Wow! You got Sun to give you free copies of Solaris for Sparc? Last I checked you still had to pay a hefty $90k (!) for an OS with nearly equivalent functionality as Linux. I call that a bad deal.
You are a FUDing fool. Please, if you try to make good points, don't throw in bullcrap.
Pre-Solaris 8 Solaris costs $90,000 to run on non-Sun hardware, on a 32 processor machine, if you don't have Solaris on support from Sun. This is not a real world situation. I just priced Solaris 2.6 at £83, server edition.
No, ksh and csh are not integral parts of the OS (much less CDE, as I've gotten on quite fine without it for most of my Unix life, thank you). A SHELL is an integral part, and ksh and csh are, IMO, not very good choices for these particular itegral parts (when tcsh, bash, and zsh are far better). A C compiler is often considered an integral part of the OS - what would you think of a Linux distro that shipped gcc 1.0 as the system compiler? As far as I'm concerned, that's about equivalent.
Solaris 8 ships with GCC. A Shell is an important part of your interaction with an OS. If you can't manage that yourself (writing your own aliases, as well as choosing your own shell), you shouldn't be wasting your time with Solaris.
Re:Yeh but Linux is actually better...
on
Free Solaris 8
·
· Score: 1
Jesus H. Christ.
Sun packages do exist. www.sunfreeware.com
This ain't a reply to the individual post I'm replying to, just a general post;)
Oh, no. This is going to turn into the same discussion as before, when the "Top 10 Gadgets of the years 1000-1999" news story was on Slashdot. That thread turned quite off topic, with people claiming that "painting, the expression of humans using art..." was a gadget. WTF?
Anyhow, this discussion has already been done on/., I can't wait for this rehash.
"No! No! The Philips Screwdriver was far more important than the microwave" etc. etc. ad infiniatum.
> One of which is his statement that "support > is still an issue." This is simply not > true.
You are sooooo wrong. No company is going to deploy Linux in a mission critical fashion without either 1) Employing a Linux Kernel Hacker 2) Paying somebody to certify systems and run around documentation for them etc. 3) Having soembody to sue;)
Sun have built on a support-orientated business plan. They do support well. They have nice escalation procedures etc. This sounds great for managment. Linux could be pushed out more if management had escalation procedures etc. Support is as issue. It's been worked on, sak Redhat;)
Of course "uname" returns 5.7, for the version number of the kernel that Solaris 7 comes with. It is running SunOS version 5.7, and Solaris refers to the larger bundle, i.e. Solaris, openWindows etc. That side of things is reasonably clear to me!:)
...God is being sued! RIAA reckon that some of god's "arms", "legs" and "heads" are functioning together in an intelligent manner, at times to break RIAA regulations etc. God openly admits to having created these "arms", "legs" and "heads" and putting them on the planet earth, but a spokesperson for god has stated while god did not actually break the law, he obviously deserves to goto hell.
There are lots of reasons why Sun might be doing this... e.g.
Sun are moving x86 towards the server market, what with NT forcing x86 hardware makers to actually produce decent fault tolerant hardware and decent SMP etc., x86 is gonna be Sun's other server market. x86 Solaris looked like it was gonna be Sun's desktop baby, but the with the Ultra 60 etc., it seems they're more into producing top notch desktop gear, and servers. Where does that leave x86 desktop users? Kinda fucked, without Sun making new device drivers etc. This way, most likely Linux drivers will be ported to Solaris.
Somebody reckoned that Solaris will be cracked to bits because of open sourcing the kernel - Good! Security through obscurity etc. Every release of Solaris has had root exploits in it, this way there'll be more caught quicker, at the very least, there's a mountain of Solaris customers wanting their kernel to do different things. Many a college project can now be done messing with Solaris.
The reasons for this being released is money. But that doesn't make this a BadThing(tm). This is a GoodThing(tm).
I wonder will Sun distribute "devoloper" patches, or simply unofficially get somebody to do it, ala sunfreeware.com ?
>Solaris is already free, at least for personal >use. You can download it from > Sun. Sun did this to stem the tide of >Linux -- and it failed miserably.
You are talking shit. You cannot download Solaris.
>Also, on the same hardware Solaris is noticeably >slower than Linux. In fact, I > recently compared performance of my >Ultra 5 (at work) and my K6/2-300 (at > home). I did it in a simple minded way: >I compiled GCC on both. My K6-2 > started later and finished sooner -- I >didn't actually measure the times, but > it was around twice as fast . Well, how fucking scientific!
>Given that Solaris/x86 is not too hot (in my >experience it is nowhere > near as robust as Solaris/SPARX or >Linux)
How?
>Things like bash, GNU find, GNU grep are >dramatically > better than the equivalent bundled >commands.
I've actually used x86 Solaris for 1.5 years, on a multiuser (heavily overloaded) system. Solaris has coped extremely well, though the hardware hasn't.
Sun aren't really pushing Solaris x86 as a desktop solution anymore, and won't be keeping device drivers cutting edge ( Did they ever?;) )
Sun will be pushing x86 as a viable server solution, with NT pushing x86 into decent server-land, decent SMP / Fault tolerant hardware etc. Solaris x86 is a perfectly good server. It is fast. You've to understand Solaris though, for one it needs far more swap than Linux, that's where most home users trying out Solaris once get bitten.
I own the free version of Solaris. I rushed out and bought it the first week it was released for free.
Wow!
I also own too many distributions of Linux. I've installed Solaris on about 8 machines at various jobs. Every time I've thought "What a poor imitation of Linux."
Wow!
I have my own Web server. It runs Linux or FreeBSD (Which I also bought) depending on my mood. When I installed BSD I thought: "Wow! This is very usable, it reminds me of Linux!"
Let's judge an OS by your lack of effort in getting the tools you use onto it, good thinking.
Solaris, on low end hardware (any Intel) is very slow compared to Linux.
Nope. I bet you didn't give it enough swap, as you don't understand Solaris, and you got pissed off with CDE and hotjava, cos they're shit and slow.
I haven't run Solaris on many Sun Workstations, so I can only hope that it is exponentially faster, but for me, what makes Linux so great is:
Open kernel sources
USeful kernel hackers, irrelevant on a production machine and 99% of users (Though about 25% or Linux users reckon this is great, thoygh they're ignorant of how kernels work etc.)
The ability to modify the kernel
I've never needed to do this.
Hardware support (Especially Video, sadly lacking in Solaris)
Xfree86 on Solaris too.
The community spirit
Go to your local pub.
The great software: Apache
Runs on Solaris.
Gnome
Doesn't this run on Solaris?
KDE
Runs on Solaris! Vi
Comes with Solaris, actually two versions.
Emacs
Guess what, it runs on Solaris.
Gcc (Gotta have a compiler)
Yup, and gcc is for Solaris too!
Enlightenment
Guess what.
The Gimp
Guess what.
XFree86 in general
PHP/MySQL Guess what.
Telneting
You are a fucking moron.
A completely customizable OS
So. Text files for modifying EVERYTHING
/etc/system, you moron.
The speed
You're not very speedy.
The great multitasking Samba
Jesus Christ.
Now, it's true that practically everything on that list is doable under Solaris, in fact all of that software will easily compile and install under Solaris (Heck, I've done it!)
But NONE of it is as nice or as integrated as it is in Linux.
You are stupid! How are these integrated with the kernel?
To me, Solaris is the NT of Unix, and Sun the Microsoft of Unix.
To me, you are stupid.
I like that Linux is developed by the community for the community. Same as the BSD's. For that reason, I am a total convert who will never give up my cherished platform.
Ignorant of anything else, caught on a bandwagon.
I have deployed Linux as web servers into two environments, my own server, and one that was previously running IIS. In both cases, we fell under the category of being allowed to run the "Free" Solaris. In both cases we had access to NT, Linux and Solaris. In both cases we chose Linux. It had NOTHING to do with price.
Wow.
If Solaris was OpenSource, MAYBE it would be a contender, but I doubt it.
Slashdot Mirror
Wow! You got Sun to give you free copies of Solaris for Sparc? Last I checked you still had to pay a hefty $90k (!) for an OS with nearly equivalent functionality as Linux. I call that a bad deal.
You are a FUDing fool. Please, if you try to make good points, don't throw in bullcrap.
Pre-Solaris 8 Solaris costs $90,000 to run on non-Sun hardware, on a 32 processor machine, if you don't have Solaris on support from Sun. This is not a real world situation. I just priced Solaris 2.6 at £83, server edition.
That's a license for non-production use.
A commercial license of Solaris 7 for Sparc costs more than a month's rent
for me . .
Solaris 8 is free for everybody, commercial or not, for systems 8 processors. You pay for media.
No, ksh and csh are not integral parts of the OS (much less CDE, as I've
gotten on quite fine without it for most of my Unix life, thank you). A
SHELL is an integral part, and ksh and csh are, IMO, not very good choices for these particular itegral parts (when tcsh, bash, and zsh are far better). A C compiler is often considered an integral part of the OS - what would you
think of a Linux distro that shipped gcc 1.0 as the system compiler? As far as I'm concerned, that's about equivalent.
Solaris 8 ships with GCC. A Shell is an important part of your interaction with an OS. If you can't manage that yourself (writing your own aliases, as well as choosing your own shell), you shouldn't be wasting your time with Solaris.
Jesus H. Christ.
;)
Sun packages do exist.
www.sunfreeware.com
This ain't a reply to the individual post I'm replying to, just a general post
Oh, no. This is going to turn into the same discussion as before, when the "Top 10 Gadgets of the years 1000-1999" news story was on Slashdot.
/., I can't wait for this rehash.
That thread turned quite off topic, with people claiming that "painting, the expression of humans using art..." was a gadget. WTF?
Anyhow, this discussion has already been done on
"No! No! The Philips Screwdriver was far more important than the microwave" etc. etc. ad infiniatum.
> One of which is his statement that "support
;)
;)
> is still an issue." This is simply not
> true.
You are sooooo wrong. No company is going to deploy Linux in a mission critical fashion without either 1) Employing a Linux Kernel Hacker
2) Paying somebody to certify systems and
run around documentation for them etc.
3) Having soembody to sue
Sun have built on a support-orientated business plan. They do support well. They have nice escalation procedures etc. This sounds great for managment. Linux could be pushed out more if management had escalation procedures etc. Support is as issue. It's been worked on, sak Redhat
>And every Catholic Irishman knows that is he's
> near an explosion in England, he's guilty.
What bullshit. Get a clue.
You bloody sympathetic to the Irish cause Americans funded the IRA. *FACT*.
Of course "uname" returns 5.7, for the version number of the kernel that Solaris 7 comes with. :)
It is running SunOS version 5.7, and Solaris refers to the larger bundle, i.e. Solaris, openWindows etc. That side of things is reasonably clear to me!
...God is being sued! RIAA reckon that some of god's "arms", "legs" and "heads" are functioning together in an intelligent manner, at times to break RIAA regulations etc.
God openly admits to having created these "arms", "legs" and "heads" and putting them on the planet earth, but a spokesperson for god has stated while god did not actually break the law, he obviously deserves to goto hell.
The Big Bang was pretty muched hacked together by God, I nominate that as best hack.
There are lots of reasons why Sun might be doing this... e.g.
Sun are moving x86 towards the server market, what with NT forcing x86 hardware makers to actually produce decent fault tolerant hardware and decent SMP etc., x86 is gonna be Sun's other server market. x86 Solaris looked like it was gonna be Sun's desktop baby, but the with the Ultra 60 etc., it seems they're more into producing top notch desktop gear, and servers. Where does that leave x86 desktop users? Kinda fucked, without Sun making new device drivers etc. This way, most likely Linux drivers will be ported to Solaris.
Somebody reckoned that Solaris will be cracked to bits because of open sourcing the kernel - Good!
Security through obscurity etc. Every release of Solaris has had root exploits in it, this way there'll be more caught quicker, at the very least, there's a mountain of Solaris customers wanting their kernel to do different things. Many a college project can now be done messing with Solaris.
The reasons for this being released is money.
But that doesn't make this a BadThing(tm). This is a GoodThing(tm).
I wonder will Sun distribute "devoloper" patches, or simply unofficially get somebody to do it, ala sunfreeware.com ?
>Solaris is already free, at least for personal >use. You can download it from
> Sun. Sun did this to stem the tide of >Linux -- and it failed miserably.
You are talking shit. You cannot download Solaris.
>Also, on the same hardware Solaris is noticeably >slower than Linux. In fact, I
> recently compared performance of my >Ultra 5 (at work) and my K6/2-300 (at
> home). I did it in a simple minded way: >I compiled GCC on both. My K6-2
> started later and finished sooner -- I >didn't actually measure the times, but
> it was around twice as fast
.
Well, how fucking scientific!
>Given that Solaris/x86 is not too hot (in my >experience it is nowhere
> near as robust as Solaris/SPARX or >Linux)
How?
>Things like bash, GNU find, GNU grep are >dramatically
> better than the equivalent bundled >commands.
Very good. sunfreeware.com.
I've actually used x86 Solaris for 1.5 years, on a multiuser (heavily overloaded) system. Solaris has coped extremely well, though the hardware hasn't.
Sun aren't really pushing Solaris x86 as a desktop solution anymore, and won't be keeping device drivers cutting edge ( Did they ever? ;) )
Sun will be pushing x86 as a viable server solution, with NT pushing x86 into decent server-land, decent SMP / Fault tolerant hardware etc. Solaris x86 is a perfectly good server. It is fast. You've to understand Solaris though, for one it needs far more swap than Linux, that's where most home users trying out Solaris once get bitten.
I'm a student
Wow! So am I!
I own the free version of Solaris. I rushed out and bought it the first week it
was released for free.
Wow!
I also own too many distributions of Linux. I've
installed Solaris on about 8 machines at various jobs. Every time I've
thought "What a poor imitation of Linux."
Wow!
I have my own Web server. It runs Linux or FreeBSD (Which I also bought)
depending on my mood. When I installed BSD I thought: "Wow! This is very
usable, it reminds me of Linux!"
Let's judge an OS by your lack of effort in getting the tools you use onto it, good thinking.
Solaris, on low end hardware (any Intel) is very slow compared to Linux.
Nope. I bet you didn't give it enough swap, as you don't understand Solaris, and you got pissed off with CDE and hotjava, cos they're shit and slow.
I
haven't run Solaris on many Sun Workstations, so I can only hope that it is
exponentially faster, but for me, what makes Linux so great is:
Open kernel sources
USeful kernel hackers, irrelevant on a production machine and 99% of users (Though about 25% or Linux users reckon this is great, thoygh they're ignorant of how kernels work etc.)
The ability to modify the kernel
I've never needed to do this.
Hardware support (Especially Video, sadly lacking in Solaris)
Xfree86 on Solaris too.
The community spirit
Go to your local pub.
The great software:
Apache
Runs on Solaris.
Gnome
Doesn't this run on Solaris?
KDE
Runs on Solaris!
Vi
Comes with Solaris, actually two versions.
Emacs
Guess what, it runs on Solaris.
Gcc (Gotta have a compiler)
Yup, and gcc is for Solaris too!
Enlightenment
Guess what.
The Gimp
Guess what.
XFree86 in general
PHP/MySQL
Guess what.
Telneting
You are a fucking moron.
A completely customizable OS
So.
Text files for modifying EVERYTHING
/etc/system, you moron.
The speed
You're not very speedy.
The great multitasking
Samba
Jesus Christ.
Now, it's true that practically everything on that list is doable under Solaris,
in fact all of that software will easily compile and install under Solaris (Heck,
I've done it!)
But NONE of it is as nice or as integrated as it is in Linux.
You are stupid! How are these integrated with the kernel?
To me, Solaris is
the NT of Unix, and Sun the Microsoft of Unix.
To me, you are stupid.
I like that Linux is developed by the community for the community. Same as
the BSD's. For that reason, I am a total convert who will never give up my
cherished platform.
Ignorant of anything else, caught on a bandwagon.
I have deployed Linux as web servers into two environments, my own
server, and one that was previously running IIS. In both cases, we fell under
the category of being allowed to run the "Free" Solaris. In both cases we had
access to NT, Linux and Solaris. In both cases we chose Linux. It had
NOTHING to do with price.
Wow.
If Solaris was OpenSource, MAYBE it would be a contender, but I doubt it.
How. you are a sheep.
You're really funny.
Solaris7 can turn off execution in the stack.
breaks Java and a few other things.
It can log it too.