No, Screwer's Law. What kind of prices are those? They never cost that much to produce. Overpriced to beyond dreams of affordability, just because it's "new". I'm not buying one before they're CHEAP.
Is climate change based on science, that is KNOWLEDGE or is it based of assumptions (beliefs) and guesswork?
It's based on the predictions of the current theory.
So where did the first DNA come from that carries the code to make itself?
Insert standard counter-argument against Irreductible Complexity here.
Just like adherents of any religion, these "scientists" are very much unwilling to throw out long held beliefs and re-examine the fundamental tenets of their religion.
Well, there is the old saying that some theories advance one funeral at a time. But scientists sometimes present theories that refutes their own previous findings, whereas religions insist on Not Changing The Sacred Word. And if they didn't, they wouldn't have lasted long in any sort of recognizable form... It's an error-preventing mechanism, but what it says contradicts the basic mechanism of science. This makes science the superior tool for understanding and interacting with the world.
Genetic altruism? Yes, it explains the suicidal self-sacrifice trait. I was talking of our altruism towards other humans. That is a group-survival trait with a longer causal loop.
I say that the Bible contains nothing that our survival instincts are, at best, explained away, encoded in the $HOLY_BOOK. In our natural environment, that's how we tend to do. (Our natural environment seems to be a village where everyone knows everyone's place and rank. Between one hundred and one thousand persons, that's about all our brains can map.)
No, I'm thinking of a direct democracy. But, yeah, one person = one vote, in the sense that no person's vote is more important than another's. But "true democracy", yeah, you'd have to be well-informedabout current issues and all. Which voting system, that's not important. What's needed is, replace all the administration by computers, so that it's efficient, and let The People run everything by direct consensus.
Humans are, uniquely among all creatures, always have been and always will be religious creatures. Explain why that is scientifically, if you will.
Oooh, a challenge! Shiny, shiney new toy. Thanks Santa!
Now let's break it, fast.
Our abilities to plan into the future, remember the past, recognize patterns, abstract thought, and infer by analogy are survival traits. Right?
Now, parallel research on split-brain patients and in AI have arrived to a similar model of the mind. It is a group of agents, each specializing in one task. What split-brain research has demonstrated is that the inference module is not accurate : it infer an explanation for anything, as long as it can apply a pattern that's been memorized before. For example, paranoia seems to work by forcing the inference module to find scary explanations to ordinary events. Agents are interacting, but independent. A paranoid person may know full well that there isn't, say, a sniper hiding just there in the bushes, but will have to go see to be sure, even if that's several times.
Religion is an explanation for things that science has figured out by now. It appeared as primitive explanations to... everything, especially the origin of the world and of the laws that govern it. But someone finally decided that they'd seen enough the pattern of "the world around me seems to work in a consistent ways" and inferred "maybe I can figure out all the rules". Now that is an other way to get the answers, and it's better, because it yields perfect results when everything is right (ie, you test an hypothese that happens to be correct). The scientific method is a better tool than religion, so it will supplant it some day.
What's frustrating is knowing there is a reason why people still believe in God : the ssurvival trait to find new ideas dangerous, weird, strange. It is a group-survival trait : if we didn't have it, the genuinely dangerous new ideas would kill us all off damn fast.
Now you know the mechanisms by which both religion and science appeared, and because of which there is a fight between them memes. Happy?
To your genes : Replicate as much as possible. To your body : Live as long as possible, expending as little energy as possible. To you : Find something to do, obviously.
4, What will happen to me after I die?
What happens to a cat's sight after it dies? It stops. What does your consciousness do when you die? It stops. Brain processes stop. Seen through your own eyes, your identity is in your brain. Thus, it stops at death. Apart from that, left to itself, your body will rot and eventually be eaten by various necrophages.
And this is bad exactly how? I don't see maintaining packages as a principal activity being profitable in the long run. Disk space is cheap, compatibility is priceless.
There are advantages and disadvantages. Since we know already the advantages, here are the disadvantages:
Libraries which aren't shared take up additional RAM when applications using the same libraries would take.
Not a very good argument, IMO. If the system is designed in any reasonable way, there should be at least enough RAM in today's computers to take care of that... Of course, if every app needs a full low-level graphics lib and all the layers above, then... then stop programming in DOS.
My point is, application-specific libs belong with the app. The more self-contained the better. So that it won't fuck up the system like MS Office does Windows (not to touch the subject of the Norton line... Nope... must... resist...), or induce Dependency Hell like "missing lib version 14.15-rc4alpha, won't compile even though you have other revisions, plural" in Linux.
When there is a new security vulnerability, each of these applications have to release a update rather than the single library just being there.
I'm shaking my head in disgust, thinking Now that is a good point. Why not use the vulnerability to spread the fix? That's how some famous virus (can't remember which) originated, iIrc : someone was trying to deliver software in an automated way without having to do anything on the client machine. Maybe that's actually a good idsea.
Generally, it's a lot easier ensuring one library that is global is updated than tonnes of 3rd parties who have their own release schedules, making a system more vulnerable.
Error. That's the situation already. Major apps must be updated with their own, "Invented HERE!!1!ZOMG" updater. (See : Office, Adobe Suite, Norton xxx,... ) and minor apps almost all have a "check for update" command. When it's not "Do you want to install update? -y -Installing... Installed. Click to relaunch."
Application vendors bundling their apps with all required libs, tagetting a minimum standard base (I haven't read the LSB so I don't know what basic functionality it covers), would be a killer app for F/OSS.
LSB gives options for this. Also LSB compliance specifies minimal bases that you can rely on being there always.
.....
I suppose Linux could evolve into a sort-of "OSX on Hackintosh with Fink or MacPorts"... Which is what I'm using, for one.
Honestly, Fink, Darwin Ports, MacPorts are quite... annoying with their dependency hell issues.
Every package manager sucks. All of them. No esception. I've had major breakages on all of them. Windows Installer, Gentoo Portage, BSD Ports, MacPorts, Fink, apt-get, rpm, YaST, and so many others I lost count. They. All. Suck. They all have Dependency Hell issues. They depend on metadata such as file dates, which are NOT reliable. Or they use "the filesystem as database", which is a disaster waiting to happen. Not to be waiting long. Databases suck, they're never properly updated. Tracking each file individually? Sssllloooowww.... Depend on 3rd-party uninstallers? Yeah, right.
Hmm.. What was that Linux distribution that followed the OS X way of packaging things into folders? I can't remember it's name.
Me neither, but I remember thinking that it would be the easiest distro in the world. "Install stuff? Copy folder. Remove stuff? Remove folder. Depende-what? Apps that Just Work from a computer to the other? Apps in BINARY FORM? Hell has frozen over and Adobe is going to port its
I think that direct democracy is good enough, provided we have a means to transmit data to and from any point on the planet, at lightspeed and nearly zero cost, and everyone is connected. That way, we humans can get to know, and get to talk, about everything that's going on. We would need no government, only scripts to count votes. Everything totally transparent, of course : it's run by the commmunity, directly. What would there be to hide?
Now that's funny. Without religion, why would you stone a woman... in "adultery"? What's that?
See? Sexual morality is not exactly an evolved trait. It is the result of the "Selfish Gene" causal loop, mixed with the fact that fecundity should be better in groups with a free sexuality (opposed causal loop). So we instinctively ask our mate to practice fidelity, knowing full well s/he will want someone else eventually, while they do the exact same.
So let's take the simple route and forget the whole idea of fidelity, shall we? (And before someone talks about MSTs, they're technical problems with technical solutions that we'll find eventually.)
Whenever I see an "I Accept" bullshit llicense thing, I consider it null and void. Because it needlessly interrupts the flow of the process of whatever it is I'm doing. Registering on a web site? No strings attached. I DON'T accept their terms and conditions. If they kick me, well, it's their server, they can do that. I don't trust them, anyway, so my info is fake. Installing a program? Well, I interpret the "I Agree" button as meaning "I allow this package to be installed".
Oh, please stop. God does not exist. Religion is bullshit all the way through. Religion contains nothing worth of respect whatsoever. What, the "do unto toers as you would have them do to you" part? As if our evolved group-survival trait of altruism was not enough to take care of that.
And that is exactly what I'd be afraid of if Linux ever became mainstream on the desktop. Vendors would resort to bloating each application with a redundant set of libraries.
This is what happens on OS X with it's self contained application folders.
And this is bad exactly how? I don't see maintaining packages as a principal activity being profitable in the long run. Disk space is cheap, compatibility is priceless.
Application vendors bundling their apps with all required libs, tagetting a minimum standard base (I haven't read the LSB so I don't know what basic functionality it covers), would be a killer app for F/OSS. I suppose Linux could evolve into a sort-of "OSX on Hackintosh with Fink or MacPorts"... Which is what I'm using, for one.
This is definitely one of the must-have features that I would need in any sort of social aggregation tool like the one you describe. I have other thoughts, but I'm interested in what others have to say.
Will never happen. Websites change all the times (can't automate away even a login, unless you play cat 'n mouse with the site) and they're mostly badly coded.
I can get that, easy. Yes, by not patching. Why, to install the latest Microsoft malware? Do the test yourself someday : install Windows (2k or xp), then the necessary drivers (chipset, audio, VGA, LAN), then run a full Windows Update.
If it ever reboots, it will take an order of magnitude more time (i.e. either from "seconds" to "minutes" or from "minutes" to "hours"), and not only the first time - I'm talking after the full run. The one that will take the whole day, because you have to reboot a LOT of times.
Then, defrag your disk. If you can bear to wait the 5 minutes loading time just for MMC, and 5 more minutes "connecting to Local Disk Management Service" while you think "is LOCAL not supposed to be FAST?".
Then, you will well format and reinstall, and NOT update the thing. And you'll have learnt why people end up using Windows XP : Pirate Edition. The one that gets updated every so often, and that you'll have to track different distros of, to get the latest fixes.
It's not "the alternative to windows update", it's the only option if you want an up-to-date WinXP. Windows update breaks you PC. I've tried the method above on every hardware generation since 2001 : Athlon/P4s on VIA/Intel/AMD chipsets with ATI/nVidia cards and SDRAM/DDR/DDRII. WINDOWS UPDATE BREAKS WINDOWS XP. That is a FACT. If you update your WinXP box, it WILL become so slow as to be completely unusable.
But I'm on a hackintosh now, so if I want my computer to catch a virus, I have to ask it to run doubtful code. And to update it, I go to the forum and search for updates. That happens once in three months iirc...
I live in a police state with a policy of wealth confiscation through taxation of the earned income of its slaves, and continual currency devaluation to inflate away the saved wealth that any of its slaves manage to accumulate despite the saved wealth.
I'm living in one of the world's most socialist country since the fall of USSR. Here you can live all your life without working. On the other side (of the Atlantic) the grass is greener, but that's because there's that much more rot.
And I can tell you, there is no way in Hell you can get a job if you don't have a car. (With gas climbing rapidly to two euros a litre..) USian health insurance, yeah, right - like they'll pay if you ever get sick. Europe's cheap public transportation? Yeah, right. When they're not on strike, they're so inefficient that it's faster to WALK.
And I'm gonna tell you something else : when you have to pay THREE TIMES OVER in taxes what your employee really earns, then it's pretty much impossible not to outsource some work to where you'll have a non-negative return on investment.
Oh, something more : without a post-secondary degree, you're unemployed and you'll stay so. Or maybe you want to work blue-collar? Okay, you need a diploma for that. "WTF?" Yes. Even to haul cement blocks and bags. Two to three years in school to learn that. You need it, otherwise they'll get someone who has the paper. Or, rather, in Real Life : they'll hire an Turk who pays his Bulgars so little that it's even cheaper than paying black-market labor prices (i.e. norrmal minus 300% taxes markup). That makes for creative accounting... when there even is a company name...
And so forth. In the most socialist of welfare states, it's the whole fucking system that's burdened by so much taxes that profitability is not even remotely possible. Not without cheating.
What if a supermaniacal, evil genius bent on ruling this country decided to take the billions of dollars he or she just happens to have, and buys votes in key areas in order to become President. What then?
About the scholarship part, well, since you'll have to serve as a slave for half your life just to repay it, there's no WONDER they'd give up their right to vote.
The other half of the life as a slave is to pay for house mortgage, cars, and maybe lawyers as needed. Oh, and health, too, because your insurance will find a way not to pay, when you'll need it.
autorun.inf and ghost.pif, yeah, right. Who still uses windows, AND has autorun enabled? Answer : Everyone. Even geeks give up configuring Windows to that point after one hundred reinstalls. Or they give up on Windows already... Okay, "who does not reformat new HDs before use?"
Who buys Maxtor HDs anyway? Never had one that even lasted till the end of warranty, used 8 of those in under two years. And there are not enough hours in one year to make up for the order of magnitude between announced and effective MTBF. (168*52 = way less than "tens of thousands of hours".)
Not that I excuse them for dataraping their customers. The exec that ordered that should be put to a very slow and painful death. With the Maxtor engineering team. (If there even IS one.)
Tablet PC are really cool devices. Why don't everyone have one? BECAUSE THEY COST AN ARM AND LEG to Normal People. Companies and such can buy them, but people? Forget it. Or they also buy audio cables at $7000 too.
Slashdot Mirror
Just some minutes ago, I've had a vision of the 'Net where all the traffic is encypted. Maybe it's a sign...
No, Screwer's Law. What kind of prices are those? They never cost that much to produce. Overpriced to beyond dreams of affordability, just because it's "new". I'm not buying one before they're CHEAP.
Is climate change based on science, that is KNOWLEDGE or is it based of assumptions (beliefs) and guesswork?
It's based on the predictions of the current theory.
So where did the first DNA come from that carries the code to make itself?
Insert standard counter-argument against Irreductible Complexity here.
Just like adherents of any religion, these "scientists" are very much unwilling to throw out long held beliefs and re-examine the fundamental tenets of their religion.
Well, there is the old saying that some theories advance one funeral at a time. But scientists sometimes present theories that refutes their own previous findings, whereas religions insist on Not Changing The Sacred Word. And if they didn't, they wouldn't have lasted long in any sort of recognizable form... It's an error-preventing mechanism, but what it says contradicts the basic mechanism of science. This makes science the superior tool for understanding and interacting with the world.
I'm stoned. But it seems that you're spouting superficial comments that mean nothing.
Genetic altruism? Yes, it explains the suicidal self-sacrifice trait. I was talking of our altruism towards other humans. That is a group-survival trait with a longer causal loop.
I say that the Bible contains nothing that our survival instincts are, at best, explained away, encoded in the $HOLY_BOOK. In our natural environment, that's how we tend to do. (Our natural environment seems to be a village where everyone knows everyone's place and rank. Between one hundred and one thousand persons, that's about all our brains can map.)
No, I'm thinking of a direct democracy. But, yeah, one person = one vote, in the sense that no person's vote is more important than another's. But "true democracy", yeah, you'd have to be well-informedabout current issues and all. Which voting system, that's not important. What's needed is, replace all the administration by computers, so that it's efficient, and let The People run everything by direct consensus.
Oooh, a challenge! Shiny, shiney new toy. Thanks Santa!
Now let's break it, fast.
Our abilities to plan into the future, remember the past, recognize patterns, abstract thought, and infer by analogy are survival traits. Right?
Now, parallel research on split-brain patients and in AI have arrived to a similar model of the mind. It is a group of agents, each specializing in one task. What split-brain research has demonstrated is that the inference module is not accurate : it infer an explanation for anything, as long as it can apply a pattern that's been memorized before.
For example, paranoia seems to work by forcing the inference module to find scary explanations to ordinary events. Agents are interacting, but independent. A paranoid person may know full well that there isn't, say, a sniper hiding just there in the bushes, but will have to go see to be sure, even if that's several times.
Religion is an explanation for things that science has figured out by now. It appeared as primitive explanations to
But someone finally decided that they'd seen enough the pattern of "the world around me seems to work in a consistent ways" and inferred "maybe I can figure out all the rules". Now that is an other way to get the answers, and it's better, because it yields perfect results when everything is right (ie, you test an hypothese that happens to be correct). The scientific method is a better tool than religion, so it will supplant it some day.
What's frustrating is knowing there is a reason why people still believe in God : the ssurvival trait to find new ideas dangerous, weird, strange. It is a group-survival trait : if we didn't have it, the genuinely dangerous new ideas would kill us all off damn fast.
Now you know the mechanisms by which both religion and science appeared, and because of which there is a fight between them memes. Happy?
1, Where did I come from?
Your mom, for but about half of your genes.
2, Who am I, really?
The sum of your experiences.
3, What, if any, is the purpose of my existence?
To your genes : Replicate as much as possible.
To your body : Live as long as possible, expending as little energy as possible.
To you : Find something to do, obviously.
4, What will happen to me after I die?
What happens to a cat's sight after it dies? It stops. What does your consciousness do when you die? It stops. Brain processes stop. Seen through your own eyes, your identity is in your brain. Thus, it stops at death.
Apart from that, left to itself, your body will rot and eventually be eaten by various necrophages.
Does that answer the questions?
Not a very good argument, IMO. If the system is designed in any reasonable way, there should be at least enough RAM in today's computers to take care of that... Of course, if every app needs a full low-level graphics lib and all the layers above, then... then stop programming in DOS.
... resist...), or induce Dependency Hell like "missing lib version 14.15-rc4alpha, won't compile even though you have other revisions, plural" in Linux.
My point is, application-specific libs belong with the app. The more self-contained the better. So that it won't fuck up the system like MS Office does Windows (not to touch the subject of the Norton line... Nope... must
I'm shaking my head in disgust, thinking Now that is a good point. Why not use the vulnerability to spread the fix? That's how some famous virus (can't remember which) originated, iIrc : someone was trying to deliver software in an automated way without having to do anything on the client machine. Maybe that's actually a good idsea.
Error. That's the situation already. Major apps must be updated with their own, "Invented HERE!!1!ZOMG" updater. (See : Office, Adobe Suite, Norton xxx, ... ) and minor apps almost all have a "check for update" command. When it's not "Do you want to install update? -y -Installing... Installed. Click to relaunch."
Every package manager sucks. All of them. No esception. I've had major breakages on all of them. Windows Installer, Gentoo Portage, BSD Ports, MacPorts, Fink, apt-get, rpm, YaST, and so many others I lost count. They. All. Suck. They all have Dependency Hell issues. They depend on metadata such as file dates, which are NOT reliable. Or they use "the filesystem as database", which is a disaster waiting to happen. Not to be waiting long. Databases suck, they're never properly updated. Tracking each file individually? Sssllloooowww.... Depend on 3rd-party uninstallers? Yeah, right.
Me neither, but I remember thinking that it would be the easiest distro in the world. "Install stuff? Copy folder. Remove stuff? Remove folder. Depende-what? Apps that Just Work from a computer to the other? Apps in BINARY FORM? Hell has frozen over and Adobe is going to port its
I think that direct democracy is good enough, provided we have a means to transmit data to and from any point on the planet, at lightspeed and nearly zero cost, and everyone is connected. That way, we humans can get to know, and get to talk, about everything that's going on.
We would need no government, only scripts to count votes. Everything totally transparent, of course : it's run by the commmunity, directly. What would there be to hide?
Now that's funny. Without religion, why would you stone a woman ... in "adultery"? What's that?
See? Sexual morality is not exactly an evolved trait. It is the result of the "Selfish Gene" causal loop, mixed with the fact that fecundity should be better in groups with a free sexuality (opposed causal loop). So we instinctively ask our mate to practice fidelity, knowing full well s/he will want someone else eventually, while they do the exact same.
So let's take the simple route and forget the whole idea of fidelity, shall we? (And before someone talks about MSTs, they're technical problems with technical solutions that we'll find eventually.)
Yeah, right, everyone carefully reads those.
Whenever I see an "I Accept" bullshit llicense thing, I consider it null and void. Because it needlessly interrupts the flow of the process of whatever it is I'm doing. Registering on a web site? No strings attached. I DON'T accept their terms and conditions. If they kick me, well, it's their server, they can do that. I don't trust them, anyway, so my info is fake. Installing a program? Well, I interpret the "I Agree" button as meaning "I allow this package to be installed".
Erm. Do unto others. Sorry.
Oh, please stop. God does not exist. Religion is bullshit all the way through. Religion contains nothing worth of respect whatsoever. What, the "do unto toers as you would have them do to you" part? As if our evolved group-survival trait of altruism was not enough to take care of that.
And this is bad exactly how? I don't see maintaining packages as a principal activity being profitable in the long run. Disk space is cheap, compatibility is priceless.
Application vendors bundling their apps with all required libs, tagetting a minimum standard base (I haven't read the LSB so I don't know what basic functionality it covers), would be a killer app for F/OSS. I suppose Linux could evolve into a sort-of "OSX on Hackintosh with Fink or MacPorts"... Which is what I'm using, for one.
Will never happen. Websites change all the times (can't automate away even a login, unless you play cat 'n mouse with the site) and they're mostly badly coded.
I can get that, easy. Yes, by not patching. Why, to install the latest Microsoft malware? Do the test yourself someday : install Windows (2k or xp), then the necessary drivers (chipset, audio, VGA, LAN), then run a full Windows Update.
If it ever reboots, it will take an order of magnitude more time (i.e. either from "seconds" to "minutes" or from "minutes" to "hours"), and not only the first time - I'm talking after the full run. The one that will take the whole day, because you have to reboot a LOT of times.
Then, defrag your disk. If you can bear to wait the 5 minutes loading time just for MMC, and 5 more minutes "connecting to Local Disk Management Service" while you think "is LOCAL not supposed to be FAST?".
Then, you will well format and reinstall, and NOT update the thing. And you'll have learnt why people end up using Windows XP : Pirate Edition. The one that gets updated every so often, and that you'll have to track different distros of, to get the latest fixes.
It's not "the alternative to windows update", it's the only option if you want an up-to-date WinXP. Windows update breaks you PC. I've tried the method above on every hardware generation since 2001 : Athlon/P4s on VIA/Intel/AMD chipsets with ATI/nVidia cards and SDRAM/DDR/DDRII. WINDOWS UPDATE BREAKS WINDOWS XP. That is a FACT. If you update your WinXP box, it WILL become so slow as to be completely unusable.
But I'm on a hackintosh now, so if I want my computer to catch a virus, I have to ask it to run doubtful code. And to update it, I go to the forum and search for updates. That happens once in three months iirc...
Thank you very, very much. That is my new sig.
You're so right on so many levels.
I'm living in one of the world's most socialist country since the fall of USSR.
Here you can live all your life without working.
On the other side (of the Atlantic) the grass is greener, but that's because there's that much more rot.
And I can tell you, there is no way in Hell you can get a job if you don't have a car. (With gas climbing rapidly to two euros a litre..)
USian health insurance, yeah, right - like they'll pay if you ever get sick. Europe's cheap public transportation? Yeah, right. When they're not on strike, they're so inefficient that it's faster to WALK.
And I'm gonna tell you something else : when you have to pay THREE TIMES OVER in taxes what your employee really earns, then it's pretty much impossible not to outsource some work to where you'll have a non-negative return on investment.
Oh, something more : without a post-secondary degree, you're unemployed and you'll stay so. Or maybe you want to work blue-collar? Okay, you need a diploma for that. "WTF?" Yes. Even to haul cement blocks and bags. Two to three years in school to learn that. You need it, otherwise they'll get someone who has the paper. Or, rather, in Real Life : they'll hire an Turk who pays his Bulgars so little that it's even cheaper than paying black-market labor prices (i.e. norrmal minus 300% taxes markup). That makes for creative accounting... when there even is a company name...
And so forth. In the most socialist of welfare states, it's the whole fucking system that's burdened by so much taxes that profitability is not even remotely possible. Not without cheating.
What would THAT change, pray tell?
About the scholarship part, well, since you'll have to serve as a slave for half your life just to repay it, there's no WONDER they'd give up their right to vote.
The other half of the life as a slave is to pay for house mortgage, cars, and maybe lawyers as needed. Oh, and health, too, because your insurance will find a way not to pay, when you'll need it.
autorun.inf and ghost.pif, yeah, right. Who still uses windows, AND has autorun enabled?
Answer : Everyone. Even geeks give up configuring Windows to that point after one hundred reinstalls. Or they give up on Windows already... Okay, "who does not reformat new HDs before use?"
Who buys Maxtor HDs anyway? Never had one that even lasted till the end of warranty, used 8 of those in under two years. And there are not enough hours in one year to make up for the order of magnitude between announced and effective MTBF. (168*52 = way less than "tens of thousands of hours".)
Not that I excuse them for dataraping their customers. The exec that ordered that should be put to a very slow and painful death. With the Maxtor engineering team. (If there even IS one.)
LOL LOL BWAAAAHAHAHAAAAAAA Yeah, right. I'm betting it'll cost over $1000.
Tablet PC are really cool devices. Why don't everyone have one? BECAUSE THEY COST AN ARM AND LEG to Normal People. Companies and such can buy them, but people? Forget it. Or they also buy audio cables at $7000 too.
Yes. Amiga had a 32-bit preemptive multitasking OS in ROM in the 80s.