"couldn't a corporation hold microsoft liable for damages incurred to an unpatched system"
If that where the case people would be sueing microsoft for worms, holes, vulnerabilites etc... Most worms that have been written where created due to security problems Microsoft knew about MONTHS if not Years before the problem ever surfaced.
Don't get me wrong I would love someone to try it, but I don't see that happening.
I don't see this as anything but GOOD news for the alt browser market.
I have already moved all my customers off IE and onto firefox and have received NO complaints as of yet, actually they are like wow I don't seem to get any more of those pop up ads, you're a great admin...;)
Microsoft continues to shoot them selves in the foot in the area of security. I thought they wanted to keep their market share, I guess the greed is getting to them.
America does business with nations and business who operation like its self.
America is in Iraq killing babies and innocent people (that is the truth, I have friends there and they told me about it).
If you don't think you're oppressed in the U.S think again, some countries are just more OPEN about it. But america is an oppressive govt just like others in the World.
You say we shouldn't do business with business who are "totalitarian" but we do business with the Saudis who own about 7% of the U.S and they are bigger tyrants to their people then Iraq was, but we LIKE THEM.
And we aren't gonna "become" addicted to an immoral revenue stream we ALREADY ARE!!
Unless it's some non profit org which is out to save the children or some shit
"we obey local governments and make money" is what every company does, however most say "Since I can't vioulate people in this country I will violate them in a 3rd world poor country and have their 10 year old children make my Product and pay them $.10 per day so I can sell my product in the U.S for $100+"
It's funny how "ethical" people think that they are, they are quick to jump all over google for following the laws in a country so they can operate sucessfully there.
Ask your self: When was the last time you:
1) Drove a Car (mianly SUV)
2) Shopped at Wall-Mart
3) Bought KFC
4) Supported the War in Iraq
5) Missed an opportunity to Bash Bush
6) etc... etc.. etc..
I mean this is the sick ass american thinking that makes the world think we are an arogant buch of bafoons (I'm an american by the way)
Since I am against the war in Iraq and the company I work for operates in American the nation who is killing innocent babies in Iraq then I should quit my job and STOP paying taxed because I'm supporting a govt which KILLES babies ie I HAVE NO ETHICS!!! EITHER do you then...... but since you're an american you don't have to think about that, lets focus on Google's injustice.. and the FREEDOM the Chinese people are missing out on because google's an unethical nation...
Actually you thought you where being funny, but in all reality you are correct (but you didn't read the atricle or just don't get what a reverse proxy server is).
The article is explaining how a site owner should create a reverse apache proxy server which means it needs to be open to the WORLD and everyone who wants to gain access to site abc.com (I know that exists but it's just an example here) needs to go through the proxy server.
Either he didn't read the article or he has NO idea what a reverse proxy server is.
The reason that people implement reverse proxy servers it to protect the systems "behind" them, you want EVERYONE to use your proxy server because it appears to be the "real" system as far as "internet users" are concerned.
I have implemeted reverse apache proxy servers to protect insecure IIS systems from many kinds of attacks.
Looks like most of these posts are gonna explain why a proxy server is a bad idea, bla bla bla because everyone will use it, well GOOD YOU WANT THEM TO USE it so they can get to your system.
"I run SuSE 9.1 Pro. for ths X86_64 at home and use Red Hat ES 3.0 & AIX 4.3.3 at work."
So I'm sorry how does that prove your point of SuSe taking over RedHat's position as #1 for business. I work for a LARGE Database Company (probably the largest in the world, and one of the largest software companies in the world, can you guess who I am) and we need to have multiple version of *nix on hand, we have IRIX, HPUX, SCO, Soalris, AIX, Dec etc.. etc... and for linux we run ONE OS and that's RHE.
The reason we run all these operating systems is so that we can support our end users, our customers obviously our customers are NOT choosing SuSe or else there would be a demand for it, RHE is about the ONLY linux distro we run.
"Like the linux quotes often say, I only reboot my XP box for patches and hardware updates. (which usually means about once a month for the hot fix updates)"
Not sure where you got that quote, I have NEVER had to reboot my system doing apt-get upgrade install on FC2, or using up2date using Redhat 9....
The ONLY update which had required me to reboot my system has been kernel upgrades which I update about every 6 months, but this isn't always a critical thing to do.
You know I don't remember the last time I got a Linux Virus, Spyware (oh what's that spyware removal program called for Linux, oh wait there isn't ONE!), had issues opening up ANY attachment etc.... even those ones that said I LOVE YOU, my linux box never had a problem with them... odd...
Since you REBOOT your laptops every month or so then you can't really make any statements about the availability of a Win2K box and it's abaility to stay up.
I know most of the time when I run windowsupdate I have to reboot my system, when I run apt-get update install on FedoraCore2 it never has told me to reboot yet....
"I think at one point I had the server up for ~180 days straight"
You say that like it's some accomplishment, well I guess it is for a WinBox, but in My World (*nix world) I would be very disapointed if my boxes where up any less that 180+ days!
"I very much hope that no one here points to this as more proof of needing to switch to Linux, even though I know it will come up."
This is MORE proof you need to switch to Linux!!;)
Truth is I don't need this article to tell me that *nix is more superior to Win2k, XP, NT etc... I have had *nix boxes running for more then 200 days on AVERAGE I have never seen a win2k box do that..
Oh I agree, I wasn't laughing at the fact that women get upset because we call them bitches, I was laughing because it was included in the How-to.. there are just some things that are common sence? NO?
"it's just as important that we get more guys into childminding and nursing as well as getting more women into IT"
And why exactly is it important? Last time I went to the hospital for a major problem was when I got hit by a car and I woke up in the emergency room with my pants off and a female nurses fingers up my a** (no kidding I guess that's how they test for internal bleeding), and I didnt really care if it was a man or woman...
Now I agree no one should be denied a job based on gener, but because they are choosing not to makes it a crisis?
"Telle Whitney, president of the Anita Borg Institute for Women and Technology in Palo Alto, Calif., who has been sending up alarms about the gender crisis for years"
I didn't either but it's good to know Telle Whitney is working to resolve this "CRISIS"???
Using the word "bitch" (and several other words) is derogatory to women, no matter whom the word is referring to. I wouldn't have bothered to include this except that it's apparently not as obvious as I thought, as I have recently heard Linux developers use "bitch" in a serious manner with apparent nonchalance"
Slashdot is putting in an extra . In the comment field it works then I preview it and a space gets put in between hull and the _ (that's an underscore).
Security and I quote "Security. ASP.NET runs on IIS, which has been compromised innumerable times, as evidenced by IT news reports every other week. It has become such a liability, in fact, that in spite of all the marketing dollars spent on it, many IT professionals refuse to have their networks exposed with an IIS Web server. PHP, however, works with Apache, which has a proven track record of speed, reliability, and hardened security. Check www.securityfocus.com for more information."
Thanks for playing... I understand you probably spent years learning IIS/ASP/Win2K and now you realize it sux so you spend your time bashing real operating systems and REAL programming languages so you don't feel like your years at ITT TECH where a waste of time...
I'm sorry but let's do some numbers because I am missing the boat:
MS Environment: MS XP 2002 - $270.99 x 4,200 PCs = $1,138,158 Norton Anti-Virus 2004 - $36.99 x 4,200 = $155,358 Norton Internet Security - $49.99 x 4,200 = $209,958 Support - $39 x 1 = $39.00 (I figured 2 support tickets web based)
Solaris 10: Retail price - $99 x 4,200 PCs = $415,800 AntiVirus - None Needed Internet Security - It's called ipf and it's free Support - FREE 90 Days
TOTALS: MS = $1,503,513 Solaris = $415,800
Now this doesn't take into account group discounts, I know volume discounts are available for all products but still we are looking at 1/3 the cost to implement Solaris.
This also doesn't take into account problems like CodeRed, Slapper, or Blaster. I know I was NEVER affected by any of these using Solaris or Linux and my NT team was hammered by calls and problems from inside the company.
This doesn't take into account uptime vs. downtime. I know from EXPERIENCE that Solaris Servers have a much higher availability then Windows Servers, how much money is lost due to downtime is something which has to be handled on a customer by customer basis. We had a billing environment which cost us $1,600 a minute every time it was down.
Please don't compare Apache/PHP/Solaris to IIS/ASP. It might not compe pre-setup out of the box like IIS/ASP, but:
a) it works
b) there isn't a new worm or virus for Apache/PHP/Solaris every week
c) Performance and scalability is better
d) You don't have to reboot Solaris every Week
e) I can't believe you compared Apache/PHP/Solaris to IIS/ASP, there is NO compareison. The ONLY way I have every been able to SECURE ISS/ASP is with an APACHE reverse PROXY SERVER!
Soalris 10: $99 (One-year subscription) - Commercial Use FREE - NON Commercial
Soalris 9: New Sun Computer Systems. The end user is authorized to use the latest version of the Solaris Operating System (or any other version still commercially offered by Sun) with the new Sun computer system and system board purchased from Sun or an authorized reseller."
And if it's for development, or educational use it's FREE as well. "
Slashdot Mirror
"couldn't a corporation hold microsoft liable for damages incurred to an unpatched system"
If that where the case people would be sueing microsoft for worms, holes, vulnerabilites etc... Most worms that have been written where created due to security problems Microsoft knew about MONTHS if not Years before the problem ever surfaced.
Don't get me wrong I would love someone to try it, but I don't see that happening.
I don't see this as anything but GOOD news for the alt browser market.
;)
I have already moved all my customers off IE and onto firefox and have received NO complaints as of yet, actually they are like wow I don't seem to get any more of those pop up ads, you're a great admin...
Microsoft continues to shoot them selves in the foot in the area of security. I thought they wanted to keep their market share, I guess the greed is getting to them.
Your an idiot
America does business with nations and business who operation like its self.
America is in Iraq killing babies and innocent people (that is the truth, I have friends there and they told me about it).
If you don't think you're oppressed in the U.S think again, some countries are just more OPEN about it. But america is an oppressive govt just like others in the World.
You say we shouldn't do business with business who are "totalitarian" but we do business with the Saudis who own about 7% of the U.S and they are bigger tyrants to their people then Iraq was, but we LIKE THEM.
And we aren't gonna "become" addicted to an immoral revenue stream we ALREADY ARE!!
Company Ethics = Make Money
Unless it's some non profit org which is out to save the children or some shit
"we obey local governments and make money" is what every company does, however most say "Since I can't vioulate people in this country I will violate them in a 3rd world poor country and have their 10 year old children make my Product and pay them $.10 per day so I can sell my product in the U.S for $100+"
It's funny how "ethical" people think that they are, they are quick to jump all over google for following the laws in a country so they can operate sucessfully there.
Ask your self: When was the last time you: 1) Drove a Car (mianly SUV)
2) Shopped at Wall-Mart
3) Bought KFC
4) Supported the War in Iraq
5) Missed an opportunity to Bash Bush
6) etc... etc.. etc..
I mean this is the sick ass american thinking that makes the world think we are an arogant buch of bafoons (I'm an american by the way)
Since I am against the war in Iraq and the company I work for operates in American the nation who is killing innocent babies in Iraq then I should quit my job and STOP paying taxed because I'm supporting a govt which KILLES babies ie I HAVE NO ETHICS!!! EITHER do you then...... but since you're an american you don't have to think about that, lets focus on Google's injustice.. and the FREEDOM the Chinese people are missing out on because google's an unethical nation...
Actually you thought you where being funny, but in all reality you are correct (but you didn't read the atricle or just don't get what a reverse proxy server is).
The article is explaining how a site owner should create a reverse apache proxy server which means it needs to be open to the WORLD and everyone who wants to gain access to site abc.com (I know that exists but it's just an example here) needs to go through the proxy server.
Either he didn't read the article or he has NO idea what a reverse proxy server is.
The reason that people implement reverse proxy servers it to protect the systems "behind" them, you want EVERYONE to use your proxy server because it appears to be the "real" system as far as "internet users" are concerned.
I have implemeted reverse apache proxy servers to protect insecure IIS systems from many kinds of attacks.
Looks like most of these posts are gonna explain why a proxy server is a bad idea, bla bla bla because everyone will use it, well GOOD YOU WANT THEM TO USE it so they can get to your system.
"I run SuSE 9.1 Pro. for ths X86_64 at home and use Red Hat ES 3.0 & AIX 4.3.3 at work."
So I'm sorry how does that prove your point of SuSe taking over RedHat's position as #1 for business. I work for a LARGE Database Company (probably the largest in the world, and one of the largest software companies in the world, can you guess who I am) and we need to have multiple version of *nix on hand, we have IRIX, HPUX, SCO, Soalris, AIX, Dec etc.. etc... and for linux we run ONE OS and that's RHE.
The reason we run all these operating systems is so that we can support our end users, our customers obviously our customers are NOT choosing SuSe or else there would be a demand for it, RHE is about the ONLY linux distro we run.
The subject says it all......
"Like the linux quotes often say, I only reboot my XP box for patches and hardware updates. (which usually means about once a month for the hot fix updates)"
Not sure where you got that quote, I have NEVER had to reboot my system doing apt-get upgrade install on FC2, or using up2date using Redhat 9....
The ONLY update which had required me to reboot my system has been kernel upgrades which I update about every 6 months, but this isn't always a critical thing to do.
" Normal if you're a dingbat that can't configure a proper Windows system -- which is about the easiest thing to do, in IT."
It that AFTER you:
1) Run Windows update, and reboot 5 times because most of the patches and service packs require a reboot
2) Download and Install Adaware
3) Install and Pay For Your Anti-Virus program
4) Disable Windows Messenger service
5) Download and Install Zone Alarm
6) Spend a week tweeking zone alarm
7) Download and Install FireFox
35 times does sound about right...
You know I don't remember the last time I got a Linux Virus, Spyware (oh what's that spyware removal program called for Linux, oh wait there isn't ONE!), had issues opening up ANY attachment etc.... even those ones that said I LOVE YOU, my linux box never had a problem with them... odd...
Since you REBOOT your laptops every month or so then you can't really make any statements about the availability of a Win2K box and it's abaility to stay up.
I know most of the time when I run windowsupdate I have to reboot my system, when I run apt-get update install on FedoraCore2 it never has told me to reboot yet....
"I think at one point I had the server up for ~180 days straight"
You say that like it's some accomplishment, well I guess it is for a WinBox, but in My World (*nix world) I would be very disapointed if my boxes where up any less that 180+ days!
"I very much hope that no one here points to this as more proof of needing to switch to Linux, even though I know it will come up."
;)
This is MORE proof you need to switch to Linux!!
Truth is I don't need this article to tell me that *nix is more superior to Win2k, XP, NT etc... I have had *nix boxes running for more then 200 days on AVERAGE I have never seen a win2k box do that..
Oh I agree, I wasn't laughing at the fact that women get upset because we call them bitches, I was laughing because it was included in the How-to.. there are just some things that are common sence? NO?
"in which profession hobby is it ok to do this?"...
At the strip club of course...
How bout you say something worth listening too?
Just a thought!
"it's just as important that we get more guys into childminding and nursing as well as getting more women into IT"
And why exactly is it important? Last time I went to the hospital for a major problem was when I got hit by a car and I woke up in the emergency room with my pants off and a female nurses fingers up my a** (no kidding I guess that's how they test for internal bleeding), and I didnt really care if it was a man or woman...
Now I agree no one should be denied a job based on gener, but because they are choosing not to makes it a crisis?
No, see I don't want to work with that girl, I want her to be in "Customer Service" so if things go sower I don't have to deal with her... :)
Well didn't you hear about the crisis??
"Telle Whitney, president of the Anita Borg Institute for Women and Technology in Palo Alto, Calif., who has been sending up alarms about the gender crisis for years"
I didn't either but it's good to know Telle Whitney is working to resolve this "CRISIS"???
Here is a quote from that HOW-TO:
3.3. Don't call people bitches
Using the word "bitch" (and several other words) is derogatory to women, no matter whom the word is referring to. I wouldn't have bothered to include this except that it's apparently not as obvious as I thought, as I have recently heard Linux developers use "bitch" in a serious manner with apparent nonchalance"
YA THINK??
I couldn't stop laughing when I read that...
Slashdot is putting in an extra . In the comment field it works then I preview it and a space gets put in between hull and the _ (that's an underscore).
u ll _asp.html
http://www.oracle.com/technology/pub/articles/h
I wouldn't expect a NT admin to figure that out, it involved troubleshooting...
Your right... I am full of it, don't take my input read it from ORACLE!
l _asp.html
:
http://www.oracle.com/technology/pub/articles/hul
Speed
PHP STRONG
ASP WEAK
Platform:
PHP STRONG
ASP WEAK
Platform Price:
PHP FEEE
ASP $$$
Security and I quote "Security. ASP.NET runs on IIS, which has been compromised innumerable times, as evidenced by IT news reports every other week. It has become such a liability, in fact, that in spite of all the marketing dollars spent on it, many IT professionals refuse to have their networks exposed with an IIS Web server. PHP, however, works with Apache, which has a proven track record of speed, reliability, and hardened security. Check www.securityfocus.com for more information."
Thanks for playing... I understand you probably spent years learning IIS/ASP/Win2K and now you realize it sux so you spend your time bashing real operating systems and REAL programming languages so you don't feel like your years at ITT TECH where a waste of time...
I'm sorry but let's do some numbers because I am missing the boat:
MS Environment:
MS XP 2002 - $270.99 x 4,200 PCs = $1,138,158
Norton Anti-Virus 2004 - $36.99 x 4,200 = $155,358
Norton Internet Security - $49.99 x 4,200 = $209,958
Support - $39 x 1 = $39.00 (I figured 2 support tickets web based)
Solaris 10:
Retail price - $99 x 4,200 PCs = $415,800
AntiVirus - None Needed
Internet Security - It's called ipf and it's free
Support - FREE 90 Days
TOTALS:
MS = $1,503,513
Solaris = $415,800
Now this doesn't take into account group discounts, I know volume discounts are available for all products but still we are looking at 1/3 the cost to implement Solaris.
This also doesn't take into account problems like CodeRed, Slapper, or Blaster. I know I was NEVER affected by any of these using Solaris or Linux and my NT team was hammered by calls and problems from inside the company.
This doesn't take into account uptime vs. downtime. I know from EXPERIENCE that Solaris Servers have a much higher availability then Windows Servers, how much money is lost due to downtime is something which has to be handled on a customer by customer basis. We had a billing environment which cost us $1,600 a minute every time it was down.
There is NO comparison here...
Please don't compare Apache/PHP/Solaris to IIS/ASP. It might not compe pre-setup out of the box like IIS/ASP, but:
a) it works
b) there isn't a new worm or virus for Apache/PHP/Solaris every week
c) Performance and scalability is better
d) You don't have to reboot Solaris every Week
e) I can't believe you compared Apache/PHP/Solaris to IIS/ASP, there is NO compareison. The ONLY way I have every been able to SECURE ISS/ASP is with an APACHE reverse PROXY SERVER!
What hefty price tag are you talking about??
Soalris 10:
$99 (One-year subscription) - Commercial Use
FREE - NON Commercial
Soalris 9: New Sun Computer Systems. The end user is authorized to use the latest version of the Solaris Operating System (or any other version still commercially offered by Sun) with the new Sun computer system and system board purchased from Sun or an authorized reseller."
And if it's for development, or educational use it's FREE as well.
"