Man, I'm so surprised that the problem happened with javascript. It's just so unprecedented that javascript would have a vulnerability. It has such a good history, you know, of safety.
Not that I'm speaking in favor of Chrome here either- the rumored ios exploit used the ios version of chrome, and it's not been the most secure browser or anything on Windows.
But I just don't understand why every browser jumps through every hoop possible to fully support even the stupidest javascript everything. On a PC you need a bunch of special addons to limit the damage, and generally your options are "block all scripts" or "allow all scripts", with no ability to say "allow scripts that don't X, Y, or Z". Browsers should absolutely allow more restrictive profiles here, and probably the default should not fully implement javascript, which maintains its record of pile of shit virus vector for twenty years straight.
> You think most people buy the high end of this line, which costs almost ~$3000?
The funny part is you'll see the same people make an argument like "Apple is for rich kids, it's overpriced", pointing to a 1000 dollar ipad in one place, and then compare it to a 3000 dollar competitor in another and be like "and it's underpowered!".
Anyway, to your point- I doubt most people will buy the top end thing, but it is a real offering that does have a ton of power to it. If you're a professional who doesn't like input lag or whatever, you will probably consider such an expense.
If your point is that you can get a powerful surface for powerful cash, then that's a good point, and often not brought up- most competitors simply don't scale that high.
But I really feel you are not being fair to compare a nearly THREE THOUSAND DOLLAR current gen surface to a pretty ghetto laptop from four years ago.
1800 pounds converts to 2740 USD, according to Google.
An Alienware laptop that costs 2500 USD has:
Intel® Core i7-4710MQ processor, 4-cores, 6MB Cache, Overclocked up to 3.7GHz Dual NVIDIA® GeForce® GTX 970M with 6GB GDDR5 each (NVIDIA SLI® Enabled) 16GB Dual Channel DDR3L at 1600MHz 1TB 7200RPM SATA 6Gb/s 18.4" WLED FHD (1920 X 1080) 2MP camera (with something about double speakers or some crap)
The big point here is: dual mobile nvidia graphics cards. That's absolutely monstrous- that kicks the shit out of onboard graphics.
Now, the unfair part is that this is an 18 inch laptop, compared to a much more portable surface. But the surface doesn't have comparable performance to a laptop, at the high end (and note you can spend even more on a laptop).
I semi-dispute that ios is spyware. Mostly, I'd like you to cite something- ios certainly wants to be "connected" (much like Windows 10), but, unlike Windows 10, it seems eminently possible to turn all that off and actually have it be off. I wouldn't be outright shocked if it was doing something sketchy- the direct comparison to Windows 10 is OS X, not ios- but still, would like to know.
Secondly, I don't see many folks talking about running linux on a surface, and I feel that this is a really neglected point. It really hadn't occurred to me that this was NOT locked down hardware, and that you could turn around and run free software on it. Though it won't help me, is there a guide on installation you could link to? Out of the set of "all the people in the world who would want to run Linux on their Surface", a surprisingly large percent are probably reading this thread, after all.
Second,,,, you will want to also get rid of the keylogger service (((( this continues to run and remotely log your data,,,, sending it to microsoft ))))
Windows is easy, Linux is hard. In Linux, sometimes you have to use a package manager. In Windows, all you need to do is, turn off one drive, log out of your microsoft account, ensure one drive isn't active, disable cortana, add one hundred entries to hosts, add them to windows firewall, add them to an external firewall because Windows ignores hosts and windows firewall, disable and remove seven services, remove several entries from a task scheduler, change several group policies, and spam over twenty wusa uninstall commands from the command line.
Ah, I see you are playing one of my favorite forum games- you are trying to tell people how to disable the Microsoft spying!
You have missed TONS of thing, even with that link. I will list just one thing that the thing doesn't do: it doesn't turn off the "Customer Experience Improvement Program", which is normally disabled under task scheduler. This continues to leak tons of data if not disabled.
In practice, the steps to getting Windows 10 to a state that is assumed to be not talky, are massive and generally incomplete. I could list many many more things that the winaero link doesn't deal with, and if you just scroll down to the comments section you'll see people listing massive strings of commands that MIGHT make the OS do what they want.
If Linux had anything like this, you'd be laughing your ass off. Because it's Windows and you're some AC Windows fanfuck, you bury your head in the sand.
First, no desktop OS would try to betray its owner and user. Then, no desktop OS would ignore the network stack it provides, bypassing its own host files. Then, no desktop OS would ignore its own firewall, built to allow custom rules.
Now, no desktop OS can dictate to your router what it does with packets.
So literally everything that it can do from your machine to fuck you, it does. Your opinion is that, because you still have physical control over at least one intervening node, that you are safe. That is quite the stretch. Isn't this a batshit crazy standard to set? "Windows doesn't strangle me in the night, because it doesn't yet have arms... ok, now it has arms, but they aren't able to overpower my own arms... yet..."
It absolutely bypasses its own firewall and hosts. It can't bypass your router rules. Is Windows so good that you have keep it behind a firewall that stops hardcoded OS functions? That's a very expensive pet to maintain.
Remember to update your firewall with every windows update, based on guides provided by people who are trying to keep up with wireshark. Solid user experience, there.
I am glad the debate is currently between those claiming the number of stealth domains contacted is over a hundred, and those claiming it is merely dozens.
The sad fact is, we don't really understand ("we" meaning anyone not on the Microsoft team, and it is possible that no one person there has a handle on it) what the hell is going on.
Here is what we do know: with default settings, the amount of drama is hard to qualify. It absolutely pushes stuff to bing when you try to type calc.exe, cortana gets updated with contacts, calls made, etc., so probably apps ran intermittently get pushed to that, windows downloads tiles even if told not to, windows bypasses vpn when it can, unless stopped by an external firewall, windows ignores host file entries for certain connections.
And these are just the ones that Microsoft actually bothers to DNS before contacting. I'll hazard a guess that you'll eventually need blocks by IP numbers.
I don't know if Microsoft contacts a literal hundred domains. I think the fact that it's a giant hassle to make that number zero is scary as shit, and out of everyone who has released telemetry removal and spyware blocking tools, no one is certain that they got everything.
Clock is ticking, dreamchaser! You have yet to provide a single actionable method to turn off the spyware, besides claiming it was trivial to do so. Perhaps there was no room in the margin to write the proof?
Clock is ticking, Neo! You haven't shown how to disable telemetry yet, despite your claim, and you definitely haven't touched on all the other related stuffs, much of which I haven't brought up yet. You said it was easy, and what you claim does not turn off telemetry. Respond quickly if it's easy, or even possible!
Claiming that older versions of Windows leak data is quite the distraction tactic. Can you prove to me that crashes are reported to microsoft with no opt out? I very much doubt that.
I'll also point out that none of what you are saying is either official, nor the general opinion of people who are all running packet sniffers on external boxes- and even if entirely true, it's still a huge problem, and still represents data leaks with no opt out- you're just saying we've been deceived for close to a decade in some cases.
If what you say is true, Microsoft is vastly more spy-ey than we even thought, and we should be even more angry.
Parent claims that on accessing calc, with sniffer, he sees 100 domain hits. You claim NO WAY, it's only five. And you discovered a way to work around that, involving a hosts file to block it.
First- this is still absolutely ludicrous, not just bad.
Second- given that this is a stream of encrypted data that contains your user action being beamed upstream, *WHY DO YOU ASSUME IT IS THE SAME BEHAVIOR IN ALL CASES*???
Simply put, it could be only five for you, and a hundred for him. It's an undocumented spy behavior, so it could be doing stuff different on tuesday than sunday. LITERALLY NO ONE KNOWS OUTSIDE OF MICROSOFT!!!
Pretend you were documenting an actual virus. Would you assume that because you saw a different network action when you inspected packets than someone else, that he's wrong? Or that the virus is just acting differently for its own reasons? Given that you can't look at the source, given that it's definitely spewing data, and given that there's no official claim over what the fuck is going on...
Why even assume he's wrong for a moment? He's reporting what he saw, and its in line with what others on the net see. No one even knows what this data fucking IS!
That is pretty interesting. Best would be Linux, though!
I wouldn't be too shocked if Blizzard ported to either PS4, Xbone, or both. They just announced a bunch of class changes and I honestly feel you could make a stronger case than ever for being able to play with a lesser input device like a gamepad- I don't think they are that dumbed down yet, but it seems that that's the direction they are at least headed.
Final Fantasy 14 is a solid MMO that is available on Windows, OS X, and PS4.
Interestingly, Overwatch is announced to be Windows only at the moment, and that game seems ripe for a console port.
I will say this- given that the EULA for Windows 10 definitely allows them to do this, even if you figure it out, there's not really any limit to what they start doing in the future, except that which they are legally bound against. Interesting work for sure, though.
Can't play WoW on a console. Can't play SWTOR on a console. Plenty of games I run have no console versions. Honestly, Linux has more games I care about than consoles do, most especially with emulation.
I get that you can run some great stuff on a dedicated console- I like my Wii U a lot- but it simply can't compare graphically or in many other ways to what a PC can do. And much of the great PC games are only made for Windows, sadly.
Well, I'll let someone else address whether it is crippled or not- I'm no expert. I will say that Apple Pencil is supposed to be a good pressure stylus- that's one of the selling points of the new ipad. And by selling point, of course I mean 100 dollar additional product- but still.
Others are bringing up that the newer Surface Pro 4 is more powerful. I'll point out that the topic is kind of about the Surface Book, which is more powerful than that (and also mostly a laptop).
The flipside here is that the Surface Pro 1 wasn't advertised as "hey, here's a new product, but it has input lag if you try to use it". That's like advertising 3D graphics on the NES and then pointing to the N64 and saying "see, they got'em now!".
Anyway, the current Surface line definitely scales up, with increased power at each level.
I am about 50% on the belief that there are still shills active on slashdot, but the real reason shills are rarer here than, say, certain tech subreddits, is because of the large amount of user accountability- shills tend to get downvoted and usually have to post AC, meaning that a typical user won't see the shills as easily as can be forced on the "democracy" types of sites where upvotes or likes or whatever will give the shill enough of a platform. There's also a lot of people to call out shills here, so it's lower reward. But I still see posts that seem designed to craft narrative instead of share opinion, share information, or argue, and those are at the very least candidates for shills.
Slashdot Mirror
Man, I'm so surprised that the problem happened with javascript. It's just so unprecedented that javascript would have a vulnerability. It has such a good history, you know, of safety.
Not that I'm speaking in favor of Chrome here either- the rumored ios exploit used the ios version of chrome, and it's not been the most secure browser or anything on Windows.
But I just don't understand why every browser jumps through every hoop possible to fully support even the stupidest javascript everything. On a PC you need a bunch of special addons to limit the damage, and generally your options are "block all scripts" or "allow all scripts", with no ability to say "allow scripts that don't X, Y, or Z". Browsers should absolutely allow more restrictive profiles here, and probably the default should not fully implement javascript, which maintains its record of pile of shit virus vector for twenty years straight.
> I loved trying to get just a little more processor time out of the box
So the machines you bought were fast, but you wanted faster, and you pushed towards that.
> The point is that if you can't be creative with these inferior machines, you are doing something wrong.
Is that the point, or is it that people can buy something that is fast, but want something faster, and push towards that?
> You think most people buy the high end of this line, which costs almost ~$3000?
The funny part is you'll see the same people make an argument like "Apple is for rich kids, it's overpriced", pointing to a 1000 dollar ipad in one place, and then compare it to a 3000 dollar competitor in another and be like "and it's underpowered!".
Anyway, to your point- I doubt most people will buy the top end thing, but it is a real offering that does have a ton of power to it. If you're a professional who doesn't like input lag or whatever, you will probably consider such an expense.
If your point is that you can get a powerful surface for powerful cash, then that's a good point, and often not brought up- most competitors simply don't scale that high.
But I really feel you are not being fair to compare a nearly THREE THOUSAND DOLLAR current gen surface to a pretty ghetto laptop from four years ago.
1800 pounds converts to 2740 USD, according to Google.
An Alienware laptop that costs 2500 USD has:
Intel® Core i7-4710MQ processor, 4-cores, 6MB Cache, Overclocked up to 3.7GHz
Dual NVIDIA® GeForce® GTX 970M with 6GB GDDR5 each (NVIDIA SLI® Enabled)
16GB Dual Channel DDR3L at 1600MHz
1TB 7200RPM SATA 6Gb/s
18.4" WLED FHD (1920 X 1080)
2MP camera (with something about double speakers or some crap)
The big point here is: dual mobile nvidia graphics cards. That's absolutely monstrous- that kicks the shit out of onboard graphics.
Now, the unfair part is that this is an 18 inch laptop, compared to a much more portable surface. But the surface doesn't have comparable performance to a laptop, at the high end (and note you can spend even more on a laptop).
I semi-dispute that ios is spyware. Mostly, I'd like you to cite something- ios certainly wants to be "connected" (much like Windows 10), but, unlike Windows 10, it seems eminently possible to turn all that off and actually have it be off. I wouldn't be outright shocked if it was doing something sketchy- the direct comparison to Windows 10 is OS X, not ios- but still, would like to know.
Secondly, I don't see many folks talking about running linux on a surface, and I feel that this is a really neglected point. It really hadn't occurred to me that this was NOT locked down hardware, and that you could turn around and run free software on it. Though it won't help me, is there a guide on installation you could link to? Out of the set of "all the people in the world who would want to run Linux on their Surface", a surprisingly large percent are probably reading this thread, after all.
> A keylogger????
Yes!!!!
You need at least two steps to remove the keylogger....
First,,,, use these easy GUI steps to turn off the above board keylogging stuff::::
http://www.pcworld.com/article...
Second,,,, you will want to also get rid of the keylogger service (((( this continues to run and remotely log your data,,,, sending it to microsoft ))))
https://www.reddit.com/r/Windo...
Hope that helps,,,, quad punctuation man.
Windows is easy, Linux is hard. In Linux, sometimes you have to use a package manager. In Windows, all you need to do is, turn off one drive, log out of your microsoft account, ensure one drive isn't active, disable cortana, add one hundred entries to hosts, add them to windows firewall, add them to an external firewall because Windows ignores hosts and windows firewall, disable and remove seven services, remove several entries from a task scheduler, change several group policies, and spam over twenty wusa uninstall commands from the command line.
Simple.
That's not everything though. It may be close.
> Or, you can change a registry setting, disable a couple of services, and be done with it.
> http://winaero.com/blog/how-to...
Ah, I see you are playing one of my favorite forum games- you are trying to tell people how to disable the Microsoft spying!
You have missed TONS of thing, even with that link. I will list just one thing that the thing doesn't do: it doesn't turn off the "Customer Experience Improvement Program", which is normally disabled under task scheduler. This continues to leak tons of data if not disabled.
In practice, the steps to getting Windows 10 to a state that is assumed to be not talky, are massive and generally incomplete. I could list many many more things that the winaero link doesn't deal with, and if you just scroll down to the comments section you'll see people listing massive strings of commands that MIGHT make the OS do what they want.
If Linux had anything like this, you'd be laughing your ass off. Because it's Windows and you're some AC Windows fanfuck, you bury your head in the sand.
First, no desktop OS would try to betray its owner and user.
Then, no desktop OS would ignore the network stack it provides, bypassing its own host files.
Then, no desktop OS would ignore its own firewall, built to allow custom rules.
Now, no desktop OS can dictate to your router what it does with packets.
So literally everything that it can do from your machine to fuck you, it does. Your opinion is that, because you still have physical control over at least one intervening node, that you are safe. That is quite the stretch. Isn't this a batshit crazy standard to set? "Windows doesn't strangle me in the night, because it doesn't yet have arms... ok, now it has arms, but they aren't able to overpower my own arms... yet..."
So we all need application firewalls maintained daily by corporate IT to use Windows 10 safely. Duly noted.
It absolutely bypasses its own firewall and hosts. It can't bypass your router rules. Is Windows so good that you have keep it behind a firewall that stops hardcoded OS functions? That's a very expensive pet to maintain.
Remember to update your firewall with every windows update, based on guides provided by people who are trying to keep up with wireshark. Solid user experience, there.
I am glad the debate is currently between those claiming the number of stealth domains contacted is over a hundred, and those claiming it is merely dozens.
The sad fact is, we don't really understand ("we" meaning anyone not on the Microsoft team, and it is possible that no one person there has a handle on it) what the hell is going on.
Here is what we do know: with default settings, the amount of drama is hard to qualify. It absolutely pushes stuff to bing when you try to type calc.exe, cortana gets updated with contacts, calls made, etc., so probably apps ran intermittently get pushed to that, windows downloads tiles even if told not to, windows bypasses vpn when it can, unless stopped by an external firewall, windows ignores host file entries for certain connections.
Here's a bunch of known domains:
http://www.dslreports.com/foru...
And these are just the ones that Microsoft actually bothers to DNS before contacting. I'll hazard a guess that you'll eventually need blocks by IP numbers.
I don't know if Microsoft contacts a literal hundred domains. I think the fact that it's a giant hassle to make that number zero is scary as shit, and out of everyone who has released telemetry removal and spyware blocking tools, no one is certain that they got everything.
Clock is ticking, dreamchaser! You have yet to provide a single actionable method to turn off the spyware, besides claiming it was trivial to do so. Perhaps there was no room in the margin to write the proof?
Clock is ticking, Neo! You haven't shown how to disable telemetry yet, despite your claim, and you definitely haven't touched on all the other related stuffs, much of which I haven't brought up yet. You said it was easy, and what you claim does not turn off telemetry. Respond quickly if it's easy, or even possible!
Claiming that older versions of Windows leak data is quite the distraction tactic. Can you prove to me that crashes are reported to microsoft with no opt out? I very much doubt that.
I'll also point out that none of what you are saying is either official, nor the general opinion of people who are all running packet sniffers on external boxes- and even if entirely true, it's still a huge problem, and still represents data leaks with no opt out- you're just saying we've been deceived for close to a decade in some cases.
If what you say is true, Microsoft is vastly more spy-ey than we even thought, and we should be even more angry.
Parent claims that on accessing calc, with sniffer, he sees 100 domain hits.
You claim NO WAY, it's only five. And you discovered a way to work around that, involving a hosts file to block it.
First- this is still absolutely ludicrous, not just bad.
Second- given that this is a stream of encrypted data that contains your user action being beamed upstream, *WHY DO YOU ASSUME IT IS THE SAME BEHAVIOR IN ALL CASES*???
Simply put, it could be only five for you, and a hundred for him. It's an undocumented spy behavior, so it could be doing stuff different on tuesday than sunday. LITERALLY NO ONE KNOWS OUTSIDE OF MICROSOFT!!!
Pretend you were documenting an actual virus. Would you assume that because you saw a different network action when you inspected packets than someone else, that he's wrong? Or that the virus is just acting differently for its own reasons? Given that you can't look at the source, given that it's definitely spewing data, and given that there's no official claim over what the fuck is going on...
Why even assume he's wrong for a moment? He's reporting what he saw, and its in line with what others on the net see. No one even knows what this data fucking IS!
Bit torrent has no ads.
Also, oddly, Agents of SHIELD has no adds... on Netflix.
Lol YES, like glider for wow fishing, except for TV shows.
That is pretty interesting. Best would be Linux, though!
I wouldn't be too shocked if Blizzard ported to either PS4, Xbone, or both. They just announced a bunch of class changes and I honestly feel you could make a stronger case than ever for being able to play with a lesser input device like a gamepad- I don't think they are that dumbed down yet, but it seems that that's the direction they are at least headed.
Final Fantasy 14 is a solid MMO that is available on Windows, OS X, and PS4.
Interestingly, Overwatch is announced to be Windows only at the moment, and that game seems ripe for a console port.
This doesn't stop the telemetry.
That's disheartening.
I will say this- given that the EULA for Windows 10 definitely allows them to do this, even if you figure it out, there's not really any limit to what they start doing in the future, except that which they are legally bound against. Interesting work for sure, though.
Can't play WoW on a console. Can't play SWTOR on a console. Plenty of games I run have no console versions. Honestly, Linux has more games I care about than consoles do, most especially with emulation.
I get that you can run some great stuff on a dedicated console- I like my Wii U a lot- but it simply can't compare graphically or in many other ways to what a PC can do. And much of the great PC games are only made for Windows, sadly.
Well, I'll let someone else address whether it is crippled or not- I'm no expert. I will say that Apple Pencil is supposed to be a good pressure stylus- that's one of the selling points of the new ipad. And by selling point, of course I mean 100 dollar additional product- but still.
Others are bringing up that the newer Surface Pro 4 is more powerful. I'll point out that the topic is kind of about the Surface Book, which is more powerful than that (and also mostly a laptop).
The flipside here is that the Surface Pro 1 wasn't advertised as "hey, here's a new product, but it has input lag if you try to use it". That's like advertising 3D graphics on the NES and then pointing to the N64 and saying "see, they got'em now!".
Anyway, the current Surface line definitely scales up, with increased power at each level.
I am about 50% on the belief that there are still shills active on slashdot, but the real reason shills are rarer here than, say, certain tech subreddits, is because of the large amount of user accountability- shills tend to get downvoted and usually have to post AC, meaning that a typical user won't see the shills as easily as can be forced on the "democracy" types of sites where upvotes or likes or whatever will give the shill enough of a platform. There's also a lot of people to call out shills here, so it's lower reward. But I still see posts that seem designed to craft narrative instead of share opinion, share information, or argue, and those are at the very least candidates for shills.