What is it with all the posts in here moaning about how bad this is, because of how there is no competition and other such...
People, please... are you living in a fantasy land? 3dfx hasn't been any serious competition for Nvidia since the GeForce. As much as you might like to think that the Linux market matters, it doesn't. Nvidia destroyed 3dfx in the Windows market, aka the one that matters.
Contrary to several posts in here, this is not a bad thing. Its the natural course of business.
- 3dfx dominates market
- Nvidia enters market
- 3dfx gets lazy
- Nvidia makes better products
- Nvidia dominates market
- Nvidia continues to make better products, and 3dfx crumbles against the competition.
Its not like Nvidia won because of a Patent war (hello Rambus!), because of backdoor shenagians, or whatever else thats bad. They won by simply flat out making a better product.
People who think this is some kind of disaster want a market where nothing changes. If you actually want innovation and competition, you had better expect that some players will loose at some point! If you want competition but without the potential to loose, you don't really want competition, you want to live in a fantasy world.
ATI is still there, as a better managed company then 3dfx with a better product, they stand a better chance in this market.
Now please... quit bitching about how this is the end of the world. Its not. After the 40th post moaning and whining about it, it really does start to get tiresome.
As people are so quick to point out, Distro X is not Linux.
Seeing as how it works on two distros, I think its fairly safe to say that the CPU does work fine.
Did the other distro makers contact them and ask for the Information? Its not hard to notice the P4 coming out, unless you've had your ears plugged, under a rock, in a cave, on Mars.
If say Caldera asked for the Info and was turned down by Intel (who then turned around and gave it to Redhat), then maybe there would be a story here.
There is nothing that says any of that happened. It seems more like the people who have updated are just more on the ball.
I bet they did too. They only have to go to one place to check Windows compatability: MS.
They may have checked to see if the kernel itself works on a P4, I don't know. (obviously it does, because RH and Turbolinux (I think) will work correctly now.)
I don't blame them for not running around to every distro maker and checking up on them before releasing the chip. Thats not Intels job, and its rediculous to ask them to babysit the distro makers.
If the same problem cropped up on a new AMD cpu, do you think the article would be blaming AMD for it?
I find it interesting how the article sounds like its blaming Intel for the problem of Linux distros not being properly updated yet to support the P4. I guess that means its Intel's job to run around all over the world making sure that these things are updated before they dare to release a new cpu.
Cost of Opera to make old laptop seem speedy: $0 (or $39 in ad free version, which I will probably pay)
Thats about all there is to it for me. Opera is a lot cheaper then the new hardware it would take to make Mozilla work at something resembling a usable speed.
I also posted the protocol spec URL earlier on in the thread (and here it is again http://www.myopera.com/people/howcome/2000/opera5/ acp.html )used for the banners.
There has been extensive discussion of this in the Opera newsgroups, and I think we may finally have most of it pinned down.
Bottom line: Taco assumed without actually checking at all.
Of course, lets ignore the banner at the top of slashdot, which is from doubleclick today, which is far better at violating my privacy then Opera is. But I guess hypocracy and stories that aren't full of FUD and Bullshit are just the norm around here, eh?
The first time it runs to get an ad, it talks to the server and asks for a user id (its there in the protocol). This is the only major red flag we found in the system.
However they have flat out told us in the newsgroup that the user id is used only to track which install of Opera has seen which ads, and no other information is logged or linked to it, period.
So long as they aren't lying, I don't see a problem.
He's really just making shit up. I can almost guarantee that he hasn't even used Opera 5, or looked at the ad protocol (which I posted in an earlier comment), or even watched it with a packet sniffer.
He's assuming adware = spyware, and making general assumptions from there.
He also wants to stick with Mozilla, which is a bloated PoS thats about as fast as as the flow of a frozen river. But thats ok.
The bottom line here is that he's saying things as if they're true without having a fucking clue of what he's talking about. That goes beyond what can reasonably be tolerated into something thats rediculous. And the comments here should correct things that are so obviously wrong.
(yes, I know, its my second comment on this, but now I'm annoyed)
I re-read what you posted Taco... get a fucking clue. Amazing how you can tell us so much about what it does to invade your privacy without ever having actually used it.
Do me a favor would you? Read the protocol spec, watch it with a sniffer, and then tell me about how horrible it is. At least then you'll have an opinion more qualified then a fucking hack pretending to be a journalist.
Mozilla is a joke disguised as a browser. I've never used a program so slow in my entire life (except maybe older versions of Mozilla). Calling the interface unresponsive is like calling a Nuclear bomb somewhat powerful.
Mozilla is all fine and dandy provided you have the serious hardware required to run it. Try running it on something like a Pentium 200. Its painful. At best.
There has been a lot of talk in the Opera newsgroups (in which I'm a regular) about the adware version, without much real consenus on it. We do have some details on the adware implementation itself though.
Here is the protocol they are using.
We have information from Tollef (who works at Opera) about what information is logged by the ad server, apparently all it tracks is which ads have been shown to which client, and whatever personal information (which is totally optional) was put in by the user. It doesn't log IP addresses, email addresses, or anything of that nature.
I haven't had a chance to download the browser yet, since it came out at 1am in my time zone. I do know that I should be able to use it without getting a system upgrade, which is more then I can say for shit like Mozilla.
Yeah... thats really what I want to do, carry a bunch of cds on the road with me just in case mp3.com decides it suddenly has to check if I own them or not.
If I can stick the cd in to make them happy that I own it, I can also simply stick it in to listen to it, and not pay them jack shit.
From my experiences with Netscape/Mozilla in the Windows world, the results (aka Netscape 6 being huge and getting bigger and bigger and bigger) are consistant with what it does in Windows. After an hour of browsing, I can run a report on a 300k record database in Access 2000, chart something from a remote odbc source in Excel 2000, and be typing this very message in Opera (or IE5, I have a lot of ram leeway right now), and still use less ram then Netscape 6 takes to show the slashdot frontpage (and doing nothing else).
It really is quite pathetic, Netscape must be in bed with a Ram maker.
I'm nothing even remotely resembling a hardcore anime fan, but I have friends who are. Every now and then I watch some.
I really prefer dubbed. I don't speak japanese, I have no desire to learn how to speak japanese, and I don't enjoy trying to read the entire movie while at the same time watching whats going on.
Thats really about all there is to it for me, having a language track in another language doesn't do anything for me except get annoying. Trying to read the entire text of the movie is also annoying. Get rid of the two of them at once by dubbing it into english, and I'm happy.
The P4 is a new core actually, its the first new core since the PPro. Thats the reason why its slower right now really, Intel always has this problem with its new cores at first. The Pentium was slower at first, and so was the PPro.
Much like those, give the P4 some time. As the clockrates go up and SSE2 enabled software comes out, it will start to look better.
Actually, The Register did some SSE2 enabled benchmarks, and the P4 was rather impressive in them.
Intel has a good public perception, but Rambus has a hideous one. I would think that until the SDRAM boards come out for the P4, the fact that it requires dual channel Rambus is going to hurt it somewhat.
(thats another thing that I find interesting, that they need to use a *dual* channel 800mhz rambus setup to be able to compete witha single channel sdram setup. Thats pathetic.)
Slashdot Mirror
S3 bought Diamond actually, and then changed their name and got out of the graphics business.
There is a post near the beginning of this topic about it.
What is it with all the posts in here moaning about how bad this is, because of how there is no competition and other such...
People, please... are you living in a fantasy land? 3dfx hasn't been any serious competition for Nvidia since the GeForce. As much as you might like to think that the Linux market matters, it doesn't. Nvidia destroyed 3dfx in the Windows market, aka the one that matters.
Contrary to several posts in here, this is not a bad thing. Its the natural course of business.
- 3dfx dominates market
- Nvidia enters market
- 3dfx gets lazy
- Nvidia makes better products
- Nvidia dominates market
- Nvidia continues to make better products, and 3dfx crumbles against the competition.
Its not like Nvidia won because of a Patent war (hello Rambus!), because of backdoor shenagians, or whatever else thats bad. They won by simply flat out making a better product.
People who think this is some kind of disaster want a market where nothing changes. If you actually want innovation and competition, you had better expect that some players will loose at some point! If you want competition but without the potential to loose, you don't really want competition, you want to live in a fantasy world.
ATI is still there, as a better managed company then 3dfx with a better product, they stand a better chance in this market.
Now please... quit bitching about how this is the end of the world. Its not. After the 40th post moaning and whining about it, it really does start to get tiresome.
As people are so quick to point out, Distro X is not Linux.
Seeing as how it works on two distros, I think its fairly safe to say that the CPU does work fine.
Did the other distro makers contact them and ask for the Information? Its not hard to notice the P4 coming out, unless you've had your ears plugged, under a rock, in a cave, on Mars.
If say Caldera asked for the Info and was turned down by Intel (who then turned around and gave it to Redhat), then maybe there would be a story here.
There is nothing that says any of that happened. It seems more like the people who have updated are just more on the ball.
I bet they did too. They only have to go to one place to check Windows compatability: MS.
They may have checked to see if the kernel itself works on a P4, I don't know. (obviously it does, because RH and Turbolinux (I think) will work correctly now.)
I don't blame them for not running around to every distro maker and checking up on them before releasing the chip. Thats not Intels job, and its rediculous to ask them to babysit the distro makers.
If the same problem cropped up on a new AMD cpu, do you think the article would be blaming AMD for it?
Somehow, I doubt it.
I find it interesting how the article sounds like its blaming Intel for the problem of Linux distros not being properly updated yet to support the P4. I guess that means its Intel's job to run around all over the world making sure that these things are updated before they dare to release a new cpu.
Yeesh.
Gee...
"until you make a linux version, I'll pirate all your stuff!"
Thats certainly going to convince people. Good show!
</sarcasm>
Oh well they are a lot better, Mozilla now is way faster then Mozilla back then.
Which just goes to show you how insanely slow it was back then, because its still slower then hell.
Its also a memory pig, but you know...
I'm using a laptop.
Multiply every price by 2-3x.
I can't afford that.
Cost of new laptop: $2000+
Cost of Opera to make old laptop seem speedy: $0 (or $39 in ad free version, which I will probably pay)
Thats about all there is to it for me. Opera is a lot cheaper then the new hardware it would take to make Mozilla work at something resembling a usable speed.
Compaired to Netscape 4, hehehe.
Compaired to something like Opera, both Netscape and Mozilla are about as fast as molasses. Especially on something like a Pentium 100 w/32MB ram.
Well it was addressed to Taco and the article itself.
But the assumption is bad, Opera put in a considerable amount of effort to try and make it not spyware.
I think they did a good job too.
Yeah, no contest indeed. Nothing is slower then Mozilla. Watching Mozilla do anything always reminds me of watching the water flow of a Frozen River.
Yeppers.
/ acp.html )used for the banners.
I also posted the protocol spec URL earlier on in the thread (and here it is again http://www.myopera.com/people/howcome/2000/opera5
There has been extensive discussion of this in the Opera newsgroups, and I think we may finally have most of it pinned down.
Bottom line: Taco assumed without actually checking at all.
Of course, lets ignore the banner at the top of slashdot, which is from doubleclick today, which is far better at violating my privacy then Opera is. But I guess hypocracy and stories that aren't full of FUD and Bullshit are just the norm around here, eh?
The first time it runs to get an ad, it talks to the server and asks for a user id (its there in the protocol). This is the only major red flag we found in the system.
However they have flat out told us in the newsgroup that the user id is used only to track which install of Opera has seen which ads, and no other information is logged or linked to it, period.
So long as they aren't lying, I don't see a problem.
He's really just making shit up. I can almost guarantee that he hasn't even used Opera 5, or looked at the ad protocol (which I posted in an earlier comment), or even watched it with a packet sniffer.
He's assuming adware = spyware, and making general assumptions from there.
He also wants to stick with Mozilla, which is a bloated PoS thats about as fast as as the flow of a frozen river. But thats ok.
The bottom line here is that he's saying things as if they're true without having a fucking clue of what he's talking about. That goes beyond what can reasonably be tolerated into something thats rediculous. And the comments here should correct things that are so obviously wrong.
(yes, I know, its my second comment on this, but now I'm annoyed)
I re-read what you posted Taco... get a fucking clue. Amazing how you can tell us so much about what it does to invade your privacy without ever having actually used it.
Do me a favor would you? Read the protocol spec, watch it with a sniffer, and then tell me about how horrible it is. At least then you'll have an opinion more qualified then a fucking hack pretending to be a journalist.
Not really. That seems to be one of the problems with the protocol. I could point it somewhere else without a lot of trouble.
You read my mind Mr. Anonymous.
Mozilla is a joke disguised as a browser. I've never used a program so slow in my entire life (except maybe older versions of Mozilla). Calling the interface unresponsive is like calling a Nuclear bomb somewhat powerful.
Mozilla is all fine and dandy provided you have the serious hardware required to run it. Try running it on something like a Pentium 200. Its painful. At best. There has been a lot of talk in the Opera newsgroups (in which I'm a regular) about the adware version, without much real consenus on it. We do have some details on the adware implementation itself though. Here is the protocol they are using. We have information from Tollef (who works at Opera) about what information is logged by the ad server, apparently all it tracks is which ads have been shown to which client, and whatever personal information (which is totally optional) was put in by the user. It doesn't log IP addresses, email addresses, or anything of that nature. I haven't had a chance to download the browser yet, since it came out at 1am in my time zone. I do know that I should be able to use it without getting a system upgrade, which is more then I can say for shit like Mozilla.
Yeah... thats really what I want to do, carry a bunch of cds on the road with me just in case mp3.com decides it suddenly has to check if I own them or not.
If I can stick the cd in to make them happy that I own it, I can also simply stick it in to listen to it, and not pay them jack shit.
From my experiences with Netscape/Mozilla in the Windows world, the results (aka Netscape 6 being huge and getting bigger and bigger and bigger) are consistant with what it does in Windows. After an hour of browsing, I can run a report on a 300k record database in Access 2000, chart something from a remote odbc source in Excel 2000, and be typing this very message in Opera (or IE5, I have a lot of ram leeway right now), and still use less ram then Netscape 6 takes to show the slashdot frontpage (and doing nothing else).
It really is quite pathetic, Netscape must be in bed with a Ram maker.
They seem to prefer subs too, judging by what they have in their video libraries.
As another poster in this thread pointed out, one of the advantages of DVD is that you can have it both ways on the same disc, then we're all happy.
:-)
I'm nothing even remotely resembling a hardcore anime fan, but I have friends who are. Every now and then I watch some.
I really prefer dubbed. I don't speak japanese, I have no desire to learn how to speak japanese, and I don't enjoy trying to read the entire movie while at the same time watching whats going on.
Thats really about all there is to it for me, having a language track in another language doesn't do anything for me except get annoying. Trying to read the entire text of the movie is also annoying. Get rid of the two of them at once by dubbing it into english, and I'm happy.
Of course, to each their own.
The P4 is a new core actually, its the first new core since the PPro. Thats the reason why its slower right now really, Intel always has this problem with its new cores at first. The Pentium was slower at first, and so was the PPro.
Much like those, give the P4 some time. As the clockrates go up and SSE2 enabled software comes out, it will start to look better.
Actually, The Register did some SSE2 enabled benchmarks, and the P4 was rather impressive in them.
http://www.theregister.co.uk/c ont ent/3/14922.html
Intel has a good public perception, but Rambus has a hideous one. I would think that until the SDRAM boards come out for the P4, the fact that it requires dual channel Rambus is going to hurt it somewhat.
(thats another thing that I find interesting, that they need to use a *dual* channel 800mhz rambus setup to be able to compete witha single channel sdram setup. Thats pathetic.)
I guess you guys don't get the insightful comment for that. Even by sunday you should have realized that the Election would be going on for months.
Hell, up here in Canada we're not going to be having ours for at least another week, but it'll be figured out long before yours.