I'm sorry if you feel my comments were not helpful. I guess you can tell I feel strongly about all of this. Although I have decided to quit posting, I hope you can feel my love for the school and also, in some small way, consider that there may be more here than you realize.
Genius is learning to ask the right questions.
Keep away from people who try to belittle your ambitions. Small people always do that, but the really great make you feel that you, too, can become great. -- Mark Twain
We love you guys! You give us a reason for being. Thanks for tolerating our zeal. I hope we can integrate much of what you say to make Northface an even better place than it already is.
Threats are not the way to end a discussion you are uncomfortable with. Respond with a well formulated thought or be ignored.
Yes I work at Northface. I'm proud of that fact and highly loyal. It should tell you something that we are even watching Slashdot. Hmm...
Do you feel challenged or something? I'm not going to follow ever flame back and forth. I just felt compelled to respond to a few posts because they were inaccurate.
Minds are like parachutes - they work when they are open.
How do you know whether or not Northface cultivates problem solving or critical thinking skills? The answer is that it is pure speculation on your part. The point is that you have categorized Northface as a trade school without doing any real research on the subject, it is just speculation on your part. Who defines adequate breadth? Knowledge in a wide variety of subjects is wonderful. Why not finish the degree (BSCS) in 2 years and then while you are earning $50,000 or more per year take whatever additional classes you may be drawn to.
I am biased though, because I work at Northface. I truly feel it is a wonderful place and that most of the posters on this thread are making unqualified comments. Why don't you call and get a catalog or talk to an admissions person? You might be surprised what you find.
P.S. By your definition on multiple counts Northface is definitely a "true" University.
You've bought what the establishment has been selling for hundreds of years.
Both of these stories offer valuable lessons. I hope you find them edifying.
The first story is from Price Pritchett:
I'm sitting in a quiet room at the Millcroft Inn, a peaceful little place hidden back among the pine trees about an hour out of Toronto. It's just past noon, late July, and I'm listening to the desperate sounds of a life-or-death struggle going on a few feet away.
There is a small fly burning out the last of its short life's energies in a futile attempt to fly through the glass of the windowpane. The whining wings tell the poignant story of the fly's strategy - try harder.
But it's not working.
The frenzied effort offers no hope for survival. Ironically, the struggle is part of the trap. It is impossible for the fly to try hard enough to succeed at breaking through the glass. Nevertheless, this little insect has staked its life on reaching its goal through raw effort and determination.
This fly is doomed. It will die there on the window sill.
Across the room, ten steps away, the door is open. Ten seconds of flying time and this small creature could reach the outside world it seeks. With only a fraction of the effort now being wasted, it could be free of this self-imposed trap. The breakthrough possibility is there. It would be so easy.
Why doesn't the fly try another approach, something dramatically different? How did it get so locked into the idea that this particular route, and determined effort, offer the most promise for success? What logic is there in continuing, until death, to seek a breakthrough with "more of the same"?
No doubt this approach makes sense to the fly. Regrettably, it's an idea that will kill.
"Trying harder" isn't necessarily the solution to achieving more. It may not offer any real promise for giving what you want out of life. Sometimes, in fact, it's a big part of the problem.
If you stake your hopes for a breakthrough on trying harder than ever, you may kill your chances for success.
Moral: Be open to trying a different approach.
The second story is from Mary Manis Morrissey:
One day a man was in his backyard and noticed, on a tree limb, a butterfly emerging from it's cocoon. He watched that little being struggle and strain and press up against the walls of its prison. The butterfly was having such a difficult time, and the man wanted to help, so he sawed off the tree branch and brought it into his house. He used a pair of very fine scissors to delicately clip the cocoon and create an opening for the butterfly. Sure enough the butterfly emerged easily. Then, as the man looked on in horror, it flopped around on the table, unable to lift its wings. Within a short time the butterfly died.
The man knew he must somehow have interfered with nature, and so he went to the library to do some research on butterflies. He learned that as it emerges from its cocoon, the butterfly presses and strains, which pumps fluid from its large body into its wings. This process strengthens the wings and shrinks the body. Without that struggle, the butterfly emerges with weak wings and an unwieldy body, and cannot survive.
This is our own life process as well. We may fear the struggle and wish to remain safe little caterpillars, yet the more we open, the greater the rewards. For us it's not a single experience; we emerge over and over again, growing into a new way of being, exploring one way and then trying another until we find the right fit. No one can cut open your cocoon for you because it is through the struggle that you develop the strength to fly free.
It takes a little bit of both. Why do you find it so hard to believe that learning can occur at a faster pace that it has for the past x100 years?
The passion is to get the job done. On time, on target and under budget.
92% of complex software projects are over budget, over time or off target. This is because too many dweebs think they are innovating when it has no bearing on what the customer REALLY wants. 200 billion dollars a year is wasted this way. If you were a general wouldn't you want a soldier that could actually shoot straight and hit the target?
Sometimes spending a little time in the trenches is the best way to come up with ideas for innovation.
Why is it that good developers output 30 times as much as bad ones? I'll give you a hint: it's not because they type faster.
These are the kind of people I'm talking about:
google Grady Booch , Terry Halpin , Eve Andersson
The principle goal of education is to create men who are capable of doing new things, not simply of repeating what other generations have done -- men who are creative, inventive and discoverers.
Jean Piaget 1896-1980, Swiss Experimenters and Theorists
What if you don't want to go to college just to figure out what you want to do, but you already know what you want to do. I've made a lot of mistakes education wise over the years. I was a good student. I took AP Calculus in 10th grade and got a 5 on the test. I was programming APL, PROLOG, BASIC, and C way back in 1985. I graduated HS in 1989 and back then far fewer people were interested in CS. I didn't go to college even though I was recruited by many of the top schools (Princeton, The Air Force Academy, Berkeley, UCLA etc...). To put it bluntly, I was stupid. I thought I couldn't afford it and I didn't see the value of those loans. If I had gone I KNOW I would be further along than I am now. I would have more money etc... Part of the reason why I didn't go is because I was disillusioned with traditional schooling. HS was boring. I hated all of the little student cliques and the overall lack of focus. I took one class at UCLA and bailed because I didn't see much difference from HS, just slightly older people still mostly goofing around. I started a software of the month club and took it to $120,000 per month which was cool, but I later lost everything. It's a long story. Anyway the moral is if there had been a school like Northface I probably would have gone there. I agree that at the Doctoral level other schools are definitely better, but for someone wanting to have a secure future and a great career I see NO disadvantage in taking the fast track and being more competitive with theory nerds who have no practical experience.
Plus I can see from a business side why they are doing what they do. Education is a profitable business. Why shouldn't it be?
Oh , so you mean you go to school to learn how to think. Good point. I guess if you wanted to learn physics you might want to study under Einstein or Hawking. Hmm....
Slashdot Mirror
I'm sorry if you feel my comments were not helpful. I guess you can tell I feel strongly about all of this. Although I have decided to quit posting, I hope you can feel my love for the school and also, in some small way, consider that there may be more here than you realize. Genius is learning to ask the right questions. Keep away from people who try to belittle your ambitions. Small people always do that, but the really great make you feel that you, too, can become great. -- Mark Twain We love you guys! You give us a reason for being. Thanks for tolerating our zeal. I hope we can integrate much of what you say to make Northface an even better place than it already is.
Threats are not the way to end a discussion you are uncomfortable with. Respond with a well formulated thought or be ignored. Yes I work at Northface. I'm proud of that fact and highly loyal. It should tell you something that we are even watching Slashdot. Hmm ...
Do you feel challenged or something? I'm not going to follow ever flame back and forth. I just felt compelled to respond to a few posts because they were inaccurate.
Minds are like parachutes - they work when they are open.
How do you know whether or not Northface cultivates problem solving or critical thinking skills? The answer is that it is pure speculation on your part. The point is that you have categorized Northface as a trade school without doing any real research on the subject, it is just speculation on your part. Who defines adequate breadth? Knowledge in a wide variety of subjects is wonderful. Why not finish the degree (BSCS) in 2 years and then while you are earning $50,000 or more per year take whatever additional classes you may be drawn to. I am biased though, because I work at Northface. I truly feel it is a wonderful place and that most of the posters on this thread are making unqualified comments. Why don't you call and get a catalog or talk to an admissions person? You might be surprised what you find. P.S. By your definition on multiple counts Northface is definitely a "true" University.
You've bought what the establishment has been selling for hundreds of years. Both of these stories offer valuable lessons. I hope you find them edifying. The first story is from Price Pritchett: I'm sitting in a quiet room at the Millcroft Inn, a peaceful little place hidden back among the pine trees about an hour out of Toronto. It's just past noon, late July, and I'm listening to the desperate sounds of a life-or-death struggle going on a few feet away. There is a small fly burning out the last of its short life's energies in a futile attempt to fly through the glass of the windowpane. The whining wings tell the poignant story of the fly's strategy - try harder. But it's not working. The frenzied effort offers no hope for survival. Ironically, the struggle is part of the trap. It is impossible for the fly to try hard enough to succeed at breaking through the glass. Nevertheless, this little insect has staked its life on reaching its goal through raw effort and determination. This fly is doomed. It will die there on the window sill. Across the room, ten steps away, the door is open. Ten seconds of flying time and this small creature could reach the outside world it seeks. With only a fraction of the effort now being wasted, it could be free of this self-imposed trap. The breakthrough possibility is there. It would be so easy. Why doesn't the fly try another approach, something dramatically different? How did it get so locked into the idea that this particular route, and determined effort, offer the most promise for success? What logic is there in continuing, until death, to seek a breakthrough with "more of the same"? No doubt this approach makes sense to the fly. Regrettably, it's an idea that will kill. "Trying harder" isn't necessarily the solution to achieving more. It may not offer any real promise for giving what you want out of life. Sometimes, in fact, it's a big part of the problem. If you stake your hopes for a breakthrough on trying harder than ever, you may kill your chances for success. Moral: Be open to trying a different approach. The second story is from Mary Manis Morrissey: One day a man was in his backyard and noticed, on a tree limb, a butterfly emerging from it's cocoon. He watched that little being struggle and strain and press up against the walls of its prison. The butterfly was having such a difficult time, and the man wanted to help, so he sawed off the tree branch and brought it into his house. He used a pair of very fine scissors to delicately clip the cocoon and create an opening for the butterfly. Sure enough the butterfly emerged easily. Then, as the man looked on in horror, it flopped around on the table, unable to lift its wings. Within a short time the butterfly died. The man knew he must somehow have interfered with nature, and so he went to the library to do some research on butterflies. He learned that as it emerges from its cocoon, the butterfly presses and strains, which pumps fluid from its large body into its wings. This process strengthens the wings and shrinks the body. Without that struggle, the butterfly emerges with weak wings and an unwieldy body, and cannot survive. This is our own life process as well. We may fear the struggle and wish to remain safe little caterpillars, yet the more we open, the greater the rewards. For us it's not a single experience; we emerge over and over again, growing into a new way of being, exploring one way and then trying another until we find the right fit. No one can cut open your cocoon for you because it is through the struggle that you develop the strength to fly free. It takes a little bit of both. Why do you find it so hard to believe that learning can occur at a faster pace that it has for the past x100 years?
The passion is to get the job done. On time, on target and under budget. 92% of complex software projects are over budget, over time or off target. This is because too many dweebs think they are innovating when it has no bearing on what the customer REALLY wants. 200 billion dollars a year is wasted this way. If you were a general wouldn't you want a soldier that could actually shoot straight and hit the target? Sometimes spending a little time in the trenches is the best way to come up with ideas for innovation. Why is it that good developers output 30 times as much as bad ones? I'll give you a hint: it's not because they type faster. These are the kind of people I'm talking about: google Grady Booch , Terry Halpin , Eve Andersson
The principle goal of education is to create men who are capable of doing new things, not simply of repeating what other generations have done -- men who are creative, inventive and discoverers. Jean Piaget 1896-1980, Swiss Experimenters and Theorists What if you don't want to go to college just to figure out what you want to do, but you already know what you want to do. I've made a lot of mistakes education wise over the years. I was a good student. I took AP Calculus in 10th grade and got a 5 on the test. I was programming APL, PROLOG, BASIC, and C way back in 1985. I graduated HS in 1989 and back then far fewer people were interested in CS. I didn't go to college even though I was recruited by many of the top schools (Princeton, The Air Force Academy, Berkeley, UCLA etc...). To put it bluntly, I was stupid. I thought I couldn't afford it and I didn't see the value of those loans. If I had gone I KNOW I would be further along than I am now. I would have more money etc... Part of the reason why I didn't go is because I was disillusioned with traditional schooling. HS was boring. I hated all of the little student cliques and the overall lack of focus. I took one class at UCLA and bailed because I didn't see much difference from HS, just slightly older people still mostly goofing around. I started a software of the month club and took it to $120,000 per month which was cool, but I later lost everything. It's a long story. Anyway the moral is if there had been a school like Northface I probably would have gone there. I agree that at the Doctoral level other schools are definitely better, but for someone wanting to have a secure future and a great career I see NO disadvantage in taking the fast track and being more competitive with theory nerds who have no practical experience. Plus I can see from a business side why they are doing what they do. Education is a profitable business. Why shouldn't it be?
Oh , so you mean you go to school to learn how to think. Good point. I guess if you wanted to learn physics you might want to study under Einstein or Hawking. Hmm....
you mean half the drunken parties and half the loss of brain cells?