities to give it virtual desktop capabilities and window ordering options.
of course, it's easier to use when those are built-in
indeed, it would be nice to easily control all tools - even simple crop allows resizing only by two corners. very annoying when i want to align crop at large zoom in the middle of the image.
i think development version had something about new selection tool, which sort of helps here... but if that's true, i have no idea why add new tool instead of making existing one more flexible (like allowing to resize it easily everywhere). or have i missed something ?
otherwise i am using gimp almost exclusively, and have no problem with many windows. as already mentioned, virtual desktops win
and it seems nvidia driver download chooser is broken. go to, choose "graphics driver" -> "geforce and tnt2" -> linux ia32 (or amd64). wtf ? why a redirect to some quadro page ?
http://www.nvidia.com/content/drivers/drivers.asp
going to linux driver page at http://www.nvidia.com/object/unix.html also shows 1.0-8774 as the latest for all supported oses/archs, so no, it is not fixed.
hi, nvidia. could you please provide open specs ? thanks.
i've heard stories that firefox developers mostly favor windows, and this shows in product quality on linux...
complaints included both performance and functionality (configurability) problems, compared to windows versions.
i've seen quite often "no plugins installed". after some questions - "oooh, i had flash installed, but that doesn't count".
i've had flash bring whole computer to knees in opera (linux).
so, the first question would be "REALLY no plugins ? and yes, flash counts"