I think this is true, it is the inequality in the UK which causes the problems. The UK is a post-colonial, post-industrial country with a high population density and crappy weather. Let us not forget though, in their day, Portugal was a world power, but that was a long time ago. The UK, via colonialism and industrialization created a social system which was oppressive to many of members of society. We've lost, thankfully, all the colonies, we've lost all the industry. Now what is left is an anachronistic social hierarchy which breeds violence.
Guns are destroying American society so far as I can see...so I don't think so:-) The USA has two challenges over the next 20 years, health care and gun control....
Probably so. The UK has struggled with all sorts of social issues for years. But still, I feel safer in the UK than the USA, and I live in a "good" area.
The UK has not evolved its social structure very well, this is the cause of much of the trouble. The class system and the inherent oppression that brings still permeates society there.
I'm of a statistical mind - and on that basis it is true. I don't worry about my car being stolen here, but I hear about a lot more fatal violence than in the UK....
Hmm kinda. As I said in another reply the structure of violence differs between the countries. Statistically the USA is far more violent than the UK. But here you have good areas - I can leave my car/house unlocked with no problems, yet half a mile away from me if someone gets shot it is no surprise to anyone. In Europe I would be totally shocked if anyone was shot anywhere near me...so on balance, while the structure of crime here differs, it is less safe. In the end it is what you are used to. People don't get mugged all the while in Europe..like you says the media distorts a lot of things...:-)
True, and areas within states have different rates. Overall though..it's more violent here. We won't get onto the gun thing...
The structure of the violence differs between countries. I don't get worried about my car being stolen or broken into, but half a mile from me people get shot. In the UK my realtives worry about cars being burgled, but the concept of anyone being shot near them is utterly alien....
Maybe not. I live in the USA and I'm from Britain. It's MUCH safer in Britain than the USA, deal with it. Would they have caught the July bombers without the CCTV ? I doubt it.
My relatives in the UK don't care about the CCTV, the speed cameras are much more of a subject. The USA has the same big brother issues, except here it is more covert. At least in the UK you know you are being watched - in the USA who knows...
There were a bunch of machines connected in 1987, but not using the domain name system....USENET was thriving at that time but machine names and emailing was based on the x!y!x system of addressing not domains.
I started at a commerical company in 1982 called Quantime in London which had a USENET connection and we emailed all over the world. So these are not the first companies on line but the first to register with these
new fangled "domain" thingies:-). Who can forget kremvax !
Somewhat lacking in orginality as a reply, but a nice try. Why not tell people what is true ? Why not give examples on the intellectual corruption of academia ? I notice you don't reply to any of my points that use big words. Tell lies ? Ah to have such insight from a few words. But to be expected. Is that what you do - tell lies ? And I didn't say Minsky spiked my Ph.D. Did you get yours then ? Or were you not good enough to even be accepted on a Ph.D course ? Are you still a virgin ? Does it bother you ? Do you spend long hours trolling Slashdot insulting people for no good reason ? It's hard being a loser I expect (not something I know much about), rejected by others, lonely, with all that anger inside. Why not end it all and do the gene pool a favour...
Yes I know the provenance of the paper and what it contains (big word provenance for you I expect - look it up). The point is - if you had been in the field as I was you would know all this anyway. But you aren't or weren't so you don't. Second I didn't feel "screwed over" by anyone at all. Science is political, the zeitgeist was against me. Oh well. I had two other friends who after several years of working on Ph.D's didn't get them because of internal politics in their departments. It happens, you have to move on. Minsky used his power to stymie research into neural networks for quite a while. His book, Perceptrons, was held up as proof they "didn't work" which is exactly what my supervisor told me. This happens all over academia. The decoding of Maya hieroglyphics was held up for years by one powerful individual. The guy who eventually worked out the way they worked happened to be a Russian who was out of the western academic clique. If you are naive enough to assume that this sort of thing does not happen I hope you're not an academic, you're in for a big shock one day !
>It's not uncommon for people to attach smilies at the end of bitter, insulting, or whatever kind of posts, to make themselves appear the opposite.
But how can you know that ? Your assumptions say more about your flawed psyche than mine. Ever heard of projection ? I got over it years ago - particularly when someone started publishing papers about exactly what I had been working on. I moved on, did other things, climbed other mountains. To be sure at the time it was a bitter pill, but as a person I was not totally defined by a Ph.D. Yes I think on balance it would have been nice to have it for the sake of completing it, but I can honestly say I would not chose a different path if I could go back in time.
Bad things happen to people all the time. The measure of you is not that something bad happened, like my Ph.D being spiked because of academic fashion, the measure of you is how you cope with the bad stuff. I took another career path and have been very succesful. I think you obviously have some deep seated personality problems, I wish you luck with coping with them. However I think you should ponder why you feel it important to tell strangers that they are inadequate, maybe you are tlaking to yourself rather than the stranger. Good luck.
Ha ha ! I liked the biased and bitter bit:-) Yeah all of those:-).
Are you smug, self righteous, condescending or just an asshole ?
Here's some info:
"Although research on network models initially flourished along side research inspired by the CCTM, network research fell into a rapid decline in the late 1960's. Minsky (aided and abetted by Papert) is often credited with having personally precipitated the demise of research in network models, which marked the end of the first phase of connectionist research. Hecht-Nielson (1990: pp. 16-17) describes the situation (as it is presented in standard versions of the early history of connectionism) thus,
The final episode of this era was a campaign led by Marvin Minsky and Seymour Papert to discredit neural network research and divert neural network research funding to the field of "artificial intelligence"....The campaign was waged by means of personal persuasion by Minsky and Papert and their allies, as well as by limited circulation of an unpublished technical manuscript (which was later de-venomized and, after further refinement and expansion, published in 1969 by Minsky and Papert as the book Perceptrons)."
After the Ph.D demise I became a C programmer and unix expert (I started with the V7/V6 source code if you know what is), traveled the world, slept with some amazing women, and made far more money than I would have in academia....oh yeah, it worked out REAL bad:-)
Oh yeah. I guess no one here remembers his book with Symour Papert called "Perceptrons"? It was a calculated attempt (he admitted it a few years ago attempt to kill research into Neural Networks which worked. AI then thrashed around for years in a welter of bizarre programming language metaphors (Prolog anyone ?) until finally in 1986 "Parallel Distributed Processing by Rumelhart & McClelland" came out and broke the spell. Marvin wanted his grants to continue so he spiked the opposition. So when he starts pontificating about the failure of AI let's all recall he was the main cause of the lost years of AI. Thanks Marv ! He kinda spiked my Ph.D in the process...oh well:-)
5 hours sleep !!!!! 15 hours computing !!!! C'mon get a life. Travel, live, see new people, new shores. Sunrise over Rio, sunset in Zakynthos, snorkel off the Great Barrier reef, feel the rain in Ireland. - hey ever tried a relationship with a human being ? Or even the cat ?
Because one day someone might say you can't and these moments will never be yours....
UM.I live in Cincinnati and had this service from Cinergy for months. And it works *really* well. I only dropped it because the cable co gave me a better deal for cable/internet et al.
It's a reality.
Yeah I know:-), I was being kind to the OP. If you make glass beads you MUST wear Didymium goggles otherwise the IR buggers up your eyes over time. Same if you work with molten Platinum....But as you say the goggles protect against the thermal effects, which the eyes don't like...
My point is that they may know something we don't. Now it may, only may, be that when you are 1 metre away from the radiation source the most susceptible part of the body is the cornea, and hence the goggles. Are we sure that isn't the case ? I am not by any means saying that the "solution" to radiation protection are goggles. That is obviously absurd. My point is that they may know something we don't....
True, of course there is the inverse square law to consider, cell phones are very near to our heads. We don't *really* know what level/wavelength of radiation causes what by the sound of it The Romans thought lead was a great material for water pipes to be made of....And it could be that the Russians did some research after all.....I think it is seriously wrong and a bit xenophobic to dismiss anything about Russia in this context because of the numerous other ills that society had and has. "Four legs good, two legs bad" isn't a good idea....
Gee seems to be some real rampant anti-Soviet feelings here. Of course Russia has severe problems with it's record. But then again the USA has a WORSE infant mortality rate than a lot of countries - maybe even Cuba (and we are talking significantly different). Does that mean we should discount our medical science ? Maybe this was one area they got it right and we didn't. I know this is going to be a big shock but the USA/West is NOT the fount of all wisdom.
aww c'mon:-)
If you work with molten glass you wear goggles (didymium) to cut down the IR, same for several industries. Depends in the wavelength you want to stop...
Believe it or not (and like it or not) Russian science was and is more advanced in some realms than western science. Like I said, the Russians still know a lot we don't...
Russia has long had LOWER emission requirements than Western countries.
Russian scientists are not stupid. See:
http://www.gallawa.com/microtech/Ch3.html
Quote from this site:
"Rather than concentrating on the effects of high-intensity levels, 'Soviet scientists were focusing their efforts on the lesser-known effects of prolonged or repeated exposure to low levels of microwaves. Their research, which began quite some time before that of their Western counterparts, has yielded some rather unsettling reports. Soviet studies show that long-term exposure to low levels of microwave energy could result in unpleasant effects that are not attributable to over-heating (or thermal effect) alone. These effects could be seen at exposure levels at and below 10mw/cm2, which is the occupational safety standard in the U.S.
The USSR, and other European countries, has thus set their own strict guidelines for microwave safety, concluding that Western safety standards are simply not safe. For example, Russian workers are required to wear protective goggles any time they are temporarily exposed to a microwave radiation level of 1mw/cm2, a level routinely allowed to leak (although in recent years, rarely does) from U.S. microwave ovens."
Personally I think the Russians know a lot we don't....
Slashdot Mirror
I think this is true, it is the inequality in the UK which causes the problems. The UK is a post-colonial, post-industrial country with a high population density and crappy weather. Let us not forget though, in their day, Portugal was a world power, but that was a long time ago. The UK, via colonialism and industrialization created a social system which was oppressive to many of members of society. We've lost, thankfully, all the colonies, we've lost all the industry. Now what is left is an anachronistic social hierarchy which breeds violence.
Guns are destroying American society so far as I can see...so I don't think so :-) The USA has two challenges over the next 20 years, health care and gun control....
Probably so. The UK has struggled with all sorts of social issues for years. But still, I feel safer in the UK than the USA, and I live in a "good" area. The UK has not evolved its social structure very well, this is the cause of much of the trouble. The class system and the inherent oppression that brings still permeates society there.
I'm of a statistical mind - and on that basis it is true. I don't worry about my car being stolen here, but I hear about a lot more fatal violence than in the UK....
Maybe so - I'm not an expert on what happened. I recall the bus exploded outside the bank I used to use when I live in London :-(
Hmm kinda. As I said in another reply the structure of violence differs between the countries. Statistically the USA is far more violent than the UK. But here you have good areas - I can leave my car/house unlocked with no problems, yet half a mile away from me if someone gets shot it is no surprise to anyone. In Europe I would be totally shocked if anyone was shot anywhere near me...so on balance, while the structure of crime here differs, it is less safe. In the end it is what you are used to. People don't get mugged all the while in Europe..like you says the media distorts a lot of things...:-)
True, and areas within states have different rates. Overall though..it's more violent here. We won't get onto the gun thing... The structure of the violence differs between countries. I don't get worried about my car being stolen or broken into, but half a mile from me people get shot. In the UK my realtives worry about cars being burgled, but the concept of anyone being shot near them is utterly alien....
Maybe not. I live in the USA and I'm from Britain. It's MUCH safer in Britain than the USA, deal with it. Would they have caught the July bombers without the CCTV ? I doubt it. My relatives in the UK don't care about the CCTV, the speed cameras are much more of a subject. The USA has the same big brother issues, except here it is more covert. At least in the UK you know you are being watched - in the USA who knows...
There were a bunch of machines connected in 1987, but not using the domain name system....USENET was thriving at that time but machine names and emailing was based on the x!y!x system of addressing not domains. I started at a commerical company in 1982 called Quantime in London which had a USENET connection and we emailed all over the world. So these are not the first companies on line but the first to register with these new fangled "domain" thingies :-). Who can forget kremvax !
Somewhat lacking in orginality as a reply, but a nice try. Why not tell people what is true ? Why not give examples on the intellectual corruption of academia ? I notice you don't reply to any of my points that use big words. Tell lies ? Ah to have such insight from a few words. But to be expected. Is that what you do - tell lies ? And I didn't say Minsky spiked my Ph.D. Did you get yours then ? Or were you not good enough to even be accepted on a Ph.D course ? Are you still a virgin ? Does it bother you ? Do you spend long hours trolling Slashdot insulting people for no good reason ? It's hard being a loser I expect (not something I know much about), rejected by others, lonely, with all that anger inside. Why not end it all and do the gene pool a favour...
Yes I know the provenance of the paper and what it contains (big word provenance for you I expect - look it up). The point is - if you had been in the field as I was you would know all this anyway. But you aren't or weren't so you don't. Second I didn't feel "screwed over" by anyone at all. Science is political, the zeitgeist was against me. Oh well. I had two other friends who after several years of working on Ph.D's didn't get them because of internal politics in their departments. It happens, you have to move on. Minsky used his power to stymie research into neural networks for quite a while. His book, Perceptrons, was held up as proof they "didn't work" which is exactly what my supervisor told me. This happens all over academia. The decoding of Maya hieroglyphics was held up for years by one powerful individual. The guy who eventually worked out the way they worked happened to be a Russian who was out of the western academic clique. If you are naive enough to assume that this sort of thing does not happen I hope you're not an academic, you're in for a big shock one day ! >It's not uncommon for people to attach smilies at the end of bitter, insulting, or whatever kind of posts, to make themselves appear the opposite. But how can you know that ? Your assumptions say more about your flawed psyche than mine. Ever heard of projection ? I got over it years ago - particularly when someone started publishing papers about exactly what I had been working on. I moved on, did other things, climbed other mountains. To be sure at the time it was a bitter pill, but as a person I was not totally defined by a Ph.D. Yes I think on balance it would have been nice to have it for the sake of completing it, but I can honestly say I would not chose a different path if I could go back in time. Bad things happen to people all the time. The measure of you is not that something bad happened, like my Ph.D being spiked because of academic fashion, the measure of you is how you cope with the bad stuff. I took another career path and have been very succesful. I think you obviously have some deep seated personality problems, I wish you luck with coping with them. However I think you should ponder why you feel it important to tell strangers that they are inadequate, maybe you are tlaking to yourself rather than the stranger. Good luck.
Wow - no jealousy there :-)
Ha ha ! I liked the biased and bitter bit :-) Yeah all of those :-).
Are you smug, self righteous, condescending or just an asshole ?
Here's some info:
"Although research on network models initially flourished along side research inspired by the CCTM, network research fell into a rapid decline in the late 1960's. Minsky (aided and abetted by Papert) is often credited with having personally precipitated the demise of research in network models, which marked the end of the first phase of connectionist research. Hecht-Nielson (1990: pp. 16-17) describes the situation (as it is presented in standard versions of the early history of connectionism) thus,
The final episode of this era was a campaign led by Marvin Minsky and Seymour Papert to discredit neural network research and divert neural network research funding to the field of "artificial intelligence"....The campaign was waged by means of personal persuasion by Minsky and Papert and their allies, as well as by limited circulation of an unpublished technical manuscript (which was later de-venomized and, after further refinement and expansion, published in 1969 by Minsky and Papert as the book Perceptrons)."
After the Ph.D demise I became a C programmer and unix expert (I started with the V7/V6 source code if you know what is), traveled the world, slept with some amazing women, and made far more money than I would have in academia....oh yeah, it worked out REAL bad :-)
Oh yeah. I guess no one here remembers his book with Symour Papert called "Perceptrons"? It was a calculated attempt (he admitted it a few years ago attempt to kill research into Neural Networks which worked. AI then thrashed around for years in a welter of bizarre programming language metaphors (Prolog anyone ?) until finally in 1986 "Parallel Distributed Processing by Rumelhart & McClelland" came out and broke the spell. Marvin wanted his grants to continue so he spiked the opposition. So when he starts pontificating about the failure of AI let's all recall he was the main cause of the lost years of AI. Thanks Marv ! He kinda spiked my Ph.D in the process...oh well :-)
5 hours sleep !!!!! 15 hours computing !!!! C'mon get a life. Travel, live, see new people, new shores. Sunrise over Rio, sunset in Zakynthos, snorkel off the Great Barrier reef, feel the rain in Ireland. - hey ever tried a relationship with a human being ? Or even the cat ?
Because one day someone might say you can't and these moments will never be yours....
UM.I live in Cincinnati and had this service from Cinergy for months. And it works *really* well. I only dropped it because the cable co gave me a better deal for cable/internet et al. It's a reality.
sohow come you can see to type if they aren't working....:-)
Yeah I know :-), I was being kind to the OP. If you make glass beads you MUST wear Didymium goggles otherwise the IR buggers up your eyes over time. Same if you work with molten Platinum....But as you say the goggles protect against the thermal effects, which the eyes don't like...
My point is that they may know something we don't. Now it may, only may, be that when you are 1 metre away from the radiation source the most susceptible part of the body is the cornea, and hence the goggles. Are we sure that isn't the case ? I am not by any means saying that the "solution" to radiation protection are goggles. That is obviously absurd. My point is that they may know something we don't....
True, of course there is the inverse square law to consider, cell phones are very near to our heads. We don't *really* know what level/wavelength of radiation causes what by the sound of it The Romans thought lead was a great material for water pipes to be made of....And it could be that the Russians did some research after all.....I think it is seriously wrong and a bit xenophobic to dismiss anything about Russia in this context because of the numerous other ills that society had and has. "Four legs good, two legs bad" isn't a good idea....
Gee seems to be some real rampant anti-Soviet feelings here. Of course Russia has severe problems with it's record. But then again the USA has a WORSE infant mortality rate than a lot of countries - maybe even Cuba (and we are talking significantly different). Does that mean we should discount our medical science ? Maybe this was one area they got it right and we didn't. I know this is going to be a big shock but the USA/West is NOT the fount of all wisdom.
sounds likely to me...:-)
aww c'mon :-)
If you work with molten glass you wear goggles (didymium) to cut down the IR, same for several industries. Depends in the wavelength you want to stop...
Believe it or not (and like it or not) Russian science was and is more advanced in some realms than western science. Like I said, the Russians still know a lot we don't...
:-) but as John Stuart Mill said: "correlation is not causation"...
Russia has long had LOWER emission requirements than Western countries. Russian scientists are not stupid. See: http://www.gallawa.com/microtech/Ch3.html Quote from this site: "Rather than concentrating on the effects of high-intensity levels, 'Soviet scientists were focusing their efforts on the lesser-known effects of prolonged or repeated exposure to low levels of microwaves. Their research, which began quite some time before that of their Western counterparts, has yielded some rather unsettling reports. Soviet studies show that long-term exposure to low levels of microwave energy could result in unpleasant effects that are not attributable to over-heating (or thermal effect) alone. These effects could be seen at exposure levels at and below 10mw/cm2, which is the occupational safety standard in the U.S. The USSR, and other European countries, has thus set their own strict guidelines for microwave safety, concluding that Western safety standards are simply not safe. For example, Russian workers are required to wear protective goggles any time they are temporarily exposed to a microwave radiation level of 1mw/cm2, a level routinely allowed to leak (although in recent years, rarely does) from U.S. microwave ovens." Personally I think the Russians know a lot we don't....