If bacteria can survive that long, and I'm sure longer, this means there is a good chance that there may be life on planets with ice in our solar system. All we have to do is go find it!
Why would the bad guys need mirrors? They just invented a puke ray.
I realize that being anti government, especially anti Bush is pretty hip-cool right now, but...
I don't think you could call these guys "bad" when they just spent an ass-load of time and money to invent a weapon that makes you puke when they could have just said "screw 'em", saved an ass-load of money and simply shot whoever the puke-ray was intended for with a REAL gun. We already invented the 9mm. Why waste the time?
I think these "Bad Guys", as you like to call them, just did something incredibly humane and you should find a way to give credit where it is due rather than bashing every single chance you get.
I remember the manual and floppy that came with my Apple//c. The floppy was an addition to the manual and included little games to help you learn the system. I remember one where little apples, some hollow, some filled, that were rolling down a conveyor belt. You had to hit the right apple key (open or closed apple) depending on the apple that was rolling down the belt. I believe a bunny gave you the gave you tips (ala Clippy). I don't think I remember the manual being all that serious either. That type of creative instruction led me to actually RTFM and get to know the basics of my computer.
HOW F*CKING HARD is it to make a secure voting machine?!? The thing counts and keeps track of votes! I bet i could write a secure voting machine that could handle state and federal elections securely in a couple of days in any language from assembly to bash!
How hard is it to make a secure voting machine? Exactly as hard as it is to make a secure OS and application, along with support files, data and libraries, that will be installed on a machine where it will be located in a public location where anyone can get private, direct access to it. How hard do you THINK it is?
If Microsoft, with billions on top of billions spent on security can not make a machine virus free, what makes you think Diebold can?
But, since we are talking about viruses here, it should be pretty easy to protect these machines from viruses. First, don't connect them to the Internet. Next, don't give voters access to a keyboard, mouse or drive bays. Now, with no keyboard, mouse, network or drive access, how would YOU infect one of these machines with a virus? The Force?
It most do a trace route/phone home or somthing to actually get a useful address
As opposed to the guy at 127.0.0.1! I hacked into his machine once, but that bastard had some sort of active defense daemon running that wiped my drive at the same time I was trying to wipe his!
Fortunately, I was able to see the porno pics of his wife before I was hit. Man! That bitch was FUGLY!
The Cell was developed by Sony, IBM and Toshiba. I don't know if IBM or Toshiba are selling any yet, but it doesn't make sense to sue only Sony. Well, unless this is a bullshit lawsuit and this company is hoping for an extremely fat settlement check.
Of course, let's say there was no disappearing wife, just my deviation to the "Foxy Trot" -- next weekend my friendly neighborhood officer calls with a financial offer I can't refuse.
What's stopping this officer from doing this today? For that matter, what about "Bunny" at "Foxy Trot"?
In either case, you record the conversation, call a lawyer, confess to your wife and let her have the house in the divorce, go the press, sue the city, and live happily single with your new millions!
There is a difference between catching criminals and creating a database of the travel patterns of presumably innocent people.
My initial reaction was "that sounds neat" but by the time I got through even just the summary, it was obvious that creating a database of everyone's travel patterns is not the right way to run the system. Perhaps 10 years hence, you take a different route to work for whatever reason, later that night you get a knock on your door and then: "Sorry to bother you Mr. Jones but we see you deviated from your usual route. Care to explain?" 10 years after that, you have to file travel plans. "Papers please." Yeah, call me a nutter.
OK, nutter, have it your way.
There is also a difference between collecting data and mining it. Collecting data is easy. Extracting anything useful from it is hard. For starters, no one is going to give a shit how you get to work until it becomes relevant. Here's an example: Lets say your wife goes missing. We know she made a call from home at 9:00am to her mother and left a crying message on your mom-in-law's machine on the day she went missing. Oh, and you were three hours late for work that day. The neighbors report yelling coming from the house the night before. You have just increased the life insurance policy for your wife. These would make you a prime suspect, possibly enough to convict you. However, if they check the data, they find that you entered the toll road at 8:30am the day your wife went missing. You changed to the freeway 45 minutes from your home at 9:25am. You are seen from your path and when you exited the freeway near the strip club that offers breakfast lapdances. You are seen exiting the freeway near your office at at 11:45am.
So while you were guilty of skipping half a day at work and hitting the strip club probably without your wife's knowledge, these things are not illegal and this system saved your ass by supporting your alibi.
Out of curiousity have you ever even used Solaris (http://www.infiltrated.net/sunDesk.jpg) I have do and have for the past 8+ years. Did it occur that maybe Sun is trying to woo Linux users over.
I used Solaris for about 8 minutes. It took me that long to figure out that pressing the TAB key at the CLI did not complete my command. The next 15 minutes was spent reinstalling Linux.
I was going to see if there is some way to get command line completion enabled, but it didn't seem worth it once I saw that I was unable to utilize my history by pressing the UP arrow. Come on! Even DOS had Doskey! Oh, and the DOS style 80 column display...
Sorry, BASh has spoiled me. Maybe Solaris is the greatest OS on earth, but out of the box... it kinda sucked.
It's the slipper slope that comes with something like this in the hands of the government.
Ah yes, the slippery slope argument. Hell, if you are going to use it, USE IT! Why not block the police use of patrol cars, guns, computers, substations since they can be abused. Hell, go all out! Why should the mayor have his own personal army to suppress the public? Maybe we should block the formation of a police force entirely since it is very possible for the mayor to abuse the power to gain even MORE power.
Wait. The people elect the mayor. The people could abuse the power of the polling station for ill gotten gains....
I thought that the Democrats were in charge of both houses?
Sorry to bring it up, but for everyone that claimed that it was Bush and Rove that was trampling on all our rights, it really isn't fair unless you say the same about Pelosi and Reid.
Remember that unlike Soviet Russia or a dictatorship, in the US, "political officers" are elected directly or appointed by someone elected A political apointee is elected? wellt hats news to me, when did they redefine the word apointee. You answer is in bold
I really should have added to my text to include the fact that the constitution only applies to what the government can do to the people. The constitution is not what makes it a bad decision to let scientists make decisions, it's the accountability involved in a publicly elected official that makes it the right person to make the hopefully informed decision.
Of course your statement is quite correct and it was entirely my fault for being unclear.
I was going to comment, but then I realized I better keep my mouth shut since my history credentials includes getting B's in college history and having a freaky relationship with a women's history major. (Better to keep my mouth shut and thought a fool than to open it and remove all doubt.)
This reminds me of Soviet Russia or a dictatorship. Having a political "officer" involved in every decision.
Your point is well taken, but replace "political officer" with "scientist" and see if it sounds any better. Remember that unlike Soviet Russia or a dictatorship, in the US, "political officers" are elected directly or appointed by someone elected. Elected officials are beholden to the electorate and the Constitution. Scientists are not elected and have taken no oath to the Constitution. So while I don't trust politicians either, at least I can hold them to the Constitution or vote them out of office. I have no such power over scientists.
scientists: car exhaust and industrial pollutants have caused increased rates of cancer in the Los Angelos area. white house edit: car exhaust and industrial pollutants have not caused increased rates of cancer in the LA area. do you think they'll abuse this?
I think you are missing the point. The point is that the Feds create Federal Regulations, based on scientific findings, not the scientists. Using your example, the logical solution to the pollutant problem would be to ban automobiles. Should scientists be able to make into law? Of course not. It's the legislature's job to make legislation based on the will of the people. It's the scientists job to make scientific discoveries. Scientists take no oath to the Constitution and are not bound by it.
You make an excellent point. All the enemy needs to do is first fire a barrage of Jiffy Pop popcorn. when the laser hits it, the corn pops and rains down on the target. This should be sufficient in preventing the laser from knocking out the REAL rounds, which are fired second.
Dell makes it simpler to pick a Linux distro than a Windows version. Ahhh! NOW I get what you were saying. It sounded as if you were saying that it is easier to pick Linux that it is to pick a Linux version. I'm up to speed. You make an excellent point! The Dell customers that request a Linux distro are not overwhelmed by the "download", post purchase user.
Now, if we can just get the option listed next to the Window's versions, we'll be in good shape.
Where's the part about faking a terrorist attack to invade Iraq? Nowhere. As I stated in my response to the reply to my first post here I'm claiming nothing of the sort. I quoted it once, now I'll quote it again since you chose to ignore it:
Pay attention to the parts where they talk about their plan to invade Iraq to "ensure future US economic world domination in the coming century", their understanding that the American people wouldn't buy their bullshit, so they would need to hope for an attack on the US on the level of Pearl Harbor which they could then misuse as an excuse to invade Iraq. These are YOUR words. Words you've denied saying, twice now, all the while calling others liars. Well, here is the proof that we are honest and you are the one lying when you deny saying it.
Let's see what other lie you ignored from my original post:
"Rebuilding America's Defenses" signed by Rumsfeld, Cheney, Wolfowitz, Jeb Bush, George Bush Senior... If you look at page 90 of the document, you'll see that no Bush signed it. PROOF, not just an accusation, that you lied, and then have the 12 lb balls to accuse other of lying. THIS is what I mean by projecting. Every time someone presents an argument you can't counter, you call it a lie, and then make up your own lies trying to disprove it.
Your lies have been proven by your own posts, and YOUR words have been used against you. Before you deny saying these things again, please read your own posts. I've only used one post as that is all I have needed, and the link is posted above for your convenience
How do you think most individuals get their OS? It comes pre-installed on their computer. Dell makes it simpler to pick a Linux distro than a Windows version. I went Dell.com and started selecting a PC. I started with an Desktop-Home and Office. Next I selected the Inspiron series. I then selected the "Built for you" option. The next option selected was Inspiron 531s, Everyday Productivity, I clicked on "build yours". The next two options were service plan and processor. I don't think it matters what you select here. Finally, it comes to the OS. Here are my options:
Genuine Windows Vista(TM) Home Basic [subtract $30]
Genuine Windows Vista(TM) Home Basic + Belkin Easy Transfer Cable [add $9]
Genuine Windows Vista(TM) Home Premium [Included in Price] Dell Recommended! Enhance your multimedia experience.
Genuine Windows Vista(TM) Ultimate [add $169 or $5/month1] I don't see Ubuntu listed anywhere. I thought it was simpler to get Ubuntu than Windows? Where is the option? I looked under small business desktop, servers, rack systems. It wasn't until I typed "ubuntu" in the search field before I found the Inspiron Desktop 530 N, which came with Ubuntu as the option. However, if I selected the 530 from the front page, Ubuntu was not an option.
So it appears that Linux is available on Dell systems, but you have to actively seek it out. No only is it not listed as a default option, but it's not listed up there at all unless you manually search for it. This is simpler?
How does somebody select a laundry detergent? There's lots of those, each slightly different, but very few people feel unable to wash clothes because they can't figure out which detergent is best. They pick one off the shelf who's packaging claims to meet their needs best for the price. If a brand was kept off the shelf and the customer had to ask the grocer to get it out of the back probably wouldn't sell too well either. Right now, Linux is not on the shelf. You specifically ask the Grocer to go get it for you.
I think this is a very small issue, at most, in the success of Linux. Maybe. But the situation won't change until Linux is presented as an option next to Windows.
And, according to Microsoft, "Vista Home" does not, contrary to your list, identify a single version, the versions are "Vista Home Basic" and "Vista Home Premium", and you missed "Vista Business". Actually, the Wikipedia page you link to also points that out, so your description of what you missed is wrong even based on the source you used. You also missed, for Windows XP, again from the page you cite, Windows XP Starter, Windows XP Home Edition N, Windows XP Professional Edition N, Windows XP Professional Edition x64, Windows XP Tablet PC Edition, and, oddly enough, what was probably the most popular bundled version of XP in the last year or so before Vista, Windows XP Media Center Edition.
Point well taken. However, I'm sure there are many MS employed marketers and vendors that can list every version from memory. But with Linux, as someone else here pointed out, in the time it would take someone to memorize every Linux distro, several new ones would appear because anyone can create a distro, and many do.
For comparison purposes, it may be fairer to refer to Linux as distor's, and not so much Linux. For example, we could compare the versions of Ubuntu, (KUbuntu, Ubuntu 64-bit, Ubuntu Server, Gobuntu and so on) to Windows rather than the Linux versions as a whole. Same could go with Gentoo, Sabayon, Redhat and the rest. Then we are not looking at Windows vs. Linux, but Vista vs Sabayon, XP vs KUbuntu, or Server2k3 vs. CentOS, and so on.
Did you even read the page you cited to claim that you only missed two Vista versions and the Server 2k3 versions?
Ouch, you got me there. However, I did say:
Of course, I skipped the embedded. Also, many of those are Enterprise editions of 2003 that you probably won't find people confusing them for a desktop OS (well, they might until the see the price tag!). Do you even read the posts you reply to?:-) Looks like it happened to both of us.
I'm pretty to sure that, e.g., Fry's sells both Linux pre-installed systems and retail-box versions of some of the commercial Linux distros. Dell sells systems with Linux pre-installed.
What does Fry's sell more of, name brand machines or custom built? And last time I was in Fry's shopping for a machine for my step-father's business, I couldn't even get XP Pro on the machine we wanted. I was limited to XP Media Center, period. We purchased a comparable machine from elsewhere for about the same price. As for Dell. They've done this for how long? A week? A month? What is the default option? Is Linux available on all PC's or just a few "business" models?
Since no distribution exists that "comes as an option to be preinstalled on computers from the majority of manufacturers", and its clear that none will until the demand for Linux from consumers is great enough to force that option, you seem to be saying that to become popular, Linux must first be popular. (I disagree that Linux users have to stick to one distro for this to be the case; as long as there is application compatibility across distros, it wouldn't matter if each hardware manufacturer offered a different distro.) You have a point, but we are talking about a chicken and egg thing here. MFG's are not going to switch to installing Linux by default because few will buy them. Few people will try Linux when their system comes preinstalled with Windows. However, if the MFG's included an Ubuntu Live-DVD in the box or in the listed Ubuntu as "Ubuntu Linux -$50" (as in minus 50 bucks) in the OS menu, more people might consider trying it.
But there is a kernel of truth there in that Linux won't acheive desktop competitiveness (in the market sense rather than the quality sense), until lots of people get exposed to Linux other than by choosing to buy it individually, so that they don't have to take the risk of what they perceive as "the unknown". Right On!
Which means that the only way Linux will compete is the same way MS got its desktop dominance back in the days of DOS: providing enterprises a reason to standardize on it so that its what people need to use for work. You have a point, but the opposite is also true. There are many IT managers (not techs, but managers) who hear Windows Server, see an interface that is familiar to them and think, "I run that at home. I already know something about that. I know a LOT more about Windows than I do CentOS."
While I would agree that these are statements showing that it was justified (at least partly) on the basis of building a democratic government in Iraq, does it precede the justification for stopping Saddam's weapons programs? The poster (imkonen) is arguing that someone is stating (post-Saddam) that [neocons] "insist that the single most important reason we invaded Iraq was to establish Democracy". My question was really (in that context) to that point.
You are correct. The primary reason to go into Iraq was to stop the various weapons programs. While the intelligence this was based on was not as flawed as we are led to believe, it was flawed nonetheless. There were chemical and bio weapons and programs in Iraq, just not the stockpiles or gangbuster programs we were led to believe.
Either way, that was then, this is now. We have to make the best of the situation over there. We can not leave it worse that we found it. We have the opportunity to something wonderful over there or something disastrous. Doing the right thing will time time, effort, blood and money, but I feel it will be worth it in the long run, especially when compared to the alternative.
I've run Linux for years and I still can't name all the available distros. I doubt ANYONE can.
I can't name them, either. But I also can't name all the available versions of Windows. So what? Let's see how I do: Available? XP Home, Server, and Enterprise Server 2k3 Vista Home, Professional, and Ultimate.
Let's see how I did by comparing to this Wiki page. I missed: Windows Vista Starter Windows Vista Enterprise and the Windows 2k3 server editions. There are six, which I lumped into one.
Of course, I skipped the embedded. Also, many of those are Enterprise editions of 2003 that you probably won't find people confusing them for a desktop OS (well, they might until the see the price tag!). Also, I skipped older versions of Windows since they can no longer be purchased. They would include Windows 1-3, NT4 and Windows 2k.
I'd copy and paste the Linux list from Distrowatch, but they only list top 100.
Slashdot Mirror
If bacteria can survive that long, and I'm sure longer, this means there is a good chance that there may be life on planets with ice in our solar system. All we have to do is go find it!
Why would the bad guys need mirrors? They just invented a puke ray.
I realize that being anti government, especially anti Bush is pretty hip-cool right now, but...
I don't think you could call these guys "bad" when they just spent an ass-load of time and money to invent a weapon that makes you puke when they could have just said "screw 'em", saved an ass-load of money and simply shot whoever the puke-ray was intended for with a REAL gun. We already invented the 9mm. Why waste the time?
I think these "Bad Guys", as you like to call them, just did something incredibly humane and you should find a way to give credit where it is due rather than bashing every single chance you get.
I remember the manual and floppy that came with my Apple //c. The floppy was an addition to the manual and included little games to help you learn the system. I remember one where little apples, some hollow, some filled, that were rolling down a conveyor belt. You had to hit the right apple key (open or closed apple) depending on the apple that was rolling down the belt. I believe a bunny gave you the gave you tips (ala Clippy). I don't think I remember the manual being all that serious either. That type of creative instruction led me to actually RTFM and get to know the basics of my computer.
HOW F*CKING HARD is it to make a secure voting machine?!? The thing counts and keeps track of votes! I bet i could write a secure voting machine that could handle state and federal elections securely in a couple of days in any language from assembly to bash!
How hard is it to make a secure voting machine? Exactly as hard as it is to make a secure OS and application, along with support files, data and libraries, that will be installed on a machine where it will be located in a public location where anyone can get private, direct access to it. How hard do you THINK it is?
If Microsoft, with billions on top of billions spent on security can not make a machine virus free, what makes you think Diebold can?
But, since we are talking about viruses here, it should be pretty easy to protect these machines from viruses. First, don't connect them to the Internet. Next, don't give voters access to a keyboard, mouse or drive bays. Now, with no keyboard, mouse, network or drive access, how would YOU infect one of these machines with a virus? The Force?
Just look for the guy with that address!
It most do a trace route/phone home or somthing to actually get a useful address
As opposed to the guy at 127.0.0.1! I hacked into his machine once, but that bastard had some sort of active defense daemon running that wiped my drive at the same time I was trying to wipe his!
Fortunately, I was able to see the porno pics of his wife before I was hit. Man! That bitch was FUGLY!
So what you're saying is, the headline isn't completely fair?
Or nice for that matter.
The Cell was developed by Sony, IBM and Toshiba. I don't know if IBM or Toshiba are selling any yet, but it doesn't make sense to sue only Sony. Well, unless this is a bullshit lawsuit and this company is hoping for an extremely fat settlement check.
Of course, let's say there was no disappearing wife, just my deviation to the "Foxy Trot" -- next weekend my friendly neighborhood officer calls with a financial offer I can't refuse.
What's stopping this officer from doing this today? For that matter, what about "Bunny" at "Foxy Trot"?
In either case, you record the conversation, call a lawyer, confess to your wife and let her have the house in the divorce, go the press, sue the city, and live happily single with your new millions!
Blackmail can be your bestest friend!
There is a difference between catching criminals and creating a database of the travel patterns of presumably innocent people.
My initial reaction was "that sounds neat" but by the time I got through even just the summary, it was obvious that creating a database of everyone's travel patterns is not the right way to run the system. Perhaps 10 years hence, you take a different route to work for whatever reason, later that night you get a knock on your door and then: "Sorry to bother you Mr. Jones but we see you deviated from your usual route. Care to explain?" 10 years after that, you have to file travel plans. "Papers please." Yeah, call me a nutter.
OK, nutter, have it your way.
There is also a difference between collecting data and mining it. Collecting data is easy. Extracting anything useful from it is hard. For starters, no one is going to give a shit how you get to work until it becomes relevant. Here's an example:
Lets say your wife goes missing. We know she made a call from home at 9:00am to her mother and left a crying message on your mom-in-law's machine on the day she went missing. Oh, and you were three hours late for work that day. The neighbors report yelling coming from the house the night before. You have just increased the life insurance policy for your wife. These would make you a prime suspect, possibly enough to convict you. However, if they check the data, they find that you entered the toll road at 8:30am the day your wife went missing. You changed to the freeway 45 minutes from your home at 9:25am. You are seen from your path and when you exited the freeway near the strip club that offers breakfast lapdances. You are seen exiting the freeway near your office at at 11:45am.
So while you were guilty of skipping half a day at work and hitting the strip club probably without your wife's knowledge, these things are not illegal and this system saved your ass by supporting your alibi.
Out of curiousity have you ever even used Solaris (http://www.infiltrated.net/sunDesk.jpg) I have do and have for the past 8+ years. Did it occur that maybe Sun is trying to woo Linux users over.
I used Solaris for about 8 minutes. It took me that long to figure out that pressing the TAB key at the CLI did not complete my command. The next 15 minutes was spent reinstalling Linux.
I was going to see if there is some way to get command line completion enabled, but it didn't seem worth it once I saw that I was unable to utilize my history by pressing the UP arrow. Come on! Even DOS had Doskey! Oh, and the DOS style 80 column display...
Sorry, BASh has spoiled me. Maybe Solaris is the greatest OS on earth, but out of the box... it kinda sucked.
It's the slipper slope that comes with something like this in the hands of the government.
Ah yes, the slippery slope argument. Hell, if you are going to use it, USE IT! Why not block the police use of patrol cars, guns, computers, substations since they can be abused. Hell, go all out! Why should the mayor have his own personal army to suppress the public? Maybe we should block the formation of a police force entirely since it is very possible for the mayor to abuse the power to gain even MORE power.
Wait. The people elect the mayor. The people could abuse the power of the polling station for ill gotten gains....
I thought that the Democrats were in charge of both houses?
Sorry to bring it up, but for everyone that claimed that it was Bush and Rove that was trampling on all our rights, it really isn't fair unless you say the same about Pelosi and Reid.
Has anyone posted "Pelosi: Worst. Speaker. EVER!" yet? And, why not?
I really should have added to my text to include the fact that the constitution only applies to what the government can do to the people. The constitution is not what makes it a bad decision to let scientists make decisions, it's the accountability involved in a publicly elected official that makes it the right person to make the hopefully informed decision.
Of course your statement is quite correct and it was entirely my fault for being unclear.
I was going to comment, but then I realized I better keep my mouth shut since my history credentials includes getting B's in college history and having a freaky relationship with a women's history major. (Better to keep my mouth shut and thought a fool than to open it and remove all doubt.)
This reminds me of Soviet Russia or a dictatorship. Having a political "officer" involved in every decision.
Your point is well taken, but replace "political officer" with "scientist" and see if it sounds any better. Remember that unlike Soviet Russia or a dictatorship, in the US, "political officers" are elected directly or appointed by someone elected. Elected officials are beholden to the electorate and the Constitution. Scientists are not elected and have taken no oath to the Constitution. So while I don't trust politicians either, at least I can hold them to the Constitution or vote them out of office. I have no such power over scientists.
scientists: car exhaust and industrial pollutants have caused increased rates of cancer in the Los Angelos area. white house edit: car exhaust and industrial pollutants have not caused increased rates of cancer in the LA area. do you think they'll abuse this?
I think you are missing the point. The point is that the Feds create Federal Regulations, based on scientific findings, not the scientists. Using your example, the logical solution to the pollutant problem would be to ban automobiles. Should scientists be able to make into law? Of course not. It's the legislature's job to make legislation based on the will of the people. It's the scientists job to make scientific discoveries. Scientists take no oath to the Constitution and are not bound by it.
You made me misread "cherry truck" as "Cheney truck" and I was afraid I'd get zapped in the face by it.
I'm a Republican and I found that statement friggin hilarious! Good job!
You make an excellent point. All the enemy needs to do is first fire a barrage of Jiffy Pop popcorn. when the laser hits it, the corn pops and rains down on the target. This should be sufficient in preventing the laser from knocking out the REAL rounds, which are fired second.
Hey, it works when fired from a satellite!
Now, if we can just get the option listed next to the Window's versions, we'll be in good shape.
Let's see what other lie you ignored from my original post: "Rebuilding America's Defenses" signed by Rumsfeld, Cheney, Wolfowitz, Jeb Bush, George Bush Senior... If you look at page 90 of the document, you'll see that no Bush signed it. PROOF, not just an accusation, that you lied, and then have the 12 lb balls to accuse other of lying. THIS is what I mean by projecting. Every time someone presents an argument you can't counter, you call it a lie, and then make up your own lies trying to disprove it.
Your lies have been proven by your own posts, and YOUR words have been used against you. Before you deny saying these things again, please read your own posts. I've only used one post as that is all I have needed, and the link is posted above for your convenience
Genuine Windows Vista(TM) Home Basic + Belkin Easy Transfer Cable [add $9]
Genuine Windows Vista(TM) Home Premium [Included in Price]
Dell Recommended! Enhance your multimedia experience.
Genuine Windows Vista(TM) Ultimate [add $169 or $5/month1] I don't see Ubuntu listed anywhere. I thought it was simpler to get Ubuntu than Windows? Where is the option? I looked under small business desktop, servers, rack systems. It wasn't until I typed "ubuntu" in the search field before I found the Inspiron Desktop 530 N, which came with Ubuntu as the option. However, if I selected the 530 from the front page, Ubuntu was not an option.
So it appears that Linux is available on Dell systems, but you have to actively seek it out. No only is it not listed as a default option, but it's not listed up there at all unless you manually search for it. This is simpler?
How does somebody select a laundry detergent? There's lots of those, each slightly different, but very few people feel unable to wash clothes because they can't figure out which detergent is best.
They pick one off the shelf who's packaging claims to meet their needs best for the price. If a brand was kept off the shelf and the customer had to ask the grocer to get it out of the back probably wouldn't sell too well either. Right now, Linux is not on the shelf. You specifically ask the Grocer to go get it for you.
I think this is a very small issue, at most, in the success of Linux.
Maybe. But the situation won't change until Linux is presented as an option next to Windows.
Point well taken. However, I'm sure there are many MS employed marketers and vendors that can list every version from memory. But with Linux, as someone else here pointed out, in the time it would take someone to memorize every Linux distro, several new ones would appear because anyone can create a distro, and many do.
For comparison purposes, it may be fairer to refer to Linux as distor's, and not so much Linux. For example, we could compare the versions of Ubuntu, (KUbuntu, Ubuntu 64-bit, Ubuntu Server, Gobuntu and so on) to Windows rather than the Linux versions as a whole. Same could go with Gentoo, Sabayon, Redhat and the rest. Then we are not looking at Windows vs. Linux, but Vista vs Sabayon, XP vs KUbuntu, or Server2k3 vs. CentOS, and so on.
Did you even read the page you cited to claim that you only missed two Vista versions and the Server 2k3 versions?
Ouch, you got me there. However, I did say: Of course, I skipped the embedded. Also, many of those are Enterprise editions of 2003 that you probably won't find people confusing them for a desktop OS (well, they might until the see the price tag!). Do you even read the posts you reply to?
Looks like it happened to both of us.
I'm pretty to sure that, e.g., Fry's sells both Linux pre-installed systems and retail-box versions of some of the commercial Linux distros. Dell sells systems with Linux pre-installed.
What does Fry's sell more of, name brand machines or custom built? And last time I was in Fry's shopping for a machine for my step-father's business, I couldn't even get XP Pro on the machine we wanted. I was limited to XP Media Center, period. We purchased a comparable machine from elsewhere for about the same price.
As for Dell. They've done this for how long? A week? A month? What is the default option? Is Linux available on all PC's or just a few "business" models?
Since no distribution exists that "comes as an option to be preinstalled on computers from the majority of manufacturers", and its clear that none will until the demand for Linux from consumers is great enough to force that option, you seem to be saying that to become popular, Linux must first be popular. (I disagree that Linux users have to stick to one distro for this to be the case; as long as there is application compatibility across distros, it wouldn't matter if each hardware manufacturer offered a different distro.)
You have a point, but we are talking about a chicken and egg thing here. MFG's are not going to switch to installing Linux by default because few will buy them. Few people will try Linux when their system comes preinstalled with Windows. However, if the MFG's included an Ubuntu Live-DVD in the box or in the listed Ubuntu as "Ubuntu Linux -$50" (as in minus 50 bucks) in the OS menu, more people might consider trying it.
But there is a kernel of truth there in that Linux won't acheive desktop competitiveness (in the market sense rather than the quality sense), until lots of people get exposed to Linux other than by choosing to buy it individually, so that they don't have to take the risk of what they perceive as "the unknown".
Right On!
Which means that the only way Linux will compete is the same way MS got its desktop dominance back in the days of DOS: providing enterprises a reason to standardize on it so that its what people need to use for work.
You have a point, but the opposite is also true. There are many IT managers (not techs, but managers) who hear Windows Server, see an interface that is familiar to them and think, "I run that at home. I already know something about that. I know a LOT more about Windows than I do CentOS."
While I would agree that these are statements showing that it was justified (at least partly) on the basis of building a democratic government in Iraq, does it precede the justification for stopping Saddam's weapons programs? The poster (imkonen) is arguing that someone is stating (post-Saddam) that [neocons] "insist that the single most important reason we invaded Iraq was to establish Democracy". My question was really (in that context) to that point.
You are correct. The primary reason to go into Iraq was to stop the various weapons programs. While the intelligence this was based on was not as flawed as we are led to believe, it was flawed nonetheless. There were chemical and bio weapons and programs in Iraq, just not the stockpiles or gangbuster programs we were led to believe.
Either way, that was then, this is now. We have to make the best of the situation over there. We can not leave it worse that we found it. We have the opportunity to something wonderful over there or something disastrous. Doing the right thing will time time, effort, blood and money, but I feel it will be worth it in the long run, especially when compared to the alternative.
Available?
XP Home, Server, and Enterprise
Server 2k3
Vista Home, Professional, and Ultimate.
Let's see how I did by comparing to this Wiki page. I missed:
Windows Vista Starter
Windows Vista Enterprise
and the Windows 2k3 server editions. There are six, which I lumped into one.
Of course, I skipped the embedded. Also, many of those are Enterprise editions of 2003 that you probably won't find people confusing them for a desktop OS (well, they might until the see the price tag!). Also, I skipped older versions of Windows since they can no longer be purchased. They would include Windows 1-3, NT4 and Windows 2k.
I'd copy and paste the Linux list from Distrowatch, but they only list top 100.