You can think what you like, though you can't choose your facts, and the clearly false assertion "nobody takes the European Commission seriously" as a premis to an argument undermines the argument. Only *one* person has to take the EC seriously, even a member of the EC itself will do, and the rest is tosh.
Or we could back off the hyperbole and willy waving and have a rational discussion based on the shades of grey that actually exist in this world, though I agree that this is/.
FWIW, I'm a Steelie Neelie fan from what I know of her actions. Just wish she could be pointed in turn at a number of other areas in need of sanity and ignoring vested interests, such as (say) copyright or the Common Ag Policy, or whatever.
I am entirely in favour of conducting these tests and understanding the results to help build safer by design. If we knew everything we wouldn't need to test.
We can assume that the original design wasn't slapdash and negligent, so here's an important aspect that seemingly still has to be improved. I agree that the pothole --> house-burns-down scenario isn't good.
I don't know what exact flavour of Li battery the Volt uses, but the LiPO4 that I'm using at home is meant to be much more resistant to spontaneous fire.
But note my use of "unaware". The point of this story other than some general EV bashing is that the fire was unexpected; no one involved was aware that it might be a problem, clearly.
Take a novice driver and they may not look for balding tires or the rest because they don't know that there is a potentially lethal problem.
So this issue here is *novelty* of the problem, not lethality, I assert.
I use a couple of kWhs' worth of lead-acid batteries for off-grid storage and wouldn't want to short them or drop them or have them involved in a vehicle crash. Stored energy and corrosive/toxic compounds should be handled with appropriate respect...
As I've said elsewhere, it does indeed merit investigation and understanding. Definitely.
It doesn't warrant spittle flying and overlooking the various insidious and dangerous failure modes for current vehicles that we just happen to have internalised.
Your nose can't tell if your tank is punctured if you're not home or not in the garage, I suggest.
Are you claiming that there are no dangerous slow failure modes to conventional cars that an unaware driver could be hurt by, like balding tires, or brake fluid leakage or corroding wiring or whatever? Familiarity doesn't make them OK, and EV drivers will learn to look out for new failure modes if they prove common or dangerous.
So, before accusing *me* of being full of fail, maybe try (a) thinking carefully about my underlying point beyond your OMG!!!11!-status-quo-is-the-only-thing-that-could-possibly-work thinking, and (b) stop posting as AC.
Depends on what arbitrary thresholds I want to assign to 'huge' and 'expensive'. A full tank's worth is more than I'd want to keep in my bedroom, and continually refilling that tank with petrol/whatever is a lot more expensive than required for the same number of electrically-powered miles.
Just because we're familiar with something doesn't make it 'good' necessarily.
AFAIK, in the UK for example it is *not* abandoned legally if you've specifically put it out to be collected (and especially IMHO if it's still on my land). It might be abandoned in law if you fly-tipped it.
And if not abandoned, taking it without permission is theft.
It seems reasonable and responsible to avoid this being dragged into the AGW/CC debate one way or another if the scientists concerned are pretty sure that CC plays no significant part in this event, because lots of glacier/calving activity *has* been tied to CC, pro or anti.
So, it wouldn't be ignorance that would lead people to wonder. And thus forestalling inappropriate linkage is good.
A T1 is still working well for me: at most about 1 thread on my entire Web server system is doing any FP at all, and in places I switched to some light-weight integer fixed-point calcs instead. That now serves me well with the came code running on a soft-float (ie no FP h/w) ARMv5.
So, for applications where integer performance and threading is far more important than FP, maybe AMD (and Sun) made the right decision...
Which does not mean that *you* have to be driving to use the vehicles that are permitted.
Taxi or bus for example, with you as passenger, allows you to make use of the major roads without driving or owning a car.
I am in my mid-40s and have never owned a car though I have a licence and do very occasionally drive, here in the UK, in the US, and elsewhere. I have a family and what might pass for a successful career if I believed in that term as a freelancer.
I use public transport extensively.
So no "moot" in the GP's argument unless I'm missing something.
Thanks for your thoughtful reply. Yes I do think, and indeed was involved in discussions at the IFWP for example. But I got this one wrong, don't know why.
At least I use my real name and don't resort to childish personal attacks.
You *hate* him? Did he come and personally torture you or a family member or steal all your money and frame you for a rape?
If not, rather than expecting the world to turn on a dime to suit your irrationality, would it not be easier to either grow up or just not read such things? (Or learn to drop the hyperbole and stop wasting everyone else's time...)
Slashdot Mirror
You can think what you like, though you can't choose your facts, and the clearly false assertion "nobody takes the European Commission seriously" as a premis to an argument undermines the argument. Only *one* person has to take the EC seriously, even a member of the EC itself will do, and the rest is tosh.
Or we could back off the hyperbole and willy waving and have a rational discussion based on the shades of grey that actually exist in this world, though I agree that this is /.
FWIW, I'm a Steelie Neelie fan from what I know of her actions. Just wish she could be pointed in turn at a number of other areas in need of sanity and ignoring vested interests, such as (say) copyright or the Common Ag Policy, or whatever.
Rgds
Damon
"Nobody" is a strong word, and as it is certainly wrong, undermines the rest of your argument.
Rgds
Damon
I am entirely in favour of conducting these tests and understanding the results to help build safer by design. If we knew everything we wouldn't need to test.
We can assume that the original design wasn't slapdash and negligent, so here's an important aspect that seemingly still has to be improved. I agree that the pothole --> house-burns-down scenario isn't good.
I don't know what exact flavour of Li battery the Volt uses, but the LiPO4 that I'm using at home is meant to be much more resistant to spontaneous fire.
Rgds
Damon
But note my use of "unaware". The point of this story other than some general EV bashing is that the fire was unexpected; no one involved was aware that it might be a problem, clearly.
Take a novice driver and they may not look for balding tires or the rest because they don't know that there is a potentially lethal problem.
So this issue here is *novelty* of the problem, not lethality, I assert.
Rgds
Damon
I use a couple of kWhs' worth of lead-acid batteries for off-grid storage and wouldn't want to short them or drop them or have them involved in a vehicle crash. Stored energy and corrosive/toxic compounds should be handled with appropriate respect...
Rgds
Damon
As I've said elsewhere, it does indeed merit investigation and understanding. Definitely.
It doesn't warrant spittle flying and overlooking the various insidious and dangerous failure modes for current vehicles that we just happen to have internalised.
Your nose can't tell if your tank is punctured if you're not home or not in the garage, I suggest.
Rgds
Damon
Have a nice day.
Rgds
Damon
I agree entirely that it should be investigated and understood. It's definitely insidious.
it's just no sort of reason to say OMG!!!1111!-EVs-WILL-KILL-US_ALL!!!!eleventy-one!!
Rgds
Damon
My cousin's ex-eyebrows are interested in your views on the safety of gasoline and would like to subscribe to your newsletter.
Rgds
Damon
Are you claiming that there are no dangerous slow failure modes to conventional cars that an unaware driver could be hurt by, like balding tires, or brake fluid leakage or corroding wiring or whatever? Familiarity doesn't make them OK, and EV drivers will learn to look out for new failure modes if they prove common or dangerous.
So, before accusing *me* of being full of fail, maybe try (a) thinking carefully about my underlying point beyond your OMG!!!11!-status-quo-is-the-only-thing-that-could-possibly-work thinking, and (b) stop posting as AC.
Rgds
Damon
Depends on what arbitrary thresholds I want to assign to 'huge' and 'expensive'. A full tank's worth is more than I'd want to keep in my bedroom, and continually refilling that tank with petrol/whatever is a lot more expensive than required for the same number of electrically-powered miles.
Just because we're familiar with something doesn't make it 'good' necessarily.
Rgds
Damon
4 weeks later and entire tank of poisonous and flammable hydrocarbons could leak from a damaged car onto a garage floor or into a drain.
ICE cars are no angels: we've just gotten used to their failure modes.
Rgds
Damon
The tanks of volatile hydrocarbons in ICE cars and hybrids are huge, dangerous, and expensive.
In fact, there's a lot less stored energy in an EV than in a petrol/gas tank.
Rgds
Damon
AFAIK, in the UK for example it is *not* abandoned legally if you've specifically put it out to be collected (and especially IMHO if it's still on my land). It might be abandoned in law if you fly-tipped it.
And if not abandoned, taking it without permission is theft.
IANAL
Rgds
Damon
An interesting subtlety, thanks!
Rgds
Damon
And which side of the debate were you assuming that I'm on, if any?
Responsible science is just that, whether or not a particular fact easily fits with how one sees the world.
(This isn't a *whoosh*: this is really my core point.)
Rgds
Damon
It seems reasonable and responsible to avoid this being dragged into the AGW/CC debate one way or another if the scientists concerned are pretty sure that CC plays no significant part in this event, because lots of glacier/calving activity *has* been tied to CC, pro or anti.
So, it wouldn't be ignorance that would lead people to wonder. And thus forestalling inappropriate linkage is good.
Rgds
Damon
A T1 is still working well for me: at most about 1 thread on my entire Web server system is doing any FP at all, and in places I switched to some light-weight integer fixed-point calcs instead. That now serves me well with the came code running on a soft-float (ie no FP h/w) ARMv5.
So, for applications where integer performance and threading is far more important than FP, maybe AMD (and Sun) made the right decision...
Rgds
Damon
Yep, me too.
Except that obviously I'm such a failure that I post on /.
Rgds
Damon
Which does not mean that *you* have to be driving to use the vehicles that are permitted.
Taxi or bus for example, with you as passenger, allows you to make use of the major roads without driving or owning a car.
I am in my mid-40s and have never owned a car though I have a licence and do very occasionally drive, here in the UK, in the US, and elsewhere. I have a family and what might pass for a successful career if I believed in that term as a freelancer.
I use public transport extensively.
So no "moot" in the GP's argument unless I'm missing something.
Rgds
Damon
Thanks for your thoughtful reply. Yes I do think, and indeed was involved in discussions at the IFWP for example. But I got this one wrong, don't know why.
At least I use my real name and don't resort to childish personal attacks.
Damon
Quite right, got my wires crossed, and I should know better.
Rgds
Damon
Hmm, I don't think that the (non-US) governments whose countries use those gTLDs were really keen for them to be controlled from the US...
Rgds
Damon
You *hate* him? Did he come and personally torture you or a family member or steal all your money and frame you for a rape?
If not, rather than expecting the world to turn on a dime to suit your irrationality, would it not be easier to either grow up or just not read such things? (Or learn to drop the hyperbole and stop wasting everyone else's time...)
Rgds
Damon
I think it was sarcasm/satire rather than metaphor, ie the opposite of how you read it. That even may qualify it as irony.
Rgds
Damon